Rotel or equal upgrade?
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New member Username: EzntnTN Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-09 | I've an old (5 yrs) Rotel RSX 1065 HT receiver. As always, "next week they come out with a new model." Perhaps not the next week, but advances such as HDMI make me wonder, would it be worthwhile to upgrade to a newer Rotel or equal that provides the HDMI switching, with a single HDMI cable out to the HDTV? I owned a Carver 200 watt 2 channel with Holographic sound processing prior to upgrading. SQ wise, I cannot complain at all about the performance of either. Just wonder if it would be worth my while? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13544 Registered: May-04 | . HDMI, eh? How much would you be spending to eliminate how many cables? . |
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New member Username: EzntnTN Post Number: 2 Registered: Apr-09 | Based on that argument, as long as music or audio emanates from the speakers without sounding similar to a mad box of rice krispies, there's not much justification in upgrading. You don't think there's been enough upgrade in technology beyond HDMI incorporation into processors to justify consideration? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13545 Registered: May-04 | . Like what? Do you have something in mind? I mean we are talking about a receiver, so are we talking new fake surround fields or what? . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13546 Registered: May-04 | . https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/563289.html |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2485 Registered: Feb-07 | "as long as music or audio emanates from the speakers without sounding similar to a mad box of rice krispies" LOL, that's kinda funny Bryan. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2486 Registered: Feb-07 | Are you happy with the receiver? Do you have or plan on getting a Blu-ray player? If so, does the receiver have analogue inputs? If it does, in my opinion there's no need to upgrade. |
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New member Username: EzntnTN Post Number: 3 Registered: Apr-09 | Sound quality is awesome, and sufficient power to drive my Paradigm 100 Series system. BluRay is an adequate Sony model, Coax into the amp for audio, HDMI into the back of the TV. Reckon what I'm fishing for, is there something to be gained from upgrading to a HT receiver that incorporates HDMI switching, multiple HDMI in, single HDMI out to the HDTV? Its my impression there's plenty to be gained from either satellite, hi def cable, or BluRay via single cable into a reciever then that signal processed to speakers and video thru a common unit. I've done the power battle, I'm content with power output of the Rotel. IMHO .. its the quality of power delivered to quality speakers that makes the difference. I'm not looking of dB's .. but improved operation. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13548 Registered: May-04 | . The technical specifications are improved on the latest generation of HDMI. However, for the improvement you will see I would tell you to buy a better AC line conditioner instead. Run your HDMI directly to the TV monitor and forgo the receiver's electronics. Unless there is something very special about the signal processing of the Rotel, the fewer the connection points, the better for the signal. . |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2488 Registered: Feb-07 | I agree with Jan. Video signals have no business going through your receiver, IMO. Also, I like to use the analogue inputs for audio. In other words, keep video and audio separate. |
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New member Username: EzntnTN Post Number: 4 Registered: Apr-09 | Thanx for the input If it ain't broke, don't fix it usually manages to conserve $$. I've a Monster Cable Surge Suppressor, might be time to look at something that does clean up the signal a bit more. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2490 Registered: Feb-07 | The RSX 1065 is a pretty serious piece of gear. If it's working fine, I'd hang on to it. Do you have a Blu-ray player now Bryan? |
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New member Username: EzntnTN Post Number: 5 Registered: Apr-09 | Sony DP S-350 Video straight into the back of a Mitsu Diamond Series DLP HDTV via HDMI. Coax audio into the receiver. I've considered optical out into the receiver, jury's still out. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1883 Registered: May-06 | If you have the $$$ check into a PS Audio Quintet to filter both power and cable feeds. Otherwise the PS Audio Duet will handle your power conditioning at an amazing bang for the buck. I had the Duet replace a Monster AVS 2000 with a Monster HTS 5100 plugged into it. Then I went to completely dedicated lines and no longer needed the Duet either. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2450 Registered: Jun-07 | Panamax all the way for a line filter. Or a big piece of Richard Gray if money permits.lol. I have experience with the PS Audio ones but hear they are great as well. The 1065 is a very nice AVR. I believe it also has 5.7/7.1 analog ins on the back. What I have for my blu ray player is similar to you Bryan. I am running HDMI straight to my Sony Projector, then a coax cable to the NAD pre amp, and also 6 RCA ends from the Analog out on the Blu Ray to the NAD's analog In's. So then I can use both depending on which kind of Audio I am using from the DVD/Blu Ray movie. I agree with Jan and David and the rest, Im not a huge believer of running any video through an AVR. Also, if you havnt done the latest firmware update on the 350, make sure you do so. This will make sure the blu ray player decodes all the latest sound formats. |
