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Archive through September 10, 2004

 

New member
Username: Alexfromholland

Post Number: 6
Registered: Aug-04
Some people have a serious problem concerning the new A/V receiver line from NAD like the T743, T753 and T763. There is an abnormal amount of white noise (hiss) which is audible through the speakers and/or headphones. NAD does not consider this to be a problem, as they send units back with the comment 'Adjusted internal wiring', and still the hiss is there.

Also sending e-mails to NAD did not result in a solution for this problem.
I already got several reactions of people experiencing the same problem, but what could we do to solve this issue ?
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 577
Registered: Feb-04
Here's a list of other NAD problem threads from this summer:

NAD to be or not to be thread:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/18212.html

NAD to buy or not to buy thread:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/17549.html

Dead channels on T753, T752, T763:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/84481.html
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/77249.html
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/21221.html
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/17631.html

T773 humm:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/34510.html

T763, T753, T743 humm:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/69142.html
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/9750.html
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/69374.html

Blank display on T753:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/69489.html
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/38261.html

T7xx popping noises when detecting digital signal:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/42351.html
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/17388.html

Digital connection cutting first second of CD's:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/42607.html
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/27684.html

T743 DTS problem:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/46746.html

Volume decrease on T761, T763:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/76640.html

Noise on T761:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/42456.html

Low digital signal on T762:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/51495.html

Dead T762:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/38048.html

T752 reseting:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/51587.html

Non-working T752:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/30987.html

Flaky digital inputs on T742:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/17447.html

NADs with no problems threads:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/61361.html
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/42699.html
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/38239.html
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/38482.html

 

Bronze Member
Username: Persvako

North Europe

Post Number: 32
Registered: Jun-04
It seems there's nothing NAD can do for that problem. To me it's a BIG problem, especially with headphones.

It looks like NAD has failed with their new generation A/V receivers! It's like a F1 car that can't pass a crash test, or an athletic using doping.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Awedio

Montreal, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 17
Registered: Jul-04
what speakers do u have? im experiencing the same problem, but im wondering if i hear it more on my klipsch. anyways, one thing i havent tried yet is the power. ill be getting a monster power center soon, and hopefully that makes a difference. i dont really want to return my nad...not sure what i would get instead.

ian
 

Bronze Member
Username: Persvako

North Europe

Post Number: 33
Registered: Jun-04
What is that monster??? It's not a question of power though...
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lesterlyles

Post Number: 33
Registered: Jul-04
Pervasko, some of the posts indicated that they had humming and hissing problems and said it had to do with powerdistribution. Monster Cable makes a Power Bar that distributes power properly among all components. This could help.
 

New member
Username: Alexfromholland

Post Number: 7
Registered: Aug-04
Ian,

I have a set of Celestion F30s, a center Celestion C15 and two Celestion F10s as surround. I noticed that the hissing is almost not audible from the surround speakers. The main speakers (front) have a sensivity of 90dB/w as does the center speaker. The surround speakers have a sensivity of 88dB/w.

 

New member
Username: Alexfromholland

Post Number: 8
Registered: Aug-04
Guys,

I still haven't got an answer to my question if the NAD hiss issue is only a problem of the T7X3 series ? Doe anyone know ?
I have also read a couple of reviews (especially a german one from audio.de (june 2004)) and none of them was mentioning the hiss issue !! Did they test with the speakers attached ?


Alex
 

Bronze Member
Username: Persvako

North Europe

Post Number: 34
Registered: Jun-04
I've read somewhere that 7X2 is hiss-free.
 

New member
Username: Ilari72

Post Number: 10
Registered: Apr-04
For new NAD owners/ readers: This discussion started at thread: Real weight of NAD T743?
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/69142.html
I really hope we get new answers from NAD/ our dealers soon?? Hiss/ hum with headphones is so annoying!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Xvoid

Post Number: 13
Registered: Jul-04
I recently purchased a NAD with v2.03 firmware- so it's completely up to date.

As I have said before, I get the hiss thing but it doesn't bother me much but the thing that *does* concern me is the whole digital drop out thing, which has been discussed before in this forum.

Occassionally I miss the first 1/2 second of a CD via the Optical Digital input. Sometimes this happens on each track of a particular CD. I think it most likely has something to do with short gaps at the beginning of a CD track. This problem is the one thing about the NAD that concerns me and causes anxiety as it really stuffs up my music listening big time.

The sound from the NAD is superb but I think they have still got to play a bit of catchup in the HT arena in some areas.

The current management of NAD has done a lot to bring their stuff into the HT age but man, you think they'd at least test their prototypes properly before sending them to manufacturing.

I'm hoping they fix the problem once and for all and provide a hardware upgrade, if indeed it is the type of DACs or DSPs they use and can't be fixed via firmware upgrade.
 

New member
Username: Alexfromholland

Post Number: 9
Registered: Aug-04
Matthew,

I have read about the digital drop out problem, for me this is not a big deal, as it does not occur when playing DVD's. I bought a used NAD C541 cd player an connected it by using the analog output. The DAC's of the C541 are even better than the ones in the T743. I don't know what CD players you're using, but if it is a decent player (H/K, Marantz, Denon, NAD) then you're probably better off using the analog output anyway.

Alex
 

Bronze Member
Username: Persvako

North Europe

Post Number: 35
Registered: Jun-04
Yes Mathew W, it's also a big mistake you are talking about. I haven't experienced that because like Me, I have also a NAD CD-player - C 541i. If your CD/DVD-player is cheap, then it's better to use DA-converter in amplifier.

Somehow I'm sure that this isn't anything related to firmware. I believe this is very difficult, maybe impossible to fix. Maybe the component's create this terrible noise, that comes out as a hiss. So, because they have designed these new amplifiers like they are now, it can be really difficult to understand what is making that noise, and more difficult to eliminate that without completely changing the desing.

This should have been detected, when they were making the first builds of these amplifiers... But hey, it's made in China, not in the Europe. In the Europe this fault would have been detected for sure...
 

New member
Username: Alexfromholland

Post Number: 10
Registered: Aug-04
Persvako,

I totally agree with you. It's a terrible mistake by NAD to bring such models on the market. But I still am wondering why the hissing is introduced in their new T7X3 receivers and not in previous models (there is a saying: do not change a winning team!). I am also curious if the T773 als experiences this hissing ? (the t773 uses a torridial (or whatever they call it) transformer).

