I have the Mitsubishi 52725 and 62725, with cable service from Time Warner and cablecards made by Scientific Atlanta (don't think this information matters, but just in case it does).
My issue is that some HD channels are not available. These are not interactive channels, as I understand that 1st generation cablecards do not support bi-directional communication. Rather, these are channels that Time Warner says carries different signals at different times (i.e., local sports and shopping). Their explanation is that these channels are encoded on different frequencies, but modulate to the same HD channel. The short version is - I don't get that HD channel using a cablecard, though I will if I use Time Warner's cablebox.
Can anyone out there shed any light on this? Since none of this seems to require a response from my system to Time Warner, it doesn't sound like this should be a major issue (i.e., the cablecard should be able to handle the HD signal).
There's a part of me that wants to believe that this is Time Warner's "pound of flesh" since I now only pay $3.50/month for two HD sets. However, I'd also like to believe that they're more professional than that.
There are no HD channels that you shouldn't be getting using the CC from TWC. The only channels you can not access with the CC are Pay Per Views and Movies on Demand. Since I work for TWC I can tell you first hand all services minus PPV and MOD are available. What I'm more curious about is what specific channels are you referring to? Depending on what system you live in you might not be able to view local ABC or FOX channels, if the Sinclair Broadcast Group owns those local stations. TWC and SBG are in negotions for the right to retransmit their signals, SBG wants to get paid for retransmission, and TWC doesn't want to pay for something they are not paying other local channels to retransmit. Since TWC passes all local channels in the clear at no charge to the customer, it doesn't want to pay SBG....big fight, no headway in over a year now. Anyway fill me in on what channels you are not able to get and I might be able to help out.
mattr
Unregistered guest
Posted on
I have a similiar issue, where INHD2 is sharing a channel(in my case 531) with NESHHD(a regional sports channel). So when there is a ball game on in HD, NESNHD switches in on INHD2. They being TW and SA have beening working(so they say) on the switching problem sense April, and I have seen only a hand full of games out of a hundred that I should have. About a month ago, NESNHD finally switched in properly, and ever sense it has been inconsistant, I'll sit down ready to watch the game in HD, knowing the the game is broadcasted in HD that day, and be let down. The funny thing is, I will call to tell a tech, and they will check to see if it is on there tv(via stb) and is on, so I ask what about your test cablecard tv, "oh we don't have one". What? I like the service TW offers, and have never had any problems with my cc, except this. I would think if the switching worked fine once, why would it still be inconsistant day to day.
mattr, Wish I could comment on the problem you are having with them switching, but alas I don't have any idea what you're speaking about since the division I work in doesn't have NESNHD. It might help if you were to ask to speak with a tech supervisor and see if he can contact somebody at the headend in your system and give you a logical explanation of why you are having these problems. As a tech, I can tell you first hand we have no control over what the headend does with channels...so going to the horses mouth would best answer your questions. Let me know how things turn out.
Anonymous
Posted on
CableGuy,
Thanks for the quick response. Here is the info you asked about...
I live in San Diego, and the specific channel in question is 704 - which is where Cox broadcasts the Padre games and other local sports. According to Time Warner, they (Cox) broadcast 24/7 so there is no problem with receiving the channel via cablecard if you are a Cox subscriber (not an option, as Cox doesn't provide service to our area). Apparently, Time Warner does not carry all of the Cox programming available on 704, so this channel is shared with ESPN News. According to Time Warner, these two feeds come in on different freqs, but modulate to the same channel. Time Warner's claim is that 1st generation cablecards can't handle this, but their cable box can.
If I bypass the cablecard, by splitting the cable and running a second feed to my Cable-B input, I can get the non-HD feed on Channel 4. However, the non-HD feed on Channel 4 is also lost when using the cablecard.
Again, sounds too much like techno-speak for "get one of our boxes", but...
mattr
Unregistered guest
Posted on
I got a similiar answer, or figure out for myself through read up on the subject,that the two feeds come in on different freqs, but modulate to the same channel. I think the problem is in the re-encrytion, or something like that. The info to tell the CC to switch networks is more complicated. I guess. But STB can handle the switching or more complicated de-encrytion better. What I don't understand is, if it has worked before why would something change, and not work the next day with the same conditions.
Key point to bring up to them: Any channel minus PPV/MOD and the IPG should be made available through the CC. This is an FCC mandate, if it's not working they need to correct it, I'm not playing favorites because I work for the company. I can't think of any reason it won't work, unless the CC needs to be rebooted everytime they change from the COX feed to ESPN. This may correct the problem because the TV will relearn the channel map upon resetting the CC. It still is a step in my opinion that shouldn't need to be taken. The biggest problem is I have nothing in my part of the world to compare it to...so I can only speculate. Like usual, my strong recommendation would be for you as a consumer to contact your local TWC office and move the mountain. You should have a local cable commission in your area, it wouldn't hurt to contact them if you feel you're getting the run around. It's all a matter of FCC compliance, not what's convenient for the cable co. Keep us posted.
Anonymous
Posted on
Update on cablecard and Time Warner situation...
I contacted my local cable commission, and provided them with the details of the current situation. As luck would have it, the commission is already having a face-to-face meeting with Time Warner on other items, and they promised to add my email to the list of issues to be discussed. I'm not holding my breath, but I'll let you know how things turn out.
Since June, I've had an ongoing problem with Albany Time Warner and their CableCARD which disables the digital sound out interface of my TV for every ATSC broadcast except my HD local channels. I called yesterday for an update and they said their CableCARD enforces "copy never" protection and this will not change. They advised me to rent a cable box if I want to get Dolby Digital sound output delivered to my 6.1 receiver.
I've dropped $50 per month of premium movie channels and an HD-DVR rental. I anticipate I will discontinue RoadRunner service this weekend.
Anonymous
Posted on
Update #2
Cable commission talked with TW's local VP for Public Relations...and then was surprised that TW never got in touch with me. Cable commission is calling VP back to remind them that I still have an unresolved issue. Sounds like this will be just one more step I need to follow through on to force the issue.
