JVC D-ILA Vs. Sony KF50WE620 Vs. Toshiba 62HM84

 

New member
Username: Sp0rtz

Post Number: 8
Registered: Jan-05
Hi Everyone,

I have been doing a ton of reading and researching every brand of tv's for the past few weeks, approx 3 hours per day. Seems Like I have narrowed my research down to 3 tv's. I have opinions on these sets and was wondering if you could add anymore input to this. This TV will be used to watch Sports in HD, playing xbox and watching DVD's.

The JVC D-ILA:
I went to Best Buy last night and didn't see anything spectacular. The Best Buy Rep said they don't sell very many of them either. The picture sharpness didn't look that great :-( which was a real concern, but I have read so many posts on here that it's the tv to buy. Now after saying that, I also heard it's one of the only tv's on the market that won't lag at all while playing xbox with fast paced games (Can anyone respond to this). What else should I know about this set?

The Sony KF50WE620:
This is a very nice tv. I don't have too many complaints with it other than the fast it's a RP-LCD type tv and I have read when you play fast moving games on this tv you will see a slight bit of a lag, which would be a major downfall, but since I don't have the tv, I'm not sure. Also the objects in the picture won't have as sharp of lines around the border? and the blacks aren't as black as other tv's.

Toshiba 62HM84 DLP:
I feel in love with this TV just lokoing at it before I was even serious about buying a tv, but have since read a lot of problems with it. The picture looks great!! when looking at it, although some people can see "Rainbows" I personally went with a friend and after 30 minutes of trying to see rainbows, neither of us could. Rainbows, Noisy Fan, Bulb Replacment and going 62" when you aren't watching HD the picture looks grainy, probably because of the size. A nice thing about it, the DLP TV's won't lag in video games, and do have a nice crisp picture.

Please let me know your ideas, opinions ect. I wanna be happy with the best set I can buy and I know a lot of you guys out thre are kind of like TV guru's ...

Darren
 

New member
Username: Sp0rtz

Post Number: 10
Registered: Jan-05
hmmm, How do I delete this thread? I didn't think it posted, the other one I posted I added a bit more.

 

Bronze Member
Username: Dmako

Post Number: 95
Registered: Nov-04
DOn't know how to delete post but the the JVC is razor sharp. The technoligy allows for the pixels to be very very close unlike DLP which has mirrors that move and thus need more space.

Closer pixels = sharp image.
 

Anonymous
 
on paper JVC D-ILA's may be better, however when side by side with LCD's and DLP's they do appear to have a somewhat soft picture, which some suggest is merely "film like"

at BEST BUY, they don't appear to be moving many JVC's, no matter what the reason

when at Sears they didn't even have it setup right. It looked terrible
 

Bronze Member
Username: Americasteam

,

Post Number: 12
Registered: Nov-04
I have the JVC right now and have had the Toshiba. The Toshiba has a great picture when everything is still, but when there is fast movement or the camera pans it leaves artifacts that trail behind the image or the camera pan. I could not take it. Sent it back with no regrets.

I personally love the soft picture of the JVC. If you love to play games, as I do, the JVC is the set. I have had the Toshiba DLP, JVC, Hitatchi directors series LCD, and a Samsung DLP in my home within the last 3 months. All have their strengths and weaknesses. In my opinion the JVC has the most upside than any of the others. It is not perfect. It all comes down to personal preference.

 

Bronze Member
Username: Sp0rtz

Post Number: 11
Registered: Jan-05
Thanks for everyones reply's so far. I have recieved a few e-mail one in particular in regaurds to Texas Instruments LCD Vs. DLP they clearly show that DLP is far superior in the long run which in my case I have eliminated the Sony TV out of my choises for the fact of 2000-2500 hours of use the picture starts to deteriorate.

So basically I'm down to the Toshiba 62HM84 and the JVC D-ILA. Texas Instruments highly reccomends the DLP sets. One other concern I have ... When watching the larger DLP 62" set on regular TV channels, it looks quite "Grainy" because of the size. In the house I am in and where the TV is going to go I will be sitting back 9-10 feet, maybe the 62" is too large? Can anyone else please respond to the JVC D-ILA? Is it LCD as well? for instance will it run into a worse picture after 2000-2500 hours like the Sony?

Please respond as I would like anyones opinions or comments if they have one of these sets.

Darren
 

simplyTron
Unregistered guest
Like Americastream, I also had the Toshiba DLP and moved to the JVC. I had the 46HM84 in my home for about 3 weeks. My main reason for returning it was because there was a green blotch on the tv that was always there when the screen was black. I was originally going to just exchange it for another Tosh, but I did more research and took about two weeks with the Tosh to really decide if I wanted to stick with DLP technology. I really wasn't happy with the way it handled motion, like with fast movements or panning. It just seemed to lose detail until the picture was still again. It was enough of an annoyance to steer me towards trying out the JVC. I have no regrets what so ever.