That they produce stuff in China doesn't bother me, as long as it works properly. Anyways most of HT stuff is made over there (headphones, loudspeakers, TV's, well everything actually)

I send an e-mail to NAD that I was disappointed customer... Let's see what happens...
 

Bronze Member
Username: Persvako

North Europe

Post Number: 36
Registered: Jun-04
Me,

You're right. I can't blame China (nor Canada). Well actually it was more a joke than a serious one.

T 763 uses also a toroidial transformer, so it's not a power consumption question, I think. I've read somewhere here that somebody claimed his 773 also experiencing this problem.

If I'd listen only stereo music from CD (using analog connection) about 3 meters distance from the speakers, I wouldn't complain so much. But because the distance isn't that much, and I like to listen a lot with headphones too and also with surround speakers, that's why I complain.

I hope NAD'll answer you, and will give some other info than just "Go to complain to your retailer about this!"

persvako
 

Bronze Member
Username: Lesterlyles

Post Number: 34
Registered: Jul-04
From all the posts, the problems seem to be more w.th the 743 and 753
 

New member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-04
Hi, I work for a dealer in the UK and we sell the NADs. We have not noticed any hiss problems with the T7x3 models.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Alexfromholland

Post Number: 11
Registered: Aug-04
Frank,

How do you mean that you did not notice any hiss problems ? Do you mean that nobody has returned their T743's yet ? Or did you test it yourself (just plug-in headphones) ?

My dealer also said that he did not notice any hiss problem, but he meant that nobody has sent it in for repair (yet). But how can you send it in for repair if it's there when you buy it ? You then just trade it in for a different brand like Marantz, H/K or Cambridge Audio. I wonder how many NAD's are swapped for a different brand.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Gatt767

Malta

Post Number: 59
Registered: Feb-04
I have a T762 with no hiss at all, others said that they were hearing a hiss! It seems that this hiss thing doesn't always show up! I think the cure for this is good power filters. Can someone with this hiss prob, tell his supplier to lend him a power filter and check for any changes!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Persvako

North Europe

Post Number: 37
Registered: Jun-04
Yep, you've got a 762, not 763.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jonmoon

Post Number: 81
Registered: Dec-03
I have a T763 with no hiss.
 

Daniel Benatar
Unregistered guest
do you hear the hiss noise during the cd play or just when you turn up the volume without playing cd?

Thanks, Daniel
 

New member
Username: Agimat

Canada

Post Number: 8
Registered: Aug-04
I just came from my dealer and informed them of the hiss issue on my T743.I think this series of NAD is very sensitive to power distribution. We tested a 743 and we heard the hiss as we turn up the volume and all inputs were off.We changed the source and it was louder on video 6.Next we went to the other room and tried the NAD integrated C572 and turn up the volume and there was a hiss like the 743.To convince me, he brought me to the next room again and tried the DENON 3805 and as he turned up the volume the hiss was much worst than the 743. He said they have a total of 7 rooms of HT equiptment plus 4 apartment rooms upstairs which they are really loaded. So I was convinced that maybe this is a power issue but my question to myself is how come in my basement there is a hiss on my 743 but I don't have too much load, live in a two bed room town house. Why don't we try to use some power line filter and let us see what will happen. Anybody knows some brand and where to purchase?
 

Daniel Benatar
Unregistered guest
did you tried it with cd or without any connection?

Thanks, Daniel
 

Bronze Member
Username: Alexfromholland

Post Number: 12
Registered: Aug-04
Guys,

Again, the hiss we are talking about is a constant hiss starting at -73dB to appr. -10dB (and then the hiss increases of course). The hiss is always there, even with nothing attached to the receiver (only AC power). When MUTE is on, the hiss disappears. When you use a digital source, the hiss also disappears when no digital input is available, resulting in the same as MUTE.

Question to Larz: what did you exactly test, because you are referring to 3 different units (NAD T743, C572, DENON 3805) ??
 

New member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 4
Registered: Sep-04
Hello Alex

AFAIK we haven't had any 7x3's back for repair at all. We also haven't had customers complaining of hiss so no replacements either that I know of.

However, most customers and certainly us in the shop use these receivers purely with digital sources. Your last note indicates there is no hiss in this situation. If I get a chance I'll try a 7x3 set to analogue input on Saturday (speakers attached of course :-) ). However, Saturdays can be busy so forgive me if I don't get a chance...(I've been failing to get around to playing with some high end kit for the last two weeks!)

Incidentally, when you say the hiss is -73 to -10db, where are you measuring this from? After all, if the hiss is inaudible from the listening position in the room, then the question becomes academic surely? After all, there's quite a few higher end amps which haven't got that low a noise floor but have excellent attributes anyway. However, if the hiss is audible (and this depends to a huge extent on how efficient your speakers are), then it becomes an issue.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 587
Registered: Feb-04
My T743 hisses with every digital and analog input, and the hiss is much stronger than with my old Sony DE635 so I think it's unacceptable. The -74dB to -10dB is from the main volume setting of the receiver.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Alexfromholland

Post Number: 13
Registered: Aug-04
Frank,

You could test the hiss-issue with only headphones attached to a T743. Select an analog input (like CD or EXTERNAL 5.1). You will notice the difference if you press MUTE.

Like you already mentioned, the hissing depends largely on the efficiency of your speakers. I use Celestion F30 speakers (90dB), which is relatively efficient, and the hiss is very good audible from a distance to appr. 5 meters.

If you have time, please test the T743 with only headphones connected and let us know what you think.

Alex
 

Silver Member
Username: Smitty

Canada

Post Number: 120
Registered: Dec-03
Has anyone tried testing the hiss issue just by using the test tones? This should eliminate the source as a potential problem. I have a T742 and I do get hissing starting at about -5dB and getting louder with the volume from that point. It bugs me, but like others it is not noticable at my normal listening levels - even at loud listening levels such as 0dB the sound is so loud it's not noticable either. It's too bad it's there but given the choice I'd rather have quality sound than a completely hiss-free receiver - finding both at this price range (C$650/US$400) is pretty tough. Now if I had shelled out C$2000 for a T773 then I'd be looking at other options. At this point if I was considering a new T743 or T753 I'd probably hold out for the Outlaw 1070 instead. Other perhaps pertinent information:
- My speakers are rated at 95dB efficiency.
- I have all my audio components on their own 15amp circuit.
- I use a voltage regulator
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 588
Registered: Feb-04
The hiss is there with just test tones playing.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Persvako

North Europe

Post Number: 38
Registered: Jun-04
So far there's nobody that owns 7x3 hiss-free unit?

