Archive through April 04, 2006

 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 44
Registered: Nov-05
Well, since my post 12 hours ago my RCA 61" Model 175, which is 2 months old, wont turn on. It comes on for a few minutes and then shuts down. Lights blink five times and then shuts off and it wont start up again. I assume it is the lamp.

I called RCA and the gal who answered said, " Let me check the troubleshooting guide" which I had already looked at in the RCA book. She came back and said she was stumped and authorized a call from a service center.

She gave me two companies in the Dallas/Ft Worth area. The first one I called said they havent done in home calls for the last 15 years. Uh,oh. The second said they would call in the morning and make an appt. I asked if they had a lamp for this set and he said he didnt know, but he repair guy could tell me tomorrow.

I cannot freakin' believe this! After just mentioning this morning that I am tired of talking about televisions this happens.

I am convinced that as long as I am tied up with RCA this is going to happen. This is my third RCA set. Not one of them can go any length of time without something going wrong.

Two months! Two months! Two months!
 

New member
Username: Shasta

Post Number: 1
Registered: Feb-06
Hi.
First post....need advice
I have the choice to buy one of the following 3 refurbished rca dlp's with with one year warranty.
Which one do you reccomend?
Thanks in advance.
HD50LPW162
HD50LPW164
HDLP50W151
 

Al in MA
Unregistered guest
The service man arrived after waiting 3 weeks to fix my HD61LPW42. 18 months old and it needs a light engine, digital board and heat shield. And the tuner never worked as I suspected. If Circuit City replaces it, I hope it is not with another RCA set. Service man said to go with Samsung...more reliable and much, much cheaper to repair.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 45
Registered: Nov-05
Service man just left and he is thinking the lamp needs to be replaced. Lamp ordered. He indicated if it is not the lamp the light engine is going bad.

I repeat TWO MONTHS OLD....
 

Greg Sarlo
Unregistered guest
I've got the covers off mine right now, checking things out. Not much electronics, but alot of mirrors!

Mine has a mfg date of 2/05 and it looked brand new when I got it, but I have no way of knowing if it was refurbished.

Jump, I'm feelin' for ya. I thought these Infocus engines were supposed to be the stuff??? Seems they are crap.

I read a lot of bad stuff on the Sammy's too. Dunno what I'm gonna do yet, but the wife is making me move the 32" tube into the living room tonite!
ARRRRGH!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 46
Registered: Nov-05
Greg,
Well, I am in trouble if the Sammy's are a problem too. About a month ago I bought a 32" HD LCD one. Picture is bright and true and so far we are happy with it. We better be, as it is the one we have to watch while we wait for the RCA to be fixed.
 

Unregistered guest
Hi guys,
just bought a new HD50LPW175 and hooked it up. Picture is just fine. I have my cable ran Cable box - TIVO - Reciever - TV. When I run sound through reciever, its fine. When I run it through TV, there is a delay. Any ideas??? Or is it just a bum RCA?? I had a 52" CRT and loved it. Better yet, any solutions?? OR should I get out while the getting is good and go to a Samsung?? This unit just had a MUCH better picture to my eyes..
 

New member
Username: Skithis1x

Post Number: 1
Registered: Feb-06
hey randy lamp went out thompson sending new one should be here in couple days but a tech there told me there using a alternate bulb for the 260962 and the alternate number he gave me was a phillips 100w-r95 1.0 arc gap part number 12720440 bulb says it works at 100 or 120w and this bulb is 309 instead of over 400 have you heard anything about this thanks for any help
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 47
Registered: Nov-05
I'm thinking Randy must be on vacation or something. Hasnt been on this thread in quite a while.

Bad news for RCA owners.
 

Matt from Maryland
Unregistered guest
Don C and All in MA,
I finally got the problem with my RCA DLP 61" fixed. The one where the sreen going black with a very faint red on non high definition stations only. Basically on any anlog input.

The problem was a bad "doubler board" the tech called it. But it's basically the board where all the analog inputs go into.

It was covered under my exteneded warranty.
 

Matt from Maryland
Unregistered guest
Jumpback.

Your lamp is bad. Best Buy sells them online through a partner for about $400.
 

Matt from Maryland
Unregistered guest
Sometimes I think the best solution for these RCA DLP sets is to dump them in the trash and forget about it.

The problems I have had and the ones I read about here are just plain ridiculous for TV's that cost $4,000.
 

camcoy
Unregistered guest
I purchased this RCA model (HD50LPW166pk) from Costco a couple of days ago (for $1500, including the stand).

So far, so good. Picture is great and set up was easy.

Again, no need to worry about buying an "extended warranty" at Costco, which I feel good about, since they will just take the TV back if it fails, even 4 or 5 years from now!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Agentxfile

Post Number: 52
Registered: Jun-05
camcoy,

I am thinking about getting this RCA model (HD50LPW166pk) at Costco, but I do not see it on Costco website. I do see it at RCA website.
Do you know if all Costco's has this RCA model (HD50LPW166pk) even in Las Vegas stores.
So, is the tv any good? Does have the "screen door effect like some older DLP's? What is the bulp/lamp number so I can check on replacements?

Thanks,

Joe

 

Bronze Member
Username: Cheneyp

CT

Post Number: 17
Registered: Oct-05
You usually have to go to the store to see if they have it. Many things on sale in the store are not on their website. I would think if you called them at your local store they could tell you if they have any.
 

New member
Username: Tvhacker

Dayton, Ohio

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jan-06
Got my replacement 61" 175 model a couple of days ago and it is awesome.. Watched some programs on the discovery Hi Def channel at 1080i and it is unbelievable!!!! the best picture I have ever seen, much better than the old 42 model... I hope I have better luck than Jumpback did with his replacement.. Jumpback, at least yours broke within the 3 month warranty period!!! It will be my luck mine will break at 3 months and 1 day...
Got my fingers crossed... Cya all later and "may your lamps always shine bright!!"
 

tysry
Unregistered guest
Does anyone know whats the deal with the HD50LPW166pk? Is this a new tv? There aren't any reviews out there on it. At costco the picture looks great and with a built in tuner, cablecard and a stand it looks like a steal. On the RCA website it has the chip listed as the DarkChip2, doesn't the HD2+ and HD3 both have DarkChip2 in it? Also, for those of you have one, how does the picture look with digital cable (not HDTV like they show in the store)? Finally does anyone know what kind of color wheel this tv has(segments...), and contrast ratio?
 

