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NAD T743 vs NAD T753 sound quality

 

New member
Username: Bien

Post Number: 6
Registered: Apr-04
Hey all,

I wanted to know if any can provide some info and feedback on the sound quality differences if any between the NAD T743 and the T753.
I realized that the T753 has more power along with some more features, but I wanted to know if the T753 sounded better or richer when compared to the T743 when listening at the same volume levels.
I recently purchased the T743, but may want to trade up to the T753.
Any comments or feedback would be appreciated.

Bien
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 935
Registered: Dec-03
I think they will sound the same, unless you push the T743 to its limits by playing very loud into difficult speakers, but that is not so easy to do with NAD.

My personal tip for an upgrade is to get a DVD-Audio player, if you do not already have one. Your T753 has 5.1 analogue inputs for precisely that reason. DVD-Audio really is progress; the improved sound quality over DVD-Video formats is immediately obvious, and DVD-Audio leaves CD at the starting line. Any serious player should be able to read all those discs and provide all those formats, today.
 

New member
Username: Bien

Post Number: 7
Registered: Apr-04
Thanks John,

I definitely had plans to upgrade my DVD player. I was interested in opinions between the Yamaha S1500 vs the NAD T533 or the T513. I realize that the T513 does not have DVD audio, but was interested in knowing the quality of the sound and picture between the Yahmaha and the NAD products for the DVD players.

Regarding the receivers, although I have a small room, I wanted to know if the NAD T753 would sound warmer or richer compared to my T743, and if so I was thinking about upgrading to the T753.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 941
Registered: Dec-03
bien,

You are welcome. If you have a small room, you will probably never approach max power output, and I think it is safe to say the T753 and T543 will sound exactly the same. I do not know about that Yamaha model, and cannot comment.

Good luck!
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 119
Registered: Feb-04
Somebody here (or somewhere) said that the T763 sounded warmer and fuller than the T743, but I have no memory of any details. The T763 has some improvements over the T753 (like the toroidial transformer), so I dont know if there is difference between the 743 and 753.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Gatt767

Malta

Post Number: 57
Registered: Feb-04
The T753 and T743 are both based on the Same power supply tech.. The T753 built in power amps and power supply are able to give more juice. As regards to decoding, the T753, decodes the extended formats, therefore you are much more future proofed. Both models are good and this depends on whats are your needs. Is the room able to benefit from a 6.1/7.1 that the T753 can offer? Do You need the extra Power? Will you benefit from DDEX/DTSES Matrixed/Disctrete?

 

New member
Username: Bien

Post Number: 8
Registered: Apr-04
Rob,

Although I'm currently only set up for 5.1, I know I would like to make additions to the surround set up in the future. For now, I am more concerned with the richness of sound, and the power.
Although the my living room is only about 12x18, I am also trying to determine if I need the slight increase in power of the T753 or is the T743 sufficient.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 959
Registered: Dec-03
bien,

Purely from the point of view of sound quality, I personally would be strongly inclined to stay with 5.1. The cost of each extra receiver channel is considerable. Processing for matrixed surround is less of a cost in itself. But having a 6.1 or 7.1 matrixed surround to provide for virtual channels and justify extra amplifier outputs, not to mention speakers, is money spent on illusory benefits: and better spent on the source, speakers, etc, imho. There are very few DVD Video discs, and no DVD-A discs, with more than 5.1, and that seems unlikely to change. "Audiophile" DVD-As often do not even use all channels in 5.1. For music, there is nowhere really to go beyond 4.0, or 4.1 if you have small speakers.
 

New member
Username: Bien

Post Number: 9
Registered: Apr-04
Thanks everyone,

I went by the NAD dealer a couple of days ago, and he allowed me to exchange the T743 for the T753. I guess I wanted just a little more power for the room. I just hooked up the T753 and so far so good.
BTW for those who are interested, the cooling fan noise is really not noticable.
I think I made the right decision.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1042
Registered: Dec-03
bien,

Well done. Good luck. I agree; it sounds like the right decision.
 

New member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 1
Registered: May-04
Could you experts tell me if T753 also use "Toroidal Power Transformer" as T763 and T773 do? Is really worth to spend 400$ more to buy T763 instead of T753 just for RS-232port and stronger muscles? Any suggestions are appreciated.
 

Silver Member
Username: Dmeister

Post Number: 111
Registered: Dec-03
I believe the 753 uses a laminated transformer, not a toroidal transformer.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1256
Registered: Dec-03
Anna,

Thread: NAD 753 / 763
 

Bronze Member
Username: Newfie

Post Number: 30
Registered: Mar-04
The T753 is a good base but, the T763 is an impressive powerful reciever. I certainly prefer the added headroom it has brought to my system.I have owned the T753 previously. I've noticed a more detailed sound in all types of media. I definately have no regrets about upgrading.
 

New member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 2
Registered: May-04
Many thanks to Darryl, John and Viper for the nice suggestions. Now I prefer T763! One more question is that I found all of the T763 is made in China. You know that Denon fans prefer 3805 than 3803 not because the 3805 has more joice but the 3805 is made in Japan while 3803 is done in China (the quality is absalutely different they said;-). What do you note that? Any comments? Thanks in advance.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 209
Registered: Feb-04
Anna, check this thread. It has info on 3803 and 3805 similarities:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/38081.html
 

New member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 3
Registered: May-04
Thank you all!
Now it is the time for me to consider what kinds (brands) of CD/DVD player and speakers match T763? I have read some discussions in this forum. It seems that T763/denon DVD 2200 combination is better than T763/T533. How about Pioneer DV-565A? Of course, economy is an important issue for me in this case, otherwise denon DVD 2900 will undoubtedly adopeted. Any comments and suggestions will be really appreciated.
Regards,
Anna
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 234
Registered: Feb-04
It would be wise to get a dual format DVD-A/SACD player as the Pioneer or the Denon. The NAD supports only DVD-A so it's a bit limited. Also are you planning to plug it to a plasma/lcd/projector or just an ordinary crt-tv? If it's the first case I suggest you get a player with a DVI or HDMI output, or at least VGA/component. DVI and HDMI are quite rare but the amout of players are growing, good examples are the Samsung DVD-HD935 (DVI) and Panasonic DVD-S97 (HDMI & DVD-A).

For speakers you should check brands like Dynaudio, B&W, Tannoy, Paradigm, PSB etc.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Newfie

Post Number: 32
Registered: Mar-04
Highly recommend the NAD, B&W combo.
 

New member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 4
Registered: May-04
Thank you all for the nice suggestion! But Is there anyone who has compared NAD T533 with Pioneer DV-565 since they both cost almost the same price.
Concering the B&W speakers, do you experts think the DM serial is good enough for the NAD T763 or should go for CM serial or even more expensive ones? Of course, the more expensive, the better quility the spealers are. But I want to get the highest(best)ratio of quility/money;-). Thank you very much indeed!
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 264
Registered: Feb-04
The Pioneer DV-565 is a good choice, great picture quality, good sound, DVD-A, SACD, DTS and DD decoders and NTSC progressive out. It has won a couple reviews in finnish magazines (beating Sony NS930, JVC NA77, Denon 1400) and they especially praised the picture quality, accurate sound and ease of use. The NAD is more of question mark, it doesn't do SACD, it hasn't got a DTS decoder (for pleasant DTS-CD listening) and the picture quality of cheaper NAD players like the T512 isn't anything special when compared to Pioneer or Panasonic models. I haven't seen the T533, but I'll still recommend the Pioneer over it.

As for B&W speakers I can suggest a couple combinations for different budjets and purposes of use. First of all I think the CM series is a in-between model-line wich doesn't offer anything special over the 600-series but a higher price. The 700-series is absolutely fabulous and offers very nice high quality sound, but it comes with a price.

From the 600-series I'd get the 603s, 604s or LCR600 as fronts, the LCR600 as center and the DS6 as surrounds for movie-use or the 600/601 for multichannel music use. A clear step up from that would be a 700-series system with 704 or 705 as fronts, the well designed HTM7 as center and DS7 as surrounds. For a uniform soundstage at the front the 705+HTM7 is a clear winner over the less matching 600-series with it's side laying LCR600 center. As for a middle course system you could mix the 700 and 600 series because the sonical matching is not so crucial between the fronts and rears. A pair of 705, HTM7 and pair of 600/601 as rears would do a good job.

As the B&Ws are nice speakers, there are of course other good options. The Dali Suite series (1.7, 2.8 and matching centers and surrounds) should be around the same quality as the B&W 600-series and a nice match with NAD. Tannoy is an easy match with anything and the Fusion and Sensys series have been valued high on most reviews. Dynaudio makes great speakers and I would rank the Audience series higher than the B&W 600s. Their problem is the somewhat weaker center channel 42C wich doesn't match perfectly with the 42, 52 or especially the 52SE.

Many choices there are, take the ones you like the most.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1384
Registered: Dec-03
Just to say the NAD T533 is "more of a question mark" because it has only recently been released. It has not been reviewed professionally, yet, as far as I know.
 

