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Archive through February 19, 2006

 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 335
Registered: Jan-05
Thanks, 2C. I'll put the effort into the book but will rent the DVD too :-) My friend said he loved the honesty of Pepper's story.



 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 690
Registered: Feb-04
Good God Rantz! Do you listen to three albums at a time! Is that what you mean by multi-channel music? Is that the new Buddy Guy album on your list? I've heard it's pretty good.

John A., Have you attended Proms? I caught a telecast of 2004 Proms the other day. It looked really fun. People dressed funny, waving flags, dancing in place (at least I thought they were dancing, never can tell with the English though ;>) and acting silly while listening to rousing classical music. If classical concerts were always made that fun, I think they would attract a younger crowd.

SM, My pleasure :-)

Has anyone tried cutting squash balls in half and placing them under audio equipment? You should give it a try.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2731
Registered: Feb-05
Madeleine Peyroux's first album "Dreamland" is really special and features some great musicians. I had the pleasure of seeing her perform and meeting her a couple of years ago at the Mt.Hood Jazz Festival (the last year it was good). Larry Goldings joined her on keyboards...wow! His "sweet Science" cd is very good. That was a great festival. I had the privilege of meeting the the Heath Brothers (Percy, Albert, and Tootie) as well as Bill Summers and James Carter.
 

Don RX-1
Unregistered guest
SM, I owe you a reply and an apology re: Chuck Lichtenberger. Been busy after the trip from the rainy west, but here's my short take on CL's "$4.04" tune --- very good funky grooves, love that vamp that plays throughout the piece. Yeah, we play that kind, too, when we get together at our house for an evening of improv music.

Re: Art Pepper, please also try "Art Pepper + 11", the eleven referring to ensemble much akin to Lennie Niehaus Octet + 3 (did I do the math correctly?).

2C, MR, John A, Larry, Sem, Jan, Art, John S, etc., etc., etc., here are my recent "ear" takes:

A bunch of inexpensive (CAN $6.99) "Jazz in Paris" series CD's of Django Reinhardt, one my favorite guitar players. Reissued on the "Gitanes" label. Here's one of them:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005CF7P

There are other "Jazz in Paris" CD's featuring Diz Gillespie, Oscar Peterson, L. Hampton. etc.

Bill Evans, "At the Montreaux Jazz Festival" remastered. Fiery, hard-edged playing from the otherwise introspective piano legend.

Chick Corea, "Remembering Bud Powell." If you like bebop, give this a listen. Better still, get Bud Powell's original recordings.

Tchaikovksy: "Tchaikovsky: Suite No. 2; The Tempest" Neeme Jarvi, Detroit Symphony Orchestra
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000000AZ2

More, but must away to tuck in the little one.

G'night.
Don
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 236
Registered: Nov-05
2C - just kidding though I have been listening to a lot of music lately. Yes, that's Buddy Guy's new album (among others) and yes it's not bad at all.

"Has anyone tried cutting squash balls in half and placing them under audio equipment? You should give it a try."

Darn, things wouldn't bounce properly 2C! Actually my brother suggested that to me a couple of years back. He also places blu-tak where metal meets metal on his components. I go about about as far as bi-wiring and making sure my components sit on solid bases. Tell us what you noticed when using the half balls - and which guage squash balls - yellow, red or green dot? :-)


Art - I do like Ms Peyroux's style, though I prefer "Careless Love" over "Dreamland" which I recently purchased.
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 237
Registered: Nov-05
Don,

Howdy! I have Reinhardt's "Nuages" another Jazz in Paris disc, though I was a little disappointed. Django's Blues may suit me better. One of my favourite remasters is Oscar Peterson's "Night Train". Fabulous.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 7462
Registered: May-04


"Has anyone tried cutting squash balls in half and placing them under audio equipment?"


You can buy a bag of ten for about $8 at Target. With a tube pre amp, they are needed and much more useful than most high dollar devices.


 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 691
Registered: Feb-04
Gingko sells an isolation platform for turntables which is essentially five squash balls sandwiched between two boards. They charge $400 for it! "Well, f*ck that," I says to myself, "I'm just gonna get me some squash balls and make my own isolation platform." (pardon my french, ladies). Cutting them into two perfect halves is kinda tricky. They don't fit into a bagel cutter. Anyway, I placed them on my audio cabinet with a maple cutting board on top as my turntable platform. The most noticeable improvement is the sound image snaps into focus. Instruments are pinpointed to create a more spatially realistic soundstage. I've seen some folks use a partially inflated wheelbarrel inner tube underneath their cd player with a weight on top of the player. It achieves the same objective, which is to isolate the equipment from vibration. It's cheap and effective.
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 692
Registered: Feb-04
Don, thanks for sharing your musical selections. A fiery, hard-edged Bill Evans? I have to hear that. I will look for it on my next trip to the record shop.
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 238
Registered: Nov-05
"It's cheap and effective"

They're the best tweaks 2C! BTW, my brother has an isolation platform for his turntable - guess he forgot what squash balls can do. I notice on the new NAD gear they have half dome rubber feet - guess they too heard about the squash balls.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3913
Registered: Dec-03
Jan's been mentioning sorbothane cups. I think squash half-balls probably do the same sort of thing.

2c, Yes, I've been to the Proms. Two last season. I reviewed one concert here, forget where, it concluded RVW's "Sea Symphony". The flags etc are only on the "Last Night of the Proms", which is at the end of the season, from July to early September. I've never been to the Last Night, you have to queue for days to get the cheap seats, or enter a lottery. I've seen it on TV, I agree, it's quite a show.
http://www.royalalberthall.com/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1101
Registered: Oct-04
Whadda y'all think of four cubes of Jell-O - preferably raspberry? One at each corner?

Nah - I'm jest bein' a smart-ar$ here - I, too, have tried various half-balls of sponge rubber. Now, I must confess, I can't - simply cannot - tell any difference in sound quality with ANY of the tweaks - EXCEPT the surface treatments.

Perhaps I'm dense. Maybe I'm insensitive. Probably I'm a bit "slow." Sigh.

I remember when I put the brass cones that Rick urged me to buy for my CD player under my subwoofer cabinet. Hmm. . .I think I was supposed to hear "tighter bass." Well. . .I heard nothing different, and that's my loss, I guess. . .

I read all the reviews of varying products, where they wax eloquently over spatial differences and sonic irregularities - and all I'm able to hear is some differences in perhaps shrillness or a "shallow" quality.

I really, really wish I could tune in on all this audio wonderment - I really do. But for the life of me I am an outsider. . .not by my choice, but just by the facts. I cannot hear all this "stuff."

So much for ranting. Sorry. . .I promise to put paws over ears and mouth next time I get the urge to bark.

We've a houseful of guests for the next week, so I won't be "on" very much.

respectfully. . .LarryR
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 240
Registered: Nov-05
What I referred to as the "half dome rubber feet" on the NAD gear is that the feet are indeed inverted rubber (or something similar) domes but finish with a small circular raised lip which is rather (but not overly) spongy to dampen vibrations.

Larry. I'm sure many people don't hear what some others can regarding certain tweaks and this can depend on various equipment which can be more sensitive. So don't fret just enjoy the music. I know you're not rude old mate so I'll guess you missed my "hello" many posts back. Say hi to your lovely better half also - I hope she's keeping you on the straight and narrow.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2735
Registered: Feb-05
NAD feet fit perfectly into Vibrapods. I use them with most of my gear. They work wonderfully and aren't at all expensive.
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 244
Registered: Nov-05
Art - they're not inexpensive here :

http://www.decibelhifi.com.au/category1_1.htm

What did you use under the NAD components the isolators or the cones?

What sort of difference did they make?

M.R.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2737
Registered: Feb-05
Typically, twice the price we pay here in the US.

I used the isolators not the cones.
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 245
Registered: Nov-05
Thanks
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3914
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

I'm an outsider, too.

In HiFi, there is a lot of BS and faith - which Mark Twain defined as "believing things you know aren't true".

