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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 151 Registered: Jul-05 | "As I pointed out in this column recently, the days of the deluxe, maximum-performance CRT-based RPTV are over. Even if you're smart enough to want one, and you're willing to pay for it, manufacturers can't afford to make them because only cheap CRT sets continue to sell in quantity. The CRT has been assigned to the back of the bus". http://www.guidetohometheater.com/michaelfremer/805mf/ |
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DLP Owner Unregistered guest | From the article, here is a statement that counters everything you have been saying! "For now, because they're (micro-displays) priced at a "sweet spot" between CRT-based RPTVs and flat-panel LCD and plasma sets, the market is hot, there's plenty of competition, and quality and performance are high." The only thing that will cause a drop in quality and performance is this statement, which by the way, was the death of CRT. "But once flat-panel prices fall to within striking distance, the RPTV microdisplay market will become price-driven, regardless of technology, and quality and performance will drop." I'll leave you with this from the article. "the days of the deluxe, maximum-performance CRT-based RPTV are over......manufacturers can't afford to make them because only cheap CRT sets continue to sell in quantity." Price driven forces have brought about the death of CRT, and with it, your argument to purchase one of any decent quality. Unfortunately, the same forces are predicted to trigger the demise in quality of any popular display technology and I don't see how plasma could be excluded. |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 152 Registered: Jul-05 | It does not counter everything. The author says if :even if you are SMART enough to want one" (RPCRT)..the manufacturers for FINACIAL resons will not make them becasue its CHEAPER to make a MORE expensive DLP....I don't see where my opinion is refuted at all. ITS a SHAME manufacturerws are making cheaper built DLPs and selling them for twice as much to a gullable public... He seems to be saying its not the CRT RP TVs that are bad. Its the manufacturers who will not make them becasue the DLPs are much cheaper.... I have said all along CRTs are too expensive to make. That is a shame becasue they are still more reliable and less expensive to the public who is being fed a bill of goods regarding the new fixed pixel displays ..... |
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DLP Owner Unregistered guest | Oh...it does counter everything you have been ranting...without a doubt. It says CRT quality has gone to hell and why. It says micro-displays are on top with quality. You're an idiot! |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 160 Registered: Jul-05 | "As I pointed out in this column recently, the days of the deluxe, maximum-performance CRT-based RPTV are over. Even if you're smart enough to want one, and you're willing to pay for it, manufacturers can't afford to make them because only cheap CRT sets continue to sell in quantity. The CRT has been assigned to the back of the bus. "Big deal," I hear some of you say, "that's yesterday's technology." Guess what's next to fall by the techno-wayside? Rear-projection microdisplays--LCD, LCoS, and DLP. That's right--and those are hardly "yesterday's technology." Within a few years, even companies that make and sell lots of them today predict that microdisplays will be a thing of the past and before they go, prices will drop and quality and performance will, of necessity, decline. the RPTV microdisplay market will become price-driven, regardless of technology, and quality and performance will drop--even if you're willing to spend more for a higher-performance set. So if you're into DLP or LCoS, the next generation of 1080p RPTVs may be the apogee before pricing pressures force a performance and quality decline. Sounds familiar, right?" Seems to me this guy is saying DLP tecnology is just a stopgap and quality and performance WILL decline...(duh) He never said CRTs are bad. He implies its a shame CRTs are relagated to the back of the bus as the new technology is more cost effective ...Cheap CRT sets are being sold and the more expensive to build RPCRT although a smart buy is not economically feasable for the maker. Of course not when they can get idiots to pay $3000 for a TV that is not as reliable LT and costs much less to make. |
