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Who likes my experimental system?

 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 432
Registered: Feb-05
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The MTX speakers are on the floor and can't be seen. Although everything is mixed and matched it has great SQ surprisingly. My main system is 16 of the Yellow coned Sony speakers and a Behringer power amp.
 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 726
Registered: Mar-05
I'm sure Paul would love your system, heh heh!
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 435
Registered: Feb-05
Why is that? And who is Paul?
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3977
Registered: May-04


You got BluTak between all those speakers?
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 438
Registered: Feb-05
Nope, Velcro is holding them all in place, and anything you see on the surrounds, is rope calk.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 686
Registered: Feb-04
One question:

Why?

Okay, second question:

How does it all sound and image?
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 634
Registered: Feb-05
Are you sure that isn't Paul's bedroom system!
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 161
Registered: Feb-05
Geez! you must have one hell of a speaker switcher!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1939
Registered: Aug-04
Do they blow the clothes off the girlfriends?
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 688
Registered: Feb-04
Eric, I fear this gear plays all at the same time!
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 163
Registered: Feb-05
Peter, How in the heck does he run seven pairs of speakers on a single amp without a speaker selector.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 690
Registered: Feb-04
Well, I count 2 receivers and what looks like an integrated amp. Add a few A/B switches and you're there. Perhaps the Tape Out of the main one is going into inputs of the others.
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 165
Registered: Feb-05
What a nightmare!
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 691
Registered: Feb-04
Well... almost there...
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1940
Registered: Aug-04
TB.

Just to clarify: the clothes/girlfriend comment was in reference to the remake of the movie, "The Italian Job"

To answer your original question - I don't.

Sorry, but it's all just a wee bit too much.
I sure you don't sit in front of that wall of speakers to listen to music so I imagine you have just plonked them all on top of each other for an amusing photo - correct? Surely!

 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 168
Registered: Feb-05
Yes, MyRantz how could any cohesiveness come from that mountain of mismatched speakers?
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1941
Registered: Aug-04
Exactly Eric, it looks like a jumble sale.

 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 170
Registered: Feb-05
Yes a "jumble sale" is that what you Aussies call what we American's call a rummage or garage sale?
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 171
Registered: Feb-05
Or maybe a victim of the"white van" scam hehehe!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1942
Registered: Aug-04
Yep - garage or rummage sale. Funny how we Aussies tend to emulate you Americans - I was solicited by the "white van" guys a few back here also.
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 172
Registered: Feb-05
Geez! Those scammers are now worldwide?! Fortunately I have not seen them in my area, But I know a few cops in my neck of the woods and if we see them we will run them outta town.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 439
Registered: Feb-05
Ok, I actually DO sit in front of that wall of speakers. There are 3 receivers, a shelf system, and to be quite frank, the most upper pair of speakers isn't running at the moment. I accidently blew my Sherwood receiver. Also, it's not too much, it actually has good sound and imaging for being mixed and matched. No, this wasn't for an amusing photo! You can all be assured my name isn't Paul, and why are you comparing my system with his? Here's a few pictures of my dad's system from the 80's. It was featured in a stereo magazine published across the country. It was a 10000WPC system, and had 3 channels. He feels now that it had poor imaging, but then, it was quite the accomplishment, now there's a real man's system. Beats the pants off any Dolby blah blah blah crap.
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The first pic is the first two channels, and the second is a pic of the third with the grills on them. These speakers were all hand built by him, just so you know.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 440
Registered: Feb-05
Did you not note where I said EXPERIMENTAL, and I listed what my REAL system was? You people are blind lol. I thought I would get some intelligence coming from the car forum to here...guess not.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3978
Registered: May-04


Then you should leave.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 441
Registered: Feb-05
Hahaha geez people, don't take everything so seriously!
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 635
Registered: Feb-05
I don't think we did!
 