Big Woo
Unregistered guest
94 days since my first call to CC, and 77 since my first call to RCA/Thompson.
Yesterday a different service center called at RCA's request and scheduled an appointment to see what they can do. I suggested a sledgemhammer or lighter, perhaps with a touch of accelerant.
He said maybe my "new" light engine is defective.
The formatter was not the problem. Neither were the light engine, light bulb, or the ballast during the five previous repair attempts.
I still have a blurry picture on all channels and through every input.
Nothing even remotely close to HD or the picture I had when this TV was less than 8 months old.

Has ANYONE owned one of these RCA DLP sets for over a year without any major problems?
 

camcoy
Unregistered guest
Joe:

You will not find this RCA model on Costco's web site. In many cases they offer different items in the stores than on the web.

The $300 dollar off coupon is good in stores beginning Feb. 20th for about 7 to 10 days only. I don't know if the store near you would have it. I would suggest you call them and simply ask if they are offering the sale on the TV and whether they will give you the coupon at the store if you didn't receive it in the mail, or if you lost it.

I think the picture quality is excellent. I do not notice any "screen door" effect and I have not checked to see what the bulb number is for it.

For the price and return policy of Costco to fall back on, I really don't see any downside to buying one of these--assuming you can still get one. There were 4 of us lined up on the first day of the coupon when the store opened to buy one and I think they only received about 10 for sale. So, when you call your local store you should also ask if they still have any in stock and/or if they are issuing "rain checks" at the coupon price.

Good luck!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Agentxfile

Post Number: 54
Registered: Jun-05
camcoy,

Since I am not a member and if they will not give me a coupon then how much is that RCA model (HD50LPW166pk) without it?

Thanks,

Joe

 

tysry
Unregistered guest
Joe the HD50LPW166pk original price without the coupon is $1799 and the coupon is worth $300.

Camcoy (or anyone who has this tv), how is the picture with normal cable (digital or satellite)? Does anyone have any of the information from my original post (what chip, colorwheel, contrast details)?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 48
Registered: Nov-05
Glad to hear of your success Roy. I agree the 175 produces a terrific picture. HD for sports and movies are just superb. I swear it will extend my life by 10 years.

When I get my bulb my wife wants me to sell the set and get another brand w/warranty. I must admit sitting here with a three month warranty is nerve racking as the costs to fix these babies are enormous and the down time waiting for things to be fixed is galling...as Woo will confirm.

Not sure what I am going to do. Hopefully, my bulb will be in next week and I can be a happy camper again.
 

Unregistered guest
Hi everyone... I'm new to this forum, but I couldn't help but get involved in this RCA discussion.

I too am thinking seriously about buying the RCA's HD50LPW166PK available at Costco for $1,500 (price using the coupon). I've never bought anything this expensive before at Costco. Does anyone really know just how long Costco will cover this TV? I've heard up to 5 years, but according to one of the employees I talked to at Costco's customer service desk a couple of days ago, Costco will allow returns on TVs for a "reasonable time that's expected for electronics". I wasn't given a specific time allotment. Do you think Costco may change their policies as far as returning a big ticket item when they're known to have problems? My future nephew-in-law is an employee at Costco and he couldn't even give me any insight on just how long he thought Costco would allow replacement of a TV.

Should I take a chance and buy the TV? It'll end up costing me about $1635 including tax. Is it worth it even if it lasts for only 4-5 years (if Costco will warranty it for that long)?

Thanks in advance for any input...
Hapa67
 

New member
Username: Dts

Post Number: 1
Registered: Feb-06
Got my HD44LPW62 yesterday. Looks nice in my living room. I sit 6-7 feet away and the size is nice.

Hooked up a Jensen OTA HD antenna. Picked up 5 channels from my South Bend locals (15 miles away). Picture looks really nice. I was wanting to lick the snow from the screen yesterday during Olympic Cross Country skiing. There is a major difference between SD and HD (1080i).

After watching the Olympics in HD, I switched back to the Comcast digital cable box/DVR (HD ready, but not available in my area yet), and 480i looked disgusting! But, after I got used to that, it looked good again. SD looks much better on this set than it does on my SD 27" WEGA (now the bedroom TV).

There is a problem with the audio though. I'm using the optical out on the TV to my AV receiver. For some really weird reason, the audio volume level is about half of other 5.1 sources, such as DVD and the cable box in 2.0/5.1. Even if I turn the receiver up it does not sound as good or dynamic as the other digital sources.

I have the speakers on the TV set to OFF and I am by no means a newbie to home theater. I have tried to adjust the gain on the antenna and it mad no difference.

I have switched input spots on the receiver (6) and it made no difference.

I have put a call into RCA and I have gone through the first step of diagnostics (unplugging everthing from the TV and letting is sit for 10 minutes). After reconnecting everything, and powering up, the sound level is up.

I am thinking about connecting the antenna to the "antenna in" on the Comcast HD DVR. I am expecting it to find the HD channels and add them in the line-up where the should be. Then I can record those HD channels like I normally would any other programming with the DVR.

Am I correct in this thinking or am I, once again, asking too much from Comcast? As it is, they will have to do something major to keep me as a customer because they cannot provide HD programming for me. What makes me so mad is that South Bend, HD is flowing freely and I only live 15 miles north of there!

Thanks guys.


btw.... letting the TV sit unplugged from everything did NOT completely reset it to factory defaults. All the modes were the way I left them, all the channels (even non-HD channels that I manually input) were still present. I cannot figure out how to delete these channels that the TV decided to save. All I want it to store are the HD channels....period.
 