If there is somebody with hiss-free unit, please reply this thread. Remember to connect headphones first to your amplifier and listen possible hiss with that, before you say anything!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Xvoid

Post Number: 14
Registered: Jul-04
On a side note, for those using their computer (via RS-232) to control the T763 or T773 using firmware 2.03, a new version of the PC Software will be available soon on the NAD website. I emailed NAD and they told me. Not all features are accessable on the current PC Software using the 2.03 firmware.

Still waiting on an updated manual, so I can find out what the extra bits in 2.03 are. Like the "Enhanced Bass" setting in the speaker setup page. We could guess what this means but I'd like to know the exact details.

My previous receiver was a Sony STRDB-930 and I was truely surprised at the amount of hiss coming from the T763. I'd say it is roughly about twice as loud as the Sony but may also be more noticeable because it is a brighter hiss as well. But the receivers can't really be compared.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jonmoon

Post Number: 82
Registered: Dec-03
persvako, What? Can't you read? I said I owned a NAD T763 with no hiss. Landroval did an incredible job of posting all of the last hissy fit threads including threads where the NAD was defended. I have seen this same thread too many times to get excited about it. But apparently you only want to read lines that support what you think is true.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Persvako

North Europe

Post Number: 39
Registered: Jun-04
"I have a T763 with no hiss."

Dear Jonathan,

I could also ask you that can't you read, but I won't. Because you are here, so propably you can read, or otherwise your mother or someone else is reading and writing for you. ;)

Anyway, that sentence you said earlier doesn't tell me anything. It's like saying "My car is the best". You have to give some explanation. Describe your tests, what have you done to come into this conclusion. First, have you tried your amp with headphones?

And I'm sorry, but I don't have time to read hundreds of posts, I have also another live. So forgive me for my repetition. And I think this thread is very good. Because this BIG! problem needs an explicit thread that is possessed only for this oddity.

Cheers,
persvako
 

New member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 5
Registered: Sep-04
Alex

Will do my best to test it on Saturday. 90db speakers are fairly efficient. We have the B&W 603s in the shop and they are 90db efficient too. If I get a chance I'll try them as well as headphones and compare to other processors. If I get a chance! :-)

Smitty, my speakers are 94.5db (Audio Note AN-E) so I know where you're coming from. I used to own a Naim 82/hicap/250 amp (£5000 worth) and it hissed like mad through my speakers! When the music was on it was sublime of course, but I had to leave it on mute when I wasn't using it (very rare! :-) ).

Robert - Maltese eh? Me too. Are there any audiophile clubs etc down there nowadays? I've lived in the UK for 22 years, so I don't know if there is one - it'd be cool to be able to contribute from an external perspective.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jonmoon

Post Number: 83
Registered: Dec-03
Persvako, you were contributing to a thread that is about NAD receivers and dealing with hiss. You responded to posters who said they noticed hiss and ignored my posting that said there was no hiss. I'm sorry if that statement doesn't give you as much information as a statement that there is hiss does. I don't know if you are just trying to see what you want to see.

I won't bring your mother into the conversation and I would appreciate if you don't mention mine.

I have a question for you. Have you read the threads that Landroval linked? There is quite a bit of information there.

Finally, yes I have connected headphones. I have also put my ear up to my speakers. I can discern no hiss. Also, I'm not sure what the point is of trying to find hiss that you can't even discern while listening. I have visited many other sites and I never see anyone asking Denon, Yamaha, PE or other readers to put their ears to the speakers or listen in headphones to attempt to find hiss that they otherwise are unaware of.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Persvako

North Europe

Post Number: 40
Registered: Jun-04
Sorry I dindn't respond to you, Jonathan, but actually I didn't put my eye on it. It was such a short text, and there were many posters after you, who had something more to say. They also didn't reply to you. But they had much to say, so I forgot you. Don't take this world so seriously Jonathan. Enjoy your life! Put some smile on your face man! :-)

But I don't get your point. You try to understate this hiss. For me it's a BIG problem, and as you can see, for many others too. It's not anything that we try to find hiss. The hiss is there, and we try to find causes and solutions for that. It might also be possible that somebody doesn't find this hiss at first. But with headphones it's VERY easy to find. I found that hiss in the first second when I had turned my amp on. It's at least 10 times louder than in my A/V Sony. With sony I hear the hiss only when I put my ear to the speaker, like you said, but with NAD it's hearable about 10 feet distance.

Of course nobody asks Denon people to put their ears to the speaker if there's not hiss problem in the units! If there is a problem, what ever it is, then I think it's acceptable to ask people to do silly things like listening headphones...

I don't get why you don't have this hiss problem. But it's good that you said it. This is what I wanna also do, to find out if there are better working units in the market too. Like I said before if there is somebody having a hiss-free unit, please reply this thread.

Yes, landroval has done a great job. I don't underrate him. And I have read most of those NAD threads 2-3 months ago. Now I don't have time. It takes many hours, maybe even days, to finish all of them. That's all for now.
 

New member
Username: Agimat

Canada

Post Number: 10
Registered: Aug-04
Me,

I tested the 743 on the first room, C372 on the second room and the Denon on the third room.

Daniel,

No input and only the power was on.

To update you guys I came back to my dealer this morning for the second time though I was convinced yesterday that it was a sort of power issue. The sales rep immediately called NAD ( Lenbrook) since our location is only 10 kms from them. As per NAD they are already aware of this issue and the solution is just a software upgrade and they are releasing a batch of receivers soon with updated software. I hope this helps.
 

