Help with upgrading my really bad receiver...

 

New member
Username: Fightinchunk

Atlanta, GA US

Post Number: 1
Registered: Aug-05
hey, i plan on upgrading my crappy receiver...atleast i think it's crappy. It's a panasonic sa ht275 80 wattsx5. I went to circuit city today just to look at what I was looking at, and i saw a high current amp that looked pretty good. It was a onkyo receiver, 6 channels, i think it was 65watts per channel. I understand that high current amps sends a stronger signal, thus being able to create a clearer and louder sound with the same amoutn of wattage a regular non high current amp(please feel free to tear me apart with my incredibly wrong explanation of a high current amp). In any case i know that high current amps are just plain better, yet more expensive.

the problem now is that i can't determine an amp that is high current or not without it telling me in the description. My main problem is when i saw this onkyo receiver online at amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0009VLF0Y) I can't tell if it's a decent high current 5.1 receiver, or if it's an overpriced underpowered onkyo amp that's not high current. i just want to determine between the two from the specs. i would appreciate any help thanks!
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 1436
Registered: Feb-05
Don't buy Onkyo. That's the best advice I can give you.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4913
Registered: May-04

That's the best advice you can give him, Art?
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 1444
Registered: Feb-05
Relative to his post and without getting into a bunch of details about big box store junk yes it is. I really don't enjoy talking about Onkyo and Sony receivers. I hope folks avoid them but other than that I have better things to do than discuss them.

Remember Jan this is supposed to be about our hobby. That means I can enjoy it how I choose. I am not home 24/7 posting on this site so I want the discretion to pick and choose which posts I want to give lengthier responses to. Is that clear or would you like me to take a day off from work to come up with something more profound. By the way, where is your advice or did you just come here to taunt.
 

nout
Unregistered guest
Don't buy Onkyo. That's the best advice I can give you.

If you translate this sentence you'll get something like "Buy NAD. That's the best advice I can give you." :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 1445
Registered: Feb-05
Or buy something other than Onkyo. I usually advise folks on a budget to listen to Marantz, HK or Denon. Even Yamaha stands head and shoulders above Onkyo and Sony.
 

nout
Unregistered guest
Onkyo and Sony aren't brands I'll come up with either, because I haven't any experience with those brands and mainly because the serious Hifi-dealers in my area do not sell them...i'll have to go to some big electronics store for these brands (without any good customer service or whatsoever)
But the opinions in Europe about Sony and Onkyo are obviously more positive than those in the US, or at least from what I've read on American forums.
Especially German magazines are generally favourable towards Onkyo and Sony.
Maybe the US imports different types? I know that many high-end products from Sony aren't imported in the US, just like many beautiful Marantz products are only available in Japan.

I therefore wouldn't count Sony or Onkyo out, but Denon, NAD, Marantz and HK are indeed brands I would recommend.


 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4914
Registered: May-04


Ease up, Art
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 1447
Registered: Feb-05
Okay
 

Unregistered guest
I have to expose my ignorance here. My CD changer, a Pioneer product has died. I'm glad it's dead because I hate the magazine type cd stacker or holder or whatever it's called. One of the points of confusion I have is this: what does "digital optical" vs "line out (RCA)" vs "coaxial....." mean? My receiver, also Pioneer, is pretty old. At least 15yrs. It works just fine. Any info would be appreciated. Jack
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe_c

Oakwood, Ga

Post Number: 877
Registered: Mar-05
Jack, it would be nice of you to start your own thread instead of hi-jacking someone else's.
 

New member
Username: Fightinchunk

Atlanta, GA US

Post Number: 2
Registered: Aug-05
well, i guess im lookin at HK now, but i still need my original question answered. How can i tell by looking at the spec sheets of a speaker if it is high current or not.

hey art appreciate the advice, but why is onkyo so bad? can't be as bad as the reciever i have now. I've heard only good things about it. And about sony. i know they don't make good speakers, but i've always thought they were excellent at making electronics. any reasons why they arn't as good as they're supposed to be?
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 1450
Registered: Feb-05
Samuel both Sony and Onkyo fudge their numbers to make their gear look better than it is. I will not go into why they are as bad as they are because it's a long story.

Sony still makes very good TV's and is at the forefront of R&D in the industry. That occasionally translates into good buys for us. For example when SACD first became a multi channel format Sony released some very good budget SACD players. Since then the quality has fallen precipitously.

I'm glad you are looking at HK.

HK
Marantz
Denon

Looking at spec sheets doesn't always give you the whole story. You need to do more research. Currently the brands I have recommended have the best combination of power and features at a budget price.
 

New member
Username: Fightinchunk

Atlanta, GA US

Post Number: 3
Registered: Aug-05
so what is the best cheapest high current amplifier on the market right now?
 

New member
Username: Fightinchunk

Atlanta, GA US

Post Number: 4
Registered: Aug-05
does the receiver manufacturer pretty much have to tell you that their receiver is high current? I mean, can i tell if a receiver is high current by a spec number/rating, or will the manufacurer have to pretty much say that there is high current circuitry or whatever in the receiver. My problem is that circuit city doesn't specify wheter the Onkyo TX-SR303 is high current or not. I just want to know if this is just a regular amp with a low wattage rating or if it's actually a high current amp, but circuit city decided to be retarded and not write that pretty important peice of info in the advertisment. i know this thread shouldn't have gone to this length("just take the HK/Marantz/denon and get it over with" ...), but im just trying to learn.
 