Silver Member
Username: Eramsey

South carolina United States

Post Number: 174
Registered: Feb-05
How the hell do you produce 10kW RMS in a home system anyway without the use of A LOT of amps?
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 446
Registered: Feb-05
Anyways, who is this Paul you keep insisting I am. What kind of a system does he have? Oh, MyRants, I like the play on words you have used for you name, however, there is nothing wrong using this as an experimental system, it happens to sound pretty good, the DJ speakers are a little overpowering, but other than that, it's not half bad. It's one of those things I use to impress the friends, until they see my REAL system...then they are just shocked.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 447
Registered: Feb-05
I don't know if it was RMS or MAX to be honest, but I know it was 10k per channel, and personally, I don't know how he did it, note all of those capacitors bundled together, I do know that they played a role in it. In the little cubby hole, there were a few McIntosh tube amps, one of which i think may have been a 240. Other than that I honestly couldn't tell you, but it's no lie. He is an honest genius when it comes to ANYTHING electronic. There is nothing he can't fix. He took my completely worthless Kenwood KR-6600 and restored it to near mint condition.
 

Gold Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 1096
Registered: Jan-05
Nice:-)

Heck, I only have one pair of front speakers.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 450
Registered: Feb-05
I don't know why I didn't mention this before, but the speakers clear at the bottom of each column, are speakers my dad built...those things have been around since the 80's...they sound great to this day.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 697
Registered: Feb-04
So TB, how do you get them all to play at the same time? Or do you?
 

Silver Member
Username: Dmwiley

Post Number: 752
Registered: Feb-05
Replacing the twin towers are you? Don't think you'll have to worry about terrorists.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 453
Registered: Feb-05
I get them all to play, except the two upper ones, due to my lack of my Sherwood receiver I blew up when testing subs. The 4 Sony's are running to my KR-6600, the hand built ones are running to my KR-2600, the 2 Pioneers are running to my KA-3500, my DJ speakers are running to the Aiwa Shelf system I plan to replace with a receiver soon, and the Realistics from the 80's that have been refoamed are running to a crappy 15W receiver I need to replace as well. The Realistics I don't run do to lack of SQ from receiver, and I need my Sherwood fixed so I can run my DJ's from them, and give the Aiwa speakers back to the Aiwa Shelf for the moment, until I get a new or vintage receiver capable of replacing them.
 

Silver Member
Username: Touche6784

Post Number: 380
Registered: Nov-04
wow what a waste of money and forum space. even your real system sounds like it is crap. with those 16 sony speakers you could have bought speakers that make more than just noise.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 461
Registered: Feb-05
See, you don't understand, those 16 Sony speakers, have a flat bass response. Sure, they don't have the greatest sound in the world, but when placed properly in nice acoustically friendly room they sound very nice running. I have the speakers in columns of 2 with the bottom speaker standing straight up and the speaker on top is upside down, otherwise known as "D'Appolito" configuration. Like I mentioned previously, I got this inspiration from my dad's system, where he uses the Advent AS2's, however, he suggested these speakers, as they are good for their price, due to my lacking of a constant income. Like I said, they aren't God's gift to audio, but they have a very rich sound for the price. They don't just make "noise." However, I can rattle things on the walls hehehe. And just for the record about making things in my house move, most rooms in my house are about 20' X 20' as well as the house being almost 200 yrs. old, with like 1/2 to 3/4 feet thick walls. What you're not getting here is that sure, I could have spent uber amounts of money on one pair of speakers, but that's not even worth talking about. "Hey guys, come see this pair of speakers I bought, they were $1k, and I could only afford one pair, but they sound awesome!" That's a bunch of BS in my opinion! Why pay THAT much for a pair of speakers, when I can pay equivalent for several pairs of good sounding speakers?
 