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No Credibility, bongboy Unregistered guest | DLP Owner Unregistered guest Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 11:52 am: From the article, here is a statement that counters everything you have been saying! "For now, because they're (micro-displays) priced at a "sweet spot" between CRT-based RPTVs and flat-panel LCD and plasma sets, the market is hot, there's plenty of competition, and quality and performance are high." The only thing that will cause a drop in quality and performance is this statement, which by the way, was the death of CRT. "But once flat-panel prices fall to within striking distance, the RPTV microdisplay market will become price-driven, regardless of technology, and quality and performance will drop." I'll leave you with this from the article. "the days of the deluxe, maximum-performance CRT-based RPTV are over......manufacturers can't afford to make them because only cheap CRT sets continue to sell in quantity." Price driven forces have brought about the death of CRT, and with it, your argument to purchase one of any decent quality. Unfortunately, the same forces are predicted to trigger the demise in quality of any popular display technology and I don't see how plasma could be excluded. RE: http://www.guidetohometheater.com/michaelfremer/805mf/ |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 170 Registered: Jul-05 | This is the real quote that explains his stand: "As I pointed out in this column recently, the days of the deluxe, maximum-performance CRT-based RPTV are over. Even if you're smart enough to want one, and you're willing to pay for it, manufacturers can't afford to make them because only cheap CRT sets continue to sell in quantity. The CRT has been assigned to the back of the bus. "Big deal," I hear some of you say, "that's yesterday's technology." Guess what's next to fall by the techno-wayside? Rear-projection microdisplays--LCD, LCoS, and DLP. That's right--and those are hardly "yesterday's technology." cheap is a reference to price NOT quality. The implication is a smart person should want one but manufacturers can't afford to make them because only cheap CRT sets continue to sell in quantity and thats a shame. Because people are all caught up in the all flash no substance of fixed pixel which has NO reliability track record and a lot of issues. Ignorant geeks are driving the market...go figure. I cannot feel much empathy at their issues as they diod not do their homework. |
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Broken Record Bongboy Unregistered guest | DLP Owner Unregistered guest Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 11:52 am: From the article, here is a statement that counters everything you have been saying! "For now, because they're (micro-displays) priced at a "sweet spot" between CRT-based RPTVs and flat-panel LCD and plasma sets, the market is hot, there's plenty of competition, and quality and performance are high." The only thing that will cause a drop in quality and performance is this statement, which by the way, was the death of CRT. "But once flat-panel prices fall to within striking distance, the RPTV microdisplay market will become price-driven, regardless of technology, and quality and performance will drop." I'll leave you with this from the article. "the days of the deluxe, maximum-performance CRT-based RPTV are over......manufacturers can't afford to make them because only cheap CRT sets continue to sell in quantity." Price driven forces have brought about the death of CRT, and with it, your argument to purchase one of any decent quality. Unfortunately, the same forces are predicted to trigger the demise in quality of any popular display technology and I don't see how plasma could be excluded. RE: http://www.guidetohometheater.com/michaelfremer/805mf/ |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA Post Number: 981 Registered: Mar-05 | I'd put my rp mits diamond up against your rainbow tv any day D umb L oser P rick |
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New member Username: OnslaughtnemSavannah, Georgia USA Post Number: 6 Registered: Aug-05 | "Big deal," I hear some of you say, "that's yesterday's technology." Guess what's next to fall by the techno-wayside? Rear-projection microdisplays--LCD, LCoS, and DLP. That's right--and those are hardly "yesterday's technology." Um... you DO know that is how it is with ALL technology pretty much these days right? The moment you buy something, its going to be overshadowed by something else newer and better. If you wait for prices to come down, by that time a newer, shinier technology will be available that the public will want. That in turn will cost as much as the last thing they wanted in its infancy. You can sit and always wait for the newer technology, but you'll be waiting forever then. No technology is perfect. The internet just gives a voice to paranoia and the few instances where people have had issues with ANY technology. I've had a launch PS2 since day 01 and I've yet to have a SINGLE problem with it for example. Meanwhile I read how many people returned theirs due to DRE. So people start being civil, owning one type of tv doesnt make you better than someone else. |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 184 Registered: Jul-05 | I do not see that paranoia voice reflected here in the CRT threads...Well yes the issues are there but on TVs 7-10 years old. The paranoia issues on the DLP/RPLCDs are on Tvs less then 2 years old.....Go figure. YEs technology will be obsolete but not always by something better as evidanced by the poor reliablity complaints on the latest technology. Read the WEGA thread or the PAnny thread and the 908 Smasung problem thread, Lots of paranoia there. In this case It is my opinion people should wait until the technology is at least reliable for longer then 2 years before dropping thousands of dollars that will be lost forever. |
