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NAD T533 DVD/CD player user's review, and DVD-Audio

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Gerrit
Unregistered guest
The Sample rate albeit 48Khz 96Khz or 192 Khz is not as important as the word lenght i.e. 16, 20 or 24 bit. The BITS give the qaulity.
For copying LP's a 48Khz sampling rate with 24bit word lenghts will be more resolution than you will ever need for the final copy to the disk.
You might like to edit at a higher sample rate but for storage 48khz/24bit is more than fine.

Remember the folowing fact:
To double resolution in PCM you only need to add 1 (one)!!!!more bit. If you go from one bit to 16 bit {at the same sampling freq.} The resolution increases 65,536 times (from one step to 65,536 steps).
Please read http://sound.westhost.com/cd-sacd-dvda.htm

Ps. My T533/T753 combo gets better everyday!!!
Still NO noise NO hum and no more startup problems for me!
PPS. I wonder where my family went?? oh what, that's their problem

Gerrit


 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1281
Registered: Dec-03
EJ,

Another good question. I do not know how much file-size compression MLP gives. I do not see that in the original pdf from Disctronics, but take a look anyway; it has a lot of other nice tables and explains about file/directory hierarchies, partition formats, and the whole business. Also their web site www.disctronics.co.uk ...it has a great glossary amongst other things. Sheer professionalism.

What I do suggest is the you can probably safely assume 96 kHz/24-bit will give twice the playing time of 192 kHz/24-bit (whatever that is), with no audio compromise, probably. You could also take some DVD-A discs and look at the actual file sizes on a computer.

I too would be interested to know about authoring software.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1282
Registered: Dec-03
Gerritt,

I think you are quite right. What brings the awesome sound of DVD-A is the "24-bit". I have some discs presented in 44 and 48 kHz sampling frequency; they are still miles ahead of CD. I think when you go to 96 or 192 kHz you get a bigger signal - it sounds louder. BTW My "definitive" DVD-A disc has two-channel and 5.1 at the same sampling frequency, of 96 kHz. I cannot see much benefit in going to 192 kHz.

In 5.1, make sure the channels delays are correct. You don't need to do it in feet, and is my original post. It is delay in milliseconds (1 ms per foot closer that the other speakers) that counts.

Go and get your family and make them sit and listen. That's what I did.

Isn't it something....?!
 

Gerrit
Unregistered guest
John,

I was just kidding 'bout the family. My wife just loves the setup, she use it for all her photo viewing as well (mighty nice perk with these new players).
She use to hate watching HT at a friend's place 'cuase it was just boom and tweet.
Now we can watch 2 movies in a row no problem, at my friends place I couldn't sit through the trailers.
With Dolby Digital movies I let the DVD do the decoding and pass the analog to the amp. It rivals the best DTS material if done in this way. Why I don't know but it works for me.

regards
gerrit


 

Gerrit
Unregistered guest
John,

I was just kidding 'bout the family. My wife just loves the setup, she use it for all her photo viewing as well (mighty nice perk with these new players).
She use to hate watching HT at a friend's place 'cuase it was just boom and tweet.
Now we can watch 2 movies in a row no problem, at my friends place I couldn't sit through the trailers.
With Dolby Digital movies I let the DVD do the decoding and pass the analog to the amp. It rivals the best DTS material if done in this way. Why I don't know but it works for me.

regards
gerrit


 

EJ
Unregistered guest
John A; Gerrit,

Thanks for the clarification and advice. I have printed a copy of the document from the Disctronics website. The article is well written and simple to understand. I have also printed a copy of "Teaching old dogs new tricks" as I can't read too long on the screen. It is 86 pages so far! I don't mind as there is a lot to learn from the interesting discussion.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1286
Registered: Dec-03
Gerrit,

I understood! The family thought I was mad wanting another DVD player. They don't think that, now. Wife: "Amazing; I can hear everything, even how big the hall is". Son (16)" What completely incredible sound". Etc. etc. "Just boom and tweet" LOL!

EJ,

Thanks. Great!. Please add you own opinions!

All the best.
 

Johan
Unregistered guest
John

I have been looking at your discussions after I found a DVD-Video from ARTS Music (www.kalahari.net to order your DVD-Audio's at about the same price as a new release CD. I can also give you the distributor's details for ARTS Music in South Africa. They started recording their masters in 24/96 in 1999 which make their recording exceptional.
 

Johan
Unregistered guest
John, Arno, EJ

On the questions of more bits/sample or more samples. I recon a higher sampling rate improves the signal more than the bits/sample. It is not about being able to reproduce 100 kHz but to sample say the highest audible frequency at 14Khz correctly. Look at http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question487.htm and that will show you that the simples of waveform, a sinus wave at 10 Khz is only sampled 4 times per cycle whereas the DVD-Audio is sampled about 19 times per cycle. The error introduced by only sampling 4 times and assuming the level of the DAC stays at the last sampled level untill the next sample becomes much lager than the different levels you can reproduce by 16 bits.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1314
Registered: Dec-03
Johan,

I have the Artsmusic Handel Messiah on order. What an excellent catalogue.

I am quite happy with DVD-A. I visited the huge record stores in London's Oxford Street recently and noticed SACD discs outnumber DVD-A discs on display by a factor of 2 or 3, but music DVD discs (DVD-V with music) outnumber both by maybe a factor of 10. SACD has already failed to achieve the market penetration Sony/Philips hoped for. Whether DVD-A prevails will depend to some extent on people getting away from the preconceived, and incorrect, idea that a DVD is only for video.

I learned here of the "sampling theorem" according to which it is possible to reconstruct a complete waveform from samples taken at up to half the frequency of its fundamental: this explains the upper limit of CD (22 kHz/44 kHz) and the high resolution formats (48/96; 96/192). So my guess is that it is the increased resolution from 16 to 24 bits that is mostly responsible for the great increase in clarity in DVD-A compared with CD.

I think SACD is important now for those listeners who wish to play music from bands or artists with contracts to tie them to that format. I am not so bothered with that, and see plenty of outstanding DVD-As, where I know the sound quality is always extraordinary. In fact, the greatly reduced size of the current DVD-A catalogues compared with CD catalogues has had the unexpected benefit, for me, of broadening the range of music I listen to. With my priorities and interests, I do not feel I am at any disadvantage having DVD-A only, at least for the time being.
 

Gerrit
Unregistered guest
It's a darn pitty that we as consumers always have to be at the loosing end of format wars.

From what i've heard (and listened to) DVD-A is the better of the two high resolution formats. (Thats my story and i'm sticking to it!)

Hopefully common sense will prevail and the recording industry will treat us with lots off new DVD-A releases in the near future.

Best regards

Gerrit
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1330
Registered: Dec-03
Gerritt,

Format wars have always been with us, in one way or another. There was once a big battle between LP and Pre-recorded tape for the "audiophile" market.

What is different today is that digital encoding allows the possibility of encryption, watermarking, etc. In my view, this is SACD's built-in "hidden agenda"; otherwise, DSD makes no sense. However, if you look at DVD-A from the industry's point of view, disc manufacturers such as Disctronics are increasingly emphasising that you they copy-protect DVD-A discs, too. But copy-prectection is only really an issue for the mass market. Surely no recording company fears people copying esoteric, high-quality, low-volume discs, where the owners will usually gladly pay a premium for the original?

I note there is no blasted and despicable "regionalisation" on DVD-A, nor on music DVD-Vs where the target customer is into Opera or historic rock concerts - it would be uneconomical to do it; they just reduce the size of an already small market.

As far as the mass market goes, not many customers will pay for a new and untried format, not until enough other people have it, and they are sure there will be discs to play. LP was there, once. So was stereo. So was CD. So I think it is the "Hybrid" discs that will ease the transition, and may decide which way things will go. Early stereo LPs always had big notices "will play in mono on mono equipment" - this was reasssuring to most people. When they'd got a bunch of such LPs, and were already playing them in mono, they eventually decided it was worthwhile getting a stereo system. Today, almost everything is stereo.

At present, SACD discs have begun to be produced mostly as hybrids with CD (which gives stereo only). ALthough this is a double climb-down (Sony said originally they would not do this, and that SACD was for stereo only), there is now quite a marketing push for these SACD/Cd hybrids. In contrast, all DVD-A discs are hybrids with DVD-V, so you get multi-channel however you play them: and even DVD-V is superior to CD for sound quality, certainly with DTS format. There are only one or two DVD-A/CD hybrids. Sony-Philips own the Cd format, too, as I understand it, so it may be that the lack of DVD-A/Cd hybrids is a result of them trying to protect their interests, and keep a special privilege for SACD.

Anyway, I've made my decision, and am delighted with it. The worst that can happen is the DVD-As will become like pre-recorded open-reel tapes, a niche market. But there are still many people with big collections of reel-to-reel tapes, and who swear by them. Personally, I think so many people have DVD-V now, and enjoy surround sound, that DVD-A has a good chance of succeeding. The number of "music DVD" titles in the shops today is impressive. These are DVD-Vs with music content plus video footage. Maybe that will be the natural transition for most people.

Personally, I am quite enjoying it all. There are already more DVD-A titles than I will ever be able to afford, and plenty of choice, for my purposes. Welcome to the leading edge of recorded sound!

Keep in touch.
 

Arno
Unregistered guest
EJ,

Bought me a Audigy ZS Platinum Pro yesterday. With it came Cubasis VST 4. Did you get same software with your card?

My prob, First time program open OK, second time it only opens the Transport Bar. Went so far to remove all entries from registry and re-install. Same story, first time OK, second time only transport bar. How do I get the Master program visible.

So BTW, Win XP.
 

EJ
Unregistered guest
Arno,

The Master Bar has a default which hides the Bar when it is first installed. In my case, it is hidden at the top of the screen. When the Bar is drawn out, press the right button on the mouse and there is an option to allow the Bar to be displayed full time on any part of the screen.

The software you mentioned does not come with my Audigy ZS, probably comes only with the ZS Platinum Pro. I have only 4 softwares, namely the Installation CD, WinDVD, Creative DVD Audio Sampler Disc and Feature Showcase Demo CD.

Keep in touch with the recording. In am still experimenting - editing with Sound Forge, getting the correct recording level, etc. In the Master Bar, there is a recording level which is more precise than the one in Windows's Control Panel.
 

New member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 7
Registered: May-04
Hello:
Why no people discuss the Pioneer DV-565A which has both DVD-A and SACD with quite cheap price similar to the NAD T533? Furthermore, is the quility of the T533 incomparable with that of the Denon DVD-2200? I am looking for a good DVD source for the NAD T763. Do I have to buy a NAD DVD player to match a NDA amplifier like DVD-2900 is better for Denon 3805. Any comments and suggestion are very appreciated.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1378
Registered: Dec-03
Anna,

Perhaps you can help yourself, and others, by auditioning these players. You might consider adding the Cambridge Audio Azur 540D to the list.

These are all fairly new models. Probably the Pioneer DV-565A and Denon 2200 have been around for longer, and you may find some professional reviews. These players both have SACD; the Cambridge Audio and NAD do not. All have DVD-A.

I recently read some negative comments about the sound quality of the basic Pioneer 565A (HiFi News June 2004 pages 47-49) but the reviewer seemed to me to have some sort of agenda, I could be wrong. If I were buying, I would discount that, and decide for myself.

On this forum, if you search, you will find, among others:

"Sem" who has a Pioneer 565A; "Kegger" who has a Denon 2200; "Rick Barnes" with a Cambridge Audio 540D; Several people, now, with an NAD T533 (recently decreased in price by 20% where I am - check your dealer's web page). The Denon 2900 is currently getting some praise but is rather more expensive than those others (See e.g.Plunging into Multi-channel)

Hope that helps. I see you have posted a similar question on the Denon 2200 thread (linked May 05 above) and several others. You might find that starting a new thread produces some views, and allows you and others to keep track of them.

There are some lively threads under Home Audio > DVD-Audio & SACD.

EJ, Gerrit, anyone,

I can see a way to work out how much compression (reduction in file size) MLP gives. I have a superb EMI DVD-A/DVD-V two-sided disc. It has what sounds like exactly the same stereo version of the programme on each side.

The box says:
"Side A: DVD-Video ... AC3-encoded 4.0 Surround Sound ... & 24-bit Linear PCM Stereo"
"Side B: DVD-Audio ... MLP-encoded 4.0 Surround Sound ... & 24-bit Stereo"

So my guess is that stereo version is just the same file without (Side A) and with (Side B) MLP.

My computer will tell me what is on the disc, but I have no idea what the file names and types mean.

I wonder if you can help?

Upload
Here is the "VIDEO_TS" folder of Side A (DVD-V).

Upload
Here is the "AUDIO_TS" folder of Side B (DVD-A).


Files listed by size in both cases.

Can anyone explain what the files types (suffices) mean?

Which files are comparable two-channel files?

How much compression does MLP give?
 

Unregistered guest
John

According to this site - http://www.surroundassociates.com/newformats.html , MLP gives about 1.85 to 1 compression. There are also a lot of facts on the formats at this link.