New member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 8
Registered: May-04
Many thanks to both of you, especially Landroval for providing such a valuable information.
Landroval: you mentioned that DV-565 beats Denon 1400. How about Denon 2200? Is denon 2200 much better than DV-565? Thanks!
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 276
Registered: Feb-04
I have no real experience on the Denons so I cant really tell. Also the 2200 is significantly more expensive than the 565, I could get a Pioneer DV668AV or almost the DV868AVi (both with HDMI and the 868 also with i-link. 868 = 59AVi in US) for the same price and that would again be a very easy choice. The biggest complain the reviewers had about the 1400 was the lifeless soundquality, picture was ok.

I think the most important thing about a sound system is the speakers. They have the biggest impact on the entirety and they also have longest lifespan of the system. The source like a DVD-player will be outdated much quicker and also it's affection on the system is much smaller than that of the amps/receiver or the speakers. So all in all put your money on the speakers instead of the source. There is one important thing though and that is the type of you tv. You should get the player regarding what kind of output you need. If your tv can take a DVI or HDMI signal then that is definitely the only right way to go.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Markusp

Toronto, ON Canada

Post Number: 67
Registered: Apr-04
landroval - I just want to clarify for everyone that the Pioneer Dv-565 is different in Europe than the model here in America / Canada. Here, the 565 is virtually identical to the cheaper Pioneer 563a universal player (it is actually its predecessor). The european DV-565 is the equivalent of the pioneer elite models here and is indeed a very nice player.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 278
Registered: Feb-04
Thanks Markus, I was suspecting something like that because I couldn't find the 565 at Pioneer-USA homepage. It's hard to figure out wich is wich because the model ranges are not totally equal.

The Euro-565 does actually look cheap and not Elite-like and it's also beeing replaced by the DivX-capable 575 but I still couldn't find it's US equivalent. Oh well, it's a nice player anyway.
 

New member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 9
Registered: May-04
Well, I heard some rumors that the sound quarlity of the Pioneer 565 is not good enough for an audiophile. This is why I am still hesitate to buy that player and need to get your experts' suggestion;-)
Landroval- You have already given me very good recommandation about the front, center and rear speakers. Is that the front and center speakers with so called voice-matched are very important? How about subwoofer? Do I need to care the brand for that guy? Thank you very much indeed!
Anna
 

New member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 10
Registered: May-04
By the way, you can find and D/L SACD in the net. But I am not sure if such files could be burn on disk in PC like you do on Dvix/Mp3 files and have the disk played on SACD player. Do you have any experience?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1426
Registered: Dec-03
Anna,

No, you can't "rip" SACD files, and my personal view is that that is the whole point of the format. See Ripping DVD-A/DTS/SACD to Computer.

Yes, I think "voice matched" as I understand it, is good for all main speakers. Just as a throw-away, about speakers, let me put in a serious recommendation for KEF, too, my personal, long-term favourite. Though there is nothing at all wrong with the ones you are already considering. The new KEF Q-series looks really good, and has excellent reviews in the serious audio press. "My" thread on that: KEF. A short tale of value, service, customer satisfaction.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 280
Registered: Feb-04
The Pioneer 565 is not high-end, but I think it will be adequate for most systems. You're right that by spending a little more you could get better audio quality, but the difference will really be marginal when compared to the effect of different amp or speakers. The 565 has somewhat cheap feeling because it's so slim and made of plastic so you might want to get some other player for only esthetical reasons. Also you didn't answer whether you're using a crt or lcd/plasma/projector and if you'll be able to use HDMI or DVI.

A perfect system would have three identical speakers as left, right and center. Often this is not possible because of the screen wich takes a lot of space. The center must be designed differently wich results in different sonical behavior, but with the right design (same drivers, same x-over etc) it can be avoided quite well. The B&W HTM7 is a good example of this. Also you could try to find a shielded (if using crt) bookshelf speaker wich you could use as L, C and R speakers. I cant find too many nice options for that kind of setup because most manufacturers still dont shield their speakers. One excellent choice would be the Finnish made Amphion Argon2 ( http://www.amphion.fi/products/argon2/argon2frame5.htm ), but I think you wont easily find that anywhere near your place.

As for the sub sonical matching is not important, you can get the one you like the most. I usually recommend Velodyne, SVS, HSU (of wich I have no personal experience) and B&W subs, but of course there are other good ones as well. REL is great for music only setups, but lacks the power required for HT, they look nice though.

You cant DL SACD or DVD-A from the net. DTS and DD encoded files are available and can be burned and used just like MP3s.

John A, KEF is nice, especially the ones using a coaxial driver like the Q series. They have a very uniform soundstage wich of cource is one benefit of a coaxial driver (I'm a fan). Their weakness is the somewhat low quality casing/box (how do we call it in eng?) wich results into some unwanted resonance. Also their highs are a bit indefinite. I'd say they can compete with the B&W 600 series, but have no chance against the 700. A better internationally available option with coaxial drivers is the Tannoy Sensys DC series (DC1, DC2, DCC).
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1435
Registered: Dec-03
landroval,

I think Anna is fortunate to receive such good advice. I see now "DL" means download, I had not understood that. You can certainly download anything digital, the question is where will you download it from. If you copy or write your own files you can do that, but I think SACD format is essentially a very strong form of data encryption: you will be copying files that you cannot read. I think it is only a matter of time before we shall be able to purchase on-line CD tracks and perhaps other forms of Linear PCM at higher resolution. There is no technical obstacle. The problem is the industry's fear of copying and distribution that they cannot control.

My newest KEF (1 year old) is one of the KHT "eggs" that I use for a centre speaker. The "Build quility" of that is excellent. The other KEFs I have are 12, 14, 22 and 24 years old. All excellent, for sound and quality of construction, by standards then and now. The word you want is "cabinet", I think.

There are plenty of good speaker makes. Tannoy is very special, and, I thought, very expensive. From Anna's surname she may not be so far from an Amphion dealer, perhaps. I did not know they were Finnish, that is good to hear.

Best wishes.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 289
Registered: Feb-04
Thanks, cabinet is the term I was looking for. I was speaking of current KEF Q line-up and I think they would require a stronger cabinet. Also I just learned from an other forum that they have low quality internal wiring and not enough damping. That's a bit sad because they could be great, now they're just mediocre with good ideas, but bad realization.

Tannoy isn't that expensive, at least not here in Europe. The Fusion series is cheaper than B&W 600 and the Sensys DC is between 600 and 700.

You're right about the downloading. MP3s are available in many places already, iTunes is the most popular I think, maybe well see CD-quality or even SACD/DVD-A later on.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1441
Registered: Dec-03
There is a really strong review of the KEF Q4 in June HiFi News. The internal wiring and crossovers on all my KEF speakers is an example to all other makers, I have taken them apart and had a look. I cannot comment in the Q series.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 11
Registered: May-04
Thank you Landroval and John A for such a wondeful recommandation. I am indeed very lucky to meet you and get these priceless advice.

The B&W700 series looks really rebust.I love them! But I just get confused by some technique data provided by the manufactures. e.g the speaker called AudioPro Focus SA-4 which is made in Sweden. The frequency range of this speaker is 37-50000Hz(37-32000,-3db)and the sensitivity is 88db. It looks great, isn't it? But the price of this stuff is much much cheaper than B&W 705. I don't know why. Shouldn't I care these technical data too much? then based on what to chose the speakers?

There is also a lot of discussion about the selection of Denon 3805 and NAD T763. From this forum, I seems to get conclusion that NAD T763 has much better amplifier but worse preamplifier compared with Denon 3805. Am I right?

Thank you all for the trouble you have taken and may take for me in near future;-)

Best regards/Anna
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 291
Registered: Feb-04
The Audio Pro speakers are cheap but I wouldn't really call them hi-fi. They output sound, but it's not great, you'll lose details, control, dynamics, you might have an aggressive and metallic treble, inaccurate and insufficent bass, wobbly cabinets with resonance, low quality binding posts, ugly surface and so on. You also shouldn't stare too much the frequency ranges or sensitivity, they dont matter so much and can be very inaccurate.

I still think that the best option would be the B&W700 system or maybe the Tannoy Sensys DC system. If you want something cheaper then try the Tannoy Fusion or maybe the KEF Q-series. But of course, you must listen them yourself and see wich you like the most. It's the only right way to make the decision.

Yes, the 3805 is very versatile and it has many nice features. I wouldn't say the T763 pre-amp part is worse than the Denons, it has less features, but about it's quality I cant say anything for sure. Both are great so take the one that feels right for you and your ears.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 294
Registered: Feb-04
Here's some nice reviews about the Denon 2200 and Pioneer 565. Both seem to be great players:
Denon 2200: http://www.whatvideotv.com/testbench/frame.html?http://www.whatvideotv.com/cgi-b in/displayreview.php?reviewid=4070
Pioneer 565: http://www.whatvideotv.com/testbench/frame.html?http://www.whatvideotv.com/cgi-b in/displayreview.php?reviewid=4071
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 295
Registered: Feb-04
And a couple more:
The 565: http://www.homecinemachoice.com/frame.html?http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-b in/displayreview.php?reviewid=3624
Sony 930: http://www.whatvideotv.com/testbench/frame.html?http://www.whatvideotv.com/cgi-b in/displayreview.php?reviewid=3023
Panasonic S75: http://www.whatvideotv.com/testbench/frame.html?http://www.whatvideotv.com/cgi-b in/displayreview.php?reviewid=2954

I have an S75 and couldn't be much happier. I really dont miss SACD, but it would still be nice to have. Also a DVI connection to my LCD would be nice and DivX playback wouldn't hurt either, but oh well, you cant have everything. Picture quality is excellent and it's easy and logical to use.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 12
Registered: May-04
Dear Landroval:
Thank you very much for the great advise. Now I am going to buy combo of NAD T763, B&W705 and Pioneer 565A. For the center, rear speakers and subwoofer, I will go for them later since I cannot afford them at the same time;-) Thanks again!
Best regards/Anna
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 297
Registered: Feb-04
It would be nice if you would report your feelings about your set when you get them. Hope it'll please you.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 13
Registered: May-04
Dear Landroval:

One more question;-) Concerning the bass performance, should I buy 705+subwoofer combo or 704 instead? Further, is it necessary to buy a ASW700 but not ASW600 due to the rest of the speaker setting coming from 700 series? Thanks again for the great help!
Regards/Anna
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 305
Registered: Feb-04
Yeah, I was thinking that also. The 704 is a fine choice for music, but for movies a sub brings more punch to the sound. Also the adjustability of a sub is nice if your room isn't acoustically perfect. With the 705 you'll have to get stands so the price difference is not so big. The B&W subs are OK for movies, but with music they dont do so well. Also the size of your room and materials (wood/stone) and other acoustical variables should be noticed.

