My HiFi dealer likes Naim best and sells Rega, Cambridge Audio. Honestly, all I have done is try out a series of used kits, never coughing up the cash for a really good one. Now I see a Nait5i on sale. Are there any Naim lovers/haters out there. I would use it with my Rega P3 turntable and Rogers monitors for the "vinyl room" replacing the mystery old ADS reciever I got cheap. I missed the bid on the Rega Brio3 last week.
If not good for Rogers, I could also use it on my living room with the new Quad11L. Once you start looking at all the used stuff on Audiogon and ebay a guy could get overwhelmed with the choices. On ebay I see a Classe CAP-100 Integrated Amplifier starting bid of $500. Probably run up to the Nait price. That is way under retail! Never hear it though. There are so many different models of seperates, such as Rotel that there are probably good deals if one knew or had time to research the models. I am mostly just looking at what has been recommended to me.
Another Naim lover. I agree with Art's opinions here. But, a good number of people on the Naim user's forum use the Rogers and Quads. I'm pretty sure they pair up well together, but you never know what others are truly listening for.
The Nait 5i doesn't have a built in phono stage, therefore you'll have to factor that into the price equation if you don't have a seperate one. If you're serious about the Nait (did I mention its a great integrated amp?), you may want to look into Naim's Stageline phono pre-amp. It needs a seperate power supply though, which makes it even more expensive. The Dynavector phono pre-amp is just as good, and some may say better, and a little cheaper. The Rega Fono is very good too, but not as good as the other two.
Where I have heard Naim in Seattle has Quad and Rega too. This phono stage does complicate things. Thanks for the tip. Maybe I should just watch for an amp w/good phono like reputedly Rega and others. Still thinking I could go for it on the not turntable system w/the Quads and not worry about phono. There is a pretty cheap Nait3 on ebay but reviews say the 5 is much improbed. Hmmmm?
Yes, Hawthorne in Seattle where I trade used gear every year. The only one thing I have held onto for many years, is the little Rogers. I may not leave Alaska for a few years now though. T I got beat on one ebay auction by $1 at the last 4 minutes! Audiogon seems like a good place to look. Maybe not as cut throat as ebay. Art- do your OR dealers have used gear?
Classe vs Naim you say?? hmmmm. Is Naim in tight partnership with Rega? Why I ask. I was just on both their sites, and their almost straight copies of each other. Also, the stuff they both sell almost look like the same design. Is this off topic?oh well.
Naim, Rega and Classe are fairly well known brands(Classe less so), but each is faithful to their presentation. It's pretty hard to go wrong with this type of equipment and commitment, unless your room is gawdawful.
From what i understand, it has a more raw and live sound. Kind of like a cult classic/following. The 5's (there wasn't a 4) sound more refined and have a broader mass appeal. Some said Naim sold out when the came out with the current gear.
Also, I think the Nait 3 is a lot more sensitive to cabling than the 5. Using anything other than Naim's NACA5 speaker wire can make the amp oscillate.
The Nait3 came in two versions, with or without remote control. The remote controlled one (Nait3R) did sound better (it was a complete redesign because cobbling a remote onto the Nait3 made it sound bad).
The Nait3/3R was a 30wpc into 8, 45wpc into 4 amplifier. As with all old (and some new) Naim amps, it requires Naim NACA5 speaker cable, minimum 3.5m per side. The speaker cable was designed as part of the output circuit of the amp. If you wish to use an alternative you have to ensure it has the right impedance characteristic, otherwise you could cause (unwarranty'd) damage to the amplifier.
The Nait3/3R has the possibility of plug-in phono boards. These are the same boards as you could put in Naim's then top of the range kit so they were pretty good. These are called 5-series boards. 522 boards are moving magnet (designation of N). 523 boards are moving coil. There are several variants of 523 (S, K, E). The most common is the 'S' board for most moving coil cartridges. The K board was designed for Linn cartridges. You can find the boards second hand, and I believe they may still be available new from Naim, though I could be wrong about that. A pair of new boards cost about $200, so not bad value. It's a simple matter to plug in the boards - anyone can do it.
The original Nait was about 12 wpc and sounds like an amplifier 3 times as powerful as that at least. It had a built-in MM phono stage. The Nait2 improved the power output to about 20wpc and is one sweet amplifier.
