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John B. | Hey Guys. Anyone who has a Sony LCD had any problems using DVI connection from DVD player to TV? I have a new Sony KF-50WE610, and I just purchased the new Samsung DVI player (model# DVD-HD931). It's supposed to be the only dvd player out there that actually comes close to showing HD quality DVD's. See link: If the image is bright or if it's a scene in the movie that has alot of light, the image quality is highly detailed (almost HD). But when it has to render black levels it fails badly. Any shadows or dark scenes (night scenes), sometimes I can barely see the person in the picture. But when I switch over to the progressive mode and turn off the DVI mode, the picture looks great, even the black levels. Has anyone seen this problem? I'm about ready to send the player back. I spent $400 in hopes to utilize the DVI. Let me know. Thanks! |
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| John, It sounds like you've got yourself a fine peace of equipment there. Both in terms of the Sony LCD and the Samsung DVD/DVI player. I own the Sony Grand Wega KF-60XBR800 and I've enjoyed its superb picture quality both in HD and DVD content. While I'm not using a DVI input from the DVD player I own I can only comment on what I know about your DVD player from its manual. You might want to look deeper into that booklet to find some very useful and pertinant information regarding your particular problem. It would appear the answer lies in the Progressive Scan vs. DVI and the settings selected. From what I know now, you won't be able to utilize Progressive Scan while keeping the DVI-I as your signal of choice. Herein was found in your manual: Pg. #11: If Progressive Scan is supported, follow the TV Users Manuals instructions regarding Progressive Scan settings in the TVs menu system. If PROGRESSIVE SCAN button is set to on, VIDEO, S-VIDEO and DVI will NOT work. Make sure to stop DVD playback before enabling the PROGRESSIVE SCAN function. Pg. #15: If PROGRESSIVE SCAN is set to on, DVI, VIDEO and S-VIDEO will not work. Pg. #16: If PROGRESSIVE SCAN button is set to on, DVI, VIDEO and S-VIDEO will not work. Also, When you press the DVI VIDEO button 1. The 480p DVI output will be selected when the Red light comes on. 2. The 720p DVI output will be selected when the Blue light comes on. 3. The 1080i DVI output will be selected when the Green light comes on. Pg. #18: If the PROGRESSIVE SCAN button is set to on, the DVI, VIDEO and S-video outputs will be disabled. If the PROGRESSIVE SCAN button is set to off, the LED will be turned off and all of DVI, VIDEO, S-VIDEO and COMPONENT outputs will be enabled. Make sure to stop DVD playback before enabling the progressive scan function. Good luck in decifering the problem with that in mind. Timba |
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John B. | Timba, I appreciate your comments, but I read all of that in the manual already. Even with progressive scan turned off, DVI works but image is just too dark. I took the Samsung back yesterday. And I have a Panasonic progressive scan that is extremely close to the DVI output from Samsung. I saved about 280$. |
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Dale | As a newcomer to DVI, I was glad to stumble across this thread. I am getting the kf60we610 and want a DVI dvd player. Are there any DVI players available that do not exibit the above problems? I know analog is good and less expensive, but as dvd will be an x-mas gift price is no object. Thanks, Dale |
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Brian | If you guys want a beautiful player and are worried about the image with DVI (remember DVI is a pure stream and many tvs cannot be adjusted when this input is on, hence why your set might be displaying so dark, you should have checked the HD931 menu for the black enhancement option)go with the Denon 2200 or the new philips 936. Both have a scaler similiar to the FLI2300 like the HD931 but the video is rated at 108mhz, twice the band width of most others. I have this set in our showroom on two LCD sets and I have to say im VERY impressed. It also plays DVD audio to and SACD, SWEET!!!! The sound output is top notch and you dont have to buy an expensive DVI cable. Also you can change pluge levels and others right in the DVD players menu, super handy when your using the DVD player as the progressive scan source and 3:2, 3:3, 1:1 processing. If Dale has an open budget he cannot lose with this unit. Best of Luck The Wire Guys As Always, Support your local custom home theater Installer. www.thewireguys.net |
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Frank | I also have the same problem as you John. The only difference is I have a KF-60WE610. Same Samsung DVD player. I also posted in the other large thread. Last night I contacted Samsung about this darkness problem and they are sending me a firmware upgrade. I have read about a Samsung firmware upgrade on other forums, and it's contents didn't seem to include a fix for this issue. I asked the support person what was included in this code but he had no idea. Maybe it's a new one with a new fix.(I hope) If this doesn't correct this problem, this DVD player is going right back. A shame really, as the picture is damn nice at 1080i, when the scene is not dark. |
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ConsumerX | I too am very disappointed with the digital signal via DVI. The detail in dark or black scenes are terrible compared to the analog component output of the player. I dont see the upconverting as a plus when sacrificing detail. Even the 480p output of the DVI is worse than the component 480p output regardless of DVI-A or DVI-B selection. Frankly, it seems as though Samsung has really struggled to get this player on the market before any other manufacturers do (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, etc.), which they might consider rediculous due to the native 480 line resolution of the DVDs that are available at present. This is truly evident in the fact that most owners will need the elusive firmware upgrade to get the most out of the equipment. Rushed? I believe so... IMHO, just like plasma technology, the HD DVD players will become more reliable with time, and this player has not impressed me from day one... and definately not at the $300 price range. |