If it's not exceedingly important that you get the possible sub from also B&W I would suggest you check other options. For movies an SVS would be perfect with it's massive air moving capability. A more sophisticated option would be a REL, like Stampede or Strata III/5 wich are maybe the best there is for music. In a small room they'll provide satisfactory oomph for movies also. For something in between check the Velodyne SPL-II series or the very nice MJ Acoustics Reference 1 wich will do great with music and movies.

You'll find many reviews of all those from here:
https://www.ecoustics.com/editorial/reviews/subwoofer

If you have a small room you should stay with the 705 and get a REL or MJA sub. If a bigger room then both the 704 or the 705 will be fine, but a sub wouldn't hurt with either of them. If you prefer movies over music then get a Velo or SVS.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 14
Registered: May-04
Hi, Landroval:
Thank you very much for the great advise!
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 349
Registered: Feb-04
So what did you end up with?

Here's a nice review of the B&W 700-series:
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=4255
 

Unregistered guest
Hi,
This conversation has helped me very much also, I'm planning byuing my first real equipment (I'm really green here) and was thinking about NAD receiver and Pioneer 565A player. Then I found this thread and now I know so much more. So I guess I must thank you all.

I'm not yet sure what speakers to choose, because I'm not sure I'm ready to invest as much as B&W700 requires (but I too like the looks of them!!). I wouldn't like to buy something more or less either. I'm also insecure what receiver is enough when it comes to power. The money issue is again here against me. Is it possible to add power to NAD receivers afterwards?

I'm also looking forward to Anna's comments!

Kaisuliina
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 376
Registered: Feb-04
Hi Kaisuliina, where are you from?

Even the smallest NAD T743 is quite powerfull and will be sufficent for a small/average sized rooms. If you live in a castle then look for something with more power. Later it's possible to add power amps to every channel and use the receiver as a pre-amp. This requires that the receiver has pre-outs and all NADs do have those. The T753 is more feature rich and has more power so look at it also.

If you feel you want the B&W700 but cant afford them you could buy a pair of 705 first and then save some more money. Of cource there are also other very good cheaper options available. Some good sets would be 5x Tannoy Fusion 2, 4x Dynaudio Audience 42 + Audience 42c, 4x B&W DM601 + LCR600, 2x Dali Suite 1.7 + 2x Suite R0.7 + Suite C0.7, 4x KEFQ1 + Q9c, to name a few. If you have an Amphion dealer near you I'd suggest a set of 5x Helium2.

The 565A is a nice player and at least in Europe we have already the new 575 version with progressive PAL-output and DivX playback. It's hard to get more bang for the buck.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 377
Registered: Feb-04
Here's review of the REL Strata 5 Sub:
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=4259
At least somebody agrees with me what is good stuff... :-)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 15
Registered: May-04
Dear Landroval and all friends:

I have went to the local dealer and lisen to different loadspeakers Landroval suggested. Indeed, the B&W700 is a obvious winner. I just feel that the 705 is somehow lack of bass comparied with the 704. I will go for the 704 though the price is kind of painful to me;-) It is anyway worth to invest them, isn't it,Landroval?

Concerning the CD/DVD source, I get stuck there since the new model DV-575 is just out instead of the DV-565. From the Pioneer homepage, I found the major advantage of the DV-575 is that:1) DV-575 have Divx playback, 2) Video signal D/A converter in 575 is 108 MHz/12-bit comparied with 27 MHz/10-bit in DV-565, and 3)have the progressive PAL-output as Landroval mentioned. However, Considering the digital audio characteristics, the signal-to-noice ratio is 115 dB in 575 vs. 118dB in 565 and the dynamic range is only 101 dB in 575 in comparison with 108dB in 565. Finally, the weight of the DV-575 is 2.1kg but 2.5kg for DV-565;-)

My question is if the audio performance is much worse in new DV-575 than old DV-565 based on these data. Any comments and suggestion will be great appreciated.

Anna
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 380
Registered: Feb-04
Hi, nice to hear from you. It's always bad to go and listen more expensive speakers than you can afford. They make cheaper models look weak and then you almost have to buy the more expensive ones to be happy. Now just dont go and try the 703s :-) If you have the space for floorstanders I think you should take the 704's. Also good stands for the 705s are not free so that will balance the price difference.

I cant comment on the sound quality difference between 565 and 575, probably you wont hear it in one way or the other. If you live in PAL region and might get a TV/projector with component input, I suggest you take the 575.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Goldenarrow

Post Number: 71
Registered: Jun-04
Anna,

Here is a small story. I just saw this thread and was interested because about a month ago, I upgraded my Sony DE885 receiver (only 2 years old) to a NAD T752 (the predecessor to the T753). The Sony was a 5 channel with 100 watts per channel suitable for home theater but I was unhappy with the sound. I only recently realized that it aggrevated a pre-existing tinnitus (ringing) problem in my right ear! As soon as I turned on the NAD, within the first five minutes of listening, I noticed that about 75% of my tinnitus had disappeared! Quite amazing. So, I think the NAD sounds wonderful and you should be happy with it, especially since they seem more popular in Europe than here in the States. The NAD also has less "bells and whistles" but seems more practical in its choice of features, in my opinion.

I also got rid of the Sony DVD player (only one year old) and I ended up with a Pioneer DV-563A (the USA version of the DV-565). I like it but it has its quirks. The advantages of the 565 over the 575 (here in the US, its called the 578A) - like the power supply, the transport (that's the mechanism on which you place the disc and its attendant workings), and like you discovered, the signal-to-noise ratio. This is why the 565 is heavier than the 575, it has better parts inside.

The main problem with the 565 is that the "bass management" for both SACD and DVD-A music playback is less good than the settings in the 575. You will do best with the 565 if you get really good front Left and Right speakers that can reach down into the lower bass range, like around 35 Hz or lower. It sounds like you are going to get the B&W 704's and it sounds like you like the better bass response, so I would say that your instincts are correct. In others words, don't be totally dependent upon a subwoofer for bass response with small front speakers - a good general rule, if you can afford it. This way, you can shut off the subwoofer if you want when playing certain SACD or DVD-A discs that don't need to "shake the house".

The major disadvantage of both the 565 and the 575 is that SACD playback is compromised a little. You may not notice it unless you directly compared it to a Denon 2200 or a Pioneer Elite model, and it gets really, really technical, so much so that I do not understand it. The catch is that this quirk can be avoided in the 565 by just setting all speakers in the 565's Initial Settings menu to "Large" and the SACD playback will be resolved to its fullest capacity (dependent upon the recording, of course). If you want to get your head into the technical details, visit the thread I started here:

https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-video/56777.html

It can be too much info and might be too confusing to read. Bottom line, I would lean towards the 565 and adjust my playback settings. It is a bargain SACD and DVD-A player compared to any other I have found. Others who are more convenience-oriented would go for the slightly less quality of the SACD playback and cheaper parts in the 575 because the 575 has better "bass management" (which fixes the first problem listed above).

By the way, these two problems do not affect the playback of DVD movies or DVD music videos. Only SACD and DVD-A for the first problem, and SACD for the second problem.

Best Wishes (and enjoy the music!),
goldenarrow
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 16
Registered: May-04
Dear landroval and Goldenarrow:

Many thanks to both of you for the professional comments and suggestion. Indeed, I finally decided to buy the M&W 704 because I want to set either bass-rich 2- or 5-channels without a subwoofer which makes sounds so unnature and sometimes too strong to be enjoyable;-) Afterall in most of time I use thess for musci but not movies. I hope that the 704 loudspeakers can totally undertake that and not make me disappointed-;

Since the 704 is such a good speaker I just wonder if T763 is a kind of Hi-Fi amplifier to match this loudspeaker. Or, should I buy a NAD 2-chanel amplifier like c272 plus T753 or T763 as preamplifier? Then the question is the output from the 5/6-channels will not be even when play DVD-A or SVCD.

My naive question is why the output in 5- or 6- channels should be even. Paractically, I feel that the audio performance from rear L and R always be very weak comparied with front R and L. Will this unbalanced setting hurt the performance of the SACD or DVD-A.