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New member Username: SteveaPost Number: 6 Registered: Jun-05 | Mr. Bong; My $1800 DLP works just fine. I was looking at a $1500 CRT RPTV the other day for comparision and had to snicker at the dull, washed-out picture quality. If I paid for "bleeding edge" technology, I don't mind bleeding a bit at all. CRT RPTV is a dinosaur with that giant meteor about ready to end it all. Better get out of the way! |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 187 Registered: Jul-05 | I will bet a CRT RPTV bought today goes much longer and ultimately out lasts any DLP or RP LCD. In fact I am SURE of it. You are so used to the bright overly contrasty in your face video look you have forgetten what actual film is supposed to look like and Im guessing it could look dull and washed out in comaprison. So be it. I'll take "dull and washed out" over comic book video any day of the week. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA Post Number: 993 Registered: Mar-05 | If you were doing this comparison in one of the big box stores around this country then I guess you cannot really make a comparison at all. The signals fed to those tv's are split at least a hundred times, which leads to a degraded picture, no where near what it would look like at home. Also, in those stores, the lighting is simular to daylight and if you were to set the contrast and black level to counteract this ambient light, then heck yes it's gonna be washed out. Now you take both those tv's home, run them through a setup dvd for picture levels, and I am sorry pal, the "quality" crt rptv will outshine most any newer style rptv out today. |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 194 Registered: Jul-05 | Amen..The FP displays would be even more comic book looking unrealistically bright and contrasty.... |
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Against the Rant Unregistered guest | Don't believe tom bong! He's a ranting repetative idiot. I'm not sure why he keeps repeating false information. It seems more like a self affirmation of his own propaganda. He acts like he's on some kind of self appointed mission to save us from technology advances. What a total moron! Buy what you want, when you want it. |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 232 Registered: Jul-05 | >>>>He acts like he's on some kind of self appointed mission to save us from technology advances.<< Change to: He acts like he's on some kind of self appointed mission to save us from very crappy, unreliable and expensive technology advances. |
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Against the Rant Unregistered guest | Bullsh!t propaganda! You are too stupid to be considered credible! What a dumbass! |
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Bronze Member Username: KevinpPost Number: 15 Registered: Aug-05 | Tom, You know you are onto something when people (or 1 person) starts speaking so vehemently against you. If someone was confident in their purchase, they wouldn't need to go on a crusdade to discredit someone who thinks otherwise. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1562 Registered: Feb-05 | Seems like there are at least a couple of folks on a crusade here. |
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Anonymous | Quotes from the link that tom bong posted in the samsung problems thread: "In the old days, color imaging was accomplished by tickling phosphors with an electron gun. Surprisingly, this system produced (and continues to produce) the most life-like images of all, which is why CRT front projectors are still preferred by a small number of high-end customers for home theater applications." "That's because CRTs are capable of a wide grayscale and can show images with very low luminance levels (shadow detail) as well as very high luminance levels (highlights) in the same scene. More importantly, when a CRT is idling, it is essentially shut off. I mean REALLY shut off, as in black. Not a deep gray, as you'll see with LCD, DLP, and LCoS projectors and AM LCD and plasma monitors." If you ask people who really know this technology, they will tell you that a properly calibrated CRT is the reference that all others are measured by. http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/shmontrast.htm |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 298 Registered: Jul-05 | People are buying inferior, incomplete, unreliable, expensive technology and rationalizing their way to bliss. The manufacturers of the inferior displays are getting a free ride on the backs of those nieve who apparently sincerely believe they have a great display. A display that only looks best in it's native resolution of which there is relatively little compelling content available and to add further insult costs another $200-$300 dollars every year or two for the privilage. Yeah, throw me in that briar patch!! |
