I purchased a 4 year extended warranty (PSP) through Best Buy on my Samsung 50" DLP Monitor. Just had the bulb go out after about 18 months. I found out to my dismay that the bulb is not covered on the extended warranty, as it is considered a "consumable item". If your planning on buying an extended warranty, ask what is NOT covered and get it in writing. To have a 4 year warranty that does not cover the primary part of your TV is just plain fraud in my estimation.
Thanks Ken, great advice. Sorry to hear of your plight, will they meet you halfway on this ? Would you consider your's as heavy use or just average ? Thanks for the warning and hope things get worked out. Steve
John Reid
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Ken, Thanks for giving us the heads-up about your warranty issue.
However, you are being very overdramatic with your lightbulb going out after 18 months. Very few warranties cover the bulb after the "manufacturers warranty" period. eg 90 days Yes, that is a very short period of time and the consumer is getting the short end of the stick.
If you can get the bulb warrantied under the full term of your extended warranty, then more power to you.
There's no fraud here. There's definitely IGNORANCE on your part.
Your message should be: "Because of my ignorance, make sure you know what your covered for under an "Extended Warranty"!
That my friend is growing up and taking responsability!
I take issue with the "ignorance" statement. When a retailer sells an extended warranty as "an extension of the manufacturer's warranty" (which covers the bulb)the average consumer should be able to believe what they say. Nowhere in the extended warranty does it say that bulbs are excluded. I was told by a Best Buy representative that the bulb falls under "consumable products" which is detailed in the warranty as "knobs, remote controls, belts, etc." I guess they could say anything falls into the etc. category. I am not an expert on DLP technology nor is the average consumer. When the seller misrepresents their product (in this case the extended warranty)I call it fraud. You may call it whatever you want, but ignorance has nothing to do with it. My point in posting was to try to help others avoid the same problem, not to be told I needed to grow up. But I appreciate your input, no matter how poorly expressed. Hope I'm not being too overly dramatic for you.
Peas
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Hope I'm not being too overly dramatic for you.
DramaQueen deluxe if you ask me. Liberals want to be protected from themselves. Conservatives read the fine print.
It is the same as buying a new car, I bet you were pissed the first time you ran out of gas and called up your salesman and cried. I must agree, please grow up.
If my new car's headlight would have gone out during my extended warranty period I would have complained as well. Apparently you are much more intelligent than I am so I bow to your superior knowledge. By the way--it's pretty easy to say whatever you want when you don't have the guts to use your name. Excuse me for trying to help some other person from letting a big box provider screw them.
i was just in Best Buy looking at the Toshibas. i was told the extended warranty DID cover the bulb. in fact i was told this because i mentioned Crutchfields warranty is cheaper but did not cover the bulb.you should check this out with a manager and i will certainly look into it further when i'm out again. i hate to be lied to.
one more point...in both Circuit City ,and Best Buy I have been told ,as a selling point with the warranty ,that with just one replacement bulb ,the warranty would pretty much pay for itself (i was told the bulbs run about $300)at least here in Virginia ,the bulb is being pushed as a part of the EXTENDED warranty.
Strati
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Ken,
I agree with you saying "Buyer Beware", but you come across as "Look at me, the poor victim...I've been defrauded...."
YES, thank you for helping us all on this board by reminding us to make sure what we have been promised we should have it in writing.
You closed the deal and bought the extended warranty without making sure it was all in writing. Sorry, but I agree with the others. It's your mistake for not getting it in writing - This is NOT a FRAUD issue!
Lets all take YOUR MISTAKE and all learn from this:
TALK IS CHEAP - GET IT IN WRITING !
tnbubba
Unregistered guest
Posted on
i'm not sticking up for ken but i know what he means. i'd be willing to bet the average person looking at new tv's today doesn't even know "the bulb" exists. i've learned a bunch about these new tv's by reading these forums the past few months. it's a high dollar investment that i'm sure the average person knows nothing about. they just walk into bb or cc and the best looking screen is what they buy.
WhyTheRankor?
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Wow! I came here in an attempt to check out the forum software (Discus) and to see working examples. I chose this forum because I'm also interested in upgrading my TV soon. I can't believe Ken is being jumped on like this over a post ment to inform! I shall not be returning.
Strati
Unregistered guest
Posted on
tnbubba,
Yes, a lot of people come to this forum because they don't know much and want to get the knowledge, either prior or after their purchase.
The BIGGEST selling feature of the rear projection sets is the fact that they have a REPLACEABLE BULB. If someone didn't know that a light bulb existed prior to buying a $4000 TV set, then who's fault is that?
Peas
Unregistered guest
Posted on
"If my new car's headlight would have gone out during my extended warranty period I would have complained as well."
No surprise there plus it would not be covered on an auto warranty either.
" Apparently you are much more intelligent than I am...."
That much is evident by your posts.
"Excuse me for trying to help some other person from letting a big box provider screw them. "
Still after all this you do not realize that YOU HAVE NOT BEEN SCREWED! You got exactly what you paid for, read my lips, you got what you paid for. words to live by, "Caveat Emptor".
Peas
Will_i_am
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Read Ken Crass's original post again. It is a simple piece of information regarding an experience he had. Posted for our education. I learnt from Ken's post, to make sure, in writing, that the bulb is covered under warranty.
I have been enjoying this forum as one of the most friendly I've come across, until now. I'm sorry to see flamer's on this otherwise informative, TV forum. Who are you flamer's? Why would you attack someone posting a simple, informative post? Read Ken's original post again. If you have nothing useful to add, don't, so that this forum will be a place people will feel safe to post their experience, about TV.
Ken's extended warranty does not explicitly exclude the lamp and thus it should be covered. Even if Ken is wrong he does not deserve to be attacked with name-calling. Ken's post did not deserve such response.
Anyone else want to defend Ken and a keep flamer free forum?
William
John Reid
Unregistered guest
Posted on
William (Probably Ken's brother),
Ken wrote in his first posting: "To have a 4 year warranty that does not cover the primary part of your TV is just plain fraud in my estimation"
Y E S - We all learned for this. But as others stated above, it's not FRAUD.
A LOOSER WILL ALWAYS BLAME SOMEONE ELSE FOR THEIR MISTAKE / OVERSIGHT!
Will_i_am
Unregistered guest
Posted on
My mistake. I should have expected more of the same.
No, I am not Ken's Brother.
No, Ken is not a looser.
Name-calling does not help your point.
Even if Ken made a mistake, calling him a looser is not deserved. That would make all of us looser's.
Read Ken's post again. It is very simple, informative and clearly written.
William
John Reid
Unregistered guest
Posted on
William,
You missed the point.
Nobody is saying his message is not simple, informative, clearly written AND above all made us more aware of extended warranties.
But, save the dramatics of being "screwed" and that this is "fraud"!
Ken's attidute is no different that the teens you sued McDonald's because they became obese. Ken made us aware but is not humble enough to blame his ignorance. It's ok to be ignorant. That's why we're all on this forum.
It just takes a man to admit it!
I'm assuming you're both adulds and can move on to other issues.
Peas
Unregistered guest
Posted on
"Ken's extended warranty does not explicitly exclude the lamp and thus it should be covered."
Oh really????? I suppose his warranty doesn't specifically exclude it being attacked by an angry pack of hungry dogs either. Does that mean that if it happened his warranty should cover it? How about if he moves to an underwater cave and his whole TV shorts out, I doubt that is specifically excluded either. Get the point? Warranties specify what is specifically included and ocassionally a few specific exclusions but it should not be assumed that everything not mentioned in the warranty is included.
the people here attacking Ken (and anyone defending Ken) seem to be missing a point themselves. in reading about these sets ,i know i am not the only one being told by Best Buy and CC that the bulb IS COVERED. he has a right to feel this is fraud.he also has a right to feel any way he chooses and not expect to be attacked for it.very specifically BECAUSE of his post ,i will ask to see it in writing the next time i am told the bulb is covered. only Crutchfield ,whose extended warranty is the cheapest i have so far found ,has been honest enough to say that the bulb is not covered by their extended warranty.
Peas
Unregistered guest
Posted on
The Best Buy warranties sold today do cover the bulbs Charles. So you need to chill out and simply read the warranty. If you are too lazy as Ken was then come here and cry for us, we are tiring of using Ken as our whipping boy.
Peas
cjlove
Unregistered guest
Posted on
I found this forum while looking for others' opinions about whether the BB extended warranty would be advisable for the Toshiba 52HM84, which seems to be a very reliable HDTV. (We were also told the bulb is covered.) Judging by the previous posts, I may be attacked instead of helped. If so, guess I'll look elsewhere.
Jimbo in Dallas
Unregistered guest
Posted on
I was advised to get the 4 yr. BB extended service warranty specifically for the bulb replacement probability.
Anonymous
Posted on
where do you think most of BESTBUY'S profits come from?
I looking to buy a RPTV and just came from BB they said "Yes bulb replacment is covered" I asked fro them to point this out for me in the 4 year Performance Service plan. They could not but said it was.
if they can't point it out to you and it's not it writing ,i think you have your answer right there.when the bulb goes on the set ,you will be told ,as Ken was ,that it is not covered. who ever you spoke with tonight will, most likely ,no longer be working there and you'll pay for the bulb yourself.NEVER go by a salesman's word alone.these people will say anything to make a sale.a new BB just opened up near me in Virginia ,and the salespeople know very little about the sets ,or teh various technologies. BUT they all know how to push that very expensive extended warranty.the sad part is ,after reading the problems in these forums people are having with their sets ,an extended warranty seems like a must whether it covers the bulb or not.Cruthfields 5 year extended warranty at $349 has been the best deal i have found so far.
Anonymous
Posted on
"non-commission" salesman in these big box stores actually have kickers for pushing these junk warranties -that is why they harass you to death if you want to buy it outright
basically they want to believe although they just claimed minutes before in their sales pitch claimed X device is great, now that you actually WANT to be buy it, (by-the-way) X device is really such a piece of junk - that FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, you must purchase this warranty
LOL! Hard to believe how many a@@holes you can squeeze into one message. I hear ya ken. You are right, they tried to blow ya off, and you got pissed. You are right, the bulb is described as covered when they sell you the warranty. Salespeople will tell a guy anything to sell products. Don't bother with these low life trolls. Can ya believe that one jerk even tried to call you a blue stater!! LMFAO!!! These are probly the guys that had to buy the low end rear projector closeouts!! If I was you, I'd go down to get your bulb, and don't leave till you get it. I had a guy at sears try to sell me an extended warranty on a Samsung, for 2 years. He tried to tell me the Samsung warranty was only good for 90 days!! Thieves!! I dont trust any sales people these days.
island donny j
Unregistered guest
Posted on
looking for my dad bout waranty i found this
yeah funny old men
trolls are waranty sellers first they tell you how awesom the thing is then say ya need a waranty for a pensive tv cause it'll break ... then they troll and rip on you when you try to blast the game...
but i think trolls funny stupid old people its just tv stop ripping on good people
lady at best buy want me to buy waranty for game cube contoller she asked me 3 times i said no then asked her why it is gonna break should i not get it ? she turned red
So then, it's best to forget the extended warranty unless bulb replacment is covered in writting?