Also, as far as gaming goes, the JVC rocks. I did seem to notice a small amount of lag on the Tosh. Nothing major, but in certain games it could be annoying. It was mostly noticeable while playing MVP baseball. Pitching became rather difficult because it involves button timing.

Just remember, if you get it in your home and aren't happy with it, you can always return it. It's very hard to judge from a store setup how well a tv will perform when you get it home and set up to your liking.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sp0rtz

Post Number: 16
Registered: Jan-05
Hi simplyTron

I was told that DLP tv's don't lag when playing games? yours was? Also you ever concerned with the approx. 4000 hours on your TV before it starts to become blurry?

LCD Vs. DLP by Texas Instruments
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1151749,00.asp

definetly worth a read

Darren
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sp0rtz

Post Number: 17
Registered: Jan-05
Hi again

What does everyone think about the Toshiba 52HM84 I'm sure the same technology as the 62" maybe just a bit smaller. I haven't done any research on this set ... wondering if it would have audio/sync problems, any sort of lag during xbox games ect. Any help would be greatly apprieciated.

Darren
 

simplyTron
Unregistered guest
It seemed to me that the Tosh did lag. I played 5 seasons worth of MVP baseball, so I was pretty comfortable with the timing it takes to get a pitch to be a strike. I'm not sure if you've played the game, but you have to hit the button once to start the pitch, again at the disired power level, and again to stop the meter within a certain area for the pitch to go where you aimed it. I just found myself constantly being "late" and the pitches to be mostly balls. I had to force myself to react earlier. It seemed to me there was a slight lag that was causing this, even if it was very miniscule. For most games it may not be an issue, but for some games it might be a factor.

As far as the set becoming blurry. I'm pretty sure the JVC won't be affected by this. It is a different technology than LCD, it's LCOS. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's something you have to worry about with this set.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Theburninator

Post Number: 17
Registered: Sep-04
I have the 52HM84 and I haven't noticed any lag as far as video games are concerned. I play games on the PS2, gamecube, and xbox. If you're only going to be sitting 9'-10' back, you won't want anything bigger than 52" I sit about 9' back from mine and that's about as close as I would consider getting. I really like my tv and wasn't very impressed by the D-ILA tv I saw, but it often just comes down to personal preference.
 

Silver Member
Username: Angelog

Post Number: 103
Registered: Nov-04
Roger,

Last Dec I went thru exactly what you are. I finally descided on the JVC D-ILA.

One thing you have to realize is that the sets you are looking at are not setup identically and sometimes some have worse feeds or cables than others. Also, the 1st release of the sets had a problem with the color engine (which as since been fixed) and many places still have the original floor samples out there. If you can look at the back, don't even evaluate a set that doesn't have a mfgr date before August 2004.

I spent HOURS AND HOURS (probably over 20) going thru the menu's and adjusting the images on the different sets at various places. At 1st, the JVC would look soft .. but then I'd notice for instance that the DNC (Dynamic Noise Control) was on MAX on the JVC but turned off on the others. Unfortunately, to evaluate these TV's, you have to become an expert on each set's menu settings and how they effect the picture. Also, unless you have a really good eye and know what the right color, tint, brightness and contrast should look like, each set may be off in one way or another.

I would end up doing a contest with myself. I would get one set looking better than the other, then switch and try to get the 2nd one winning .. back and forth.

I can remember a "the guy" at BB telling me that the Mitz and Sam blew the JVC away. After about 20 mins of getting the picture its best, I challenged him to make setting changes to the other 2 to make them better .. he couldn't and had to agree that he didn't he hadn't given the set a fair shake.

In the end, the D-ILA has better color rendition (especially in flesh tones) and didn't tend to over state reds and greens like other sets .... with just as much sharpness as any DLP (Mitz, Sam and Toshiba). Nothing matches the D-ILA for smoothness of image .. but that's not to say its not sharp .. rather the pixel separation is so subtle that it nearly nonexistant.

The Toshiba was actually a close match, but those damn speakers on the side made a 52" set the size of a 60"+ in a speaker/center config. The set looks HUGE and with a home theater system, you don't even use the speakers.

Also, if you are interested in playing video games, the DLP's all have lag issues which make game play difficult.

There's also the rainbows, the eye fatigue, etc that comes with the DLP.

So, in the end I choose the JVC .. but it's very hard to find a set.

Finally, I've heard nothing but absolute priase for JVC support. They'll really go the extra yard to fix any issues you have.

Hope that helps.

