Archive through April 13, 2009
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 68 Registered: Jan-09 | Art - Did you compare the 9.1's to the Primus P152? If so, how did it fare? I think you said you liked it better than the beta 20 right? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9289 Registered: Feb-05 | I prefer the Diamonds to the 152's however not everyone would as the detail, clarity and open character of the 152's would definitely win some folks over. Yes I did prefer the 152's over the Beta 20's. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1937 Registered: Jun-05 | Change of plans the The brand new Swan M3 will be added to the competition,this looks like a really serious speaker its a 3-way with a 6'5 inch Kevlar bass driver,2 inch midrange dome,and a all new ribbon tweeter from Swan that wont be sold oem this is a monitor that retails for $2k so its a serious box.Because of that I opted for the Evo2 10's with their nearly 7 inch driver it will provide more balanced competition. So now im splitting this competition into 2 groups the 6.5 inch plus group will include the Swan M3,Swan D2.1SE,and Evo2 10.the 5 1/4 inch group will be the Swan M1.Diamond 9.1,and Diamond 8.1,ultimately all the performance parameters will be combined and they will be judged in their groups but they will be auditioned in the 2 groups 1st as we all should know the 5 1/4 inchers wont match the 6.5+ guys in the bass these 2 companies are not shy in the bass so im pretty sure it wont be any suprises atleast in bass depth.it should be fun wish some of you guys could come and bring some more speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2496 Registered: Oct-04 | I posted this over in the "Speaker Bargains!" thread, but I thought it'd get more attention here; STO Sound & Vision is selling the Wharfedale Diamond 9.0 for $99/pair. http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.storefront/49d7ab8c0120b0722740ac100341066f/Pro duct/View/2829&2D3 |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11994 Registered: Dec-04 | Why would you think that posting another line away would not garner the attention of the miriads of followers? Yeah, it's slow. Havn't heard too much about the 9.0's. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2497 Registered: Oct-04 | Neither have I, but what I have read is pretty good. The 9.0 remind me of the Mission M70 I owned for a little while, which were gems. It's really remarkable how many excellent sub-$100/pr. are on the market. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1938 Registered: Jun-05 | I'll have a pair of 9.0's this week their for my HT system they will go alongside the 9.1's for my rears and sides,they will be here with my Evo2 8's sorry could'nt get the 10's to partial to the 5 inchers.I cant wait to put the 9.0's into action,I will include them in the shootout to,and i fully expect them to do well,their speed and timing should be very impressive. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9329 Registered: Feb-05 | Meanwhile on another forum a friend has purchased the Primus 152's for $86 including shipping and couldn't be happier. He's considering the 9.0's. I've changed the position of the 9.1's in my office and just love the way they sound. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12008 Registered: Dec-04 | The only dealer feedback that I got was a guy selling 9.1's for 300$ in any finish. I had intended to get pricing for 1 or 5 sets for the Canuck boys, but not at that price. CM is rubbing off on me... |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2498 Registered: Oct-04 | It's just too hard for me to part with my hard earned $$$ when bargains like these are out there. Wharfedale Diamond 9.0, Beta 10, Beta 20, Primus P152, Primus P162 for less than $100/pr, less than $75/pr, or $50/pr, I saw a P152 sell for $16 and a Beta 20 sell for $21 the other night; who in their right mind can pass on deals like these? How the hell Harman does it, I have no idea? The chasm between entry-level & high-end sound has been bridged IMHO, it's just nonsensical for me to consider spending 10X or more, simply because I might have trivial grips about any of these speakers. Hopefully someday soon, when I am without debt, without a mortgage, when my future finances are secure, and when I have a truly dedicated space for my listening, then I'll be ready to plunk down some cash (or by that time, U.N. Carbon Credits) and move into some higher-end gear. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12010 Registered: Dec-04 | CM, you make me feel dumb for buying what I have...well, just kinda. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2499 Registered: Oct-04 | I hope not Nuck, your recent purchases are such, that they should retain there value in near perpetuity, and I doubt those Mani-2 are going anywhere for a long, long time! They are the sort of item you build a permanent system around. Seriously, I'm just trying to live within my own means; if I was flush with cash, I might invest in some Mc-Gear & a pair of Totems, but I'm not there...yet, and I'm off the plastic for good. I'm pretty certain McIntosh gear would have been a better investment than my 401K! |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 70 Registered: Jan-09 | Have any of you listened to the AV123 xLS Encores? They are on sale right now for $129 plus shipping. I got my 9.1's biwired with Canare 4S11 yesterday. I can tell a difference. It is more subtle but the soundstage seems larger and I can hear everything. Now I don't have the refined ear that most of you have or the gear for that matter but I am really liking these speakers. I have 30 hours on them and read where they continue to open up. But I also must admit that now that I'm really enjoying 2.0 sound that I have thought about checking out the EVO2 8, Primus 152 and xLS Encores. I have gotten the audiophile bug from you guys! Any thoughts on the xLS Encores? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2500 Registered: Oct-04 | The X-LS is an extremely well reviewed speaker, and that's a very good price, however, they are "B-Stock" and will most surely be blemished. Have you ruled out a pair of Beta 20 or P162? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2501 Registered: Oct-04 | This real-wood (and beautiful) Moho Satin is the only "A-Stock" X-LS I could find, even at $160 it's a real good deal. http://www.av123.