Anna

I bought myself a DENON DVD-2900 after listening to the NAD T533 and having both the Marantz DV6400 and DV8400 on loan from my Hi Fi Shop. The NAD doesn't have SACD and that took it out of the picture. The Marantz DV6400 at about 80% more than the NAD seemed to be the solution but the retailer confused me by letting me experiment with both the DV6400 and the DV8400 that is about 300% the price of the DV6400. The DV6400 sounds almost as good as the DV8400 but the 8400 is really well build and the user friendlyness was far superior to the DV6400. I have a T531 player and just love the ease of use. The 6400 you had to stop whatever is playing, switch on your TV and then go through about 15 button presses to change say from 5.1 channel to stereo on SACD. I did a bit of research and found the Denons - from the 1400, the 2200 and the 2900 (Got some or other EISA Audio Player award for 2003/2004). On specs the 2200 and 2900 should be about the same audio quality but I think the 2900 is superior. The price in South Africa for the DV2900 is about 380% the price of the T533 and only double that of the DV6400 and half of the DV8400. I think you get as good if not better than the DV8400 in the DVD2900. But John has the best advise, go and listen and compare for yourself. I only had my DV2900 for 2 days and I am so impressed. It sounds better than my T542 (CD player) when playing CD's.

Anyone

I still do not want to believe that an universal DVD player can sound better than the successor of the acclaimed T541i CD player. Is this a setup error? If you have an analogue stereo signal going into one of your normal inputs of your AV Receiver, is this signal then digitized again in order to do processing like bass management etc. This means that this signal has to go through the AV receivers DAC to be converted back to analogue? My Denon is going through the 7.1 external inputs which doesn't have bass management according to the NAD T52's manual. If this is true, The quality of any component not connected to the "straight through" input will be limited by the AV receiver's DAC quality.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1389
Registered: Dec-03
Johan,

Thanks for the link.

"If you have an analogue stereo signal going into one of your normal inputs of your AV Receiver, is this signal then digitized again in order to do processing like bass management etc.

Yes, if it is done in the receiver, and if that is what you choose. The only real benefit is if you want Prologic, EARS etc. All such matrixed surround processing is digital. Therefore, if you start with an analogue input, the signal is getting digitised with an ADC, processed, and then converted back to analogue with a DAC. Prologic and EARS sound better, with digital sources, if you use them on the digital input; you miss out that first and unnecessary ADC step. It is the same with "bass management" and channel delays. Choose a signal path with the minimum number of analogue-digital and digital-analogue convertions.

"This means that this signal has to go through the AV receivers DAC to be converted back to analogue?"

Yes, exactly. Amplification is analogue. Speakers are analogue. Sound is analogue.

The "External 5.1/7.1" input on the receiver is just like the "CD" input but with more channels: it misses out the internal ADC, processing, and DAC. It always sounds better, in my opinion, than any digital audio input.

Sometimes a digital source will have less good DACs than those in the receiver, and then, in that case, the digital connection is better. I have a Nokia satellite receiver where that is the case; its DAC is less good than the one in the receiver.

When you get to DVD-A players, the quality and resolution of the player's DACs is invariably better than those of straight CD players - they have to be, to take the much higher sample size (24 bit) and frequency (up to 192 kHz). This is why I think you should not be surprised if the Denon DVD-2900 sounds better even than the acclaimed NAD T541i. I try to say this from time to time on the "CD players" topic, but no-one seems to respond. There is simply 22 years of the myth that the CD is "perfect sound", and the feeling, I suppose, that DVD-A is some sort of extra feature of DVD-Video players, not for serious listening. This view is completely wrong, but what can you do?

My current stereo CD-only playing path is extremely simple:
Old NAD T532 analogue out -> Sony stereo power amp -> speakers.

I have never heard CDs sound so good.

Anna, and many others in her position, need to decide, first, whether they want SACD. For anyone who does, it does seem, from this forum, that Denon and Pioneer make good "universal" players at reasonable prices.

Personally I am not bothered with SACD, so I think I have got huge value for money, purely in terms of sound quality, in the NAD T533. It would be interesting, to me, to be able to compare its DVD-A performance with that of more expensive, "universal" players. I suspect the real cost of SACD is high, but difficult to the estimate. One should also remember that there are much more expensive players with no SACD; Arcam, Meridian, and a host of others. I personally would look at the Arcam DV 79 as natural competition for the Denon 2900, though it is clear that you have acquired an excellent player!
 

Unregistered guest
John

Thank you for the info. I have connected my CD player (T542) to the 7.1 external inputs (After disconnecting the DVD-player's input) and BIG WOW. I did not realise a normal CD can sound this good. I have now in the space of two days improved the sound of my system enormously.

On DVD-Audio - From the link I gave you it seems that DVD-Audio it a more planned protocol. It can within itself handle any new compressing algorithm (Although we then have to upgrade our players most probably). I have been to quite a few CD shops in Johannesburg/Sandton in South Africa and bought a couple of DVD-Audio and SACD discs. Without having a preference to a format, I am sitting with about 10 DVD-Audio disc and 1 SACD. This is Pink Floyd's Darkside of the moon and the staff didn't even knew it was a SACD. When I ask for SACD's in these shops, I get pointed to the Afrikaans (one of our local languages in South Africa) music section as they think I am referring to South African (SA) CD's.

At this stage we in South Africa to have more DVD-Audios than SACD's.

Thanks again for the info John.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1396
Registered: Dec-03
Johan,

Great. Glad to be of service. Many record shops do not know what these discs are. Even some dealers are not aware. As I have said, people think "DVD" stands for "Digital Video Disc" , and DVD-A is some sort of compromise or add-on to a video format.

I also have about 10 DVD-A discs now. Also some "PCM Stereo" discs. I do no think DVD-A in two-channel is different from linear PCM, except for the MLP.

Several web sites from around 2000 speak of DVD-A as a "planned protocol". My new EMI DVD-A has a long note on the sleeve saying the format was not clear where they should put the "group" button. Naxos has changed where it puts the "menu" several times (it is an unlisted final chapter on some discs).

I assume you have played your DVD-A discs in DVD-A mode through the 5.1 analogue out of the Denon player....? It also works with linear PCM. If you think CDs sound good...

Loved the story about "(SA)CD". Thanks!

You might like to take a look in the category here "Home Audio > DVD-A & SACD", also at my relatively unnoticed time-bomb Home Audio > CD Players >Twilight of the Compact Disc.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1417
Registered: Dec-03
EJ and Gerritt,

If you are still here: Sonic. "Sonic solutions" is a professional application I have heard great things about.
 

EJ
Unregistered guest
John A and everyone,

I have enquired with Sonic the appropriate version to copy vinyl to DVD-A. It is priced at US$14,999! There is an LE version which is priced at US$5,999. Both supports MLP. The cheapest DVD-A authoring software that supports MLP, that I have found so far, is the Minnentonka disWelder Chrome. Even then, it is priced over US$2,000 at discount retail outlets.

The discwWlder Bronze, which supports only LPCM, however, is priced at between US$75 and US$100 at retail outlets. Recording at 96khz/24bits, and in stereo, a single layer disc is capable of accommodating approximately 2 hours as compared to 4 hours in the case of those software that supports MLP (a ratio of 1.85 compression). Since I will be recording primarily in stereo, I am inclined to purchase discWelder Bronze, unless I come across a product which supports MLP at comparable price.

I can draw some conclusion from my search to purchase a DVD-A authoring software for the past months:

1. The price indicates that they are being used by recording studios and professional recording artists, producing DVD-A discs for the "mass" market.

2. Very limited consumer market for the product.

3. Very limited knowledge, in the computer and hi-fi markets, and awareness of existence of such product.

4. Appears that Meridian is imposing a hefty levy on copyright for the MLP technology.





 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1424
Registered: Dec-03
EJ,

Many, many thanks. As far as I can see, you are correct on all counts.

Two additions.

1. MLP just packs more on a disc. Discs are small, and cheap. Why not use LPCM? It is no less DVD-A.

2. Don't you think discs of all sorts are on their way out, anyway? There is an interesting thread, which Ghia started after writing above, I think. Ripping DVD-A/DTS/SACD to Computer. Networks and servers are surely the future for audio. This is why the industry is so scared, and why we have SACD at all, imho. Apple is now selling an ethernet/WiFi hub with an audio out socket. Plug it into you hifi, and off you go. Who needs discs?
 

New member
Username: Goldenarrow

Post Number: 5
Registered: Jun-04
Dumb question:

Can a DVD-A disc play on a DVD video player that outputs a DTS signal? My receiver can do the DTS decoding. This thread has piqued my interest in the subject.

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1433
Registered: Dec-03
goldenarrow,

The answer is "yes". It is well worth getting a DVD-A disc. But DTS is only halfway to true DVD-A. Sorry to be brief. Please see thread linked above, at the end of my post of June 14, addressed to Johan.
 

Unregistered guest
John

I will be going over to the thread you posted on June 14.A last comment here - I did play the Denon through the 5.1 analogue of my AV receiver. This was the second time I was really impressed with sound quality. The first time was when I played a DVD-Video (ARTS label - Vivaldi's Four Seasons) with a stereo 96/24 PCM track digitally throught my AV receiver with my T531. For anyone that is interested on why DVD-Audio is such a great sounding format and you have a DVD player that can output digital 96/24 and a AV receiver that can play it, do this exercise with the ARTS disc. That made me to decide that I want a player that can play high definition audio like the T533. To tell the truth, I think my CD player was the third revelation in music when I connected that through the analogue inputs. I almost want to say that I enjoy the CD player as much if not a little more than the Denon right now. I think that has to do with the limited music available on DVD-Audio and SACD and that I have the usual small rear speakers that works well with movies.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1443
Registered: Dec-03
Johan,

Great. Thanks. I agree.

PCM Stereo is another format people can try if they are sceptical about the benefits of DVD-A. If you do not have analogue output to the receiver, you need to set "Digital Audio out" to "PCM"; and, probably, have a receiver with a high-quality (96/24) DAC.

See, also, the thread PCM Stereo
 

New member
Username: Ojophile

Toronto, ON

Post Number: 5
Registered: Jun-04
John A.,

I may be the Johnny-come-lately kid here, but I found your detailed review of the T533 most interesting.

On the subject of SACD/DVD-A, I was browsing the Monster Cable website for some speaker cable info when I chanced upon their SACD & DVD-Audio Guide section where they said, "DVD-Audio and SACD players require 6 channels of analog audio output to pass the signal to an A/V receiver for an incredible audio experience." http://www.monstercable.com/hookup_learning/csg/sacd_dvdav/sacd_dvdav.asp
Is that true? Are they referring to 5.1 and up? I don't quite understand that statement.

Regards.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1448
Registered: Dec-03
Ojophile,

Thanks. Yes, that's correct. See "What about connectivity?" on my first post, above.

In almost all player/receiver combos, you do not get DVD-A with a digital connection, and never with TOS-link optical or Co-ax. From another thread:

DVD-A requires six-channel analogue connection between the player and the receiver/amplifier. Digital won't work. It is a "format rights agreement", meaning makers are afraid of putting DVD-A processors into receivers/amps. The exception is some Pioneer models, I understand, but, there, the digital connection is "iLink" a.k.a. "Firewire". This allows "Handshaking", meaning the two devices can talk to each other briefly in order to ascertain whether they are allowed to continue to communicate. As with so much else, the goal is to make it difficult to copy audio files. In any event, you cannot get DVD-A out of the player with TOS-Link or with 75 OHM co-axial electrical cable.
 

Lim
Unregistered guest
Thanks for all the fantastic advice. I'm getting my NAD T533 and T753 soon and my dealer is intending to sell me a digital co-axial cable. I don't know much about it but he highly recommends it. But after reading your advice, it definitely seems that i should not buy it. But what do i connect the DVD player with then and what sort of cable 'monkey-business' should i watch out for? Thanking you in advance.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1454
Registered: Dec-03
Lim,

As I wrote above on April 12, you need 6 channels (6x) of RCA interconnect to get DVD-A 5.1 from the player to the receiver. You will get 3x in the box with the T533. It is for stereo audio (2x) plus compsite video (yellow; 1x). Get one more like that, and you have 6x, and you are off. I do not know what cables will come with the T753. You will also need other interconnects; TOS-link (which I prefer) and/or 75 Ohm, co-axial RCA for digital connections (to get DTS; worth it). The same sort of 75 Ohm co-ax (but much longer) for the sub, if you have one. For video, S-video is much better than composite video (the single yellow RCA). The T533 will output component-video (75 Ohm, 3x co-ax; even better) but the T753 will not input it, so you will have to connect that direct to the TV (if it has component-video input). S-video is fine and it makes life much simpler to run everything (audio and video) through the receiver: just choose which input you want and everything works; sound and vision. I also recommend a simple 2x RCA co-axial cable for stereo e.g. CD. Chances are you already have one.

My dealer attempted to sell us a ludicrously expensive single co-ax "for DVD-A"; he did not know what he was talking about. String yours along a bit, ask him if it makes a difference which sort of co-ax (none will work), and find out how much he knows.

There is some good advice on cables and interconnects from Kegger and others (I agree with him there) on Speaker Wars. I personally would not buy cables from audio dealers, they usually have an astronomical mark-up, and a vested interest in wasting your money in that department. Go to a "hobby"-type electronics and gadget shop, e.g. Radio Shack in US.

