Suggestions for a New Audio system for 6K$
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Anonymous | I have an old Yamaha system with Bose speakers. I recently bought a Sony Large screen TV and want to buy a new audio system for Home theater as well as a Music (We don't usually listen to classical music). I need some suggestions on how to make the best use of about a $5K to $6K budget. House with tall ceilings. Dimension of room: 20ft wide, 40 ft long, 25 ft high. I am seeking suggestions / opinions on a system with: a. Denon 3805 (~$700)(Should I pay additional $500 for a 3806?) b. Martin Logan Clarity (~$2800)(Front + Surround system) or should I buy the Mosaic at a lower price? c. Martin Logan Vignette ($650$)(or Fresco Front + Center + Surround. Any other suggestions? d. Dr. Hsu (Subwoofer) VTF 3 MK2.(~700). Do I need to buy their active filter option at (~$100)and cables? Is the above a good match? What cables are recommended? I am a beginner and open to all suggestions. I would like to have it ready for the New Year's Party. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. |
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Shekhar. Unregistered guest | I had very similar budget. And I also was thinking of those 2 receivers. I had done lot of research.. about 3-4 weeks. I got 3806. Coz, they also sounded little better than 3805. They are 10 W/channel more. I thought I would go with latest. You can bargain and get better deal.. I also looked at Martin Logans (at Magnolia Hi Fi), but I liked Vienna Acoustics Bach more. They sounded much smoother and sweet, i thought you could listen to them for long time. Even if you crank up voice, they didn't become harsh on ears.. Movies are great with it as well. M.L. are also good.. But I preferred Vienna.. And very happy with it. Check reviews on audioreview.com I am still finalzing on Sub but I have got Def Tech Supercube III. I might go for Velodyn, not sure.. I got Def Tech Pro monitor 100 for back, else the whole budget was really becoming high. So far, they sound a good match.. You can check my thread on the same page about asking about different rears.. Btw, I bought this system 7-8 days back. Are you buying from Magnolia as well? Let me know if any questions. -Shekhar. |
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Anonymous | Shekar, Did you check out / eliminate the Schonberg series also before you decided on VA Bach? |
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Anonymous | The sales rep mentioned that the HDMI feature does not work well with Denon 3806. True or was he trying to push the discontinued 3805? The Velodyne DLS 1000 sounded good, but the reviews for HSU VTF 3MK2 seems better in the forums. |
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Shekhar. Unregistered guest | I haven't tried HDMI switching since by Sony HD TV has 2 HDMI. Thats not really what got me into 3806. I like that it's 10W more and sounded better. But anyway, these Both receivers are good. I did not try Schonberg. But frankly, I was so happy with Viennas I didnt want to confuse myself more.  Plus they had great reviews. Everyone agrees it has a very good craftmanship.. How much is DLS100 and HSU VFF 3MK2 ? Which store ? or internet ? I think I want to spend around 800 for sub.. I try not to go much. But at the sametime I want to make sure they are tight and FAST responsive for Music.. -Shekhar. |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 223 Registered: Dec-03 | Here is a thread from the Martin Logan club on the Mosaic vs. Clarity. I personally didn't think the Clarity was worth the price bump. You might also check out the Ascent i as they are being closed out. Here is another thread about a person looking to put together a system very similar and went with Denon, Mosaics and Fresco? |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 594 Registered: Apr-05 | "The sales rep mentioned that the HDMI feature does not work well with Denon 3806. True or was he trying to push the discontinued 3805? " The latter |
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Anonymous | Thanks for the thread. Between Denon 3806 and a Rotel RB1077 which is better and at what price difference? Is Ascenti an electrostatic version? Price Range? Info is not in ML website. I am open to suggestions and not necessarily fixed on ML if there are better ones at a similar price range for Front / Center / Surrounds On Subs, I need suggestions on the top two among Hsu-VTF3 MK2 / RelQ150E / ML Grotto / ML Dynamo / Velodyne. I am looking for a 700$ to 1000$ price range. |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 224 Registered: Dec-03 | Denon vs. Rotel is probably a matter of sound. Rotel would have more power and Denon would be more detailed (what people who like it say) or bright (what people who don't like it say). Ascent i is here: List is $4,300 but I think it is being sold at about $2,800 now which is a bit more than the Clarity but it should be better than the Clarity. It also goes pretty low so a subwoofer is not a necessity unless you like to rattle windows. Both the Clarity and the Ascent i are stats. If you are looking at stats, I would tell you to go the Rotel route rather than the Denon. Not necessarily so for the Mosaic (which is planar and not a stat). On the subs, that is going to be your preference as they are all pretty good. If you need to go cheaper, PSB Subsonic 5 is pretty good too and has been given some "awards". eg http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0604/psbsubsonic5i.htm You might also check out the review section of ecoustics on the tab at the top of the page. Pretty good links to reviews. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 840 Registered: Dec-04 | At thet price, Anon, yes, the Rotel will deliver power in spades, but you might be looking at Bryston 5's. Solid detailed power, but demanding for speakers. If you are spending these bucks, a good dealer will let yu take the pieces home. Try them there, and let us know! Peace |