It is a curious facet of human nature that people get angry about people not believing things they don't really believe themselves. When the truth is manifest, non-believers are just mistaken, and there is nothing to get steamed up about. We have stayed off cartoons and Danish newspapers with admirable restraint, but I do suggest this is a case in point.

Go elsewhere on this forum and suggest that well-made cables, up to spec, all sound the same, and you'll get a similar reaction. Thought I suppose no-one will burn down your Embassy.

Anyway, it is sorting the specious claims from the real ones that provides entertainment, I suppose.

Me, I like music more and more. A good HiFi delivers it. I think we all sort of agreed on that many archives ago, but maybe it's worth saying again.
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 693
Registered: Feb-04
All I can say is let your ears be the judge. I usually take a skeptical approach with audio tweaks. There's no shortage of hyperbole by audio reviewers and audiophiles greatly exaggerating sonic improvements given by a particular accessory.

The past year, these are tweaks that have made noticeable improvements to my audio system:

Replacing stock 12AX7 input tubes with RCA 12AX7A tubes

Adding a power conditioner

Squash balls underneath turntable

Replacing stock KT88 output tubes with Svetlana EL34 tubes


Here are tweaks that didn't seem to make much of a difference:

Replacing generic phono cable with VPI phono cable

Replacing Radio Shack speaker cables with Audioquest speaker cables

Replacing Audio Research interconnects with Kimber Kable PBJ interconnects


I could live happily with my current system and spend my money on music only. In fact, that's what I've been doing, except for the tweaks noted above. It's also human nature to acclimate to what we have and want to change and improve things. It will drive me to spend an upcoming weekend building acoustic panels for the listening room.

http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/a.htm
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 248
Registered: Nov-05
2C - replacing tubes would be more an upgrade than a tweak. Like cartridges for a turnatable. No?

But, I agree, one of the better tweaks is vibration isolation or dampening. My latest was to get rid of the little rubber domes between my speaker stands and speakers and replace them with a thin sheet of cardboard. While not an earth-shattering difference, the sound did became more coherent and the bass a little more pronounced and tighter. In my experience, speaker cables and interconnects do make a difference, but I'm yet to hear the kind of major differences as described by some reviewers of the really expensive exotic types. I just don't have that sort of extra cash lying around for such extravagence. But then, they might do something special - for very high end gear and for those who can afford it.

Have fun with your room acoustics treatment.

 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2741
Registered: Feb-05
"Me, I like music more and more. A good HiFi delivers it. I think we all sort of agreed on that many archives ago, but maybe it's worth saying again."

I'll drink to that!
 

Don RX-1
Unregistered guest
[MR] "...though I prefer "Careless Love" over "Dreamland".."

the music or the cover photo? :-)

Cheers, mate! Enjoying the summer? Sorry for not posting a reply sooner. The message board went into "maintenance mode" soon after I had posted my music stuff. Must be something I wrote :-)



 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 250
Registered: Nov-05
Don, it's a hot humid summer as usual, but not nearly enough rain - yet - and we are well into our wet season.

In answer to your other question: the music of course. Maybe you guys have different album sleeves over there????

BTW - this site always seems to be going into maintenance mode lately - and it rarely sends notification emails.

BTW#2 - If you get a chance, have a listen to Claire Martin's "Too Darn Hot" if you can play half as well as her pianist then you're too darn hot also. Everyone on this album is too darn hot - classy stuff!

Cheers
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1102
Registered: Oct-04
Playing catch-up (again) We've a house full of guests, so I try to catch the forum whilst they're catching naps! (grin)

MR - (blush) no, sir, I did not catch your "hello," and am sorry. Really. . .my eyes have been giving me fits for months now, and I could only read computer-printing for about 15 minutes at a time. Finally got my second round of new glasses, and am much better able to read. Sigh - OLD dog!!!!!

To all: please do NOT think that my ranting about not being able to hear differences was aimed at any one of you. I wish - really - that some or all of what y'all have suggested DID make a noticeable difference on my admittedly mid-fi system.

The "Vivid" did make a difference. And "upping" my interconnects from stock to Blue Jeans "appeared"
to make a difference. There IS a difference between 16-gauge speaker wire and my 12-gauge Blue Jeans cables. But when my friend sent back cables that cost $1,100 USD - I could NOT tell any difference between them and the Blue Jeans. Sigh.

Back when I used the glorious LPs I, too, had rubber isolation "feet" under the turntable. Helped a LOT! But I've tried silicone, foam, brass cones, and even thought about raspberry jell-o under the CD player! I can truthfully say that - TO ME - there was NO difference in sound as a result of the tweaking.

Cardboard vs. rubber under the speakers? Yeah, I think I see where you're going with that. I, too, removed the liddle rubber feet under the B&Ws, and replaced them with a solid rubber mat. I "think" it made a difference - but I'll bet I couldn't prove it on a blind A-B test.

And there's the heart of my comments - can I hear any difference if there is a relatively-scientific, blind A-B comparison? Mer and I tried - with a friend's help - to do that with the cables. Generally, we failed to hear differences other than those referenced above.

Now - let's bring into the equation the associated gear that I have. Switch out amps, players, speakers, etc. and I might have an entirely different set of results! Probably would, in fact. . .

Music. Pure music. That's all I want. As, I dare say, all of you do, as well.

Please note: I do NOT say that various tweaks do NOT improve sound. All I'm saying is that - to my hearing - they do not. Subjectivity, for sure.

Of one thing I am sure: the promise of perfect sound forever on CDs has never come true. SACD is better, on some discs. Perhaps the projects on which SiimplyMacIntosh is working will be even better (sorry, Jan, but "better" is the best generic term I could come up with at the moment).

Glad to see Don RX-1 back - and I hope the job is going well, sir! I thank you so many times for the link to the wunnerful FM jazz station!

Away to the house-guests, who suffer, it seems, from constant hunger! (grin)

Respectfully . . . LarryR

 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 252
Registered: Nov-05
Larry

Glad to see you are helping to 'Feed the World'

:-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 695
Registered: Feb-04
Rantz,

Thanks to you I pulled out a Claire Martin disc from my dusty CD rack and had a thoroughly enjoyable listen to "Old Boyfriends". The only drawback to her music is it makes you want to have a scotch or three and a cigar. And alas I had no cigars in the house.

Larry,

How are things going with your guests? I hope you are with friends you enjoy spending time with.

It seems that digital technology is planned for obsolesence. CDs will give way to SACDs will give way to Blu-Ray will give way to SA-Blu-Rays will give way to... It's a pernicious road toward lining the pockets of the electronics-entertainment complex (OK, before you check me Rantz, I realize I'm being a little paranoid here, just a little). Ah, but vinyl... I can still play records that are older than I am. And often they sound better than cds. There's comfort in that.
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 256
Registered: Nov-05
"Ah, but vinyl... I can still play records that are older than I am."

Yeah but - pop, crackle, hiss, pop, hiss, crackle. Then, of course there's all that noise the vinyl makes.

I guess we are playing catch up here in oz - I heard the record stores will soon have kiosks so customers can download the tracks of artists of their choice onto cd's. Let's see you do that with vinyl 2C :-)

I can see the ques already!

But you are right 2C - technology needs to slow down for while, but while there's money to be made that won't happen. And I'm not against making money - I'm only against others making the stuff when I'm not.
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 697
Registered: Feb-04
"Yeah but - pop, crackle, hiss, pop, hiss, crackle. Then, of course there's all that noise the vinyl makes." LOL. I have a lot of records that have aged more gracefully than I. If I were sold second hand, I might be rated VG-; just above being a lemon.

"record stores will soon have kiosks so customers can download the tracks of artists of their choice onto cd's. Let's see you do that with vinyl" Exactly. Listening to vinyl LPs takes a greater level of commitment by the listener to the way an artist wants you to hear his/her music. There's no fast forwarding or shuffling the songs unless you want to constantly get up from your chair (pop, crackle, hiss). One sits and listens through.