Great combination. You will not be disappointed. Stay on good terms with the dealer, just in case; NAD vets its dealerships, so they should be OK on the electronics themselves.

Please post back!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ojophile

Toronto, ON

Post Number: 19
Registered: Jun-04
John A.,

On the NAD website, there's a sentence in the T533 description that goes:

The T 533 supports the DTS Surround Sound formats (external decoder required) as well as the always present Dolby Surround formats -- with decoded Dolby Digital (5.1) output available.
http://www.nadelectronics.com/dvd_players/T533_closerlook.htm
See "Features"

What did they mean by (external decoder required)?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ojophile

Toronto, ON

Post Number: 20
Registered: Jun-04
Ooops, John. I think you already explained that in your review under "What does it have over the T532?", but I'm still curious about that phrase.
 

Gopal
Unregistered guest
I would just like to point out that in your effort to save money on cables "You will get 3x in the box with the T533. It is for stereo audio (2x) plus compsite video (yellow; 1x). Get one more like that, and you have 6x, and you are off." You have forgotten 1 crucial fact. The yellow leg of those three RCAs is a 75ohm cable designed specifically for transporting a picture where as the red and white ones are designed for audio. By the way the yellow 75ohm leg is in fact exactly the same as a coaxial digital cable which is in fact also just a 75ohm cable. Just thought I'd clear that up for everyone.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1482
Registered: Dec-03
Gopal,

Thanks. You are correct about the need for 75 Ohm cable for video and digital audio. However, the three cables and plugs that come with the player look and feel exactly the same, and differ only in colour. Whether they have different impendances I do not know, it seems unlikely; they are all thinner than any 75 Ohm cable I have seen. But you can "get away with" a non-75 Ohm video cable, so perhaps this is the cheap, out-of-the-box compromise. I am sure two of those 3x cables will work fine for DVD-A, at least to get you going. I bought a 6-legged cable, but 3 stereo interconnects would also be just as good.

Ojophile,

my theory is that the T533 was planned to include a DTS processor. "DTS" is on the case, the box, and in the manual, as if they originally intended it as a selling point. "external decoder required" looks like a last-minute qualification. I am not sure how much difference it makes, or what the reasons were. I still find DTS better than AC-3, though I have no DTS channel delays in my receiver. What was going on there is interesting; Dolby and DTS are in direct competition. I could imagine some sort of business deal in which improved Dolby AC-3 performance was coupled with DVD-A in an excellent, inexpensive player. Dolby feels no threat from DVD-A and approves it. So maybe leaving out DTS was worth it to someone, somehow, and reduced the cost of the player. Maybe NAD just knew there was not much point in trying to improve on the DTS decoder in an NAD receiver. All this is probably reading too much into it.

Any thoughts?
 

Gerrit
Unregistered guest
Lim,

The T533 / T753 Combo works really great. I've had mine now for some time and life is good..

If you decide to go with expensive IC's, just make sure that they will fit into the T753 as it's inputs are rather close together. I got cheap ($20 a pair) AR ProSeriesII's and their terminals are very big with three o-rings (for better grip LMFAO!!!). I had to resort to using every second input for my analog devices, luckily there was still more than enough input options.

It was not a problem with the 5.1 analog input from the T533.

Regards

gerrit
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1539
Registered: Dec-03
Gerrit,

Thank for the update, and it is a pleasure to note your comments.

Anyone,

I have been given a DVD-Audio disc that the T533 simply will not play. Frank Sinatra/Count Basie "Live at the Sands" on Warner (my only Warner disc).

The "playing" icon comes on-screen and on-display ("DVD-A") for one second, then goes away, for good. the disc plays fine as DVD-Video on the NAD T532.

The Warner disc has DVD-A and DVD-V on the same side, as with Naxos discs.

Does anyone have any ideas? Has anyone else found an unplayable DVD-A disc? If so, which?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Goldenarrow

Post Number: 22
Registered: Jun-04
John A,

Could it be a firmware or eprom update needed? The Pioneer unit I am testing has a similar issue and a replacement chip is needed to, supposedly, fix that issue. Don't know how extensive an issue it is but just a thought to pass along.

golenarrow
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1541
Registered: Dec-03
goldenarrow,

Thanks. The chance of a 2004 player needing a firmware update to play a 2003 disc seems fairly remote to me, but I shall keep your suggestion in mind. I guess I should take the disc to the dealers where I bought the player and see what they have to say. All my other discs seem to play as normal.
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

Post Number: 148
Registered: Mar-04
John A.
That would be what I would do. If they have a T533 set up there, it would be a quick and simple test, provided its not too far from where you live.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1545
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks, Sem. It looks like this is the only thing to do. It will have to wait until next week.

Meanwhile, it would be really helpful to know if anyone else has played "Live at the Sands" on an NAD T533. Or any Warner DVD-A, for that matter.

If they have, and had no problem, I think it is most likely my disc, and I should go to the record shop, first. This is my first "won't play" DVD-A disc out of sixteen. I have sampled the others and they play fine, just as before. DVD-V playback performance is fine, too.

I wonder, also, if other players allow you to choose DVD-V on a mixed side of DVD-A/DVD-V? The NAD automatically chooses the best format. This is not always what you want. Especially if it does not play.
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

Post Number: 149
Registered: Mar-04
By DVD-V, do you mean dolby 5.1 surround, audio only? Because there is no video on my disc, aside from the normal pictures, credits, etc.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1549
Registered: Dec-03
Sem,

Yes, that's what I mean. No, there is no video on the disc. Dolby Digital and DTS are audio formats for DVD-V discs. DVD-A is something else. The terminology is really confusing, and I wish I knew of a simpler one. On other thread, a guy is saying he prefers SACD, because the discs will play on his car CD player. It is difficult to know where to start!

BTW, at My Rantz's suggestion (yet another thread) I have tried all the buttons on the remote control, too. All commands produce the dreaded "no entry" sign on the OSD. It sure look like an unplayable disc.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1560
Registered: Dec-03
BTW "a guy" is named "peach", I see. Sorry, Peach!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1575
Registered: Dec-03
DVD-A Sinatra/Basie "Live at the Sands" on Warner does not play in another T533, in the dealer's, either. Seemed to be OK on a Denon A11.... Not quite sure the latter was in DVD-A mode: the dealer was vague about DVD-A, and said it was a two-channel downmix, but the display said "DVD" and "Audio" at the same time. They have no DVD-A 5.1 setup in the entire shop. He asked whether the DVD-A disc had the right region code...

The shop T533 gave the same problem I have at home: displayed "DVD-A" input but did not play it, or respond to commands. Did not default to DVD-V, either.

Will attempt to change the disc for another example, and report back.
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

Post Number: 151
Registered: Mar-04
John A.

Sounds similar to what happens when I tried to play Steely Dan's Gaucho DVD-A on my Pioneer 563A. The DVD-A just wouldn't play, the time counter incremented just no sound. If I switched to DVD-V on the 563A soft-menu, it played the Dolby surround just fine.

In my case a tip from goldenarrow led me to the procedure for checking the unit's firmware version and sure enough it was downlevel. Unfortunately its a send-away fix, but the dealer I purchased it from is handling shipping (and charges). They say its a couple day turn-around usually, so that's not bad.

A google search of "NAD T533 firmware" turned up one thing of interest, http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&back=1&sort=lpost&forum_id=48& thread=1039&z=last
I had to translate but reading through it Christian Troll (May 17, 2004), had a problem playing a couple disks, The Corrs, and Grover Washington Jr. Seems like a firmware upgrade fixed it though.
If the replacement disc fails the same way it may be worth checking into. Good luck.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1578
Registered: Dec-03
Sem,

That is really useful. Thank you. The dealer said "it is the disc". I am doubtful whether this is the problem, but clearly I have to eliminate it, as a possibility, before proceeding. I wish one could get clear, expert advice. I am tempted to contact NAD, already, but they will say "go to the dealer", reasonably enough from their viewpoint, and I won't get much insight from them. I will keep that for the next stage. What interests me is ACTUALLY what is the problem. "Firmware upgrade" could mean anything.

Thanks again. I cannot read that page but I get the gist from you, Sem.
 

Unregistered guest
John

Have the same Frank Sinatra disks and plays fine in my Denon 2900. I am really impressed with the low noise on that recording that was recorded around 1966. On your question whether a DVD-A player can play the DVD-Video parts. I found that with the denon it is a function the people who make the disk can add to their menu. Alternatively I have found that I have a function that will display the audio mode eg. 1/4 (1 of 4) and a dewscription like 96/24 PPCM. If I change the 1 to 2 or so the other soundtracks like Dolby Digital or DTS will play. It doesn't work on all DVD's though. The other thing is to try to swicth the group. I think the groups are for the different formats on a single sided DVD.

On your interconnects - the ones supplied here in South Africa are extremely low quality. Go for something like at least the Monster Cable juniors. On stereo you will definitely hear a difference. I have to admit that 5.1 has such a sound stage that it is difficult to pinpoint something to do listening test on. I believe if it is better on stereo, it will be better for 5.1.

To conclude a recommendation to experience 5.1 - Foreigner's 4 DVD-A. Any audiophile will have to admit that you cannot compare that with stereo.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1645
Registered: Dec-03
johan12,

Thanks. I don't think I can switch formats on the NAD T533, only select different "digital audio out" settings, which does not help.

I think some DVD-A disc makers are assuming too much about DVD-A players, and vice versa. It sounds like Denon has got it right.

I am still working on "Live at the Sands", and will report back. Glad you like it! Sem put me on to it, originally.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1670
Registered: Dec-03
On another thread, goldenarrow provides a link to this excellent "FAQ" on surround sound, formats, bass management, and much else.

Frequently Asked Questions About Surround Sound.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1751
Registered: Dec-03
Sinatra/Basie "Live at the Sands" DVD-A update. The record dealer showed no interest in the problem, had no other copies, and gave us our money back on the disc. So I shall never find out. How frustrating.

Has anyone else experienced this problem; failure to play in DVD-A mode? On any disc?
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 185
Registered: Mar-04
John A.

So sorry to hear you weren't able to get the Sinatra DVD-A to play on your T533. Its a great disc, one that brought my 70ish year old mother close to tears listening to those classics.

Did you ever try to bounce the question off the NAD support folks?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1767
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks, Sem.

No, I have not contacted NAD. I think I will wait and see if the problem shows up with another copy, which I shall try to get from another shop. Or with another Warner disc. Unless I learn, here, that someone else has the same problem. Probably it is a one-off with that particular disc. Going to the maker because one disc will not play is not exactly armed with evidence of a fault. One of our first discs on the T533 was a rented copy of "Calendar Girls" (excellent) which refused to play a whole section, near the layer transition. I am pretty sure the disc was faulty; the same issue was there with the T532. Those two are the only discs I have ever had any problem with, except rental DVDs are sometimes covered with grot; they have always played OK after being wiped with a very slightly damp cloth. What exactly poeple do with them, I have no idea.
 

Lim
Unregistered guest
Thanks Gerrit and good to know that life is good for you with the NAD 533/753 combo. Mine arrived and LOTR Return of the King looked great. However, i was unable to play DVD-A and the dealer doesn't know what's wrong either. Anyone else has DVD-A problems?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1962
Registered: Dec-03
Lim,

Only with one disc see June 28, above. When you say "unable to play"; where is the problem? Does the display show "DVD-A" and elapsed play time progressing? Is the disc spinning? Will it load? etc.
 

Lim
Unregistered guest
Well, the display shows DVD-A, time does not elapse, but I'm able to see the folders and number of file in it. The dealer says it has got something to do with the software and copyrights. Don't really know. There's not much software in Singapore, and they come from Germany. Any ideas?
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 504
Registered: Aug-04
Lim

Because DVD-A's come under the DVD banner, they are country (or region) coded. This may be the cause if your player is not coded to that of the software.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1973
Registered: Dec-03
My Rantz,

No, all sources seem to agree there are no "regions" for DVD-A.

Lim,

Could you please specify the disc and the recording company?

"However, i was unable to play DVD-A". Is that just one disc, or DVD-A generally.....?

My "Live at the Sands" was the only DVD-A (out of about 12+) that would not play, and it behaved just like that in the player. It was the only disc I have on the Warner label, and I read Warner has a watermarking system to prevent copying. So I am suspicious it is a problem with Warner not sticking to the "red book" DVD-A format.

If it really is this "Digital Rights Management" issue, yet again, then the industry, and we consumers should rise up, and put them out of business. DRM is an obstacle to progress. It is also an insult to people who buy products in good faith, expecting value for money. My "Live at the Sands" had the words "plays on any DVD player" on the cover. Not in DVD-A, it didn't.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 506
Registered: Aug-04
John A

Thought you might have gone AWOL and was about to send out the MP's. You are right about DVD-A's not being region coded. My apologies to Lim!

On the website from where I have ordered some hi-res discs, they list the region codes as 1,2,3,4,5,6 but I now realize this is just a DVD ordering format. That's my excuse.

