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New member Username: SirugoPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | I have decided to go for two pairs (decent pricing) of car speakers instaed of one pair of real in-wall speakers (too pricy). I'm building the room right now so I have the chance to do what need sto be done to make the speakers deliver good sound. Now, what do I have to consider when mounting the car speakers? What should the dimension of the boxes be behind each speaker? Anything else? Anyone with experience on this one? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7825 Registered: May-04 | What boxes? They're going in a hollow wall with four sides; right? |
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New member Username: SirugoPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 | OK, but isn't that wall "too big"? Shouldn't I build a box having dimensions more like a normal speaker? Or can they be built in "as they are"? What's the main difference between "real" in-wall speakers and car speakers? |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 813 Registered: Dec-03 | It's not too difficult to get the enclosure size IF you have the Theil/Small parameters. The trouble may be that those numbers are not readily available. Most car driver manufacturers/retailers do not provide those numbers opting instead to say "it fits in (whatever) car". You may be able to get a close approximation if you can figure out the volume of the space in a car door. Other choices would be to measure the T/S parameters yourself or use "trial and error". Most car speakers are made for small spaces so a small box (as little as 2 or 3 liter) might be a starting point. You're on the right track thinking that the space in the wall is too big. Even so, the compliance of the driver may be high enough that it would work, however, you may not be able to achieve the volume levels you want without over driving the speaker. Seems like a lot of work for what may be less than optimal results. There are plenty of suitable drivers out there for in-wall installation if you're willling to do a little carpentry. If you have a budget at all perhaps I can suggest some. |
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New member Username: SirugoPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 | I already have the amplifier (an old decent NAD 3240PE). I'm willing to pay $150 for two pairs. I'm not after volume levels, but rather sound with quality. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7829 Registered: May-04 | Tim - If Paul decides to go with the car speakers, wouldn't he be just as well off merely building his "box" with nothing more than two (top and bottom) horizontal battens between the studs to approximate the general size of the enclosure he needs? |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 814 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan- Possibly yes. If the mechanical and electrical compliance of the drivers are high enough they could (theoretically) be played in open air. It's not unusual for car speakers to do that. I can't seem to bring myself to make that a definite statement however. $150 for 4 drivers huh? Hmmmm...... |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 815 Registered: Dec-03 | Paul- Why 4 drivers? What configuration are you considering? Will you be using a bass box (a.k.a. subwoofer)? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7830 Registered: May-04 | PartsExpress just sent me a clearance catalog and they could do it for Paul. I can't vouch for the quality; but at $75 per pair, how picky are you going to be, Paul? |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 816 Registered: Dec-03 | What I'm thinking of is the Fostex FE127E in a small vented box approximately 610 cu. in with a 1.5" diamter vent 2" in length. Should fit nicely in a wall cavity. |
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New member Username: SirugoPost Number: 4 Registered: Mar-06 | Thanks guys. =) I had a fast look around the net and i found something as simple as Pioneer TS-A6901. http://www.pioneer-eur.com/se/product_detail.jsp?product_id=9788&taxonomy_id=25- 131 Still I wonder: what's the difference between in-wall speakers and car speakers other than the higher price for the same sound? And the choice of colours. And the "lower profile" out the wall? |
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New member Username: SirugoPost Number: 5 Registered: Mar-06 | The Fostex has a range from 70 Hz which won't give me too much bass? I want four speakers only to let the sound come from more than "one" place in the room. I'm not after a 5.1 system. Maybe one pair is enough on second thoughts. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1005 Registered: May-05 | In wall speakers and car speakers are designed to do completely different things. Car speakers are designed to fill a small and odd shaped space. They also have to use different materials that can withstand direct sunlight, and temperature and moisture extremes. Car speakers can hide a lot of their sonic flaws because of road, traffic, and wind noise. I haven't personally heard car speakers in the home environment, but I would imagine them to be far less accurate than an in wall speaker. I haven't heard any in wall speakers that sound as good as conventional home speakers. All in wall/ceiling speakers I've heard are best suited for background music and ambient noise. I'm sure their are good ones out their, I just haven't heard them. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1006 Registered: May-05 | Sorry - My main point was people generally have the most problems when they try to make a product do something it wasn't intended to do. This isn't just the case with speakers, but with anything. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 817 Registered: Dec-03 | Stu outlined most of the points I was going to cover. I've heard modded Pioneer car speakers adapted for in home use and they just didn't cut it. It was a fun experiment for someone but if you want good sound and not a lot of fuss you should go with a home audio speaker. The specs I gave you will provide nice response down to 70Hz. If all you're looking for is background music in a room where no "serious" listening will be occurring having 4 of these little guys will work nicely and you could easily integrate a small sub to fill in the bottom end. If you're looking for something that creates a soundstage, images (and all those other words we like to use) go for a two channel setup and get some better drivers. At $150 a pair the options get much better. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 818 Registered: Dec-03 | Paul- I ignorantly didn't bother to ask what country you're in. Apparently Europe, possibly Germany. Am I close? |
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New member Username: SirugoPost Number: 6 Registered: Mar-06 | Sweden! |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 822 Registered: Dec-03 | Are the local home audio drivers just too expensive? That part of the world produces some very good drivers. Tymphany and SEAS to name a couple. Also, take a look at the CSS FR125 available from http://www.basaudio.net/css.htm |
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New member Username: SirugoPost Number: 7 Registered: Mar-06 | Quite expensive, yes. I'd say 50-70% on top of US prices. |
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New member Username: SirugoPost Number: 8 Registered: Mar-06 | To conclude this. Is it a REAL bad idea to give it a try with a pair of general car audio speakers put in a carefully home made box? I'm not looking for perfect sound comparable to $500 drivers but I want more than background music. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1588 Registered: Dec-04 | Paul, It is not a REAL bad idea to try anything if it does not cost too much valuable time, too much hard earned money... Or blow stuff up. Or make you sleep on the couch. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 823 Registered: Dec-03 | Yes, many Europeans have commented that the prices for drivers from European companies sold in Europe are outrageous compared to the same model sold in the U.S. It's very unfortunate that situation exists and I'm not sure why it's like that. No, your's is not a bad idea. I'm just thinking that you're doing a lot of work building speakers into a wall. If you're not satisfied you either have to live with it or tear your wall apart. A pair of FR125S from the website I referred to will sound MUCH better than car speakers. I built a home theater for a customer using that driver mounted in-wall and it was a very successful project. I believe the price is within your budget as well. The only thing that might stop you is the depth of your wall. The depth of that driver is 75mm. |
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New member Username: SirugoPost Number: 9 Registered: Mar-06 | The depth of my wall will be 100-250 mm so that won't be a problem. I'm not afaid of doing "a lot of work". I love that if it means that I will be satisfied in the end. Thanks guys. I'll give things a try and let you know i f I blew things up or hade to sleep on the couch. |
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New member Username: SirugoPost Number: 10 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi again Another question that has come up is that some speakers have 8 Ohm and some 4 Ohm. Will both types work with an ordinary amplifier? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1602 Registered: Dec-04 | No. The amp/receiver must be rated for 4 ohm |
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Bronze Member Username: PatnshanWisconsin USA Post Number: 25 Registered: Aug-05 | Car speakers are almost universally more difficult to drive than home speakers. They are generally 4 ohm, with dips that go lower than that. Pat |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7868 Registered: May-04 | I've been behind some of those dips in those cars. |