Anonymous, Is TWC San Diego using the SA CC? If so, you can go into your TV-DEVICE MENU-CABLECARD Diagnostic, look at the software version, this screen flips quickly so be patient, are you running 1.48s2 or 1.49s2?
Anonymous
Posted on
Update #3
Wonder of wonders, the "unavailable HD channel" suddenly appeared! My younger son just tuned in the channel (not sure why he was trying) and THERE IT WAS! I will wait and see if this situation stays, but it looks like Time Warner decided to cave in. I guess the moral of this story is "every now and then, the little guy can win...especially if the FCC is lurking in the background".
P.S. Cableguy, TWC is using the Scientific Atlanta CC in the San Diego area.
cool beans Anonymous. I heard of some problems in cable systems where they are doing split channel's, but I believe that issue was addressed with a firmware update to the CC, not 100% certain since I'm not in those areas.
Anonymous
Posted on
Update, Final
Finally received a phone call from Time Warner Cable. Their explanation is that they had just installed the latest software upgrade and pushed these through to the cablecard, which resulted in the channels being able to come in. Personally, I find the timing somewhat suspicious, but I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Bottom Line...
I now have all the channels, both HD and non-HD that I expected to receive via the cablecard. The pictures look incredible, and I'm very happy to be paying $3.50 for two cablecards vice $30 for two HD-capable set-top-boxes...and I only have the one remote to deal with.
I just purchased a Mitsubishi 52627 DLP. Time Warner says they do not support Cablecard for my model...and the only solution is...(wait for it) a cable box. They claim if I want to use Cablecard,I need to contact the manufacturer but this doesn't seem logical. I did ask Mitsubishi to ship me a software upgrade, but I don't see how that gets my model on the list of TW "supported" sets. Anyone else experienced this run-around and have ideas about how to proceed?
peasell, There is a certification process that takes place with all new devices, if the Time Warner system you are in is stating your model isn't on their list of supported TV's, Is your model the WD-52627? And what system of Time Warner are you in, if you don't mind disclosing a reqion of the country?
peasell
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Yes, the model is WD-52627. I am in Kansas City. I understand that model is reasonably new, what is the time lag we should expect for certification? Thanks for the reply.
peasell
Unregistered guest
Posted on
P.S. According to CableLabs, the WD-52627 was certified on 9/15/05.
I was waiting for you to verify the model number, according to the info I have it was self certified by Mitsubishi, best advice is to call Kansas City office back again and have them double check their information. It should be available to for cable card installation. Speak with a manager if they insist it's not on their certified list.
peasell
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Thanks. I will give that a try.
Peasell
Unregistered guest
Posted on
The merry-go-round at TW is well oiled...No one knows anything. It almost seems that the HD technician is a guy no one has actually seen or talked to in person. But everyone agrees he is the "man" who can answer my question. It may take a couple of days for him to find the time to call. "Customer Service" at TW is an oxymoron.
Peasell, I do work for said company, but no offense taken as I can understand the frustration when nobody knows the answers. Believe me, it's been a long road to get to where I am at with these things. I can't make promises but I'll see if there is somebody I can contact in KC and try to get a resolution. Not my division so I don't know how they do things there.
Peasell
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Cableguy,
I do very much appreciate that my recent experience may not be reflective of the TW culture as a whole. Truth is we had standard cable for more than 10 years and not a whit of trouble about anything. I certainly don't expect you to carry my water, but it's nice to know someone is listening. As a manager myself when you read the saga of customer complaints on the net about TW, it makes you wonder who is minding the store?
I don't like to group things into catagories as a person because every cirmcumstance has it's justifications. Ideally speaking I wish this forum thread was more about people saying what a great product this thing is instead of all the problems that are being encountered.
The finger pointing is unbelievable, "X" blames "Y", "Y" blames "X", in the meantime the consumer is stuck in the middle. I try to help when I can and where I can, but don't have the ability to do more. Offering advice on things to check is easy and gives you something else to arm yourself with so when somebody says "I don't know why...." Your issue is about the worst kind of problem, it's clearly an issue that your provider is going off outdated data and your manufacturer might be able to help quicker then I can. You have to get past the phone reps at their end, just like you do at our end, and see if somebody on their end has the ability to contact TWC and explain to them why they are claiming their product is not supported. Have you contacted Mitsubishi about this and reported it, and what did they tell you? Did they create a file number for reference on this issue? Did they forward it along to their engineering department? Please remember that I'm not on this forum representing TWC, I'm just here looking for facts, issues other people (like yourself) are having and trying to help when I can. I'll be the first to admit there are problems across the board, and this is a good place for me to learn from what is going on elsewhere to help me not have those problems where I work.
peasell
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Phoning Mitsubishi is about as easy as TW. I did send their Customer Service group an e-mail. We'll see if anything comes of it.
Also sent an e-mail to TW's VP of Public Relations and Production. I want to give TW a fair opportunity to solve the problem, but am nearing a point where I have no real confidence that they are interested in doing so. My next steps include making contact with my city hall to see if their franchise agreement with TW has any provisions that would put TW in breech of the agreement should TW services not be provided in compliance with FCC regulations.
If I don't get any response soon, I think further options will include writing letters to regulatory agencies and perhaps the local TV stations. I suspect I am in a class of people having this sort of trouble. Perhaps the court of public opinion will convince TW to get their act together...
The amount of time/effort wasted by TW in denying the problem, will in the end probably be greater than having solved the problem to begin with. It just boggles my mind...
Yeah that definately stinks...you could move to my system, I'll get it working Your email to TW's VP, should definately get the ball rolling...nobody (that I'm aware of) likes to get a call from their bosses boss asking "what is going on? and why isn't this being dealt with at your end?" The fire's been lit, keep me posted
Peasell
Unregistered guest
Posted on
The TW HD specialist just called me. Now in fairness to some of the less complementary comments I've posted, I want to say this guy was truly interested in listening and solving my problem. I wish I could have spoken to him earlier. He did not try to pass the buck or send me elsewhere. He looked up my TV in the system and found it!!!
We are now going to wait for the firmware upgrade from Mitsubishi and re-try the cablecard. If that doesn't work, we may try a different cablecard. While the problem isn't resolved, because of how the HD specialist approached me, I am willing to spend some time troubleshooting with him.