BTW, I have quite a few Warner DVD-A's John and there is no problem with any of them on my player. With your "Live at the Sands" DVD-A, it may just be a flawed disc. Ghia played the Doobie Bros "The Captain And Me" it vibrated and would not play yet my copy has had no problem. She also had a problem with a Beck DVD-A, exchanged it and the new one played okay. My Denon did the vibration thing with a new rental copy of "Crazy People" a Dudley Mooore movie. So I think the gremlins pervade many players occassionaly.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1975
Registered: Dec-03
My Rantz,

Thanks. If anyone can report on any Warner DVD-A that plays properly on an NAD T533, then I shall have to think again. It could just have been that copy, I suppose.
 

HAJO
Unregistered guest
I have also experienced problems using the NAD T533 with several DVD-Audio discs. Otherwise it works just fine. I took the unit to my dealer a week ago and he has sent it away for investigation/repair. He said that there might be a problem with its "configuration". I did not ask him then what this "configuration" problem was about, but now I guess he was referring to a firmware upgrade.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1990
Registered: Dec-03
HAJO,

Many thanks. It would be really helpful if you could post back on what happens. I really do not wish to take mine back, but, if I do, it should be sooner, not later. As I said, the T533 in the showroom had the same problem with that one disc.

I also wonder if you could take a minute to say which DVD-A discs were the problem. Any particular record label, for example?
 

HAJO
Unregistered guest
John A,

The first disc I had a problem with was from Silverline records, one in their series "From the front row", featuring Iggy Pop. I changed it for another copy but the problem remained. Finally I got the money back. The second disc was Santanas "Supernatural", which I sent together with my unit so that the error could be tracked easier. In fact the T533 in the the showroom also had the same problem with this disc. A third disc works most of the time but not always, it is "Machine Head" by Deep Purple (RHINO). Since I have only purchased twelve DVD-Audio discs, problems with three out of twelve discs speak in favor of a faulty player.

It might take a couple of weeks before I get my player back, but I will inform you of the results.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1995
Registered: Dec-03
Thank you, HAJO. I will get a Silverline disc. My failure rate so far is one out of fifteen; too small to make my own conclusion. I, too, will report back. My NAD dealer is out of it; does not know what DVD-A is at all.
 

Unregistered guest
John A.
The DVD-A discs that did not play on the T533 were "The Flaming Lips- Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots 5.1" by Warner and "Bach: Organ Spectacular Ton Koopman" by Teldec. My dealer too don't know much about DVD-A, and has just given up. He has refunded my T533 completely and I think I'm going to get a Pioneer multidisc player. It would be sad to see it go, I got the Silver colour to match my T753 but now it would have to go. Sob.
 

HAJO
Unregistered guest
My dealer received the player from NAD a few days ago, with the comment that there is no solution to this problem! I was offered to trade it in for a Denon DVD 1400, which I did. Now I can play all of my DVD-A discs without any problem. Too bad that the T533 had this problem, because I was otherwise very pleased with it.
 

Unregistered guest
Hi!
I recieved my NAD T533 today, and everything worked fine untill I tried my new bought dvda disc. I got the same problem as John A, the disc would not play att all, it recognise it as a dvda disc, the play icon pops up on my tv and after a (a pretty long) while the display on the dvd player shows chapter 1 title 1 (time:-) 00:00 and then nothing more.. the dvdplayer would hardly respond to my actions (it works very slowly if push stopp it takes several minutes for it to stop/display stop). This disc is also a warner disc, "Stone temple pilots - core". The disc will play fine on my old dvd-v player (philips 711). I cannot tell if the disc is faulty or if theres something wrong on my NAD player, I'll visit my dealer tomorrow. Very annoying to as I've been looking forward to dvda experience, I hope someone could report a solution to this problem (if there is a NAD-(some-)dvda compability problem).

If someone has a copy of the STP-core dvda and a NAD T533 player (or could try it on that player) would you please report how it works.
 

Lim
Unregistered guest
John A.
The DVD-A discs that did not play on the T533 were "The Flaming Lips- Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots 5.1" by Warner and "Bach: Organ Spectacular Ton Koopman" by Teldec. My dealer too don't know much about DVD-A, and has just given up. He has refunded my T533 completely and I think I'm going to get a Pioneer multidisc player. It would be sad to see it go, I got the Silver colour to match my T753 but now it would have to go. Sob.
 

lobotommy
Unregistered guest
Went to my dealer today and tested my dvda record, on a denon 2200 dvd/dvda player and the record worked fine. Then I tried it on a NAD T533 and it turned out to also work fine. Seems like it something wrong with my NAD T533, and the dealer would have mine replaced.
My player is region free modified but the dealer said it would not make any difference.
John A and the rest of you with NAD T533 - dvd-audio trouble: are your players modified in any way (like mine for example)?
 

Unregistered guest
I had trouble buying a the T533 at NAD authorised dealers in Manchester & Huddersfield (UK) in July. I ordered the T533 via the Huddersfield dealer and it arrived promptly. I purchased 8 DVD's 3 refused to play, but after clicks and noises from the unit, powering up and down they would all play. It is now back with NAD who have identified the drive as faulty - delays in shipping spares from Japan - awaiting its return! I bought the T533 because it supports DVD A, but the day after it arrived the local CD store cleared its shelves of DVD A due to lack of sales. I think NAD need all the feedback they can get to reslove problems.
 

Arf
Unregistered guest
John A:
Been reading your posts and appreciate your insights. I recently bought the T763 and T533 combo, but don't think I'm getting the most out of it yet. I have only a TOS cable going to the receiver, but see from above that more cables are needed to benefit from DTS and DVD-A. I don't have any DVD-A yet, but am interested in getting the most out of my DVD movies, so what other cables should I be attaching?

Thanks for your help and I apologise in advance if I'm causing you to repeat yourself.

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2047
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks, guys. I have been away for about two weeks.

Yes. lobotommy, my T533 was made region-free by the dealer. I read that Warner is making DVDs that will not play on region-free players, and wonder whether this is the problem. That would be consistent with Lim's finding with The Flaming Lips, but would not explain the problem with the Teldec Organ Spectacular. I will try to get hold of the latter and will report back.

I guess someone in NAD knows what this is all about. I shall e-mail them when I have a little more time. AndyW, you are right, I always find NAD helpful, and they respond to my queries.

Arf, if you use TOS-link you are not getting DVD-A. There are six co-ax sockets on the back for 5.1 and you connect these to "Ext 5.1" inputs on the receiver. Three simple stereo, analogue interconnects will do fine. You will probably notice an improvement in Dolby Digital, too: by using the "Ext 5.1" analogue input you are using the player's DACs and processing instead of those in the receiver. You will hear nothing that way with DTS, though, because the player does not have a DTS decoder.

Just try any DVD-A disc, and compare Dolby with DTS and with true DVD-A. It is as clear as day which is the best.
 

low
Unregistered guest
"Just try any DVD-A disc, and compare Dolby with DTS and with true DVD-A. It is as clear as day which is the best."-- John A

D a m n true!
thanks for your amazing+continuously useful info.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2055
Registered: Dec-03
You're welcome, low.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 605
Registered: Aug-04
John A

Welcome back. I trust your trip was enjoyable etc. Some people do have the life!

Regarding your comment about Warner making DVD's that won't play on region free players - our Denon 2900 is region free and we have had no such problems. Also the majority of our DVD-A's are from Warner. I don't think that's the problem.

Also, I noticed the Frank Sinatra - Live At The Sands DVD-A is no longer available from our on-line dealer here. I wonder if that goes for everywhere?

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2059
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks, My Rantz. It was hectic.

I read that Warner has a way of blocking DVD playback on players that have been unofficially converted to be "region free". As is my T533. That may not apply to your Denon 2900. What nonsense it all is. I am also doubful whether this extends to DVD-A discs. I still have only that one DVD-A disc with the problem.

No DVD-V has refused to play. Region 1 or region 2; NTSC or PAL video; all no problem
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 608
Registered: Aug-04
John A

I can only think of the enormous loss of profits that Warner would be subjec to if they did block playback on region free players - there's millions of them. It doesn't make sense!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2061
Registered: Dec-03
MR,

From http://hometheaterinfo.com/dvd3.htm

"One new aspect of region coding is Region Code Enhancement (RCE) This is deigned by the studios to prevent viewing a Region One disc on a Region Free DVD player. It will not prevent watching the movie on a MultiRegion Player. The reason for this is to prevent people from the popular practice of hacking the player to be able to view all region discs. So far some Warner Bros, New Line, Columbia and now select MGM have this feature."

In my view, and I have stated this before, DVD regionalization is a scandal, just nak_d economic protectionism, and satisfying no technical requirement of the medium. In Europe, DVDs are far more expensive than in N. America, and there is no reason for this, except the industry can get away with it. Notice that with "RCE" the protected market is the N American one. As always. So much for free trade.

The various "digital rights agreements" mean that a player's manufacturer can only display the DVD logo, whether DVD-V or -A, if it agrees to the format approved by the licence holders, that is, the recording industry. When there is some diversity and competition, consumers are protected, to some extent. Unfortuately, the big players (Time-Warner is a big player) have monopolies on recording catalogues and much else, and can do what they like; people will go on buying work of certain artists, and if they are forbidded from buying a player that will play a less expensive version of the same disc, then they industry has them by the short and curlies.

When the same multinational consortium holds the licence for the format AND makes both players and discs, we should all be especially vigilant.

You know of whom I write, and have heard all this before!

What underlines my conspiracy theory is the fact that the content (the music files) is now essentially free of the medium that carries it. Instead of making good, value-for-money discs, the industry's response to the possibility of network transfer and copying is to try to protect the content, by encryption, so that consumers have no choice about what they do with the items they have bought.

By the way, MR, I have just installed an Apple "Airport Express" WiFi Bass Station at home. It cost less than US$100 I think. I have written about it on Teaching an old dog new tricks....

It seems to me the writing is on the wall, not just for the CD, but for all discs. Look at the phenomenal success of the iTunes Music Store (again; only in US - now extended to UK, France and Germany - the spread is a good indication of open societies and open economies, in my view [off topic]).

What the industry could be doing is pushing DVD-A, which offers sound quality that is far superior to CD, let alone MP3 and iTunes files. But extending network transfer to hi-res is only a question of time, and bandwidth, and most modern computers will already burn DVDs (CD had about 15 years before consumers could jsut make their own). I am sure "the industry" knows all this, which must be part of their reluctance to push a really good product (DVD-A) when they've actually got one. Also, they are surely aware that the mass market is let by convenience, not sound quality. They just say "perfect sound" and, now, "CD-quality" and people believe them, instead of listening and deciding for themselves.

It is a strange old World...
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 611
Registered: Aug-04
John A

Thanks for the info. I did not realise there was a difference between "region free" and "multi region" the latter being what our 2900 has.

I read your info on 'old dogs' - yes interesting. Also of interest is the final okay for dual disc (DVD-A) which has been supported by Sony among other record companies? Strange old world indeed!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2064
Registered: Dec-03
MR,

Thanks. No, I did not know the difference, either, until I read that.

As we have agreed, we live in interesting times. I have no idea where it will all end, but networking and downloading files seems irresistable, if you look at the take-up of MP3 and iTunes.

I write as a full-qualified Old Dog, at one with Jan Vigne on all except the extra value of 5.1 for music. I think I shall go and play an LP.

BTW a family issue: two teenage children are wowed by being able to play the iTunes they have on my laptop, without wires, over any of our stereo systems. Whereas Mrs A cannot see the point, and thinks we are all deranged.
 

lobotommy
Unregistered guest
went to my dealer today to recieve my new nad T533, but just to check I tried my (warner) dvda record at the store before I left (if would be a region free trouble as mensioned). we tried the disc after he had modified it and it wouldnt work, we also tried another dvda disc and wouldnt either work (I dont know what company was behing it)... and my patiance and expactaions went down the sewer :p so the dealer offer me a region modified denon dvd-1400, we tried the disc and it worked perfectly. so I ended up buying it instead.
And I must say i am really happy with, the cd/music-playback details seems clearer to me then the nad player (I use a NAD T761 reciever) but the sound seems a little farther away than the nad plyer but yet clearer and more balanced in total frequency range. The nad t533 sond feels more closer and more intense but I believe it gets a little to intense so it messes up compared to the denon player. (note that when I critisize here you have concider that this is minor differences, what I mean is that they are both great music players but the denon seems more balanced and clearer). I havent really compared the picture quality difference so I have no coments on that part yet (they seem pretta equal so far).
 

arf
Unregistered guest
John A:
Thanks for your helpful reply to my previous post about wires for DVD-A playback.

I'm interested in this multi-region/region free discussion currently going on. From what I understand, a T533 hacked to be region free will not play many new DVDs. Though I have many European DVDs from a couple of years ago, I am reluctant to install the hack on my player if I won't be able to play anything new on it.

This presupposes that I have the hack, which to my dismay I have 'til now been unable to find.

Any thoughts?

AA
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2081
Registered: Dec-03
arf,

"a T533 hacked to be region free will not play many new DVDs"

I do not think it is that bad. All our DVD-Vs (including region 1s) play fine on a region 2 T533 adjusted to be region-free. The only "no-play" DVD is one DVD-A from Warner (Live at the Sands). I am doubtful it has anything to do with regionalization; there is none on DVD-A discs, reputedly. We have had a region-free T532 for a while and that will play anything, no problem, just not DVD-A at all. We have a couple of other reports, including the post from lobtommy (thanks!) on the T533. I do not honestly know what is going on, and have no time at the moment to investigate further. NAD shoudl get its act together on this. Ask you dealer if you need a region-free player. If it causes problems, it can be reversed, it is just a software adjustment.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2137
Registered: Dec-03
Berlin Philharmonic/Simon Rattle playing Mahler 5th Symphony and Adés "Aslya" on the EMI 7243 4 90325 9 0. The DVD-V is fine. The DVD-A refuses to play, just like "Live at the Sands".