engine giver
Unregistered guest
Me no like your system
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 462
Registered: Feb-05
I don't care! This whole home audio forum is obsessed with surround sound. Obviously REAL home audio doesn't exist anymore. What kind of system do you people want? Something non-visible with no power? I could see your point if I said my system was a 800000W Panasonic shelf system from Wal-Mart, but it's not and your points make no sense. Obviously all of today's home audio, or surround, is based on specs, and not actual performance! Oh hey, that surround receiver puts out 350W! So you buy it because they say it does? I don't think so, you buy it and test each channel with a power meter! If it isn't up to par, then trash it! Let's put it this way, I run my KR-6600 to a power meter that measures up to 200W output. The KR-6600 is a 60WPC receiver, guess what? That receiver is underated! I have measured it, and far before it begins to clip, my speakers have already begun to distort, which tells me that it can put out more than what it says. Can today's surround stuff do that? I don't think so! That's of course we're talking H/K, but if we're talking like Paradigm and Warfedale, then sure, I agree those are VERY fine products, and most likely do what they say, and possibly more. But the problem is, who REALLY has the money for their products? Yea, sure, go jack up your credit to 100K, and be in debt for the rest of your life, I guess it's worth it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1960
Registered: Aug-04
I think "Dad" has a lot to answer for!

:-)

 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 463
Registered: Feb-05
What do you mean? You may not believe me, but he is a genius when it comes to everything electronic. He was offered a job to work for Goodyear Aerospace in the 80's to help build and design nuclear weaponry, but his morals against building destructive things to kill others stopped him from doing so. He did surrveilance installation for the FBI, and he worked for many electronics companies like Westinghouse and Sony. He also had his own repair shop as well. Heck he built his own tube amplifier when he was either 12 or 13! I challenge any of you to build your own tube amplifier at your current age. However, other than his good electronics abilities, he's not really the greatest dad in the world...left when I was 10 mos. old...I dunno, but I give credit where credit is due, and that's his electronics.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1962
Registered: Aug-04
Well, I'm sure sorry he left TB and credit to you for giving him kudos. Enjoy your music.
 

Silver Member
Username: Touche6784

Post Number: 383
Registered: Nov-04
and my dad is a medical genious who found the cure to shingles. by the way, HK,paradigm and Wharfedale do not make the same products so can not be in the same sentence. you cant talk about speaker makers when talking about recievers, even a 5 year old knows that.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1963
Registered: Aug-04
"even a 5 year old knows that" LOL!

Ah come on Christopher - a five year old wouldn't really know that - unless it was a genius.
 

Silver Member
Username: Johnny

Missouri

Post Number: 547
Registered: Dec-03
Why buy a Mercedes when you can buy 100 Pintos for the same price?
 

Silver Member
Username: Touche6784

Post Number: 384
Registered: Nov-04
well a 5 year old wouldnt talk about how great his mom is when the discussion is about how great their dad is. exactly johnny.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 717
Registered: Feb-04
"Hey guys, come see this pair of speakers I bought, they were $1k, and I could only afford one pair, but they sound awesome!"

LOL! Yeah, much more impressive to show off a wall of $50 speakers!

Sorry to tell you this, but I'd wager most people here don't consider 1K$ is overspending for a single pair of speakers. And most would be more impressed by a single pair of well-placed $500 speakers that image well than a wall of $50 speakers playing all at the same time. Except maybe Paul.
 

phart buster
Unregistered guest
Too much of any thing is not good. Believe me, I know.
 

zorro
Unregistered guest
TB,
You need a better camera ! lol
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 465
Registered: Feb-05
Actually Peter, $1K is a lot of money to a 17 yr. old so I suggest you quiet yourself. Don't you realize that more speakers = less cone movement = greater bass = longer life in speakers? Obviously not, you're all into specs, and no science/math added in. Tell me Peter, which is going to give me the great amount of sound, a 7.1 setup (I'll even throw in 15" sub) or 16 8" woofers as well as the speakers being 3-way for mids and highs? Heck, or even 24 x 6.5" drivers with 12 tweeters, as in my dad's system. So my point is, I could set my speaker columns up around my room for surround if it makes you happy, and DEFINITELY get more bass, mids, and highs than you. Although bass would not reach 25Hz or lower (possibly), my Sony's do reach 30Hz! My dad tested them, and they do reach that level and play it very well, but will not reach 25Hz, but by the time you have 30Hz, the rest is barely heard/felt if at all. I challenge you to play Comfortable Liar by Chevelle on your surround system, I guarantee it's practically all treble, because you may have good fronts and a good sub, but you'll never get the full sound of a lot of speakers with good mids highs and lows.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 722
Registered: Feb-04
TB,

