Connecting stereo integrated amp to reciever
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Bronze Member Username: JodavisToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 11 Registered: Apr-09 | Hello guys. I'm an owner of a pair of Cerwin Vega D9's and a Yamaha 7.1 A/V reciever. My current setup in order is; playstation 3 (source) to the Yamaha A/V receiver to the crappy 1000watt power amp to the D9's. My problem is that I'm not getting good bass response from the D9's. These birds sing in the highs and mids, but lack in the punch and big bass that reviewers say "rattles my windows". So I go to Youtube and type in D9's and this guy has the same speakers but his are pounding off his NAD integrated stereo amp. So I learned that obviously it's what you power speakers with that makes the bass! Since my heart is set on this NAD, my concern is that I don't want my A/V receiver to be a waste. So my questions are 1) Can I connect the integrated stereo amp to the preouts of my A/V receiver and THEN use a power amp off the NAD? Will I lose sound quality and bass this way? 2) Am I correct that bass power has to do with the type of equipment you have before amplification? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2793 Registered: Feb-07 | 1) I think you probably can, but it will make for messy, complicated system. Simpler is (and sounds) better. 2) Yes. |
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Bronze Member Username: JodavisToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 12 Registered: Apr-09 | So then David (or anyone who can answer), how about I add the NAD C372 stereo integrated amp to the receiver shown here: http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C372-Stereo-Integrated-Amplif ier and use this power amp off the NAD here: http://www.cerwinvega.com/amps1800.php Should I get enough bass response now? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2795 Registered: Feb-07 | Why bother with the CV amp? It's really a PA amp, meant to go loud, not sound good. The NAD integrated should be more than enough to drive your speakers and give you satisfactory bass results. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12906 Registered: Dec-04 | Source to NAD to speakers. Sell the rest. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13719 Registered: May-04 | . You have managed to get some bad information off the internet and YouTube. Yes, the quality of the equipment counts and the Yamaha coud be improved upon. But thinking a change in components alone is going to get you pounding, window shaking bass is unrealistic. Realize it is the room you are hearing more than any component or your speakers. Dimensions of the room dictate bass response and clarity from your speakers. Placement of your speakers within the room are what determine how effectively the room and speakers work together. While most speaker placement programs are not meant to arrive at pounding bass you need to spend some time working with the components you have to reach the best possible performance with those pieces before you start swapping out anything. Adding an integrated amplifier to a receiver is redundant. An integrated has the same pieces as far as a pre amp and power amp that are contained in your Yamaha so you would be wasting your money buying a pre amp section (in an integrated amplifier) that you wouldn't use. You need a straight power amplifier if you want to run this from your Yamaha. You can buy more wattage for the same amount of money in a power amp compared to an integrated amplifier. The amount of wattage is unimportant to sound quality. Just buy a good quality power amp if you want better sound than the Yamaha provides. "Better" sound still is typically not what is meant when someone describes "pounding, window shaking bass". I would suggest you head to a decent audio shop and ask them your questions. They should be able to provide a few demonstrations that will prove enlightening. . |
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Bronze Member Username: JodavisToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 13 Registered: Apr-09 | Ughhh. Room placement is such a big issue for me. If I want big bass, why don't I just throw in the JL Audio Fathom home subwoofer which pounds at 2,500wattsRMS? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13722 Registered: May-04 | . I don't know. Why not? I don't think you're getting this stuff, guy. Go talk to a dealer that sells decent stuff and not just big box crap. . |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12908 Registered: Dec-04 | Well, that is a possibility, but makes furthering your OP a little different, Julien. Go to a music shop and check out some of their pro stuff if all you want is volume and bass, man. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12909 Registered: Dec-04 | Or live in a civic all decked out and crusing the strip. Julien, I presently living with perfect strong bass in an awkard room. If you are wanting to spend that kind of JLAudio money, buy mine. Nice stereo pair of speakers. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13723 Registered: May-04 | . Your post about placement went by too fast. I sometimes think everyone knows the basics and sometimes they don't. So, are you certain the speakers are wired in phase? If the drivers are moving in opposition to each other the bass response will cancel in the room. Check the speaker wiring for correct phase. Do you know how to do that? . |
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Gold Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 1333 Registered: Nov-04 | Well you could always go back to building your million watt subwoofer. Buy a decent sub and get it over with. |
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Bronze Member Username: JodavisToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 14 Registered: Apr-09 | No, I don't know how to check speaker phase. How? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3379 Registered: May-05 | To check speaker phase, make sure your speaker wires are connected red to red and black to black. If one is off, the speakers will be out of phase, and bass frequencies will cancel each other out. While speakers are what produce bass, the amount and quality utlimately depends on the room. Speakers closer to corners usually increase bass, but may make it muddy and boomy. Speakers further out into the room may decrease it, but may tighten it up. Like everything else in life, there's a happy medium. Every speaker is different and every room is different. There's no one universal rule as to what works best. Its mostly trail and error IMO. There are scientific ways to get almost the best bass, but fine tuning it is where the trial end error comes in. Furnature also plays a role. Ever notice how much echo is in an empty room? Ever notice how sometimes its hard to hear a TV in some rooms without cranking the volume? All that is due to sound waves bouncing off things and being absorbed by other things. A sub is going to have placement and room issues as well. Its not like finding a place for an end table. Not to mention adjusting frequency level, volume levels,and so on. They're very had to integrate in music systems. The best thing you can do is play with placement. It won't cost more than a little time and energy. A better amp like an NAD amp may provide more real world power - most mass market companies inflate their power specs to absurd levels. The increased power will probably also be increased quality (not just quantity) power. An NAD amp will probably provide better control and grip of the speakers and clean things up a bit. The increased quality from the amp doesn't mean it'll sound any better in your room if everything isn't set up right. As far as what you saw on You Tube, don't put too much stock in that. There's no way to tell what it actually sounded like. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2797 Registered: Feb-07 | Good post Stu. NAD typically conservatively rates the output of their amplifiers, and not all watts are created equal. I'd take 50 watts of NAD over 300 watts of CV, Crown, et al. Any day. I'm not interested in losing my hearing. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13724 Registered: May-04 | . Whatever you are using for speker cable will be marked to differentiate one leg from the other - one side from the other on each individual left and right cable. Make sense? Look at your cables and identify the markings that say this is the "---" leg or the red leg, the leg with printing or the copper leg or whatever is there to make one side not the same as the other. Once you've determined which side of the cable has been marked or changed in some manner look at where that side is connected at both the receiver and the speaker ends. That marked leg should be on the same colored terminal at all points - a stripe (copper leg, red side of the cable, printed side, etc.) should be on the red terminal on both the receiver and the speaker. The other side should run to the black terminal at all locations. If you've managed to connect your speakers out of phase by reversing one connection point, change the cables so they all have the same side of the speaker cable running to the red terminal. Do this with the power shut down to your receiver. Once you are certain all the red terminals have the same side of the cable connected to them let us know if there was any improvement. . |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12913 Registered: Dec-04 | There is also a chance, albeit slim, that the speakers are out of phase internally. To test, use a 9v battery and apply it across the speaker leads, which have been disconnected from the receiver with the power off. Touching the leads across the battery, with verified wiring per JV above, the bass driver should extend outwards with a quick competion of the circuit. Try both sides. |
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