Anyway I don't mean to bore you with my talk about vinyl. You already know what I think.
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 257
Registered: Nov-05
2C

You don't bore me with vinyl talk. Yawn - oh excuse me! Actually a t/t is currently under consideration since I have discovered a local store with a great selection of used records. However, it is not a priority, having spent more than my fair share on audio over the past couple of years, there are other things that do warrant attention: house maintenance and holidays etc.

Problems with my getting a t/t are that I feel the novelty factor would wear off quickly and I do like to be able to use a remote to flick past those unliked tunes. The other is that I may be disappointed then I'll want to match it up with a tube amp - or some such silly thing. :-)

In the meantime I'll take more Claire Martin on any format.

 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1103
Registered: Oct-04
(yawn) guests are (finally) gone, the fridge is almost empty, but the Scotch bottle holds about half its topped-up contents. Hmm. . .time for one.

Played a DVD movie on the Yammie yesterday, and the player got quite warm and the movie "hicked" a couple of times. . .think it's on its way out. . .

2C - the Yammie is sounding much like vinyl! (grin)

More anon, with respect. . .LarryR
 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 336
Registered: Jan-05
2C,

Got the TT hooked up and spun a few records tonight. My feelings about it are mixed. It brought back great memories to que the record - that is definitely an emotional connection you don't get with putting a CD in a tray.

My listening session was Lucinda Williams 'World Without Tears' which I have both on CD and fresh vinyl. In this example, I can't say the sound from the vinyl was more engaging than that from the CD. If anything it became a bit of a distraction because even on new vinyl there's popping and static and that kinda bugs me. Maybe this would improve if I get some treatment for the record. Plus, I'm pretty sure I don't have the tonearm properly adjusted so that may be contributing some sibilance that shouldn't be there.

I'll do some tweaking and see if this doesn't work out better. 'Cause you know I want to like this. ;)

 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1104
Registered: Oct-04
Save Vivaldi for the Italians! Thanks to 2C, who is obviously a far-advanced human being, I am enjoying the music of Vivaldi performed by Italians - the way it should be! Ahhhh! It's "only" CD sound, but if ANY of you gets (wants) a chance to hear the Vivaldi Vespers for the Virgin Mary performed by Rinaldo Allessandrini and the Concerto Italiano - please, please do it.

This is music that will raise your consciousness to new heights - unless, of course, you're mired in Rock or Country. . . (grin?)

SimplyMcIntosh: I somewhat envy your dip(s) into the World of Vinyl - and yes, that tonearm adjustment is crucial! Both attitude/angle and weight. (of the tonearm - not you! GRIN)

I read with great interest all of the multi-thousand-dollar turntables now on the market, and wonder what this means? Did everybody run out of CD tweaks? Has ultra-cable lost its luster? Is vinyl the "new/old kid on the hi-end block?"

Thinking back, I believe I spent as much time cleaning and setting-up my LPs as I ever did actually listening to them! Was the tonearm attitude off? Had the weight changed a millionth of a gram? Was the speed off? Was there vibration? Was my click/pop filter set too high or low? Where was that anti-static gun?

Fortunately, now that I'm playing CDs, I no longer have to worry. Except, of course, to check to be sure the player is warmed up. And level on its anti-vibration pads. And that the anti-vibration sandbag hasn't slipped off the back-center. And that I've sanded down inner and outer CD-rims. And applied green or black ink. And double-cleaned the disc with glop #1 and #2. And brush-cleaned the laser unit in the player this week. And cleaned the interconnect cables this month. Yep - thank Goodness all I have to do now is push that "play" button! (grin)

Respectfully . . .LarryR
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 7529
Registered: May-04


Larry, you bring up a good point for SM to notice. Winter is seldom the best time to begin listening to LP's if you have not prepared yourself for the ritual of destaticizing the disc. If you have nothing other than a carbon fiber brush to drain the static charge from the vinyl, pops and snaps are inevitable and will, in some cases, be permanently embedded in the groove by playing the disc. Most cloth type record cleaning devices, wet or dry, will contribute to, not lessen, the amount of static on the disc.


The static charge is often quite high after pulling the vinyl disc from the paper sleeve. Put the record surface close to your arm after pulling it from the sleeve. Chances are there will be enough static electricity on the disc to raise the hairs on your arm. Now go put your arm close to the screen of a CRT when it is powered up and notice how much static is on the screen. About the same as the disc, probably. That's a healthy static charge you have to contend with or, just like your TV/monitor screen, dust will be attracted to the surface of the disc. Once the dust is in the record groove, the stylus is more likely to mow it down into the vinyl than to ask it to step aside. The low humidity that is common in a home during the winter months makes the problem of static charges even worse.


Preparing the LP is a time consuming task that was as much a factor in the ascendance of those shiny little discs full of 1's and 0's as any other issue of convenience which CD's offered. SM, do you have much in the way of cleaning items for your LP's?


 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 7530
Registered: May-04


BTW, speaking of draining the static charge; does anyone remember, or still have, a Permastat arm/brush? It was the second arm that you placed (via suction cup) opposite your tonearm. It had a velvet brush on the end of the arm to track the record and intentionally set up a static charge which was then sent through the metal arm and down through a drain/ground wire to a "safe" location.


 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 7531
Registered: May-04


Away from HiFi for a moment. Art, how are you doing since your father passed away?
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 699
Registered: Feb-04
Yep.

Playing vinyl can be a lot of bother no doubt. For a lot of folks, it's never going to be worth it. Even I at times don't feel like spending the time and effort to clean a record before playing it. But most of the time, I treat the whole experience like a Japanese tea ceremony. It's as much about the experience and aesthetics as the sound for me.

SM,

Can you remind me what kind of tt you have? Setting up the tt properly is part of the tea ceremony :-) or :-( depending on how you view it.
My copy of "World Without Tears" also has the occasional pops, but sounds good overall. The sonic difference between LPs and cds isn't that discernable on a lot of new recordings, especially those that were mastered in the digital format. BTW Johnny Cash's "The Man Comes Around" sounds spectacular on vinyl.

Larry,

Good to read that you dig the Vivaldi. It's music that I think every music lover can enjoy, but I thought you especially might like it. It's too bad most people don't get beyond the "Four Seasons" and listen to some of the other great music he composed.

If any of the Old Dogs are interested in listening to this disc, I'd be glad to burn you a copy. Just send me a PM with your request.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1105
Registered: Oct-04
Art - Mer and I send along our good wishes for you in a time that is most difficult.

Jan - I had one of those arms, but haven't even thought of it for decades. It seemed to work, though. . . I also used my red anti-static "gun" for every play. Did it do any good? Heck - I "think" so!

Then I got a sorta "wonder machine." You slip the LP down in the slot - vertically - and turn on the machine, which is full of liquid cleaner, a vacuum, and all sorts of thangs. It slowly rotated the LP, and really scrubbed it - gently, I assume! Anyway, once out of the machine, the LP played like Teflon, it was that good. Lost that to the movers, too. . .

Next to my turntable I had a metal grab-bar, that was grounded to a water pipe. Before using the turntable, I, well, "grabbed" the bar and drained off any charges. Excess caution? Probably so. . .

Ah, the "good" old days. Wouldn't go back to all that for anything - but the sound sure was more lifelike! Maybe Blu-Ray will save us? Yeah, sure. . .

2C another composer I'm rediscivering is Saint-Saens. Oh, the Carnival of the Animals is still on the front-list - but there are piano concertos and trios that defy logic, they're so intricate and tonally amazing.

And - Natalie Dessay has a new Handel CD out - I just ordered it from Amazon. After two delicate throat surgeries, the lady's voice is, according to reviewers, even more mellow and clear - though her highest notes seem to be a thing of the past. Sigh. Still in love wid dat gal!!!!