A year parts and labor 'should' be enough, save the $499 for a couple of bulbs.
sillyrabbit
Unregistered guest
Posted on
I'll throw my 2¢ in on this as there are some jackholes and felchers(i.e. John reid and Peas) here who haven't a clue as to Best Buys reputation. Best Buy is notoriously known for screwing customer,s as having been F*cked myself. I sent a computer in to be fixed and recieved it back eight months later without the problem being fixed. At which point I refused to pay the HFC revolving account of 6 mos sac, which is a story in and of itself. To make a long story short HFC got them to fix the motherboard, I paid HFC the entire $2600 and ended up with a computer that was a year and a half old with one month of use worth $800.
HFC informed me BB had the worst consumer rating of any major retailer so my condolensce to you Ken. By the way BB bought ought Magnolia recently so you might watch yourself there as well
If this is any indication as to how most threads are my first visit will be my last.
Anonymous
Posted on
Remember in these BIG BOX type stores, employees claim (some actually believe this) they are doing YOU a HUGE favor by jamming the extended warranty down your throat. We are supposed to believe they are running a charity.
FACT - ITS THE WAY THEY MAKE MONEY.
IF YOU WALK IN, LAY DOWN 1000 CASH FOR X COMPUTER on sale(e.g. loss leader category) AND SAY YOU WANT "NO EXTENDED WARRANTY" - it then will soon look like NORAD HEADQUARTERS DEFCON ALERT - panic sets in. You are messing with their profits - layers of people will be arrriving on the scene soon
Fact is, think about getting the extended warranty with your new DLP. Even though the light is not coverd by MOST if not all. I have been to a few stores that have older models still out on the floor that look like crap. Picture messing up ect.
Latino_spink
Unregistered guest
Posted on
About Best Buy not covering the bulb I think you're mistaken. I was wondering about that myself too so too my time to call their "Best Buy Hot Line" thingy. They said that starting 2-3 weeks ago all bulbs are definetely covered. So if that's the case I'll probably get their PSP (extended warranty) since I'm sure I'll burn the bulb within 5 years.
Peas
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Sillyrabbit if you need HFC (household finance corp) in order to buy a TV you are a deadbeat. Why should we listen to someone with crap for credit? Heck you probably couldn't even read the warranty coverage certificate. Are you able to sign your own name yet or do you just mark it with a big X ?
Peas
sillyrabbit
Unregistered guest
Posted on
lets see you loser f*ck, why wouldn't I leave my money in the market use their money for six mo. and then pay it off. You're such a dumbf*ck its simple economics you're compounded interest, dividends, market share valuation pay for it and you don't lose any capital ya welfare wh*re.
Peas- Wow, you are really being a jerk, do you need to post to boards acting like that just to feel better about your insecurities? Guess that's easy to understand as most conservatives are close minded simpletons.
(no offense to the kinder well mannered conservatives here)
tnbubba
Unregistered guest
Posted on
whew, i'm putting on my bullet proof vest sitting in front of this screen.
"Peas- Wow, you are really being a jerk, do you need to post to boards acting like that just to feel better about your insecurities? "
" Guess that's easy to understand as most conservatives are close minded simpletons. "
Pot-Kettle-Black, another (not so) brilliant post from a liberal with no concept of irony.
Peas
Peas
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Silly rabbit wrote: "why wouldn't I leave my money in the market use their money for six mo. and then pay it off. You're such a dumbf*ck its simple economics you're compounded interest, dividends, market share valuation pay for it and you don't lose any capital ya welfare wh*re."
Well well I suppose you think you can earn more than the 18 to 21% interest you are paying HFC in the market. It doesn't take a genius to understand that that ain't gonna happen nor that only deadbeats that cannot qualify for 0% interest for 18 months on their TV purchases will take out an HFC loan at outrageous rates. I bet you cannot even spell securities.
You are not foolong anyone but yourself, you sillyrabbit.
Peace and goodwill toward men. Jesus is coming back soon.
Tony B
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Hey.. the whole extended warranty thing does look misleading, so in essence maybe not "legally" a fraud but could be construed as deceptive advertising, which in fact the Better Business Bureau loves to look into (and sometimes even can get a resolution). Web Companies also HATE it when you go to the BBB, as a lookup on any company disputes remain on the BBB website until it's resolved. You could also contact your local state consumer advocate and *some* credit cards will work for you to resolve disputes, even after a period of time.
YourFatSister
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Umm Pes and John I will have to agree with everyone else on this one. If your going to ridicule one person for alerting us of another way big business can take advantage of the little guy then you will frighten others who might also have some helpful information for us. However, I find the Best Buy warranties to be quite useful. I had one Best Buy warranty in the past and I got a free 500$ camera because I had it.
PS John & Peas. Do you guys work for Best Buy?
DJ
Unregistered guest
Posted on
I was going to hook my playststion 2 up to my tv.I was wanting to know if it would hurt it, since it is a projection hd tv.Some people have told me it would, others say they had theirs hooked up for years with no problems.
PS: Ken, should have bought your tv at wal-mart they will take the tv back and give u a new one.(Just kidding)you really got to watch those places bb cc And yes, jesus is coming
sillyrabbit
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Peas: YOu stupid a$$hole HFC handles BB 0% financing! That's what I had you stupid a$$. What do you think BB is their own financial institution? You're such a retarded f*ck, get off your high horse. you still didn't answer the question and I will assume you never used financing to your advantage that's why you're still in the trailer park.
You're quite right I don't make 18 to 21% returns. Lets sse my AAPL made a 120% roi in 6 mo, my LOUD 160% roi in 6 mo shall I continue? I will admit my JDSU hasn't popped yet though I'm still ahead.
enjoy your lumpy eggnog and fruitcake
tvshopper
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Peas and John Reid,
What is your major defect!? Didn't your mama's love you enough!? Why do you feel like you have to attack people to make your point? This is a forum for sharing information not attacking people. So, back off or kindly leave.
Peas
Unregistered guest
Posted on
"Didn't your mama's love you enough!? "
My Momma Loved me three times a week until I moved out and joined the Salvation Army. Then Santa Claus began loving me late at night. I finally joined the Catholic Church and began to get loving from the Priest. All I am missing is a visit from Michael Jackson and my life would have been complete.
I started this thread to try to alert people about a potential rip-off. I cannot believe the direction it has taken. Where in the world does Peas get off with his pontificating? He seems to think he has all the answers, however his posts do not make any sense. He's not happy unless he can attack someone, and I'm sure he will attack me for writing this as well. GET A LIFE!
For anyone else who is interested, I have contacted the BBB and my states Dept. of Consumer Affairs on this issue. They all have contacted BB with my complaint and have copied me on their correspondence. I also notifed 3 of the local TV stations and they also are contacting BB through their consumer affairs departments. I may not get my bulb paid, but I refuse to just let this issue die. I WAS TOLD when I bought the PSP that the bulb was covered. When it comes time to pay up, they say it isn't. I've been told by several of you that this is not fraud. Fraud is defined in Webster's as 1.deceit; a trick 2. (law) dishonest practice;breach of confidence. Sure seems to fit my situation.
I hope that if nothing else, this thread has provided some entertainment for everyone. It sure has for me.
Will_i_am
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Ken - I'm 100% behind you. I'm glad to see you are standing up to a dishonest practice. Hopefully you'll get your bulb, if not, at least you've put on a good fight.
William
Terry M
Unregistered guest
Posted on
John Reid/Peas here is another Definition of fraud from lawinfo.com Deceitful conduct designed to manipulate another person to give something of value by (1) lying, (2) by repeating something that is or ought to have been known by the fraudulent party as false or suspect or (3) by concealing a fact from the other party which may have saved that party from being cheated. The existence of fraud will cause a court to void a contract and can give rise to criminal liability. In my opinion Ken is correct in stating his experience with BB is fraud. Any part not covered by the warranty should be excluded in writing if not excluded it is covered. Does this forum not have a moderator because peas/john Reid have repeatedly violated several rules. Thanks for the info Ken Terry
ken ,thank you for starting this thread. you have opened my eyes and made me rethink getting an extended warranty ,and buying at Best Buy.if i should decide on a warranty ,i know ,after reading all this ,i'll be reading it very carefully and asking questions.good luck to you with your fight. on another note ,I know there are people who feel they must "answer back" when they are attacked as people have been in this thread.people have come to this thread for information and instead have been attacked. before you feel the need to get into a war of words with one of these people ,i think you need to ask yourself "why bother?". what type of person would come to a forum about televisions to call people names ,and even worse to talk about Jesus ? there is no way these people are functioning in the real world and obviously they need the internet to hide behind.these are the people who in real life you would cross the street to avoid. they crave the attention they receive on the net ,by doing exactly what they have done here ,attacking people in ways they would NEVER GET AWAY with in real life.(imagine them walking into Best Buy and trying to verbally abuse people in the same way. wouldn't work ,would it ?)these guys are all over the internet ,in all types of forums and they always operate in the same way.no one is going to change them ,and so i go back to "why bother answering them at all?" if you look thru this thread and remove the various insults being hurtled back and forth ,there is some good info here to learn from. i know i have ,and that is true of this whole site.the attacks are laugable ,and to try to reason with these people is futile.
I think were all geting away from the big picture.The simple fact that Ken is just trying to spread his left wing crazines.Sure peas might be a dumbf*ck but lets not let Ken get away with poisioning us with his liberal views.
Peas
Unregistered guest
Posted on
"Sure peas might be a dumbf*ck but lets not let Ken get away with poisioning us with his liberal views."
Hey! I never said I was perfect, only that I was correct about Ken.
Peas
Anonymous
Posted on
THE TRUTH ABOUT EXTENDED WARRANTIES
Per Business Week article Dec 20th, 2004
1. Last yr extended warranties accounted for ALL of Circuit City's operating income and 1/2 of Best Buy's
2. Profit margins on such extended warranties are between 50 to 60% or on average 18 times the typical margin on the goods themselves
3. Both companies use every accounting loophole in the book to avoid making these numbers easily attainable by the average reader of their financial statements.