You really like to challenge people to all sorts of things. Sure, 1K$ is a lot of money to a 17 year-old. You missed my point about the $500 vs 10x$50. We would be more impressed if you spent your money wisely on one single pair that sound good, rather than try to impress friends with a wall of speakers that can't possibly image a sounstage. So stick around and learn a bit.

I'll answer a few of your lines:

Don't you realize that more speakers = less cone movement = greater bass = longer life in speakers?

Our point is that a wall of speaker doesn't image as well as a single pair.

Obviously not, you're all into specs, and no science/math added in.

I'm actually a research scientist...

Tell me Peter, which is going to give me the great amount of sound, a 7.1 setup (I'll even throw in 15" sub) or 16 8" woofers as well as the speakers being 3-way for mids and highs?

Depends on the effiencicy of them... Unless you are pumping a kilowatt in them all.

But I'd put my 5.1 system against your wall any day for pure SPL. That's from the head start I have from an efficiency of 104 dB at 1W/1m on 4 of these speakers. What are yours rated at? 85db?

Your 16x 8" woofers have 804 sq in of area, while my 4x 15" and 2x 12" have 807 sq in. But who's counting. In two channel stereo, I'd rather listen to my single pair than your wall.

But that contest is besides the point. Our aim is not in getting the greatest amount of sound pressure, it's getting good sound. That's why we look at your wall in disbelief.

Maybe someone from the forum lives in your area and could let you listen to his or her system.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 466
Registered: Feb-05
I pump 700W, my dad pumps a kilowatt, and he has his AS2's in a wall formation with the same speaker configuration, and his has VERY VERY nice imaging. Ok, but my wall of speakers as you put it DOES sound VERY nice! You have 4 15" subs? AND 2 12" subs? Haha, there is one thing though, although you may have greater area, larger area does not produce as nice of SQ, as well as it is far less efficient!
" Even my "smallish" Carver M-1.0t will produce a sustained 460w/RMS
per channel and momentary peaks of more than 1200 w/ch into a 4 ohm load.
There is even a glib warning about the hazardous voltages developed at the
speaker terminals (about 200 volts P-P). I've actually seen speaker cones
catch on fire from misapplied power input levels, over a short period of
time. This is why I've employed a total of 24 woofers and 12 tweeters."
That is my dad's description very vaguely of his stereo. ANY decent speakers can sound good if positioned properly for imaging. It's all in position, not necessarily price and name!
He also said this, "The Sonys may not be and elite product, but they can image nicely if
positioned properly. The correct listening position, if one even exists, must be
determined empirically, that is by trial and error. Usually the speaker are
positioned along the narrow wall and toed-in as needed."
Oh, I thought I would include his description of what the basic LOUDNESS button does...hehehe beware lol, it gets crazy now!
" I should probably explain the "loudness function" in greater detail.
It was designed to offset the natural tendency of the human ear to roll off
the extreme lows and highs as the playback (loudness) level is reduced. The
human ear exhibits a series or family of frequency response curves
identified as "Fletcher-Munson" curves. They are named two famous
psychoacoustic researchers. The ear is only even slightly flat at the
highest loudness levels, that is, in excess of 95 or more dB. The loudness
button may produce as much as 20 or more dB boost below 100Hz and perhaps 8
to 12 dB boost above 5000Hz. An equalizer does the same thing, albeit with
more control, but it's effect is to make even greater power demands. As you
recall, from your explorations of logarithmic functions, a 20 dB boost
requires that 1.0 watts is boosted to 100 watts. If your already operating
at say 10 watts average, it's easy to see that a 60 watt amp cannot deliver
peaks of 1,000 watts to satisfy the loudness button! Enter Carver, the amp
COULD deliver the peaks of 1,000 watts cleanly, IF, and it's a BIG IF, your
speakers could handle it. That's precisely why you need a clean kilowatt of
dynamic power into a stack of many smaller matched high quality speakers to
meet your SPL cravings. Failing that, you will be doomed to destroy either
underpowered amp or speakers in attempt to reach your goals. Massive power
coupled with a collectively huge cone area is the only way to the sonic
"holy grail". No other approach will work, unless you can be happy to listen
at more moderate levels and develop responsible listening habits. The
dynamic range of even the most monotonous Rap is better than 10 to 20 dB.
than means a 1 watt average may jump to 10 or 100 watts. Classical music and
well recorded Jazz may require a dynamic range of 20 to 40 dB. Imagine 0.1
watts average going to 10 to 1000 watts in the blink of an eye. This is the
essence of music. Dynamic by nature, and incredibly complex."
Believe me now that he knows his stuff?
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 731
Registered: Feb-04
You have 4 15" subs? AND 2 12" subs?