Respectfully. . .LarryR
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 7539
Registered: May-04


Larry, you owned a VacO(W)Rec(k)!!!!!
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 259
Registered: Nov-05
Thanks guys (and gal)

I think you've all cured me of any t/t desires. It sounds like too much trouble. I like to be able to sit down and listen to music when the urge arises. Having a t/t sounds seems a bit like having to give the car a service each time before taking a spin. Best to put the money away for an exotic holiday or house needs if Mrs Rantz has her way - which she usually does.

Thank goodness Mrs Rantz's way includes letting me have mine now and again. :-)

"unless, of course, you're mired in Rock or Country. . . (grin?)"

Well forget the country, but I have been listening to Beethoven classics by the LSO, Larry - and enjoying them. Much more than Mahlers 5th! But give me good jazz and blues any day.

I'm coming Ms Martin.


 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 337
Registered: Jan-05
SM, do you have much in the way of cleaning items for your LP's?

Nope. I did some reading last night and found out you have to clean new records (which is what the Lucinda record is/was), too, to get rid of some mold on them...then, there's the anti-static gun and stylus cleaner, etc. While I was reading about record maintenance, I couldn't help but think back to the days when CD's had just come out and I was working in a record store. One way we "demo'd" the CD's involved sliding them back and forth on the counter a few times and then putting them in the player to be played - this illustrated to the customer how indestructible and low maintenance they were while still providing perfect sound. LOL. (Please give me a break - I was a mere teenage girl trying to make it in a man's world. Plus, my male co-workers were the ones who came up with that idea.) :-)

Also, there are those of the opinion that the older records are where you get your biggest bang of analog glory due to the older recording/mixing techniques.

All in all, it seems like a challenge to find the nirvana.

2C, my TT is a Dual with a Talisman/Sumiko (?) cartridge. I set the counterweight so the arm is "floating" slightly above the record. But, I think part of the problem (in addition to not having cleaned/treated/destaticized the records) is the counterweight might be set too lightly and I don't think the VTA and anti-skating are set properly. Right now, I have those set to 1 3/4 grams (?). The other symptom is the playback started skipping and repeating as it got nearer the end of each side of the record. This has got to be due to the arm adjustment.

As if all that weren't enough, I have a highly inadequate rack for the TT. It is on an enclosed shelf just above the MA6200 - and, both components are a pain to get to just to make simple adjustments.


Meanwhile, I continue to rip my CD collection in Apple Lossless format.... :-) and read up on the new stuff coming out (for instance, Scott Nixon's new USB tube DAC). It is encouraging (at least to me) that even some vinyl lovers are reporting good results from their experimentation with computer audio.

Nice analogy to the japanese tea ceremony though. I think I'd like it better if I'm sitting back in a Kimono being served instead of doing the serving. lol.

 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 261
Registered: Nov-05
Oh me oh my! They're darn tough in Texas!

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,18166509-2,00.html

Shame the Aussie didn't knock her block off and get her money's worth.

:-)



 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 7540
Registered: May-04


She's just lucky Cheney didn't shoot her instead. Space invading is sumpin' we takes sere-y-ous-ly rounds here!



 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 701
Registered: Feb-04
speaking of cheney (warning: defenders of this miserably incompetent administration should stop reading beyond this point), the positive thought i take from the hunting accident is that it's a good thing cheney successfully dodged the draft. i can imagine all the american lives that were saved on the vietnamese battlefront because of the absence of dick "friendly fire" cheney. it's just really really really too bad the chickenhawk now has the power to send other men to fight his battles for him :-((with tear)

back to the innocent world of audio:

SM, it sounds like you definitely have a tracking problem. Try increasing the VTF (i.e., move the counterweight so there's more pressure on the stylus). Adjust the antiskate setting, if there is one, to the same force as the VTF to start with. As far as the VTA, the starting point should be the point where the tonearm is parallel with the record when the stylus is in contact with the record. If the balance between treble and bass isn't to your liking at this point, try lowering the arm to increase bass or raising it to increase treble. Hopefully that'll dig some magic from your lps. Even if you can't get the sound just right I'm sure you can get satisaction in the retro, b!tchin' looks of the Dual tt and Mac amp :-)

"All in all, it seems like a challenge to find the nirvana."

Remember, Grasshopper, the road to nirvana is as narrow as a razor's edge.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1106
Registered: Oct-04
Jan - is THAT what I had? Wellll. . .OK, just can't remember - it was back in the 70s. 1970s, that is, for any of you who might wish to guess a century earlier for me! (grin)

MR - well, now, I'm not "above" jazz and blues, but I am a bit picky about those - if it's too "far out" I eschew them, just as I stay away from most of the so-called "modern" or "contemporary" classical compositions. Ears hurt!!!!

SM - 2C is right - and it's very easy to go too lightly on the tone arm weight. Depending on your cartridge - each one is different, as you well know. Just remember Jan's admonishments as to keeping all clean. Very clean. If you could put your LP under a microscope you'd freak out, for sure, at what you would see. Boulders in the grooves! (grin)

"Friendly Fire Cheney?" Made my day, 2C! And to all - what the heck is a 28-gauge shotgun? Never heard of such. 20, 12 and 410 I've had - this must be something new? I know, I know - it has NOTHING to do with stereo! (unless it's a double-barreled shotgun, of course!) GRIN

Respectfully. . .LarryR
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 263
Registered: Nov-05
Larry

I know you're not above jazz so I'll take a stab here and recommend Claire Martin (SACD's available from Acoustic Sounds) and you can hear some samples on linnrecords.com. Now if she can't get those toes a tappin' then Mer should seriously think about an internment before an insidious odour forces her out of the house.[grin]

Actually I've ordered two more of hers but the band in "Too Darn Hot" is outstanding, especially if you like piano and sax.


That's sax with an "a" Larry. :-)

 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 703
Registered: Feb-04
Larry R,

It warms my heart to picture you going through the record-playing ritual. You know.

I tried listening to Saint-Saens many years ago (I think it was the organ symphony). It was promptly placed on the Maybe-I'll-Like-This-When-I'm-Older shelf next to multiple volume set of Remembrance of Things Past. Well, I'm older now and some things on that shelf have actually made it to the regular listening shelf (all the Miles Davis/Gil Evans works). So are there particular Saint-Saens pieces you recommend, besides Carnival of Animals?

Don,

I looked into the Bill Evans at Montreaux album. It turns out he recorded three. Which one do you recommend (the one with the "fiery" playing)?
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 7544
Registered: May-04


Make of this what you will: "The victim is suffering but gracious. The shooter is anguished in his guilt. "The image of him falling is something I will never get out of my mind", Dick Cheney told Brit Hume yesterday, adding, "It was one of the worst days of my life." Afterward he looked back, relived the moment and took responsibility. ... You can't blame anybody else", Cheney said. "I'm the guy who pulled the trigger ... "


Hmmm?!


Is this a play written by Ionesco or what?




The Dual's tacking force is set by a spring mechanism and the actual force (assuming the spring tension is still fairly accurate) is read on a dial at the base of the tonearm and not by moving the counterweight. The position of the counterweight is determining "0" or neutral balance only. Once the arm is at neutral balance apply downforce by rotating the dial and pay attention to the scale you adjust to. There are still markings on the 505 for an elliptical or Shibatta (CD-4) stylus. You want the scale for the elliptical stylus. Adjust anti-skate to roughly the same number as the downforce setting. There is no VTA (vertical tracking angle) adjustment on the Dual but the cartridge SM has should put the tonearm at the correct angle for the broadest range of record thickness. SM, didn't I send you a tracking force guage? Are you sure you have the cartridge aligned properly? I seem to remember you said you had moved it from its original position.



I recently purchased the newly released Bill Evans box set, "The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings, 1961". It contains a note which reads, "This album was mastered in analog utilizing 20k-bit K2 Super Coding System." Does this qualify for the award "It is encouraging that even some vinyl lovers are reporting good results from their experimentation with computer audio"?



 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 704
Registered: Feb-04
"Is this a play written by Ionesco or what?"