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Derek | Hey guys. If you have an analog TV (CRT) DVI isn't going to do much for you. DVI keaps the signal digital longer which should help but there still is a conversion to analog for the CRTs. DVI is best used for fixed-pixle displays like LCDs, LCOS, DLPs and Plasmas. Conversion, no matter how good it is, to interlaced 1080i is another conversion I wouldn't recommend especially since most DVDs are 480i. You are causing your TV to sync to a higher scan rate but there is not "added" detail. |
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Anonymous | Go over to AVS forum. There is much discussion regarding the 931 having a black crush problem. |
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SuperB | Last week, I too became the proud owner of a KF50we610. So, naturally, when I learn that the HIGHEST and BEST video input is something for which I can create no output, I go shopping (don't we all?). Currently, I'm looking for the perfect DVD player within reasonable means, and this thread has helped me a good deal so far. Up until reading this thread, I thought the Samsung was the one for me, but now I reconsider. I would like to know if anyone has tried adjusting the video mode programming, described on page 69 of the kf__we610 user manual for this problem. It mentions that you can preset the Video menu settings separately for each mode, but packaged with the TV (and not found in the manual) is the addendum: you can preset different video mode to each INPUT, so what you're seeing by quickly flipping back and forth from progressive to DVI may not be apples-to-apples. Please post your finding on this, as I am curious to know if the Samsung DVD player is worth the $256 they're charging on Amazon. Disclaimer: Yes, I know, I read the manual.... As most guys do, I normally pride myself on never needing to read a manual--we're all born knowing how to work this stuff, right? However, when you decide to start living paycheck-to-paycheck and purchase bleeding-edge-technology home theater equipment, humbling yourself enough to realize there MAY be something new worth reading is a good idea. There's my defense. |
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SuperB | For quick reference--the user manual online: http://www.docs.sony.com/release/KF50WE610.pdf |
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ConsumerX | I have the Sony KF42WE610, which I am quite happy with at the moment, and was experiencing the black "washout" problem with the HD931. As a test, I hooked up both the component cables and the DVI to the several inputs in the rear of the TV to conveniently switch from the DVI and analog connections to the DVD player. Even with progressive scan off, and going from 720p/1080i to analog the picture still looked better and more defined in analog. What really blew me away was that the samsung can output 480p with DVI, and that still wasn't as good as the analog signal. The only benefit to the digital signal in DVI was the elimination of motion artifacts. Even adjusting some of the TV's picture settings would not bring the same black level detail to the DVI signal. Also, the DVI signal was too saturated. So with that, I returned the Samsung HD931 with the hopes that other companies will put out a better solution to the DVI output issues being discussed here. I must say, Samsung really sold me on the digital output, but you have to ask yourself, "Why dont other high end electronic companies have something out right now to compete with Samsung?" I sincerely believe that once HD DVD's become available (i.e. greater than 480 lines of resolution), companies like Sony and Pioneer, etc. will have a market to produce HD DVD players. And for this reason, I am holding out on buying alot of DVD's until they do. |
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New member Username: PgleePost Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 | I'm experiencing the same problem with my HD931. It seems the brightness of the DVI is 10% lower than the component interlace and 5% higher than the component progressive. The only remedy I found, is to adjust your tv's brightness level when switching between inputs. I just had my set ISF calibrated and the technician said that this player's DVI outputs don't follow the DVI specs. I've also read that the S-video and composite connections output at different levels as well. Generally sloppy engineering. However, when the tv's brightness level is properly adjusted, the DVI picture is quite outstanding. Heard the VINC Bravo player doesn't have this problem, but seems to be a 3 week waiting period. Paul L. |
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New member Username: PgleePost Number: 2 Registered: 12-2003 | I have to correct myself. Upon closer inspection, the DVI output introduces a lot artifacts. These appear as mottled tiny blocks. I would recommend you avoid this deck. Paul L. |
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New member Username: SerickPost Number: 3 Registered: 12-2003 | It is well known among Sony tv owners that the Sony LCDRP tv's and the Samsung DVI DVD player don't play well together. The Samsung looks great with other tv's - most notably the Samsund DLP sets, but creates a serious black crush problem when used with the Sonys. |
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Unregistered guest | I have a Mitsubishi WS-55613 projection tv and want a good DVD player that will allow 1080i or a picture quality similar. Any suggestions? I was looking at purchasing the samsung DVI player until I read these messages. Thanks for your thoughts. |