Anonymous
 
I purchased the "Costco special" RCA HD50LPW166 and it looks great with HD signal and crappy as usual with standard def. for movies and such I am happy with it, BUT I also have a couple of videogame systems attached to it and there is a slight lag between what the TV shows and the controller input. Especially with Donkey Conga, where you have to hit the controller about a half a second earlier than when the TV is showing the action. I am assuming it is because of lag due to the signal processor, but is there any way around this? or is this a common issue with HDTV's in general?
 

New member
Username: Dts

Buchanan, Michigan

Post Number: 2
Registered: Feb-06
Well, scrap that. The audio problem is not fixed. RCA gave me phone numbers for a couple of local authorized reps. Phone call has been placed. :-(
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 49
Registered: Nov-05
Hapa,
Heck yes. If you can get five years out of one of these beasts for $300-$400 a year that is a stealin' deal. Plus the comfort of having a warranty. Go for it!

In five years the set will be out dated being replaced by lithium crystals up to warp factor speeds.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Cheneyp

CT

Post Number: 18
Registered: Oct-05
Dave - it would probably easier to just bring the set back to Costco instead of waiting for an RCA rep....
 

camcoy
Unregistered guest
tysry:

I have the RCA dlp set hooked-up to cox cable that provided digital and HD (on certain stations) signals.

As expected, the HD images are fantastic, as are DVD movies. The digital signal provides a very good picture, too, for recently produced programs, i.e., not on older programs from the 1960's, etc.

also, I believe the chip is the dark 2 chip.

Hapa:

I think Costco will be fair about accepting a return of the RCA TV in the circumstances, i.e., if you don't think you got enough mileage out of the set then I think they would accept the return in exchange for another TV then available.

Nothing is for sure, or guaranteed, but I am willing to take a chance as they have never given me grief about returning something, unlike other retailers, albeit I have never tried to return a $1500 item.


Good luck, guys.
 

Greg Sarlo
Unregistered guest
HD61THW263 is in the shop for no power. They called today, the ballast is bad. $260 for parts, $250 for labor. I hate to even sink this much into it because once it turns back on I still have the shadow across the screen to deal with.

Is the ballast something you could DIY? Anyone ever done one on a DLP before?

I think I will go through with the repairs, then see how it goes from there. Can't get much worse.

This is one guy who will never give RCA another penny of my money.
 

Ron K
Unregistered guest
Received my HD61LPW175 replacement for HDLP50W151 2 days ago and guess how long it lasted? 5 hours and back to the shop with a green jerky picture. I can't believe RCA can make something with such little quality control. If you have a choice don't buy one of their sets it's just not worth it.
 

Big Woo
Unregistered guest
100 Days- Still no resolution.
Two different TV repair shops have confirmed that the picture is lousy at best. (What a shocker) Anyone who comes over to my house and looks at the TV comes to the same conclusion.

2nd repair shop told me that the "Field Service Manager" is going to "Take Care" of it.
It will take some time, but the
States Attorney's Office of Consumer Protection
says they will help me out.

In my opinion, anyone who buys any one of these TV's with the RCA brand should have their head examined after reading so many negative posts about this ill designed product and non-existant Customer Service.
The last time they returned a call to me was 12/8/05.
100 DAYS...60+ Phone calls... Countless hours on hold.
Don't be an idiot, you were warned.
Peace.
 

Al in MA
Unregistered guest
It's been 2 weeks since the service company looked at my HD61LPW42 and said they were making arrangements for Circuit City to pick the TV up. Called CC yesterday and they approved the TV repair estimate. Called the repair shop and they told me the material cost is $2,375 plus labor...light engine, heat shield, doubler assembly, lamp assembly and tuner(which never worked). Can't believe they didn't replace it. Have to wait 3 more weeks for parts and two weeks after for repair. Im glad they didn't replace it as my 4 yr warranty is still valid and it looks like it will be used again. these TVs have beautiful pictures but are garbage. Would never buy an RCA product again.
 

HD50LPW166PK
Unregistered guest
Knocking on wood....after reading these posts. I got the HD50LPW166PK at Costco (floor model to boot) and it looks/works great! Getting DirecTV HD installed this weekend but so far I have only been using a Terk HD antenna which I'll probably return since I won't need it any more...kinda a ghetto but oh well. Great picture, great sound, great price. I was actually surprised that the picture looked so good...better than the store. Plus I didn't have to PAY for an exteneded warranty, I can return it to Costco if it craps out on me. Good to go. I was just about to spend 3K on a Sony or Samsung....we'l see how this works out but again I've got Costco's support on my satisfaction.
 

DLP
Unregistered guest
HD50:

I did the same thing. I am a little disappointed with the SD picture, you will have to let me know what you think when you aren't watching it in HD. Did you get Avia or DVE to set up the TV?
 

HD50LPW166PK
Unregistered guest
Avia or DVE? Are those callobration DVD's? I am going to wait until DirecTV sets up the HD unit before going down that path. I'll tweak it with my own eyes first, since that is what matters. Can't really give a full review since it has only been a few days and running off an antenna (new house, no Sat/Cable til the weekend).
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 50
Registered: Nov-05
Geez, I hate to pile on here, but my replacement set 61" 175 that was two months old went out and the tech guy says it is a bulb or the light engine. He ordered a bulb. It has been two weeks now and I am getting the same sinking feeling I had with the set before this. On that set I waited 12 agonizing weeks before RCA admitted they had no bulb available anywhere in the world and sent me the replacement 175.

The service people keep moving the eta of this bulb up and can give me no definate estimate. I called RCA and they gave me the same song and dance as when I used to call on the old set....."Two to eight weeks". When I pressed them and basically said, "You have no earthly idea when these bulbs are going to come in do you". To which she answered, "No".

As great a picture as RCA has, I would never again purchase one of their products. The sets are just way to unrealiable as are the their service organization.

I too, like Woo, have spent huge amounts of time on hold with RCA. They must have two people in their service dept.
 

Ron in Illinois
Unregistered guest
Jumpback - go to www.ercservice.com. They have a replacement bulb #269343 listed in stock for $237.42. I ordered one from them to have as a spare for my 175 right after I got it as a replacement for my 50" 151. I have had no problems with my 175 (so far). It has now been just 2 months since I got it.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 51
Registered: Nov-05
Ron, thanks, yes, I have thought about getting another bulb and I may yet do that. I have one source out of Tennessee that sells the lamp for $199. I was waiting just in case there is something hugely wrong with this set and it gets returned. I know that is a real outside shot, but with my three year history with RCA I now know nothing is impossible when it comes to their product.