Thank you very much for always being great help!

Hace a nice summer,

Aanna
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 381
Registered: Feb-04
I think you should first get a 753 or 763 and try it that way. They have a nice feel of real power and good sound quality when compared to best selling Yamahas or Sonys. If you want you can bring a C272 for audition and try whether it brings something more to your system. With NAD + NAD system you will keep the tone the same across all the speakers and the volume levels can easily be adjusted to your likings even when using a separate power amp. Also you could try to bi-amp your fronts with a power amp and the amps at the receiver if it will bring more control and punch to the sound.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 17
Registered: May-04
If my understanding is right, the "bass management" is a kind of filter that sends the low friquency only to the sub but not to the rest speakers. Is this design only in the DVD player but not in the receiver? As I know that sub itself carries amp by which the output can be adjuested, why do we then need "bass management"?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Goldenarrow

Post Number: 72
Registered: Jun-04
Anna,

Audio sound is measured in Hertz (Hz) or cycles per second. The lower bass found in sub woofers for movies and music is usually around 80 Hz and lower. Most DVD players as well as multichannel (home theater) receivers have bass management and, yes, it is a kind of filter. The technical term is "electronic crossover" and players and receivers each have a setting that might be called "crossover frequency" somewhere in the setup menus. Generally speaking, DVD movies and music videos are sent out from the DVD player to the receiver and the receiver's bass management is handling the division between low bass for the subwoofer and higher frequencies sent to the rest of the system.

The goofy thing is, because of industry paranoia about copyright protection, SACD and DVD-A music discs can only go out through a different set of ports on the SACD/DVD-A player, so that means that the player has to use its settings to handle that crossover frequency.

The terms used to set the settings for each speaker are:

Large = full range, allow even low bass to that speaker

Small = do not allow low bass to that speaker

Off = that speaker does not exist on my system so don't send any output there

The sub is just "on" or "off"

Most subs do have their own amp and crossover settings. I think this is mostly for flexibility. If one wants to get fancy and set the sub at a lower frequency and the front speakers handle the frequencies just above that, then the crossover in the receiver or player can be set higher than normal. Mostly, beginners just leave everything set to the same thing and forget about it!

The quirk I mentioned about the Pioneer 563/565 is because it has fairly a high crossover setting for SACD (120 Hz) and DVD-A (200 Hz). Below 200 Hz, we supposedly cannot hear where a sound is coming from, unless one is sitting right next to the sub. Some audiophiles think those settings are too high and will ruin the effect of having low bass coming from some point source. With low bass handled by two front speakers as well (set to Large), you probably won't notice. My sub is 6 feet behind me and I don't notice it. But that is what the 575 player is supposed to fix, it has a lower crossover setting for SACD and DVD-A, but I don't think Pioneer discloses what it is in Hz.

The NAD receivers you are considering have very nice settings for a crossover, between 40 - 200 Hz. This would be the audio crossover for movie and music video playback.

goldenarrow
 

Bronze Member
Username: Goldenarrow

Post Number: 73
Registered: Jun-04
I forgot to mention, the above assumes a multichannel setup. There is no "bass management" with old fashioned stereo-only receivers/amps.

Subwoofers (and bass management) were mainly conceived for movies where the nuclear bomb explodes in your living room in as realistic way as possible (without the fallout). :-)

The nice thing about multichannel, the SACD and DVD-A discs do sound better than the same CD. This is because of the resolving power of the computer chips in the machines and the higher density of information on the SACD and DVD-A discs. I personally do not want to listen to as many of my old CD's anymore because they sound more "closed-in" or constricted compared to the multichannel formats. But there are not as many interesting multichannel discs yet, so I am willing to build up a collection slowly.

I like landroval's idea - audition a stereo NAD and a multichannel NAD in the same room using the same speakers to hear the differences.

 

Kaisuliina
Unregistered guest
Hi,
Thanks for your adivice landroval, it's nice to get some confidence in these things as I don't have much yet.

I'm from Finland so I have a dealer just 2km away selling Amphions. I'll go to try them out. I'm planning to buy just two speakers first thinking about music only. Would argon2 be much better than helium2 in this case?

And now I'm also sure about the receiver, I'll stay with the smallest power. Mentioning the castle got me convinced finally :-). I really don't have that much space.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 18
Registered: May-04
Dear Goldenarrow:
Thank you very much for the kind explanation. So, I can just set "large" in 565 if I don't want the "bass management" in the player to handle/process the signals. Such a full range signal can be then filted by the similar design in receiver like Nad T753/T763. The "small" setting in the 565 is default setting, which is crossover 120 Hz for SVCD and 200 Hz for DVD-A. Am I right? Thanks again!
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 386
Registered: Feb-04
Kaisuliina, I'm from Finland also so your name had a familiar tone. The Amphions are great speakers, but not everybody like their clear and detailed sound. It comes always down to personal preference so you must try them out and compare to others to find out what you like the most. Also good thing about Amphions is that they are quite cheap here when compared to what they cost in US.

The Argon2 is one of the nicest speakers available in it's class. It's way better than the Helium2, especially it has more dynamics and bass, for music it's the right choice. But of cource it's also almost three times more expensive. An other nice finnish speaker is Chorus and it's Mondo lineup. The Mondo77i could be a good choice between the Helium and Argon.

About receivers the power is not always everything. The T743 is nice, but some people find it thinner sounding than it's bigger brothers. Also it's quite short of features, but on the other hand it's very logical and easy to use. If possible go and compare the T743 vs T753 with same speakers and see if you can hear any difference between them at lower volumes. Make your decicions based on what you hear with your own ears.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Goldenarrow

Post Number: 74
Registered: Jun-04
Anna,

Not exactly. Setting all the speakers to Large in the 565 only avoids a limitation built into the player that you may not be able to hear anyway (And that limitation only pertains to SACD playback). Maybe it would be best to not worry about that since the Pioneer is probably your least expensive and least important expense (at this point).

Just think of it this way:
If you end up buying a multichannel receiver the only thing about bass management that you need to remember is:

- SACD and DVD-A music playback uses the Pioneer player (or whatever one you buy) bass management settings

- DVD movies and music videos uses the receiver's bass management settings

I think it can get too confusing if you try to think beyond this, you'll be just fine with these settings. Besides, if you do not get a subwoofer, then you really don't need to worry about bass management yet.

And do go to a good dealer who can let you listen to the difference between stereo and multichannel. That will ultimately be a more important decision.

Hope that helps!

goldenarrow
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 19
Registered: May-04
Goldenarrow:
It sounds that neither 565 nor 575 are perfect. less expensive worse function;-) In this case I should buy better player instead, Pioneer DV-668av or Denon DVD-2200. The 668 may be better since it contains pure audio control and HDMI video output. What do you think? Thanks!
Anna
 

New member
Username: Kaisuliina

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jul-04
Hi Landroval, I'll go to listen to some speakers soon, it's been a great help getting some ideas what speakers are worth taking a look at.

I'll see if I could try both receivers. I kind of wish my ear doesn't have an expensive taste for music but let's see. I would basically listen to music with lower volumes so if then the difference in receivers is noticable I guess I should take it into account.

I'll get back after making some conclusions of my own and maybe if I have some doubts you could help a landmate still with your great experince ;-). Thanks a lot for now.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Goldenarrow

Post Number: 76
Registered: Jun-04
Anna,

In general, of course there will have to be some shortcuts in manufacture or design with less price. It seems the way the universe works. But the sonic difference that YOUR ears can tell between the cheaper Pioneer players vs. the higher end ones or the Denon 2200 (very fine machines for "mid-level" players) might be different from what MY ears can hear. I believe in something a little controversial, in that I think technology is changing so fast, I personally would put less money towards the DVD player and a little more towards the speakers and amplifier. Other people would tell you to strive for "balance", to get components that are in a similar price tier within each prospective category (low-end with low-end, mid-level with mid-level, and such). I am different in that, if I judge that I will be getting rid of a DVD player in two years because new ones have more features but are half the cost that they were, there is less incentive for me to put more money into that right now. That's why I bought the 563/565, it is "good enough" for me now and, I believe, better ones will be cheaper later. You really should listen for yourself and then adopt a philosophy that will work for you, what is good for me might not be good for you.

That brings up the point of needing a budget. After it is all said and done, you will need money to buy all these wonderful hi-rez discs people are talking about. The costs can get exponential!!! I have been slow to buy discs, I only have 10 SACD or DVD-A music discs and only two music videos. And I buy some of my DVD movies used, they are 25% cheaper than new discounted.

Of course, this is all my opinion and based on my circumstances. To me, great speakers should last 20 years, amplifiers almost as long, electronics keep changing, so might last less than half as long.

Is this helping or confusing you?

goldenarrow
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 20
Registered: May-04
Just got some comments form Pioneer company about DV-565 and DV-575:
"this is true when playing an SACD the new DV-575A always converts the Direct Stream Digital
(1-bit) SACD data to PCM and therefore the DV-565A would be a better bet..." But "you must have a very, very, very, serious monitoring
system to be able to determine the difference", which sounds like the difference of the audio performance between two types can not be distinguished;-)
 

New member
Username: Kaisuliina

Post Number: 2
Registered: Jul-04
Hi,
I went to listen to NAD T743, Pioneer DV575 and Amphion Argon2, Dynaudio Audience 122 and 42 speakers. I was quite impressed with all the speakers but still I don't know. Argon2 sounded really amazing but I would need to listen to it more to decide if they're not too detailed to my taste. My dealer also praised the Audience 52SE speakers which they at the moment didn't have though.