It'd be funny as theater. Unfortunately it's real.

My favorite line so far: "Brownie, you're doing a heckuva job."
Ionesco couldn't have written a more absurdly hilarious line.

Evans' Village Vanguard recordings (Sunday at the VV and Waltz for Debbie) are very well recorded. It was the subject of a discussion here a while ago. I read a review of the reissued Bill Evans box set that didn't rate the audio quality that highly. I'd be interested to get your take on its sound quality, Jan.
 

Don RX-1
Unregistered guest
2C

The remastered edition is what I have:

Bill Evans - At The Montreux Jazz Festival

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000069NC

I'm not sure whether it's currently available on vinyl.

Cheers!
Don
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 705
Registered: Feb-04
Don, Thanks! No, it hasn't been reissued on vinyl. I'll have to check my favorite jazz record shop in Berkeley to see if they have a used copy.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1107
Registered: Oct-04
Rantz, sir: (grin) yeah, always spell that word with an "A" not an "E" and you get into much less trouble! And Claire Martin is on my short-list to audition - will let you know, sir. . .

2C - OK - there are two of my most recent S-S purc hases I'd highly recommend.

Trios avec piano # 1 & 2 - Trio Wanderer. On Harmonia Mundi 901862.

Piano Concertos - vol. 1 and 2. (SACD) with Anna Malikova, piano, and Thomas Sanderling with the WDR Sinfonieorchester Koln. They're on the "Audite" label - ver, ver good sound.
Audite 92.509 and 510 SACD.

If you don't get goose-bumps listening to these concertos, I'll be surprised. The sonic quality is tops, and the performances are, well, "amazing."

BTW - on sound quality - I'm finding very good quality from the Harmonia Mundi folk. Any of you have the same reaction?

So - is the Cheney play to be a comedy or a tragedy? Surely Shakespeare would have come up with two versions? (grin)

Both Shakespeare and Ionesco would be too esoteric for most modern Amerikun audiences, anyway. . .but write it in language similar to TV's "Desperate Housewives" and you might have a hit on your hands, Jan! I can see it now. . .

Respecfully. . .LarryR
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 7552
Registered: May-04


Larry _ Nope, I'm not in the mind to allow American effluence to go any further down the tubes. Of course Americans don't get Ionesco, that's why "Green Acres" is off the air. I always contended it was the most perfect example of Ionesco ever put on a 19" screen. But, most obviously, we are between Iraq and a hard place. Do we allow the further dumbing down of America elitism as a form of "thinking too much" or shall we just not get the joke.


 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 7555
Registered: May-04


The Village Vanguard recordings have also been remastered as the note above indicates. The entire recording session over the few days the Bill Evans trio played at the venue are on the box set. Including the false start on the first cut of the session where the power went out monentarily and today's listener, not yet having read the liner notes completely, jumps out of their chair looking for gremlins in their own playback system.

The sound is alternately very good to anachronistic. Clearly this was a minimalist recording but, just as clearly, a recording of a time prior to stereophony's prowess being disseminated to the masses. Sitting down to listen to the Village Vangaurd discs is a lesson in wide sound stages with no center fill. Evans' piano sounds from the far right hand side of the room while LeFaro's bass and Motian's drums are almost on top of one another on the left. The listener is left to wonder what the actual stage set up would have been since the performance space at the Vangaurd is relativley small. Audience particpation is present as a reminder of the location recording's origins more than any attempt to envelope the listener.


On the other hand, when heard from any spot other than the sweetest the sound of the instruments is exceptionally convincing and immediate. The flow of the music, when heard from another room will remind you of waiting in the bar for the first act to finish. The piano has resonance and fills a space that is neither large nor small. It is intimate at its jazz best. The timing and pacing of the music are enough to take you to another time and another place as the interplay between performers reaches and stretches to levels which represent the best of a Golden Age. This was the last recording set performed by this group of musicians. As the excellent liner notes by Orrin Keepnews (the original producer of all of Evan's Riverside albums) admits, this was already seen by the musicians as something that would never be bottled again.


Most assuredly, this is a recording I would recommend to anyone interested in the music and not how it sounds on your hifi.


 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1108
Registered: Oct-04
Jan: Green Acres - hmmm - see where you're coming from with that. Have to give it some thought. Though I doubt that we'll ever get the joke, Jan. Sigh.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the bass player on the Vanguard set die several months later - a car crash, maybe? Seems familiar to me. . .

Respectfully, . . LarryR



 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3917
Registered: Dec-03
I agree about Hamonia Mundi, Larry. France, Deutches and US divisions are all good.

It is good to see that this thread going strong again; and that Sem and I were wrong, some weeks ago, about its impending demise.
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 268
Registered: Nov-05
I don't think it's the impending demise of this thread that is a concern, John. It's the impending demise of it's contributors that's the real worry.

:-)
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3920
Registered: Dec-03
"It's the impending demise of it's contributors that's the real worry."

I believe that all reports to this effect are greatly exaggerated, My Rantz.

Why, I, too, still have a "Maybe-I'll-Like-This-When-I'm-Older shelf".

Cheers!

 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 7559
Registered: May-04


Not to mention the "I really liked this when I was a kid?" shelf.


Larry - I didn't attend any funeral so if he died, he rudely kept it to himself. Too bad about the joke, since it's on us (and our children and our children's children).


 

Don RX-1
Unregistered guest
Larry,

Your recollection is right --- Scott LaFaro died in a car accident soon after the album "Waltz for Debby" was recorded. It took a while for Bill Evans to come to terms with LaFaro's sudden demise. It took even longer for him to find another bassist that would fill the void: Chuck Israels, Marc Johnson, and Eddie Gomez. Each one had (has) his own unique style and tone but all knew Evans' style.



 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1109
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - had to clean off the "when I'm older" shelf, because, well, I now AM older! And not really liking much of what was there. Hmm. . .Sonny and Cher, Messiaen, Little Richard, Philip Glass, Arnold Bax, The Rondells, The Raz-ma-Tazers from N. Dakota - you get the pitcher. . .all gone. Sigh. Dumped. . .

Don: Didn't Evans record a very introspective, solo album after LaFaro died? I vaguely remember it, but don't know if it was in any kind of tribute. . .

Will try to audition some Claire Martin in a few minutes. . .

respectfully. . .LarryR

 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 272
Registered: Nov-05
This forum seems to go down more than one of Dick Cheney's hunting buddies!

While I'm griping - unless the the music is rap, alternative, hip-hop, house, headbang, or pop, do your local stores ever get new titles in the jazz or jazz/blues genres - or even the classics? Each time I visit one it seems to be the same old stuff week after week, month after month - although on occassion it happens, rarely is there something new on the racks. Mostly it seems that what is sold is replaced with the same, which I understand, but surely there are enough music lovers of the aforementioned genres to keep a decent variety in stock. And I'm not only talking hi-res recordings. I'd like to support local business more but thank goodness for places like Acoustic Sounds and Amazon. Trouble is I think most of these music stores now seem to be managed and staffed by "hip" young punks :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

Orlando, Florida USA

Post Number: 1295
Registered: Dec-03
"hip" young punks???

When I walk into one of the stores, the socks I'm wearing are usually older than the people working there. If I ask where say, I might find the selection of Robert Cray, I get the cow watching a passing train look.

The only redeeming thing is the classical section is always empty............no one taking up space or breathing my air.........I usually have it all to myself.
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 273
Registered: Nov-05
Rick old pal! Gidday!

"Hip" as in supposedly :-)

On our way to the beach. 7am Sunday and it is a perfect day. Cheers mate.

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3922
Registered: Dec-03
Rick,

Super simile. If I recall, last time, the look was Mrs B's, when being advised about speaker positioning. I laughed this time, too.

Larry,

Waiting for "when I'm older" to appreciate Sonny and Cher? Phew!

There are also shelves that could be marked "Been there; done that", and "Well, I tried".