I have e-mailed EMI and NAD but no response yet. I shall report back.

If anyone is thinking of buying an NAD T533, I do recommend you get one of the discs on our growing hit list and take it along for a demonstration.

It seems the NAD T533 lacks feature that different disc manufacturers take for granted. E.g. Naxos says you should set your player to either DVD-A or DVD-V: can't be done.

EMI says on the box:

"In DVD-Audio players (two options, automatically following the loudspeaker setting in the player's setup menu):
PPCM (uncompressed MLP) 48 kHz/24-bit 5.1 Surround Sound
PPCM (uncompressed MLP) 48 kHz/24-bit 5.1 Stereo"

You can't do that, either. Mind, the phrase "5.1 Stereo" does not inspire confidence in EMI.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 717
Registered: Aug-04
John A

The Denon DVD-2900 has a setting for Video or audio. This makes the desired medium the default when a disc is loaded. If set to video and a DVD-A is loaded, then the video section will play automatically. And of course the opposite applies. Just thought you should know - maybe NAD should also.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2165
Registered: Dec-03
My Rantz,

Yes, that's one up to Denon.

Having said that, discs with DVD-V and DVD-A on the same side were never part of the original specification. I have a bunch of single-sided Naxos discs where it is impossible to play the DVD-V tracks on the T533 even if you want to: it is DVD-A or nothing. This makes some sense for audio only. The EMI Mahler has video on the DVD-V, but the DVD-V and DVD-A are separate discs. So at least I can get the performance in DTS. It is exceptionally good, by the way, if you like that sort of stuff.

I guess the DVD-A disc format has not settled down to an agreed standard yet.

All,

I had a prompt and courteous reply from NAD, suggesting a firmware upgrade:-

It has been noted that there is some difficulty in playing certain DVD AUDIO discs that contain CPPM protection. There is a firmware upgrade that can be performed on your unit to assist with this.

Back to the dealer. Sigh. At least I also get:


Should you have any further difficulties, please do not hesitate to contact me again. Best regards


This is from NAD HQ. Try e-mailing some other makers...
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 718
Registered: Aug-04
Good luck with it John. I still feel Nad had rushed a DVD-A player onto the market to catch up with the competition. I may be wrong but I am sure the protect process has been in place for some time now with DVD-A.

But issues are across the board it seems. You might recall that Diana Krall's Live In Paris would not select DD5.1 or DTS5.1 from the disc menu. I found I could press the audio button on the remote and select any option from there. But Denon had a software fix for that particular DVD-V alone to fix the selection from the disc menu. Strange but true!

It's good you got a reply from NAD. From other threads the hiss issues in some receivers seem to be still causing grief.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2167
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks, MR. Yes, I recall your previous story with the Denon 5900.

Small update is that the NAD rep reports that my serial number is of a player that will need the firmware update. It's only six months old, supporting your case about a rush job.

Now it will take some time to get over to the dealer.

I must say I cannot fault NAD customer service, yet again. So far. No reply from EMI. I think this must be a new copy protection system. The disc is labelled 2003. My other EMI DVD-A discs are older. I'll look out for the hiss threads, see if there is anything I can contribute. Basically my system has superb sound, and I would not swap it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 720
Registered: Aug-04
John A

"Basically my system has superb sound, and I would not swap it."

I bet it has - and I wouldn't either. If it ain't broke, why fix it? But John, if the record companies keep changing or bringing out new CP systems, then wouldn't all players be affected?

Just a thought.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2170
Registered: Dec-03
My Rantz,

..if the record companies keep changing or bringing out new CP systems, then wouldn't all players be affected?

Good point. It is a bit like compatibility of computer software and hardware, I expect, with "firmware" somewhere in between; software that cannot be modifed by the user. System upgrades etc. can lose you the functionality of programs that no longer run. When you've found a "patch" to fix that, password and user i.d. for the program may no longer be recognised. It was great when things just worked, or not, for some real reason, not because of cack-handed attempts to control who uses them. I don't see that life is going to get any simpler through adoption of digital technology.... This seems to be a talking point on other threads.
 

Arno
Unregistered guest
Long time since I've been here, but visit to tell you guys that I was the winner of the "Right Analogue Channel Disaster". Rather annoyed at the moment, but will take it to teh dealer tommorrow. It is still under guarentee.

Will report back later.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2326
Registered: Dec-03
Arno,

I find that problem sometimes crops up when playing a CD after a DVD, and goes away after restart.

Update on firmware upagrade.

My dealer has contacted NAD and expects to be able to perform the upgrade in an hour or so sometime this week. It will be a nuisance having to take the player in, but it could be worse.

The dealer has my Mahler 5 DVD-A on loan and he found it would not play on the other T533s in stock. He seems keen to get to the bottom of this, and offered to exchange the player for another model if things do not work out, or if I so choose.
 

Arno
Unregistered guest
John A,

Yip, This morning, Right channel is back. Will in anycase go have a chat to dealer. (Armed with a link to this thread)
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2332
Registered: Dec-03
Arno,

Good for you. Please report back. I shall do the same. These are clearly "known issues", at least to NAD. And to us!
 

Arno
Unregistered guest
Not surprisingly, the local importers are not aware of this common prob (Or so they say). I refered them to this site. T533 was handed in to be taken to importers.

Patiently awaiting........
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2394
Registered: Dec-03
Arno,

Me too. If my dealer can fix it on the spot, it will be a relief. I will let you know. Also whether it corrects the R channel drop-out on CD.

After all this I would not wish to put anyone off. The sound quality is exceptional, for the price. I would expect NAD has sorted these problems out on models currently shipping.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jonmoon

Post Number: 122
Registered: Dec-03
John, I just got the T533. I don't have any DVD-A discs to check it out. Do you set the DVD-A to a different assigned input on the receiver? I would assume that is how it is done. Any suggestions on a really nice DVD-A disc to break in the system?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2399
Registered: Dec-03
Jonathan,

Do you set the DVD-A to a different assigned input on the receiver?.

Yes, "Ext 5.1". Or "Ext 5.1/7.1". In my case that gives much better Dolby AC-3 5.1, too, also PCM stereo on DVD-V discs that have it.

Any suggestions on a really nice DVD-A disc to break in the system?

Everything depends on what sort of music you are into. www.highfidelityreview.com has some reviews.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2438
Registered: Dec-03
Phoned my dealer's yesterday. They say they cannot perform the "firmware upgrade" yet because "NAD sent the wrong CD". Also they hope to receive the right one next week.

This tells me several things. One is that it is a really software issue, like region coding, and I could probably do it myself, if allowed to. Another is that NAD does not just make files available for download, even by dealers. I cannot see why.

This copy protection business is a total waste of time. Do manufacturers actually want owners to be able to play discs, or not?

Will report back when there is some news, and I have got over my irritation.

Jonathan:-

There are some very nice, cheap "classical" DVD-As from Naxos, as discussed above (www.naxos.com). I find the balance is improved on some of them (such as the piano concertos mentioned, recorded in Moscow) by turning the centre channel off completely in "5.1 Audio Set-up", and also by turning down the sub-woofer channel.

For other types of music, I have not seen a budget DVD-A label, or anything at less than premium price. But, even if classical is not your usual thing, something like the Naxos Holst "The Planets" will give you an inexpensive sonic treat, and show how good DVD-A is, even at less than highest resolution. That one is at 24-bit 44.1 kHz but still sounds great. It has very good balance, so one can just load the disc and press "play".
 

Silver Member
Username: Jonmoon

Post Number: 139
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks John, although I like hard edged pop music, I enjoy all sorts of music and certainly think this format is more for classical, vocal and jazz. (The old question about what light the cd format would shed on Twisted Sister) I found one DVD-A and got it going. Very nice indeed. Thanks for all your help.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2471
Registered: Dec-03
You are welcome, Jonathan.

You might like to try the DVD-A-type connection to the receiver (ext 5.1) when playing stereo CDs, and other sources, too. I connected the stereo analogue audio out to my receiver's L and R channels of the "Ext 5.1" input. It seems to me this gives the same connection as from the 5.1 L and R channels, and there is some gain in resolution compared with using the receiver input marked "CD", at least on my system. I think the T533 is a pretty good CD player, into the bargain.
 

Unregistered guest
Hi

I seem to have lost the Progressive Scan option on the NAD T533 from my menu. Has anyone else had this problem? If so, what is the solution?

Thanks in advance.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2490
Registered: Dec-03
Ripclaw,

I think it is on N. American NTSC video standard models only, although it does not say that in the manual. I have a European (PAL/NTSC) unit and the "progressive scan" option is not available.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jonmoon

Post Number: 146
Registered: Dec-03
John A, any trouble with bass management. I am finding a bit too much bass with the DVD A format. I get some subwoofer rumblings even during quiet passages.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2493
Registered: Dec-03
Jonathan, I have not encountered that problem. Dolby Digital with digital out has it, but not DVD-A, nor DD with analogue out from the T533.
 

Ripclaw
Unregistered guest
John A., thanks for the feedback. Does this mean that I won't be able to play NTSC DVDs in progressive scan? I'm in South Africa, so I also have the European version of the T533.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2495
Registered: Dec-03
Ripclaw,

Does this mean that I won't be able to play NTSC DVDs in progressive scan?

I think so, but am not 100% sure. I have a number of region 1 NTSC-only discs. They play just fine. I will check. I think I recall you do not really need progrssive scan with PAL, so they probably decided to leave it off the machine for sale outside region 1. There was a review of the player that might help.

Audio Enz Magazine's review of the NAD T533 - October 2004 issue (link provided originally by "Ojophile")
 

Arno
Unregistered guest
Got my T533 back today after plenty of patience and promises by dealer.

Officially reported back that they had to replace "all the pc boards" inside.

Nothing about firmware upgrade. But have to add, I lost all confidence in the local importers in SA.

But at least she is plying perfectly again.
 

Arno
Unregistered guest
O, one more thing.

While the T533 was gone fishing, I bought my first Audio DVD. Fleetwood Mac: Rumours. Busy listening. FABULOUS.
 

Arno
Unregistered guest
O no. Not yet back 12 hours and same problem is back.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2580
Registered: Dec-03
Arno,

Sorry to learn this. I recommend you contact NAD:

nad@nadelectronics.com

I, too, am stalled on this issue, having heard nothing from the dealer.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2659
Registered: Dec-03
NAD and regional distributor agree that I should not carry out the "firmware upgrade" myself; I must go through the dealer.

Dealer is busy, but congratulates me on "putting fire" into NAD who have sent them the correct CD by express mail. Dealer "hopes" he can do it same day. Tomorrow. Will report back.

Arno; I recommend you keep up the pressure!
 

New member
Username: Paulof

Post Number: 7
Registered: Nov-04
I have NAD T533 and T763 and I notice a ~10dB difference when switching from Ext 7.1 to Digital on pure stereo? My Ext7.1 plays a lot louder than if I use the coax DVD input and seems much better sounding.
Even on movies switching to Ext7.1 and letting the DVD DACs do all the job sounds to me louder and better, which doesn't make much sense to me since both are from same brand and same "price" level but anyway it's my first decent setup...
But 10dB difference is really a lot. Anyone noticing this also?
(left the same post on the receiver section also)
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2660
Registered: Dec-03
PF,

Yes, I get a similar result by choosing "Ext 5.1" on my older T760 receiver. It is better than any digital input, and better than the "CD" input. That goes for other sources, not just the T533 DVD player.
 

Anonymous
 
Hi everyone! First of all John A - many thanks for the insightful postings on Ecoustics - you really add valur to this forum! I have just ordered my T533 (it was a toss up between the Denon 2910, T562 or T533 - no HDMI/DVI input on my projector, so the Denon was discounted, eventually the DVD-A availability tipped the scale to the T533) just to find out a few hours after the fact that the T533 has problems with DVD-A. Any way to find out the firmware version of the unit I'll be receiving? Which firmware rev. is the latest? Did this update solve the DVD-A issue?
 

Anonymous
 
Hi everyone! First of all John A - many thanks for the insightful postings on Ecoustics - you really add valur to this forum! I have just ordered my T533 (it was a toss up between the Denon 2910, T562 or T533 - no HDMI/DVI input on my projector, so the Denon was discounted, eventually the DVD-A availability tipped the scale to the T533) just to find out a few hours after the fact that the T533 has problems with DVD-A. Any way to find out the firmware version of the unit I'll be receiving? Which firmware rev. is the latest? Did this update solve the DVD-A issue?
 