4. it was not until the mid-1990's that both companies, realizing the incredible profit potential of this segment, began pushing employees to sell these contracts in large numbers
I would read the extended warranty carefully, specifically the 'General Exclusions'. If something in here explicitly states it is excluded, then it's not covered. I see nothing here that excludes such thing as a bulb, which is in fact a 'Normal wear and tear usage item. On the back of the PSP, it clearly shows (at least on mine, under the 'Benefits': "Normal Wear and Tear/Usage" " Complete coverage if your product fails due to normal wear and tear/usage." I would say if they declined to cover your bulb, then you can file a claim with the BBB and your Consumer Affairs board, then file a claim in small claims court for breach of contract. You will win it for sure.
Anonymous
Posted on
EXTENDED WARRANTIES ARE THE BIGGEST RIP-OFF IN THE HISTORY OF CONSUMER ELECTRONICS
BEST BUY EMPLOYEES ARE BRAINWASHED INTO PUSHING THEM AT ANY COST NO MATTER WHAT THE CUSTOMER WANTS
HINT - you are always better with the product in your shopping cart wherever possible, since once the sales people ID you as a non-warranty buyer, the item all of a sudden may not be available
It could be "likely out of stock" or the sales people disappear for 15 minutes. POINT IS THEY WOULD RATHER NOT SELL IT TO YOU AND SAVE THE INVENTORY FOR ANOTHER WARRANTY BUYER
Good idea is to get the product first wherever possible, before they mark you
WHEN THEY ASK you to buy the extended warranty
SAY NO THE FIRST TIME THEY ASK
SAY NO THE SECOND TIME THEY ASK
SAY NO THE THIRD TIME THEY ASK
If BEST BUY offers a product for sale at X price, and in effect will only sell that product at X + Y price with with the extended warranty - THIS WOULD BE A FRAUD in nearly all states, and they seem to realize this
That is why ALL CASH IS BETTER,as they will be forced to sell the product as advertised or priced in the store
peas and john ried are idiots
Unregistered guest
Posted on
looser thread, pc.richards covered my bulb, ken is right, this is fraud. bb made the news in ny for there crapy tactics
This will be my last post here, as I wouldn't want to "poison anyone with my liberal views" (Lee Diddy is obviously just trying to stir the pot a bit). I guess if you try to take on big business your automatically labeled a liberal. We should all be like those fine Enron conservatives.
Well just so everyone is aware, I just received a call from Best Buy Corporate in response to my letter to the BBB. They are reimbursing me the $290 to replace the bulb and have guaranteed that the bulb will be covered for the balance of my extended warranty. According to the guy I spoke to, BB had not covered the bulb in the past, but due to the huge number of complaints, they have decided to in the future. I guess it pays to complain. I'll proudly wear the title of ignorant, left wing crazy, blue stater drama queen on my way into the bank with my check for $290.38 from Best Buy.
This was fraud and apparently BB knew it or they would not have been so quick to fix the problem.
Lessons learned for anyone who cares: If you think you got screwed, you probably did. Don't let anyone try to make you feel like it was your fault. Fight back and get the results you deserve.
As for as Peas, and John Reid, you can both kiss my a$$.
KEN ,your post made my day. congrads on fighting the big guys and winning.you were right all along and we all have something to learn from you.
Peas
Unregistered guest
Posted on
I'd have paid you $290.39 just to stop you from crying. As far as you being reimbursed proving fraud was committed, I bet you were on Scott Peterson's legal team. They didn't do so well now did they?
Great to hear it Ken and I must say that your post was both informative and active.Charles hampton-snow's post was great and really hit the nail on the head regarding the childish replies offered by several. I really think the moderator on this site could help by removing some the incoherent babbling offered by a few. I hope You and individuals like you continue to visit this forum and offer their insights. Steve
Xmas Peas
Unregistered guest
Posted on
The three ghosts of Christmas visited me last night. I've seen the error of my ways and am gratefull just to be alive. I'd must apologize to Ken and all the good people who supported Ken while I was being such a jerk. After reading all my posts it's obvious everything I said was stupid babble, which had no truth to the matter at hand. The Christmas spirit has made me realize that my behavior in this forum was not the least helpful nor honest. From now on I want to be a good little pea. I've been just a lonely little pea, looking for some attention on a TV forum. But now I found my carrots so I'm not lonely anymore. How pathetic was I? You can't reason with a silly pea. You guys should have ignored my babble, and focused on all the supportive people that stood behind Ken. I hope Ken is grateful for all the backing he got from so many. I wish I had been one of Ken's friends, instead of a pie hole.
Thats just great.Now Ken gets his light bulbs free.We already know he has a big screen tv and he most likley has a massive surround sound for it.He probably has a new SUV, lives in a big house overlooking a park,is a big shot at some fancy company were he gets free trips and alot of free golf and now he gets free light bulbs.Thats just great. Merry Christmas Peas
As a previous Circuit City Manager I have to say that employees are pushed to sell ESP or ELSE!! However, at the City, they will listen and usually honor what a salesman said or meet you half way. Their service is nationwide and on the computer for the period it is covered. Beast Buy requires YOU to keep up with the reciept or you just wasted the cost of the warantee as they don't have any readily accesable proof. I have had a laptop replaced at CCity for failing 3 times in the first year and I have been told tough luck at Beast Buy when my son couldn't find his reciept for his extended warantee.
Finally,, I guess John Reid has never been duped on anything he has bought and is perfect in all retail transactions. Thanks to Ken for reminding us that we need to read the Ext. War. pamphlet and not just listen to the babble of the sales rep. You Ken are not a whiner and you John are a knit picking idiot.
This certainly has been an interesting read this evening. I sure hope that the bulb on my DLP is covered under the PSP that I purchased. Especially since that was one thing that I asked 3 different salemen at 3 different Best Buy's before I purchased it and all three told me that it covered the bulb...and I hope so even more since it seems that my bulb has gone out on me after 3 months.
As for the validity of PSP's...we purchsed a refrigerator at Best Buy 4 years ago for about $1000. About 5 months ago we noticed that the inside walls were cracking. We called BB and they sent out a tech who said, yup, the walls are cracking. Here's a credit for $950...go pick out a new fridge. Now we have a brand new fridge that's better than the old one (and was cheaper) and all it cost us was $150 for a new 5 year warranty. I have to say I'm pretty happy we paid the extra cash for the PSP.
Anonymous
Posted on
COMMENTS FROM AN EMPLOYEE
"Best Buy offers what they call a 'Performance Service Plan' or a 'Performance Replacement Plan' on most of their products. This is not to be construed as an 'Extended Warranty' since it has nothing to do with any of the manufactures...this is more of a Best Buy only service contract. The problem with these is that they don't offer all that much benefit for the consumer. They can be pretty expensive most of the time and most customers are 'suckered' into buying them with the promise that they're product will be covered for 3 or so years with a 'No-Lemon' policy attached. The main problem with their service contracts is that they very seldom service any products in the store, most of the service is done at an off-site location, and the turn-around time is like 2-3 weeks (which in my opinion is way too long considering what you paid for service to begin with). From my own experience, the technical service that Best Buy offers with their service contracts is pretty poor. In the case of computers, alot of the more intensive problems are not solved in an efficient manner and end up costing the customer alot of time and money in the long run. Not good from a customer service point of view!
It is true that Best Buy is a non-commission environment...but there's some devious reasons for that. The main reason is that their philosophy is that the customer will feel less threatened and pressured from an employee if they make a non-commission statement. Although this sounds good and all, it has a serious drawback. Remember that I said that Best Buy doesn't make alot of profit on sales of products alone, right? That is because they require their sales associates to make sales on accessories, service plans, ISP signups, and other miscellaneous things that either the customer does not necessarily always need, want, or can afford. The end result is that a $9 employee is required to attach accessories and service to each and every major product sale and is pressured by the managers to do so.
It's all about the numbers people...that is pretty much all that any store cares about, that and revenue. Now this may sound all dandy from an investor point of view. Sure, the numbers are good, profits are good....but who really loses out on the deal? The customers...and in the end, the investors as well. The reason is that Best Buy then cares little on how knowledgeable their sales staff is. I'm in computer and I can tell you from experience that my Sales Manager could care less on what I know about computers. This attitude and philosophy ends up ruining the reputation and credibility of their company and chunk by chunk customers end up loosing faith in the store. The end result could mean that customers will buy the product for the lowest price...but will go elsewhere for their accessories, ISP, and service needs. As such, investors will end up loosing when all is said and done in the coming years."
Damon
Unregistered guest
Posted on
BB Employee, I have a quick question and hopefully you can help me understand this problem a little better. I've read the preivous posts and wonder should I have created my own new post. Anyway, I purchased a tv and had 6 repairs done to it within 6 months (definitely a lemon.) On the 6th repair BB authorized the repair technician to remove the tv from my house to repair it. This television should have been replaced in accordance with the PSP, right? Well, apparently BB from it cheaper to repair the tv instead of replacing it. The problem is that the repair technician ended up selling my tv without my permission and BB is saying that they are not responsible for the action or tv. I could not see that. I paid them extra to take care of my tv and then they let someone take my tv and are not responsible for it. Can YOU help me understand this? I have been going back and forth with them for a little over a year now. The other fact is that the repair technician does not disagree with the problem, but doesn't have the money to pay me back. So with that said, small claims court would be useless. Plus, he is self-employed, so trying to get the money from his employer is also useless. I am in the military and have consulted with my attorneys on-base and have sent letters to the repair technician and BB. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
Also, if anyone intelligent has anything to add please feel free. Otherwise, I would appreciate if you would hold your comments to yourself, thanks.
Go after the deep pockets, I would think the starting point would be BB. Try contacting BBB and then give a call to some consumer rights groups.If that fails I guess you would contact your states attorney's general office or even the local police department.I think the important thing to remember is BB authorized the tech(their agent) to remove the tv .The more noise you make at this point the greater the chances are something might get done.
Will_i_am
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Damon -
If the repair man is Best Buy's agent, why can't you sue BB? Have you taken BB to small claims yet? Is there a statement in your contract with BB that protects them?
A lawsuit and contacting Better Business Bureau, etc, may persuade BB to compensate you.
Makes my head spin what happened to you. If it's all true, Best Buy does not deserve our business.
