After reading a few threads regarding the Pioneer DV-563A CD/DVD-V/DVD-A/SACD/MP3 player, I picked up the player from Best Buy for $179. While doing the research I noticed this tech information on Crutchfield's web site.
"Digital Audio Output Capabilities: When multichannel DVD Audio is played through the digital outputs, it is downmixed to 2-channel stereo before being passed by the digital outputs. Also, depending on the disc, when a DVD-Audio disc using a sampling rate of 192kHz or 176.4kHz is played, the sampling rate will be down-converted to 96kHz for playback through the digital outputs. Some DVD-Audio signals and all SACD signals will be available only through the analog outputs. The digital outputs are capable of passing linear PCM digital signals from DVD Video discs with sampling rates as high as 96kHz. If a DVD Video disc with 96kHz sampling rate is copy-protected, the unit will down-convert the sampling frequency to 48kHz before passing the signal through the digital outputs."
Shockingly, the Panasonic DVD-RP91 has a similar downconversion system. It seems the digital output, even when it works, may not be full fidelity.
My Denon 1803 digitizes all audio. I am rigging up and Adcom four channel staight amp and a PS-Audio Elite plus intergrated amp for an all-analog listening test of The Dark Side of the Moon SACD I purchased. I'll report back...
So far this is THE best DVD picture I have ever seen, easily blowing away my one year old Philips 724S and my nForce-II ATI AIW 8500-DV HTPC. This thing has 10bit video DACs compared to Panasonic 12bit DACs and can play a very damaged copy of Croutching Tiger Hidden Dragon's 1:20:9 layer chaange. It can play 320KBps and VBR MP3s (some players can't) but totally ignores WMAs.
More to come...
Derek
Posted on
The Sound
First off, this isn't really a fair fight. To hear the Analog audio I compared a Denon 1803 with an optical input and an Athena Point 5 to the same speakers in an all-analog rig. For Analog amplification I used an Adcom GFA-2535 in three channel mode for the Left, Center and Right front and a PS-Audio Elite Plus for the rears. Everything was connected using banana plugs for quick speaker swaps. The Denon was always connected through an optical connection. Levels were matched with a Radio Shack SPL Meter and Tone and DSPs were bypassed with the Denons Direct Mode.
The Adcom has a frequency response of 7Hz to 150KHz (-3). The Denon is rated 10Hz to 150KHz for the amplifyer section. Both are plenty for SACD and DVD-A and I am sure beyond my range of my hearing. I used the DV-563A's bass management and volume control to listen to the same speakers and sub.
I have an original Pink Floyd Darkside of the Moon, a Mobile Fidelity version and an SACD version. The SACD version sounds very different especially the bells in Time. The mix in the SADC is boader and more subtle while at the same time being more powerful. This has always been a good track to test with. That's the only comparable SACD I own and I haven't found anything on DVD-A that I already own on a stereo CD. A few stereo CD from Telarc and Chesky Record CDs including Dafos and The Ultimate Demonstartion Disc all sounded the same. Police's Sycronicity on Mobile Fidelity and Basia's Sweetest Illusion CD also sounde the same both ways.
The oscilloscope trace of the CBS CD-1 Test Disc, track 21 Monotonicity test was much cleaner than I have ever seen, though I couldn't hear a difference.
Everything sounds very similar for movie DVDs; No grunge, smooth bass, low noise. I was surprised [and disappointed] the treble didn't sound more extended or faster on the Analog rig. Where they differed was in imaging. The all-Analog rig had MUCH broader and deeper imaging than the Denon for everything I sent through it except MP3s. The 5.1 discreet channels seemed to disappear, not liked the weak separation of Pro-Logic, but more like smooth transitions between the channels. The Adcom usually sounds neutral and a little dry - just like the Denon. The PS Audio usually sounds zingy and exciting, which is why I relegated it to the rears. I didn't want its lusty sound to taint the test much. The Denon could put the sound up but the Adcom had slightly better texture and smooth focus. Maybee Denon should upgrade all of thier receivers to 192KHz DACs.