New member
Username: Frank_l

Post Number: 1
Registered: Dec-04
OK .. so I registered quickly ... same posting with login now ...
Hi everyone! First of all John A - many thanks for the insightful postings on Ecoustics - you really add valur to this forum! I have just ordered my T533 (it was a toss up between the Denon 2910, T562 or T533 - no HDMI/DVI input on my projector, so the Denon was discounted, eventually the DVD-A availability tipped the scale to the T533) just to find out a few hours after the fact that the T533 has problems with DVD-A. Any way to find out the firmware version of the unit I'll be receiving? Which firmware rev. is the latest? Did this update solve the DVD-A issue?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2664
Registered: Dec-03
Frank,

Yes, I took my T533, purchased in April, back to the dealer yesterday, and they fixed it during the day. It is really a software issue, connected with CPPM copy protection on certain DVD-A discs. The disc I had that did not play had a very small "CP" logo on the box. So the dealer eventually go the right CD to do the update. I suppose they do not let owners do it because they would have access to the encryption keys code.

NAD could confirm that my unit need the firmware upgrade just from the serial number. I assume current production has caught up with this problem. Personally, I hold the recording companies responsible for all this, but that is another issue.

Apart from the outstanding performance, detailed in the archived part of this thread, I can once again vouch personally for NAD customer service. A lot depends on the dealer and regional distributor. If you end up having to e-mail NAD, they respond, and get the other people activated. That's something. The T533 is their first DVD-A player, so they were probably caught out with copy protection updates on discs.

Thanks for the compliments, Frank! I am thinking of getting a projector in a month or so.

Hope Arno gets sorted out.
 

New member
Username: Frank_l

Post Number: 2
Registered: Dec-04
Thanks John - I just keep my fingers corssed that I end up with a late firmware model. I'm in Northern Ontario, Canada and unfortunatley the nearest dealer is 350 clicks away ;o))) - so back and forth to the dealer is not the easiest for me. I'm using an Epson 53C projector - it has a pretty decent picutre in spite of the S-video hook up I'm currently using. I have just ordered the SVGA to component video cable to "upgrade" to component - progressive scan is available on the T533 through the component video port ... will publish my findings. I'm picking up my new T773 receiver today too so I'm pretty excited about the "newbies" in my line up.
 

Unregistered guest
Cable TV, Mitsubishi TV older model, Onkyo dual tape deck, Technics CD player, Panasonic VCR, Denon stereo receiver. I just purchased a Panasonic VCR/DVD Combo. The intention was to discard the original VCR or consign to another room. However, it has a timer feature superiot to the new one and since it still works fine we wish to continue its use and only use the DVD player on the new unit. Making the connections work has failed. We do not have a cable box. the cable is on a splitter, one connection to the TV and the second to the stereo receiver. Any suggestions?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2668
Registered: Dec-03
Frank,

Thanks. If it is any use, my player's serial number is L3YT53301180.

From this forum, it seems you can be confident of NAD customer service, particularly in Canada. It was a pain for me to have to take it back. The copy-protected disc I had to do something about is described above on "Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 01:13 pm". There is a DVD-V disc in the box too. Now I can play the DVD-A disc, I can confirm the incredible sound quality of this EMI DVD-A 5.1 recording. HiFi does not get better than that, in my opinion, and on my system.

Wayne, you have posted in an unrelated thread. There will be several more relevant ones on the forum. Good luck.
 

New member
Username: Frank_l

Post Number: 3
Registered: Dec-04
In the interim ... my first imperssions with the T773 .. wow ... pretty awesome! I use B&W DM-604S3 for front, CC6 center and DM-602 rears. Source is a Marantz 4000 CD player. The sole reason for the receiver upgrade was that my 'old' tried and trusted Yamha HTR5250 was shutting down on over current when listening to music past 11 o'clock..

So after powering up the unit I was wondering about hum and hiss having read a lot of complaints on this forum - well - I found no hum and the hiss is not worse then my Yammi or my pet MOS-FET amp I built a few years back.
In terms of sound quality (using the T773's DAC) very good resolution, accurate and fast. Plenty guts ... got the furniture and X-mas decor vibrating quite badly - actually the 6x9m living room is a tad on the small size for this rig ... watch this space ... ;o))
 

New member
Username: Frank_l

Post Number: 5
Registered: Dec-04
Gents - since this forum discusses DVD-A (even if in relation to the T533 player ;o)) - I searched Amazon.com for DVD-A and struggling get search results in a structured manner (i.e. alphabetic order of performers in DAVD-A format) ... are there any other sites that sell/specialize on DVD-A???
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2670
Registered: Dec-03
Great stuff, Frank.

Record shops have mostly not caught up. They carry DVD-A discs but do not know under which category to file them.

There is a list of DVD-A disc labels, with links, plus reviews on http://www.highfidelityreview.com/
 

New member
Username: Frank_l

Post Number: 8
Registered: Dec-04
Hi guys - so far I've listened to one DVD-A that was available in the local record store (small town in Northern Ontario) - a Fleetwood Mac Best of kinda DVD-A and it's pretty impressive. Watching music DVDs (95% of the time!) I always set the receiver to stereo - multi channel and the video seems to sort of distract from the essence which is music.

With DVD-A having no picture the multi channel is more tolerable (right now that is - as time goes by probably will even enhance the experience).

In any case - a Q I posted on another thread regarding the T533 and T773 combo:

I thought DVD-A is only output on ther 5+1 channel analog outputs ... so bought the cables to connect to receiver .. but before hooking up gave it a try through the optical port .. and guess what - it's working!!!! Any comments? Sem suggested that it may be a DTS layer on the disc???

 

Bronze Member
Username: Paulof

Portugal

Post Number: 19
Registered: Nov-04
Frank,
Most DVD-A support "lower" resolution formats like DTS or DD, it's up to you to select what you want on the DVD configuration menu.
If you didn't do this you might be listening to Dolby Digital through the analog outputs! And not real DVD-A 24bit, check that!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_l

Post Number: 11
Registered: Dec-04
PF

Thanks - will check it out.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2716
Registered: Dec-03
Frank,

I agree with PF. Also, apart from bringing true DVD-A, the analogue inputs are better for everything, on my receiver at least. Except DTS, which you do not get at all. It is too bad NAD skimped with on-board DTS processing in the T533; the Dolby Digital 5.1 is miles better, on my system, if the T533 is allowed to do the processing.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_l

Timmins, On, Canada

Post Number: 12
Registered: Dec-04
John A

I tried to play a Zone 2 DVD with the T533 with no success. I saw that this topic was covered some time ago. Have you managed to convert your player to region free? Or multi-region? or both ? lol - I still have a 2 year old Shinsonic (!!??) player that plays any DVD and outputs it in NTSC but it's very low quality (both physical and audio/video quality) so I'd like to mothball it.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2733
Registered: Dec-03
Frank,

I asked for "region-free" and the dealer did it when I bought the unit. It takes them two minutes. It is probably like the DVD-A copy protection issue, which is that all it requires is a simple piece of programming anyone could do. If he is allowed the information. Which he is not. I think this what is meant by "firmware".

What to do? Well, ask the dealer. You said he is 350 clicks away. He will not be allowed to tell your how to do it yourself, claiming you will get it wrong, it will void warranty etc. You will get the same story from the distributor and NAD. It is hard not to feel insulted. Impasse. In other protection rackets, a quiet bribe usually does the trick, so I am told.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_l

Timmins, On, Canada

Post Number: 18
Registered: Dec-04
John A and others .. question about T533 .. when I select DTS on the player for output format (the DVD has DD and DTS available), my receiver stops decoding - i.e. no sound from the unit. It's hooked up through fibre to the T773. Anyone with similar experience? Fix?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2765
Registered: Dec-03
Frank,

Assuming the receiver is Ok; make sure your have selected the correct setting for "Digital Audio out" on the player. From memory I think "Stream/PCM" gives both DD and DTS, whichever is selected from the on-screen menu on the disc. DTS is PCM; DD is not.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Paulof

Portugal

Post Number: 22
Registered: Nov-04
Frank,

Could it be that your receiver is using the External 7.1 connection? If that's the case then it's normal since the 533 doesn't decode DTS.
If indeed you have on the reciver display "DVD" (and not Ext.7.1) then try to switch the source on the remote (eg VCR) and then back to DVD. It happened to me once or twice something similar which I presume (not sure) to be some "confusion" on the receiver as to which input is being used at that point of time, switching to another source and back again solved the problem.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_l

Timmins, On, Canada

Post Number: 19
Registered: Dec-04
Thanks guys - will check the setup of the T533. I have the DVD-A outputs connected to the 7.1 input on the reciever and have a fibre for DVD audio. The reciever is also correctly configured to associate the fibre input with the DVD A/V - so it has to be a setting in the T533
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blazer

Post Number: 33
Registered: Feb-04
Question: Will a cd played on a T533 sound better or worse than if it were played on a C542? I'd rather just use the T533 for both DVD and CD playback but if the C542 makes a huge difference I would want to consider it for CD playback only.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2815
Registered: Dec-03
Blazer,

All I can say in reply is that I use the T533 as a CD player and am very pleased with it. I doubt if any difference with the C542 is "huge". If you can make the direct comparison yourself, please report back. It will be a question for most people who decide on the T533 for playing DVD-Audio discs.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blazer

Post Number: 36
Registered: Feb-04
John A.,
How do you play DTS DVD-A discs in your T533? I thought it only has a DD decoder?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2818
Registered: Dec-03
Blazer,

With DVD-A discs I choose DVD-A. With DVD-V discs I use an optical cable to the receiver (NAD T760) which has a DTS decoder. The Dolby Digital AC-3 decoding in the T533 is miles better than that in the T760 receiver. It would have been good if NAD had included on-board DTS decoding in the T533. Whether that would be a big improvement, too, I do not know. But it would have allowed use of the six-channel analogue outputs in place of digital optical output.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blazer

Post Number: 37
Registered: Feb-04
I guess what I'm asking John is if your DVD-A disc has a DTS soundtrack would you be able to play it on your T533 using the analog outs? My guess is no you'd have to use the digital outs in which case you'd be losing the high res advantage. Am I right in concluding then that the T533 will only play DD DVD-A discs in high res? Why the heck wouldn't NAD then include a DTS decoder? Regular DVDs can be decoded externally if hooked up to a receiver that has a DTS decoder as most do these days but what about playing DVD-A DVDs? Many titles are in the DTS format which many people prefer. Am I missing something? Thanks
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2821
Registered: Dec-03
Blazer,

if your DVD-A disc has a DTS soundtrack would you be able to play it on your T533 using the analog outs?

No. Your guess is correct.

Am I right in concluding then that the T533 will only play DD DVD-A discs in high res?

Yes. That is correct.

Why the heck wouldn't NAD then include a DTS decoder?

I could speculate about digital format rights agreements with Dolby Labs (which approves DVD-A but regards DTS, rightly, as serious competition). But I have no evidence to support that.

but what about playing DVD-A DVDs? Many titles are in the DTS format which many people prefer.

DVD-A plays by default and there is nothing you can do about that, as far as I can find.

It is a mark against the T533, no question. Having said that, hybrid DVD-A/DVD-A discs were not part of the original DVD-A disc specification, so maybe NAD has been caught out by subsequent developments, as with the CCPM copy protection issue discussed above. Whether DTS is omitted to encourage people to use DVD-A or DD for DVD-V, I do not know.

In practice, I personally do not find these things a problem. True DVD-A, when available, is the preferred format. But it would be good to have the choice, I agree. I think most other players give you that.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blazer

Post Number: 39
Registered: Feb-04
Hi John,

"DVD-A plays by default and there is nothing you can do about that, as far as I can find."

Perhaps I don't understand the DVD-A format. I was under the impression that DVD-A discs only came in two versions; DD and/or DTS. Am I understanding you to say that DVD-A is a format in itself? I'm interpreting your statement to mean that a DVD-A player doesn't have to have either a DD or DTS decoder to play DVD-A discs when you say "DVD-A plays by dfault." I really appreciate your dialogue John.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2824
Registered: Dec-03
Blazer,

Dolby Digital 5.1 (also known as "AC-3") and DTS are compting formats for DVD-Video discs.

I once thought that a "DVD-Audio" disc was just a disc with audio, no video, and that it was in one or other of these formats.

Not so. I learned it here. There is another format, called "DVD-Audio",also known as "DVD-A", which carries audio only, and is encoded in "Pulse Code Modulation" ("PCM"), the same as CD, but at higher resolution, and allows more channels than CD, up to 5.1. It can also be compressed to give the same sound quality, but using less disc space, using something called "Meridian Lossless Packing" or "MLP".

If it is of interest, I found this out here on the thread What does "DVD-audio" mean here?.

There are also some links to descriptions of the format on the archived section of this thread (scroll to the top of the page) and on Twilight of the Compact Disc.

I bought my NAD T533 because it delivers this true DVD-Audio.

Hope this helps. The terminology is a mess and half the reason why this new disc format is so little known, in my opinion. Nevertheless it is excellent. The best yet, for sound quality, in my view.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blazer

Post Number: 40
Registered: Feb-04
Thanks John,
So what you are saying is that if a DVD-A disc says DD on the label it has two formats? DVD-A for it's audio format and DD for it's video format? You can choose to listen to either. If you want to listen/see the DD format in high res your DVD-A player must have a DD decoder built in. If your player doesn't you can still run it to your receiver that has a DD decoder but won't get the high res benefit. Am I finally catching on? I found the following DVD-A description...