Anonymous100
Unregistered guest
Guys enough with the Hiss, Some prior Denon units had muted amplifier stages, when the amp does not see any signal it does not amplify...therefore no hiss. Others don't, I returned an old Sony years ago that didn't have muted circutry...and guess what, it hissed. I've listen to many amplifiers lately and guess what most of them Hiss if there are no signal or sources selected, and yes this hiss is progressive as you turn the volume dial up, test it for yourselves...you'll see that most amps will hiss, yes it's annoying but not really audible if you are listening to a source at moderate levels (unless the speaker is 1 foot away from your ears) :-)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Persvako

North Europe

Post Number: 42
Registered: Jun-04
I'm not sure, but I think we are talking here about much greater hiss levels.. Of course every amp, that has some components inside making noise, hisses. I've heard many amps, none of them have hissed like this.

larz, if the new firmware would reduce hiss, all of us'd be greatful and relieved. But I just can't believe it would change something. I hope it will though! :-)
 

Unregistered guest
A100 - your comment is not relevant to the ongoing issue which is reported hiss levels beyond acceptable levels. This is a matter of degree and the degree of reported dissatisfaction has been repeatedly stated by more NAD owners than anybody cares to count.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Alexfromholland

Post Number: 14
Registered: Aug-04
Dear Hissers and Nonhissers,

A 799 euro device should not produce an abnormal amount of hissing. Yeah, if a connect my old wharfedales (rated sensitivity 86dB), I would not hear it. But hey, I upgraded to my speakers to relatively sensitive ones. Why ? Because I wanted more sound from less watts. Why Celestion ? Because I think they sound great and they cost as much as Kef does.

So, I got a Celestion F30AV set, which sounds much better than my Wharfedales 505.2 from 1985.
I had a Philips receiver, which was rated 60WPC.

At that time I was looking for a new receiver to replace my Philips receiver, because I wanted better sound for a reasonable price. The only constraint I have is that the depth of the receiver should be maximum 40 cm (15,7").

So I came up with the following models:
- Onkyo 501E
- Marantz SR4400
- Yamaha v540
- NAD T752, T742 and T743

I choose NAD, despite it is twice the price of a Marantz. Why ? Because they (salesmen) claim it was the best in sound quality (and that's the only thing that really counts). And they (salesmen)were right. NAD sounds great and it fitted in my rack. But.... when I first switched it on...ssssssssssss..... coming from all speakers, especially from the front and center speakers. Immediattely, I called the hifishop where I bought my new gear. They (salesmen) said that it was normal behaviour, and you will find that with any 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 receiver.

I decided to see whether it would really bug me, so I gave it a rest for a couple of weeks. On the internet I saw that more people were having similar problems. I contacted NAD through email and they replied that the hissing is NOT normal and that NAD is not aware of any hissing in their A/V receivers. So I sent the unit back to NAD and got a Marantz SR4400 as a loan device (was also on my shortlist). I lasted 2 months in order to get my NAD t743 back. Still hissing. No difference whatsoever...

Then I started this thread. Only to figure out a way to get rid off this freakin' ssssssssssssss sound. If I listened in the shop before I bought it, I wouldn't be sure that I would go for NAD, but I would definitively go for Cambridge Audio. The only problem is that nobody seems to sell CA in the Netherlands (that's where I live, but you probably figured that out already).

Conclusion: always listen before you buy!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ilari72

Post Number: 11
Registered: Apr-04
I did also some tests last night with my T743.
I unplugged everything else but the speakers (only 2 front speakers and center speaker). The hiss is there. Using headphones the hum/hiss is terrible, I mean TERRIBLE! I did my tests in 3 different rooms and i even shutdown refrigerator/freezer unit etc.
When watching dvd's (dd), i can hear hiss 2,5 meters from speakers (my listening position), volume level -10db.
Removing main in-pre out jumpers unit is hiss free ;)
I know, every receiver hiss a little but not like my T743. Hiss is way too loud and its not normal. I will take my unit back if nad cant fix it.
At moment im waiting answers from my dealer.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 590
Registered: Feb-04
My current speakers have a rated sensitivity of 87dB and I did notice the hiss the first second I put on my T743, so I would not underestimate the problem.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 591
Registered: Feb-04
It would be interesting if someone could try a NAD receiver with different pre- and power-amps to find out which part of the device is causing the hissing.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Persvako

North Europe

Post Number: 43
Registered: Jun-04
Me and Ilari72, damn you, you stole my comments! That was what I definitely would like to say those who claim this hissing to be normal.

In my theory every NAD unit is suffering from this hissing. But, Jonathan said he has a hiss-free unit. That changes something. Why he doesn't discern this problem? Is there a certain batch of NAD's that are built differently, or what can cause this? The easiest way is question that for the time being, unless more people reports here the same...
 

New member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 8
Registered: Sep-04
Wow, guys, I can almost definitely say our NADs don't hiss that much, but now I will really try to check this out tomorrow!

For those who were asking, hiss is usually a factor of the preamp stage, not the power amp stage. Strange but true.

Alex, the Celestions are a bit more sensitive than most speakers, but not so much more sensitive that you would hear hiss at 10 feet with the volume set at ordinary listening level. Of course, if you turn up the volume all the way, then any amp will hiss at you.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Alexfromholland

Post Number: 15
Registered: Aug-04
Frank,

When you remove the pre-out clamps on the back (and hence disabling the pre-amp section), the hissing is gone. So I agree with you: it is probable the preamp stage. Perhaps you could try the T743 with a different preamp (t163 maybe ?).

Alex
 

New member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 9
Registered: Sep-04
Alex

By doing this you've confirmed it. I don't have a T163 in the shop, but I'll see what I can do.

Of course, although I agree that what you're saying sounds like over-the-top hiss, this is not a reflection of the amp's actual sound quality. NAD amps make a very believable natural soundstage with no obvious emphasis on any part of the frequency spectrum. Denons tend to be big in the bass, for example. To me, that sounds 'obvious' and so it sounds artificial. The NAD sounds more natural, and so less artificial. This is why dealers with audiophilic pretensions tend to prefer the NAD/Rotel/Arcam presentations over the Denon/Pioneer/Marantz crowd.

I hope this makes some kind of sense!

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Alexfromholland

Post Number: 18
Registered: Aug-04
Frank,

It certainly makes sense ! I really like the NAD sound. It's very warm and open. Also with higher volumes, NAD keeps this natural sound, without distortion at all! I must admit that the hissing is not that bad for me in order to trade it for a Marantz or Onkyo. It just sounds too good.

Even my wife got used to the good sound and started complaining when I sent it in for repair !

(doesn't that say it all ;-)

Alex

PS. I hope that you have time to play around tomorrow!
 