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&p roduct_id=301&category_id=56&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37 |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 71 Registered: Jan-09 | No, I still have the Beta 20's but I am listening to the 9.1's right now. Why do you ask about the Beta 20's? Apparently the AV123 sale is based on the contents of each individual container arriving from the Brazilian manufacturer the use. Each container may have more of the same or different inventory and limited quanities. Here is the link to the sale ad I received in email. http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=40940 |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1939 Registered: Jun-05 | I had the original XL-S,very warm and musical very good with tubes,all Danny Richie's designs are u could listen to them for hours,the cabnet is tuned to 43htz,they play real deep for a budget monitor.I had them and Beta 20's at the same time the Beta 20's had more detail and better dynamics,although the XL-S were very very good with strings and piano's and warmth of voices the XL-S were more fun to listen to,the soundstage didnt have great height but very very good width and pretty good depth.They are very musical and with a capital M and sometimes their B-stock is as good as the non B-stock stuff,a very good budget design for the music lover as long as he isnt being to analytical,their not quite like the Diamond 9.1's where they dont quite have the timing and nowhere near the detail,soundstaging,and bass articulation they can very very loud without strain.On the plus side the new Encore's have a new tweeter thats supposed to be much better so detail,soundtstaging height,dynamics,and topend extenton could be better,most of the owners say they are still musical like the original but with more detail and a better soundstaging i havent heard them but i believe what I've heard about them.I know av123 isnt doing so well but this speaker will be a lot fun for a lot people,dont forget they play very deep bass to and they are real wood veneer with top build quality,highly recomended! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2502 Registered: Oct-04 | Mordecai, I'm having a hard time keeping up with what you have & what you want? Are you feeling shortchanged by any of your purchases? |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 72 Registered: Jan-09 | Chris - I have the Beta 20's and The Wharfedale 9.1's that I have been listening to in my 2.0 system and Acculine A2's across the front in my HT. No, I don't feel short changed by the 20's or the 9.1's. I really like them both. I've really never listened much to a 2.0 system much less a variety of speakers to really determine what I like. I clearly like the 9.1's a little better than the 20's which I still think for the money is an outstanding speaker. I plan to listen to them again for a while after the 9.1's. I'm considering buying a pair of P152's because they are cheap. I am thinking only about the EVO2 8's down the road. I will keep an eye for a used pair possibly. I'm just a beginner and enjoying the whole experience. Haven't you owned about ten different monitors? I think I can be content with the 20's or the 9.1's especially listening to the 9.1's biwired. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2503 Registered: Oct-04 | Yeah I've owned a boat-load of entry level monitors & mini-monitors. It took me a while to get a handle on what I liked. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1942 Registered: Jun-05 | Mordecai keep in mind the Evo2 8 retail for like $850 a pair at wildwestelectronics they are $719 a pair they are a substantial step up or 2 from all the other speakers we are talking about Mike at STO just has the hookup right now.Wharfedales distribution is back up and running so i dont expect to see their prices this low for very long.So if you got a chance to get the Evo2 8 get them they are the latest series from Wharfedale right now with tons of Opus parts in them,the Diamond 10 series will be out around September.The Evo2 8 and 10 compete with all the monitors on the market up to about $2k,even at Wharfedales retail prices their performance,parts,and build compete far above that.The Evo2 8 &10 compete with speakers like Paradigm S1,Ascend Sierra,Era D5,Totem Rainmakers,B&W C1,Quad 11L2 & 12L2,ACI Sapphire XL,Kef XQ 10 & 20,Pro Ac Tabbleite's,Spendor 5se,Swan D2.1SE & M1,and many other $1k to $2k monitors,which also means you will need better electronics to get them to sound stunning,if you dont have the best electronics the Diamond 9.1 will give you all you need,even the 9.1's excel with top notch equipment,budget gear just shows a glimpse of what they can do. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 73 Registered: Jan-09 | Thanks Tawaun. I don't have high end electronics. I'm using a HK AVR146. I agree for that price I should jump on them. How many watts per channel do I need to drive the EVO's? The 146 is probably 60 watts per channel in a 2.0 setup plus I using my digital out from my PC and playing lossess files. I considered buying the HK 3490 which is 120 watts per channel. Would the the 3490 work? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1943 Registered: Jun-05 | Art i see you mentioned the Epos esl 8's you must have read the What HIFI? review well dont listen to much to them,they like to pick favorites and have stuff in heavey rotation like most radio stations. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9335 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm aware of the foibles of all of the various publications TW. I read a couple of reviews both speak of similar issues with the ELS 8 and then there is the less than stellar behavior of the Creek crew relative to the M12i and other products. I wouldn't buy any new product from Creek at this point. A whole lot will have to change with that organization before I buy from them again. I think the the ELS 3 is still their last great product at this point. Just my opinion. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 74 Registered: Jan-09 | I'm a little confused. Tawaun indicates that I might need a more powerful receiver to drive the EVO8 2's. The 9.1 and the 8's have a nominal impedance of 6 ohms. What does this mean exactly? My HK AVR146 seems to drive the 9.1's with no problem but maybe it does and I'm not hearing the true potential of the speakers. It is rated at 80 watt per channel in a 2.0 setup. Do I need a receiver that can run a 6 ohm speaker? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1944 Registered: Jun-05 | Its not about quanity of power its about quality of power,source,cables ect.I would'nt really call HK quality power,its just starter gear,im not trying to be mean or anything just telling the truth.You have the 9.1's and sure they play of on your setup,but nowhere near their potential like a setup like me or Art has,dont worry its always only about speakers when you 1st get into 2 channel we've all been thru it and still go thru it. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1945 Registered: Jun-05 | Art TAS raved this month about ELS 8 in their CES show report,1 good thing they said Roy Hall bought up the remaining stock of ELS 3's they are gonna sell both until the stock of ESL 3's sell out.TAS really likes the ELS 8 though,i think their previews of speakers are pretty accurate. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9341 Registered: Feb-05 | Let me put it another way...I have no respect for the folks at Epos and Creek and the direction they are going. Poor customer service and mean spirited leadership. Their sound has lost it's way as is evidenced by the M series...just not my cup. Glad Roy bought up the 3's and I hope lot's of folks get 'em while they are around because they are a classic. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 75 Registered: Jan-09 | No offense taken. I started out to get a decent 2.0 setup. The fact that the Wharfdales are such great speakers at an affordable price tempted me to jump from the Beta 20's to the 9.1's. I didn't want to spend alot and still don't. Let me ask my question from earlier in a more direct manner. What do I need to properly run the 9.1's or even the Evo's? Is there a "budget" setup that I can move into without spending a $1000 dollars? I have decent speaker stands and I'm using Canare cables biwired. So, that leaves the receiver as the weak link. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1946 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah there is Mordecai,various Chinese brands they offer the most for the money,Nad,Cambridge,Rotel,Marantz,Emotiva are the 1;s that come to mind others might chime in the used market is a very good place to look,you have many options. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1947 Registered: Jun-05 | I agree with you Art,except for the Destiny series and the budget Music Hall stuff and turntables.the best small system I ever heard was with a pair of ELS 3's and a 5350 setup with a Scout turntable,stunning system.The M12.2's and the ESL 3's are their last good speakers although i never learned to love the 12.2's,thats a shame with a speaker company with such a heritage,if i run into a pair of ELS 3's for the low low i will get them. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9344 Registered: Feb-05 | Mordecai the NAD 326BEE (or 325BEE if you can find one...should be cheap) would work very well with the Wharfies. |
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Bronze Member Username: Biz_dancePost Number: 13 Registered: Apr-06 | Have you tried the 9.1's in your wife's system yet Art? Local dealer says he won't get the 326 until the end of the month. I'm looking out for a deal on a 325 in the mean time. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9348 Registered: Feb-05 | No and I won't be trying it there. Grandkids now live in town and that's where they hang out is in her office. I won't be dragging her amps out either. I know that my Creek 4330 works great with the 9.1's and the 325 is and feels like a more powerful amp than the Creek. Also a very neutral sounding amp. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 76 Registered: Jan-09 | Thanks Art. I will look into these mfg. I did look at the NAD 326 and 325. The problem is I need one with optical digital in from my PC. I have not looked at the other brands. It looks like I can get the 325 used for under $250. I can probably get $100 to $150 for my HK AVR. I really want to get the EVO2 8 so I will need to sell the 9.1's and the Beta's. I hate to let the 9.1's go but EVO2 8's are to good of a deal to pass up. I hate that I have to buy them before hearing them though. The guys at STO told me that I would hear a significant difference between the two. I doubt they will stay at the price for long. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 77 Registered: Jan-09 | STO raised the price of the Evo's to $359.00. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12020 Registered: Dec-04 | Wow, Mord. Not for long really means not for long, huh? |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 78 Registered: Jan-09 | Yeah really. I spoke to STO yesterday and told them of my interest and they didn't mention raising the price. I would have bought then. I guess $359 is still a great price. It doesn't look like any integrated amps have digital connections. This means I will have to convert from digital to analog if I want a NAD. I don't like messing with CD's. I much prefer to use my PC and uncompressed files. However, I'm intriqued that according to some here that I'm not hearing the true capabilities of the 9.1's. Maybe I will purchase and integrated amp first and connect by CD player to it so I can hear these speakers with quality sound. Why don't integrated amps have digital connections? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1948 Registered: Jun-05 | $359 is still over half of msrp,still a deal among deals,you gotta eat i dont blame him for raising the price,his is still by far the best and he takes trade ins you just flat cant beat that. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12023 Registered: Dec-04 | Mord, you use an external DAC for that conversion. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9355 Registered: Feb-05 | Mordecai I'm still amazed at what my 9.1's can do. Having made some adjustments in room placement has given me stunning sound quality. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 79 Registered: Jan-09 | Art - I truly love the 9.1's too. They are still opening up. I really impressed with the bass which seems to be getting richer each day. Of course I also biwired them with quality cable (Canare)which I'm sure is playing a role. I am only considering the EVO's because the price STO is selling them for is about half the street value (Wild West has them for $700 or so) and because everyone I've talked say they have the sound quality of $1k up speakers. I don't think I will ever justify spending $1k for speakers but to get that quality for less than half is intriquing. The problem is I need to get a DAC and integrated amp to enjoy their sound qualities. It also sounds like the 9.1's will benefit as well. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 80 Registered: Jan-09 | Would the HK 3490 improve the quality of my power? This has a digital in Or how about this? http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-M-282-2-Channel-Power-Amplifier/dp/B000069E2V If I buy a decent DAC and integrated amp I going to spend way more that I want right now. I can get the Onkyo amp fairly cheap right now at Shop Onkyo. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1949 Registered: Jun-05 | My 9.1's are even shapen up more than I thought they would,the bass i can feel.When i 1st got them my wife didnt complain,I listen a lot at night when the noise level outside goes down,2 days straight she has woke up,so it deffinetly gained in macro dynamics and topend extension,bass power is just flatout impressive,the soundstage is massive in height,width,and depth.The 9.1's are a flat out impressive speaker regardless of what they cost,amazing i can only imagine what the Evo2 8 will be like.The Swan M1 will be here tomorrow and the Evo2 8 & Diamond 9.0 will be here friday and the Swan D2.1 SE will be here sometime next week,I dont know when the Swan M3 will be here.Friday when the Evo2 8's and the 9.0's get here I'll take some preview pics and start running them in,and I'll start a new thread tommorrow since this is Arts thread. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2505 Registered: Oct-04 | Mordecai, the HK3490 is one of the most versatile receivers on the market. It can be had at J&R for under $300 (I've seen it for under $250). I'll go out on a limb and say 120WPC (plus a full 120WPC into a second "B" pair if desired) is more power than you'll need for the foreseeable future. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 82 Registered: Jan-09 | Thanks Chris. I am going to keep an eye for one. I am really curious to hear my speakers with a much better receiver. When I bought the Beta's and the HK AVR 146 I was just trying to replace computer speakers. I truly never imagined that I would really enjoy 2.0 sound enough to buy better equipment. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2506 Registered: Oct-04 | I bailed out on 5.1 a while back in favor of better 2.0 and haven't looked back. If & when I can set-up a real HT instead of trying to fit one in my living room, and spending $$$ on speakers I only use occasionally, I'll consider revisiting it. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 83 Registered: Jan-09 | I was sitting in my living room tonight thinking the same thing. I have to set my speakers up when I want to watch a movie. Unless it is an action movie I don't setup my surrounds. I think a 3.1 system is sufficient for me. My wife doesn't care for action movies so I only watch them when she is not around. I have the 2.0 system in my office/study. My HT speakers are Acculines and they sound terrific for movies and good for music. My living room is big and open has ten foot ceilings. Less then idea for quality sound. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1956 Registered: Jun-05 | I got my dad a full Aculline 7.2 setup he loves HT,I was gonna keep them for myself,but i knew they suited him well,and he loves the BG planer magnetic tweets.For myself for HT it will be all Diamonds because i love multi-channel music and im in love with their tone and timbre they will work perfect for movies to all i need is the center 1 pair of 9.0 and 2 sub 150's 1 pair of 9.0's will be here tomorrow and the very special 9.1's will anchor the front as the front mains. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9376 Registered: Feb-05 | Meanwhile I posted the small speaker survey on another forum along with impressions of the Primus 152's and so far a couple of pairs of the 152's have sold and the new owners are absolutely thrilled with them. What an impressive little speaker for chump change. One fella picked up a pair for about $80 with shipping incl. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1963 Registered: Jun-05 | Cant beat that Art,you can add the 9.0 to the cheap and chearful list to,im gonna have to get me another pair of 152's. |
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Bronze Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 97 Registered: Dec-06 | http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/120961-wharfdale_speakersdealers/ The only place I know that carried (and I assume still does) Wharfedale is Tabangi Electronics, in Mississauga and Vaughan. The guy in Vaughan is a little pushy in trying to make a sale, but from what I can tell from my two visits there he offers some pretty good deals. Never bit though, I prefer a more relaxed atmosphere. The Mississauga location seemed more that way, I was there one time. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1964 Registered: Jun-05 | Are you going back Dan to audition,and what particular Wharfedales does these dealers carry? |