Release Date: December 10, 2002
Label: BMG Music
Total Time:
Format: DVD-Audio: 5.1-channel
Format: DVD-Video: Dolby Digital 5.1-channel
(Will play on DVD-Audio and DVD-Video players)
No Region Restrictions
NTSC
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2830
Registered: Dec-03
Blazer,

You've got it!

The "NTSC" is a video format, so that disc probably has some video footage, too, which may accompany the DD. With DVD-Audio you can get still pictures and a menu, but not video. DVD-A is all about the sound. Which is miles better than DD. Try it and see!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_l

Timmins, On, Canada

Post Number: 21
Registered: Dec-04
Blazer

re.- losing hi-res while playing DTS through optical port (" My guess is no you'd have to use the digital outs in which case you'd be losing the high res advantage.")

DTS is 5.1 (or 6.1 channel in the EX variety) with a 16 to 24 bit resolution and 48 to 96kHz sampling rate. DVD-A is 20-24bit 48 to 192kHz sampling rate. I doubt that anyone can percieve the sampling rate difference between DTS or DVD-A decoding! This also means that you may end up with a lower bit rate/sampling rate DVD-A than a DTS encoded musci material! Usualyy higher end DVD-As display the resolution and sampling rate on the case.

On another note - I have to be honest with you - I cannot hear any difference between DVD-A and even a normal CD. I got myself a Rotel RCD-1070 for CDs and I'm very happy with the sound quality through it's stereo line out driving a T-773 receiver. For movies/DVD-A I use the T-533 - with equally happy with quality ...
 

Arno
Unregistered guest
Who said : "Grown men don't cry"?

I feel like crying. After numorous calls to the local importers, I received a call yesterday that DVD is ready. I explained that I would not make it to pick it up, but will collect today.

Fine they say, gives them time to further "bench-test" the unit.

Arrived this afternoon and they report that the unit was behaving very good (So BTW, they reported that they did a chassis swot, ie, my chassis, complete other internals)

I asked to listen to unit, and guess what, no sound from RHS.

Tommorrow morn first thing I will have a chat with Zelda of the Local Importers, after which I will contact NAD international. Maybe I should have done it when John A suggested it.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
 

Arno
Unregistered guest
Spoke to Zelda.

They will now give me a spanky brand new machine.

Should have it not later than Monday.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2839
Registered: Dec-03
Good stuff, Arno!

As I said before, I think the right channel drop-out happens when playing a CD straight after a DVD. When it happened to me, powering off and then on again restored stereo CD. But it is still a fault.

Watch out for the CCPM copyright protection issue, too; some DVD-A discs will not play on some T533s. Maybe this is now fixed at production, but it could affect units in stock.
 

Arno
Unregistered guest
Hooked up and all is back to normal.

Now just hoping that same fate happens again.

Luckily, my 2 yr warrenty start from new again.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2873
Registered: Dec-03
I am currently using my NAD T533 in a stereo system, and I find that it is a limitation that one cannot choose two-channel if 5.1 is available on the DVD-A disc.

Also, I play Dolby Digital occasionally, using the analogue outputs direct to two stereo systems. It is a shame that DTS is not available in this set-up.

These considerations will probably not affect most users.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1517
Registered: Aug-04
John A

Can you not select 2 channel on the disc menu or change the default in the player set-up menu?

If not - NAD is BAD LOL!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2874
Registered: Dec-03
It seem to depend on the disc. The two-channel option seems to be invisible on the menu of some discs.

The default on the player seems to be to choose DVD-A 5.1 if it is available. Sometimes other formats are still an option; sometimes not.

But, when they are, the choice is only from the on-screen menu. There is no set-up menu to make the player behave like a DVD-V player and read the DVD-V tracks, or to choose two channel DVD-A in preference to 5.1.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1519
Registered: Aug-04
John

That's strange - seems NAD didn't do it's homework for their first hi-res player. If you select no to all other speakers except the mains does that provide a full 2 channel playback. I have seen some 5.1 movies without the 2 channel option and I figure these would play okay on a stereo kit.

May I ask why you left the Nad receiver etc abroad?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2875
Registered: Dec-03
My Rantz,

If you select no to all other speakers except the mains does that provide a full 2 channel playback

I have tried that and one excellent 5.1 DVD-A disc and it gives a very reverberant acoustic, as if the recording was made in a swimming baths. I guess the surround channels, which should give a reverberation from the back and sides of the recording venue, do not sound so good if that is sent to the mains. Also I guess that the two-channel from the disc (if I could get it) would sound better.

May I ask why you left the Nad receiver etc abroad?

Yes, of course. We packed a hired minibus with essentials and I decided the complete 5.1 system and turntable had to make way for other items. So I just brought the stereo system with the T533 in place of the T532 (left for movies over there), an old FM tuner, and a small, old TV. In any case, we have much smaller listening room than before. And less time to watch movies. The plan is to bring it all over eventually, with all our gear (books, LPs, some furniture, I hope the dog) when we have found somewhere bigger to live, here, and sold the old place. Also have a family member living there right now. It could take many months. No worries. Everything is better, and simpler. Touch wood. As you know, I have lashed out on huge speakers, however. I am reluctant to get rid of any of the old ones; they are my old friends. But no-one need nine speakers. Except Kegger, perhaps...
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1522
Registered: Aug-04
John

Thanks, I couldn't imagine you giving up that kit. Glad to hear you are still happy with the move, and I am pleased those quads are everything you hoped they'd be. I'd sure like to listen but there is no such animal lurking in any audio shop around here. Typical!

Cheers mate.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2877
Registered: Dec-03
My Rantz,

Thanks. One of the reviews that helped me make up my mind was from Australian HiFi - http://www.quad-hifi.co.uk/austquad.pdf (500 kB pdf file).

It is about the Quad 988, which is the current model. I bought the original Quad ESL 63, on which the 988 is based. Used. Refurbished. Warrantied. The 988s are out of my price league. But I have no doubt about the ESL 63s. One up-market dealer I spoke to said he hopes someone will trade some in, one day, so he can keep them himself. If you ever think of replacing your main speakers....

For me it is not completely rational. It is as if I finally bought that Jaguar E-type. This is off topic. More on another thread.

But the T533 is a good source for playing CDs on "the best speakers in the world", as I have heard them described, several times, independently.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1553
Registered: Aug-04
John

"the best speakers in the world" - I seen this written before. Oh yes ->

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3284%26item%3D57608474 01%26

Seriously, I'd still take the E-type LOL!
 

Silver Member
Username: John_s

Columbus, Ohio US

Post Number: 275
Registered: Feb-04
Here's a picture of me and my first ex-wife, (c. 1972):

Upload

He: I know they're used, but don't they sound great?
She: I can't live here anymore.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1555
Registered: Aug-04
LOL!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2881
Registered: Dec-03
JOHN and My Rantz,

Thanks! You are both referring to the Quad ESL 57 (pictured and on the e-Bay link). The ESL 63 replaced it in about 1983. Has better protection circuitry. I heard some ESL 57s once. Stunning. There are retro total nutcases out there who thing the ESL 57 is better. Who knows. I could not argue against that. I am not that brave. J. V. might know.

There is a repair kit maker in Perth, W.A.
http://www.eraudio.com.au/Kits/kits.html

Here is what seems to be a balanced appraisal:
http://www.audiophilia.com/hardware/quads.htm

The 63 was code-named "Fred" for "Full Range Electrostatic Design"

If one uses an active sub, I would think the 57 would deliver the goods.

JOHN,

You must have known it was not going to last. Mrs S is reading a magazine....

It was clever and cunning of you to wire the ejector-seat control into the amplifier.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_s

Columbus, Ohio US

Post Number: 276
Registered: Feb-04
John and MR:
Judging from the decor, that image (taken from Quad's website) was from the 50's. Notice he's listening to only one speaker--the horror!

Back in the 70's, I spent a lot of time listening to a friend's pair of 57's, with Quad electronics. It was my introduction to audio exotica. Your audiophilia review brought back some fond memories: the first thing that struck me was the Quad's "shocking transparency." I didn't notice their "beamy highs" requiring "constant scrimmages for the sweet spot." I also thought the 57's were true electrostatic dipoles, but according to Mr. Roger in this review, they weren't. I do agree that the Quad 57's ".....transparency is astonishing and something once heard, never forgotten."

The 57's tendancy to arc at high volume levels was real--you could actually see sparks behind the grill. At the time, my friend said it made him feel he was playing Russian roulette with the volume control.

If the 63's represent a significant improvement over the 57's, I can only imagine how good they are.

Yes I was much more clever and cunning then.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2883
Registered: Dec-03
JOHN S,

I would guess early-to-mid 60s for the photo. The screaming argument between the carpet, wallpaper and curtains suggests it. I have no idea how anyone could listen to music in a room like that, not with the lights on. Having said that, I suspect the fellow really had an E-type parked outside. I expect he soon after grew his hair and swapped the lady for one with ringlets and a long cotton dress. And they both changed the interior decor.

I think the ESL 63 is less prone to arcing than the ESL 57. I have had no problem with mine, even played very loud. The matched units I bought have consecutive serial numbers, were recently refurbished by Quad, and have a 12-month warranty. They are still not for the pampered youth of today; their overload protection can short out the amp if it supplies more that 40 V, so the manual says. If they blow my amp I shall just get another amp. A small price to pay. I would rather have the speakers take out the amp than vice versa.

Another difference between the two models is that the ESL 63s are genuine dipoles, so there is as much sound from the back as from the front. So one needs to take more care with positioning.

I do not find they are fussy about where one sits, contrary to the rumours. The stereo image is precise, detailed, and stays put, even when you move around the room - "holographic".

The ESL 63 sound is the best I have ever heard, except possibly a pair of ESL 57s I demo'd in about 1979. I more or less decided, then, that I would one day get Quad ESL speakers. Some things are worth waiting for. "Transparency", yes, that is a good word: it is as if there is no loudspeaker there at all; just the musicians.

The Quad 988 has been in production since 2000, and so can be auditioned. It is close to the ESL 63 design and sound, I read, but with a more rigid frame and newer components. It is also tilted back a little, to raise the axis. I do that on the ESL 63 with some coins under the front feet. As an alternative, one can also buy stands.

There is also a current Quad 989, which has extra panels to extend the bass response. But that was not part of Peter Walker's original design. I feel no lack of bass with the ESL 63.

Returning to the NAD T533, not many people interested in this player will be using it with Quad ESL speakers. What the new speakers reveal is a certain shrillness, or stridency, when I play CDs. Whether this is from the CD medium, the player, the solid-state amp I am using, or what, I do not know, and I will have to make some more comparisons. It is not distressing, and a price worth paying for the step up in clarity and detail the speakers bring.

One very satisfying source is live broadcast, stereo FM radio. It is so much like being there. Having said that, CDs played by the radio station do not have the stridency of my own copies, so it could well be the player. I will listen carefully to see if it is also present with DVD-A.

I wonder what happened to the first Mrs S. Perhaps she went on to resemble Dusty Springfield, and hosted Tupperware parties. She does not look like Anne Summers material, but who knows.
 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 189
Registered: Jan-05
LOL! I think it's the wallpaper not the speakers.

JohnA, I'm happy the Quads delivered the sound you were seeking. Waiting since 1979? Perseverence, pays off, it seems. Congratulations!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2888
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks, SM.

Life got in the way. I would not change the other priorities, like family, that zoomed in and displaced the speakers.

"Better late than never".

I wonder what happened to the happy couple in JOHN S's photo?

If they are still together, which I doubt, they will be old, childless, unhappy, and still looking at appalling wallpaper.

There, that feels better. Aesop had a fable about guys like me.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1571
Registered: Aug-04
Hey you guys - that's the same wall paper we have in our bedroom!

Naw - jest kidding of course.

John S - good to hear from you again, been a while. I trust/hope all has been okay in your camp? Not too much praise for the electrostats okay - there's some big heads around here and not much room for any more growth LOL!

Actually, the reality is - it's darn good to hear of someone finally hearing THAT sound - the one worth waiting for, the one that takes people to their special place and I am pleased it's happening for these guys. Well deserved.

Cheers

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2889
Registered: Dec-03
Cheers, MR.

Your wallpaper: not in the bedroom, surely? Presumably neither you nor the esteemed Mrs R is susceptible to migraine.

I thank JS, again, for the photo from his family album. I have just noticed the trip-wire. The 60s were fraught with danger.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_s

Columbus, Ohio US

Post Number: 277
Registered: Feb-04
The funny thing about that picture is that it actually looks like me and the first Mrs. S some thirty years ago....me minus the pipe and her as is. Never had a Jag parked outside, although the "cool" factor was great. A white one, I should think.

MR, thanks for the kind words. Yes, things are OK around here, especially after we've repaired a terminally ill computer. Took a while to find the right guru to help. Believe me, I've learned more about firewalls, anti-virus, adware and bots than I care to. I also learned that Windows ME was maybe not Microsoft's greatest achievement.

John A. & SM,
Yes congratulations are in order here. Audio nervana is difficult to achieve, and when it happens, it's worth crowing about. John, what distance are those speakers from the back wall? Could it be that FM sounds better because of some high end rolloff and/or compression in the broadcast? Do I see some valves in your future?

Sorry, I didn't get your Anne Summers reference. Australian feminist?