MR,

Good on yer!
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Parkhill, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1383
Registered: Dec-04
"hip" young hips...only the recent transplants, I fear.
And I figgur the 'hip' punks would be 'all the young dudes'.
 

Moderator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1126
Registered: Dec-03
You all have set the record for the longest thread. Congrats!

With your permission can it be closed, and permanently archived?
 

Gold Member
Username: Project6

Post Number: 5996
Registered: Dec-03
Yay! The longest thread. Woohoo!
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1110
Registered: Oct-04
Admin and all: What?!?! Close the thread - our lifeline to culture and clear thought? What in the world would we all do then, sir!

Dawgs! Come to the fore! Announce your intention to be revolting if we're tossed away like so much cyber-trash!

Gulp. . .LarryR
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 7575
Registered: May-04


Hank Aaron, you just broke Babe Ruth's record!!!!! Can we trade you to Seattle now?


Admin, why do you suggest closing this thread? It's active and populated by people who have put a lot of emotion and thought into its continuing existence. You haven't been brainwashed by The Nun; have you? Or, are you Moriarty in a clever disguise?



Watson! Where's my damn fiddle?








 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1111
Registered: Oct-04
My God, Jan! If it IS Moriarty, we're in for a rough ride! Sigh. . .

And where do we go is the thread IS closed??Eh?

Respectfully. . .LarryR
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3923
Registered: Dec-03
Admin,

Thanks.

This thread was started in order to create an opportunity to discuss Jan Vigne's proposition:-

"As an aside, am I the only one who thinks music almost always sounds better when you listen just in stereo. How old I feel."

During the discussion, several of us have changed our points of view, and the range of topics covered has been large.

It is still not clear whether "surround sound" brings a more realistic re-creation of the original than two-channel stereo. In fact, there is no real agreement about whether this is the objective, in the first place.

This thread has stayed roughly on topic. In fact, several separate threads have been started to address other issues that came up, and so that they should not get in the way. Tube Talk, started by Rick Barnes, is just one example.

So, my vote is against closing the thread. It continues to be an education.

It is also topical. For example, I, for one, still don't know whether to get an SACD player. I have heard recording company spokemen saying that SACD has moved from being about "hi-res" to being about "surround sound"; exactly on topic. Yet there are new two-channel SACD players, and turntables and tube amps are a growing market. There is still plenty to discuss.

Two comments about the forum generally.

1. Archived parts of threads have no links to "before" and "after", which makes it difficult to navigate an extended discussion.

2. What happened to automatic E-mail notifications? I thought they were useful!

Best regards, and thanks, again.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3924
Registered: Dec-03
Can anyone estimate how many audio purchases have been made arising from suggestions, here?!
 

Moderator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1131
Registered: Dec-03
OK, the thread will remain open.

Regarding John's comments:
1. The [Previous] [Next] links on the lower right will navigate archived threads in chronological order.
2. E-mail notifications should be working. (If they are not please start a new thread in the "suggestions" area of the forum.)
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2767
Registered: Feb-05
The Admin couldn't be serious. All the B.S. that goes on at ecoustics and they would consider closing this thread? Figures!
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2768
Registered: Feb-05
I tried to post the above comment 1 1/2 hrs ago but as usual the forum was having difficulty. So now when it is no longer applicable it's posted.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3927
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks, and thanks for the prompt reply, Admin!

About "Before" and "After" - Yes, it works. The [Previous] and [Next] links do different things on an archived thread and on a current one. Now I know.
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 706
Registered: Feb-04
Well, that's a good conspiracy theory ruined. It went something like this: A couple potshots (or turkey shots) are taken at dick "mr. roboto" cheney, then the admin comes out of nowhere to shut down the most vibrant thread on this forum. Hmmm... is it a coincidence or is there a dedicated reader of this thread at the NSA?

If we must be on topic once in awhile, I can report back on two recent acquisitions. Beck's album "Sea Change" was just released on vinyl. I plan to compare it to the SACD, which I think is one of the best sounding 5.1 hi-res discs I've heard. I also picked up a DVD-A of the Flaming Lips' "The Soft Bulletin" and will compare it to the redbook CD. I know the music isn't really of interest to regular readers of this thread (Ben James, are you still with us?), but the comparison of the media may be.

Now, on to Sadahara Oh's record.

btw origato, mr. roboto.
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 274
Registered: Nov-05
Ah! Good to see "Teaching an old dog new tricks... " still lives. Dogs old, new, pedigree, yes and even mongrel need a place to come home and spin a yarn about their travels within and outside this forum. John A never really knew what he started, but thanks to John we have this place to sit and scratch once in a while. Thanks too Admin - now for our prizes :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3928
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks, MR.

As you know, the thread that begat Old Dogs is Frustrated with NAD T762, where I disagreed with Jan. I suggested starting this thread, with Jan's agreement, in order to get out of the way of the main topic, there. The main topic fizzled out, anyway, at least on that thread.

Two Cents;- You have all formats, now. It would be good to read your comparison of "Sea Change" on SACD and vinyl. I wonder, when you listen to the MTT SFSO Mahler on SACD, do you choose surround, or two-channel stereo?

One of my frustrations with DVD-A is that few of my discs have a two-channel track.

BTW notice that Admin has changed the subtitle of "CD Players" to "Discussions about Home Audio CD/SACD Players."

It seems to me that HiFi is definitely going the SACD route, not DVD-A. But the CD is not yet into its dammerung. I seem to have been mistaken on all counts!

Meanwhile, iPod is taking over the World...

How things have changed in the last two years.

Prizes? MR - please award yourself a turntable! :-)

All the best.

[Good Lord, I made a smiley]
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1112
Registered: Oct-04
John A. I'm "shocked and dismayed," sir! Of all things - a Smiley from Merry Olde!!! Well. . . . .

You didn't make a mistake, sir - you just weighed the options and chose a format that seemed right for you. I don't put that in the "mistakes" column. I did the same thing way, way back when I bet on the Betamax tape format over VHS. Bought a nice player, too! then came the crash and, well, I'd made a bad choice. Beta was better - always will be. . .

Ah, 2C - a question for you et al: who is pressing all of these new LPs of which you speak? Is it the major lineup of labels? I don't follow the "new" LPs, so am a bit in the dark here. I guess from your comments, and the statements of others, that more and more of these, uh, "platters" (sorry) are coming on the market. Platters, BTW for the very young, is the name given to LPs by disc jockeys many years ago.

John A again - as I've said before, I usually listen to SACDs with the back channels turned way down, so I only get a bit of "surround." Mer does not like surround sound, except for movies.

Glad we're saving the thread - THANKS, ADMIN!!!!

Respectfully. . .LarryR
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2769
Registered: Feb-05
The March '06 "As We See It" in Stereophile is a very good read. Those of you who read Stereophile please tell me what you think. For me it hits the nail on the head. There are those who believe that if you can't measure it, it musn't exist. Then there are those, like me, who believe that you simply have not learned how to measure it and that perhaps some things simply can't be measured. Not to start a debate but I really enjoyed that article.