That freakin' dog of theirs should run away.
 

Hapa
Unregistered guest
Jumpback ~ Well, at this point I've chickened-out buying the RCA that's on sale at Costco. I've still got the rebate slip, but I guess I'll wait for one of the LCD or Plasmas that are going on sale in 1-2 weeks. Does anyone know anything about Vizio or Sceptre TVs?

I've got a headache trying to decide between LCD or Plasma now. I want to make a good decision that I can live with for the next 5+ years. Help!!

Thanks to everyone with some insight on all of this,
Hapa

Jumpback wrote:
"Hapa,
Heck yes. If you can get five years out of one of these beasts for $300-$400 a year that is a stealin' deal. Plus the comfort of having a warranty. Go for it!

In five years the set will be out dated being replaced by lithium crystals up to warp factor speeds."
 

dlpdave
Unregistered guest
I have an extra bulb for the RCA 50LPW162

Who needs one? Please post your email so I can contact you
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 52
Registered: Nov-05
Just for the heck of it I turned my RCA set on and it worked fine for 1/2 hour. Then it went blank and blinked at me. I was wondering. Do you think this still could be the bulb? Why would a bad bulb work for 1/2 hour if it was bad. Is something else doing this to the set?

If I run it until it goes blank and then turn it back on it will only stay on for a few minutes then shuts itself off and blinks.
 

Ron in Illinois
Unregistered guest
Jumpback - Sounds like you have a lamp power supply problem, like I did on the 151 I had which RCA replaced. Once the power supply (or ballast as they refer to it) gets hot, it goes into a failure mode. On my 151, after about 10 to 30 minutes to get it warmed up, the tv would shut off for about a minute, restart, and then work fine for about 5 minutes, then begin the cycle all over again.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 54
Registered: Nov-05
Ron, yup that is exactly what my set is doing. I will call the tech and tell him what you said. Chances are now I will be waiting for a bulb and a ballast. After a while this gets pretty silly.

Having an RCA product in the home is like living with the enemy.
 

Ron in Illinois
Unregistered guest
Jumpback - If that is your problem, and the tech can't find the parts anywhere else, the websight I posted in a prior post also has the power supplies (in stock as of this post) for about $140.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 55
Registered: Nov-05
Ron, thanks again. I have been told the lamp has been shipped and should be in tomorrow. So, hopefully, by weeks end I should know more about what my problem is.

Question for you and anyone else on this board. Which causes more stress and wear and tear on a lamp. The turning on and off process or letting the DLP run?

For instance. If you were going to leave the house for a half hour or hour is it best for the lamp longevity to leave the set on or turn it off?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Nu2itall

Findlay, OH

Post Number: 36
Registered: Oct-04
I've owned an HD61LPW163 for 15 (trouble free) months now and I leave it on when in doubt. An hour or less I don't even think about. The on/off cycle definitely causes more wear and tear.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 56
Registered: Nov-05
Well, good news. My baby is back working again. It was the lamp that was out of whack. Now, hopefully, this lamp will last longer than 2 months.
 

New member
Username: Big_woo

IL

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-06
After 4 million phone calls and 15 years on hold I was told today that the latest "global parts search" for the 2nd light engine was unsuccessful.
They have offered to replace my 42 with either the 175 or the 167.
I am leaning towards the 175 but would appreciate any input in this regard.
Almost 4 months after my first call to service.
I will wait with cautious optimism that my troubles will be solved.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 57
Registered: Nov-05
Woo Woo...great news..I know, I know FINALLY!

I believe I would go with the 175. The picture is incredible and perhaps the very best out there, but as you know, there is that word that puts fear into the hearts of RCA owners everywhere...reliability.

My replacement RCA 175 is now three months old today. Tomorrow I am on my own with regards to repairs and replacement parts...pray for me!
 

New member
Username: Ron_in_illinois

Loami, IL U.S.

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-06
Big Woo - I also would go with the 175. As far as I know, this is their "latest" DLP set. As noted in a prior posting by someone else, a prototyp lamp for the 175 ran for over 20,000 hours on the test bench.

I had a 151 replaced by a 175 and I like it. So far, everything is going fine.
 

New member
Username: Big_woo

IL

Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-06
Hey fellas,
Like I said, I still am waiting with "cautious optimism" as I have been told twice before they were going to replace the set. This is, however, the first time I have been asked to pick a model I wanted.
I can see it now, they told me to wait two weeks for the replacement TV to get here. The day before it is scheduled to be delivered, the "global parts search" turns up a "new" ill-designed light engine.
It doesn't work.
My as-of-yet unborn grandchildren are graduating from college and I am still waiting for the parts...ugh!

On another note, I sent the RCA website an email stating my frustration with getting any answers from the (580)# and describing the 179 minutes I spent on hold in the last month alone and I got a form letter... telling me to contact the (580)# "so that they would be better able to help me".
THAT is sad.

Were these replacement TV's new in the box when they were delivered to you guys?
 

New member
Username: Ron_in_illinois

Loami, IL U.S.

Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-06
Big Woo,

My replacement 175 was new-in-the-box. Sent to my TV dealer from the RCA warehouse in El Paso, TX.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 58
Registered: Nov-05
Yes mine was new in box. Ron, Sorry, but 20,000 hours is pretty hard to believe since my sets lamp didnt last two months at about six hours per day. Maybe they got lucky.

This set has the best whites and blacks I have ever seen. The color on HD is beyond belief and watching sports or movies or Discovery HD is about the best there is. It truly is the best picture out there.

Now if I did not have to dial the dreaded 800 number or any number associated with RCA I will be one happy fella.
 

New member
Username: Ron_in_illinois

Loami, IL U.S.

Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-06
Jumpback, as I said, it was a prototype lamp. Who knows what changes they made before going to production.
 