I doubt my e-mail had much impact, but it is certainly co-incidental how quickly I got a phone call :-). Thanks for all your ideas and suggestions. I'll keep you informed of the outcome.
Peasell, I don't agree that your email had anything to do with it, you'd be amazed at how much upper management doesn't like to get phone calls from commissioners or the FCC about non-compliance lol. In all seriousness though I think the problem was simply people not doing what I did...when you don't know the answer, go look it up. If you still can't find the answer call somebody who does. If they don't know keep calling until you get the person that knows what's going on...it's called following up. Then when you know the answer, contact the person who initiated the sequence and let them know what you've found out...that's called good customer service. Whoever their "specialist" is, you'll find that they have all of these traits. I'm glad you finally got that issue behind you and on to the software update from Mitsubishi..you should be getting update ending in 4.05 or 4.06 and all will be peaceful in HD-ville USA. I'll be looking for your "FINALLY WORKING" post
edit note for above post: That should have read "I don't agree that you doubt your email had anything to do with it,".....
BeakerSC
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Cableguy,
I think I saw somewhere that you were able to answer the "What does 161-6 error code mean?" from Sony units. I think you were responding to folks with Sony TVs. What about those of us with the HD DVR DHG-HDD250/500? I've had TWO of them now, one is a replacement from Sony for the first, and BOTH have given me the 161-6 error within two-three days of installing the CableCARD (CC).
I use TWC in SC and a Sci-Atl CC. Techs have said my signal strength is "10/13" and the unit shows "83%" signal. I'm in the infinite loop now of calls to both Sony and TWC, and Lvl II/PC Tech support supposed to get back with me.
Contact Sony about this problem, they are aware it's happening with their DVR units. You still should be able to reset the device and get all your channels back in until the error happens again. Ask them to esculate this issue to an engineer at Sony.
BeakerSC
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Thanks, cableguy! Resets work, just for a short time unfortunately.
Of course they work, that's why the feature is there. It's a nice thing to be able to correct the problem until somebody can get out and repair what's defective.
I have a new Sony LCD Model KDL-V26XBR1. When I connected the cable, three HD channels appeared. I'm I seeing those channels in HD or is the cable card required? I'm with TWC in South Carolina.
You're seeing HD clear to air, more then likely local networks in your area. The cable company passes those stations through in the clear so you can view them without a CC. The only reason you would need a CC is if you want to add digital channels, premium stations like HBO, Cinemax, etc.. and HD channels like ESPN HD, Discovery HD etc...
Antcon
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Thanks for the info. This TV tuned in Digital Channels and Movies without the CC
Peasell
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Update -
Mitsubishi guys called me and we discussed the behavior of the TV when CC was installed. They believe we may have had one of the batch of bad Scientific Atlanta CC's and advised to try a different CC. TW's HD guy agrees and we'll see tomorrow if that works. To Mits credit, they offered to initiate a conference call and troubleshoot the problem with the TW tech if the new CC doesn't do the trick. I hope update #2 will say everything works fine!
Utilize any option given to you, if it takes a conference call, make it happen.
Peasell
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Update -
Cableguy, TW tech was out on Friday. Found signal to my house was (-19db). Changed cable and improved to (-6db). Installed cablecard...no work...installed second cablecard...same result. Installed third cablecard after talking with several other techs (it seems everyone now believes me about the bad batch of Scientific Atlanta cards). The third one actually communicated with the TV.
HD channels come in fine as well as channels 2-99. However I am receiving only about a half dozen of the digital channels I am paying for. The tech seems perplexed. Any ideas?
Glad to hear it's at least almost working properly. Can you be more specific about the channels you aren't receiving? Are you getting certain channels but not others? Do you know if the channels you are missing are part of specific package of channels? It would seem there is a coding issue if it is related to a specific package of channels but I'll wait to see what your reply is.
regards,
Peasell
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Update - :-)
TW's HD Tech found a mismatch in some coding between the cablecard/host and what was on my account at TW. All digital/HD and regular channels are now coming in as expected!!! The TW HD Tech was professional, knowledgeable and helpful. Once I was able to get to the techs, the problem resolved pretty quickly. Now if I can just get them to bury the new cable.
Thanks for all your suggestions and assistance Cableguy.
Scary thing was I was right about the coding issue, the good thing is you've got the problem corrected! Thanks for playing by the rules and keeping us posted as to the progress. Sorry it took so long for them to work all the issues out, not that it's my fault, but you know what I mean.
Best regards,
BeakerSC
Unregistered guest
Posted on
So here's an interesting bit...maybe CableGuy has an idea?
Sony engineers have had about two weeks to work on my HDD250 issue with no response, and now Sony Level II support won't return my calls. SciAtl said that since my card was built after Apr '05 that I have the most up-to-date firmware.
Question I have is about signal strength. The only scale I have right now is "10 of 13" (whatever that means?!). How can I determine dB strength? It seems a dB of ~30 is required for the CC to keep synch.
...I'm starting to REALLY consider a return of this unit...ALTHOUGH if you don't use Digital Tier, it's a great alternative to renting the cable company's equipment AND a better pic quality.
Beaker, The best way to determine your signal strength is to have a cable tech come out with a signal meter and read the levels at the back of your TV. Make sure they check the FDC as well as the low and high pilot channels. The FDC is most crucial as the data the CC gets to work properly comes in on the FDC.
Anonymous
Posted on
I'll add my name to the list of people having problems with CableCard and TWC. I am in Houston with a motorola CC and a Sony KDF55XS955. With the CC, I am currently receiving all of the analog channels, but no digital channels, except for the local HD channels. If I tune into a digital channel, I get the screen that says 'call your cable operator.' I recently received an upgraded firmware 1.72 for the sony, but the CC still does not work. The sony tech is coming out tomorrow to replace the 'Q-box' on the tv. I'll then try a third CC. I have a large house with a number of splitters. Although the signal tests fine, would it possibly make a difference if I move the sony to where the cable comes in from outside the house so that I know that the card is getting activated? If its not the tv, it would seem as though the card is not getting activated properly.
anonymous, I don't have any experience with the Motorola. Did you ever get any error messages? Can you access your CC section in the TV menu, be on a digital channel and see if the CP authorization has been received, and tell me what the PowerKey status and Decryption status say. Yes it would help if your TV was closer to the main source, but that's not the issue...the signal should be good no matter where in the house it is located. If there is a way to reconfigure the splitters in your house to get that particular leg of cable to be as un-split as possible. Keep us posted as to whether the Q-box replacement fixes your woes, we'll be here.