Silver Member
Username: Johnny

Missouri

Post Number: 388
Registered: Dec-03
Guys,

I have been away for awhile, so I just came across this thread. I am sure that most regular posters know my stance on this issue (see some of the threads landroval linked to above). I don't know if it matters or not (since I own an NAD T762 and you all seem to be talking about the 7x3 series), but my unit is absolutely, 100% hiss free. I have tested using headphones, and put my ear directly on the speaker at a fairly high volume...ABSOLUTELY NO HISS. This does not mean that I cannot "discern the problem". I have heard hiss before...and my NAD does not have it.

I have also been to at least three dealers that sold NAD products...two of whom I trust wholeheartedly. At these dealers, I tested for hiss on ALL of NAD's current receiver lineup. I didn't try with headphones at the dealers, but I did put my ear directly up to the speakers, and once again, NO HISS ON ANY OF THESE UNITS EITHER, at least none that I could hear. So, either this problem is not quite as widespread as some on here are making it out to be, or myself, Jonathan, Hawk, (just to name a few) and all three of these dealers are just lucky I guess.
 

Anonymous
 
Do you think guys its time to switch to Cambridge Audio?
 

Daniel Benatar
Unregistered guest
i HAVE THE nad t773 AND NO HISS - EXCELLENT PERFORMANCE.
 

New member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 10
Registered: Sep-04
Hi there,

Well I got the 753 and 743 warmed up and tried them out. Through the speakers (focal jmlab 726s which are about as efficient as the B&W 603s) I could not discern any hiss at -10db volume until I was within 6 inches of the speaker. The 753 itself suffers from a little fan noise. I then tried the headphone outputs at the same level using Sennheizer HD650s. Hiss is noticeable, even with music program playing - disappointing. As a control I tried the headphones against an Arcam AVR300 - much much quieter. Hiss only noticeable at full volume which would be LOUD! I didn't try the Arcam with music...:-)

So -with speakers, not really discernible hiss, but with headphones a bit like old cassette players. :-( All tests done with amps set to both digital and analogue inputs. It seems our customers don't use headphones or aren't bothered by it.

I guess if you want to get around this problem, you can either change amp (ouch!) or try a separate dedicated headphone amp like the Project Head Box. Sorry I can't be more help!

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Gatt767

Malta

Post Number: 62
Registered: Feb-04
People, are you hearing the hiss with no source selected or example while listening too a quite passage within a film?

High Frank I'm from Malta too. When i saw your surname i immediately noticed that you could be of Maltese origin. I have sent you a mail within your address listed in your profile.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 602
Registered: Feb-04
"People, are you hearing the hiss with no source selected or example while listening to a quite passage within a film?"

Both. It's the same hiss always present whatever I listen with my receiver. Quiet passages, no source and low volume are the cases when it's most audible. It's equally audible with stereo/PL/PL2/EARS/EHS1&2 and also with DD and DTS.

Another very annoying flaw is the popping noises when the receiver is detecting a digital signal ie. at DVD-V menus. I hear a very loud pop from every speaker when the 'track' changes. Probably you know what I mean.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ojophile

Toronto, ON

Post Number: 52
Registered: Jun-04
Re: various problems reported by owners of NAD A/V components

I wrote to NAD a couple of months ago about these issues, citing comments by frustrated and disappointed owners, and here's the reply:

"Thank you for your recent request via the NAD Electronics web-site.

NAD is totally committed to providing highly reliable products of exceptional performance and value.

"We would caution that you don't form your opinion based on what you read on ecoustics.
Ask your local NAD authorized dealer for his opinion. We can tell you that our products are very reliable but occasionally, like with any manufacturer, an issue will arise, particularly with products as complicated as AV receivers with "real" amplifiers in them. When this happens, you can rest assured that in conjunction with the dealer we offer superior customer service. We do not support purchases from unauthorized NAD dealers so please only buy from an authorized NAD retailer.

"We believe that you would be very pleased with a purchase of a receiver manufactured by NAD electronics. To contact an authorized NAD dealer in your area where you may be able to audition our units please use our dealer locater found at http://www.nadelectronics.com/dealers/, or contact our customer service department at 1-800-263-4641 ext. 4201, Canada. They will be pleased to assist you.

Thank you for your interest in NAD Electronics."


Amen.

"We would caution that you don't form your opinion based on what you read on ecoustics."
Ponder that.
 

Unregistered guest
landroval et al,

Either you guys have a mysterious (albeit not serious) ear affliction or your NADs have a distracting hiss problem.

To imply the former would be an insult to your intelligences, credentials and integrities. Unfortunately, the insults have already been hurled by those refusing to acknowledge your situation; NAD ownership bias, the claims of NAD dealers and, now, fully inane comments by NAD Corporate as an all inclusive response by simple minded people who cannot accept the sensibilities of NAD owners.

Opinions are not even relevant here, only the facts remain that your NADs hiss are relevant.

If it's still not clear, I know the latter happens to be true because you reported it as such which is to say that your NADs have an annoying Hiss problem.
 

amonar
Unregistered guest
I have just bought a new NAD T 753. I wasn't aware of the hiss issue before, but unfortunately I can hear it very well even when no other input source is connected (and I may also add - even when all other input sources are disconnected from the electrical source).
I have also tried to use the OSD to shut down any analog source...nothing helped.
However, the hiss does not increase with volume!. It is extremely annoying, and I find that it does damage sound quality.
In addtion, my reciever has the tendency to shut down/change input source spontaneously...
what should I do? Like everyone here, I like the NAD sound...
ANd by the way- I have dynaudio speakers, 4 ohms, with 86 sensitivity...according to some theories here, I wasn't supposed to hear a hiss...but it's definitly there...
Any other options? What about the arcam avr-200? or any H/K?
 

Unregistered guest
Ojophile,

Ponder that. Yes.

With all due respect, have no reason not to believe your report. In fact, it may be so incredible -from NAD Corporate- to be beyond belief.

Was your email reported verbatim as received from NAD; what was the email address that it was sent from?

What's my point? Confirming the foolish and shallow response of a Company scrambling to maintain its credibility vs. the integrity of reports on quality control by current NAD owners and, obviously, their concern over the potential loss of business to prospective NAD purchases.

Amazing stuff. Thanks.
 