Ang
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sp0rtz

Post Number: 18
Registered: Jan-05
Hi angelo guarino,

Thanks so much for your post. I know like hundreds of others in these forums have went with the JVC D-ILA. I know the blacks are black and there isn't any lag at all with this set. Can you comment on the JVC set being LCOS? I have read so much that LCD screen start deteriorating around 4,000 hours. Can you comment or anyone else about the LCOS?

also check this out that was done by Texas Instruments. LCD Vs. DLP
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1049289,00.asp
 

Silver Member
Username: Mr_lynch

Seattle, WA

Post Number: 425
Registered: Sep-04
LCoS chips do not use organic materials like LCD chips and plasma sets do. As the organic materials decay, they lose their brightness. That is why Plasma and LCD "dim" over time. The JVC will look exactly the same 20 years from now. It will not dim or wear out. It is similar to DLP in that regard. DLP sets have almost 1 million tiny moving mirrors, and a moving color wheel. I do not feel all those moving parts are as reliable as the 3 chip JVC system which has no moving parts.

LCD sets will last 20,000 to 25,000 hours. Not 4,000. Around 4,000 you might need to replace the bulb, not the TV.
 

New member
Username: Thedvdguy

Post Number: 4
Registered: Jan-05
Thanks for the info Angelo, I am serious leaning towards the JVC myself.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sp0rtz

Post Number: 20
Registered: Jan-05
Mr. Lynch

Thanks so much for the Awesome post !! so nice to have dudes like you around these forums. I have read a lot of your comments :-)

Darren
 

New member
Username: Mowjoe

Canada

Post Number: 5
Registered: Jan-05
Does anyone know how to adjust the screen size for the hdmi input (via the service menu) to correct the overscan i have when viewing my pc?
 

Unregistered guest
work for a company me & my boss bought the toshiba 52" & the 62"dlp looked amazing for about a month then my lamp blue ' 2 days later my boss calls me tells me his lamp blue aswell ' toshiba is replacing it 'missed the superbowl on big screen'makesure you get extended warrentys with all these new tech tv's ..
 

Unregistered guest
work for a company me & my boss bought the toshiba 52" & the 62"dlp looked amazing for about a month then my lamp blue ' 2 days later my boss calls me tells me his lamp blue aswell ' toshiba is replacing it 'missed the superbowl on big screen'makesure you get extended warrentys with all these new tech tv's ..
 

Silver Member
Username: Kid_red

Post Number: 141
Registered: Apr-04
I've had my JVC for about a week now and after I've calibrated it I can honestly say to other potential owners "I have never seen a JVC in Sears (3 of them) Best Buy (4 of them) and Breandsmart that looked even close to how well mine does".

Moral- unfortunately, you can not trust BB or Sears to set this tv up properly. You most likely will see the JVC look horrible in the stores as I did, but have to go on faith in current owners and positive reviews it's received. This set is so hard to adjust because it has quit a few settings to toy with and really needs a clean source (good DVD player, cables and clean HD source)
 

brad_52hm84
Unregistered guest
I have a 2 week old Toshiba 52HM84 DLP television, and it is awesome. I haven't noticed any rainbows, nor have I seen any "trails" during fast scenes. You're right about the grainyness of SD broadcasts, but since I have HDTV service from my cable provider, I watch the networks in HD or plain digital at worst. The only channels that I have watched in SD are cartoon channels for my kids and the golf channel. I can deal with the grainyness of these since most of my tv watching is either digital or HD. Go with the Toshiba...it is an awesome set!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Matman

Post Number: 21
Registered: Jan-05
The JVC D-ILA is by far the best TV I've seen. I had 2 different models on a trial basis before I started reading about the JVC. I traded for it, and BOY, AM I GLAD I DID! It has much greater clarity than the other sets, and better color. When people say it looks "soft", are they responding to the fact that the pixels are so close as to give the image a smooth, liquid quality? I wonder if some folks need to see the dots and lines to know that it's in focus.
Tonight I hit the stores again (shopping for surround sound). After living with the JVC D-ILA for several weeks, the other sets on display really looked second rate. This is new technology, and I'm not sure salespeople at stores know how to set it up. If you shop at a store with a good return policy, try this set out at home. I supsect you'll be as happy as I am! The HD programming is amazing, and the DVD quality blows me away.
Yours,
Matt
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sp0rtz

Post Number: 23
Registered: Jan-05
Back,

Well after tons and tons ad tons of research, I have come to the conclusion that the JVC D-ILA is the best tv on the market.
 

tvshopper
Unregistered guest
Sp0rtz,

I agree with you. Just don't tell that to Post Reader ;-)

When are you buying? Which model? What will you be hooking it up to?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sp0rtz

Post Number: 24
Registered: Jan-05
Well I have to wait for the drywallers to come in and then the carpet guys. I might hold off and buy like in May, the newer TV's will be out then and the JVC D-ILA might drop maybe 300-500 bucks. I will be setting it up, I'm currently looking for the DVD Essentials off of ebay, just haven't boughten one as of yet. Also in the JVC D-ILA forum, there's like 1700 posts and I'm sure there are lots of people settings. Which did you buy? or are going to buy?