The Nait5 was a fully remote controlled 30wpc/8, 45wpc/4 amplifier. Incredibly flexible, you could use it as a preamp to a Naim power amp, or as a power amp to a Naim preamp, and you could improve it with an external power supply for the preamp. It also had individual gain setup per input so you could match up the slightly different outputs of your various sources. The 5 also had the same speaker cable restriction as the Nait3/3R. The 5 introduced the lack of a built-in phono stage, but it could power an external phono stage called a Stageline which comes in the familiar N, S, K, E variants and is still the current offering from Naim (there is another called the Prefix which is designed to fit inside an LP12 but that's another story...).
All the above amplifiers have DIN inputs only! You would have to use a Mayware adaptor or buy correctly terminated interconnects for these products.
The Nait5i is again fully remote controlled, but loses the variable gain feature as Naim opted for a passive preamp in this case. It also loses the flexibility features of splitting up as preamp/power amp etc. The really nice feature it keeps is that the AV input can be programmed for unity gain, allowing you to use the amp as a power amp in a surround setup via the AV input if you should so choose. The other three inputs would be used in the usual way. It also introduces RCA (phono plug) inputs. It still sounds better when connected via their preferred DINs but at least you can connect it up with any more standard interconnects if you should choose. Since it loses the capability to power a Stageline, you would have to buy a Naim power supply for that purpose (Naim are big into power supplies). There are 4 power supplies available from about $150 to $5000 that can power a Stageline although the latter is probably overkill in a Nait system! You can of course plug any 3rd party phono stage into the amp as any line input. The Nait5i is rated at 50wpc/8 and is by far the most powerful Nait until the SuperNAIT was introduced a few weeks ago. It can deliver a burst of 500w into a 1ohm load! It also doesn't have the restriction on speaker cable. In my experience it still sounds best with Naim speaker cable but it has been designed to cope with many cables of today.
Phew! I'd forgotten how many Naits there were...
Incidentally, I believe that most Rogers models would not be a difficult load so most Naits apart possibly from the original Nait 1 would most likely cope with your pair.
no No. It's only high maintenance in the beginning, but once set you just forget and play music for 10 years. After 10 years, it's recommended (but not necessary) that you get it serviced. A service may involve replacement of output capacitors and/or transistors making the unit come to life almost as new (I know of 20-year old amplifiers that come back sounding so new they have to be run in all over again).
Women are far higher maintenance, requiring periodic expensive care. And you don't get a new one after 10 years - well, if you do that's really expensive!
With the used Naim I will have to be careful if I get one on Audiogon or... that it has the right wires.
I had a Naim CDp that sounded great but was choosey about what cds it would play and it was fussy to get the weight right so I divorced her and took a huge HK int-amp/tuner set in trade. I miss her and that is why I am looking at used Apollo and 1072.
Naim have changed the latest players so the puck is far more consistent. It always slips into place correctly and since it doesn't use the little rubber o-rings any more, it doesn't go 'off'.
That said, the Apollo is a ridiculously good machine for the money...especially when left on for a few hours to warm up! I still prefer a warmed up Naim, but there's stioll the value for money aspect of the Apollo. As to the Nait, every model has been a very engaging amplifier, and as with all decent HiFi, making sure the ancillaries are right and the setup is good always pays dividends.
Thanks Frank for all the good info! I had my dealer put me on his used list for Apollo, Rotel 1072, Nait. He said ok but if I want something now he has a Quad 34 preamp, amp set, same as you see now on Audiogon. I think I will get a cdp first unless I see a real steal. Speaking of the Apollo. I read Jazz Times mag for the music but they have a couple pages each issue on HiFi gear. The recent issue w/Frisell, Motain & Lovano on the cover, they recommended the Rotel 1072, the Apollo and said that as good as it is, the Saturn "draws very big rings" around it. In the upper class they also review Classe CDP 102. (btw listening to that Frisell, Lavono CD right now on Azure 640C)
In the right system, the Saturn runs rings around the Apollo. It was quite surprising when I did the Apollo/Saturn comparison in a fairly simple Rega system recently. I wasn't expecting a huge difference but the Saturn really stepped the whole system's performance up a gear...
And I have been looking for a bargain on the Apollo. There is a Saturn on AudiogoN now. Hmmmmmm?
Did you say that lying to the new wife is OK??? We have a standing joke: When she asks how much something cost I give an answer so low as to be a joke not a lie. I didn't answer her on the Quads but bragged that they were 1/2 price which was true. Funny, she was thrilled w/the piano black! The Saturn will have to be an outright lie. Not that I am afraid! Honest!!! It is that she will think I am crazy. Seriously! She just would not understand it. Ha, so I tell the truth and she will think it is a joke.
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