William
tmdkelly
Unregistered guest
Posted on
I went to Bestbuy last weekend and spoke to 2 different sale Rep. One said NO and one said YES. I think you should talk to the manager and ask them show the statement about the bulb coverage.
I just had a BB tech out today to check my HLP4663 that is 2 months old and is shutting off and on and resetting and all the usual problems. He told me that 50% of these TV's that Samsung shipped have some type of problem with the power supply/bulb. He reset my "auto power" to off in the Service Menu and it seemed to help for about half an hour, but then the TV shut off again.
His explaination about the problem may have been repairman/BB/Samsung BS, but he ordered a new bulb and ballast and they are supposed to be here tomorrow. I guess in my case the bulb was covered. I'll give them the 3 tries to fix it and then we'll see if I need to go for something different.
First off, I am a current employee at a Best Buy in Saint Louis, MO, and I am tired of people constantly saying that all "big-box retail" employees are morons, and don't know what they are talking about. Please get to know the employee first, and if they can't adequately answer your questions, have them find someone who can. Now, I hope that this will clear many things up. According to you, you purchased the tv and service plan around 18 months ago. Up until June 2004, the consumable bulb was not covered under the performance plan. This is also true if you purchased the $250 service plan and not the current $400 service plan. Up until the last week or two, it would seem that besides other repairs, you would have to purchase the bulb yourself. However, Best Buy now provides retroactive coverage on the lamp. Also, check with the store you bought it from, and if you have already purchased it, then you may be entitled to a reimbursement. Be patient though, as most of the employees may not know about the new change. P.S.: As of yet, each brochure has yet to state that the bulb, or "consumable part" is covered. However, if you are worried about having documentation stating that it is covered, then your salesmen can provide for it, it is on the main page of his computer station. Thanks, and hope this helps.
Anonymous
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BEST BUY is an excellent store with fairly priced products, however let other fools subsidize their EXTENDED WARRANTIES aka "PSP's. No need to complicate a simple transaction.
Bring all cash, research the product yourself and know in advance the MANUFACTURER'S (FREE) WARRANTY - and you will do ok
Damon
Unregistered guest
Posted on
William, I am currently in the process of taking BB to small claims, I'll you guys know how that turns out.
FYI, BB stated that if a repair technician removes an item from your home and trips going out the door or has their business burglarized, the technician is responsible for the replacement and/or repair of the property, not BB. I can kind of see that, but I don't understand how they can't be ultimately responsible since you pay them extra to cover the merchandise and protect your investment.
the unknown former BB employee
Unregistered guest
Posted on
As a previous employee of Best Buy I would like to throw my two cents into this matter. I worked with the company for over a year and a half and have saw the good, the bad, and the downright ugly.
As far as employees making money off of selling the service plans I can only say that I wish. If that was the case I would be a lot better off finiacially and probaly continueing my career with Best Buy.
As far as some employees hounding people over buying service, that's exactly right, some people just don't know when to draw the line.
Managers do encourage people to sell service plans and accessories, there are no rewards or special incentives for doing so however. Most of the people I worked with during my time at Best Buy where honest and knowledgeable. If the salesperson you are dealing with seems to be a bser, more than likely he is. If you run into a bser the best thing to do is disengage and seek out other help. Also another tip is to actually know what you are talking about when looking a major purchase such as a tv or computer, you'll garner much more respect from the employee.
Somthing I think most people need to consider when shopping at one of the major retailers is these peole are paid to do a job. One aspect of their job is sell you a service contract. Most people like to be successful in career/job so don't be upset at the fact that these people are offering you a service plan. Whould you like it if you had to spend twenty minutes edjucating someone on buying a $400 computer and then be totally cut off when you offer them a $120 three year service plan? Give the person a chance to do their job, give them a valid reason for not purchasing the service plan, if they still act like a dick ask for a manager and be done with it.
However you should keep in mind that the ratio of saitisfied customers who have purchased a service plan far out-number the amount of people who have not be satisfied. People tend not to praise to loudly, but as human being we tend to let others know we are angry or upset.
Both Best Buy and Circuit city offer good plans, they both are comprehensive. The only downfall to either of them is the time it takes to service the item. I guess the major question you should probaly ask yourself when considering an extended warrenty/serivce policy is if you have more time or money, the other one is if it makes sense.
If your worried your being lied to the easiest way to find out is to ask a technician. If they're gung-hoe about rev. and being successful then they won't push the S.P. becuase they would rather you pay them big bucks to fix it. Most of the time tech's don't give a rat's a**, BB or CC is just their part-time job with a sweet discount, they have real jobs during the day.
As to the gentleman who is having problems with his sold TV, I wish you the best of luck and if you push I'm sure you can get something done, most managers are pushover's.
For those of you wondering, I am going to leave my name as anoyonmous due to legal reasons, not a fear of being flamed or called a name - I got over that in grade school.
As a current Best Buy employee working in Home Theater (please don't associate me with the stereotypical employee), I can say, without a doubt, that the PSP does now cover the bulbs. There was a memo sent out about 3 weeks ago saying that bulbs are now included under the coverage for all new and old plans, alike. The bulb, in your set, is covered. The store is lying to you in order to save some cash. I would recommend contacting corporate about it. If they give you a hard time, ask them to please reference the emplyee toolkit memo sent out pointing to the pdf which describes the additional coverage.
You made the right choice of getting the P on a set like that because, as is clear, the cost of replacing the bulb once is similar, if not greater, than the damn warranty. Unfortunately, the problem here is a dishonest store.
Anonymous
Posted on
AVOID EXTENDED WARRANTIES
BEST BUY and CIRCUIT CITY depend upon buyer ignorance to sell PSPs. They are CASH COWS financed by gullible buyers
As a Christmas gift my wife purchased A Sony Grand Wega KDF 50W655 Rear projection LCD TV for me. It arrive on December 23, 2004, and was not used until Dec 24. It worked great until all my friends showed up on January 1, for the bowl games. It came on for about 3 minutes and crashed, never to come on again. I notified Sears who told me that it would be two weeks before they could come out and honor Sony's waranty. is this a common problem with these Tvs? Should I upgrade to a differant type or stay away from Sony all together?
Wow that stinks,I'd try to push that as a doa set and bring it straight back to them for a full refund,no way you should be "punished" for buying from one of the nations oldest retailers. Do you still have the carton and all the inards stuff? If so take it back,heck take it back even if you don't. Let them worry about fixin' it and sell it as a scratch and dent later. As seen in this post some retailers will walk all over you if you don't put your foot down.Good luck.
Anonymous
Posted on
looks like defective merchandise - meaning full refund or full exchange. No "warranty" situation here
Damon
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Bryan, sorry to hear about your experience. I don't know too much about the sony product. But I have a Samsung DLP set and like it very much, especially HD and playing DVD's with DVI. It's awesome and highly recommended.
As someone who used to work for one of these Warranty companies - the following are the economics involved (with few exceptions):
1/2 of the selling price of the warranty goes to the selling store as profit.
1/2 of what goes to the 'warranty provider' is profit.
Of the remaining 25c on the dollar, approx 1/2 goes to pay for an insurance policy to cover the risk - balance goes to pay for the phone center, insurance, selling marketing & commission costs, kickers to the retailers sales team, etc.
Average risk of loss is between 5-10% depending on the item - that is 5-10% of the policies sold will have some claim.
Only if the policy is very inexpensive is it worth it - Sams Club sells with low margin, some on-lines won't take the full 50%, etc.
Otherwise, it is better to self-insure.
punkrockbob
Unregistered guest
Posted on
best buy did the exact same thing to my father ,who is older and I guess they thought was easy prey for the typical service contract scam pitch.
his bulb went out after 4 months and they fought me tooth and nail,so I told them to refund the amount for the service contract or they could deal with the local attorney general in my state, in the consumer protection division.
consumable item could be a diode,transistor,eprom,fan motor,capacitor, all electrical parts "could be consumed from heat"then the morons tried to play what the f do you know I showed them my electrical engineering credentials and they shut up.it's a shame best buy in particular ,have no shame in ripping people off knowing they have a deceitful service contract.
sears on other hand has never given me a mouments trouble with any a/v exchange or return.tell best buy your going to call your local consumer protection division,and if they don't respond DO IT!!!and report the scamy bast^rds. they gave me a refund. "bullsh!ts not an answer"
punkrockbob
Unregistered guest
Posted on
best buy did the exact same thing to my father ,who is older and I guess they thought was easy prey for the typical service contract scam pitch.
his bulb went out after 4 months and they fought me tooth and nail,so I told them to refund the amount for the service contract or they could deal with the local attorney general in my state, in the consumer protection division.
consumable item could be a diode,transistor,eprom,fan motor,capacitor, all electrical parts "could be consumed from heat"then the morons tried to play what the hell do you know I showed them my electrical engineering credentials and they shut up.it's a shame best buy in particular ,have no shame in ripping people off knowing they have a deceitful service contract.
sears on other hand has never given me a mouments trouble with any a/v exchange or return.tell best buy your going to call your local consumer protection division,and if they don't respond DO IT!!!and report the scamy rats. they gave me a refund. "bullsh!ts not an answer"
Anonymous
Posted on
BUSINESS WEEK reported in DEC 2004 that 1/2 of BEST BUY'S operating profit last yr apparently derived from extended warranties (and all of Circuit City's operating profit). They had to in effect use forensic accounting methodologies to figure this out because these BIG BOX stores do all they can to hide these facts from the public on their mandatory yearly SEC/GAAP required financial statements.
AVOID WARRANTIES, THEY ARE A RIPOFF AT THESE BIG BOX STORES
punkrockbob
Unregistered guest
Posted on
very informative and sick at the same time ! thanks anonymous !!
making money on a useless a contract is legal corruption and very shameful.don't let em grab by the b^LLS to line their fat pockets.
Anonymous
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BEST BUY is basically in business to sell EXTENDED WARRANTIES and MONSTER CABLES
Dank
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Just returned my HLP4663 (purchased in October) last night at BB after 3 unsuccessful repairs. They credited my purchase price, tax & PSP cost (less $25 for the 3 months I had the TV). They then applied that credit to the HLP4674 that I purchsed through the Magnolia department in the store (and they gave me 10% of the TV there as well, and I got an additional 47,500 points on my RewardZone card which should be good for another $15 back).
Yes, I could have gone through Samsung directly and would have probably gotten the same service...and I could have probably gotten the same replacement TV through them for the same additional amount that I paid, but it may have taken longer for the whole deal to be processed (they checked 3 stores before they were able to find a replacement for me), but all it cost me was $25. They put over $2000 into trying to fix my TV this time. If this same thing happens in 2 years, it will probably have cost me $200 worth of the PSP, but I'm going to be damn glad that it's going to be taken care of and I'm not going to be paying for the repair. And I'm not going to be paying $300 for a new bulb in the next 4 years.