As pertains to hi res and new formats, I have been saying for quite sometime that the SACD will survive if only as an audiophile format. The ongoing SACD vs DVD-A and upcoming Blu-ray vs HD-DVD format wars are soon to be a race to which dies first as a mass market format. The music/movie server will be the next major piece of gear that many of us will buy. This may take the form of a central household information server with docking stations where you can load whatever information you want into your notebook, ipod, blackberry or whatever and off you go. Ofcourse audiophiles will be dissatisfied with the quality and support an industry of high end servers that "sound better" than the mass marketed ones. This will be the medium that will support hi res not little silver discs. Just my opinion.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2772
Registered: Feb-05
Spent the last 2 evenings enjoying the musical company of McCoy Tyner and Nicholas Payton. McCoy looks pretty frail. This may have been the last opportunity to see him while he can still perform at a high level. And oh my what a high level. He was splendid. Nicholas Payton's band missed their flight and so only his bassist showed up. They put together a band which included local legend Darrel Grant on the piano a fairly good drummer(but clearly not in the same league as Nicholas' regular drummer) I don't remember his name. I think he usually plays with Darrel or Mel Brown (another local legend). Lastly a cute college freshman from the Indiana University, Sophie Fox on tenor sax. This was clearly the thrill of a lifetime for her. The band was put together 1 hr before the show. It took them awhile to warm up but they did a wonderful job once they found a groove, Sophie was not in the same league as the others but she performed wonderfully and was received warmly. I was in the front row and had a great time. Nothin' like live music.
 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

Orlando, Florida USA

Post Number: 1296
Registered: Dec-03
I raise my glass in a heart felt toast to all the "Old Dogs" who post on this thread. We have come far, and hopefully the journey will continue for a long time to come. My sincere respect and love to all you guys......and GALS, for the knowledge, laughs, and friendship this epic thread has brought. Cheers!
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 549
Registered: Mar-04
Cheers Rick. Cheers everyone.
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 707
Registered: Feb-04
"when you listen to the MTT SFSO Mahler on SACD, do you choose surround, or two-channel stereo?"

I usually listen to it in 2-channel. There is minimal use of the rear channel, mainly to reproduce hall reflections to create the acoutical space of Davies Hall, I think. At the concerts that were being recorded, there was an array of microphones above the stage with the ones in front pointed to the rear wall of the auditorium. I imagine those mikes are used to record the rear channel tracks.

"who is pressing all of these new LPs of which you speak?"

You can group the LP issuers into two major groups: the indepedent and major labels for the youth market (rock, alterternative, hip-hop) and the audiophile labels reissuing jazz, classical, and classic rock for an older market. The hip indepedent labels issue LPs for the prestige and a general love of vinyl. There is little or no profit in it. Often the vinyl version of the album is priced less than the CD, even though the cost of producing an LP is significantly more than a CD. Sony, Geffen and some of the other major labels try to keep up with the "cool" factor by releasing some of their titles on vinyl. It is the "hip, young punks" that have led the vinyl revival--just another sign of a generation embracing something rejected by the previous generation. BTW, the young punks seemed to have rejected SACD and DVD-A. It's vinyl and downloads for them.

The second group of LP issuers are audiophile labels that mainly reissue classic albums from the past, usually using the original master tapes. A lot of the RCA Living Stereo, Mercury Living Presence, Decca, Blue Note, Prestige, Riverside titles have been reissued on these labels. I was listening to a reissue of Art Pepper+11 the other day and it just stunned me how good the sound is. Unlike the previous group, these labels actually try to make money by selling LPs. They usually cost two to three times as much as the CD version. On the other hand, an original LP pressing of Art Pepper+11 sells for $200 to over $300 on Ebay.
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 708
Registered: Feb-04
Yes, yes, yes. Cheers, Rick, Sem, Art et al.

Jan, thanks for the post on Bill Evans' VV recordings on Friday.
 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 338
Registered: Jan-05
Art,

I think music servers are the next big thing (more so than any of the current formats such as SACD/Blu-Ray/HD-DVD). From what I've read, the current music servers are a disappointment (and very expensive as well) - most folks could probably build a better one themselves using existing computers. The main problem right now (at least for "audiophiles") is the quality of the interface from the computer to the audio equipment. As more equipment is introduced, that will eliminated as a barrier.

The theory that the main problem with digital is the silver discs is resonating with me. This is one reason why I don't intend to purchase any more disc players - whether it be redbook, blu-ray or whatever - until I see where the technology takes us. In the immediate future, I will purchase either a Squeezebox or a USB DAC (such as Scott Nixon's Tube DAC - http://www.scott-nixon.com/dac.htm ) to interface the computer to the stereo.

John,

If there were a contest of how much equipment has been bought as a result of this thread and its subsidiaries, I think MR and I would probably win. :-)

Lar,

I think I'm going to send the Orbs back....but, I'm right up against the return deadline - hopefully, they won't be too strict in their enforcement of that. I liked the Orbs but, ultimately, I don't think they are so superior to the Energy to justify spending $750 if I don't have to and, having the Energy available, I don't have to - just need to find a solution for the rear surrounds.

2C,
You have every reason to wonder about the "coincidental nature" of the cheney comments followed by the Admin suggestion to close this thread. Be afraid, be very afraid.

Jan,
Is the "tracking force guage" that little B&O stick thingy? If so, yes, I have it. Once again, Mr. Dual has frightened me.

Old Dogs, I am feeling a little restless about my audio system. Like maybe I'd like to try something different. Like a SET amp and single-driver speakers. At a minimum, I'm going to try out some single-driver speakers but, not certain about the amp - unless I decided to get reckless about spending money - not that I've ever done that before.




 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 339
Registered: Jan-05
Wow! Looks like a lot of posting happened while I was catching up. Cheers Rick! Cheers Sem! Cheers 2C! Cheers Old Dogs!

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3930
Registered: Dec-03
Ah, we are back in our stride, I see!

Thanks for recent comments, all.

Larry;- the smiley was a surprise I typed ":" followed by ")".

Hey, isn't a "platter" the table itself, that is, the round thing with a hole in the middle, and which you put the record on....?

Art;- "There are those who believe that if you can't measure it, it musn't exist. "

We've seen a lot of that point of view. But I agree with you. We experience things. Not all of what we experience has been measured, or can be, with present technology. What the future holds; who knows?

To Art and 2c;- new, fresh, "classical" LPs are almost non-existent, at least over here.

Thanks, all: MR, 2c, SM, Lar, Jan, Rick, Sem, Art. Not to exclude recent contributors, such as Don, Nuck, Berny.

Sometime, take look at the first archived thread. From that time, we seem to have lost KEGGER and Ben James.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 2773
Registered: Feb-05
Kegger's over at AudioKarma if you wish to say hello. Cheers to all!
 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

Orlando, Florida USA

Post Number: 1297
Registered: Dec-03
SM,

Good to hear from you. Not to get off topic, but I have spent enough time and experimented to the point where I know that an SET and single driver speakers are the only way to go. I will continue on TUBE TALK on this subject, as I would like Jan's and others input.
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 275
Registered: Nov-05
Yes SM, in a way I guess I have spent money on audio because of this forum. It began with John A's relentless barracking for DVD-A, and I thank him for his efforts. While I still think the hi-res formats are superior, I believe, unless you have top notch high end gear, that the surround versions (obviously referring to good recordings) offer the most dynamic sound. Because of my interest in those formats, my cd collection had been for the most part ignored for quite some time and when I decided to hear - other than just for backgound music - some of my older recordings again, there was for me an obvious degregation in sound quality. I auditioned the NAD integrated amps to find improvement for stereo performance from the Marantz receiver. Even after acquiring the NAD pre and power amps, I still felt the cd performance was not what it could be even with the Denon 2900 and Marantz 4300 changer, so I tried the NAD 542 cdp and found considerable improvement. Though many might question the benefits in terms of the money spent, I find my listening time is now spread more evenly between hi-res and redbook. Everything we purchased has now become just part of the furniture and the music is a much more enjoyable pastime rather than listening while wondering how to make it more so.

Long live the Old Dogs!

 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 341
Registered: Jan-05
Rick,

I haven't kept up with Tube Talk but will try to get reaquainted with it. What I have in mind is Don Garber's Fi X 2A3 amp and a pair of Horn speakers from The Horn Shoppe. The only problem is I may have to sell the MA6200 to do it and I'm torn about that.