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New member Username: Menace0811Post Number: 2 Registered: Dec-05 | I just recently had my installers put in a VA system for a very demanding client. However I will tell you that sound is very different for every listener. VA mozart grands with the maestro center and waltz rears sound so good at the price point that I do find it hard to recommend anything else. Big differences will probably come from the sub. I used a Rel 201 and wow was I presently surprised. We also used a denon 3806 because it came with the mic for its autosetup, we don't use it but the client might someday want to. The hdmi has been a problem for cable and sat. setups so we tend to stick with the comp cables for that part. If we do use the receiver for video switching we hook the dvd with hdmi and the tv box with comp. The Denon will send everything up to the tv threw hdmi which makes install easier. Hope this helps. Oh I thank everyone who posts here. I've been reading for a long time and it helps to have such a vast amount of info to help my clients with difficult decisions. |
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Anonymous | Again, thank you for all the input. Tweeter store I went to did not have Ascent-i. I heard the Grotto but could not make a decision as I am yet to hear other suggested subs. One Home Theater store had a Rotel RSX1056 on sale. It is a 75x5, 7.1. Is this better value than a Denon 3805 /3806 to meet the my needs? The sales rep suggested Krell and McIntosh but I guess these are far out of my budget range. Jonathan, I will look for other stores that may carry Accent-i. What Center / rear speakers should I look for with it? I still don't know which store in Houston (where I live) carries Vienna Acoustics. |
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Bronze Member Username: PlatoWoodbury, NJ Post Number: 29 Registered: Oct-05 | Anon, the ML are a very good choice. I would go for the Ascent i as you might get a very good price since they are being discontinued. I have them and don't need a sub. If you feel the need for one, try getting a Martin Logan sub or a Velodyne, nothing else. I would not get a Denon with martin logans. Rotel seems more appropriate. The 1056 will not have enonugh power to drive the Ascent i properly. I would go with separate processor and amp. Rotel 1075 or even better 1095 is what you need to properly drive the ascent i. Or, if you like tubes, a SUnfire GrandCinema, but that is more expensive. Martin logans will not come to life without good amplification. Cablewise, see what's left in your budget. I have a combination of MIT terminator and Wireworld Oasis and like it. Good luck! |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 225 Registered: Dec-03 | Anon, as my above threads show, I pretty much agree with Max Roma. As for the center speaker, that is part of the rabbithole you go down when you buy more expensive equipment. Most ML questions can be answered in the ML forum. Here is one thread on the center speaker for the Ascents: The center I use with the Montages I have is the Fresco. That would be a "cheaper" and probably less satisfying blend but the next best thing if you can't pony up for the cinema or theater center. You might best start with the Ascent and good separates as Max noted above. The Ascents go to 35 so you won't be wanting in the bass area. Then you could add as you need to: Center speaker then surrounds: For surrounds, perhaps something like the Vignette: |
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Anonymous | I checked all local stores for Ascent i. They are all sold. Not one available in all of TX. I also found Mozart from VA very good. There is one dealer and he played it with a Klipsch sub RSW 12 which also seemed good. The Mozart is 2800$ per pair, Maestro center is some 1300, Waltz rear is $1400 a pair. The sub is about 1000$. Add a Rotel and this will take it to above my 6K$ budget. |
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Anonymous | Any opinions on a 7.1 system with: FRONT- MARTIN LOGAN ASCENT IB SUB WOOFER - HSU VTF3 MK2 CENTER SURROUND - HSU VENTRILOQUIST REAR - BOSE ACOUSTIMASS III RECIEVER - OUTLAW AVR1070 |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 646 Registered: Apr-05 | Match Martin Logan with Bose Acoustimass? Are you kidding? What would you hope to get out of those little cubes? |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 472 Registered: Feb-05 | I am one of the resident ML guys on the forum, so I'll try to be of some assistance. You will have a hard time finding the Ascent i any more because said model has been discontinued and has been replaced by the vantage, a much superior model with better stat-woofer intergration, and a powered bass section. you really want more power than a reciever is capable of putting out for electrostatic speakers, but if you can go the route of seperates, you will be rewarded. MartinLogan have been a favorite of mine for a long time, and will continue to be. The holography of the image is positivly intoxicating. I used to own a pair, but have gone the route of magnepan. I'll probably wander back over to ML in the future. If you are looking at recievers powering ML speakers, the mosaic and fresco (and therefore probably the montage and vignette) were designed with the denon line in mind. I am a stat and planar person, but also have a fondness for paradigm speakers as well, so don't rule out the Paradigm reference and signature lines if you have that kind of budget. IMHO, the clarity is one of my alltime favorite ML speakers. It is well worth the price of admission. I would take it over the aeon i |