Darren
 

Post Reader
Unregistered guest
Hi tvshopper,

http://www.jvcdig.com/Reliability%20of%20D-ILA%20Projectors06-03revF.pdf


I took a look at the JVC Reliability link posted in this thread. LCOS D-ILA is a very interesting technology. I must admit, the (CMOS) or semiconductor circuit that excites the liquid crystal may well last a couple of lifetimes. The ACF Connection is rated at 100k hours. However, the very adhesive that holds the D-ILA panel together was not given 9 years of life at room temperature under UV light testing. In fact, the overall reliability rating of 100k+ hours was based on ultra violet lamp testing. What really stands out is the troubling contrast and reflectivity tests performed "Under Standard Operating Conditions: 45C, 200W NSH Lamp". The results are not the problem, but the 3000 hour duration cut-off raises an eyebrow. Why not 10,000 or 50,000 hours or more? A bit disingenuous, don't you think? Great results at 3000, though. A 200 watt lamp is what will be in the set, not an ultra violet lamp.

Let's see...D-ILA panels made of liquid crystals sandwiched between layers of quartz glass, held together with glue, under a hot 200 watt lamp, must need a cooling fan. I'll bet when the fan bearing goes out a failsafe circuit shuts down the lamp. Otherwise, there would be a major meltdown.

The only thing I like about the D-ILA panel is the CMOS circuit. Oh...that's what pivots the tiny mirrors on the (DMD) DLP chip! Imagine that!
 

tvshopper
Unregistered guest
Post Reader,

I am glad that you've chosen the technology that you find the most compelling. And, I wish you luck with it. Let's see whose set lasts the longest. I believe that my chips will outlast your mirrors and color wheel by a long shot.

Oh, and by the way, this is not new technology. JVC has been using this technology for a long, long time in projection units. In fact, they were chosen to produce heads up displays for the military because the technology is so proven and solid.
 

tvshopper
Unregistered guest
Sp0rtz,

I have the 52Z585. It is a fantastic TV. I am still tweaking here and there but anyone that steps into the room and views it is utterly amazed.

Don't mind Post Reader, he believes that anyone that chooses anything but DLP is a fool. DLP was not an option for me as I see the rainbow effect. I also witnessed a lot of the other video artifacts as I was doing my research and shopping. Also, I was not about to buy a Samsung product as I believe that they are about the worst producer of electronics out there.

P.S. That post of Post Reader is old news. He posted that like two weeks ago.
 

Post Reader
Unregistered guest
I was hoping you had a better reliability test to show me.

You are absolutely right about the color wheel, although, the new air bushing model is doing quite well for me. Besides, they are easy to replace if and when needed, unlike entire displays. Now, you are cleary wrong about the DMD chip failing before the D-ILA panel. If they can't stand behind the glue that holds those little guys together any more than 8 years at room temperature, (not even tested using the lamp) then there must have been a breakdown. I have no idea why their contrast test cuts off at 3000 hours. That's telling, don't you think?

The military, well, they have been avid members of the "throw away" society since their inception. After all, it's not their money!
 

Post Reader
Unregistered guest
P.S.

My posts are timeless as they deal with fact, unless otherwise disproven.

tvshopper,

I don't think you or anybody else is a fool for buying a great looking display. I'm just not convinced of it's quality in the long run. After all, the LCD/LCOS/D-ILA uses electrons to excite organic or non-organic matter to produce color. That's not anything like using natural light. I really hope you get more than a decade of quality viewing. I'm just not convinced that you will. For some folks it doesn't matter. They will want something new by then. As for me, I wish I had gotton more than 15 years out of my Mitsubishi 35" picture tube and I'm sick about not getting more than 18 months out of my Sony 36" CRT. I just want technology that will last. My Sharp microwave is 23 years old and never repaired. My Onkyo amp has 22 years of use with no repair. Yes, I have an 18 year old refrigerator. Yes, I drive an old Chevy truck.
 

tvshopper
Unregistered guest
I've done more research regarding the adhesive used by contacting the authors of the paper in question. The figure of 8 years for the adhesive is what they could report when the paper was published. The test continues to run in two instances. The first test has been running for over 100,000 hours at this point with no failure. The second test has been running for over 60,000 with no failure.

They do not know what the useful life of the adhesive is at this point but they say that they have projectors running since 1993 that use the same adhesive and so far, no failure of the adhesive.
 

Unregistered guest
I also am looking for a rear projection TV and have been doing a lot of research. I liked the Panasonic until I found out it had bulb problems. The Sony was Ok but I liked the Panasonic picture better. I think this was more evident in faces that have shading because of daylight. I looked at the JVC and it seemed to have more noise in the picture than the others. I could not adjust the noise out and it could be a simple problem with the hookup they had. My biggest problem was how bad the picture in all of these TV's looked with standard digital cable.
 