Nobody is putting a gun to your head when you buy the PSP...you just need to know how it works so you can get what you're paying for.
Anonymous
Posted on
The mega-hotels in VEGAS were built by losers, and BEST BUY is being built by those foolish enough to buy these idiotic extended warranties
Its no wonder BestBuy hides their true "PSP" profits
punkrockbob
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Did anyone say they had a gun held to their head in previous conversation!?!?
your a one in a million lucky customer who had to be taken care so they can claim the extended warranty scam is ligit.
as anonymous points out ,vegas is built by losers but that doesn't mean no one ever "hits" or wins a jackpot once in a great while.they have to pay out sometimes to attract people to their casinos.
and you just happened to hit the BB jackpot,so as I said count your blessings your were put on the satisfied customer list that day.
all retail stores have to report customer satisfaction to watch dog groups ,and they have to put a certain amount of happy people per year on that list,or they can lose their right to sell service contracts from their local state consumer protection division.
it is a requirement they have to meet ...period!
I worked for the consumer protection division in my state for many years and know this to be a FACT.so don't feel to special just yet.
you hit the jackpot.
be glad you didn't go through the hell many others have and continue to go through. the courtrooms in you local area are full of service contract cases everyday, I guarantee it.
I went to court for this crap all the time,and believe me the people who were defending them selves from places like this, did "read " the contract and were lied to.
this has nothing to do with reading ,it's all about unethical business practices,in my case I know that my father read the contract he is a highly educated and world renown engineer that holds 27 u.s patents,he's not a fool,just a trusting consumer.
anonymous thanks for another good point!!
Dank
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Read up about 25 posts and you'll see that this isn't the 1st time that a PSP has worked out for me. I had a $1000 refrigerator replaced after 4 years that cost a $150 PSP (as well as a $100 CD walkman replaced after 2 years that cost me a $15 PSP). So, maybe I'm 1 in 333,333? Or maybe the Best Buy where I make most of my purchases is just staffed with a better quality of employee who aren't out to screw everyone who comes into the store?
All I know is that I've never had anyone force the PSP on me. They ask me if I want it and tell me what it includes...and if they don't, I ask them. I don't always buy it, but if I'm spending $500+ on an item and it has a 1 year warranty, but for an additional $50 I can get 4 an additonal 3 years of protection (plus get yearly service, new batteries, lamp replacement, etc...), why wouldn't I want to protect the investment?
Another example...I have a friend who spent $200 on a PS2. After a year and a half it stopped working and he had to buy a new one. Yes, by then the price was $150...but for a $20 investment at the time he bought the 1st one in a PSP he could have gotten it replaced for free. How would that have been a bad investment?
I could really care less how any retail companies hide their profits. I don't work for them and I haven't invested money in their stock. I just want to make sure that I'm am getting a good value on what I have paid for, and that if something goes wrong that I will be taken care of. It's no different than any insurance policy that you have. You pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for your car or home insurance year after year, and if your lucky you'll never have to use it. But what you're paying for is that slim possibility that you might need it. Insurance companies make a whole lot of money off that "possibility"...I don't see a big difference.
So, so far I have been fortunate, but I also don't look at the whole PSP situation as the retail stores trying to deceive all their customers so that they can get rich.
Dank
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Read up about 25 posts and you'll see that this isn't the 1st time that a PSP has worked out for me. I had a $1000 refrigerator replaced after 4 years that cost a $150 PSP (as well as a $100 CD walkman replaced after 2 years that cost me a $15 PSP). So, maybe I'm 1 in 333,333? Or maybe the Best Buy where I make most of my purchases is just staffed with a better quality of employee who aren't out to screw everyone who comes into the store?
All I know is that I've never had anyone force the PSP on me. They ask me if I want it and tell me what it includes...and if they don't, I ask them. I don't always buy it, but if I'm spending $500+ on an item and it has a 1 year warranty, but for an additional $50 I can get 4 an additonal 3 years of protection (plus get yearly service, new batteries, lamp replacement, etc...), why wouldn't I want to protect the investment?
Another example...I have a friend who spent $200 on a PS2. After a year and a half it stopped working and he had to buy a new one. Yes, by then the price was $150...but for a $20 investment at the time he bought the 1st one in a PSP he could have gotten it replaced for free. How would that have been a bad investment?
I could really care less how any retail companies hide their profits. I don't work for them and I haven't invested money in their stock. I just want to make sure that I'm am getting a good value on what I have paid for, and that if something goes wrong that I will be taken care of. It's no different than any insurance policy that you have. You pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for your car or home insurance year after year, and if your lucky you'll never have to use it. But what you're paying for is that slim possibility that you might need it. Insurance companies make a whole lot of money off that "possibility"...I don't see a big difference.
Maybe I have been fortunate so far...but I also don't look at the whole PSP situation just as a way the retail stores try to get rich by deceiving all their customers.
brad_52HM84
Unregistered guest
Posted on
got my Toshiba 52HM84 DLP yesterday from BB and the PSP DOES COVER THE BULB for 4 years.
Anonymous
Posted on
Some in here claim BEST BUY doesn't put a "gun to your head" on these sales contracts
However they often do the following
1. with computers, once they find out you are 100% certain you don't want the PSP, they delay getting the item off the shelf. In fact several times they tried to suggest to me they have some kind of mysterious stockout ALL OF A SUDDEN, and only by waiting it out was I able to buy the unit
2. once they told me if I insisted on buying a computer w/o the PSP, the "technicians" would firs have to uncrate it and have to check it out first before it left the store, even though I had a 1000 dollars cash in my hand, telling them I needed to complete the purchase. Eventually they admitted this special checkup really was not necessary
3. at various times, they have called in what appear to be closing specialists (floating salespeople within the store) who berate you basically calling you a dumbass for not purchasing the PSP
4. they at times have lied or misled about the manufacturer's warranty, and only would back down if I showed them a printed copy (obtained from the internet) of precisely what the manufacturer's warranty is
5. They have engaged in misleading statements for example saying "You realize after 30 days if X breaks you will own it" I have heard this more than once, my guess is that its in the training manuals, and its highly deceptive for the avg person as you ownership transfers at purchase no matter that they claim, with a takeback contingency if necessary within the 30 days.
6. On smaller items, small TV's, dvd players, for example if you put one in the cart, you end up being relentlessly harassed by various layers of salespeople to add the PSP, when you are merely trying to make it to the checkout counter
7. if you happen to go directly to checkout for example with smaller items, they also request you buy a PSP. Now they however have lines to contend with, so "no" means "no" and they accept it, and I have no problem with that
I like BESTBUY as a store, and I have bought 1/2 dozen computers there in the past 4 yrs, and thousands more for audio and video equipment, dvd's, gift certificates etc, however their practices with PSPs and the pressure they apply are borderline illegal. They appeat at times to be ATTEMPTING to deny a NON-PSP sale on major items for an all cash buyer, preferring instead to hold stock for PSP buyers.
Recently when buying anything I always come late at night near closing, make sure you I see the physical stock item, or better, load it into the cart, and when approached for the local ringup (if not done up front) tell them I am in a hurry, and here's the cash, and I need to buy it w/o the PSP, and "never use PSP's" Being tired and end of the day, most salepeople admit defeat, this is not a PSP deal
- and this strategy has been a bit more successful thank goodness
x best buy employee
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Dude,you with the glorious stories about the great service protection plan ,you have a horse shoe up your a$$ if they keep honoring your policy,and "dank" talk to me when the bulbs goes! as for now ride the false security carpet of bulb replacement,the punkrock guy hit the nail right on the head about the satisfaction list and the court cases,all that does exsist .
and only people on the inside of the bb organization know this aside from the consumer groups,so believe what he's saying he's a wiseman.
I worked there(bb) for 12.5 years and left because of customer ripoff issues just like all of the mentioned things on this post.I have seen many ugly service siduations,and they tell the psp covers the bulb all the time ,the only way you will get a new one is if the manufactor covers it and they don't tell you that and give bb all the credit ,selling you b.s. that its because you bought the psp.they simply just use the manufactors warranty to give themselves a good name."now that's honesty huh"!?!
punkrockbob
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Dank, how long have you worked for bb??!
that's the only explanation..Enuff said!
and if they do cover bulbs now it is a direct result of complaints and lawsuits.
Yes, BB puts pressure on you to get the PSP... it's a huge profit item for them and it allows them room to do lots of loss leader sales and negotiate prices/price match with savvy customers.
I worked there many eons ago during college before and after they introduced PSPs (and subsequently quotas and performance evaluations based on PSP sales). From their perspective I understand it all, and as a customer I tolerate it.
I bought my Sammy 46" DLP last night there. Got the price match with a local retailer I wanted (DIRT CHEAP I MIGHT ADD) and had already decided I wanted the PSP since they now cover bulbs (salesman and store manager confirmed this for me). I also bought a high end DVD player and they pushed hard on it, but I just weathered it and told them no - if you feel harrassed perhaps you are a type B personality and need to learn to assert yourself more???
I have bought a TV (Tosh 32"), home theater system (yamaha), fridge, washer and dryer there in the past two or three years. I always skip the PSP on low ticket items under a few hundred bucks or so and on the TV but get them on big ticket stuff. They came out and replaced a glass tray on my fridge under the PSP (warranty would not have covered it, for instance) and have come out to fix a bearing on a motor in my dryer as well... all without any fuss or delay.
But again, I didn't take any crap or allow any kind of run around. IF I feel that is happening I simply ask for a supervisor and if that doesn't work I get a manager... all in the same call or visit. If something is still unresolved I simply call BB customer support and they open a ticket and tell me to have the store manager call them if they are not willing to honor the policies and practices of the corporation and poof, instant anything you want and major league butt kissing from BB locally. IN fact, I called corporate cust service yesterday BEFORE going to buy my TV to ensure what the price matching policy was and to get a ticket opened in case they still refused to honor anything but national chains in matching (which is what they told me the night before when i was there kicking tires on several RPTV units) - when I went there last night I gave them my info (confirmed with numbers to call that it was in stock and indentical) for the price match and told them if they had a problem in honoring corporate policy they were to have the store manager call BB customer service with the ticket number.