New member
Username: Desert_dweller

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-06
I have a mysterious problem with my 2004 Scenium W151. Excellent, reliable performance until a month ago. On cable (without a STB), there is a click, and the picture and audio disappear. The set continues to operate perfectly from off-air signals. A "fix is to disconnect it from power for an hour or so and reconnect. It's happened twice. RCA local service has no idea what causes the problem. Seems like a software problem. Ideas?
 

New member
Username: Desert_dweller

Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-06
A trivial but annoying problem nonetheless: The remote for my 2004 W151 has a metal faceplate that has partially lifted from the plastic substrate. The adhesive is inadequate. It's been this way since delivery. Is there a recommended fix? RCA sells replacements for about $30 but I don't want to buy one if the new remotes have the same problem.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Cheneyp

CT

Post Number: 19
Registered: Oct-05
I don't know of a fix - fortunately this has not happened to my remote. I have been using a Harmony 880 since November last year anyhow so I'm not getting much handling time on my remote.
 

New member
Username: Desert_dweller

Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-06
Thanks. Perhaps we will take the plunge. The Harmony 880 has a good reputation.

I'd still like to hear about my "glitch" problem posted above. I'm guessing that a spike or surge came down the Comcast cable, altering the function of the W151's QAM restoration module until I reset everything with an extended on/off power sequence. If so, that might explain why off-air HDTV (MPEG compression only) continued to work perfectly while digital cable did not. And why the "info banner" still worked on cable input, because the W151 generates it internally. Any decoding experts out there?

Other than this recent glitch, our W151 has performed flawlessly for the 2.3 years we've owned it. Even the same bulb! (I have a spare)
 

New member
Username: Twosanchez

Post Number: 1
Registered: Dec-05
I'm looking for USED DLP engine for my HDLP61W151 or HDLP50W151 ... For spare parts...... E-mail me at twosanchez@hotmail.com
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 59
Registered: Nov-05
A further update on my RCA saga.

After a three week wait for a lamp for my two month old replacement RCA 61" DLP175 my set worked fine for one day. Then, the same thing happened. The set turns itself off. In the first two days it turned itself off six times. Then it went five days working perfectly. Now it just turned itself off again.

When the repair guy came out he said it was one of two problems...the lamp or a light engine. I guess it is the latter now. I have been told the light engine costs thousands of dollars...is that right? Fortunately, it is covered under the three month warranty RCA puts on its replacement sets.

I wouldnt have posted this, but I have been dealing with RCA off and on for the last four years with sets that do not work well for any length of time.

What I wouldnt give for a set to work for five years with zero problems.
 

New member
Username: Ron_in_illinois

Loami, IL U.S.

Post Number: 4
Registered: Mar-06
Jumpback - If your repair man can't find it, go to www.ercservice.com/lamps/RCA.html. They say they have the balast (light engine) in stock for the 175. It is part # 269048. Price $133.70
 

New member
Username: Big_woo

IL

Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-06
Ummm- Ronald, The ballast is not the light engine.

I just read that all 125 RCA employees in the Customer (dis)Service department will be laid off May 1st and operations of the call center will be handled "overseas" -GREAT....:~(
For more horror stories regarding RCA televisions try looking through this page- WARNING- several posts on this website are vulgar and spam, but there is some info you may find useful.
There are also many posts by people who really aren't the sharpest pencils in the box as seems to be the case here occasionally.
http://www.netnoise.com/boycott_rca/rcabook2003-4.html

I will post more when my new TV arrives.
The nightmare continues...
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 60
Registered: Nov-05
Woo, I will try the new website. Nothing more comforting to find others who have had worse problems than yourself to contend with. Great thing about the internet, you can commisserate (sp?) and chat with others and not think you are the only one in the universe with problem tv's.

I suppose India will now take the calls for RCA. Super, now we can have a whole new set of people not know anything nor care about anything. Only this time they can carry out their duties in a language and accent that you barely can understand.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Cheneyp

CT

Post Number: 20
Registered: Oct-05
Doesn't sound like the support could get much worse than it is today. Expectations are starting off pretty low....
 

New member
Username: Big_woo

IL

Post Number: 4
Registered: Mar-06
I would have to concur with Paul. I really don't think thr customer service could be more atrocious.
On the other hand, ANY change would have to be better as we are at the bottom of the barrel as far as problem resolution goes.
 

New member
Username: Djack1040

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-06
One Yr old HD61LPW163 (Sep 2004) is "freezing up" after a cold start. Picture and sound resume by changing channel. Seems to go away after 5-10 minutes. Accompanied by a "buzzing" sound until also warmed up.

Anyone with similar problems and possible fixes. Have not called local dealer yet-no warranty.
 

New member
Username: Kito2112

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-06
DJ- Buzzing sound could be the color wheel, requires a light engine replacement. Hopefully not. You might luck out with a fan, there are a few back there...

Update on my 61THW263; back from shop after $500 ballast replacement. TV turning on fine now (knock,knock) Tech says bulb is shot too, picture is VERY dim. Guess I'll have to shell out another $500 to get the brightness back, then "live" with the giant shadow running across the entire top of the screen.

Ahhhh, the wonderful world of DLP technology coupled with RCA service. Like I don't have anything else to do with my money than sink it into a 4K TV that's only a year old.

 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 61
Registered: Nov-05
...And it continues. My set does not work at all at the present time. The new lamp worked 90% of the time for two weeks, but now it is doing the same thing. Turns itself off and blinks at me.

I am in the process of checking what the part number is for the light engine. I found a light engine on line for a set similar to mine and it was $2900. Holy Moly!

Since it is under warranty I wonder what the chances are of RCA just giving me the money instead. Taking back this piece of junk so I can go out and buy anything but an RCA. Chances are slim to none, I know, but as soon as I get a half hour to kill on hold I am going to call Customer (dis)Service.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 62
Registered: Nov-05
Well, it is now afternoon and the story of the morning concerning a light engine has now changed. Tech is ordering a ballast. I believe this is the item Ron in Illinois mentioned a couple of weeks back as his set was doing the same thing.

I did call RCA when I thought the problem was the light engine and they informed me they do not have that item in stock. So, if it does wind up being the light engine....HERE WE GO AGAIN!