I would really appreciate some opinion how these Audience 52SE speakers would go with the 743 receiver (too little power?). And also about expanding later to a home theater: does Argon2 go well with 2xHelium2+1xOrigo and Audience 52 SE with Audience 42+42C? Do you have some ideas Landroval?

When I started this "hobby" I didn't know it would be this difficult :-)!

 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 424
Registered: Feb-04
Hi everyone,

First Anna, I think DSD->PCM conversion is quite stupid. Even if you cant really hear the difference it might have a psychological effect on the sound :-) If you plan to listen to SACDs and dont need the Divx/Pal-prog then you probably should forget the 575.

Kaisuliina, the Audiences are very good speakers, but the SE model has a little different tone than the normal models. It has the treble driver from the new Contour series and better cross-over so it sounds more sophisticated than the non-SEs. They probably are a bit softer sounding than the Amphions, but also not as clear and 'high endish'. The 52SE is a great option for music and works very well with NAD, but the 42C is really not capable of keeping up with, it sounds smaller and different. With Amphion there are no such problems because all the speakers are shielded and can be used as a center. If you plan to get Argon2's for fronts then you should get one for the center channel too. The Origo is fine, but it's still a little weaker than the Argon2. As for surrounds the Helium2's will do fine. If you want a cheaper system consider also 3xOrigo for the fronts and 2xHelium2 to the back or even 5xOrigo if multi-ch music is your thing. I dont remember if you were going to get a sub also but if yes you could also try the Gradient Prelude speakers. They're a little cheaper than the Argon2 or 52SE, but with a sub they will create an amazing multi-ch system. They're also easier to place and I think they look cool.
 

New member
Username: Kaisuliina

Post Number: 3
Registered: Jul-04
Thanks landroval, I'm not into listening to multichannel music yet so I'd like first just two speakers that do fine with music basically. And preferably so that I don't need the sub right away.

So if I will find the Dynaudio 52SE really nice sounding should I then get one of those also for the center channel if I want to expand? And will Audience 42 do surrounds fine?

Also about the receiver still, I read somewhere that SE52 needs lots of (?) power to be at its best. I don't have the possibility to comapare the receivers but I think that with my money I could only go for the next model, T753. Do I really need to worry?

Many thanks for the help you've given already.

Eh, psychological effect? Nice. :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 425
Registered: Feb-04
The only problem with the 52SE as a center is that it's not magnetically shielded, so if you're using a traditional CRT television you cant place the speaker very close to it. For surrounds the 42 will do fine, they sound a little different than the 52SE, but I dont think it will matter. Also the Argon2 and Helium2 sound different, but they too can be used as fronts and rears in the same system.

If you like the 52SE better over the Argon2 I suggest you also go and listen the B&W 705. It's a lot less brigth than the Argon2 so it could be easier to listen.

You're right about the Audience series being a little greedy on power. They're nominally 4ohm speakers with an impedance minimum around 3ohm, so they need a lot of current to run well. The Amphions are easier 8ohm with a minimum at ~6ohm so they dont need as much current.

The T753 is a big step up from the T743, it has a lot of new features, more connections, more channels and power and some say it has better bass reproduction and a warmer sound, so I think it would by wise to get it over the T743, especially if you go with the Dynaudio set.

BTW if you're looking to buy the NAD at Helsinki S&C you should know that they definitely are not the cheapest place available. If you're going for a trip to Tallinn go check a place Audiocenter. They have all NADs for cheap prices (T753 for ~700euro) and they give full 2-year warranty. They already have a lot of custerms in Finland.
http://www.audiocenter.ee/
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1874
Registered: Dec-03
Great advice from landroval.

Brief comments. If a dealer said to me 'But "you must have a very, very, very, serious monitoring system to be able to determine the difference"' then I would ask him to demonstrate that. My cynical view is that the remark might mean that HE cannot tell the difference, on any system; or, perhaps, has not tried it, himself.

I have also read that recording companies and studios are advised to convert from DSD to PCM for editing. This would suggest that convertion is not, in itself, an issue; but how well the Pioneer DV-575 does the convertion might well be. Pioneer is a big enough company to set its own technical standards, I think.

"psychological effect" equals "peace of mind". It is an elusive goal! You can pay a fortune for equipment (or cables) in search of it, but still fail to find it. The best we can do is probably to listen; think critically about claims made; compare notes with others; make a decision; then enjoy the music. One can always keeping an open mind about the possibility of improvement, without worrying too much about whether one could have done better in the first place. One has to start somewhere.

Hope that helps.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 426
Registered: Feb-04
Ignorance is bliss =]
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1875
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks, landroval. But that was not my point, at all. There is no alibi for ignorance. My point is the opposite of that. Worrying about failing to reach perfection is torture. You have to start somewhere. Otherwise there is no way to improve.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 989
Registered: Dec-03
to a certain degree i understand landrovals point
and would basically call the 563/565 a throw away
player at that price point.

if you want a descent player and upgrade in a few
years than it's the way to go.

if are going to keep the player and won't be doing any
upgrades soon than my vote would be the denon 2200.

but like john was trying to say just because the
player does a conversion doesn't mean it's bad.
it could be bad enough to hear it and it might not be.

also from what iv'e learned if you don't use the
bass management in the player it doesn't do the conversion.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 428
Registered: Feb-04
John, yeah I know, It's always good to understand how and why things do what they do so you can improve your system to match your likings.

KEGGER, yes if money is not an issue it probably would be wise to get a better player. Although that extra money could always be spent in better speakers, but also there of course has to be a balance in the system.

My friend has a Denon 1400 and I didn't like it too much. The construction was a bit flimsy, cd playback was worse than a very old mid-end H/K cd-player, but picture was ok. Probably the 2200 is better but is it worth the price?

If SACD is not important then the options for the player grow wider. The NAD T533, T562, the new Rotel RDV-1050 and the Cambridge Audio 540D are great players and will also provide excellent CD-playback wich is important for most people.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 990
Registered: Dec-03
I have both players.

my point was if you are going to upgrade anytime soon
than for $150 or less the pioneer is a great player
and if for that price it helps you get something
better somewhere else in the system then do it.
i love the little player.

but if you were the type of person that does an upgrade once and until that unit no longer functions
you keep it. than the 2200 may be a wiser choice.
as it is a little better unit all the way around
including how well it's built that it should last
you longer.

but their is no night and day difference between
the 2 the pioneer would sound fine in any system
but the denon a little better.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 429
Registered: Feb-04
Ok, I see. I have no idea what the 2200 costs in the US, but here in Finland the price difference is just too big. The DVD2200 goes for 790-890 euro while the Pioneer 575 is around 220 euro.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 992
Registered: Dec-03
yah yur right thats a pretty big difference.
 

Unregistered guest
landroval and goldenarrow- your advice offered is some of the best I have seen on any forum, anywhere: clear, objective and comprehensive.

An area landroval touched on, speaker cabinet resonance will ruin many speaker presentations that otherwise are excellent overall; uncontrolled bass vibrations are downright ugly and few do it right. Dynaudio, as mentioned, is one that does it right. Many "audiophiles" (which I am not), consider Dynaudio the premier affordable speaker offering- the overall balance and neutrality, transparency, soudstage are some of the very best. I own Snells which are sonically similar to Dynaudio and only offer a better aesthetic value to my eyes. Dynaudios have a terrific resale value.

Many of the speakers discussed are reviewed at http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_list.asp?category=SPK&subcategory=LSPKS. It may be of interest.

The critical "ghost component" to any set up, as landroval and goldenarrow already know, is room acoustics: room size/volume, window/floor treatment, furnishings/upholstery, masonry fireplace plus speaker wall/corner placement. If possible, audition electronics and speakers in your unique listening room or buy from a dealer that allows returns/exchanges; your money and satisfaction will probably be best served.

landroval and goldenarrow, again, great thread.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 21
Registered: May-04
Hello Landroval and Goldenarrow:
I just bought the Pioneer DV-565. It looks pretty OK. Saving the money for a better loudspeaker system as you both suggested;-) Good news is that the NAD lower the price. I will go right away to buy T763 and B&W 704:-)The center and rear speakers will be in the waiting list (can't afford at the same time). Could you please tell me how good the cables I should buy. The dealers always encourage you to buy the most expensive ones but I feel that it is kind of overpriced. Then, what are the appropriate ones for the analog connection and the loudspeak connection? Thanks!
Anna
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 430
Registered: Feb-04
Hi, yeah, you dont need to spend a fortune on wires, although with equipement that good you should not take the cheapest options either.

For speakers I suggest Monster Cable MCX-1S, it costs something like 9 euro/m so depending on the length you dont have to sacrifice your 2 week vacation to Bahama... If you cant find the Monster you could get Supra Ply 3.4 or Taralabs Klara or Omni III.

For the analog connection between the player and the amp it will be sufficent to get some basic RCA cables from Taralabs/Monster/etc.