A firm, insistent, informed customer gets what he or she pays for, as does a lazy and unknowledgeable person who allows themselves to be run over.
lol, if your going to buy an exp. tv, I would advise you not to buy from Best Buy. All they sell is low end tv's. My brother works at a local tv store(all they sell is high end tv's), and said that most of the repairs they do is from Best Buy, and Circuit City, we recently went into BB, and looked at every single tv, there was maybe 2 out of a hundred that actually had a decent screen. We were sorta suprized that they had a couple Hitachi's there, which were not suprizing when they were a couple of the few that had the best picture. We looked and it happened to be low end Hitachi, haha. But, even the low end Hitachi's have a better picture than most of the high end other brands. Anyways, when you purchase an exp. tv, do yourself a favor and buy a high end tv, you will get the most out of your money, I would recomend a Hitachi high end tv. There is alot of good tv's out there and guess what? I bet they build them with Hitachi parts;) Anyways, just a helpful hint to someone who doesn't know too much about tv's and wants to pay thousands for a tv, I would recomend an Hitachi. And Ken, I think that's the poster, thanks for the helpful hint, never would have thought about that,lol.
By the way, the reason Best Buy and other huge companies like that, are as big as they are is because they sell crap, usually at a low price. If I were to buy a tv, I would look online at multiple reviews. I always look for reviews on forums online, before I buy anything, that way I know what to expect when I buy something. Also when your looking for a tv just a helpful hint. look at the screen at the lines in the picture, most tv's have lines that go from side to side, the Hitachi's seem to have lines from top to bottom, check it out, it's kinda cool,lol.
BB EMPLOYEE: "The main problem with their service contracts is that they very seldom service any products in the store, most of the service is done at an off-site location" haha, I didn't see this post when I made my comments. That is correct, they don't do their own repairs usually, my brother says that when they repair BB tv's, that they are so cheaply produced, which basically means that they are a low end tv, build them cheap as possible. And usually the customer who brought the tv in to be fixed, usually buy's a tv with his store because they are so fed up with bringing their BB tv in to have repairs all the time. If your local store(small store who has been around for many years) doesn't sell a good tv, check out amazon.com, they have the cheapest high end tv's I've seen online, and offer free shipping! And read reviews on electronics, that way you will know what your getting yourself into. I'm done here, I hope I've saved a few potential BB customers
Extended coverage under the PSP includes the bulb if the bulb is defective. In other words, if the lamp hours are under, say, 50, and the lamp goes, then it's definitely defective and would be covered.
But anyone buying rear-projection (read: LCD/DLP as opposed to CRT) should be aware that lamps have a finite life, usually 2000 hours. Some go as high as 3000, some as low as 1000, but 2000 is the average.
So figure it out. If you work eight hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks of the year, that's 2000 hours. If you're watching the TV for an equal length of time, you're going to have to replace the lamp after one year....at a cost of about $350.
If the store disputes your claim about the lamp being defective, all you have to do is document the lamp hour usage. Anyone that won't cover a lamp going after 200 hours or less is not worth doing business with.
The new sammy's are covered for 8000 hours, checked it with store and corporate... older DLPs are covered for 3000 - 5000 hours (their half life).
punkrockbob
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Pat lazy?!?!? I am very informed when it comes to consumer issues ,I worked for the consumer protection division for 8 years and know just about every aspect there is to consumer education.
I know how many people I went to court with to defend them from bb's bull$hit psp,and many other big box stores that pull the same crap.so try to educate someone else about consumer awareness.
proof I am a smart shopper.
A. I purchased a hitachi B.I bought it somewhere other than b.b
end of story!!!!!!!!!
DLP for Me!
Unregistered guest
Posted on
At my house 8000 hours would be about 14 months. The Sammy warranty is 1 year parts and labor, period. That means 8760 hours based on 24/7/at 365 days use. They don't do it any other way folks. The factory warranty comes first. I'm sure BB knows this. Anyway, this thread is about extended warranties. Most don't cover the lamp, period. Very few will replace 1 lamp. After all, their in the biz to make money, not loose it on burned out lamps. Samsung told me that the price of a lamp will come way down this year and be available at CC, BB, and electronics stores everywhere for consumers to replace themselves, as is printed in the manuals. I've since found that the color wheel (slides in front of the lamp) is just as easy to replace. No big deal! The price will drop on it too! ($160 now)
BB will replace the lamps through the 4 year period. A recent policy adjustment, but it is global to all their RPTV sales now. The bulbs are getting cheap because of mass production, demand, and new technology... if you think they pay even half of the lowest street price, you are fooling yourself... it's nothing to them to half to replace a bulb a few times as long as your set continues to work okay... that's big profit for them and happy customers to boot (which is often a repeat customer).
And Bob, go scare someone else... whiner. Glad you are a fanboi of another brand and hate BB... good for you, but it doesn't change the fact that 95% of the people you may have dealt with in their dozens or perhaps hundreds (out of many 10's and perhaps hundreds of thousands of PSP buyers a year) simply didn't know what they are doing and didn't assert themselves. Thats where someone like you in your job comes in, and it's not right that any company give any paying consumer the run around, but that's life for ya. Having provided PSP and outside warranty support on TVs over the years as an independent contractor, I know there is value there as long as people know what they are getting and understand the way things tend to work (for better or worse).
punkrckbob
Unregistered guest
Posted on
f8ck yourself you jersey pinhead!
that's mr whiner to you boy!
It's clear to me you head is up bb a$$ and I really could care less .
no need to get personal with comments like that you f8ckn moron!
if you want to buy cheap big box store junk feel free I could give a f8ck less.
scare!?! your a real girlie man using the word scare ,who the f8ck is scared.
the only extended service plan that has ever been useful to me is the one that I bought with my harley,I know that if it were not for nieve little girls like yourself they would be losing on wallstreet everyday.
I take it your reading skills are as poor as your comprehension... you didn't even grasp one full sentence that I wrote and innevitably you were incapable of stringing together enough logic and proper english to reply in a coherent fashion.
Face it... you have your opinion, and it's flat out wrong. I personally HATE BB, having worked there, but I do know how things work. You have dealt with less than a tenth of one percent of the people who have bought product and PSPs at BB and seem to think you are an expert... here is a clue... you aren't.
Everybody and their mother knows, and thus I would think that someone of your previous work experience *snicker* woudl know, that the Internet is the gathering place of all those who are wronged (for real or otherwise) and that for every complaint about a product on the internet there are 100s or even 1000s of satisfied customers. Of those doing the complaining, most are just moaning and biatching to simply do so and feel better - some are victims on their own terms at their own hands, many are not, and it may not be right but don't assume that just because you heard it on the internet it's the gods honest, absolute truth... by extension you can say the same about your job in every respect; for every person you dealt with there were 100's or 1000's of people who didn't have a problem.
As I said before and you obviously missed, in a perfect world they would do right by everyone and there wouldn't be any pressure, etc. However, why should they... it's a corporate world and if you let ANYONE push you around or get the better of you it's YOUR FAULT. Idiots who can't be bothered to read the terms of what they are paying for (the PSP) and whom can't exert themselves to rightously demand and get what they have coming to them under those terms end up in your office... the 1 - 5% of folks who do get farked didn't deserve it and that's where you (albeit given how you carry yourself on these boards and the manner of your postings I know I wouldn't want you within a 1000 yards of any court where I had to fight them... man I bet you farked over a lot of people) and others like you (though hopefully better educated, deeply more knowledgeable, and more professional) step in.
While it would be fun to further engage in more verbal argument with you, it simply wouldn't be fair given the limited range or you abilities. And before you try and flex some more e-muscle just save it... I am not impressed here and wouldn't be impressed in real life at all by anything you care to try (and you have absolutely no who idea I am or what I can or can't do, so save it).
Why so angry I wonder? Has anyone reading this thread caught on to how big of a biased, undereducated, smack head 'punkrckbob' is *snicker*. Anyone that disagree's with him and his VERY limited experience and he resorts to insults and virtual muscle flexing. It is, as they say, to laugh... what a fkwad. He accuses me of bias towards BB, and yet he is as biased against them as he claims of me, and more.
Loser.
Anonymous
Posted on
Capitalist based economies have produced the most goods for more people than any other system in the world. Consider India's recent success as they move away from Hindu-socialism and China's amazing growth by permitting capitalistic enterprises and continue to move away from their communist/socialist model
However as they say: CAVEAT EMPTOR, which means "LET THE BEST BUY BUYER BEWARE"
I work for best buy as a sales man in computers, I know some people just think that the service plan or psp (IT IS NOT AN EXTENDED WARRENTY) is just a way for us to make a quick buck, and i know that it does make us some money, but the fact is, is that best buy has a deal with every manufacturer that they can return items that they do not sell or come back defective , and the manufacturer will give the store credit on new items that come out,most items that we replace are sent back to the manufacturer (DEVO as best buy employees call it)and are sold to whole salers and they sell it as refurbished, plus best buy has service centers and third party contractors that do all the work for cheap. All that explains how best buy is able to profit off the replacement and repair of items, as far as the performance service plan goes, in my opinion ,its great. I buy it on pretty much every thing i buy. i mean i would not buy it on some things like disk drives or small tv's or radios. but i have gotten it on alot of other stuff and its been a great value to me and my family, for instance, I had a system put in my car and bought an amplifier and a big subwoofer and had best buy install it, I turn the amp up as loud as it goes and it usually blows out once every 3 months. its nice beacuse i just come in , they replace every thing for me and hook it up. i mean it doesnt even have to be blown out , it could just not sound good. same thing on the phones, my mom has returned like 6 sets of phones because they sound "tinny" to her. i have replaced my lcd monitor like 4 times to pixel burn out, each time i get a larger monitor as the prices drop. i dont think that people know how to work the plan, i let every one know all the tricks that i use all the time. with computers we cover every thing in the box, remotes , mouses , keyboard, speakers, we have 24/7 tech support with people that speak english, you can always bring it in and talk to us, i mean the only thing we dont cover is phisical abuse, we do cover wear and tear which is nice on ps2 controllers cause the buttons wear out(only like 4 dollars for the plan). I think that when people complain on this site they are just mad cause they dont know how to work the system. and you can say "well you work there you should know the system" if you took 5 min when you bought the product and asked about it the Prod would have explained everything to you.
punkrockbob
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Here's some english for you, GO F*CK YOURSELF!
you probably live in your mothers basement!
who's angry!?!?
punkrockbob
Unregistered guest
Posted on
patty cox,
patty cox,
by the way ,that's not anger it's called "biker communication"
x bb employee
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Hey punkrock,
Ignore that pinhead he's one of those guys that work at bestbuy because they can get through college and pursue their dreams in the tech world.