 

New member
Username: Big_woo

IL

Post Number: 5
Registered: Mar-06
Here we go again
My new TV arrived at the service center today for delivery to my home. Yahoo!- Right?
Nope- the TV was destroyed inside the shipping box and they refused delivery of the package.
I called RCA/Thompson and they actually answered the phone withing 5 minutes (a miracle of sorts given their history) and will ship me out another TV which should arrive " in about 2 weeks."
All this as we have entered our 5th month without a working TV.
Perhaps all of you folks waiting for parts may have found a new donor as it was the cabinet and screen that were broken. I hope that isn't the case as I believe the shipper is responsible for the damage and hopefully they will keep the damaged unit as is customary in the freight business.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 63
Registered: Nov-05
Oh, my God. Woo, your journey is going to be hard to top even for RCA owners.

Reminds me of my friend who bought his un-boxed big screen DLP Mitsu and was watching the men lift it off the truck only to see it fall four feet to the ground and break into a million pieces.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 65
Registered: Nov-05
Well, I guess I am writing to myself here as everyone else has jumped ship.

The new ballast is being installed tomorrow so the mystery of whether I have a working RCA DLP will be known shortly.

Woo mentioned that he has been without a working tv for five months. This got me to thinking. In my last five years of being saddled with three RCA's we have missed 6-8 months without the main tv being in action. All three set contributed to the endless part waiting.

This is a giant joke among my friends, but it is no joke to me.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Formerly_fx

Dallas, Tx

Post Number: 41
Registered: Mar-06
We haven't jumped ship, it is just that I have had mine for nearly two years with not a single problem. Actually I am reveling in your despair since you prop up the likelihood that mine will continue to function trouble-free. After all it is a numbers game, so many problems per hundred and all. :-)

xvxvxvx
 

New member
Username: Big_woo

IL

Post Number: 6
Registered: Mar-06
Well Scooby, with that smartass comment we will be happy to revel in YOUR despair when your TV craps out and you have to pay through the ears to get it repaired.
Better yet, there won't be any parts available and you will be stuck with a useless cabinet.

Jump, Let us know buddy and good luck.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Formerly_fx

Dallas, Tx

Post Number: 43
Registered: Mar-06
Qoo Woo,

Sorry for having left you out. I enjoyed your sob story nearly as much. Please tell us more my unlucky friend.

BTW, your sarcasm detector needs repair as well. Try calling the net repairman, he may be able to help you with that and also your TV.

xvxvxvx
 

New member
Username: Big_woo

IL

Post Number: 7
Registered: Mar-06
Attention: All villages that lost their idiot, I think we found him.
I guess when your mommy buys your TV's for you it's easy to laugh about others misfortune.
43 posts in the last 3 weeks- You really need to get out more.
 

New member
Username: Kito2112

Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-06
Jump, we're still watching. My bulb has deteriorated in the last week and I can barely see the picture now.

Looking in to lamp options. I found a guy on ebay that repairs lamp assemblies, he installs a new bulb for around $150. My lamp assy is $480, so this may be a good option.

Anybody used this ebay member? (hdtvlamp)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 66
Registered: Nov-05
Greg, no I have never used that ebay member. I guess I might be a little suspicious that someone could do the repair for 1/4 of the factory price.

But, hey, the worst you could be out is the $150. In RCA repairland pricing that is about the cheapest thing that goes into one of their sets.

By the by. For the heck of it I turned my tv on tonight and it is working fine for the last five hours. This set is possessed. Some days it works and others it doesnt. The repair guy comes out in the morning with the new ballast.
 

New member
Username: Kam

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-06
Today's my first look at this thread; disappointing... I bought the HD61LPW42 'bout 2 yrs ago from CC & didn't think 20% of the cost for an ext. warr. was worth it...wow was I wrong.

So what I'm reading is that I'm out $800 just to fix a KNOWN problem with my TV? Anyone out there have a magic can of WD-40 that will fix it? The TV still works very well, and I am otherwise quite happy with the product, I'd just prefer not to drop my entire life savings to fix a common problem with my TV.

By the way, was also "convinced" to buy the DVR2160...not really worth it...it actually crashes the TV pretty frequently; that or it won't pick up the subchannels. Any ideas on that one?
 

New member
Username: Kito2112

Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-06
kamron a, Your set is the original one that I bought about 2 years ago. Wish I would have made RCA fix it now. I loved it while it worked.

What is your problem, squeaking color wheel? This guy I found on Ebay also claims to repair ballasts, color wheels and light engines.

Do a search for RCA repair on ebay, you'll find him (hdtvlamp). May be another option.

I'm going to ping some other boards to see if anyone else has used him.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 67
Registered: Nov-05
Kamron A, That is the set that I had for 13 months when the bulb went out. After a three month wait for bulb I finally squawked so loud to RCA they had to admit no bulb was available in their 'world wide search' so they replaced it with the 175.

As much as I liked the 42 the 175 is a much better set as far as the picture goes.

Greg, I found the site of the repair guy on ebay. Sounds pretty good. Can see why you are intrigued.

I think I would give it a whirl if you are out of warranty.

He mentions the reason for the lights blinking three times. One reason is the DMD? Anyone know what that is? When the tv guy gets here this a.m. I am going to ask him.

My set started up this morning and worked for three hours. It did take three times of pressing the 'on' button to get a picture. The set worked all last night. Very strange. I actually wish something definitive would occur with this set so it can accurately be diagnosed and fixed.

The occasional breakdown is hit or miss with regard to repairs.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 68
Registered: Nov-05
Okay, okay...I have to power down before typing.

Tech guy was here installed the ballast. The set was on for three minutes and went blank. Tech guy says, "Gee, is that what it has been doing?"

YES, YES, YES!

I say, "What now?" Says he, "I will call RCA and see what they have to say."