I never received any error meessages, besides the 'call your cable operator.' I can access the CC section of the TV, so I'll check it when I get home. And, if it helps anyone, to access the diagnostic menu of my sony (kdf55xs955), with the tv off, hit 'display', volume up (once), power. the tv should come on with info in the upper left hand corner. hitting 'jump' will cycle through the menus. on the menu that says 'diag' in the right hand corner, hit '3' and you'll see info about your firmware, etc. *use at your own risk*
correction on entering diagnostic mode on my sony: the key combination is 'display' '5' 'vol up' and then power. once in diagstic mode, you can hit 'jump' to go through different menus. the only menu i'm familiar with is the one that says 'service' in the top right corner in blue. once you're on this menu, you can hit '3' to scroll through the submenus. hitting '6' goes back through the submenus.
anyhow, if i go through the regular menus on my tv, the CC menu entitled 'conditional access' says "Host validation': Unknown01
however, i was scrolling through the digital channels last night and channel 223 (some jazz channel) does work. I called tier 3 and he told me that if i'm getting 223 (a digital channel) then the CC is authorized. I also can view and listen to all of the digital music channels (channels 700's and 800's).
There is also a diagnostics menu (that you don't need the secret code to view) in my tv that indicates the snr ratio for in band (FAT) and out of band (FDC). For in band, my snr is 34(db), ACG is 19%. For out of band (which according to tier 3, this is the digital channels) my snr waivers between 20-24 (db) with agc of nearly 100%. Tier 3 said that the snr for out of band should be 25-35.
as for powerkey status and decryption status, I don't see those terms in the regular or secret menus.
Under the CableCard Status menu, it says Download status Segments left to Download: 0 State: Wait to Start
sony tech coming today to replace q box and TWC tech coming to check signal.
I know absolutely nothing about the hidden dignostics as that is for TV repairmen and manufacturer use. The screen I am referring to is in your user access menu under cablecard. there are usually 3 screens available in the TV menu for cablecards: Host Pairing information, CP screen, and CC diagnostics. The info I requested is in the CP info section. As for your in band and out of band levels there is nothing wrong there what-so-ever. Get me the data from the CP screen while on a digital channel, I can work from there
I called TWC this moring and they again confirmed that the snr was way too low. They said it should be in the 30's. The local sony tech called sony and they also confirmed that the snr should be in the 30's. Coincidentally, or not, the local sony tech is working on another sony tv in houston (different model than mine) with the same problems i'm having and his tv also has a snr in the 20's. the twc tech is coming today to get the signal up. if that doesn't work, the local sony tech will replace the q-box tomorrow.
ok, so keeping in mind you're on a motorola card, that might make sense since I'm gauging off an SA, sorry for the confusion. As for the inband signals I think you're barking up the wrong tree there. At least what I see on a SA CC, the inband is usually between 31-35. As long as it doesn't dip below 29 I've never had any problems. If it does dip below 29 you usually see pixelating on digital channels. For your out of band, the FDC @75.250 is the actual frequency for the Forward Data Carrier in your system and again, based on SA experience I've never seen mine above 23db usually fluctuates between 22 and 19 and never had any problems. Keeping in mind this is a motorola different thresholds between the two types could make or break the operational status of the CC. I am only basing working status on what I work with, It would appear that everything is working with the exception that your State: CA disabled matches your Copy Protection Key:Disabled, indicating it's not been activated possibly. Since Sony agree'd that the SNR should be higher, maybe there is a difference between the SA and Moto brand CC's. Wish I could be of more help. It sounds like you've got Sony working with your cable system to resolve the problem, and I have faith they'll get to the bottom of it. Please keep us posted, as I don't work with motorola stuff, I will learn something as well. Key point to have the tech check your SNR and FDC on the cable wire behind your TV set. regards,
two hours later, I still can't watch my digital channels except for a jazz channel, the music channels, and the local hd's.
he measured the signals and found that the signal on channel 112 or something was around -1. when the signal comes in from the outside, its more like +5.
It didn't help that it was the tech's third day of troubleshooting. I'll try and get the field supervisor to come out and I guess I'll go ahead and replace the qbox. the saga continues...
houston twc came out this morning and discovered a problem with the signal that was coming in from outside the house. I've got the sony tech coming over this afternoon to fix a new problem with the tv (lost analog channels after switching out the q-box) and then we'll try activating the card again.
interesting tidbits - channel 223 (the jazz channel) is not encrypted-its a test channel. The music channels & local hd's are also not encrypted. The activation signal is not sent from houston (they expect to have the proper equipment in a few months) but from San Diego. According to the sony tech, he has 5 other tv's in houston with the same problem.
I'm thinking now that after my sony got the firmware update, the problem has been with the activation signal from twc. hopefully, i'll have some good news tonight.
that's great news that they've worked out the signal problems...it helps to have somebody who know's what they're looking for doesn't it? Not so sure about the houston/san diego thing? Keep us posted please
Antono
Unregistered guest
Posted on
A Scientific Atlanta CC was placed in my Panasonic TH50PX500U Plasma TV last week by Adelphia. On many of the digital and HD channels the digital sound cuts out after a few seconds. The local HD channels' digital sound works well. The Adelphia tech installers don't know what to do. Is this a problem at the headend or with the cablecard? What can be done to get me digital sound on all these digital channels?