Brett D
Unregistered guest
amonar, I just bought an H/K AVR7200 and I couldnt be happier. It sounds amazing, lots of features, and no glitches (none that ive come across anyway). If you want to trade your hissing NAD for something else, the AVR7200 would be worth looking into. And for 900 dollars its definitly a steal.
 

amonar
Unregistered guest
Hi Brett,

Thanks..I will look that up. The specs sound OK but I need to hear it. It's definitly more up to date than the arcam, though I don't know about sound quality.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ojophile

Toronto, ON

Post Number: 53
Registered: Jun-04
JAW, quoted word for word, italicized for emphasis; name of respondent removed. The e-mail address is the generic nad@electronics.com
 

Bronze Member
Username: Culp4684

Post Number: 30
Registered: Aug-04
I have just bought the Marantz 7400. Absolutely no hiss detected here. I've matched them with the new Boston VR series and so far the sonics have been outstanding...
 

amonar
Unregistered guest
I know it's been addresed here before, but: isn't there anything that NAD can do about hiss and hum? Did people experience improvement after replaceing one t753 with another or is it a problem of 100% of those recievers?
 

Silver Member
Username: Johnny

Missouri

Post Number: 391
Registered: Dec-03
"Unfortunately, the insults have already been hurled by those refusing to acknowledge your situation"

I don't think anyone is refusing to ackowledge the plight of anyone affected by the dreaded "NAD hiss" issue. If someone has a legitimate and proven issue (which many on this thread obviously do) with their NAD product, then they have every right to demand service from NAD. The point I have been trying to make all along is that this hiss issue is not NEARLY as widespread as it would seem from reading this forum. As has been discussed many times here, this forum cannot in any way be used to statistically represent all NAD owners as a whole. In this case, NAD is right when they say that opinions should not be formed based on what you read here.

Type in "NAD Problems" on Google, and the first two "hits" that come up are from this forum. And I only looked on the first page. I am sure there are many more "hits" from this forum on subsequent pages. Maybe it is because there are so many NAD owners here, or maybe it is another reason, but the fact still reamins that any person who is experienceing problems and does a google search or any other internet search, is likely to visit this forum first. When they find a few other problem threads that confirm what they are experiencing...they they pour it on.

I realize that some people have legitimate problems with their NAD products, but it is just not possible to make a claim about all NAD products based on what is said on this or any other forum.

Exactly what is so "unbelievable" about Ojophile's NAD email? It all sounds reasonable to me.
 

Anonymous
 
Guys

Return your NAD and buy something else. I auditioned recently HK and Marantz and no hiss heard even you turned the volume up to max value.It so sad and frustrating that a reputable electronics company concentrating on audio products, escaped this simple problem on their testing and quality control department.

What are you waiting guys? find something else and be happy! Forget the quality of sound coz music is in the heart and mind.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Alexfromholland

Post Number: 19
Registered: Aug-04
Frank,

So for the late reaction. First I want to thank you for testing the T743. Unfortunately you came to the same conclusion: an hissing T743. Definitively, it is a design fault. No question about that. What is NAD gonna do ? Well, I suppose the answer is: nothing. Probably they come with a T744 or something pretty soon, claiming: 'improved noise reduction' or whatever.

I have had no feedback on my email to NAD. So I'm giving it a rest. The only thing I want to say to people buying a 1000$/€ A/V receiver from NAD: be warned and LISTEN before you buy. Then make a decision. Good luck.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 12
Registered: Sep-04
Alex

That's not quite what I said. I said the NAD did not hiss through the speakers any more than any other amp. It does hiss through the headphone amp quite a bit. Interestingly, both the 743 and 753 suffered exactly the same hiss in the headphone stage so I suspect they have the same headphone circuit. So, I would qualify what you're saying as 'if you want to do a lot of headphone listening, listen before you buy'.

The sad thing is that the NAD amps are brilliant performers.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 13
Registered: Sep-04
Incidentally, because of the fact that the 743 and 753 displayed the same hiss in the headphones, I suspect - though I did not try it - that an external headphone amp attached to one of the tape outputs would not suffer anywhere near as much hiss as the internal headphone jack, plus it would give you the extra sonic benefits that you can expect from a dedicated headphone amp.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ilari72

Post Number: 12
Registered: Apr-04
Frank and all,
Fact is that NAD (or anyone) should NOT sell units with big bugs. These buggy receivers are USELESS with headphones! How NAD can do it? Whats that modification they have been talking about?
Can we trust it?
A lie?
I think NAD should start giving us straight answers whats going on.
 

amonar
Unregistered guest
I think one of way of dealing with that is sending NAD a letter from SEVERAL people, saying the same thing. I think that if we pay them around $C1200, they should BEGIN by selling a noise-free system.
what do you think? That may be one solution to it.
 

amonar
Unregistered guest
Basically, what I mean it that lots of dissapointed customers can't be wrong. NAD should know that and act accordingly.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 618
Registered: Feb-04
Frank, how loud was the room where you tried the 743 and 753? Because hiss can easily be covered by background noises if you dont pay attention. In my room with my computer running and window open with street noises I can still heard a faint hiss from like 10 feet from the speakers. Within 3 feet it's very audible.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Persvako

North Europe

Post Number: 44
Registered: Jun-04
And also with speakers there is the terrible background hiss all the time. The strangest thing is, that hiss doesn't increase with volume. With other receivers, the backround hiss in -70 dB is really minimal, it increases little by little until in -10 dB it's really big, like it should be. In normal listening volumes, I can't hear the hiss one foot from the speaker. With NAD the hiss is somehow the same all the time, no matter if it's -70 dB or -10, after that it will ingrease a lot.

It's like there is something wrong, something strange thing making that noise. That is covering the normal hiss, and the normal hiss increases all the time also with NAD, but it is so much quieter than this abnormal hiss, so we can hear increasing hiss only in place about 0 dB. Maybe you didn't get it, it's only my stupid theory! :-)
 

New member
Username: Amonar

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-04
Landroval

I think that the whole point of getting a NAD is if you do want to pay attention. So, even if it's 3, 7 or 1/2 away - that still matters.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Culp4684

Post Number: 34
Registered: Aug-04
Just wanted to jump in to say I was considering the 753 against the Marantz 7400 about two weeks ago.

I'm thankful I chose the Marantz!
 

Silver Member
Username: Johnny

Missouri

Post Number: 392
Registered: Dec-03
"Return your NAD and buy something else."
"What are you waiting guys? find something else and be happy!"