Best part is that he will have to hold the 40 minutes to get to talk with anyone.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
 

New member
Username: Big_woo

IL

Post Number: 8
Registered: Mar-06
Jump, I am truly sorry to hear that your tech was clueless as to your problem.
They don't have to wait like we do, they have a code to dial when they call.
Not that that has seemed to do anyone any good.
I am hopeful they can come to a satisfactory resolution in your case in the near future.
I am waiting on pins and needles for my new set (I hope it IS a new set) and that the problems that have plagued you and others don't roost inside this set.
Best wishes,
Woo
 

New member
Username: Kam

Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-06
Greg, Thanks for the help! I'd have to make an educated guess and conclude that it is in fact a sweeking color wheel. I'll try to live with it until I blow the speakers or until that frequency of my hearing ceases to function; anyone seen the birds in my neighborhood...all this time I thought it was west nile.

I don't see much of a point in contacting RCA; seems like a call to them is less enjoyable than a trip to the doctor for my annual checkup.

Is it possible to swap out the current color wheel, ballast and/or light engine without having to get a whole new set. I like the thought of the 175, if it doesn't mean I have to buy a new TV. I'll check into (hdtvlamp) and see if that's the route to go.

One more question, anyone know the current version of firmware for the HD61LPW42? I'd hope that in the 2 years I've had the TV (not hooked up to the net) there has been at least one update to the product that might fix the DVR issues I'm having.

Jump; DMD = Digital Micromirror Device

 

New member
Username: Kito2112

Post Number: 5
Registered: Mar-06
Don't forget there are several fans in there, but relate the noise to the speed of the whine. I think the color wheel spins at 10000 rpm or something.

Good luck.

I just bought a new lamp from ALLTVLAMPS, for $483 + shipping, ouch. Once I get it installed, I'm going to send out my old lamp assembly to the guy on Ebay and see what happens.

The light engines are very pricey, be careful with yours and who you send it to. Apparantly, the color wheels can be replaced without needing a whole new light engine.
 

New member
Username: Big_woo

IL

Post Number: 9
Registered: Mar-06
Kamron,
I was able to pull up this info on my TV and was told by an RCA Tech named Randy (We miss you around here buddy) that this was the last version of firmware made for the TV.

I can't remember how I got that other than holding the menu and channel up button at the same time and doing something else, it is posted somewhere in this thread before December.

DM Bootloader: B8.11
DM Platform: AA.00
DM Application: AA.00
Guide 5.5.32
1394: VL_WCE_Jun 162003
Link Hardware:b2
Link Software: b
FPGA: 2.8
Video Driver: T3.7.2.v9
DM Ser# 17739404212571
DM EEPROM: 16
Module: DM2CR
Instrument: MD2
Formatter EEPROM: 19
Driver EEPROM: 14

That whining is most likely the color wheel and if you can change that I would go that way as they replaced my light engine for that problem and I have had nothing close to HD since that fateful day.
I would ask the Russian at (Ebay)hdtvlamp a few questions about the low cost replacement lamps before I sent him money, perhaps he is rebuilding them himself if thats at all possible.

I have no knowledge of him or his methods, but I am reminded that things that seem to be too good to be true, usually are.

Best of luck.
 

New member
Username: Ron_in_illinois

Loami, IL U.S.

Post Number: 5
Registered: Mar-06
Jumpback - What is the verdict? Did they have to order more parts, or are they going to shoot in in the head and put it out of your misery?
 

New member
Username: Djack1040

Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-06
14 month old HD61LPW163 died this morning. Heard a "pop" and the screen went black. Page 74 of the user manual says"You probably need a new lamp if there is no picture but still have sound and the power light does the following-blinks 5 times, pauses, then blinks 5 more times again".

My symptoms exactly. However the note continues: The same sympton appears if the lamp power supply needs service.

I called RCA and ordered a 265103 lamp. Expected ship date is 90-120 days.

Saw a 260962 lamp on Ebay. Any chance it is compatible with x163 unit?

I have been totally pleased with the outstanding HD picture quality of the Model 163 and equally totally aghast at the horror stories of RCA support service.

Looks like it is my turn in the barrel.
 

New member
Username: Big_woo

IL

Post Number: 10
Registered: Mar-06
DJ,
Sorry to hear about your woes.
http://www.ercservice.com claims to have your bulb in stock for $359.89
Why don't you give them a call and ask them if there is any way you can test your ballast before you sink your teeth into a new bulb.
Hope this helps,
Woo
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 70
Registered: Nov-05
It's me again!

Tech called RCA (said he had trouble (ha!)getting thru, hence the one day wait. He said RCA authorized a new light engine. Tech said that for this set it is about $1200.

Got to thinking, what if I called RCA and said how about taking this p.o.s. back and give me the $$$$$ instead.

I presented my case (after a 40 minute wait) to the very nice, very helpful gal at the help center. Her first reaction was, "Sure, that is very possible." EUREKA!

It is my understanding that if the set or in my case the replacement for the replacement is less than 18 months old which mine were they will consider taking lemons back and fork over the cash. The rub is the offer was $1600.

Sooooooooooo, my decision is to keep messing with the 175 (which I truly love when it is working)but my experiences with RCA set has been more than one can be subjected to without putting nails in my eyes. My main tv viewing has been out of service waiting for parts for months on end. I just can imagine if I had three repairs on a set that is 12 weeks old (and that I have actually been able to watch for 6 weeks) I am going to be living with the enemy forever.

I dont relish the idea of spending another $1000 on a set, but I think that is what I am going to do. At least I will be able to get an extended warranty for four or five years and have some peace of mind.

I am thinking of a Samsung HL-R6168W. I have a 32" LCD HD one and it has worked nicely for two months which, to me, proves it is a reliable machine.

I asked her about the call centers move from Durant, OK to India. I asked if she was going and she said they didnt ask her to go. She said the calls have been dwindling where she is at and that the full turnover to the guys and gals in India named 'Bob' and 'Patty' will be completed 5/1. Dont want to be pessimistic, but if you have any issues, best get them taken care of before then.

I am almost a little reluctant going to look at the 'Samsung' threads on here because most people just write to boards when they have problems (like here).

But, heck. The problems cant be worse than what I have now...can they???

Good luck to all my buds on the board who have suffered along with their woes and mine. You guys are great.

If you ever find yourselves in Argyle, Texas (Dallas/FT. Worth area) lets all get together and have an RCA bashing party!
 