Contact Panasonic and have them verify the version of software on your TV is the most up to date version available, also there is a interface problem with the content flags that cable providers embed to ensure content protection of programming along with certain manufacturer's software that will not pass digital audio if the CCI count is 0x02 or greater. This applies if you have your digital audio output from your TV to a stereo receiveer. If you're losing sound just on the TV, it will be a software update that corrects that problem. Keep us posted please. thanks
Antono
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Thanks for the reply. My CCI count is 0x02 or greater on all of these digital channels where the digital audio cuts out. Panasonic has verified that I do have the latest software. Who do I contact and what do I say to fix this interface problem? Is the problem at the Cablecard or at Adelphia?
If it is the audio going to your stereo receiver the problem is a combination of source/provider/TV manufacturer. Since the networks and the cable company can set copy protection flags, your TV is being told to "never copy", hence the audio dropping off to your stereo. Panasonic has said it's their policy to not pass anything if the flag is 0x02 or greater. If the problem is the sound on your TV and not a stereo I would contact your cable provider and have them verify if the channels you are losing are being broadcast in AC3 audio as they should be. If they are, contact Panasonic and have them look into why it is not decoding AC3. You never clarified if it was just on your TV or to your surround system so I've left both options. Actually a person on this forum named Optivity helped me to figure where the faults were, so through researching his problem I've been able to come up with the answers to why this is happening.
regards,
Ken73
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Just wanted to share my frustrations using the CC here in Houston. The service I've received is sub-par, at best. Here's my timeline I wrote up just so I could keep track of the chaos.
11/17/05 - Received new Toshiba 57" with CC slot, called TW cable to ask about cablecard - was told that it did not descramble digital TV - corrected the tech and had them call tier 3 tech support to understand it DID descramble the digital channels.
Called back at 3:45 after I had picked up my cablecard from the local retail outlet in Texas City (Motorola card if anyone is interested) and gave them the numbers off the TV - I was told it should be activated "within 24 hours" ... Here's the problem - with the Toshiba TV I bought, and the revision of software it had on it, it WOULD NOT let you change channels (or watch TV for that matter) until the Cablecard was activated! So I've got this nice big brand new 57" TV that I can't watch TV on. DVD's it is for me for a while.
11/18/05 - Called back at 3:50, was then told 48 hours .. then after explaining the last guy said 24 hours, he said "oh it's 24 BUSINESS hours" so I talked to a supervisor and was told it would be on FOR SURE! by Monday ("for sure" .. !!!!)
11/21/05 - Called back, they said that numbers were wrong, (the first guy never verified them) so I gave them the correct numbers, was told "likely within 24 hours but as many as 48"
11/22/05 - Called back, told them to send a tech, I'm tired of arguing. Was getting a "digital signal too low" message on the TV which gave me false hopes that maybe (just maybe!) it was a signal problem and the cablecard had been activated.
11/23/05 - Tech finds bad signal; he replaces the cable from the pole to my house and crimps a new end on my wallplate - analog reception (after removing the cablecard) is FANTASTIC at that point. Cablecard still does not work; gives the same "digital signal too low" message so he calls in to tier 3 to find out the TV has too low of revision of software. He explains it's now in my hands (understood) to get the TV upgraded. I ask the tech to leave a cable box and I left the tech the express instructions NOT to turn cable card off! NOTE: This is the point at which I can resume watching TV as I was before - nearly a week later! I called Toshiba the next day and they said they would send me the upgrade (comes on an SD memory card, no less.)
12/5/05 - Received and installed the upgrade to the TV, Cablecard still not working - called to find out that they had turned OFF the cable card like I had told them NOT to, so I told them to turn it on, they said it would be 48 hours. AGAIN.
12/7/05 - Called to find out that they are upgrading their system so it won't take 48 hours and they can do it directly on the phone, I was told to call back on Monday - expressed my severe frustration and interest in Dish network and was FINALLY given Showtime & HBO for a month - which was never turned on!!!
12/12/05 - Called back and was told that upgrade was not complete, requested Showtime and HBO actually be TURNED ON. Tech sits on phone and makes sure it is turned on finally. Was told to call back THURSDAY.
12/13/05 - Turned on TV to find that my INHD1/2 and DiscoveryHD don't work anymore. Showtime and HBO do, but not my HD channels. This is through the box!
Today is the 14th and I will be calling them AGAIN today to find out why those channels are off.
What I will say is that everyone has at least been polite and understanding - however I am very tired of the empty promises I get from TW customer reps. "Free HBO & Showtime for a month" .. but they forget to turn it on! "It'll be on Monday FOR SURE!" .. yea, Monday of WHAT MONTH? January!? The tech that came out was really nice and helpful - he did fiddle with the outlet by the TV which I understand he doesn't have to do - of course all he did was put a new connector on it but it improved the signal by leaps and bounds! I can understand the Cablecard system being new and having frustrations with it - I went through this when I got Roadrunner over 5 years ago. They have fairly well streamlined that service now so it's almost never down. I feel sorry for the people who work for TW - mainly because they are forced to give excuses for sub-standard service. I'd certainly hate my job if I worked for them.
Ken, Since I work for TW, I can offer my appology that you had the problems you did. Since our system doesn't use the Motorola CC, I can't compare the differences between it and the SA CC. Although it sounded like there was some issues initially with your signal, this in part could be the biggest "blame" factor of your subsequent problems. This is why we don't allow self installs at this point and time. There are too many factors that can contribute to a successful installation of the CC, and the customer usually doesn't have the tools to establish signal level, proper cables/connectors, and if necessary amplifiers to boost the signal. Another part of the equation was, as you mentioned, that you needed a firmware upgrade for your Toshiba in order for it to work properly with your CC. Since you had two major strikes against you, your signal and your TV software, I can easily see why you have had the problems you've encountered. As others have found out, sometimes there is a need for an update from the TV manufacturer, to correct known operating problems with the CC, it's a good point for anybody that is considering purchasing one of these TV's, to promptly call the manufacturer when you get home to see what version of software should be installed on your TV, and where do you find that information to confirm what version is OEM installed. As for you time lines from point of picking the CC up and installing it yourself, and trying to get the numbers added to the system to get the CC working properly, I don't know what their process is since we don't do self installs. It would seem to me, they have since corrected the amount of time to activate the CC, you should be able to see results while still on the phone with them to verify coding and pairing is correct. Since you aren't able to view certain HD or digital channels through your STB, one could assume this means there is a coding issue with your account, and needs to be verified and corrected. This could also mean there is a problem with your digital signals...of course that would require another service tech to come out and verify signals are within operating range. With your signal levels corrected and the upgrade to your TV, everything should work after deregistering and re-registering your CC to your TV and hit's sent. If it's not working on your STB, it's not likely to work on your CC either. If it's any consolation, the only times I've seen a problem is when the software needs updating on the TV side of things. Problems encountered at the time of install that are cable related are fixed on the spot. Keep us posted, and hang in there...
