Afraid of Volume

 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU...

Post Number: 582
Registered: Dec-06
I got my Paradigm Seismic 10 almost a week ago and I'm afraid to turn it up much. Already when I played a movie the subwoofer's driver hit the carpet (I was watching,) so I adjusted it's feet to make it sit a little higher on the ground. Now when a ship flies by or an explosion happens the driver gets about 3mm from the carpet. Am I pushing it too hard, and can I turn it up louder?

I have it placed in the large opening between the living room and listening room, which is also very open into the kitchen and dining room.
The listening room is 22x14, the living room is 24x34, and then there's an even larger opening (12' wide) that opens into the 34x13 kitchen/dining area. The listeining room has a vaulted ceiling that starts as 10' and reaches 17'. All the other rooms are vaulted ceilings as well but they only reach 13'. Yeah it's a very open house.

When the driver is almost hitting the ground I have the receiver's control knob at about -5 and the sub's gain at just over halfway. Thanks for your help! It's plenty loud but you know how it is, I think.
 

Silver Member
Username: Davidpa

Portland, Oregon US

Post Number: 273
Registered: Nov-05
at half volume on the sub, it should be loud, and locatable, which the locatable part is not ideal.
A room that size should have more than one sub, then you wont have to drive the one you have as hard, and can even turn the volume control down, as the other sub will share the load of the LFE. With all the open spaces, it may be difficult to get both to work together, but it can be done with time and effort.
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU...

Post Number: 583
Registered: Dec-06
Now I didn't tell you have the receiver turned down to -10dB on the sub output instead of 0 or +10dB. If I had a choice I'd have two subs anyway.

I close my eyes and it sounds like it's coming from the speakers . It have it crossed over at 50hz so that might be why I don't know. Everything sounds correct to me, so I guess I'll have to wait a few years until I can afford another one. Well actually I should be getting my first job in about 1.5 years. Whoopee.

Thanks for your responses. I've only tried the sub in one area of the room, but I have moved it a few inches and aligned the phase and crossover to integrate with the system. All bass above 50hz, including LFE goes to the mains.

I don't know if I should try the crawling method, but if I did I'd have to get the cable and power cord long enough. Thanks for help.

Oh, and when I have the receiver turned up so loud that's just to see how loud I can get things (it's too loud for normal listening, gotta wear earplugs)
 

Silver Member
Username: Davidpa

Portland, Oregon US

Post Number: 275
Registered: Nov-05
Andre, try putting the output on reciever to 0, and turn the subs power down, it wont work as hard, and you'll probably get more control of the sub, I've done both, and found that the setting on the processor I use (+2) keeps my sub volume knob at about 15% of max volume, and its more than sufficient.
Just a thought.
And yes, you should try the crawling technique, you'd be surprised at what you find! Plus, you'll end up with a pretty good spot for the sub!
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU...

Post Number: 587
Registered: Dec-06
Well then I need to go get an RCA cable coupler to temporarily extend the main cable so I can try that. I'll place it in the chair. I also need to know if I can use an extension cable for a 1200 watt RMS Class-D amp. Thanks!
 

Silver Member
Username: Davidpa

Portland, Oregon US

Post Number: 277
Registered: Nov-05
Make it a good extension chord, leave the christmas light ones alone!
Also, dont have volume as high as what you might when in final position, that way you know its the best spot for the sub. If you turn it up, you may find "false" hot spots, also, be sure to rotate sub, that will change where the best location actually is. The sub doesnt necessarily need to face one certain direction to work its best, but cosmetics may become an issue?
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 9592
Registered: May-04
.

"Well actually I should be getting my first job in about 1.5 years. Whoopee."




Whoopie?



How old I feel.

.
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU...

Post Number: 588
Registered: Dec-06
Nah cosmetics aren't going to matter. It's a down-firing sub with a passive radiator on each side that from test tones I learned work from 20hz to 30hz so yeah I guess direction will affect sound down there. Maybe the legs on the sub will hinder the output, we'll see. It's less than a cubic foot in size anyway so where I put it won't affect cosmetics much. Each side looks about the same...black.

I found this about .5 inch diameter extension cable that's green and it's nice, thick and heavy. Will that do?
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU...

Post Number: 589
Registered: Dec-06
Lol Jan, you're only as old as you feel remember.

Do you spell it whoopee or whoopie?
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU...