Good luck with your system.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Goldenarrow

Post Number: 81
Registered: Jun-04
Anna,

I am jealous of your NAD and B&W's, I'll give you my firstborn and two pints of blood? :-) I love the sound of my T752 and the learning remote is easy to setup. But for now I am living with my old NHT speakers until I have enough money to upgrade. In the mean time I listen to the music.

I agree with landroval that many cables are overpriced. I also think that many sellers of cables unnecessarily make it complex to make you feel dependent upon them. On the other hand, I also think that Monster Cable sells cables that are still a little bit overpriced, but certainly good cables to keep for the long run. I forgot what country you are from, but in the States I can get Acoustic Research cables that offer good solid construction techniques at a substantial discount to Monster Cable (from mail-order sources on the internet).

Here is a web site that gives good advice to first-time buyers of cables. They are also in the States but the info in the articles is good nonetheless.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/index.htm

And here is a tara-labs article also, although I have no experience with their cables:

http://www.taralabs.com/difference.asp

I don't know what the cable scene is like in Europe (if that is where you live). I have read in the past that QED makes reasonable cables but maybe more expensive (unnecessarily so) than Monster Cable.

Have FUN with your new system. A good stereo-only SACD to try (a high resolution SACD recording only in stereo, not 5.1 multichannel) is the Stravinsky Firebird Suite by the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra:

http://www.telarc.com/sacd/title.asp?sku=SACD-60039

It will give you the highs and lows, soft and loud, voices and instruments. Telarc in general has some very good high-rez recordings. Some of them, like the one mentioned above are stereo-only, so you don't lose anything not having a 5.1 surround setup.

I have also been delving into a few weird/off-beat ones from www.chesky.com.

I have been reading the user reviews on amazon.com and trying to weed out the ones that are extreme in either direction (those that just gush, and those that just crush). Interesting resource, if you can figure out how to use it judiciously.

Enjoy!

goldenarrow
 

Bronze Member
Username: Goldenarrow

Post Number: 82
Registered: Jun-04
JW,

Thanks for the comments. Not any one person will have all the answers and I am glad there are others more experienced than me to fill in the considerable gaps in my opinions. It is also a great way to learn what one's own preferences are and why. I am just trying to give back a little (and I don't have a lot of time), based on all the help I have gotten from others on this forum! :-) Also, I have learned most when I ask really dumb-sounding questions and sought out the most experienced answerers.

Yes, when I go speaker shopping (not necessarily anytime soon), I will definitely be listening (and comparing) more carefully and thoroughly than in the past. But like you and landroval have said, room acoustics make a big difference as well. It is hard doing that kind of thing "on the cheap", although I did build my own sandbox for my subwoofer to absorb excess vibrations. There is so much more to do, like a diffusion panel on the front wall, absorption panels to the sides and maybe even the ceiling, maybe a parametric EQ for the sub, etc. When I get tired of thinking about it, I just listen to some music.

However, I am jealous of Anna's 704's, maybe if I cut out a kidney and sell it on eBay, hmmm.....
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 22
Registered: May-04
Hello Goldenarrow and Landroval:
Thank you very much for always being there and giving your professional suggestion. I am living in Stockholm. So far, only the brand cable from the taralabs can be found here. I need to save the money to buy all these staffs and SACD/DVD-A disc, and... ;-) Thanks again!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1884
Registered: Dec-03
Consider for sources of good quality, but "no frills" cables and interconnects:

Anna:
http://www.clasohlson.se/
http://www.kjell.com

Landroval:
http://www.clasohlson.fi/

There may be others. These are similar to the US "Radio shack", I think. They have boutiques, where you can browse around: six Claes Ohlsson boutiques in Stockholm.

In N Europe generally, the following is a good electrical/electronics, supplier, but has fewer actual shops (one in Stockholm). You save a lot on e.g. speaker cables by buying this way. Often the branded cables are exactly the same as the ones supplied by these sorts of companies, except you pay extra for the name printed on them, advertising, etc etc..

http://www.elfa.se/
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 433
Registered: Feb-04
Thanks John. Clas Ohhlson is nice, but they sell the same stuff than Biltema with double price. If you dont want to pay for TaraLabs (probably it's not even worth it) go to Biltema and get either this:
http://www.biltema.se/products/product.asp?iSecId=543&iItemId=14718 (the 4,0mm^2)
or this:
http://www.biltema.se/products/product.asp?iSecId=543&iItemId=39298
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 23
Registered: May-04
Woo! Thank you all for providing so much information. The price looks very cheap than I expected. Is the quality good enough? Of course,it might be difficult to be distinguished by our ears, I hope;-) I just test the SCART cables when I connected DV-575 to Sony 32' 100MHz TV-set and set RGB output. One SCART was from TechLink so called high-end cable and costed around 85 EURO. The other was no brand, got from ClasOhlson and costed around 16 EURO. As a matter of fact, I can not see any difference in picture quality between these two cables. So, can we get the conclusion that we should not rely on the advertisment especially about the branded cables and such a cable may just affect the actual performance marginally?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1891
Registered: Dec-03
landroval,

Many thanks. the first cable looks very much like the one I have for centre and surrounds, except mine in 2.5 mm diameter, and came from a high street retailer. It seems fine for the 10 m run I have.

Anna,

The other thing to know, for speaker cable, is to have the same length and gauge for left, right, and centre channels. Surround channels should also have the same length as each other for left and right. I think simple, well-made, unbranded speaker and interconnecting cables are not distinguishable from expensive branded cable, and am not surprised at what you found with the SCART connectors. Also, I have not met or talked to an electronics engineer who has any time for the claims made for exotic cables. But there are furious debates about this elsewhere. I do not wish to start another "cable war" on your nice thread! Audio dealers somtimes have a vested interest in selling unnecessarily expensive cables.

Good luck!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 24
Registered: May-04
John A,
Is the 6mm diameter loudspeaker cable better than 4mm? I found that it cost only 16 kr/m for 6mm compared with 14kr/m for 4mm in ClasOhlson you suggested. High-end speakers always have so called bi-wire input. Is bi-wire better than mono-wire or no big difference between them? Thanks!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1899
Registered: Dec-03
Anna,

I have forgotten what I have. I think maybe a 10 m run of 4 mm is fairly safe. It depends on the length, too. Basically the resistance is proportion to the length and inversely proporational to the square of the diameter. Impedance is not so simple. So I am told.

Where I think there is some point in paying extra for "peace of mind"... (meaning your are not sure whether there will be a difference) is when the cable is cheap in the first place. If the difference is only 2 kr/m (US equals around 10 cents a foot very roughly). So personally I would be inclined to get 6 mm, in your place. If you have two runs of say 10 m then the extra cost is only 40 kr (about $ 4 ?) so, if it is money wasted, it is not much, certainly not compared with buying "high-end" stuff. That is what I would do.

Other will disagree, I am sure!

I read debates about bi-wiring and have no experience or understanding of that. Sorry! All I can suggest is that you try "search" on this forum. Simple wiring will get you going. You can add biwiring later. Even advocates of biwiring estimate that the effect is small. Its critics say it has no effect at all. You could try it, and add your opinion....
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 25
Registered: May-04
Well, The sound from 705 seems to be brighter and closer(?) than that from 704 when the valumn is set low, where the bass does not perform well either on 704. That means that you can not distingush the bass performance between these two loudspeakers. I don't know if my feeling is correct. But I am considering to change loudspeakers from 704 to 705 and buy a good subwoofer for kind of bass compansation especially in low volumn;-)

Landroval: you have recommended that both the REL strata III/5 and the MJ Acoustics Reference 1 are specially good for music. I wonder if you have tested these two in comparison with B&W sub since the power output of these two is only 150w.

Any other experts' comments or suggestion are also very appreciated.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 481
Registered: Feb-04
I agree the 705+sub is better than just the 704.

I've heard a couple RELs (Quake2, Strata3 etc) and they are very good with music. The amount of bass is not overwhelming, but they're very accurate and they easily go under 20Hz. For a bigger room and need of thunderous bass they're not the rigth choice.

I have no personal experience on the MJA, but the reviewers and users have been happy with it. The Reference 1 is maybe a better allround sub, but it doesn't go as deep as the RELs. For movies it'll give more bass when using reasonable volumes. They say it's very pleasing for the ear and also for the eyes.

If you can find an Amphion dealer then check out the new Impact 500. I haven't heard it but people say it outperforms most under 1500 euro subs with movies and music.

For more movie balanced use I suggest Velodyne SPL2 series and maybe also the B&W ASW's.
 

Anonymous
 
Hi

On Saturdays, I work for a dealership in the UK that deals in the B&W 700 series, REL subs, NAD products and the Pioneer DVD players. We also do some significantly higher end audio stuff. :-) We're predominantly music oriented so take any advice I write with a pinch of salt, OK? I'm hoping I can help a little with my view here.

Anna, you need to be careful with the placement of the speakers. The 704s need quite a bit of free space in order to get them to work. If you're closer than 60cm from the rear wall, they will give a big bass honk which you can't get rid of. The 705s are easier to manage in this respect since they don't have the bass output of the 704s, but they don't scale as much obviously. Biwiring does help both these speakers incidentally, with better separation and grip.