I am having a problem with my new Sony KDF-E50A10. Cox has tried 2 different cablecards (Scientific Atlanta), but the A10 will not pick up any digital or HD channels (only basic cable stations shown). All digital channels show up as "Not Autorized". The Cox installer has tried 2 days in a row and believes there is a software conflict that will require the assistance of a Sony tech.
Is this anyone else's understanding or had this issue resolved? Thanks.
Ken73
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Okay, update for 12/15; the tech showed up and albeit was very nice, he was pretty useless. He tells me that the cablecard was "bad" and I needed to get another one. So, off to TX City again to get another card. Come back, this time they gave me a sheet with instructions on it - which tells me "no splitters, etc." and gives me a direct number to "cable card activation." So I call the number and they send me off in 40 different directions. I ask for a supervisor and he says he's going to go find someone to help me and call me back. 45 minutes later, a real tech calls me back (NOTE: this is the FIRST time anyone has called me when they said they would!)
I get this guy named Joseph - this is the FIRST person I've talked to yet that actually knows his stuff! He was able to *try to* activate the card on the phone with me - rather than the ridiculous 48 hour waste of time I keep getting. After fighting with the new card repeatedly, we come to the conclusion that this card too, is bad. (Are they REALLY bad?!) Tomorrow I will stop and pick up my THIRD cablecard. He tells me horror stories of people trying 10-15+ cards before they finally "got it right" .. apparently there's odd combinations with different TV's - i.e. the TV has to be on during the activation or it has to be off or whatever.
Joseph also helped me fix the cable box so it displays properly; the first tech who put it in didn't set it up properly for HDTV. :| My channels are all on now finally, too.
I'm on a quest to get rid of this extra damned remote!
Taxman, Have you seen any error messages? Also if you would, go into your menu and pull up the SA cablecard CP information. Does it show CP authorization received? If it doesn't, more then likely there is a coding issue from your provider, or signal levels not sufficient to pass data. Also just above the cablecard section in the menu there is a TV diagnostic screen that shows in-band and out of band data. Get that information and post it here. You could also post the data that is on the CP info screen too, would be a big help.
Ken, I've never had to use any more then 3 cards, and even that was once, to get them up and working properly. I seriously doubt you've had that many bad cards, odds are there is a signal level issue or coding issues. Since earlier you posted they came out and found some bad lines, I'd rather think there is a problem with some coding still. Wish I could do more, but you've got to keep on them about this. Keep us posted
Thanks Cableguy. I will have the Sony tech do that as well as replace the Q-box (per the tech). I assume the shield and lamp are these "kits" I have read about to solve this problem.
If I still have problems, I will post the info you recommended. Unfortunately, the Cox tech did not leave me with the CableCard, but the HD-DVR instead. It is nice, but I don't like having two remotes and having to explain them to the wife. Thanks again.
Anonymous
Posted on
philips model 42pf320a/37 and the same for a 37 inch have problems doing firmware upgrade. even after the software was loaded from the website to the tv still dont work.
mrcmt26
Unregistered guest
Posted on
we use sa cc in si ny and they work great with the sony xbr and the lg but sharp gives a problem
mrcmt26
Unregistered guest
Posted on
cable guy ialso work wit tw in ny and if you have any information on those philips tvs with that firmware problem let me know on the post. we did 2 installations this week with this tv and they are stuck in the firmware upgrade. we called customer service and they told us about the software. since we wont load and download anything for the customers television they are bascally on thier own. we had one of the customers download the software and the tv still wont get past the firmware up grade. the model is 42 and 32(for inches)pf320a/37 thanks.
sharp tv's model 37gd6u need firmware upgrade for it to work with sa cards version 1.49p1. But sharp would not give me the version of firmware that the tv needed
mrcmt26, I haven't seen any of those problems with Phillips here, so I would defer you have somebody higher up the food chain contact Phillips and seek assistance as to why it is doing this when there is no upgrade to be upgraded to.
if we get more than the two problems with that tv we are going to call philips on that issue. we only did the 2 tv's so far. im sure there will be more coming here in staten island. They say that there is an upgrade but they dont tell us the version. But i also did one of the sony external DHG/HDD250 and it worked good.