New member
Username: Stevizard

Indianapolis, Indiana USA

Post Number: 10
Registered: Aug-05
Samuel, you aroused my curiosity. Here's what I found:

A "high-current" amp can deliver power to low impedance speakers without clipping or going into protection-mode and shutting down.

You can identify a high-current amp by looking at its power ratings. Ideally, an amp rated at 250 watts @ 8 ohms should deliver 500 watts at 4 ohms (since resistance or load has been cut in half, its power should double). Unfortunately, this doesn't usually hold true. In real life, a high current amp with 250 watts @ 8 ohms would probably give you about 425 watts at 4 ohms. However, the closer the amp comes to delivering the "ideal" wattage, the better it is.


HIGH-VOLTAGE VS. HIGH-CURRENT

High-voltage amps are better suited to high impedance (8 ohms & up) speakers.

High-current amp are better suited to low impedance (6 ohms and lower) speakers. High current amps may sound thin and harsh when driving high impedance loads.

So, the impedance of your speakers should help you determine the type of amp you need. Low impedance speakers want a high-current amp. High impedance speakers want a high-voltage amp.

Well, hope this helps. Incidentally, you might want to take a look at the Sherwood Newcastle A-965 and P-965, which are designed for low-impedance loads. If you're looking for a decent AVR, you might like the Sherwood Newcastle R-965. Take a look here http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_a965.html

At only $1499.00 its not a bad deal.

 

Silver Member
Username: Gman

Mt. Pleasant, SC

Post Number: 700
Registered: Dec-03
The type of receiver you buy will depend greatly on your budget, room size, the speakers you own (or the speakers you will buy), the acoustic characteristics of the room (live--lots of hard surfaces, or dead--lots of carpets/rugs, drapes, etc.)

If you have a small room (10' x 15')and reasonably efficient 6 or 8 ohm speakers I wouldn't get terribly hung up on whether the receiver is high amp or not. If it can drive the speakers without clipping it becomes a non-issue. Or if it only clips under the most severe musical transients, then you will have to make a decision on whether paying considerably more for a more robust power envelope is worth the very rare times that clipping or distortion occur.

You need to determine your system budget, room size, and what kind of speakers you want or have before anyone can give you intelligent advice on any brand particulars.
 

Silver Member
Username: Cheapskate

Post Number: 202
Registered: Mar-04
the two main bonuses of a "high current" amp are:

1. it won't blow up with a low impedence (4 ohm) load as it has the extra power needed to drive 4 ohms, which as mentioned, should be double the output of 8 ohms in a really well built amp.
2. that extra current gives your amp more power to CONTROL your speakers. it won't play any louder, but it will be less "sloppy"

i HAVE TO jump in yet again and defend onkyo!

sorry... i OWN an NAD dedicated 2 channel reciever that's roughly equivelent to my onkyo 5 channel DTS reciever (once 20-25WPC is doubled for NAD 3dB headroom against 55WPC rated) and i HATE IT!

i have NHT super zero speakers that have soft domes, and the NAD sounds like PURE CRAP with them. it's so muffled and congested that it sounds like sleeping bags are draped over my zeros.

i bought a CHEAP $250 onkyo reciever to match my onkyo DVD player and was AMAZED at how much better this much maligned surround reciever sounded in STEREO MODE!

my treble instantly became clearer, faster and more extended. imaging improved dramatically. after that experience... i HATE NAD which sounds just like overly polite SONY recievers.

with particularly polite speakers (especially soft domes), notoriously bright japanese "mid-fi" brands like onkyo and denon (which is better specked, but uglier looking LOL) can breathe new life into speakers.

on the other hand though, they probably aren't the best choice for already bright sounding speakers (eg. metal domes)

my onkyo reciever is way too bright with my already bright mission M71s. it's a virtual headache begging for *gasp* tone control intervention. LOL

i bet the NAD would be a better match to tame the brightness. polite treble amp mellows bright treble speaker.

my point is that EACH reciever can be better than the other depending on the speakers used.

my onkyo totally STOMPS my NAD into the dirt 10 times over with my super zeros which are finally more open, but could stand even a little bit more treble still. i think anyone that outright dismisses onkyo is so full of crap it isn't even funny as they haven't actually LIVED with it as i have muffled butt NAD which isn't that reliable either! NOTHING has ever gone wrong with my onkyo while my NAD has a useless radio tuner display that has gotten WORSE along with a few other gripes.

onkyo is only junk if matched with bright speakers.

p.s. when i did an A/B comparison between my onkyo and a neighbor's 100 watt stereo sony in my room, the onkyo still came out on top.

to my ears (without a DIRECT side by side) NAD sound is really the same as sony... polite treble.

man do i hate that! i'd rather have polite bass!

you want my NAD... take it!
unless i eventually get 4 ohm maggies.
 

Silver Member
Username: Audioholic

Post Number: 106
Registered: Apr-05
Samuel< you said "How can i tell by looking at the spec sheets of a speaker if it is high current or not"
Makes no sense. Did you mean Amplifier perhaps?
ALL speakers demand current from amplifiers.
 

HKminded
Unregistered guest
not to switch topics, but i got a pair of 8 ohm speakers going into a Sony shelf system 6 ohm amp. is that bad for the speakers or amp?
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