KathyK
Unregistered guest
As you guys seems to be the "experts" on these TV's, I have a question... I have owned JVC for years and am now looking at upgrading my TV. I have it narrowed down to the Sony LCD HDTV and the JVC Flat Screen LCD.
Other than price, I can't find any differences. Your comments?
 

RaveD
Unregistered guest
There are clear differences between the Sony LCD and JVC. The LCD has "screen door effect" which means you can clearly see the square pixels, even at normal viewing distances. The LCD also has poorer black levels (though admittedly this is not one of JVC's strong points either).

I am amused by the negative comments on the JVC in this thread. I can't imagine basing my decision on guesses about manufacturing processes and lifespan of organic materials. I can't imagine basing my decision solely on how a TV performs in a store, where is may be hooked up to a poor signal and have non-optimal settings.

I own the JVC 52" and the picture is spectacular. No noise, no visible pixelation, yet the image is sharp. Side-by-side with an HD2+ DLP the DLP might look a bit sharper, and will have better contrast in dark scenes. In my opinion the difference is not that great, and many people actually prefer the look of the JVC, which has a more "liquid" quality.

I had pretty much decided on an HD2+ DLP but every time I went to the store I could not help but be taken in by the JVC's image. In the end, I went with JVC for two main reasons: 1. No worries about rainbows or headaches; 2. Bang for the buck. Right now the JVC 52" (if you can still find them) is the best bargain out there.

Regarding Best Buy not selling them, that is just plain wrong. I was worried about getting an older build, but learned that Best Buy on the east coast had sold all the old TVs and had to restock their warehouse.
 

New member
Username: Deanbrew

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-05
[quote]This set is so hard to adjust because it has quit a few settings to toy with and really needs a clean source (good DVD player, cables and clean HD source)[/quote]

and [quote]The only channels that I have watched in SD are cartoon channels for my kids and the golf channel. I can deal with the grainyness of these since most of my tv watching is either digital or HD.[/quote]

Any updates or elaboration of how the JVC looks with "regular" cable or sat SD programming? I have a feeling that a lot of my viewing will be SD for quite some time, so I'm particularly concerned with how an analog or digital SD program looks.
 

RaveD
Unregistered guest
In my opinion the JVC looks about the same with SD as DLP sets. Some say LCD sets look a bit better, but I don't have first-hand experience.

The technology is not a huge factor in SD quality. The size is. You simply cannot expect to blow up an NTSC image to 50+ inches without artifacts and graininess. SD will never look as good on a big screen as it does on a 27" CRT.

Luckily, in my area, all of the local stations are available in HD. This provides superior quality even on SD signals, because the signal is upconverted to HD resolution at the broadcast source.

Next in quality are the digital channels from my cable box. These look pretty good.

Lowest quality are the analog channels, they are clearly lower resolution and have a 'snowy' quality. Nevertheless I find it perfectly watchable on my 52" JVC, though I admit that I watch them less and less in favor of whatever happens to be on the HD channels ;)
 

tvshopper
Unregistered guest
dean adams,

If all you're looking for is a TV for SD broadcasts, then this is not the technology for you. And I mean any of the TVs that have true HD capability. They are just too good and show the lack of signal quality in any SD broadcast. I find the quality acceptable for SD broadcasts and look forward to the day where my cable system is 100% true digital (even in the 0 - 99 channel range...not too long now) as the digital channels even in SD look pretty darn good. You have to decide for yourself if you find the tradeoff (dazzling HD with so-so SD vs. no HD with good SD) worth it.
 

pappyGTI
Unregistered guest
I am shopping for a TV right now and was torn between the JVC 52" and Toshiba 52". I really liked the JVC picture and was almost set on getting that one until...http://cdn.consumerreports.org/static/0recall2883.html
I went to Sears and saw a big sign on the JVC that said "DO NOT SELL:RECALL". Apparently a circuit in the electronics(that people in here praise as if they gave birth to it) is shorting out and frying the TV. This might not be every model and it might be fixable but...that was enough of a deterrent for me. I'm sure this post will be torn apart for JVC blasphemy but no fact or figure is gonna change my mind on this one.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Kdog044

Post Number: 59
Registered: Feb-05
I have the 62HMX94 and I don't know what the original poster was referring to unless he was referring to DLP's in general?

Rainbows: Supposedly they exist with DLP but I have yet to see one.