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Bronze Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 98 Registered: Dec-06 | Well I did notice the Diamond 9 series at both locations, and listened to the 9.1 or 9.2 very briefly at the Mississauga store. But I don't plan on going back anytime soon, even though I think I mentioned earlier in this thread that I wanted to buy the 9.2. This audio game is funny, I go from one idea to another almost at the drop of a hat. I was almost positive I wanted to get the 9.2 maybe later this year, but then I considered that I had the Energy Connoisseur C-1, then bought the Tannoy Mercury F2. Those two are both $300ish. So why buy another speaker for the same price? It's just a lateral move, when I should be focused on making significant improvements. Why not move up in class? So that's where I am right now and I think I'll pass on the 9.2 and instead get something in the $800-$1,500 range. I'm planning to trade in the Energy and move the Tannoy to HT use, and replace that in my stereo with Quad or B&W 685. However, there is the chance I could trade in both the Tannoy and Energy and buy a set of 9.2s. I'd probably do it if the Wharfedales are a significant improvement over the Tannoy, considering it wouldn't really cost a lot to make that change. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9382 Registered: Feb-05 | Good thinking Dan...I've made too many lateral moves...think upward mobility. just don't forget that the bucks you spend don't really speak to which direction you are going. My move to the Unison Research Unico P from the Rega Mira 3 could be viewed as lateral as they cost about the same however the sound is light years different and the move was up...way up! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1965 Registered: Jun-05 | Dan thats why the Evo2 8 sould be what you should buy they are a sub $1k speaker that are selling for $359 a pair and they are a huge step up from any of the Diamonds you cant beat that anywhere for this kind of performance,really its unparralel at that price or since you like the 6.5's the Evo2 10 at $459. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9384 Registered: Feb-05 | As much as I like the Wharfies I would take a pass on another pair as the build quality is suspect at best. The new Paradigm Studio 20 v5 sure looks nice as does the Studio 10. Anything by DeVore Fidelity is fabulous as well. A used pair of Gibbon 3's would be wonderful. |
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Bronze Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 100 Registered: Dec-06 | Yeah Tawaun, I'd likely opt for the Evo2 10. I have to admit that the price is amazing, though you also have to factor in shipping to Canada and border taxes. Truth is that I wasn't planning on buying yet, maybe in the fall (hopefully the Cdn $ is higher then too). I've had my eyes on the Quad 11L or 12L, good prices on audiogon, so this is what I'd consider the Evo2 10 against. Or the 685s. I heard the 9.1 or 9.2, and also briefly heard the 685, and to me they weren't that dissimilar. But I could be wrong, my comparison was pretty loose (different stores on different days). But to me they both produce impressive bass, are smooth and a bit laid back but still have impressive dynamics. Never heard any Evo2 speaker. Ideally I could demo all of these together in one room with one amp/CDP, but unfortunately this isn't always possible. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2510 Registered: Oct-04 | ...I'm sticking by the Beta & Primus series, pound for pound, $ for $, the best speakers I've laid my ears upon. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1966 Registered: Jun-05 | Art,the Whardedale Diamond series maybe from time to time,but its a budget series and it crushes the competition in that catigory no budget series even comes close to their drivers.Now the Evo2 series is built to a whole different stratasphere,their website doesent really go into to detail about the drivers,well the owners manual breaks it down with every piece of imformation about each and every driver as good as I've ever seen on par with Scanspeak .All the drivers are matched within a 1.5 db tolerance every single drivers measurements are on file,thats super highend territory,i bet Paradigms Signiture series tolerance isnt that tight except for the Berruiliamn tweeter,and the Studio series forget about it,they wont get near that,the crossover on the Evo2's is sick,very very high quality parts and very simple its only 5 or 6 parts in the crossovers on the 2-ways.im not knocking Paradigm but they have terrible customer service,back when i had my Atoms i had to return 3 pairs from violent port chuffing,and come to find out all of them done it,and its never changed in any of their generations,my Monitor 5's tweeter went out twice,for Paradigms quality and controls was the worst I've ever witnessed,the only thing i would ever buy from Paradigm is the Signitures,and even then i'd choose a Opus2 much better build qaulity cheaper and a better speaker in my opinion.I like the Devore,but for that kind of money i would have to have a speaker that measures alot better than do,they measure horrible lok at the Silverback review in Stereophile and thats their flagship,if it measured that badly the cheaper stuff s probably worst than that,I'll put the Evo2 series or the Opus series up against them any day of the week. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9386 Registered: Feb-05 | TW I know you like to speak in absolutes but I want to clarify something from my perspective. I liked the Diamond 9.1 a hair better than the ELS 3...just a hair. It did not crush it in any sense of the word, nor did it crush the Primus 152. These are all fine budget speakers. The Atoms have always been suspect with build quality however I was not afraid to buy because I have a local dealer I trust and who I know will make it right. The last time I bought Atoms I had to return the first pair, same with the Epos ELS3, however with the Wharfies all 3 pair I've had came with a problem with fit and finish as well as drivers. Fortunately Mike at STO did right by me. Relative to customer service I'll admit that Paradigms isn't good however the same could be said of many, and the worst I've experienced has been from the Creek clan. So as I said I like the Wharfedale sound as well as the Paradigm sound, relative to their Studio's and Sigs. The DeVore sound is fantastic...I listen with my ears not a graph, so I'm confident that the 9's I heard were one of the best sounding speakers I've listened to, didn't hurt that they were on the business end of a Mastersound amp. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 86 Registered: Jan-09 | Chris - Now that I've listened to the 9.1's for a while I'm going to switch back to the 20's for a while to see if I can tell a real difference between the two. I am really enjoying the 9.1's but I was enjoying the 20's as well. I am still interested in the EVOs 8's but I think I can be satisfied with either as long as I quit reading this all these speaker comparisons and opinions!  |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1968 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah,i do speak in absolutes,everyone tries to act like absolutes dont exist in audio but they do.I've owned the Epos els3 i would say the 9.1 is more than a hair better,they have just as much detail and better timbre they just sound bigger,the 9.0 sounds bigger than the els3 and the Primus 150/152.I didnt say the Devore's dont sound good,they do they have that tmbre talent which is lacking in a lot of todays speakers,measurements are important,but not everything,they tell you mostly everything but not all things.Sorry Art I know you love Paradigm but their prices has risin and their build is very suspect,I've always liked the Studio 20,in my opinion their most consistant speaker,but none of their speakers justify their prices with their recent pricing except for 2,the Studio 20 is still a ok bargain,the S8 used to be a good bargain at 6k but 8k no way,the S1 is 1 hell of a speaker and its priced right and its their best technology very good speaker right there. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9387 Registered: Feb-05 | Yeah Paradigm has gone into the stratosphere with their prices... |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2511 Registered: Oct-04 | Mordecai, I'm looking forward to your comparison. In addition to the EVO2-8, I'd look at the Monitor Audio Bronze BR2 to see how well you can do in the sub-$400 range. http://www.brandtoyz.com/p-2579-monitor-audio-bronze-br2.aspx |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1969 Registered: Jun-05 | Chris why would tell him to look at the Bronze? its the Diamonds competitor its not even in the Evo2's league or class,you need at least silver's RS1 which will come up a little short,the GR10 would be a good match up for the Evo2 8 & 10,the 9.1's will romp the Bronze's.I owned the last generarion Bronze 2,pretty good speaker,the new Bronze's dont sound as good as the old generation. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2512 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm of the position that Monitor Audio's entire line is exceptional. The new Bronze series has received it's share of positive, even glowing, reviews. MA has really got the aesthetics down pat too, IMHO. http://goodsound.com/equipment/monitor_audio_bronze_br2.htm |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1970 Registered: Jun-05 | Chris the Silver,Gold,and Platnium series are exceptional,the Bronze is about midpack with the budget speakers,which isnt very good i dont know what happened to the Bronze series they just dont sound very good,they used to be good,I was very very underwelmed to say the least.And believe me dont believe the pictures they look cheap,the last generation had very good build quality |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2514 Registered: Oct-04 | I trust that's the way you feel T, but those are the first negative words I've seen about the new Bronze series. What looks cheap about them? How else were they deficient in your opinion? |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 87 Registered: Jan-09 | Well I made some adjustments with speaker placement and receiver settings and what a difference it makes to the sound quality of the speakers. I'm sure the 20's will sound better also with the new receiver settings. I realized that I had the speakers set to small and I changed to large and immediately noticed improvement in bass response which also seemed to enlarge the sound stage. Placement improved the imaging. I plan to swap the speakers a little later. All my grandkids are here right now for Easter and once the leave I will hookup the 20's to see if I notice a difference. Where is the best place to sell speakers? I'm trying to decide if I even want to sell the 20's if they loose the shootout because they are still selling on Ebay right now. Besides, I'm thinking I may give them to my daughter for a house warming gift. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 89 Registered: Jan-09 | Okay, I have the 20's hooked up using the same speaker wire and equipment. My first impression is that the 20's sound larger than 9.1's. But, I don't think my little AVR has enough power to drive the 9.1's appropriately). I can agree with everything Art said about both speakers. If I had not listened to the 9.1's I could be very satisfied with the 20's. That said, the 9.1's tweeter is better in terms of articulation and is more delicate which does provide for better instrument definition. I don't hear the unrealistic instrument issue Art mentions but again I don't have high end equipment either. So, I've decided this week to have a mini standmount shootout. My wife leaves town Wednesday allowing me the freedom to use my Onkyo 705. This will allow me to have a better feel of what the 9.1's will sound like with more power(100 watts per channel for 8ohm in a two channel setup). I will include my Acculine A2's in the mix. I have 12 gauge wire I will be using along with jumpers for the 9.1's and A2's. I will use my Blu Ray player for CD and My Ipod lined out to the receiver (all lossless files). I'm not sure which reference music I will use yet although I will listen to film scores and acoustic and mix in a little pop. This will give me the best comparsion in a side by side environment. I wish I had a pair of P152's to add into the mix but it looks like Harmon Audio has run out of them or just hasn't listed any lately on Ebay. I would really like to compare them to the Beta 20's. |
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Bronze Member Username: Biz_dancePost Number: 14 Registered: Apr-06 | I ordered Chinese last night. I found a good deal on a dealer demo Qinpu A-1.0x so I decided to take a chance on it. I should be able to recover the cost if I don't like it. Anybody here demo this amp? It should arrive next week. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9404 Registered: Feb-05 | Congrats...looking forward to your impressions. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2421 Registered: Jun-07 | TW-Chris-Art --- The Paradigm prices have not gone up in Canada. I hear they went up 30 percent in the US. That sucks. Was just in my dealers this weekend dropping off the Projector(Upgrading) and listened to some new MA Bronze series speakers head to head against the latest Paradigm monitor and studio series, on a pair of Cambridge Audio 740 amp and cdp. The Monitor audio Bronze needed more power than anything Paradigm had to even the same volume but everything the Monitor Audio Bronze series speaker did was much better, musically, than the Paradigm monitor series. I would say the Bronze competed against the Studio series but would still put the Paradigm Studio series above the Bronze. Overall I thought the Bronze hasn't changed all that much in sound. I still feel its an insane value. I still love the Studio 20's as well, and they are sexier than ever, however I think the build quality of the new Studio series is worse than before. Woofers feel cheaper, and everything feels very "plastic" like. I can have the Signature 8's for far less than 8 grand too. More like 5500 or so. Yes, the SIG 8's are amazing. I heard the whole brand new Studio line from the 10's right up to the 100's and they are fantastic for the money. Cheers. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9406 Registered: Feb-05 | Were you looking at the new v5 Studio 20's with the curved cabinet and wood veneer? How was it? |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2422 Registered: Jun-07 | Yup I sure was. The whole line of V5 Studio series has a new look. Curved tops, more narrow but beefier looking at the same time (if that makes sense). I got to hear the Studio 100's and big center in a HT setup which was great, and heard the Studio 20's, 10's and 60's side by side in a music setup using the Cambridge stuff and a Nakamichi speaker switcher. The Studio 20's are fantastic Art. To touch, they do feel a wee bit cheaper (although my dealer disagree's with me) but whatever, they sound better then they ever have, which is what counts. For music they did well, but in a theater setting they were superb. To my ears they could use a little more midrange detail, but this could be due to the neutrality of the speaker. The sound I would say is "smooth". Super easy to power too. Went very loud with even the lightweight 640 Cambridge amp. The Cambridge sound was O K. But I would have to spend more time with it, and listen to more speakers on it to fully appreciate the sound is provides. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9409 Registered: Feb-05 | Very interesting...thanks for the reply Nick. I have my heart set on DeVore Fidelity or Living Voice at this point and that's quite sometime out, by which time I will have changed my mind at least 10 times...lol! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2515 Registered: Oct-04 | I was VERY disappointed with the Studio 20v.4 vs. the v.3. I'm looking forward to hearing the v.5. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2423 Registered: Jun-07 | lol Art- I would think Devore Fidelity would hand the Paradigms a beating musically. Chris- I agree, the V3's were definitely better than the V4's. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2516 Registered: Oct-04 | How do suppose a an industry leader like Paradigm goes from designing a speaker like the excellent Studio 20 v.3 to the lackluster v.4, or the really crappy new Monitor series? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9411 Registered: Feb-05 | Trust me I've listened to both the 8's and the 9's and they pretty much do hand the comparably priced Paradigms a beat down. Paradigm is trying to be too many things to too many people and failing to be anything to anyone...too bad. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2424 Registered: Jun-07 | Chris/Art- Yeah, they really cut back in production with the V4 series, and tried too hard to compete with Klipsch and the horn crap. With the V4 series you could really see just by looking at the speaker that they had put less money into each speaker. I believe they are changing that though, as quickly as possible. The newer style Monitor Series started with the V5's which were a disaster and was quickly replaced with the V6 and now I believe even a V7 coming shortly. Paradigm realized they FU#$ked up big time with the V4 Studio and V5 Monitor and replaced them both quicker then you could say Paradigm. The Paradigm monitor series speaker has never, ever been a good speaker musically, but a great buy for what they were intended for mainly, and that is Theater applications that dont cost you and arm and a leg. The latest Monitor V6 series is much better up and down the scale then the 9 month old V5's are, they kept a few models roughly the same (atoms) but considerably improved the Mini Monitors ,7,9,11's. Would I use them for for a two channel system? Hell no, but for a home theater speaker package under 3000 they are super hard to top. The good news is, that it does appear Paradigm are getting back on track, as they took a huge **s h i t *** the last year or so. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9412 Registered: Feb-05 | It's a wait and see for me Nick. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1972 Registered: Jun-05 | The Studio's build quality hasnt been good since the V1 & V2 those 2 gens offered very good build,and at the time they were out they played with the big boys and to me went head to to head with B&W Nautilus 802 wich was 3 times their price.The Studio 20 was a stud back then to,in fact thats the era where it build its legacy as a giant killer,the whole Studio line was very good,Monitor 9 and Mini Monitor were very good back then.Something is going on up top with Paradigm,for a company that prided themselves on offering bang for the buck in all their lines,they have lost ground PSB and a few others have them out of the top spot in Canada,I've never seen a big speaker company constantly regress over a decade period like paradigm has,their very lucky they have the Signiture line. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9413 Registered: Feb-05 | Actually I think that the v3 Studio 20 was as well built as the first two and I had all three at one time or another. They went downhill with the v4. I hope they pull it together however I ain't holdind my breath as I've moved on. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2425 Registered: Jun-07 | I feel the V3 was well built like Art stated, but your right Tawaun, paradigm quality went for a crap. Its a close call for me with PSB and Paradigm. Give or take on certain model versions. I would take the Sigs over anything PSB make though. Every hi fi company at that level goes through a lull, weather its marketing problems or money, or just piss poor management. It happened to Rotel in the early to mid 90's, it happened to Onkyo mid to late 90's, only for them to come back stronger than ever (Onkyo has taken the AVR market by storm) Maybe Paradigm will come back, I hope so. Maybe they are heading to mass market stores like Infinity and JBL did with their Monitor series, and focusing more on the Signature line. Who knows, for me, like Art, its a waiting game. But really, I could care less. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3248 Registered: May-05 | Infinity and JBL didn't go mass market per se, the names were bought and Harmon made the names mass market. Basically its the same thing that happened to Marantz. The original people behind it had nothing to do with it after it was sold the first time. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1973 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah,i agree the V3 was still good,a different sound from the V1 & V2,not quite as majestic maybe a bit more precise I guess i favored the Majestity,but the Studio 20's have always been good,I've heard these stories from various people around the forums about the V4 not being as good I heard it and thought it sounded good i didnt pay attention to the build quality.PSB is better than Paradigm in all the lower lines,its at the top where the Sigs pull away,which seems where Paradigms loyalties lie these days,its like their ignoring the lines that built the company,value and performance,but that S1v2 is a awsome little speaker,its among the best speakers you can buy at that price,i would strongly consider buying them at their price point they may the best there,I just love those phonominal build quality,theres the evidence that Paradigm knows how to build a top notch speaker with 1st rate fit & finsh and great sound. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2517 Registered: Oct-04 | Art, so would you say I wasn't entirely off-base when I went on the record with my preference for the Beta 20 over the Studio 20v.4? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12058 Registered: Dec-04 | Sig1 v2 over the Totem Mani-2's? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9414 Registered: Feb-05 | Not sure about the v4 as I had very little experience with them. The Studio 20v3 is light years better than the Beta 20. Not even close. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2426 Registered: Jun-07 | TW- I fully agree with your post. Stu- Perhaps that was a bad example, I guess you can say that I hope paradigm doesnt go the route Harmon did when they bought those companies. Chris - No way man.LOL. I havnt heard the Beta 20's in a proper setup though, so I can't comment really. Art is the man on that one for sure. As he has experience with all the Studio 20 except the V5's and of course the Beta 20's. Nuck- ohhhhhh that would be fun. Totally two different types of speaker. I have no idea on that one. The Totem speakers are just freaky cool. TW? |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2427 Registered: Jun-07 | oopps Art already answered. I dont think the V4's were T H A T much worse than the V3's to justify the difference compared to the Beta 20's. Yes the V4's were worse, but not by a huge margin at all. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1975 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah for me Nuck,the Mani-2's are just too too much of a demanding load,i dont want my speaker picking my amp,i like to pick my own amp,based on sound quality not how much power it has and has to have for the Mani-2.Dont get me Wrong the Mani-2's are great no doubt,but most people will never get them to sound to their full potential.On another note the Sig 1v2 has the better tweeter,but we are talking 2 different price points the Mani-2 is nearly 3 times the price of the Sig1 V2 in the US,so you really would wanna compare it to $4k and up Standmounts at $4k Monitors and Standmounts are statement level performers where is a floorstander would be at the $20k mark.Competition i can thinks of would be the Usher Be-718,Kef Reference 201/2,Monitor Audio Platinum 100,Dynaudio Confidence C1,The new Devore XL's,Harbeth Compact 7,Pro Ac Response D2,and my Favorite the Wharfdale Opus2 2 with the stands for under $3k,and many others,with the right power the Mani-2's can compete with any Standmounter as can all of these. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2518 Registered: Oct-04 | Yeah, I really loved the Studio 20v.3 too, the v.4...eh, not so much, I remember the disappointment after leaving the dealer. I remain optimistic about the v.5. I'd put those Mani-2 sigs up against ANY bookshelf on the market, I love them. Has anyone heard the Monitor Audio RS-1, GS10, or PL100? Any comments? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1976 Registered: Jun-05 | The Beta 20's are a fine bargain,but they are not Close to any generation of the Studio 20's. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12059 Registered: Dec-04 | Whew, I am lucky that I already had the setup. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2519 Registered: Oct-04 | Maybe I'd be convinced otherwise in a side-by-side audition. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1977 Registered: Jun-05 | Chris i owned the last generation RS1 which was called the Silver 1,they were great,but at the time i didnt have the source or the amps so i traded them in on the Nad C521 CDP and a pair of Bronze 2's and i traded a pair of B&W 602S2 for a Nad 320bbee.I have heard the GS10 and the Platnium 100 both are awsome,for the money the GS10 is pretty special at the Pl100's price i dont prefer their tonal balance,but there's no doubt about their level of detail that rivals the best Standmounts at any price for me it came down to them being a bit lean in the lower midrange and they were to foward for me in the upper midrange and topend,but they will have many followers,you cant disregard their level detail,tranparency,speed,and resolution which is phonominal to say the least.After hearing the RS6 i would say the RS1 should be a beast at its price point,their are others who have heard them on here that might chime in,i dont like to speculate about how something should sound,but it should be a pretty safe bet with them. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2520 Registered: Oct-04 | I've heard the RS6, RS8 & the older GR10, but not the newer GS10. |
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