I saw it all the time when i worked their, some of those guys thought they were highly educated scholars who had the world by the b*lls and coulden,t even pass college algebra.
so trying to school everyone else made them feel better about what they coulden't accomplish.
by the way the basement comment made me laugh for hours it's probably true.
I did check out you website you emailed me about the two patents you just got ,those inventions are awesome.
also thanks for helping me to fix that plasma problem ,you idea worked like a dream.I gotta say your one smart dude.
You know, this would be almost funny if it wasn't so pathetic... since you make some seriously erroneous guesses about me, let me clear things up... there is a reason I can speak in complete sentences and might have a clue about what I speak of... I am employed, have a good education, and have paid for everything I own since I was 16 years old...
I have a BS in Poli Sci and I am the IT Manager and WebMaster for a transatlantic company here in MidTown NYC, PC hardware reviewer slash editor for a top five traffic rated electronic entertainment news and reviews web site with 2.5 - 3 million readers a month reading my over 250 reviews and articles, and 14 years in IT with more certs at one time or another than you can shake a stick at. I did 8 years in the AF/ANG, have worked in corporate america as well as in big and small (mom & pop) sales oriented business, provided on site and phone technical support for PCs and networks at all levels (busines and to the consumer)
BB was a short term gig in college, thank you very much... and I didn't like it that much. I sold PC systems back in the day when they first got popular at a district leading store in IL and then moved on to run the tech bench and it's staff (inside and out) during a store remodel - this was during a period before BB had PSPs and after they rolled them out; I left when they started making employees push them and judged sales performance based on what essentially was a quota system. I hated PSPs, and I hated how the sales people went from generally knowledgeable to people who thought they knew but who only acted the roll so they could push off what ever the corp and management said they had to push (vs actually getting the right solution in people's hands based on real sales interaction, question and answers, etc).
While I don't have the world by the proverbial balls (no thanks), neither do you.
BB is not the devil incarnate, you are not exactly consumer authorities on the matter yourselves (nor am I, but at least I present a balanced opinion backed with experience from both sides of the counter), warranties can work for the customer or against them (it just depends on what type of person you are and how smart or dumb you approach things), and harley boy *big whoop* punka55bob has a narrow minded axe to grind that even a retarded 3rd grader can see.
What next... wanna insult me some more out of ignorance and frustration at your innability to communicate on a level higher than that of a cave man hammering at a keyboard with a club? Wanna threaten to kick my a55 with your oh so mighty e-harda55 muscles? Spare us all your useless venomn and rhetoric, dweebs. Some folks, as I have repeatedly said, do end up getting hosed for what ever reasons (often their own fault, but many times not) but for ever person who complains or gets hosed 100's or 1000's have no problems at all and get what they pay for. It's that farking simple... take your ill informed, axed grinding elsewhere.
I gotta show my wife this thread... the more I read xbb's and punka55bob's comments the more I am just tickled pink... I haven't laughed this hard in days, good stuff.
Basement... I wish, then I wouldnt' have these expensive as heck payments for our house here in NJ and all this damned insurance to pay. And don't get me started on taxes, car insurance on my cars, etc...
This is great... I almost hope you can manage to pound out another bunch of incoherient, poorly written, caveman posts with no idea what you are talking about while sputtering out seriously weak insults that have no real impact in an online forum. It's comedy gold!
I agree with you on most points, but one. I don't know if things are different in the States, but up here, what drags people down in terms of PSP is not how assertive they are, it's their lack of knowledge about the equipment.
I've been an AV tech for 20 years, and it always appalls me how people will shell out $3-$4K of their hard-earned bread on high-end electronics they know absolutely nothing about. How can you buy an RP/LCD without knowing about bulb life? How can you bring home a stereo system, and not have researched speakers? It boggles the mind.
With PSP, 95% of the time it's a cash grab, and usually, you're better off either contacting the manufacturer directly for a longer warranty, or just not bothering. However, if the PSP gives you peace of mind, then for God's sake RESEARCH what you're buying, ask INTELLIGENT questions about what is and isn't covered, and GET IT IN WRITING.
As for stuff being sold at big box stores like BB being somehow inferior to the same units being sold at specialty shops, that's utter nonsense. The reason that appears to happen is that the clientele at a place like BB don't have the cash to peruse in a specialty shop, so as a result they're not the ones that have carefully looked at what they're buying. They see a nice picture, say, "Yup, that's for me" and toodle off home with a huge piece of technology they kow nothing about. Someone who's going to drop another $2K on the same unit at a boutique is someone who is careful with his research, and knows how to get exactly what he can out of his purchase. (Just realized I'm being sexist...read "his" as "his/her"...sorry!)
I can offer proof of this. I've owned 6 large CRT televisions, 6 DVD players, umpteen VHS, 5 computers......do you know how many hardware problems I've had with all my equipment? Zero, zip, nada. And yet, I get into a forum like this, and I constantly read, "Oh, this didn't work, that's crap, what's wrong with this thing?"
It's all in the material, folks: do your research, you WON'T GET BURNED.
Lack of knowledge in what your buying is a huge problem... I totally agree.
With PSP, 95% of the time it's a cash grab, and usually, you're better off either contacting the manufacturer directly for a longer warranty, or just not bothering. However, if the PSP gives you peace of mind, then for God's sake RESEARCH what you're buying, ask INTELLIGENT questions about what is and isn't covered, and GET IT IN WRITING.
I disagree with the above. It's an effort by the company in question to turn a higher profit on an item, yes... absolutely. I don't view it as a cash grab however. On average most purchases work and don't come back... I don't know the percentage, but it can't be more than a 1/4 of major ticket items see a major, costly repair during the term of a PSP. Even at 1/4 of all PSP products coming back, 3/4ths aren't... this leaves the profit from those PSPs plus the product profit margins (which are thinner than many would suspect, unless you pay list or the 'sale' prices big stores offer on these big ticket items - not a smart idea). In addition, depending on what company is involved in selling the PSP and what arrangements they have made with manufacturers, they either get a discount on repair parts and replacement units (steep ones) for a minor kick back of the PSP price or they have arrangements to return items and get extended service through the PSP channel for customers and they kick back a nudge of the PSP - the box store takes a leading role in providing support, thus cutting the manufacturers costs as well (a few manufacturers do not do either however)... this spreads the damage of repairs all around and increases avg profit on items for all involved while giving consumers longer coverage and support on their purchase.
As always, PSP coverage and assistance by companies will vary from product to product, person to person, store to store, etc. There are obviously plenty of 'horror stories' to go around, but if even a significant minority of PSP purchasers were being ripped off the system would collapse as there would be lawsuits and the like on a class action level, which we don't see. Generally speaking, a company like BB may give you the run around on things (in fact, on some things like returns and what not, especially with media items, they make sure to do so and straddle a very thin line from the dictates of their policies - they try to discourage it, make it as difficult as possible, time consuming, etc... on purpose since there are plenty of timid folks who just 'take it in the tailpipe'. It's not right, now way at all, but it is the way of things in business) but if you know your rights, know the terms of your coverage, and stay on the offensive (assertive), you will get what you want in the vast majority of cases (that being repairs and service). It really is in stores interests to satisfy the majority of people with PSPs simply because it helps to promote them more in the future, helps with return sales, and keeps PSP dollars flowing inwards on the whole and increases profits, and helps them to avoid costly consume rights cases in the courts or through arbitration.
Dank
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Bob...despite what you (and others) may want to believe, I don't work for Best Buy and never have. I just happen to have one close to my house (as well as a Circuit City, Good Guys, Tweeters and many other assorted "high end" electronics stores), and I've always gotten good service and been taken care of when I've had problems. That's it.
I could care less if anyone chooses to shop at BB,CC or any particular store...but what I was originally responding to was the recurring theme of people who obviously have an agenda against these types of stores and seem to think that their sole purpose is to get rich by ripping off their customers by selling them PSP's & inferior equipment.
As for you personaly, I don't think I need to add anything to what's already been said by someone else.
x bb employee
Unregistered guest
Posted on
punkrock,
man you got em going..... your hilarious!
pat mentioned B.S. that sez it all,im sure he has plenty more of it.<b.s>..if you know what I mean.He's probably a bb cashier!!!!
now you got him running to his wife, sounds like he's whipped to me.
as far as credentials go blah,blah,blah IM sure he has two u.s. patents like youself hahahahhahah.
complete sentences what's this english class?!?!?
now whose angry!?!?!?!?
anyway your still right about the psp deal so f*ck em.
He has a B.S {yea right} and still wasn't smart enough to stay away from the sucker baited psp.
THE basement comment cracked my office up they said they gotta use that one on morons like him.......anyway
Im sure with those two patents you'll be laughing all the way to the bank.
these guys who bought psp's are just what they are"suckers".
I wanted to make sure that I wasn't being associated with the trolls.
Anonymous
Posted on
EXTENDED WARRANTIES ripoff
from Business Week article DEC 2004
Here's a secret two of the nation's largest consumer-electronics chains don't want investors to know. As TVs, portable DVD players, and other stuff fly off their shelves, Best Buy Co. (BBY ) and Circuit City Inc. (CC ) aren't banking on them to rake in the profits. Instead, they're counting on the extended warranty contracts that they sell aggressively along with the goods.
Warranties cost virtually nothing to market, and the products they insure rarely need repairs. Says FTN Midwest Securities Corp. analyst Daryl Boehringer: "It's just pure profit flowing down to the bottom line."
Last year, profits from warranties accounted for all of Circuit City's operating income and almost half of Best Buy's, say analysts. They figure that profit margins on contracts are between 50% and 60%. That's nearly 18 times the margin on the goods themselves. For example, a four-year contract on a $3,000 flat-panel TV costs about $400. Best Buy gives its insurers $160 and keeps $240 for itself.
But you won't find details of such fabulous returns in company financial statements. "We do not share information about specific profitability of any product or service sold at Best Buy," says Best Buy spokeswoman Sue Busch Nehring in an e-mail.
Accountants say the lack of detail raises questions about the transparency of earnings. And it's certainly information investors would want to know. Stiffer competition and an accelerating fall in the prices of big-ticket electronic items threatens those profits. "With their strong dependence on service-contract revenue, any pronounced slowdown would have a large negative impact on earnings," says Boehringer.
Indeed, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (WMT ) has jumped into consumer electronics in a big way and now controls 20% of the market. Best Buy, with $22 billion in sales in fiscal 2004, still has 31%. But Wal-Mart has passed Circuit City, which had $9.7 billion in sales last year and a 14% share.