No. That's not what I said. You said you had 16 8" woofers so I just counted mine up as well:
4 speakers with 15" woofers (mains and surrounds).
1 speaker with 12" woofer (center).
1 sub with 12" woofer.

How does your Carver M-1.0t drive all 24 woofers and 12 tweeters? These must be Bose style 1 ohm drivers all in series or something?

How loud does it get with your wall?
What is the efficiency (dB at 1W/1m) of your speakers?

The 40dB of dynamic range doesn't have to mean from 0.1W to 1000W. It could mean 0.01W to 100W just as easily.

Look, you say your wall of speakers sound very nice. That's great. I don't intend to try the experiment myself, nor do I particularly enjoy simulated 5-channel stereo on my receiver. Different strokes.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 469
Registered: Feb-05
Uh, buddy, the 24 woofers and 12 tweeters are really 6 pairs of Advent AS2 speakers, which that's my dad's system, not mine. That whole dynamic range thing, note he said "IMAGING" meaning that was a set up scenario! He has his AS2's wired in parallel-series to him M-1.0t. See, parallel-series wiring really isn't heard of too often in surround sound. To be honest, I'm not sure about his system's dB rating, and I don't have a SPL meter to test my own. I'll ask him about how loud his system gets though.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 471
Registered: Feb-05
I find it funny you make fun of my wall of speakers, when speakers with 15" and 12" woofers are nothing short of quite large. They may not be a wall, but they take up a heck of a lot of room, but yet, not quite as efficient as 24 6.5" drivers...
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 736
Registered: Feb-04
Well, usually a bunch of speakers don't image as well as a pair. Think of the many point sources causing all sorts of interference. But it may depend on the type of music you listen to. Perhaps rock isn't meant to image well anyway? They sure use a lot of speakers at concerts! :-)

My speakers are in fact quite large, and quite loud when needed. But my primary concern is good sound and not loud sound.

You can see the setup in this thread:

https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/137516.html

Even the smaller back surround which you see in black in the right corner of the first picture is 3'x2'x2' in size. I got those when I was about your age. The sub is next to it. A main speaker in the left corner, and the center on the TV. So you'll seeing half the system.

I wouldn't bet on them being not quite as efficient as 24 6.5" drivers. 104 dB at 1W/1m! That's very efficient. If you are talking surface area again, 24 6.5" drivers gives you 796 sq inches, still less than my 807 sq inches! In addition, mine are horn-loaded so they are moving more air than their surface area from the horn coupling. Each main speaker has about 4 square feet of horn mouth area on the bass bin.

Sorry TB, but you'd lose an efficiency battle, and you'd lose an SPL battle too. But more importantly, you should be focusing on the quality of the sound rather than how loud it gets. Don't you think?
 

Gold Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 1136
Registered: Jan-05
I pump 1.21 Gigawats into my system.