We used to deal with MJ and they are fine subs, but I think REL have stolen a march with the new Stampede and Strata5. These are very good subs indeed and their new remote controlled multi-program software makes them much more useful since you can set them up differently for different applications such as movies vs music video vs music vs quiet music! Also, you don't just set crossover and volume values, you can set several parameters. The thing I really like about these two new subs is that they're both sealed units. This means they don't have a port and don't go as deep as some subs, but the bass they deliver is both tight and fast. The only other make which comes close appears to be Velodyne, but I haven't played with them at all. Colleagues of mine tell me they were very impressed with it.

On the subject of cables, the hot make here in the UK is Chord Co. but they're not particularly cheap. The entry level is Chord Carnival at £2.50/m. We would use this for the rears. Then the fronts would want either Chord Rumour (£10/m) or Odyssey(£17/m). These cables work well in the context of an NAD receiver. In terms of surround sound, the centre speaker is very important indeed. Try to go for the best you can afford on that speaker. I know cables should be matched, the Chord range all have the same presentation so they can be intermixed. If taralabs is the same, (your dealer can tell you), then the same philosophy should work.

We always use the Chord Co Prodac Silver Plus between DVD and receiver. It's £60 (1m) and just the best below silly money. Analogue interconnects do make a big difference. A cheap RCA cable is unlikely to be anywhere near as good as a more expensive one. If you don't trust the dealer, ask him to demo the difference on a simple stereo system. This means you won't have a distracting picture to look at! :-) Personally I agree that the video cables make little to no difference at the level you are lookiing at. The Pioneer has an excellent video output but still there's little to justify an expensive cable, especially if you use a SCART connector which isn't such good quality anyway (BNC is good quality and even RCA is better than a SCART, generally speaking - the only really good SCART-based cable is QED's SQART but I still think you wouldn't see a major difference - at least I don't!).

Kaisuliina, I don't know if you've done the deed yet, so I hope this is useful to you. We are also Dynaudio dealers. I have no experience with the Amphions.

The Dynaudio Audience 52SE is a fine speaker. You are right that Dynaudios generally require a bit more juice than many loudspeakers. Therefore the 753 would be the minimum requirement in my view. Also, the centre speaker is possibly the most important speaker in the surround sound setup. Dynaudio make a 122C centre which is absolutely brilliant and much better than the 42C. If I were buying a surround sound dominated system such as the one you are considering (DV575/T753), I think I would consider buying a different combination and redistributing the money a little. I would go down to either Audience 52s or 62s (nearly the same price since the 52s need stands) and a 122C centre speaker. At the back you can happily put 42s or if they would be close to the wall, you could consider the 42Ws which hang on the wall, take less space and mean you don't spend money on stands. I'd recommend either a REL Stampede or Strata5 sub with this system.

I hope these words are helpful. I don't usually visit this forum and happened to come by it while doing some research (i.e. surfing) on a very different subject!

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Anna

Post Number: 26
Registered: May-04
Thank you Landroval and especially Frank for such a useful information and professional suggestion. I finally found the dealer for REL and will go there for choosing. To my surprise, The price of the Strata 3 is more expensive than Strata 5 here in Stockholm. I think that Strata 5 must be newer than 3. Since the Strata 3 is havier than 5, the quility is therefore better than Strata 5. My idea may be naive;-)
Very interesting is that there are lots of good words to the NAD A/V receiver in this forum. However, it is hard to find the editorial review to NAD A/V receiver but most to DENON. Why?
 

New member
Username: Kaisuliina

Post Number: 7
Registered: Jul-04
I must ask, I saw that the NAD prices have gone down in Sweden, Norway and Denmark. The dealer says they can offer better prices to customers because of cheaper components due to technical development (www.hifiklubben.com). Is this something that should then generally be happaning in other countries too, the price reduction I mean?

I was planning to get a receiver soon and I'm just wondering, I'm no thousandaire so I wouldn't like to find out two weeks after a purchase that I paid a hundred for nothing. And I guess asking the finnish dealer about this would be just too cruel and maybe no use.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2028
Registered: Dec-03
Kaisuliina,

I think the price drop has more to do with exchange rates. My guess is it has not happened in the Euro Zone (inc Finland, which is also in HFK's territory) or in N. America, for example. By the way HFK is owned by AudioNord Distribution, in Denmark. They used to own NAD, before Lenbrook (Canada) acquired it. But they still take a close interest, are regional distributors, and only import quality products. The good thing about that is that the central service and technical back-up and expertise is first class, if you need it. Of course there are other quality products not in their catalogue, and I think they choose not to compete with themselves. So no KEF against their B&W, or Harman-Kardon or Marantz against their NAD, for example, all comparable brands.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 507
Registered: Feb-04
Hifi Klubben is no longer in Finland. The importer of B&W Speaker Finland bought the Finnish departement of HFK and now they have their own shop under the name of Helsinki Sound & Cinema. In addition to B&W they sell also Denon, NAD, Rotel and Dali.

This also changed the NAD importer. It's now a company named AH-Hifisystems:
http://www.ah-hifisystems.fi/
 

New member
Username: Kaisuliina

Post Number: 8
Registered: Jul-04
John A.
Ok, that's a very reasonable explanation actually: euros. Thank you for your enlightenment, I'll be buying my receiver feeling more at ease now :-).

Frank
Thanks also to Frank. My system will be stereo dominated now in the beginning and basically for music. That's why I'm interested in putting a little more money into front speakers. My own dealer says T743 is enough with Dynas but I've heard others also say that it may not be. It's pretty much money to add (over 300euros) but I'll ask to try T753 now as well as I found out my dealer has it after all. I feel I'm dealing with emotions and believes here, not knowing where the fact lies. But your comment was helpful anyway as I'm trying to find my own "belief"!
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 510
Registered: Feb-04
Kaisuliina, for a music oriented system the T743 will be very sufficent even with Dyns. The T753 is not that much different in terms of sound quality, it only has a little more power and better connectivity.

What speakers are you going to get? 52SE or something else? If you go with the 52SE it would probably be best to not get a center speker at all. The 42C just does not work.

If you want something cheaper but very nice none the less I suggest you go to MRHifi and listen the Tannoy Sensys DC1 and DCC center.

Also the Quad 12L and 21L would be interesting choices for demanding music listening. They can be heard at Concept Hifi and HifiPiste. Hifipiste has also the Argon2 and Mondo77i if you're interested.
 

New member
Username: Kaisuliina

Post Number: 9
Registered: Jul-04
Landroval,
You moved the scale again :-). I just noticed that T753 has a patented PowerDrive amplifier circuit(?!), which T743 doesn't have. I don't know what difference this makes to the sound quality itself but if not much then I'm very happy staying with T743.

I'm not sure about the speakers yet. I tried the Argon2 at home with T743 and I felt they were missing a little something with certain music even though I liked them a lot with other music (eh, I'm bothered that my ultimate favourite CD didn't sound perfect with them). They were great with a 3000 euros Musical Fidelity amp though. But with NAD they were missing something, if only I knew the word what it is, something to do with bass and roundness (?).

I heard Dynaudio 52SE with that Fidelity amp but have to wait to hear them with NAD still. They sounded good as well but I'm sure that amp is to blame as with Argons. They sounded less analytical than Argon2 which could be what I'm looking for.

I don't live in the capital city area so my options are a little more limited. That Mondo series my dealer should have too so I could take a look at them. Not having a center speaker sounds ok to me at least at the moment. What importance would you give to the center channel in a home theatre (in not so big room)?
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 514
Registered: Feb-04
The only sure way to see if the T753 is better than the T743 is to try them side by side. I can say for sure that neither is even close to the MF, but that's also very understandable. If you're mostly interested in stereo music, you should probably get a stereoamp and just two speakers. Multichannel isn't the only way to go, not even with movies.

I'm myself a fan of center speakers, but I have to admit that it's not that important in some situations. Basically if your left and rigth speakers wont be too far away from each other and there usually wont be many people using the system, it will be ok to not have a center speaker. Also if you listen a lot of stereo music and not these new multichannel formats (DVD-Audio,SACD) it would be wise to get just a stereo setup. All DVD-movies have a 2.0-channel track which will play beautifully through two speakers. Also if you later feel you need multichannel, you can just get an additional multichannel receiver and a couple speakers and let your stereo-amp drive your mains.
Dont pay for something you wont use.
 

New member
Username: Kaisuliina

Post Number: 10
Registered: Jul-04
Landroval, many thanks for your comments again. I find your messages very down to earth like and helpful.

Yes, I've thought about this stereo system too as that's what my setup would be in the beginning anyway. Maybe I should think about it more. The A/V receiver just sounds very appealing since it has it all: multicahnnel and radio. But I have to admit they are not the main things I'm looking for at the moment. I was looking at C352 which would be in a good price range.

But then, is having a DVD palyer (Pioneer DV575) with a stereo amp a crime and "shivers in the back"- combination?
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 518
Registered: Feb-04
It's no crime to use a DVD-player with a stereo amp. Although in that case I would put a little more money to the player because with a stereo amp it's quality is more significant because the decoding and digital to analog conversion will be done in the player. Usually CD and DVD players have better DACs than receivers so it's not really a problem, probably the quality will be even better that way. I would look at Cambridge Audio Azur 540D and NAD T533 or something similar.

You could also get a stereo receiver if you need radio. The H/K 3480 RDS would be a safe bet.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Kaisuliina

Post Number: 12
Registered: Jul-04
Hi,
I have decided to leave T743/T753 problem behind and go for a stereo amp problem instead. I listened to NAD 320BEE today with Amphion Argon2 speakers and it was pretty ok but I was planning to go for C352 or C372 (which the dealer doesn't have).