Noisy Fan: The fan is whisper quiet (perhaps he was thinking of Samsung or Panasonic)

Bulb Replacement (yes this is a consumable that will need to be replaced around 6000-8000 hours at around $200). If you watch TV 8 hours a day it will take you over two years. The same holds true for LCD's as they use a phospor backlight source. Plasma's will just fade and don't have a user consumable part. Personally, if I can change a bulb every two to three years to get my TV back to new condition I think it's a better choice.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mrtomasulo

Post Number: 32
Registered: Mar-05
pappy-- just buy one manufactured after the ones being recalled. That's what I did. The recall fix itself replaces a simple part and takes 20 minutes, performed in-home, from what I heard.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mrtomasulo

Post Number: 33
Registered: Mar-05
TVshopper-- Just curious, who's your cable provider? I just called my cable provider yesterday and they told me all channels including 0-99 would be digital by summer, which was good and unexpected news to me. I have Charter in the St. Louis area. My digital channels aren't all that far off HD IMO.
 

tvshopper
Unregistered guest
pappy,

So you will never own a Ford or a Chevy or a Dodge or a Honda or a Toyota or a Mercedes or a BMW or a.....

Recalls happen. It's how the manufacturer deals with it that counts. JVC has been very proactive to repair and replace the affected units. If your benchmark is "I won't buy anything that has had a recall", then you won't own much.

Mister Tomasulo,

I have Charter in NE Wisconsin. We don't have definite date on the conversion but I've been told that all analog channels will be completely digitized "very soon." I agree with you, digital channels are very close to HD.
 

New member
Username: Cali_dreaming

Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-05
I just don't understand how some of you put up with these HDTVs. You take a big-screen non-HDTV and stand it next to the same size HDTV, and you'll have a picture on the non-HDTV that's a hundred times better than the HDTV for any signal source that is not a high definition signal source. Too bad no one sells a big-screen non-HDTV anymore - if anyone knows where I can get one to replace my dead one, please let me know.
 

New member
Username: Cali_dreaming

Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-05
By the way, I had bought a 61" JVC D-ILA and also a 52" JVC D-ILA. Returned both of them. It was like watching a VHS tape in EP mode. No, I wasn't watching one of the few HD channels, but a standard channel from dish network (which looked like dvd quality on my 52" older tv).
The salesman guaranteed me that it would give me as good a picture as my old tv if not better. Yeah right.
 

Learn Something
Unregistered guest
Cali,

You've shown your lack of knowledge. Now, go buy your CRT and enjoy your 20 year old technology. BTW, plain Dish network sucks!
 

New member
Username: Cali_dreaming

Post Number: 4
Registered: Mar-05
And one other thing, yes I did look at how satellite picture looked on the TV in the store, and yes it did look like crap. The salesman's explanation was that it was because the signal was being split many times to send to all the tv's in their store and that it would look great in my home. If anything, I thought it looked worse at home.
 

New member
Username: Cali_dreaming

Post Number: 5
Registered: Mar-05
Learn, got a big-screen CRT to sell me? Dish Network looked like dvd quality on my old 52" tv. Very sharp picture, no blurr, no ghosting, very bright, no problems at all. If all I wanted to do was watch a few HD channels (unfortunately the channels I watch the most are not available in HD), then a hdtv would have been fine. But then have you tried looking at a mini-DV tape from your camcorder on a big-screen HDTV? Looks like a DVD on a big-screen non-HDTV but looks like a VHS tape on a HDTV. Same goes for older DVDs, laser discs, etc.
Oh and I'm not alone in this. The delivery guy who delivered the JVC D-ILA said he had a 65" non-bigscreen TV and it had a much better picture than all the hdtv's. I put the Spiderman DVD in to see how it would look on the JVC and it looked grainy. He said I'd have to buy superbit dvd's to take advantage of the HDTVs. Yeah, right. A salesman at Conn's also had a big-screen TV at his house which he said he wouldn't give up because it was not a HDTV and it showed a much better picture than a HDTV.
You might say garbage in, garbage out. Well that garbage looks like a DVD quality picture on a non-HDTV big-screen. I've heard external scalers can help but not that much with satellite broadcasts - I was even willing to plunk down $1500 for a iscan HD+ if I could get a picture like what I was used to getting.
 

New member
Username: Cali_dreaming

Post Number: 6
Registered: Mar-05
Rave,
You said: "The technology is not a huge factor in SD quality. The size is. You simply cannot expect to blow up an NTSC image to 50+ inches without artifacts and graininess. SD will never look as good on a big screen as it does on a 27" CRT."
I'd have to disagree with you there. I've been used to watching perfectly sharp NTSC pictures on my 9 year-old 52" screen - it was like watching a DVD. I had to watch the superbowl on my 20" bedroom tv instead of the new 61" JVC I had bought due to how bad digital satellite picture looked on it (I have analog cable too and it was just as bad); unfortunately I didn't have a HD tuner.
I have yet to find any HDTV in the stores that displays a good sd picture. Same goes for EDTV's. Keep in mind that I'm only looking at 42 inches and higher.
 