There is only one D/A conversion in both systems so they should sound exactly the same. I suspect the Denon is doing a slightly poorer job at controlling the 5.1 channel volume in the digital domain than the Pioneer or the Denon has an inferior amplifier section when compared to the Adcom/PS Audio pair. If only the Denon had Preamp Inputs, a more direct comparison could be made.
Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan and Star Wars Episode II had their usual brutal sound. The Point 5s sub is no brute (Damn! I wish I still had my HSU VTF-2). I did notice that the Pioneer's Pro-Logic and Dolby Digital bass output in The Fifth Element sounded exactly the same. Usually this movie has more bass on the two channel Pro-Logic track.
The Picture
As for the video, I tried comparing the Pioneer to a Philips 724S. At the time (last year), the Philips was the cheapest progressive scan 3:2 pull-down player on the market at $129. I used the Superbit version of The Fifth Element and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. These two movies are full of bright colors and diagonal lines. The first few minutes of 12 Monkeys and some of the laser rangefinder beams in Predator tax the component video out - My two HTPCs just aren't up to the task even though they have ATI video cards. The Pioneer could pull more detail (fingerprints and dust) from objects on screen. This is also the first DVD player I have ever seen to pass the blinking light scene in the movie Independence Day. The President speaks to the Alien in a underground bunker in the scene and there are lights blinking all over the place. Most DVD players throw away half of the fast blinking horizontal lines (causing stripes) or lower their brightness.
The two players looked the same under Avia except the moving and stationary resolution patterns. The Pioneer showed less ringing and slightly lower blacks. Looking through the filters produced the same hue and color intensity settings for both players (once the television was calibrated with ColorVision's Optical). I zoomed some of the S-Video output using the ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon 8500-DV and there was no dotcrawl.
The Pioneer could also play the layer change at 80:10 in a damaged standard version of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon I have. I have never seen any DVD player play this disk except for one of my three computers. Burned CD-R and CD-RWs were no problem except the Pioneer couldn't play El-Torro (Realtime, mounted CD-RW written to by XP). This isn't unusual, though.
Final Results
For a $179 Swiss Army DVD player with smooth video, hi-res audio a decent remote. This thing's not bad at all. I'll be retiring the Philips onto the stack of other A/V equipment I have in the closet and move on. I can't imagine a better deal on a high quality player. The Video stands out as first-rate to my eyss. SACD and DVD-A are just icing on the cake.
Hope this helps.
Derek
Posted on
Now Pioneer makes a HDMI complient player with firewire. See http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/press/pr2792.html.
Franklin
Posted on
I have the dv-563a and hk325. I attached the 6 rca connections for dvd-a and optical for movies. I recently got Inside the Music ClassicJazz for dvd-a/6 channel. When I switch between using the optical and 6 channel out, the optical w/ dolby pl ii sounds much fuller. The 6 channel output sounds thin. Did I miss something? Any ideas?
I have a Pioneer DV-563A too and of course it will down-convert the signal from a DVD Audio because the sampling frequency (96kHz x 6 channels or 192kHz x 2 channels) exceeds the bandwidth of the coaxial or optical output, thus any DVD Audio player that has only these outputs will down-convert the signal. But that is not an issue if you have a receiver that has an analog multichannel input. Instead you can use the multichannel analog outputs of your DV-563A (it has an internal 192kHz DAC). If you want to use a digital output you should buy a DVD Player that has an IEEE1394 (Firewire) output, like Pioneer's Elite DVD Players.
Derek
Posted on
96x6 and 192x2 do not exceed the bandwidth of coax or optical. This is part of the DVD standard and quite a few movies use those settings.
DVD-A usually disables the digital jack to prevent digital copying. It doesn't matter though - most people don't have 192KHz decoders. So it's going to be downconverted anyway. Go to www.crutchfield.com and look at the specs for Pioneer and Panasonic 192KHz DVD players - most downconvert EVERYTHING wheather you use the digital or ANALOG jacks.
Did I mention that there were only about 3 pairs of speakers with the 90KHz+ bandwidth to actually hear a 192KHz signal.
There are a lot of things conspiring against you to prevent you from hearing all that a DVD can do.