Anyway, cheers to all!

(We should be discussing this stuff on the old dogs thread. But I see it's being hijacked by a bunch of eleven-year-olds.)
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1587
Registered: Aug-04
It looks to me JS, from that photo, you seem to have had the same idea as that chap who bought his dream audio gear from his share of the takings from the heist in the "Italian Job" remake. I think it worked for him too . . . LOL!

BTW - Old Dogs and other threads appear to have been deloused.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2895
Registered: Dec-03
I think about 1963 plus-or-minus a couple of years. That's around forty years ago. JOHN, you were a bit behind the times! By 1973 it was everything was more ethnic, flared trousers and wide lapels were still the norm, and no-one would be seen dead in a roll-neck shirt. As for the lady... Shame the resolution is not high enough to date the magazine.

Certain sorts of housewives moved on from Tupperware parties to Anne Summers parties some time after the revolution. Some of the things they sold each other were still made of plastic. I cannot go into details. Try "Google".

My speakers? We are a bit short of space. They are angled in, the distance from the back wall about 2.5 feet near the side wall, 1.5 feet at the other edge. It may not be ideal, and I have little space to experiment at present, but they still sound amazing. Especially with the floor-length curtains drawn over the window between them. The imaging is extraordinary.

Thanks for the comments. Yes, I am thinking of a valve amp. But if the stridency came from the transistor amp, I would hear it on FM, too. It seems to be from CD only. The Armstrong transistor FM tuner is from 1979. Perhaps there were different filters in those days. I have its sister stereo integrated amp in a box in the old house, with one channel kaput. There is an Armstrong servicer in my local telephone directory. I will contact them when I get the amp back. I am interested to know if the sound is less harsh than on the 1992 Sony I am currently using. Armstrong amps were a sort of less expensive Quad, with complicated filters for different sorts of treble cut and slope.
 

Anonymous
 
FYI:

I recently bought a NAD T-533 (a week ago) and discovered that I was not able to play a DVD-A from Steely Dan. Called my dealer and received a firmware update per e-mail the following day. Now DVD-A seems to work perfectly.

My advice: Should you have any problems with DVD-A, go to the dealer and insist to receive a firmware upgrade and everything should be ok!
 

Unregistered guest
Hey John.. help me for a sec if you could. On my T533, I can use the menu to switch "digital out" to send 96kHz. My outboard DAC can accept 96kHz. DVD-A sounds good this way to me.

But from reading this, you are telling me that DVD-A IS NOT being sent to my DAC over coax.


....But PCM is being sent to the DAC... and its "96kHz." So I dont get it.... the player says its playing the DVD-A track, and I hear my DAC processing the signal with IT switched to 96kHz. So, assuming that DVD-A cant be sent over coax, then what is being sent to my DAC?

ps I only use 2 channel DVD-A tracks. I am aware that outboard DAC + 5.1 DVD-A sounds like garbage.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3158
Registered: Dec-03
Good point, Rob.

What about the disc? Is the player really playing DVD-A? If so, you have found a way around the problem! I guess you have also selected "PCM" from the menu "Digital Audio"?
 

rob gonzalez
Unregistered guest
the NAD refuses to play anything else but the DVD-A track if its a DVD-A AFAIK. Also, the DVD-A light is lit.

And yes, digital out is set to PCM.

The only other possibility is that the NAD could downconvert to 44k because the manual says that it will if it has to. I dont know what that means. How will I ever know? ::sigh::
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3160
Registered: Dec-03
Good point, again.

One could determine whether it is downsampling to 44 or 48 kHz with an oscilloscope. I also understand some amps have a light which comes on when they are getting true 96 kHz. I should think NAD technical would respond to a query, too.

I recall the manual is not very clear on these sorts of issues, and also says DVD-A is available only as analogue out because of "digital rights agreements". I found "Stereo PCM" on some DVD-V discs is at 96 kHz 24 bit, and gives wonderful sound, so much better than Dolby. DTS is also 96 kHz 24 bit, 5.1, and can be output in digital. Indeed, this is the only option with the NAD T533.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1898
Registered: Aug-04
John,

Sorry, but a correction: DTS 96/24 is present on a disc only when it is clearly stated as such. There are many DTS formats. Read:

http://www.dtsonline.com/consumer/

Click on Beginners guide to DTS technologies.

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3161
Registered: Dec-03
Thank you, My Rantz.

Very well, please read "DTS can also be 96 kHz 24 bit...." etc. in the above.

The point remains, though, that it can leave the player in digital form.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1901
Registered: Aug-04
Sorry John - where did you state: "DTS can also be 96 kHz 24 bit...."

You said: "DTS is also 96 kHz 24 bit . . . " emphasis on IS. Which is incorrect unless it is especially a DTS 96/24 disc or disc layer.

I wasn't telling you that the T533 has an onboard DTS decoder like some do - in fact I don't know any DVD players that have DTS 96/24 decoders, it seems only many receivers now do. I have a few DVD-A's with a DTS 96/24 layer and yes, in these cases the signals can only leave the player in digital form.

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3164
Registered: Dec-03
Mr Rantz, Thanks. Yes, I was changing "is" - which is incorrect, as you rightly say - to "can be".

If a player has on-board DTS decoding, doesn't that mean it outputs the signal in analogue form?
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1902
Registered: Aug-04
John

"If a player has on-board DTS decoding, doesn't that mean it outputs the signal in analogue form?"

Yes - but not the DTS 96/24 encoding which can only be passed through the digital co-ax or optical outs. I do not know thr reason why not.

If there are DVD players with onboard decoding for DTS 96/24 them I haven't seen them.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1903
Registered: Aug-04
John,

A disc labelled DTS 24/96 will play through a standard DTS decoder but the extension is ignored and standard DTS (24/48) is output. This makes DTS 24/96 backwards compatible and output either by analogue or digital, but the true 24/96 extension is only output through a S/P DIF port as I stated above.

More info is available on the website link I gave. Hope this helps clear things up.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3165
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks, My Rantz. I see. I wonder why it is; it makes little sense, technically. I wonder of there is some marketing strategy behind it.

When I first looked into DTS, there was no distinction between different kinds, and the spec said "up to 24/96" for 5.1. I still have the pdf somewhere. They were at pains to point out the superiority of DTS over Dolby Digital 5.1. I wish I knew what was going on with these various formats. And why the NAD T533 has on-board Dolby AC-3 (which everyone has already) but not DTS.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1904
Registered: Aug-04
I think for backwards compatibility - the 24/96 is an extension to the core DTS 5.1 - not a layer which is switch selectable. So both can't output in the same manner and older players still get the higher res benefit with a receiver having the appropriate processing. But really, I switched from one to other and found little difference. And DTS 24/96 is not in the same league as MLP 5.1 (24/96 or even 24/48) or multichannel SACD - it's still too compressed.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3168
Registered: Dec-03
Yes, I remember thinking even 44.1 and 48 kHz 24-bit DVD-A was a step up from DTS, on the same disc. Whichever form of DTS I was getting, which was not specified.
 

rob gonzalez
Unregistered guest
How do you get a DVD player to play the DTS folder? My NAD only plays the DVD-A and gives no option....
 

rob gonzalez
Unregistered guest
How do you get a DVD player to play the DTS folder? My NAD only plays the DVD-A and gives no option....
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1906
Registered: Aug-04
It usually has to be selected from the DVD menu - under 'set-up' or 'set-up options' or sometimes 'languages'
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3171
Registered: Dec-03
The NAD T533 is bad at this. If there is DVD-A on one side of a disc, you often cannot choose anything else, even if you want to.

Some discs have a menu from which to choose various formats.

Sometimes this works. Other times, if you choose "DTS" or "Dolby Digital 5.1", then the splash window says "First reset your player to DVD-V". Which you cannot do on the T533 as far as I know.

I think that the original "red Book" DVD-A format did not include DVD-A and DVD-V partitions on one side of one disc.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1917
Registered: Aug-04
The DVD authorities (or whatever name they go by) declared that alternative decoding such as DD or DTS must be available for non DVD-A players - because DVD-A is still a DVD product as far as they are concerned. And in any case - why want the lesser formats when you have DVD-A either in 2 or multichannel?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3172
Registered: Dec-03
http://www.dvdforum.org/

I think the original agreement was to put DVD-A and DVD-V on different sides of the disc. I have several like that. It is much better and simpler to use. While I do not think anyone rules that DVD-V must be available, I should think it is commercially desirable, to record companies, to be able to put "Plays on any DVD player" on the box. Then they often like to get their trade mark all over one side of the disc, I expect.

You might choose DVD-V over DVD-A if you want the video part.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3323
Registered: Dec-03
August 2005 "HiFi News" has a review of the NAD T533. It is very positive about the sound quality, less so about the video. That magazine's audio and video reference is very hi-end, and expensive stuff. My interpretation is that this player is strongly recommended, at its price point, if audio is the first priority.
 

Singing Detective
Unregistered guest
I have the T533 now for 6 months. For most of the time i play cd's. Although i am impressed with the cd performance, the sound is sometimes a bit harsh. The T533 is connected to a NAD C350 amplifier and Dynaudio Audience 52 speakers. Does anybody have the same experience ?
So now i am thinking of buying a separate cd player. Maybe the C542 or spend some more money and buy a Marantz SA8400.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3498
Registered: Dec-03
I haven't noticed that, SD. I have changed my amp and speakers during my 16 months with the T533, but not because of any problems I could detect with CD performance.

Here are two things to think about, after all my praise, overcoming the copy protection issue, and all the discussions on this thread.

1. The NAD T533 does not have an "Off" switch.

Why is this a problem? Because, even on "Standby" - the nearest you can get to "Off" without pulling the plug - the unit generates RF interference which is picked up by an FM tuner. So, if it is in an audio system, you have to be able to disconnect the player from its power supply whenever you wish to listen to music on the radio.

2. With regret, I have to report that SACD seems to be winning over DVD-A, at least for the time being, and simply in terms of availability of discs.

Already, I find there are attractive recordings that are available on SACD, but not DVD-A. My Rantz and others always stressed the importance of having a "universal" player". I thank them; it seems this was good advice. There may be some advantages in having separate DVD-A and SACD players, but most people buying at this price point will want to be able play any "hi-res" disc from one unit.

I am still glad I bought this player, and still recommend it. But is our first priority is music, we, and NAD, now have to face up to the fact that there are more SACDs in the shops that DVD-A discs. I doubt that DVD-A will die completely. But SACD, rightly or wrongly, seems to be gaining ground. If I am right, we will eventually see an NAD SACD player, or even a "universal".

That might well be worth waiting for.

But, if we are impatient, and want to move on from CD, we shall have to go elsewhere.
 

Singing Detective
Unregistered guest
In my last post i mentioned that the CD sound of the T533 is sometimes a bit harsh. Aspecially with loud voices. Part of the problem was caused by a bad connection of one speaker. I also replaced the connector between the pre-out and main-in of the C350 amp by a proper interlink cable. The sound has improved a lot. So the problem was not caused by the T533.
For a DVD player the CD sound is impressive. Still not as i hoped it would be. But for this price there is no DVD player with a better cd sound. If i want a better sound, i have to buy a stand alone cd player.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Konoyaro

San Francisco, CA United States

Post Number: 18
Registered: Jul-04
Looks like NAD is introducing a "Master Series" Universal player - the M55. So far I only have found info for this product in Czech site and picture on a French site(!?). The front panel shows DVD-A, SACD, HDCD, HDMI, DCDi, etc.
But hopefuly this portends a less pricey version in the near future.
http://www.derouet.fr/photos/m55_3-4l_copy.jpg
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3520
Registered: Dec-03
Well, that's some news, konyaro! I guess they now have to make a universal player.

"Less pricey" than what? I can't find anything on the M55 from NAD site or even "Google". The parent site for that photo says:

Home Cinéma > Lecteur DVD

Upload

M55

Marque : Nad
Prix : Téléphonez au 01.42.23.16.00
Description : Nad série Master

Lecteur DVD haut de gamme

 

Bronze Member
Username: Konoyaro

San Francisco, CA United States

Post Number: 19
Registered: Jul-04
I guess less pricey than one would expect a flagship DVD player to go for. That being said, this Czech audio site shows the M55 priced at roughly $2000USD (before tax ;-) ):
http://www.elektrospalicek.cz/detail.php?id=1809
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3522
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks again, konyaro.

I ran a currency conversion, and the result agrees.

It looks like NAD is planning to coordinate release of what they will call the "Master Series", including a 7 x 160 W "M25" power amplifier and an "M15" AV processor, at around US$ 3,000 - each.

This is a move up-market. They can probably see the success of Denon and others in that range, but are offering "Audiophile" separates.

It is amusing that the Czech dealer does not even mention DVD-A capability, although the badge is clearly on the box.

I wonder how that dealer can post all that information, including prices, and the French dealer has graphics. Probably they have both broken an embargo.

Anyway, the M55 is not going to compete with the T533, not on price. I wonder if the CD and DVD-A performance will be significantly different.

People interested in video will note the DCD and HDMI badges, too.

This is not before time. I think the T533, still a new model, was the first NAD with component video. I find that is a real improvement over SCART, which was the highest European video option on the T532.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3539
Registered: Dec-03
Also

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=563866
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