John,

Check out what this chap from AudioKarma did (maybe you won't need to get an SACD player after all). Note, his speakers Quad 63 (if my recall is correct that's what you have, right?):

Good morning. For the past couple of months or so, I've been experimenting with Apple lossless files via iTunes as my primary signal source with surprisngly good results. Bought an old Mac Cube (using Tiger OS 10.4.1) off ebay for a couple of hundred bucks because it's fanless/noiseless. Run usb out to an Edirol UA-5 (using the Tiger drivers, 2.1.0) set at "96 kHz play" (front rotary dial) and switched to "advanced" (back-side switch). The s/pdif output of the UA-5 goes into the digital input of a TacT 2.0 room correction device (BTW, the TacT, which shows input signal frequency, shows the Edirol signal as 96 kHz, which leads me to wonder if the Tiger Core Audio is upsampling the 44.1 files). The TacT s/pdif out runs into an outboard ack! dac, which is connected to a tubed Melos preamp and thence to a Transcendent Sound OTL amp. Speakers are Quad 63's. This has proven to be the most enjoyabily listenable setup that I've had in some time. In fact, I've not used any cd transport for redbook cd files in over six weeks. I'm still giving it some time to make sure, but it's increasingly likely that my cd transport days are over. There's a thirty buck remote for the Mac that lets me manage/play the iTunes files from my listening spot, which is an added convenience. Bottom line: the $220 Mac Cube plus the $100 Edirol UA-5 (ebay also) seems to completely smash the performance I was getting from my (fully broken-in) Sony DVP9000ES. That's my 2 cents.

Speaking of SACD....I've been listening to Miles Davis "In A Silent Way" on SACD all afternoon. Mesmermizing. I think I'm currently on the 4th spin of it today. Too bad, it's playing through the HT system instead of the MA6200.

p.s. John, if you ever need to make an unsmiley face, it is ":" followed by "("

:-)

 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 342
Registered: Jan-05
Hey MR,

For me, the surround aspect is not an issue any more. For the past year, I've listened to the hi-resolution in 2 channel and have been quite happy with it. However, since I setup a new HT system (due to buying an HDTV), I moved the Denon to the HT system to use as a source for movies. This means I now must listen to hi-rez through the HT system which is clearly inferior to my music system (but still very listenable). FYI: logistical and aesthetical reasons prevent me from combining the two systems. I guess one side benefit of moving the Denon to the HT is I can listen in surround if I choose to do so.

So, the dilemma is now addressing the "source" needs for the music system. For now, I'm using my NAD c541i CDP - which I've come to realize has a more pleasing presentation than the Denon's redbook. In fact, an audition of some speakers in the HT system revealed how much I didn't like Denon's redbook performance - which I discussed with Larry a couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure why this wasn't more exposed when the Denon was in the Mac/Maggie system.

In addition to moving the equipment around, Jan threw an interesting wrench into the situation by mentioning the dirt cheap T-Amp which led me to finding out more about those (as well as modded audiophile versions) which then led me to learning about modded Squeezebox which led to learning about USB DAC's. In the midst of all that, I got intrigued by single-driver, high efficiency speakers (since the T-Amps are low watt) and, in the course of that, I got hooked into the idea of a SET amp.

Then, if that weren't enough, I'm trying to overcome my fear of Mr. Dual.

At this point, I'm not sure what will happen. I do know I'm in the process of ripping all my CD's in Apple Lossless format to be used as part of a "music server". I do know that I will find an audiophile solution to interface the computer to the music system. I do know that I will audition single-driver speakers. What happens beyond those points is still in the air and will be determined by finances and the strength of my attachment to Mac.


 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

Orlando, Florida USA

Post Number: 1299
Registered: Dec-03
SM,

I have heard good things regarding the Fi SET. I am leaning towards the Sun Audio integrated or the Almarro integrated. I have seen the speakers from the Horn Shoppe, and read some reviews. If you are considering those you should check out the Lowthers. Go to www.lowtherusa.com
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 276
Registered: Nov-05
SM

I'm glad you're getting something from this music server/ipod type of 'nu teknolo gee' but it is really of no use to me in our present circumstances. As for the SET's I had a quick looksee at the FiX2A3 amp on TNT Audio and it certainly gets the right things said about it. Having a quick read of your post on " Buy this amplifier" I get the feeling that you really do think something is amiss with your present system. These feelings most likely don't appear for no reason so a dose of upgraditis might be in order for you, but I also think one needs to be careful. As a person who has gone through a few audio changes recently it might, and I do stress might, be that once you get used to certain sound you get an itch to find another. So another upgrade may lead to another then another and so on. As I said earlier, I am comfortabple with our system at present and after reading here and elsewhere, my little urge to throw a turntable into the mix was rather negated by the fuss associated with playing vinyl. One day perhaps, but if I were to upgrade again it would most likely be an even better cdp like Shanling, Arcam, Musical Fidelity or similar pedigree, but I am very content right now with the status quo.

And Rick,

It seems you are not content also. Has the Orlando humidity altered your enjoyment of Spendor/Jolida pairing?
 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

Orlando, Florida USA

Post Number: 1300
Registered: Dec-03
Rantz,

It's great to hear from you mate. The Jolida/Spendor pairing is sounding better than ever. I think I have found the best NOS tubes for my taste. I switch between the Jolida and the Sophia Electric "Baby". 10 watts of the sweetest top end I have ever heard from any amp I have ever owned or listened to. I had the stock caps replaced with NOS oil in paper, and this is one sweet sounding amp.

However..................the following is just my opinion. ANYONE who spends much time with tubes, will sooner or later discover the SET amp sound. Once that sound gets locked in your memory, it's all over. Nothing will ever sound as good again. The downside is the power. Generally between 2-8 watts. This is where single driver speakers or horns come in to play.

You have been warned.....do not listen to an SET amp!!!!! LOL!
 

Silver Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 277
Registered: Nov-05
Rick

Warning heeded my friend. I think I'd better make a committment to never again listening to anything above and beyond what I have now. More than anything else I want to keep Mrs Rantz in the system.

:-)

It sure is handy having email notifications working again - gives me a reason to down tools for a couple of minutes or so.

 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 344
Registered: Jan-05
MR,

I don't know if I believe something is amiss in my system or if I'm being influenced by all the reading I've been doing (part of Jan's point on Tube Talk, if my interpretation is accurate). I do know that I've long considered my source to be a concern as a year or so ago I was looking into external DAC's to take the bite off CD's. A couple of months ago I was even thinking of getting a tube CDP (Eastern Electric Minimax). However, I do believe a relatively inexpensive way to improve the redbook experience is to make lossless (NOT mp3's) copies of CD's using error correction (see earlier links to info about this) and playing back through a quality interface to the audio system. Because of the promise in this area, I plan to hold off on purchases of source equipment for the time being.

Not that I'm trying to convert you, MR, but, to stay true to the thread title "Teaching an old dog new tricks...", well, this is definitely a new trick wouldn't you say? :-)

In addition to the music server as source, I'm intrigued by other audio concepts - most of which is not new technology but rather old concepts and ideas getting more attention - concepts that are new to me. One is the idea of simplifying the signal path by eliminating things like cross-overs in speakers. For whatever reason, the ideas behind single-driver speakers seem so logical to me. Maybe the listening experience will prove otherwise but, it is something I want to find out about. This is probably first priority for me, more so, than changing amps.

Rick,

Thanks for the suggestions. I've read about the Lowther speakers before but haven't felt drawn to seeking them out. The Horns, on the other hand, do intrigue me - and, I may have some listening opportunities, locally, as I think there are at least two owners nearby. I have to figure out a way to approach them for a listen-to without raising the ire of their wives. LOL. At the worst, the "factory" is only a couple of hours away so I should be able to get a listen there - but, how important is that considering the characteristics of my listening room and equipment might garner a completely different experience? Hmmmm...

The Almarro amp looks cool and appears to be getting outstanding reviews (the first Sun Audio review I saw was negative - a rarity in the world of hi-fi it seems). The A205A is in the price range I feel comfortable with as an entry point and is actually a little less than the Fi amp I'm considering. Which model are you considering?

 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 345
Registered: Jan-05
Oh yeah, the other concern about making the trip to the Horn "factory" is the owner is a gun-toting Republican. If I go there I'll have to keep my political opinions to myself - unless, of course, I decide to take a gun with me to even the playing field. LOL.

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