HD Fanatic
Unregistered guest
Cali,
It sounds like you really like your broken, old, archaic, analog TV. That's fine, as everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I have a simple solution for you. GET YOUR OLD TV REPAIRED!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Cali_dreaming

Post Number: 13
Registered: Mar-05
HD, I tried to get it repaired. They had it in the shop for over a month and ended up replacing the power supply and a bunch of other things. After the brought it back, it died again. They thought something was wrong with the circuit board and that it wasn't worth fixing anymore. At the time I didn't think that if I went out and bought a new high definition TV that my picture quality would go to hell, so I got rid of the old big-screen TV. So if I could get it back and repaired, I would. Have you ever seen a high-end NON-HDTV bigscreen tv's picture with a digital satellite picture or DVD on it?
 

TV Psychic
Unregistered guest
"Have you ever seen a high-end NON-HDTV bigscreen tv's picture with a digital satellite picture or DVD on it?"

Yes back in 1978, pretty nice back then, not so hot today.

TV Psychic
 

HD Fanatic
Unregistered guest
Cali,
Yes. My dad still has a 60" Mitubishi that he has had for about 10 years. I will agree with you that analog broadcasts look better than the newer sets because it was designed for the analog signal. What I don't like about his and other older projection sets I have seen is the viewing angle sucks. If you get off center, the screen gets too dark. Plus, his is a non-widescreen so you get the bars on widescreen DVD's which makes his 60" equate to a 45". If you are interested in buying his, I'm sure he would sell it to you. He is looking at getting a front projection, and the CRT takes up way too much space.

BTW, of all the new sets I have seen, Sony produces a pretty good analog picture. I don't know if you have looked at it much...
 

Bronze Member
Username: Cali_dreaming

Post Number: 14
Registered: Mar-05
HD Fanatic, the mitsubishi's always had too much glare for me. Now when I returned the JVC, the salesman said I should try the Sony LCD. I thought I'd do some research first and get some opinions. As far as a good analog picture, are you referring to a Sony big-screen CRT, LCD, or Plasma? I don't care if it doesn't show the pores of someone's skin like HD does - I just don't want to see out-of-focus images or blurry images like I have seen with all the HDTVs displaying a 480i signal. It'll be interesting to see how their SXRD's look later this year. I hear Toshiba may be coming out with something later this year as well (SED?).
 

HD Fanatic
Unregistered guest
I was referring to the Sony LCD projection. However, I wouldn't go any larger than 55" with it because the screen-door-effect will be very noticable. They use DRC circuitry to smooth analog channels, and surprisingly it works. I don't know if it will be up to your standards, but you might want to take a look for yourself. I had the 55" and 60" in my home, so I'm speaking on first hand experience.
 

Unregistered guest
I have the JVC HD-52Z575 and the LATEST SONY KDF-60XS955 and the Sony has a better PICTURE (SD and HDMI) also playing games SONY Won by a huge margin. As far as DLP tv goes, well the quality of the picture on the SONY KDF-60XS966 is much better than the DLP.

here what is coming up this summer from SONY so you might want to wait.

At its 2005 dealer show last week, Sony underscored its long-term display strategy when Sony Sr. VP Mike Fidler noted, "We believe LCD offers significant advantages over other display technologies. We are improving contrast, black level and viewing angles."

Sony also said the 46-inch (60'' and 70'' will be available) QUALIA 005, 006 (US5,000, US$15000) LCD TV (LCOS) with Triluminos LED backlighting will ship this spring. This flat-panel TV handles the full HDTV resolution of 1920x1080p and features a 100-watt S-Master digital amplifier
 

tired of crap
Unregistered guest
ddddddd-

I don't believe you. If you have both, how about some pix? You sound like a Sony Fanboy.
 

Learn Something
Unregistered guest
ddddddd,

I believe that Sony's high-end TVs will be using LCOS technology.
 

Unregistered guest
I have been looking for a new TV and was thinking about the Samsung DLP. But I was reading about a lot of problems with them. Thats when I started looking into the JVC, and it seems that everyone is pretty happy with them. When I went down to my local best buy, they had 2 on display. Excellent picture quality side by side with the DLP's. But I turned off the TV, and it wouldn't turn back on. This is on both units. I had to wait over two minutes from the time I turned it off to the time it turned back on. Is this normal?
 

Silver Member
Username: Mr_lynch

Seattle, WA

Post Number: 662
Registered: Sep-04
hg-

Almost all non CRT rear projection sets are like that. I have the JVC and when you turn it off, it goes though about a 90 second cool down period. The fans run and cools off the bulb before completely shutting off. This is to prevent premature bulb failure. When turning the set on it takes about 20 seconds for the bulb to warm up and displayy an image.
The Samsung DLP is the same way.
 