New member
Username: Djack1040

Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-06
Re: Lamp for HD61LPW163 (Part No. 265103)

I want to thank Big Woo and Len H for their quick leads on getting a replacement lamp. I had ordered one from RCA and was told 90-120 days.

Big Woo suggested http://www.ercservice.com (Express Repair Center-Miami, FL). I ordered online last night at 10:30 pm and the item shipped today. Cost $359.89 + UPS.

Len H suggested www.partstore.com. Their website indicates they no longer carry the original lamp 265103 but do show a 265103R (replacement).

I encourage you to look at both websites. They appear to carry a lot of replacement parts. When I first contacted my local vendor, I was told "they did not know when they would be able to get replacements"). So much for RCA support.

This is a great forum and I really appreciate the insight and experience of so many.

 

Bronze Member
Username: Big_woo

IL

Post Number: 11
Registered: Mar-06
Today I was informed that there are no replacement TV's available for me and they will refund the cost of the set.
This refund excludes the cost of the tax, extended warranty, stand, and cabling I bought to hook this TV up.
I will be out about $800.00 in total after this "offer"
The States Attorney's office has a division for consumer affairs and I have made an appointment for Monday with an investigator.
They will not file suit nor represent me, but they do have the power to prevent RCA/Thompson from selling their products in this state if they feel the consumers are being defrauded.
I may need contact info from as many people as I can locate about defective products from this corporation.
It almost feels like I bought a used car from someone in an alley with no title.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Formerly_fx

Dallas, Tx

Post Number: 45
Registered: Mar-06
Woo,

Since you purchased your TV from Circuit City and paid them for the Ext warranty, cables,tax and the stand why on earth should RCA refund your money for those items? You are just another whiney consumer with a grudge. Why not get a refund for everything else from the company you actually purchased the items from?

The State AG is gonna laugh in your face.

xvxvxvx
 

Bronze Member
Username: Big_woo

IL

Post Number: 12
Registered: Mar-06
In law, causation is the name given to the process of testing whether defendants should be fixed with liability for the outcome to their acts and omissions that injure or cause loss to others.
The key principle is stated as novus actus interveniens. This is Latin for "some new action breaking in". The assumption is that acts and omissions are linked together rather like a chain. If each link naturally leads to the next from a very early point in the sequence to the point where the injury is sustained, liability will be incurred.
The act of providing defective merchandise to a consumer is an actionable cause in Tort Law.

Scooby, I am so sorry about your Thompson job getting shipped to India, but you weren't very good at it anyhow. Maybe you can get someone to explain all of the big words to you in the above paragraphs.

Ps. The State's Atty. asked me to come in.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Formerly_fx

Dallas, Tx

Post Number: 46
Registered: Mar-06
Dear Woo,

Quoting from a law dictionary is very cute but not necessary in this case. RCA has resolved their obligation by refunding the cost of the display. In no civil court of law in the USA will they ever incur any incidental charges related to separate purchases you made the conscious decision to purchase. The TV will work without a stand, it will work fine with a single 99 cent RCA ( I love the irony here) vidoe cable. The TV has speakers included and you never used the extended warranty since your money is being refunded within the manufaxturer's original warranty period.

I love this quote the most: The act of providing defective merchandise to a consumer is an actionable cause in Tort Law.

You have no cause of action for any merchandise other than the display. In order to do that you would need to prove that RCA knowingly and intentionally sold you a defective display. Other than the fact that I would testify that mine and about half a million other RCA displays work perfectly well you might have a snowballs chance in hades. Think about this: Suppose you buy a used car and your State has a Lemon law requiring you to be reimbursed in case it applies. Even then you can't get a refund for the gas you used, the oil changes you made, the new sexy alloy wheels you purchased or even the dingleberries and carpet you glued to the dashboard.

Actually I think this quote is even funnier than the former: Ps. The State's Atty. asked me to come in.

We invite clowns and comedians into our office all the time as well. Sometimes even an AG needs a good laugh. Be sure to bring your balloons and juggling balls to your "meeting".

Good luck Woo,

xvxvxvx
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 72
Registered: Nov-05
Woo, what were you offered? I was offered $1602. Which was a nice gesture, but geez it doesnt come close to getting a 61" DLP in another brand.

I plan on talking with them again to see if I can squeeze someting else out but I dont think that will happen.

I am not sure what I will do now. If I didnt have a wedding to pay for I would have no qualms about jumping to another set, but the timing is bad.

I did ask them if they would just send me another tv and take back this lemon and they said they dont have any more. Which is what I guess they told you. Brings to mind something is really whacky in RCA land. Are the 175's bad sets and they have discontinued them or what? They have only been on the market for a year I think.
 

New member
Username: Kito2112

Post Number: 6
Registered: Mar-06
Light Bulb is back in on my THW263, picture is nice and bright again, albeit with the shadow still lingering. Looks as if I'll have to get used to the shadow for now, I am not going to sink another dime into this set.

Bulb came from ALLTVLAMP, they did a nice job packaging and ensuring it came in one piece. best of all, I recieved it at my door in less than 3 days from order.

Old bulb was in pretty bad shape. The filament was bent over and the small bulb cavity (which holds the gases?) was scorched and looked like an old dirty crack pipe.

Good luck all, I wish they'd have offered me a cash-out! I'd be off the RCA bandwagon.

 

Bronze Member
Username: Jumpback

Post Number: 73
Registered: Nov-05
Well, today's continuing saga had me call the tv repair shop to inquire when the light engine would arrive. I was told that RCA has decided not to continue finding the problem and will just send me a new television. Whose counting, but this is will be my third replacement set in three years.

Not sure how long the wait will be as the last time I chatted with RCA they said they didnt have any more 175's in stock. She didnt know when they would be in or if they would be in. Hopefully, they have a new improved model coming on board.

A little nervous since they are moving to India for good on 5/1.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Cheneyp

CT

Post Number: 21
Registered: Oct-05
They may be moving on 5/1 but can you honestly say that their support could be much worse? Based on the experiences listed here, Customer Service is an oxymoron to the current Indy-based group. Perhaps it will get better.... ;)
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