Sincerely,

Doc Emmett Brown
 

Gold Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 1137
Registered: Jan-05
Peter,

Nice setup!! The thread where you posted the Pic slipped under my radar until now.

You should go to the HT-Bragging area, and post the pics there and give the rundown of your system.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 473
Registered: Feb-05
Ok, Peter, I asked my dad, and his system with bass frequencies alone hits in excess of 130dB, precisely at 6 meters away, it is 134.5 dB. However, the peaks are higher yet, with full range sound alone, also, there is a 6dB drop with each doubling distance from the sound source, so had he been closer, it would have peaked higher.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jimvm

Louisiana U.S.A.

Post Number: 73
Registered: Apr-05
How's his hearing?
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 476
Registered: Feb-05
Hahaha, it's good surprisingly lol.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 479
Registered: Feb-05
Haha, Peter, surface area does not necessarily mean more effiecieny. Let's try this in just subs for a minute. Let's say I have 3 12" subs, and you have 2 15" subs...considering same brand and model and so forth, you may have more power, and area, but I have more efficiency, as I have more speakers. See, you can run two pairs of Cerwin Vega E-715's to the M1.0t, or the 12 Advent AS2's, but the AS2's are more efficient as they have overall more to work with. The E-715's granted are a very loud speaker, but, due to it's single woofer, it can't take the full brunt of the M1.0t, but 24 6.5" drivers CAN! Think of it this way, the RMS rating on those AS2's is like 120W and 200W Max, now the RMS on the E-715's is I believe 250W RMS and 400W Max. Since only RMS powers are to be considered when comparing speakers, let's add it up. Hrm, 250 X 4 is 1KW. Now, 120 X 12 is 1440KW! Now, which do you think is more efficient? I still find it funny however, you being so technologically knowledgable, didn't understand how the M1.0t could run those speakers all at once, it's quit hilarious actually. If you were really that endowed with audio knowledge, you would have been able to figure out that they were wired in parallel-series, come on, even the people in the car audio forum know about parallel-series wiring, as well as how to do it. What did you think, he just grabbed a bunch of tweeters and drivers and threw them all on a stand, and ran them to the M1.0t? You're crazy Peter, you have no real room to talk until you can figure out something as simple as that, but that's what you get when you have have 7 channels to work with rather than 2 or 4 depending on amp. When was the last time you had to wire anything in parallel-series on you surround? Heck, even in parallel. Do you even know what parallel-series wiring is?
 

Silver Member
Username: Touche6784

Post Number: 385
Registered: Nov-04
TB, STFU. honestly, if i knew where you lived i would go over and give you a beating. if you and your dad are so damn knowlegable about electronics and audio technology why is it that you are not famous? or for that matter millionares? get over yourself and your dad. if your dad is such an audio genious why was he working wiring door locks and not building massive useless walls of speakers? $1000 may be alot to a 17 year old that makes minimum wage but for a 40 year old man with an actual job it is just the beginning of an investment. I am 21 have a system that is probably worth about $1000 and i plan to upgrade by the end of the summer. get a job and maybe you can get an upgrade from that POS wall of speakers. oh wait, i forgot you are an audiophile genious and can make your own speakers from leftover pieces of junk. learn some manners or stay in the car audio forum.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 480
Registered: Feb-05
Acutally, I can build speakers that sound as good, if not better than your $1000 dollar speakers, so I suggest YOU STFU!
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 481
Registered: Feb-05
Yes, I agree however, that his talent has been wasted. But, that doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is talking about. You failed to read the fact that he owned a pair of PSB Gold's that WERE $1000, but sold them after finding the AS2's which had IDENTICAL SQ, so let's see, pay $1k for each pair, or buy something cheaper with equal power and sq for 150 a pair, gee you're an idiot! Are you saying YOU WOULD PAY THE ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS JUST BECAUSE IT SAYS SO ON THE TAG RATHER THAN BUY SOMETHIN EQUIVALENT THAT IS OF A CHEAPER PRICE. I'm not the knowledgable one about audio however. And, I think I would be the one giving the beating. Why is it any more of an investment to spend 1k than 150, if they are both equals? You do however realize, that also, if you had the knowhow, you also could build speakers that sound as good too, but see that requires time and effort, and is much more fullfilling than whipping out the old pocketbook. Yea, it's so impressive to be 21 and running around with mommy and daddy's money, as you are not old enough to have a WELL PAYING JOB! You're still in college for that matter. My system is worth $800 bucks! And his is worth well over what yours is, do you know how much a M1.0t is worth? About 600 bucks alone when it first premiered. So I suggest you shut up until you know what you're talking about. I don't have a M1.0t, I have a Behringer power amp, but it does exactly what I want it to. You're just another one of those Bose loving idiots, "Oh, look at my Bose system I spent infinite amounts of money on it, you can ALMOST hear some bass. The treble however is VERY VERY CLEAR AND CRISP. But ya know, I spent a lot more, so mine is better." You need to shove of you materialistic fruit cup.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 740
Registered: Feb-04
Hey Paul,
Thanks! :-)