Post Number: 595
Registered: Dec-06
I also ran a separate circuit and put in a separate outlet from the circuit breaker to avoid any problems since I already have so much running on one circuit. Do you think that was a good idea?

Thanks for helping.
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU...

Post Number: 602
Registered: Dec-06
Um well remember I don't know if it was a good idea to run the sub on a separate circuit and I also don't know if this 100' extension cable will do with hooking the sub up while I "Crawl for Bass."

Doesn't whoopee mean a gleeful shout and whoopie like a whoopie cushion? Eh whatever.

Hey over the last few days I've noticed while breaking in my sub has gotten more and more powerful in the low frequencies (below ~27hz).
Ok thanks.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 9599
Registered: May-04
.

"Do you spell it whoopee or whoopie?"



It depends upon through which orifice it leaves your body.
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU...

Post Number: 611
Registered: Dec-06
Lol, well anyway, my dad came home with a RadioShack Gold series coupler and I extended the cable to the chair. I listened as I crawled around listening to various things and found a spot where the deepest bass came out and where it was loud. I then checked for one-note bass. I found the perfect spot and put it there. The cable I used hangs in the air to get there. It doesn't look very good that way.

Anyway, before I calibrated it and dialed it in and bla bla bla I listened to how it sounded before I did. It sounded much better than it did, but the response was boomy and not very clean. It sounded very muddy and uneven across the room. When I sat down in the chair it sounded the same but it pulled the image of the music to the left of the room away from the tv.

I reversed the subwoofer phase on the output on the receiver and then played the crossover frequency (50hz) through the system while I slowly rotated the phase while my dad listened for the LEAST bass. I then made the phase normal on the output of the receiver, then the bass suddenly switched from thin and tinny to full and strong. I then rotated the subwoofer until my dad said it sounded the fullest (with a 25hz tone) and most to the front of the room (with a 50hz tone).

After that I adjusted the level until my dad (at the listening position) said it blended well with the music we were listening to and then a movie.

When I took a seat to take a listen it sounded full and strong like it should. The image was still destorted because it was so far to the left. I was badly dissapointed thinking low frequencies were omni-directional. I checked everything to make sure it was right. I found I forgot to set the subwoofer distance in the receiver menu. After I did that the image pulled back to the screen where it should've been. Deep bass also sounded correct and powerful around the room. Everything sounded right and clean. The bass also filled everything in making it deep and full. During the scary part of the movie I watched, the rumbles of the the quiet halls added to the effect of the movie, very good.

I'm surprised/amazed at the huge difference placement and tuning made in the sound and loudness of the subwoofer. I give two thumbs up to the "crawl for bass" method.

The image is still slightly pulled to the left by the subwoofer, and the sound doesn't quite emanate from everywhere, but in 3 years when I can afford another Seismic 10, I'll buy another one to fix that problem and make it sound much better. Then it's time for...other upgrades finally.

Thanks for your help!
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 5181
Registered: Dec-04
Good job, Andre.
And Andre's dad.
 

Silver Member
Username: Davidpa

Portland, Oregon US

Post Number: 282
Registered: Nov-05
Your very welcome for the tidbits I offered, glad to hear you gave it a shot, sounds like you've done it correctly. And now, it should be much more enjoyable as well. Good job.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 3773
Registered: Feb-05
That Seismic 10 is one of the best subs that Paradigm has produced. The Ultracube isn't bad either. Sounds like you are having fun and learning at the same time, bravo Andre.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 9608
Registered: May-04
.


The sub is reproducing frequencies that should be monophonic from the source forward. The mains are allowed the harmonics of those signals and those frequencies are what your ear uses to accurately place the sound source in space. Theoretically, you could place the sub behind your listening position and still hear the sound as if it were all originating at the front speakers - if you have the system set up correctly and the blend between speakers and sub is seamless.




With the main speakers reproducing more than eight out of ten octaves, there is no particular reason for the sub's placement, or existence for that matter, to pull the stereo "image" to the left. Shifts in the placement of the soundstage are generally the result of some problem other than the existence of a subwoofer. Even when the crossover frequency is too high on a sub, the entire soundstage isn't pulled in one direction. If you set the roll off at 150Hz, you should just be more aware of the sub's placement when mid bass frequencies are playing and should not sense the entire stage shifting to one side.