If you are unhappy with your NAD, then take it back and get something else. If you are upset about the situation, go to a gym and take your frustrations out on a barbell. Please do not make a blanket statement about all NAD receivers being bad...because the FACT of the matter is is that they are not. So lets all try to be rational here and keep the conjecture to a minimum. It may make you feel better to bash on NAD for awhile, but in a forum such as this, those kind of unfounded blanket statements really don't help anyone at all.

I think it is very simple. If you are thinking of getting an NAD receiver, go to a reputable and authorized dealer and do a thorough audition. If possible, try to audtion with as little background noise as possible. Listen for hissing. If it has none, and you like the way it sounds...then BUY IT and be happy with your purchase!!! NAD products really are great. Please don't let the unfounded and unproven claims of a few individuals on an internet discussion forum stop you from auditioning a potentially great audio product.

This thread seriously needs to be put to rest because obviously all logic and rational thinking has gone out the window a long time ago.

If anyone has some sort of concrete proof that NAD receivers are more prone to failure than any other brand, please post it for all to see.


 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 621
Registered: Feb-04
Johnny, I'm afraid you might not be kidding with what you said. There is no need for more proof of malfunctioning NADs. All the stories I've seen/heard/read/experienced tell me a very clear message about current NAD receiver lineup. They _do_ hiss and in addition to that they have some other possible typefaults like dead channels/displays and popping noises.

What proof do you have to show that NAD would not have more problems than others?
 

10amonar
Unregistered guest
Dear Johnny,

I think asking if NAD has more problems than others is not relevant. NAD is a brand name that, like any other, needs positive reviews. I love the NAD sound, but it's really weird to hear white noise hiss when nothing at all is connected to your system (and believe me, i tried everything).
I promise you that if NAD would fix my reciever, I will let be known here.
So what's your point that you were trying to make?
 

Silver Member
Username: Johnny

Missouri

Post Number: 393
Registered: Dec-03
I am most certainly not kidding. I don't know how much more clear I can make my point. I have never denied that SOME NAD units have problems. Those problems are well documented here and I have read every single one of them in the past 9 months. Those who do have problems have every right to seek assistance and to demand action from dealers, NAD, etc.

However, it is simply IMPOSSIBLE to make any claims about NAD receivers as a whole based on what you read here or on any other board. I am no statistician, but I do know at least a little bit about statistics. In order to say with any certainty that NAD has a serious issue with hiss, one would need to take a statistically relevant and unbiased sample. You cannot get that from a forum such as this. Since this is an online forum...there is already bias. What percentage of all NAD users have computers with Internet access? What percentage of all of these users make their way upon this site? No one can say for sure. Therefore, it is statistically impossible to determine one way or the other that NAD has any more problems that any other brand. Furthermore, not only is it statistically impossible to make claims such as this, but I am sure that you have all heard the statement "a happy customer will tell 2 of his friends about his experience, wheras an unhappy customer will tell 10 of his friends about his experience". That statement has been very well proven on this forum.

Landroval, you are right...I have no proof that NAD does not have more problems that others...that is my point...proof for either side is impossible. My point is that you cannot make blanket claims about the brand as a whole. You say "they do hiss and in addition they have some other problems....". I agree, SOME units hiss and SOME have the other problems you mentioned...but "they", meaning NAD as a whole do not. I have a non-hissing unit...so right there your statement that "they do hiss" becomes invalid.

My dealer, whom I trust VERY much, has stated to me that in the past two years, he has only had 2 NAD units returned for malfunctioning...and one of these was malfunctioning because someone spilled beer on the top vents. So, who do we trust? Dealers like mine who say NAD has no problems, or the people we read about on here who claim that all NAD receivers are crap "and should buy something else"? Both have obvious bias. Nobody knows, and that is my point.

If you have a problem with YOUR NAD unit, by all means, seek shelter and refuge here on this forum. But please, do not make blanket statements about the brand as a whole as this may unecessarily turn would be buyers away from a potentially great product.
 

10amonar
Unregistered guest
johnny,

I must say, that reading your words, made me realize that you are right, at least partially. Another reason for bias is that people who buy those recievers are more prone to seek and find problems that may exist with other recievers.
Had I wanted to get rid of NAD i could have done that, but I guess that I also believe that NAD has a good product. BUt,BECAUSE OF THAT, I believe that these issues should be seriously addressed.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 18
Registered: Sep-04
landroval

The room is virtually silent. The only very minor noise in the room was the air conditioner which is a very quiet unit indeed. The 753's fan was louder.

amonar, although silent equipment is an admirable goal to aim for, I don't think it is the be-all and end-all. If, by making a silent piece of equipment, you introduce a compromise which means the sound is not as involving or engaging, then you may elect to choose the noisier compromise. After all, there's loads of silent kit out there which is about as entertaining as a slap with a wet fish. And I am seeing their names bandied about on this forum as paragons of performance! :-( All kit hisses, it's a matter of degree.

On the reliability front, NAD equipment is easily as reliable as anything else in the same price bracket on the market, if not more so. It is very rare indeed for a piece of NAD equipment to go down.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Silver Member
Username: Smitty

Canada

Post Number: 123
Registered: Dec-03
Frank,

quote:

Smitty, my speakers are 94.5db (Audio Note AN-E) so I know where you're coming from. I used to own a Naim 82/hicap/250 amp (£5000 worth) and it hissed like mad through my speakers! When the music was on it was sublime of course, but I had to leave it on mute when I wasn't using it (very rare! ).




I'm curious of your opinion on the effect of using a higher wattage amp/receiver. I currently have the T742 which is fine for me at normal listening levels. However, once in a while I do get the opportunity to crank it :-) and notice a bit of distortion with some music as I approach reference levels. I didn't notice any distortion with my older H/K AVR30 (rated about the same at 60wpc/stereo) at these levels, however the sound wasn't quite as pleasing either. I'm assuming with a higher-powered amp I wouldn't have this distortion. Is this really the only benefit of using a higher-powered amp or would there be noticable benefits at low to moderate volume levels?

Thanks,
Smitty
 

Bronze Member
Username: Alexfromholland

Post Number: 20
Registered: Aug-04
Guys,

Tha NAD has 'Enhanced Stereo' which means that the stereo signal is sent to both front and rear speakers. Does Cambridge Audio azur 540r also have this feature ? Anyone knows ?

And another question:
When I'm switching from source by using the remote HTR-2, I have to press the following keys to change the source to TV and to use the remote for the TV:
AMP -> 3 -> TV (3 buttons). With my Mararantz, it was only 1 key (just press 'TV' for 3 secs).