TD, I've been much more polite than you deserve. Frankly, you need to grow up some.

120 X 12 = 1440W, and not 1440KW. As you know, that's only 6 dB above 350W. What is the rated efficiency of your speakers again? You keep answering that question with combined woofer areas or power handling, but efficiency has a different difinition altogether: how much sound pressure level mearsured 1 m away with 1W input.

so let's see, pay $1k for each pair, or buy something cheaper with equal power and sq for 150 a pair, gee you're an idiot!

You see, most of us don't believe that you have the same sound quality. There's no need to call us idiots.

I still find it funny however, you being so technologically knowledgable, didn't understand how the M1.0t could run those speakers all at once, it's quit hilarious actually.

Given your wall of speaker, I'm far from assuming any level of knowledge from you.

If you were really that endowed with audio knowledge, you would have been able to figure out that they were wired in parallel-series.

Wiring a bunch of different type speakers that way is sure-fire method of getting really crappy sound. These are not ideal 8 ohm loads. The load of each different speaker varies differently with frequency, with dips and highs at different frequencies. One speaker will end up outputing much more than the others at certain frequencies and less at others. Good luck with that.

Peter, you have no real room to talk until you can figure out something as simple as that

Listen kid, you are certainly not the one to tell when to shut up about this, or any other subject. I had as many years of education starting at your age than you have had since you were born. Get some manners.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 482
Registered: Feb-05
Ok, let's get this straight...the picture...is my PLAY AROUND SYSTEM...I have a whole other system with 16 of those yellow coned sony speakers running to my power amp. Yep, I'm sure you do have more education in than me, considering I'm going into my senior year of high school. Although, I'm not going into tech. stuff, I'm going into medicine. Trust me, when I was first starting out with audio, I discovered the whole separate frequencies of mismatched speakers, and hear it myself, causing me to implement a different plan. Why should I have manners when you're saying how terrible my system is. I meant to put W instead of KW, but when I get going, I tend to say things wrong, due to irratation. My Sony's aren't the most efficient things in the world at 88dB. I think his AS2's are 90dB, but however, I would like the RMS ratings on all of your speakers. But like I said I could whip out a few pairs of E-715's or V-15F's, and get a 102dB efficiency, and way overpower your system with sound, but CV is just that LOUD. They are not necessarily known for their SQ. Where the AS2's have AWESOME SQ as well as power when combined together. How many dB can your system reach?
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 741
Registered: Feb-04
TD,

I no longer know what you are talking about. I think half the time you are talking about your Dad's setup which, at least, appaers to use all the same speakers wired together (avoiding the different impendence issue I talked baout earlier). I now have no clue how yours are wired up. I can see how you can wire 4 speakers in series/parallel to end up with the same load, and therefore also 16. How do you do 12? That's three groups of 4...