I would like to ask if the extra power and quality that C372 has compared to 320BEE would change the sound of a speaker to more full bodied and pleasant when now it sounded a bit cold? I seem to like the detailed and alive sound of Argon2 speaker very much but it gets a bit tiring with some music. (I was testing it with T743 receiver when I got this idea.)

 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 544
Registered: Feb-04
I dont believe C320->C372 change will help that much if the combination with the C320 sounds cold and tiring. Maybe you should try the Argon2 with some different brand amps. A Rotel RA1062 would be a safe try, it should be quite easy for the ear. Also consider Primare I20 (maybe a bit too cold sound), Creek A50i (should be ok), Vincent SV 226MkII (tube-transistor hybrid, should be warm enough), Cambridge Audio Azur 640A (warm and soft sound, low price). You could also look for 2nd hand amps, you could a better device for a low price, Musical Fidelity, Densen, Arcam etc.
 

Anonymous
 
Hello again, still passing through - couldn't resist seeing what the responses were!

Anna, the Strata5 is better than the Strata3. It also replaces the Strata3. The Strata5 has a better power amplifier and is more flexible than the '3 since it has many more adjustments, all programmable via remote control, which makes it much easier to setup as well. I can't understand why the Strata5 is cheaper than the Strata3, but I suggest you get it while the dealer doesn't realize his mistake. Incidentally, are you sure it was the Strata5 and not the new Stampede? The Stampede is cheaper and not as good as either the Strata3 or 5.

landroval, I've played around with both the 743 and 753 quite a bit. Although the numbers are similar, the 753 seems to have a lot better drive and a much better preamp stage, particularly in terms of transparency and resolution.

Kaisuliina, if you are really looking at 2-channel now, then there are a whole host of European makes that could be interesting to you. Generally I find that the European specialists make more musically involving electronics. The problem is that their surround sound options are usually very expensive! Incidentally, landroval sugested you listen to the Rotel 1062 integrated amp. I agree that this is a fine amplifier and you should listen to it if you have the choice.

If you still want to add surround sound in the future, the only feature you want to look for on the 2-channel amp is a unity gain feature. When this is switched on, the amp acts purely as a power amp on that input and the volume control has no effect. Therefore, when you add a surround sound amp, you can plug it into your A/V input (which would be set to unity gain) and use that to drive your front speakers. The surround sound amp would power the centre and rears. Unity gain is a nice feature, otherwise you would have to setup the system with the 2-channel amp set to a predefined volume position (like 12 o'clock on the dial) and then every time you switched back for music you would have to remember to lower the volume or your ears would get blasted! Having said all that, the 2-channel amp you choose should be the one you like the sound of best, not just the one with this feature! If you prefer the sound of a Densen Beat100 over a Naim Nait5i, then buy the Densen.

I'm surprised you describe the C320BEE as cold and tiring. This is not normally an attribute I would associate with this amplifier. However, it is quite neutral and therefore the ancillaries such as CD player and cables could affect it in this way. I would also choose a dedicated CD player over a DVD player. Generally they sound a lot better, but of course, if you want to watch movies through the system, then you'll need a DVD player! In this case, however, I would not go with the Pioneers. Generally the Pioneers have stunning picture quality for the money, but their sonic ability is quite below that of other players. I think they're used mainly as transports and so this has not affected their sales. If you can stretch to something like an Arcam DV78, you may be surprised at how much better this sounds. In fact, the Arcams have a generally full rich sound. The Arcam DV78 would make the sound that much warmer and more appealing through the C320BEE. This would be a source-first system which would also please a stereo purist like me! :-)

The C352/C372 have more power than the C320BEE. Once again, if you decide to go for something like the Dynaudio Audience 52, I suggest you listen to the 352/372 with it. Of course, allt his depends on your budget and I'm a little concerned that I don't now what the options are since the prices probably differ to the UK quite a bit!

I'm beginning to wonder whether I should register on this forum...

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Kaisuliina

Post Number: 13
Registered: Jul-04
Hi Frank, Landoval and everyone,
This should go under amp section already but I hope it doesn't matter if I go on here. Landroval's words made me rethink the option of going for a stereo equipment once more and now after listening some I'm sure I've done the right decision. I've got a much better sound for the money compared to the A/V receiver. Thanks for your patience.

So far I've got a pair of Argon2 speakers and a cheap DVD player (Pioneer DV-360). I'm planning to get a seperate CD-player. I've had NAD C320BEE for the weekend to burn in my speakers and I take all my words back about NAD sounding cold. Quite the opposite. I simply don't know how I could hear it cold but now at home it was ok. Compared to NAD T743 it sounds good even with this basic DVD-player that I'm sure is a crap compared to a dedicated CD-player. The bass is stronger but still tight and accurete.

My dealer has a Rotel 1062 amp but with Argon2 he refused to plug it (and I didn't insist it either then) as he thought it simply wasn't a good match. Maybe I'll ask to hear it still out of curiosity. I've heard Arcam goes well with my speakers (from Amphion itself) but auditioning them is not so easy. I've been thinking of used FMJ22 or new A80. Those I believe also have that AV connectivity that Frank mentioned (sounds like a nice faeture!).

Tomorrow I get a NAD C372 to try out. What do you think of all these options? My budget is <1000 euros and I am looking for a warm sounding amp (the speaker is rather bright compared to Dynaudio for example) without losing the details and the musicality. I'm enjoying all the little sounds that I never heard before.

Thanks again.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 608
Registered: Feb-04
Nice to hear you like real quality over overestimated surround sound. The difference between similar priced 2.0 and 5.1 sound systems is just amazing.

I think Rotel and Amphion do match quite well, you should at least try the 1062. Arcam is a safe choice, especially the FMJ will be great. C352 and C372 are good but I'm not sure if they can compare to higher end Arcams, MFs etc.

One interesting option are the Vincent tube-transistor hybrids. For example the SV226MkII (799e) integrated amp, the SA31 preamp (399e) and SP331 power amp (799e) or two SP996 class-a transistor power amps (2*299e). You can find them here:
http://www.stereo.fi/
http://www.hifikrug.fi/
http://www.vincent-tac.de/en/start.htm

You could look for 2nd hand amps at shops, but also at online buy/sell pages. The Webtori of HIFI magazine is a good place to start. There was a Primare A-20, Pathos Classic One, Musical Fidelity A300 and A3.2 and a Vincent SV-233 just no name a few.
http://www.hifilehti.fi/keskustelu/tt.asp?forumid=63
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 11
Registered: Sep-04
Hi

Kaisuliina, I'm glad you're looking into the stereo option since I think this is what you were after originally. I'm surprised the dealer would not put the 1062 onto the speakers. It's much more capable than the 320BEE so there should not be a problem with driving the Amphions. However, it would not be fair to put in the 1062 'cold' if comparing to a warm NAD amp. The 1062 sounds cold when it's cold (!) and needs time to warm up, just like any good amp.

The 2nd hand FMJ A22 is also a good idea, especially if Amphion themselves recommend it. It was a nice sounding amp, a bit warm (as all Arcams are) with good timing and swing. Try to use quality cables if possible, such as Chord Co. Silver Siren interconnect and Chord Rumour or Odyssey speaker cable.

Good luck!

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Kaisuliina

Post Number: 14
Registered: Jul-04
Frank and Landroval, a final note from me to this wrong subject: I'm a happy owner of Arcam full metal jacket A22. It was an easy choise in the end. That amp made me forget about all hifi and I could just enjoy the music. If I had to describe the sound it is very natural and dynamic. A bit warm, yes.

And the home theatre I must forget about as the amp doesn't have a processor loop. But I'm so satisfied with these 2 channels now that I don't worry.

Thank you for your guidance to the right track and all the help you gave. I learned a LOT about good sound in this couple of months. Now I'll need to take a break and enjoy the music ;-)!
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 683
Registered: Feb-04
Congratulations on your new setup. A22+Argon2 should be great.

Later if you want you can use the Arcam as a power-amp for the fronts and get an av-receiver to deal with center and surround. The processor loop is not obligatory.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Kaisuliina

Post Number: 15
Registered: Jul-04
Ah, well of course. Is there any other difference but that I need to use two remotes to get the right volume?

BTW, I just noticed: ArcamA22+Argon2 What a beautiful match in every sense :-)!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 53
Registered: Sep-04
Kaisuliina,

Very glad you like what you have. Two remotes would be necessary for surround sound duties but it's not a bad solution. To get this right, you just have to setup the surround sound levels with the Arcam set to a high volume (e.g 70). Then whenever you wish to play a DVD, you just set the Arcam to the same volume (70) and use the main processor as the master volume. Typically, you would take the Main-Out of the processor and feed it into the AUX input of the FMJ.

The only limitation with this setup is that you must remember to turn the volume down if you switch back to 'CD' or Tuner to play music, otherwise it would be very LOUD!

Have fun with your FMJ.
Regards,
Frank.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 692
Registered: Feb-04
There's also an other choice to go multi-ch. The A22 can take a DAVE-module which decodes DD/DTS. With a 3-ch power amp and the DAVE you'll have a full Arcam HT-system.
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