In three years there probably won't be a Seismic 10 on the market.

.
 

Silver Member
Username: Davidpa

Portland, Oregon US

Post Number: 283
Registered: Nov-05
The pulling can be minimized, or eliminated by turning sub volume down as well. Volume control is critical to an "invisible" sub
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU...

Post Number: 616
Registered: Dec-06
Well, we'll see how it goes.

Yes, Jan, you're right. I'm more aware of the sub than I should be. It's a little annoying because I can feel the sound in my left ear more than the right. The "other" perfect spot is a spot I can't get to until we're done moving into this house.

Thanks again.
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU...

Post Number: 663
Registered: Dec-06
Well, I decided to move it to another good spot I found. It's also slightly closer to the wall, so I had to turn it down a little bit. It elminiated the effect on my ears. Everything sounds much fuller, but with music when it shakes the chair. It gets annoying when it's not fast and powerful music.

I still can't wait to move it to the right spot. Two subwoofers will be nice to help balance out the bass and increase headroom. Maybe I should get another sub for my room, because I loved the sound of a sub in there.
 

Silver Member
Username: Davidpa

Portland, Oregon US

Post Number: 288
Registered: Nov-05
If its getting annoying, turn it down so that it is integrating w/ your system, and not overpowering it. Its not there to dominate the setup, its there to compliment it. If your struggling with the one sub, I would recommend waiting on the second one, its not as easy to integrate 2 subs. I actually had issues when I swapped out my main speakers, instead of side firing woofers, I went to front firing, but bottom ported, which changed EVERYTHING. And actuall got some pretty good sites to look at from Jan. Sounds like now you have a boomy sub w/ no quickness to it now, which tells me its not in the right spot, and also, my opinion by what you say is happening is still too loud, and your probably working with some room nodes around the 40hz area, which is pretty common, and a beast to get rid of, crossover settings, and volume will help, but that can only be done by experimenting yourself. There is nothing myself, Jan, or anyone else can tell you to do to get it integrated correctly, you have the info, now its just a matter of putting in the time! Good luck, and keep posting, Id like to know what your final solution is.
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU...

Post Number: 666
Registered: Dec-06
It's going to take a LONG time since there is a bunch of stuff where it should be. Also, when it shakes the chair the receiver is at like -10, at around -30 only movies can be felt in the chair somtimes.

Yes, I've noticed the annoying lag behind the music now. I did adjust the phase and crossover some which helped. I'm going to do some more work on it after I do my algebra homework here soon. I'll take some time on that...but I've got a stupid amount of homework to start on here in about 5 minutes, so um...bye.
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU...

Post Number: 667
Registered: Dec-06
Omg I spelled sometimes wrong!
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., SouthWest Mi... Too Many DBs...

Post Number: 723
Registered: Dec-06
Omg it's post 666 OMG OMG OMG!!!!

I sent Paradigm an E-mail a few days ago, let's see what they say.
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., SouthWest Mi... Too Many DBs...

Post Number: 756
Registered: Dec-06
Man I think my E-mail is messed up. All I'm getting are Ecoustics E-mails
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 5289
Registered: Dec-04
Who else would call you , Andre?

Signed NERD.INC.
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., SouthWest Mi... Too Many DBs...

Post Number: 758
Registered: Dec-06
*Runs away*
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 5292
Registered: Dec-04
'afaid of volume' COWARD!
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., SouthWest Mi... Too Many DBs...

Post Number: 761
Registered: Dec-06
I must ask why you mispelled "afraid"

I guess the title "Pushing it too hard?" would have been better.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mike3

Wiley, Tx USA

Post Number: 231
Registered: May-06
AM,

Perhaps you have a chance at earlier employment. Nuck needs a publicist and I see where you are all over that. LOL
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 5297
Registered: Dec-04
Because I spell pooorly.
Pushing too hard means an underperforming amp.


Nawwww
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 5298
Registered: Dec-04
Don't pissmeoff kid.


























Absolutely a joke.
 

Silver Member
Username: Arande2

400dB could probably d..., SouthWest Mi... Too Many DBs...

Post Number: 792
Registered: Dec-06
Nvm I stuck it in the corner and I wondered if that bass was coming from the same sub! I had to turn it down like to about 15% instead of 60% for the same volume.

Now when the driver's moving that far cd's are falling out of place lol.
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