Anyone knows a quicker way to do this with the HTR-2 ?

Thanks.

Alex
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 23
Registered: Sep-04
Smitty

The Naim was rated at 70 wpc but Naim watts are a bit like tube watts - every one counts. I found that the gain on the Naim amp was quite high so 9 o'clock on the volume dial was already pretty loud and anything beyond 11 o'clock was unbearably loud and drove the speakers into distortion. It also meant that very quiet listening was more difficult since you were on the fringe of the volume pot.

I now have an even more powerful Chord amp (350wpc). This is not as noisy as the old Naim amp (although their new range is much quieter than the old one I hasten to add) with the same speakers. Since the Chord is quieter I don't have to leave it on mute when not in use (again, rare).

The beauty of having huge reserves of power with efficient speakers is that you create a very dynamic system at any volume levels. That said, although I've enjoyed this combination for a long time, I now hanker after a different solution which will probably include quite inefficient speakers, so go figure!

regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 24
Registered: Sep-04
Smitty

Not sure if I answered your question or not. If you're getting a distorted sound at the same high level as when the HK did not distort, then I suggest your amp is struggling, which it should not do given the efficieny of the speakers! That said, efficient speakers do not generally go as loud as inefficient speakers. They tend to be more dynamic at ordinary volumes, just don't have the power handling. Suffice to say if I poured a lot of my 350wpc into the speakers, they would most likely distort and get damaged. Power handling may be the issue here.

regards,
Frank.
 

Silver Member
Username: Johnny

Missouri

Post Number: 401
Registered: Dec-03
Me,

I don't know of any quicker way to do what you are asking with the remote other than saying that most times, you wouldn't have to hit the "amp" button as it is the default I believe. So, after a certain period of inactivity the remote will automatically go back to controlling the amp even without pressing the "amp" button. There are presets and macro functions on the remote, but all of these would likely take just as many if not more button "pushes" as what you are doing now. The time it takes for you to push those three buttons is probably considerably less than the three seconds you had to hold the button down on your Marantz.
 

Silver Member
Username: Smitty

Canada

Post Number: 125
Registered: Dec-03
Frank,

Thanks for the reply, you're a wealth of knowledge! My speakers are Acoustic Research 310HO rated at 20-200w recommended power. I didn't exactly do a scientific comparison of the two with an SPL meter so it could just be that I didn't have the HK turned up as loud. I was just wondering if more power would help, but it sounds like it might just be a limitation of the speakers.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 28
Registered: Sep-04
Wealth of knowledge? Hardly, just been selling hifi on Saturdays for 8 years (it's a hobby).

I used to setup all surround sound demos by ear but some time ago I started using an SPL meter and I now realise that my demos were usually set with the rears too low. Oddly enough the centre appears to have been correct, generally speaking.

If you have a friendly dealer, they may lend you their SPL meter to set things up correctly.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1456
Registered: Dec-03
has anyone tried their nad that has hiss with a line conditioner?

and if so what happened?

how about ground loops?

i'm not trying to downplay the issue it's just i
haven't heard either of these things mentioned.

if they still have to much hiss after both of the
above have been done then yes their is a definate problem.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 35
Registered: Sep-04
The problem I've had with almost every line conditioner I've tried so far is that they usually have a bad effect on the quality of sound. Usually, the sound sounds cleaner and less noisy which is immediately impressive, but very often it sounds more sanitised, almost like it's had some of the life leeched away from it. It's an obvious test but generally I wouldn't want to apply it simply because of this problem I have with the sound it makes.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1458
Registered: Dec-03
while I would tend to agree with that frank on the lesser models.

there are some , like richard grey's that can actualy improve the
quality of sound.

and if the line conditioner does solve the hiss issue then
it tells you that youv'e got dirty power. and something should be done.

that's all i mean!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Agimat

Canada

Post Number: 15
Registered: Aug-04
Hello to all,

My dealer called me and he wants my T743 back. They said they will receive a batch of Txx3 from NAD with hiss free this afternoon. I will set it up tonight and I'll let you know.Kindly wait for the result and don't buy something to fix the problem.I hope it is the end of our discussion about "HISS".
 

Bronze Member
Username: Agimat

Canada

Post Number: 16
Registered: Aug-04
HI guys,

Sorry to tell that the new T743 I received this afternoon has the same problem. I inform my dealer and they call NAD immediately but unfortunately the sales rep was out of town and coming back on MOnday. My dealer get the serial no. and he will check it with NAD if this is included on the new batch as they promised.I read the whole manual maybe I can get a clue to solve the problem.I saw a portion that the supply jumpers(on Main/Preout) should be removed if necessary and I tried that and the hiss was gone.It was discussed also from the previous post. What do you think? What are these jumpers for? When I removed the front R jumper, the hiss on the front right speaker dissappeared the same as with the front left jumper even I put the volume to +16db.Right now I'm still using it without the jumpers until further news from the sales rep on Monday. So the discussion continues!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ilari72

Post Number: 17
Registered: Apr-04
Its nice to hear that NAD is trying to fix units.
When i did my tests, i also removed those jumpers.
Without jumpers i didnt got any sound out from my receiver. I mean no hiss, no music, nothing??
Weird, i must try it again.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 640
Registered: Feb-04
:-) The jumpers connect the pre-amp and power-amp parts on the receiver, so removing them is just about the same thing as removing speaker wires or speakers. No hiss, no sound, no nothing.

I'm happy to hear that we might get rid of the hiss.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ilari72

Post Number: 18
Registered: Apr-04
Thats what i thought too.
Larz must be joking "...using it without jumpers..." :-)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 36
Registered: Sep-04
Actually, when you remove the jumpers you're simply removing the signal transmission between the pre and power. This means that the power amps are still connected to the speakers, so the power amps are very quiet indeed. This shows just how crucially important is the preamp stage in any amplifier. Most noise comes from preamps, not power amps.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Alexfromholland

Post Number: 21
Registered: Aug-04
Frank,

Did you try the T743 with a different pre-amp (like the t163) ?

Something about the noisy pre-amps: I've read somewhere that toroidal transformers do not suffer from a high magnetic field as normal transformers do. Could it be that this influences the pre-amp stage causing the hiss we're talking about ?

(apparently the T773 and the CA azur 540r do not have hissing problems)

Alex
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