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Computer Guy Unregistered guest | I also had high hopes that the Samsung HD931 would meet my expectations- even though I didn't find that the picture was too dark (I had already adjusted brightness and contrast on my Samsung HLN617 DLP TV), I just didn't think that the detail was any better than the standard component input on most DVDs. Watching "Die Another Day", there were some scenes that were actually extremely blurry. Then for Christmas, my wife bought me a $150 DVD-R/RW for my computer and Power DVD 5. I had always read that the cheapest computer looks better than the most expensive DVD player, but I always had my doubts. No more! I have my computer hooked up to the VGA input of the TV running 1280 x 720, and it looks better than any other DVD player I have ever seen. The picture was a little dark, but a quick adjustment to gamma and brightness on the video card fixed it. I now have an image that (in my opinion) rivals an HDTV signal. You don't need a high-end computer either, I am running this on a Pentium III 800, 256 MB RAM, Soundblaster Live! digital out for sound, with just a GeForce II 64 MB video card. If you have a computer lying around with a DVD drive and a video card with DVI or VGA output and a TV with a DVI or VGA input, download the trial version of Power DVD 5 and give it a try- you may be as impressed as I was!!! |
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AL Sotello Unregistered guest | I have the Sony KF50WE610 and purchased the Samsung HD931 player to take advantage of the DVI connection to get that ultimate picture. Big mistake. As stated above the picture was very dark in night scenes to the point you can't see the characters faces! Star Wars II, perfect example, night scenes way to dark and then day time scenes were great. Adjusting the brightness and picture helped but to turn them all the way up is ridiculous! So I took this player back to Best Buy. I will have to wait for a Sony player with DVI outputs to go with my Sony LCD. (ANY ONE KNOW OF ANY NEWS ON THIS??) Very disappointing overall! I will have to be patient and wait for a better product to come out to take full advantage of the DVI connection of my SONY TV!!! |
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Anonymous | I could be wrong, but doesn't using DVI IN mean all processing is done before it arrives at the set. It would not surprise me that Sony's processing to deinterlace, scale, and/or perform 3:2 pull-down are superior in a $3000 product than a $300 Samsung DVD player. I heard, that if you have a digital set, not to bother worrying about upgrading to a progressive player unless it has Faroudja in it, as most of these digi-sets will do a similar or better job than a typical player. If that is true, it must be doubley so for DVI, no? |
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umr Unregistered guest | You might find this thread useful. It describes how to get the best picture quality out of your TV. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=331875 |
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New member Username: ChipriddPost Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 | Hello everyone, I just spoke with one of the actual DVD Engineers at Samsung and he informed me that the DVI output on the HD931 was mainly designed for computer monitors and they will not correctly reproduce a signal to HDTV's. He said the signal the DVI input on a HDTV looks for is not the same as the signal the DVI out on the HD931 is producing. This is the reason for the black level problem. The firmware upgrade will not help. This was to fix jitter problems with some players manufactured earlier in 2003. I run my HD931 interlaced through the component inputs and it looks great. I am also disappointed with the results of the DVI output on the player but to get a player in the $200-$250 range with a good Faroudja chipset is still a good deal. Hope this helps. |
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Computer Guy Unregistered guest | Sorry to break this to you Chip, but first, the engineers should consult with Samsung's marketing: "DVI is an interface to enable the digital transmission of video signals between various digital devices. Using a DVI, Samsung DVD-HD931 transmits a digital video signal and displays a vivid picture on a digital type TV having a DVI." Second, the Faroudja processing is only output to the DVI interface. If you have this DVD player hooked up through the component output, you are bypassing the internal processing by the internal DVD scaler and using the one on your TV. This would go back to one of the earlier posts that the internal scaler in the TV is probably better than the one in the DVD player... |
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MagnaDyne Unregistered guest | I have Samsungs 65" widescreen that has a DVI input in the back, and I just purchased the HD931. THEN I run across this thread. I have seen many reviews & comments that say it works great. I hope it is just because of the difference in brand names. My HD931 should be in today, so I will let you know how things go. |
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Phurboy Unregistered guest | Has anyone Heard of / or own the Momitsu V880 with the DVI connection? Is it worth getting? |
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MagnaDyne Unregistered guest | Wow! That looks like a nice player! I always think I have done a lot of research. Then I always find something better after I have made my decision. Why couldn't you say something a few days ago? ;) |
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EZTIGER Unregistered guest | Any idea folks... I just purched 61" DLP Samsung. To maximize picture quality, I bought Samsung DVD-HD931. However, to my disappointmrnt.. The picture appears very small in the center of the screen, properly 35" instead of 61". If I used WIDE mode, the picture was unacceptable distored horizontally. I called Samsung help desk but no help yet... They need answer from technical team. |