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bong exposed as fraud Unregistered guest | A 2003 article that groups DLP black levels in with LCD and Plasma isn't very credible. Everyone knows that DLP black levels are matching CRT black levels while LCD is still unable to. Using wording from a 2003 article as your own is pretty lame. It's pure plagiarism. It's misleading and outdated. This proves beyond doubt that tom bong is a fraud. |
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Silver Member Username: Mr_lynchSeattle, WA Post Number: 828 Registered: Sep-04 | Tom- When properly callibrated, picture tube based CRT sets should have a better picture than LCD, DLP and LCoS. The blacks are much truer, but that's not why people buy a new set. Most people do NOT expect an absolutely perfect picture. So far your comparisons are not fair. When you talk about CRT being the "reference" for picture quality, your talking about picture tube based sets. You can not compare a picture tube based CRT (not available over 34" or so) to a 42"-60+" RP fixed pixel set. I'd rather have a very good 52" set, than a "reference" 34" TV. They cost about the same price too. The only CRT TV I would consider as a reference standard would be the new 34" SOny. Guess what? It cost $2200. You can find several 50"+ sets for that price. The CRT/LCD/DLP comparison is like comparing a Honda Civic to a Mini-van. they are not even in the same class. If you compare a Rear projection CRT of equal screen size to a fixed pixel display, I promise you 95% of the time people will choose the fixed pixel display. A rear projection CRT set weighs well over 200 lbs. My 52" JVC weighs 77 lbs. My JVC is 16" deep, a rear projection set is 2 1/2-3 ft deep. My JVC sits on a stand that holds all my components, a RP CRT needs a seperate component stand that takes up even more space. RP CRTs have a very narrow viewing "Sweet spot" and are very dim when viewed from above of below. My JVCs pictures looks the same sitting, standing or off to the side. A RP CRT will need a yearly "tuneup" to recallibrate the convergence, and each year your set will become dimmer and dimmer. It will not look as good in year 5, as it did when you bought it. I know, I have owned them before. My JVC will need a lamp replaced every 3-4 years, but it will look as good as day 1 with the new lamp. A RP CRT will need a "coolant" change, and possibly need a new CRT bulb or 2 later in it's life. This is not a cheap process. RP CRTs only display 480p/1080i for the most part. LCD/DLP/LCoS display 720p or 1080p. A progressive scan display is vastly superior to an interlaced display. Ever see a interlaced PC monitor? They don't make them. It is great that you love CRT sets and think that's the way people should go, but your going about it all wrong. The forum is designed to help people out, not attack them for their choices. Be helpful and respectful, not abusive, brash and bull headed. One last thing. I'm sorry to tell you this but most people will not agree with your opinions. But who cares, as long as your happy with what YOU bought. |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 302 Registered: Jul-05 | OF course most people on a user forum who are excited about new technology no matter how flawed will agree. I do not care to be agreed with by the fan boy set. I will however point out the flaws in the technolgy for those who do not want ot buy a new TV every two years to keep up. Or those who did not know becasue they were not told in the stores or even lied to by the manufacturers about bulb life and the additional costs involved. I will point them to the Panasonic and Sony WEGA threads regarding issues many are having with the same problems. Most who do not agree with me pass. A few respond with disdain and ridicule. Others try to correct my opinion which ultimaly was and is derived from reading these and other threads including "experts" and others. My warnings and opinion right or wrong is directed to the average JOE..not the hobbyist or those who marvel so much at the picture quality the content becomes irrelavant. They then can do their own research and disregard my meager opinion. |
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bong is a fraud Unregistered guest | "want ot buy" bong, your opinion is crap! Your composition is crap! You're a fraud and a liar! Move on, troll! |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 306 Registered: Jul-05 | NO Im not going anywhere. But I understand your urgency with that. My opinion is my own and based on what I have read here. I refuse nor do I need to defend it or my words. My words although ridden with typos and not proof read meticulously are there for those to read or ignore on theor own. They will form their own opinions and move on. None of your hundred names or postscalling me whatever will servw your purpose. You only serve to strengthen my resolve and prove my point. |
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Simple Truth Unregistered guest | "My opinion is my own and based on what I have read here." This may be your most accurate statement. It is your own and nobody elses. You took a handful of isolated posts that don't seem to repeat and have decided that you're the expert on the failure of micro-displays. It doesn't ring true for most people. As long as you are around spewing out your lies, I will be around to expose you for what you are. |