Interested Purchaser
Unregistered guest
I am looking to buy a JVC 61Z575 but the new 61Z886 model is comming out with a HDTV Tuner. Does anyone know if the new model has an improved picture or any other worthwile new features? Any Comments or Advice?


 

Unregistered guest
I want a big TV, what should I buy? okay, I know it isnt that simple, so here are a few more deails. I have never owned anything other than a regular "picture tube" television and am looking for soemthing larger and nicer. I have Satellite (Dishnetwork) with the upgraded HDTV satellite, just need the HDTV receiver I think. I DO NOT care about sound. I have a seperate 6.1 THX certified etc, etc, receiver to push the sound for the room, so I am only interested in picture quality. I not only with have the satellite signal to watch, but DVD's and X-Box will be used as well. I want to stay right around $2000, but + or - $200-$300 is okay. Any and all feedback is welcome, and thanks in advance for the reply.

Kevin

PS Ignoring the fear I have for reprisal I have for the people here who seem to dislike Sony products, that is all I have owned and have been a happy customer. This is the ONLY reason I was considering the KF50WE620. The price at my local Sam's club was $2199.77. I am not justifying that purchase by any means, but sharing it with you as to where I am as a starting point. Thanks again!
 

JVCFan
Unregistered guest
JVC DILA. In my opinion, the best "bang for the buck" going.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mr_lynch

Seattle, WA

Post Number: 734
Registered: Sep-04
Kevin-

I own the JVC but I also like the Sony LCD sets. I'd say if you can not find the 52" JVC in your area in your price range, you should go for the Sony. That's a great price for a great set.
 

Klaus
Unregistered guest
Kevin:
Sony all the way, especially for gaming. I actually own the Samsung HLP-4674 DLP set which has a great picture, but if not for the size constraints placed on me by my wife's armoire choice, I would buy the Sony, the bigger the better!
 

smitty in tampa
Unregistered guest
How do each of these Sony TVs rate? Did the 655 replace the 620?

50" Grand WEGA LCD Rear Projection HDTV KF50WE620
50" Grand WEGA LCD Rear Projection HDTV KDF-50WE655
 

New member
Username: Hd_fanatic

Boise, ID

Post Number: 8
Registered: May-05
The KF50WE620 is an old model, has a DVI input instead of HDMI, and does not have a built-in HD tuner. The KDF-50WE655 is the current model and has the aforementioned items. I have also heard that the 655 has some improved electonics, including a better lamp ballast that is supposed to make the bulbs last longer. Picture quality wise, they both share the same resolution LCD panels, and should produce a similar picture.
 

Unregistered guest
This is my first big screen. It looks like I will be buying the 61z585 (585 is the black one). A couple questions:

1. Is $3000 including tax a good price for this unit?

2. The place I'm look at getting from is an autorized service center, not BB or seras or CC, and does not sell extended warranties. How can I get an extended warranty for this set? My main concern is the lamp.

3. I've heard some talk that it is best to have these units on Battery Back-up. Is this needed?

Looking forward to feedback.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Pilot53

Post Number: 15
Registered: May-05
Rhino,

For that price you can get the 61Z786, which is the newest 720P model. I do not know where you are, but I got mine from a place called Pacific Sales for $ 3000 plus tax, and it included a 5 year replacement type warrantee, (no lamp). Why not get the newest one? I am in Los Angeles, CA

Pilot53
 

Bronze Member
Username: Hd_fanatic

Boise, ID

Post Number: 11
Registered: May-05
I agree with Pilot. I would get try to score a good deal on a 61z786 model. As for buying an extended warranty , there are many companies out there that will do that, but just make sure you know what is and isn't covered, and that you get it in writing. I'm not sure but JVC might sell you an extended warranty. I know that Sony does on their TV's.

To answer your question on the battery back-up, yes it's a good idea to have one. The main reason is so that you can properly turn off the TV during an outage so the cooling fan can continue to run the 2 minute or so cycle to properly cool the bulb after the set is turned off. Also, if you get one that has AVR (automatic voltage regulation), it will supply your TV with clean, steady voltage. I bought a Power Sentry with 1100 VA from Costco for 100 bucks. Its cheap insurance for an expensive big-screen.
 

Unregistered guest
I'm looking at buying my first flatscreen, the JVC HD-52Z585 D-ILA. None of my local retailers in central California near me carry this model, so I have to go mail order or drive down to Gotham City. I went to mysimon.com to search for the best deal ($1805.00 incl. shipping, no tax, from HDTVTime.com) and I've never heard of any of the retailers offering this set and none of them have any customer reviews. Has anyone dealt with any of these sellers?

HDTVTime.com
HypeAudio.com
Buydig.com
Beach Camera
MP Superstore
Electrodiscounts
Nice
Mr. Accessory
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