Hi Cableguy, Can you help ? I have been read this post as well as getting other advice , and here`s the problem. Last Thurs. my Sony XS955 got really messed up. The picrute was all broken up and then I too received the 161-6 error code , tried resetting my CC and noticed the remote was very slugish , like it had dead batteries , anyway was able to reset , only to find I was missing all my digital ch, and most of my analog ch. I turned off the tv and removed the cc and upon powering up the tv i noticed that it was taking longer to power up ( about 14 blinks instead of the usual 9 , and it made a clicking sound ). The next day called mu cable co. ( Adelphia) and told them what happened and they said try putting the cc back in and I`ll send you a hit and see what happens. OK , so I put the CC back in and turned on the tv , ( still took 14 sec ) and told her it was back in and that I`ll do another reset after you send the hit. So I reset the CC and waited for the lineup and found NO digital ch`s. and only 38 analog ( usually about 70+ analog and 120+ digital). Anyway , turned the tv off and removed the cc and turned the tv back on ( all while she was on the line ) and it started without a clicking sound and in 9 sec. So I thought I had the problem solved , but it gets even stranger , after I hung up ( have them comming out Tues , 17th of Jan) turned the tv back off and a while later turned it back on without the cc and it was making the same clicking noise and taking 14 sec`s to power up. Called the cable co back and asked for a null hit ( without CC ) , so with the tv off she sends a hit , I wait , turn the tv on and no clicking and on in 9 sec`s. However latter that day turned the tv off and when I turned it back on it was doing the same thing as before clicking noise and 14 sec startup time. Now if my SA-CC messed up my tv what now ? will the cable co pay to fix my tv or do you thing a new CC will fix my problem?. Many thanks for any help you can provide. Gary
Have you contacted Sony about this issue? Is the TV still under warranty? I doubt seriously that there was anything the CC did to cause your TV to break, the bigger issue is why did you get the 161-6 error message? That has been a known issue with Sony TV's that indicates a need to replace the CC interface (Q-box) to correct the error message. As for the clicking and sluggish response time, that is a question best answered by Sony and not a "cableguy". I got lost reading your post as to when you hear the clicking sound, but if I am reading it properly, you indicated that the clicking sound was happening with the CC out of the TV, if this is correct then a new CC is definitely not going to fix the problem. If you are only hearing the clicking sound when the CC is installed, it may be the fan that cools the CC down hitting something in the TV, either way Sony should be able to address that as well as your operational issues. If they do have to replace the interface, it will assign a new host ID that will need to be indicated to your cable provider in order for the two devices to work properly. Keep us posted please
DNesbitt
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Cableguy,
You may be able to help another frustrating situation with Cablecard and TWC in Houston. I have a newer HP MD6580n, and have been trying for 2 mo. to get the Motorola MediaCiper cablecard working in this TV. I have been through a few cards with the first TV. The house has been rewired completely, and I have a good lock on the signal.
What happens in a nutshell is the tuner locks up when I stick the CC in the TV. Even after TWC says it has been activated, I can not get any channels tuned. The cablecard FDCtune shows locked and a good strong signal. I am on my second CC with the replacement TV (only a few days old). As many have, I have been back and forth between TWC and HP trying to solve this. The word from TWC local offices is that these cards are real tempermental; the word from HP is that it is an incompatibility with the card. I have tried resetting the TV with the cable card in, but it doesn't help. BTW, if I power down and take the card out, I can tune basic cable including local HD channels at 92-1, etc.
I am pulling my hair out at this point. Do I keep trying more cable cards? Any suggestions? I really don't want to return the TV, but I need the cablecard to work to make the investment worth while, due to other connections to the TC
DNesbitt~ brother I feel your pain. Since it is a Motorola CC, even though it's the same company I work with, I have no knowledge of Motorola issues or solutions. What advice I can offer is to make sure that both TWC and HP have somebody at your house at the same time to work out the problem. "The word from TWC local offices is that these cards are real tempermental" Tempermental or not, they have access to the same resources I have and should be able to coordinate with HP on getting you answers. "the word from HP is that it is an incompatibility with the card." So basically what HP is saying that they sold you something for primo $$$ and they don't know what to do about it? They made the TV, they know the operating parameters set forth by the FCC. Compliance is a major factor here, if they can't figure it out, then who else but the manufacturer is going to be able to??? This is an on going issue when one or both parties involved throws their collective hands in the air and says "???" Stick with it, demand nothing less then complete investigation firstly from your manufacturer and secondly from TWC. Keep me posted please...
Cable guy its mrcmt. got some dirt for you on the cable card. it turns out we been having problems here is staten island with some sharp and samsung tvs. im sure you know the models im talking about. so i called sharp cause i was having a problem with a sa cc. the lady from tech support told me that they just recieved an email from tw super visor from cincinati that the tried a cc with firmware 1.49p1 on a sharp tv and it worked. im just trying to make a long long story very short. Anyway we have a sharp here that they just bought for us so i can train the other techs how to do cc's. but the card never authorized. so i said (a couple weeks ago) maybe we should try to get the new software for the card and try it. but they said the new software was only for that sony cant think of the model kdf- something. so i called sharp again and another tech support told me the same thing about the email. So when i told the higher ups about it the said that person was full of you know what. so anyway they tried the new software on the card and by golly it worked go figure. Nobody ever listens to the people out in the field. The versiopn we had was 1.48. so im sure that the problem we had with the toshibas and the philips was our problem and not the tvs.
I'm not sure about phillips but samsung needs software upgrade of 1.58 on TV models ending in 94 and 1.28 on TVs ending in 95.
etbetb
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Cabletech
TWC in Dayton OH. Panny PT53WXD63. Has an HDTV OTA tuner in it, with a cablecard.
On install, the tech admitted he'd never successfully set a CC up first try. Bless his heart for honesty. This one was no different. Current analog service was there, but none of the HD content (mapped to the 700 series channels) was displaying, even the *free* locals. This was after getting the CC activated. Correct numbers in TWC's system.
Now the correct term was "display". The CC mapped the channel, but no picture or audio was there -- just a screen full of black. TV didn't give me a "channel not available" message. If I went into "recall" mode on the remote, it would (correctly) display whether that channel was 1080i or 720p. But no picture or sound.
Next morning, no picture or audio. Call the 800 number, and ask for a hit. While on the phone -- presto -- there's ESPN-HD.
28 days later ... no *pay* HD tier (3 INHD channels, a movie channel and ESPN). Channels map, all black picture and silent sound. I call for a hit, nothing happens. Told that the pay HD tier is "blocked" because of a football game on ESPN (why would ESPN-HD and 4 other channels be blocked, but ESPN-analog was showing the game in question? Hmmmm, excuse generator). Called for a hit, nothing happened, so Tier1 said, "send a tech!" Look next morning, presto! there's the HD tier. Scrubbed the tech visit.
28 days later. Same HD Tier channels gone. Call for a hit, and next morning it's back. Happened to get (he said anyway) a Tier 3 guy, who just happened to be pulling a Sunday morning shift. He couldn't explain the behavior.
Last Friday (28 days after the last time), no HD tier. Called for a hit, and decided to wait until Sat. Sat morn, no HD tier still. Call for another hit. Leave TV unplugged for 12 hours. Sun morn, no HD tier, call for another hit. Still no HD tier. Unplug TV, unplug CC. Let sit 5 min. Plug all back in. Uh-oh -- nothing but analog on the CC -- all previous digital mapping (including stuff that works) is now lost. Call for another hit. Get Tier 0 tech. Ask to be connected to Tier 2. She connects, well, disconnects me, after allegedly saying she sent a hit. I doubt it at the time -- sounded like somebody's Grandmother.