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Anonymous | Thanks Stof & Gavin. In my price range the options were ML Clarity and VA Mozart. When I got the option to buy the last pair of Ascent-i 's available in Texas, at the price of Clarity, I ordered them. They have a 30 day return policy at the Tweeter store. I am now kind'a concerned about the support from the manufacturer on a discontinued product. I ordered HSU VTF3 MK2 again based on reviews in this forum for Subs under $1000. The HSU Ventriloquist set is the center and a part of the home theater system till I invest in the expensive centers of ML. The Bose acoustimass is just salvaging from my existing system for use as rear speakers to postpone investment in good rear speaker. But as always, I am open to suggestions. I wanted to go with Denon 3806, but ordered a OUTLAW AVR1070 based on recommendations in this forum. |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 226 Registered: Dec-03 | Congrats on finding the Ascent i. With the 30 day you will have plenty of time to check them out. The rear surrounds are not as big a deal because they don't actually carry the weight. Maybe they can let you have a Fresco on a trial basis too as it would be a less expensive way of handling the center. I think you will be very happy with your purchases. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 474 Registered: Feb-05 | the Ascent i is an amazing speaker, but honestly requires quite a bit more power than the AVR1070 is capable of putting out. A good 100 to 150 watts of clean power for listening is a must with these speakers, and thats into 8 ohms, not even touching the 4 ohm load, which would be even more. If you can keep the Ascents, by all means do it, but I would reccomend going the way of outlaw monoblocks. The model 2200 is $325 each, and comes in package deals. It will provide you with more than enough power to drive those glorious speakers, delving into 300 watts at 4 ohms. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4761 Registered: Dec-03 | I wouldn't worry too much about getting support for your ML's. The manufacturer will not let you down, I've had friends that are just lauding support for their older MLs. |
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Anonymous | Thank you John, Gavin, Berny. I have already paid in full for the Ascent-i and am awaiting delivery. Instead of AVR 1070, what Tuner, Preamp, amp combo do you suggest? OR Should I keep the keep the AVR1070 and add 2 monoblocks to drive the ascent-i's? OR Change brands to another brand such as Marantz / Bryston that seems to be quite popular in reading the reviews? (I cannot listen to some of these as there are no dealers in my city). |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 475 Registered: Feb-05 | I would keep the AVR 1070 and add 2 of the outlaw model 2200 monoblocks for your mains if the reciever can support it. Contact outlaw and see what they say. That is my best suggestion. PS: anything you purchase from tweeter carries a 30 day money back guarentee. But, you are better off with scripts (electrostatic after all) as surrounds instead of frescos IMHO if you can swing the difference ESPECIALLY if you are into multichannel music. |
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Anonymous | The Ventriloquist from HSU is now my center speaker. I am not sure if I should change that to the ML Centers. I am looking at cost vs performance improvement. The Ascents and HSU Sub seem to be working well together now. But I have not had time to setup the Video part yet (Joined a new job). |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 227 Registered: Dec-03 | Anon: would love to hear a report on how you like the Ascents. |
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Anonymous | Jon, I have setup the audio system with the CD, Tape deck, reciever and the speakers. My Home Theater is not setup yet. The DVD and video connected thrugh the Outlaw don't seem to work in the first attempt. I need to find some time to tweak it and that has become difficult in my new sales management job. FRONT- MARTIN LOGAN ASCENT IB SUB WOOFER - HSU VTF3 MK2 CENTER SURROUND - HSU VENTRILOQUIST REAR - BOSE ACOUSTIMASS III RECIEVER - OUTLAW AVR1070 The HSU system on it own did not meet my expectations. Although I did not have much expectations for the ventriloquist, even the sub seemed unimpressive. The Bose seems to be OK as a rear speaker, but I feel that I will be able to make a better judgement after I use the system as a Home Theater system. I wanted to return the HSU Sub and Ventriloquist, and after the huge Martin Logan (5 and 1/2 feet) speakers came in, my wife was terribly upset about how it would blend in to the living room (I have a fair amount of space) as these just seemed abnormal. I was brave enough to try it out inspite of the resistance. The Martin Logan Ascents made a huge difference. Suddenly the HSU Subs seemed to work well after some tweaking. The Ventriloquist Center seemed to sound much better (Athough I feel that it is too bright). I cannot assess the impact of Bose rear yet. After I rearranged the furniture, all speakers are well hidden, except for the MLs which just cannot be hidden. However my wife now loves the music, the clarity of the MLs, the bass of the HSU subs. These are the only ones that seem to matter for music. I know I will need to replace the center as it is too bright. I also will need to decide on the rear speakers, but I am already at my budget and will seek suggestions in this forum. So none of the ML/ HSU/ Outlaw will be returned, They are all here to stay and enhanced. I will update once I find some time for setting up the HT. I have one question for the forum. The outlaw can drive either 4Ohm / 8ohm speakers with a switch. My speakers connected are a combination of both. Would this be a technical problem? Any suggestions on what I should do? |
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Silver Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 231 Registered: Jun-05 | Talk to the Tech Service guys at Outlaw... they know their products inside and out and will give you the best, most accurate advice available. |
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