Sub confusion

 

New member
Username: Benjamminc

Post Number: 1
Registered: Feb-07
Hi guys. I have a mission m2sa5 active sub.

ive been using it with my old stack system. at first i ran it using the RCA out on my hifi. the result, it went loud but sounded terrible.

recently i changed it to using the speaker line input, and it sounded better but im still not happy with it.

just now ive put it in my other room hooked up to my sony home cinema receiver, and running off the sub out, it sounds exactly how i envisaged it would when i bought it!! Much more controlled and it doesnt just boom at certain frequencies.

My question is, where do i go from here in terms of upgrading.

I want to get some nice speakers for my mids/treble, but im thinking i probably need another amp. I tried connecting some bookshelf speakers to my home cinema amp and they seemed quite tinny, not much of an improvement over the standard surrounds, they sounded much worse than they do on their hifi system.

So. Do i persevere with home theatre amps for the sub out, or is there some way i can progress using a normal 2 channel amp??

My home cinema amp is a sony STR-de497P
 

Gold Member
Username: Hawk

Highlands Ranch, CO USA

Post Number: 1188
Registered: Dec-03
ben:

Answering your questions is a bit tough as I do not have a clear concept of what you have and what you want. It sounds like you have an old stack system for music and a HT system--so, which system are you looking to improve?

1. Nice sub, in fact, far too nice for your stack system. What you have learned is that such systems have no real control through the sub out, so I would keep it with your home theater system. If you want a sub to go with your stack system, check out an inexpensive Cyber Acoustics or Logitech sub meant for a computer speaker system. Anything better is a waste.

2. However, if you want to improve your music system, I do think you could go the two channel route for your sub--with decent components, you can make a marked improvement, but I have no idea what kind of a room you have. Now, you can get a real improvement with a great little integrated amp such as an NAD C325bee, but such amps rarely, if ever, have a dedicated sub out. You can still connect the sub by insterting a "Y" connector to the pre-outs, thus splitting the signal between the sub and the integrated's on board amp. You still won't have as much control as when you have it connected to a HT amp, however. However, if it were me, I would send the sub to the HT system and look into a nice two channels system for my music, starting with the NAD integrated and adding a couple of nice speakers, such as B+W DM600s or PSB B25s, which aren't all that expensive.

3. If you want to upgrade your HT system, I would absolutely begin by replacing your receiver. I am not familiar with your model Sony receiver, but in doing a Google search, it appears to be part of a Home Theater In a Box (HTIB) system. You will not believe the improvement in your sound with a quality HT receiver. Replace the speakers later, but you do have a fine sub to start with and the receiver should be your next step.

4. Set a budget and let me know--I will make a few suggestions. I will let you know that under $1K, there are really only five brands of HT receivers worth looking at because these are the five that install both a good power supply and good output stages. Those five are H/K, Marantz, NAD, Outlaw and Pioneer Elite (but not Pioneer!). Everything else is a mass market brand that is merely trying to make their receiver as cheaply as possible. IMO, they sound like it, too.

5. You can upgrade speakers later--with good amplification, you will hear an improvement with the speakers you have now.
 

New member
Username: Benjamminc

Post Number: 2
Registered: Feb-07
thanks for your response hawk.

you are right about the amp, its a HTIB system, as are the speakers.. however it is a separate amp with decent (ish) features, and i managed to get it from work for an absolute steal at about £120 a couple of years ago.

Would the sub sound decent running off a pre-out on a decent 2 channel amp? Or would it not sound as good as coming from the dedicated LFE of a ht receiver. (apologies if i am over simplifying this issue!!)

I would ideally like to upgrade along a two channel route. but if the most practical route for using a sub is to go along the home cinema line then that would not put me off.. that way I am getting two uses out of my upgrade, films and music, rather than just music.

in terms of budget, its low currently, next to nothing! just what i can scavenge, but i might have up to £300 to spend in the near future. Bear in mind i am i the UK and not the US.

my first priority has to be speakers and amplification. Am i right in thinking that if i get some two channel speakers and a two channel amp i can run them alongside the home theatre amp purely for its sub output.

Say if i had it going like this,,
Integrated amp (speakers_
CD Player goes to:
Home Theatre Amp (sub)

Or could that cause a delay in the signal between the two amps, so that say the sub is slightly out of time?

Thanks for your help
 

New member
Username: Benjamminc

Post Number: 3
Registered: Feb-07
^^^ ignore that bit, the text didnt space out.

What i was trying to say...

Have the cd player as a source, supplying the HT amp, and the integrated amp side by side, and the integrated amp dealing with the speakers, and the HT amp dealing with just the subwoofer.

or a similar set up, perhaps using the HT amps outputs for the left and right channel goign to the integrated amp.
 

Gold Member
Username: Hawk

Highlands Ranch, CO USA

Post Number: 1199
Registered: Dec-03
ben:

In your case, it is likely that you cannot do what you want. Again, I do not know your receiver, but as you have confirmed that it was a HTIB, your Sony is unlikely to have the requisite pre-outs. This is not meant as a criticism; rather, it is just an observation that HTIB receivers are quite sparse with features, and one of the first things cut when designing such a receiver are pre-outs for an external amp. With pre-outs, it is possible to do what you are suggesting--running the signal from the HT receiver to a new integrated two channel amp to solely drive your front speakers and the HT receiver to drive the subwoofer. You would run interconnects from the pre-outs to the "amp in" jacks on the back of the integrated amp. BTW, please don't even think about using the speaker level outputs to run to an integrated--no home integrated could ever accomodate such a high level input signal and you would fry it in no time.

I have another suggestion. In researching some info for another person, I discovered that the NAD two channel receiver, the C720bee, has a sub-out. I looked at their integrateds, along with the Cambridge integrateds, but I did not see any sub outs with any integrated from either brand. I know the NAD receiver has a suggested resale price of $599 here in the USA, so I would expect it would run around 300 quid in the UK. That is, if you wanted a two channel solution. I am sure there may be other brands with two channel receivers that also have a sub out, but I do not know what else may be available where you live. Alternatively, you could get a new HT receiver, which will no doubt have a sub out.

It is very tough to build a system based upon a HTIB receiver because they are mated to a speaker set that really only works well with that receiver. You mentioned that when you connected a pair of bookshelf speakers to your Sony and they sounded "tinny." This is no surprise--speakers which do not receive adequate amounts of current usually do sound very tinny. You will likely find that the Sony has very low power and the speakers that came with it are very high efficiency, thus giving you adequate volume when used together. But the Sony is not likely to have the power to make purchasing new speakers worthwhile, as you have already discovered. Instead, to upgrade, I would encourage you to think in terms of a complete solution which would mean getting the electronics you want for a long term investment. That is, figure out where you want to end up, and then plan your upgrade purchases accordingly. You have the Sony system which may serve your needs for the time being, so figure out what you want a new system for. If you decide that you want a system that will do double duty (HT and music), then you probably will want to wait until you can afford a good HT receiver. Alternatively, if you are fine with your HT now, and really want a good system for just listening to music, then I would look into getting a good two channel integrated or receiver, and then add good speakers later as you can afford them. But develop a plan for what you want--don't just simply buy random pieces hoping that they will work well together. As I am fond of saying--if you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there. You really need to decide where you want to go.
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