So, I go to bed steaming (having waited an hour on hold before disconnection), the CC is unmapped, and I'm figuring there's one more call to TW next evening to cancel the HD. Monday morn, I look, you guessed it, the HD is live now.
So, the question is, what's happening here? I'm not messing with the cable plant anywhere in the house in any way, shape or form, nor am I messing with the TV.
1. Why does the CC go stupid for a couple days every 28 days? It's happened 4 times in 4 months always on a Friday or Saturday.
2. What's the communication mechanism which makes the CC wake up and relearn what it knows (last iteration) or grant viewing on the channels?
3. Is there any mojo I can do on my end to induce a stupid CC to get smart again, or can I request something other than a "hit" from the 1-800 number?
TWC in Summerville, SC told me bringing in my TV's model number they can program a cable box free of charge. If I want a cable card a $30 tech visit is required. Why can't they program the card like the box in office?
etbetb~ can you get the information off the CP info screen in a failed state and post it here?
Jim~ from my understanding it is up to each division or cable provider on how they want to support installation of cc's. It can be done, but it would require you getting the card, installing it on your tv then calling them back with the host id and cc id. Then if something doesn't go right, they'd need to send somebody out to investigate, so I think it's easier for them to just send the tech in the first place. There are significant differences between staging a box vs. cc and to be honest, I prefer to be in the home in case there are any problems, rather then having to go out after the fact. Bringing in your TV model number is not going to help them do anything regardless of box or cc, that's a strange request.
mrcmt~ sorry I missed your posting back in jan. we haven't had 1.48 since early 2005
I'm the original poster (with the Mitsubishi WD52525 and WD62525). Just thought I'd bring you up-to-date on my cablecard experiences. There's both good news and bad, but mostly good.
First, TWC in San Diego relented on their programming and made it possible for me to receive all the channels. Originally, some channels were missing, and this was explained as a limitation of the cablecard. I finally contacted my local cable regulation board (a city agency), and they put some pressure on TWC. Two weeks later, TWC made an engineering breakthrough. This was in Sept/Oct '05.
After that, things went okay...until about 3 weeks ago. This was about the time (based on info received afterwards) that TWC went all digital. At that same time, I quit receiving video for the local baseball broadcast in HD. The audio came in, but not the video.
I put a call in to TWC, and they scheduled someone to come out and see what was up. They came out, put in a new cablecard, and then nothing worked. Since I did not have the most recent version of the Mitsubishi firmware, the problem was determined to be not resolvable until the firmware was upgraded.
So...I upgraded the firmware and then rescheduled the service call. On the night the service call was scheduled, the field tech called and said his supervisor told him to cancel the call, as the HD broadcast was no longer available to cablecards. I went high-and-right, and another tech was scheduled for the following day.
This tech came out and did several things the other techs did not do. He (a) checked to see that the signal was being received, (b) that the signal was within limits, (c) that the difference between dB levels for the high/low freqs were within an acceptable range, and then (d) hooked up a STB to verify the signal was coming in.
Interestingly, this tech also almost cancelled on me - due to the same info from the supervisors that the HD broadcast was not available for cablecard subscribers. Fortunately, the tech went the extra step to talk to an engineer - who informed him that everything should work.
Anyway, after he verified that everything was working okay and we should be getting a channel that we were not, he closed up and went back to the shop as there was nothing left for him to do (since I refused his offer of the STB). This was last Thursday.
Today, miraculously, both audio and video are available. I am now watching the "not available" channel in HD...and loving it. The colors and definition can't be beat...and I didn't have to cave and get the STB.
While TWC never called back to say what really happened, I'm fairly certain it was something with how the signals were being encoded and sent. I have an upgraded cablecard in my 62525, and an older cablecard in my 52525...and they both receive the broadcast. The real problem was that the TWC engineer knew the cablecards were supposed to work, and the TWC field techs knew that they didn't...but the two groups never communicated with each other. The engineer assumed the lack of complaints was due to the cards working properly, when the lack was actually due to the field techs assuming that the HD channel was not available to cablecard users.
So, the moral of the story is...
1) Before calling in the tech, make sure you have the latest firmware. This is a quick call to the manufacturer, and Mitsubishi FedEx's the firmware so it arrives in 1-2 days. If you don't do this, you're screwed if "swapping out cards" doesn't fix your problem.
2) Since you are a cablecard user, consider trying to get to a supervisor on the initial call. My experience is that TWC keeps sending field techs who have little experience with cablecards (less than 1000 in San Diego according to the last tech) and are just happy to get out of your house.
3) At a minimum, assuming you have the latest firmware installed, don't let the tech leave without making an attempt to (a) verify that the signal is available and the dB's are within acceptable limits, (b) talk to a supervisor to get things escalated while the tech is still onsite at your house, and (c) verify information with an engineer.
Can it be a hassle to get things working properly? Yes, this is "new technology" and not very many people are using it. Add to this the fact that the cable company keeps adding new techs, mix in a little lack-of-internal-communication, and you have a guaranteed recipe for customer headaches.
Is it worth it? You have to make the call for yourself. Right now, my answer is definitely "Yes". I knew going in that I would be a guinea pig, but the convenience, picture quality, and savings (two cards vice two HD STBs) is worth the periodic hassle. And besides, TWC cable is starting to take me seriously when I say something should work.
Quote... (a) verify that the signal is available and the dB's are within acceptable limits ... End quote
I learned early on to be extremely diligent about my signal levels, and BER (bit error rates). CC's can be frustrating. Typically, when I do a CC install, I knock on the door to let the customer know that I'm there, and then go immeditately to the pole and /or ped. Before coming in, there will be no old splitters, no old fittings, and no old cable if its proven to be bad. This can be time consuming, but its better to do this upfront than spending the time scratching your head to figure out you have a signal issue. Not only that, but in my opinion, it shows the customer that you have a reasonable concern to provide them with service.