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Silver Member Username: XgrizzlyxPost Number: 106 Registered: Jul-04 | From the article, here is a statement that counters everything you have been saying! "For now, because they're (micro-displays) priced at a "sweet spot" between CRT-based RPTVs and flat-panel LCD and plasma sets, the market is hot, there's plenty of competition, and quality and performance are high." LOL this means That consumers are willing to pay dlp prices so they can have a clone of a technology the wish they could afforad. It's willing to pay more money for a less costly product that is similar or like (flat like) tv. Dlp owners should be outrage that manufactures are overcharging for a tv they produce at lower cost. In all actualality it should be crt prices of 3000 grand and DLp at 1500 or 2000 (most likely) to earn the manufactures the same profit margins. It's profits that is killing crts production not quality or being "out dated" The artical points out that "Even if you're smart enough to want one" that applies alot there He pretty much saying u dumb"but" quility and price crt is the way to go but since you want that flat planel but can affoard it the manufactures are prodicing a tv at cost alot less then a CRT with similar or like perforamance and quaility of CRT. He also points out a death of these displays Which means u will have to get something else because they will not manufacture parts for it either........................ |
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To Grizzly Unregistered guest | You're reading a lot into that article that isn't there. The research and developement expense is long gone from standard CRT. The quality interlaced image of CRT cannot be maintained above 40 inches. The level of value for the price is no longer in demmand. Therefore, it's CRT that will sunset with very few parts available over time. High Definition big screen micro-displays are still being developed. The research and developement expense is in full cycle. They are in high demmand. Everyone wants a bigger screen with a progressively scanned high quality detailed image. They are the future. They will cost more initially, but have already dropped in price drastically in the last year. They will support the new HD broadcasting standards. |
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Silver Member Username: XgrizzlyxPost Number: 109 Registered: Jul-04 | That makes sense Thanks |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 316 Registered: Jul-05 | >>>>The research and developement expense is long gone from standard CRT<<<< SOmebody needs to do some Homework!! http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/lg-samsung-try-to-save-the-crt/2005/08/18/ 1123958171967.html >>>It's profits that is killing crts production not quality or being "out dated"<<< Exactly...You see Grizzly when you delve a little deeper the real truth becomes clear. There are fan-boys seduced by a butterfly on a flower (typical real HD content)in HD and are willing to rationalize all kinds of reasons to spend thousands of dollars on flawed and old projection technology. DLP is an old woman with a new dress. It is not refined CRT technology although CRT is still the benchmark as you correctly point out. Even if it matched CRT in peformance the reliabilty is suspect and it only looks great when fed in it's native resolution. Not too much compelling content there as again you point out. It is my opinion that you are doing great research and asking the right questions. I also believe you will come to the same conclusion as did I. Spend less now and get more later. I would rather watch clamation heads on CNN or FOX for $1200 51" RPCRT then $2500+ on a 51" DLP. The HD content will look good enough and better then your 480i CRT on that $1200 HD RPCRT. With the $1500 you save (counting at least one cheap bulb) I will bet you will be able to buy an SED in a couple years that will rival any CRT at the same size and have still have a great 51" barely broken in for another room or a V game machine. I fail to see the flawed logic in that. My buddy Simple Truth or whatever he calls himself today will hound me and call me names but I am not bothered by him. His lack of class obviously silences his own followers lest they are viewed in the same light as this self appointed flag bearer of the illogical with more money then sense.. |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 317 Registered: Jul-05 | <<They will support the new HD broadcasting standards.<<< Another misleading statement!!! If you are speaking of the government mandated standards you are way off base. There are no HD standards mandated by the govenment or anyone. The govern ment mandated DTV is only a way of broadcasting. It has nothing to do with the content being HD. A brodacaster could convert a low data MPEG2 and broadcast it over DTV and it will still lool like crap. Sat is completely DTV already and the standard broadcast TV on ot looks terrible, Instead of all the analog snow artifacts, it has digital atrifacts which are then scaled and converted to further degrad the PQ.... the analogy best for DTV...a polished turd is STILL a turd.... |