Unlike the many specialist chains, Wal-Mart doesn't offer extended-service contracts; its lack of salespeople makes the contracts difficult to pitch. But if Wal-Mart, tempted by the eye-popping margins, decided to roll out its own line of warranties, it would have room to be even more cutthroat on electronics prices, and could conceivably undercut rivals on the warranty prices, too. Jim Sebastian, of SAFE LLC, a warranty consultancy, says he believes that Wal-Mart has tested contracts. Wal-Mart didn't return calls seeking comment.
GUESSING GAME As service contracts become more critical to its bottom line, Best Buy has actually cut back on disclosure. The Richfield (Minn.)-based chain doesn't report its warranty profits separately, though it used to give the percentage of sales that the contracts comprised. It stopped doing that after fiscal 2001 and buried the number in a revenue category labeled "other." Then for fiscal 2004 it stopped reporting the "other" category altogether.
Circuit City is more forthcoming. The Richmond (Va.)-based outfit reports how much revenue the contracts generate, along with the percentage of sales they make up -- but not the profit they produce. For the year ended Feb. 29, it said its warranty revenue totaled $326 million, or 3.3% of sales. Clearly, says SAFE's Sebastian, the retailers "don't want to disclose to J.Q. Public how much money they are making on these contracts."
Using details gleaned from industry sources, though, analyst Boehringer put together estimates of just how lucrative these contracts are. For the year ended Feb. 28, he estimates contract profits accounted for 45%, or $600 million, of Best Buy's $1.3 billion operating profit. He figures that without contract profits, Circuit City would have posted an operating loss from continuing operations of $195 million last year instead of a $564,000 profit.
Neither Best Buy or Circuit City will discuss why they don't disclose more about their warranty business. Best Buy's Nehring says the products and the contracts should be seen as inseparable. Circuit City spokesman William Cimino says the retailer stands by its financial reporting and adds: "We feel we give an appropriate amount of information."
Critics say the companies are taking advantage of a gray area of accounting that involves judgment calls. Charles Mulford, a Georgia Institute of Technology accounting professor and expert on financial transparency, says the companies could make a case that product and contract sales are so intertwined that they don't need to be reported separately. But he contends that the companies should treat warranty sales as a separate business and break out its revenues and profits.
Under guidelines from the rulemaking Financial Accounting Standards Board, the contracts meet one important test for separate treatment: They provide more than 10% of operating profits. The contracts also meet another FASB test because company execs clearly treat warranty sales separately when they discuss how to boost that business, says Paul R. Brown, an accounting professor at New York University's Stern School of Business.
What's more, generally accepted accounting principles, or GAAP, call for the release of any facts that are material to a business and significant enough to influence investors. The trend at Best Buy toward providing less information, Mulford says, "flies in the face of this new world calling for more transparency in accounting."
EARLY ADOPTERS Both Best Buy and Circuit City got serious about the warranty business in the mid-1990s. To jump-start contract sales, which then totaled less than 1% of revenue, Best Buy started pushing its employees to sell the contracts much harder. And it turned to insurance giant American International Group Inc. (AIG ) to underwrite the plans so it wouldn't have to insure the products itself. Circuit City, meanwhile, turned to insurer AON Corp. (AOC ) for much of its underwriting as it expanded its warranty sales.
For Best Buy, the strategic shift could not have been better timed. In the fourth quarter of fiscal 1996 -- when it disclosed that the contracts enjoyed higher margins than the products being insured -- Best Buy's operating profit fell 19%, owing to weak Christmas sales. Had it not enlisted AIG, its earnings would have been hit even harder. With AIG now carrying the risk of payments to repair or replace goods, Best Buy could book all the warranty revenue at the time of sale, instead of amortizing it over the life of the multiyear service contract.
At first, Best Buy was a little too aggressive in how it booked the new warranty revenue that streamed in. At the end of 1999, the Securities & Exchange Commission required Best Buy to restate earnings back through fiscal 1996, when it had turned to AIG. The problem? Even though Best Buy no longer carries the risk on the contracts, the chain is still held responsible for it under the laws of a handful of states where it has stores. So Best Buy had to readjust its results by amortizing contract revenue from those states, shaving a combined $49 million off operating profit for those four years, or 7%.
Now, there's reason for investors to be worried that the gusher of warranty revenues might slow. Contracts on expensive digital TVs with liquid-crystal displays, plus plasma TVs, account for well over half of such income at both retailers, analysts figure. But deflation on high-priced electronics is accelerating: Prices now fall by 45% every 18 months, nearly twice the rate of five years ago. As prices decline, consumers become less willing to buy the service plans, figuring that if their gadget breaks, they'll just buy a new one. The trend led to a fall last year in Circuit City's contract revenues to 3.3% of sales, from 3.6% the year before. So the company got employees to focus more intensely on selling contracts, a campaign that paid off in the latest quarter, when the figure kicked up to 4.1%.
Deflation isn't the only negative for investors. The retailers are in a sweet spot now as consumers switch from analog to digital TVs, but that transition will wind down in the next couple of years, analysts say. Soon investors may be wishing they could buy an extended warranty on profits at the electronics chains.
punkrockbob
Unregistered guest
Posted on
HEY Xbb you said it all!
"sucker bait"
if you pay the tuition long enough you'll get your degree.hehehehehehe
it's a shame that guy didn't drip onto the sheets instead of hitting the egg.
but it takes all kind of a$$holes to make the world go around,and to make bb rich.
well this is usally the case... people make the first nasty remark ,they get whats coming and can't take the heat.
He really has his pantie$ bunched up.. but im sure his mom will wash them for him as long as he stays in the basement.
he's crying about people on the post "boo hoo" who he don't approve of and he's the a$$hole who threw the mud first.
up until that ,this was about service plans!
what a mommas boy.
well it's back to technical posting for me "x" this guys like a girl ,he's not going to shut his pie hole and he won't let it die.
typical female behavior!!!!heheh
before I go "x"could you check my english?!?!? heheheheh if it's good I want a sticker.
but if you haven't got the time im sure cox sucker will,or maybe not it might be tea time for the highly educated moron that can't even get into his service menu. hahahhahahahahahahahahah
*shrugs* you got me... once I figure out what you actually said.
The only thing worth saying at this point, since you have proven me 100% correct, is that you are the one with undies in a bunch and doing all the b1tching and complaining (As far as I can tell, you are almost talking in another language here).
Too funny really... every time you open your mouth you shove your foot in up to your knee... bet that's a talent your boyfriend truely likes - guess we know who's riding at the bike of the harley, don't we. Heh.
And no Dank, and anyone else bothering with this now joke of a thread, nothing I said pertained to you or anyone other than cockinmouthbob and his butt buddy boyfriend who joined him here on the thread to defend his girlish honor.
punkrockbob
Unregistered guest
Posted on
no really it's mycocksincoxswifesmouth for me ask her ,she loves bikers!
you should have dripped down your mommas leg and did us all a favor boy.HEHEHHEHHEHEHE.
you coulden't handle a harley.. boy! ,you can't even handle reality.
the people I ride with would f*ck with you and make you cry or run back to your mothers basement,you sorry sack of inexcusable sh!t.
Lets see, you giggle like a little biotch, can't speak in complete sentences, are obviously very disturbed and angered by someone calling you out on which side of the pole you take it, and claim all this manly shiat which everyone here can obviously tell is fake... ladies and gents, meet one angry 14 year old troll.
God you are pathetic, you can't even lie convincingly, can't put together a single decent insult, can't write in your primary language to save your a55, and dont' even realize when your punk a55 has been owned in every single exchange you have tried. Your pathetic punk, a waste of valuable air and it disgusts me - why the fark cant we get some enforced birth control in this country so little useless turds like you are never even born?
Now take your lame, axe grinding, uninformed, illiterate tail home and let someone there at the public library use the computer for something more educational than trying to get their proverbial jollies off.
x and the guys
Unregistered guest
Posted on
ANGRY?1?!?!?cox
hey punkrock my office has the score! punkrock:4 cox:0
everyone has the post pulled up on their laptops in my office and you have them laughing their a$$ off ,they actually said they feel bad for cox because he just uses the same "bad english" comment over and over he's weak and has no retort.
also if you read various threads on this forum you will see that your not the only person who can't stand this arrogant p.o.s.
he's a crybaby.
good point.... this started out as a conversation about psp and he started to sling mud. your right he can't take the heat!
I bet bb does honor his psp just so he doesn't throw a pansy a$$ tantrum on the floor.
x bb employee
punkrockbob
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Hey x
glad I could loosen up the office for you guys,but that's not the point of this .
IM done with the psp post this kids getting on my nerves,using my own insults now because he is weak.
coxsucker I don't give a flyin f*ck if your convinced or not ,I know who and what I am and you'll never accomplish in a lifetime what I have done in 38 years,2 u.s.patents! if you think it's a lie I could give a f*ck less!
so crawl back down into mommas basement,cuddle up with her and get some fresh n!pple milk, you ebonic speaking, pansy a$$, bb cashier.
don't waste your time trying to insult me because your weak and cowardly, when I served in the marines little momma boys like you just ran their mouths like girlscouts .
and as I have said ,you act like a female and I know this could go on forever if someone don't put an end to it,also your female behavior will enable you to post the last comment because female always want the last word.
It's like 1000 monkeys in a room trying to type shakespear... eventually they are lucky enough to end up with some words on the page, but it never makes any sense. Good stuff though kid, keep it up.
And, btw... posting multiple times in different anon names doesn't paint your cause in a better light. If you are going to do it, at least use a different text style and diction... everyone here knows its you no matter what anon name you assume and guise you try to take... the line breaks, wording, spelling, grammar... it's all the same and quite clearly the same person posting it... damned pathetic.
*snicker*
And one last thing before I leave you to stew while this forum and several others now checking in are watching you make an a55 out of yourself... the only person thowing around venomn, the person to do it first, was you... re-read the thread and post order fool. You can't disguise your lack of intelligence, your obvious axe grinding, and your innability to defense your position.
Although we already had game set and match a few posts back with your tail being roundly owned (not that you are remotely bright enough to understand that concept), your last couple of lame posts are just icing on the cake. Thanks for the chuckles, you gave me and many hundreds of other people a nice laugh all around the net.
x bb employee
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Hey punkrock,
man you were right he's like a female she gave the last word.
I guess having a girls job like bb cashier really does take it's toll her.
LMAO, I just remembered I posted that Best Buy sells low end TV's And I was thinkin of Circuit City, hahahaha, Best Buy carries everything actually from low end to high end TV's oops :p