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Silver Member Username: LamcamOrange County, CA USA Post Number: 165 Registered: Nov-07 | How about DDHD and DTSHD? I have heard they are very good.. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3271 Registered: May-05 | I think the true intent of HDMI inputs on an AVR is for switching (if you only have 1 HDMI on your TV but need a few more), video upscaling (if your DVD/Blu Ray player doesn't do it), and/or simplifying connections (only 1 cable is needed). I don't think its intent was ever supposed to be a superior quality connection. Marketers may let you think that however. They've also been slick by implying that the only connection that can carry an HD signal is HDMI. That's untrue. My take is try the different connections and use the best one to your eyes and ears. If HDMI going through your AVR looks and sounds better, use it. But its most likely not solely due to it being HDMI. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2491 Registered: Feb-07 | That's true Stu. I actually used to get better picture quality from my HD cable box using a component cable rather than HDMI. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 751 Registered: Jun-08 | Bryan, You are not getting the real sound of Blu-Ray if you're using COAX or OPT. into the receiver. The DTS-MA and Dolby True HD can only be passed to your receiver by using a full set of analogue output from your Blu-Ray into the receiver (that's 5 + 1 cables) OR in my opinion, much simpler and cost effective, one single high-quality HDMI connection from your Blu-Ray to the receiver. If you're using COAX / OPT. you are not getting the bit-for-bit studio soundtrack which makes ABSOLUTELY all the difference in Blu-ray. So simply, if you don't have the analogue 5.1 outputs on the DVD and AVR, it would be worthwhile looking into an HDMI receiver. My suggestion...look at ONKYO with their new 9.1, yes that's right 9.1, there's now a front Dolby z-channel which are height speakers in front and only Onkyo's got it so far...another first for them. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2492 Registered: Feb-07 | 9.1 George? Where the hell am I gonna put all the speakers? I barely have room for 5.1 in my living room! |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2493 Registered: Feb-07 | I'll see your 9.1 and raise you an 11.1. http://www.4electronicwarehouse.com/products/yamaha/rx-z11-receiver.html |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3272 Registered: May-05 | Are any movies even mastered in 7.1 yet, let alone 9.1 or 11.1? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2494 Registered: Feb-07 | Probably not. I guess it's up to the processor in the receiver to mish-mash the signal into 9.1/11.1. With dubious results. |
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New member Username: EzntnTN Post Number: 6 Registered: Apr-09 | Power conditioning Analog 5.1 9.1 or 11.1 Whoa !!!! Great to see so many different options & opinions Like I used to tell students, there's more than one way to get to Smackover from here. My Sony BDP S-350 offers Stereo out - not an option. It also offers HDMI, Coax & Optical. As audio is half the experience, and all but HDMI are compromised, that indicates if SQ is an issue, upgrade would be an option. But really, how much am I loosing of the sound experience? Reckon it might be time to go up, audition the Rotel 1550. I'm content with 5.1, don't see the practicality of additional surround speakers, not to mention windows and doors would interfere in their ideal placement. Never hurts to listen, and Mr Toad's is more than happy to oblige. David, Stu .. When I first got the Mitsu DLP, my cable box was HiDef but not HDMI endowed. Even HiDef channels came in 4:3 ratio. No amount of tweaking seemed get them up to the 13:9. Using a HiDef box with HDMI out to the TV provides that ideal 13:9 aspect ratio. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2495 Registered: Feb-07 | I agree with you on the 5.1 thing Bryan. My HT system is 5.1 and is more than adequate, and when watching Blu-rays using the direct-outs on the BDP, the sound is actually quite stunning. 4.3 certainly sucks for HD. I guess it all comes down to the design of the cable box. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3275 Registered: May-05 | Wasn't the FCC supposed to mandate that all TV broadcasts were to be in HD by '07? So much for that. Weren't all stations supposed to switch to digital by Feb '09? Now the commercials say this June. My question is who the hell still uses rabbit ears antennas anymore? My 87 year old grandmother has a DVR. Taking the FCC's time standars into consideration, I'm willing to bet every broadcast will be required to be in HD 2050, and by that time Blu-Ray quality picture will be comparable to what black & white is today. Also, I'm still waiting for my flying car and jet pack too. They're 9 years over due  . |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1888 Registered: May-06 | 5.1 7.1 9.1 11.1 I get my best sound quality from 2.0.  Nick, Panamax whatever cannot do for your signal what PS Audio does in my experience. However Panamax trumps Monster, also in my experience. YMMV. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2451 Registered: Jun-07 | Yup, Monster blows. I will have a look into the PS Audio stuff, looks good. Richard Gray has been the best I have had experience with just crazy expensive. 9.1? How will 9.1 work if 7.1 didnt.lol. 5.1 is all that is needed. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 753 Registered: Jun-08 | Guys, I haven't heard it but just read about it. All I do know is that it's a new Dolby processing format that Onkyo is incorporating into it's new receivers. It seems to make sense, in terms of the height perspective and blind testing results did show that that listeners found the introduction of the front height channels (z-channel) a significant improvement over just rear channels alone. There are supposed to be dramatic differences when it comes to soundtracks that include rain, fly overs etc. For the gamers. There will be games written including the Dolby z height channel. I believe there are a couple out already. A helicopter descending will actually sound like it's coming from above you and down. Let's not mix up 2-channel music listening with the home theatre experience. I think primarily the advantages will be for gaming and secondary for movies that have emersive surround soundtracks. Stu: there are some sountracks in 7.1 out right now but they are rare. Here's the link to Dolby's site (shows the placement and describes the new format): http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic-IIz.html Oh, on the use of analogue hookups vs. HDMI in a HT setup. I would say that it depends on the quality of the D/A converters in your Blu-Ray vs. your Processor / AVR. If your Blu-Ray player has a better D/A converter than your Processor / AVR then use the analogue hookup. However, if you are using Processor or AVR that has a better D/A than your Blu-Ray, use a high-quality HDMI cable and you'll be better off - for sure. It would be same comparision to using a CD player with analogue output or using a CD transport where you've got a high qualtiy D/A converter in your Pre/Pro. Dave - have you considered whether your Blu-Ray actually has a better D/A converter than your Pre/Pro? I think that's defintely worth considering. You may want to experiment with a high-quality HDMI cable...possibly from Blue Jeans and see where that gets you. Cheers, G |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2497 Registered: Feb-07 | My CA receiver doesn't decode TrueHD or DTS-HD, so I'm forced to use the decoders on my BDP. It actually sounds really, really good. Depending on the movie, of course. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2452 Registered: Jun-07 | "A helicopter descending will actually sound like it's coming from above you and down" Mine already does this with just 5.1.lol. Same as me Dave. I have the very first Sony blu ray player BDP-S1 with the good ol brush aluminum.lol. It decodes it just fine. Plus the NAD doesnt have the HD formats. Oh well. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 754 Registered: Jun-08 | Dave/Nick - you don't need the AVR to have the ability to decode the formats i.e. Dolby True HD and DTS-MA. All you need to do is tell your Blu-Ray to decode the format and send it in PCM multi-channel format via HDMI. The receiver will pick up the five independent decoded channels and output them accordingly. Therefore, you will have the Blu-Ray player decode the new format but send the multi-channel signal digitally rather than via analogue. Thus, turning your Blue-Ray into a transport and your AVR can do the D/A conversion. I'm not doubting it sounds great already but the quest in audio is to get it sounding better and both of you might have some potential here. Frank - you there, can you chime in on this? |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2454 Registered: Jun-07 | I dont have HDMI on my NAD either. Yes, I know this. Trust me, I have it hooked up at the best it could possibly be.lol. My next AVR will obviously have HDMI, but probably wont buy one until my two crap out. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12174 Registered: Dec-04 | 3...2...1 |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1890 Registered: May-06 | Play "Whole Lotta Love" by Led Zeppelin and then explain to me why anyone would need this new Dolby format. Fly overs? Try this one out. The imaging and spacing I get on this could not be defeated by any odd numerical dot one. By the way, I am listening to this on 2.0, for what its worth. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2458 Registered: Jun-07 | No doubt a good 2.0 system does things that a 5.1 system cant. Music being the main thing. lol. A good 5.1 system cant be topped for that movie experience though. How about some Iron Man on Blu Ray? Hold on to your seat.weeeeeee. By the way, I love whole lotta love. mmmMMM Led Zeppelin makes my junk move.lol |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2499 Registered: Feb-07 | Iron Man sounded awesome on Blu-ray. The TrueHD audio track sounded even better at home than the audio when I saw it in the movie theatre. Then again, my sound system is probably better than the movie theatre's ;-) |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2459 Registered: Jun-07 | lol I hear ya David. Its crazy good. That part where he shoots the rocket at the tank. Wah!!! Almost blows me off my couch. The theater sucks. Especially now that I have a screen size to match. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2501 Registered: Feb-07 | LOL. No need to go to the theater anymore Nick. I actually prefer to watch a movie at home. My couch is more comfortable, I can put the movie on pause if I need to take a whiz, and... one word: BEER. Can't drink beer in the theater. Well, you can, but it's problematic. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2460 Registered: Jun-07 | LOL I can name a few other things you can do at home on your own theater but their pretty vulgar.LOL!!! Beer, Scotch, Whiskey mmmmMMm Where my subwoofer is now it feels like there is a seat kicker in my couch. You dont get that in the theater.lol. Pictures to come this weekend or next week. Getting my new Projo on Saturday(other one died in one month) friggin Sony.lol Gears of War 2 on 106 inched of pure pleasure. When I watch any movie on my two channel system I want to hit my wife in public like a dirty hooker ( LOL joking, my wife can totally beat the crap out of me) there is just something missing. 5.1 for movies, 2.0 for music boys. Don't be scared. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 755 Registered: Jun-08 | Yup. No way 2.0 or 2.1 for that matter would cut it for movies. I'd still be going to the movie theatre if that were the case. Mike...if you love movies, you can't get by with 2.0. Now for music...I love my 2.0 and haven't heard a 5.1 soundtrack that would change that....yet. Blu-Ray Dolby True HD 5.1 soundtracks are starting to get released and they have the potential to beat out any SACD. |
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New member Username: EzntnTN Post Number: 7 Registered: Apr-09 | Roger Waters - In the Flesh Live is awesome with 5.1 ... just awesome. Not BluRay ... but hopefully, soon some good classic shows will find their way to that format. For music, 2.1 is the only option. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12194 Registered: Dec-04 | Mike has a pretty good HT, just left it forlorn with his kit. I do 2.0 cause I got no room. And cause I dont need a sub for music.  |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2461 Registered: Jun-07 | Im with Nuck, I am 2.0 all the way. Small enough room, and the speakers produce plenty of bass. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9490 Registered: Feb-05 | Music 2.0 Movies 5.1 . |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2462 Registered: Jun-07 | Couldn't agree more Art. Just got my projector hooked back up today and the wife and I were just watching Twilight on blu-ray. Un-real. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1903 Registered: May-06 | My HT kit is in my profile, I just rarely use it. I rented something from Blockbuster about a month ago as I thought it would sound kickass on my HT. I think I now own it and still have not listened to it. Doh. Oh, on your Iron Man comments, just to give you an idea where my head was at, for the first two posts I am thinking why would they do Black Sabbath on a HT system. Doh #2. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12239 Registered: Dec-04 | Cheers Mike, good luck tomorrow am at work, LOL! Nuck out till 4am. Red Wings suck! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2464 Registered: Jun-07 | lol Nuck if Red Wings win another cup I will vomit all over myself. Michael Wodek - "for the first two posts I am thinking why would they do Black Sabbath on a HT system. Doh #2." I hear ya man. I knew you meant music. I agree. Movies is movies, music is music, even if its on a DVD.lol. Led Zeppelin on DVD up in the two channel system sounds amazing. Cheers. |
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Bronze Member Username: SlappyjonesPost Number: 21 Registered: Aug-08 | Zeppelin on DVD is sweeet.Try the new Who Live at the Isle of Wight blu-ray disc.Keith Moon's drumming sounds like there is a locomotive coming through my living room ! |
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