You seem to claim that using 12 speakers wired together does something more than add 11 dB of head room from power handling. Miracle imaging or a fuller sound, I don't know.

130 dB... Since the Advent AS2 are rated at 90 dB efficiency, getting them to 130 dB at 2 m means 32 dB above 1W times 12 speakers. That's about 1600W per speaker. Good luck with that too.

Not that I care at all about how loud it gets but mine are at 104 dB efficiency. The extra 14 dB means a factor of 25 in power. You need 1250 W per channel to sound as loud as my 50 W per channel, unless I hook up the Carver M4.0t and then you need even more. That is what efficiency means TD.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 742
Registered: Feb-04
We cross posted there...

In answer to your question, my four main speaker are rated at 104 dB at 1W/1m, 100 W max continuous. 400 W peak. Unlike CV, they are known for good sound.

Why should I have manners when you're saying how terrible my system is

Why didn't you show the other system? You seemed to be proud to show off this set of mis-matched speakers. Now you saying differently. Did you think we'd think it sounds good?
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 743
Registered: Feb-04
How many dB can your system reach?

I don't really care!

I would guess:

104 dB at 1W/1m per speaker
124 dB at 100W continuous /1m per speaker
121 dB at 100W continuous /2m per speaker
127 dB at 100W continuous /2m with 4 speakers

Not counting the sub and the center speaker.

It's rare for me to exceed 105 dB.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 744
Registered: Feb-04
But like I said I could whip out a few pairs of E-715's or V-15F's, and get a 102dB efficiency, and way overpower your system with sound, but CV is just that LOUD.

Whip 'em out if you have theme. Not as loud as mine... and I've got 2 pairs.
 

New member
Username: Erictator

Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-05
Hey fella's, easy does it. You all need to remember this is just a hobby, and there is no right way to enjoy it, just as long as you do.

TB- I respect your position, and your right to believe what you do. I am thrilled that a 17 year old in today's world admires his dad, and on that basis alone, your both ok in my book. I just hope you will cut some of these other fella's some slack and respect their beliefs as well. There are some pretty sharp guys on line here that have been doing this for quite some time, and some cranks too, but the polite thing to do is extend each other some benefit of the doubt.

When I was 17 I had a subscription to "High Fidelity", I built "Speaker Lab" kits, and could only dream about the high end stuff I saw in the magazines. Some of my fondest memories are of time spent in the wood shop with my Dad and brother building speaker kits and staining and finishing some of the exotic woods.

Your taste will probably change with time, as did mine. Actually, I've gone full circle, from obsession with high current, analog audio, to several years side tracked in digital surround magic, and now back to appreciating the roots of clean, powerful analog sound. Anyone notice the recent resurgence of vinyl and tube amps? And I just gave away my Scott tube stuff and Ortofon player to the nephew, darn! Oh well, Different strokes as they say...

As far as imaging goes, it can be subjective I guess. What's the proper imaging for an orchestra? Well, if you are used to sitting on the right side, second balcony, I guess good imaging to you should be low and to the right! Your wall of speakers would put a lot of the highs well above the seated listening area, which may be a little distracting for people used to a more front and center sound stage. The convergence of so many drivers can have a pretty high cancellation rate, and for people that are used to listening to descreet driver sources, this could be very annoying. There are some people that spend quite a lot of time positioning a second subwoofer, so as not to conflict with each other, but feed off each other instead. I would guess you are getting a very thick enveloping image, much like a WHO concert, standing in front of the "wall" of Marshalls, heh, I can still dig that at my age, but I wouldn't want to listen to it every day.

Later,
Erictator
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 746
Registered: Feb-04
Thanks for your post Eric. Good first one!

When I was 18, I drove 5 hours in a borrowed Econoline van to pick up my then 8-year-old Klipsch La Scala that a cousin was selling me. They are now my surround speakers. There's no way I'll ever get rid of them. I'm too attached by now.
 

Silver Member
Username: Touche6784

Post Number: 386
Registered: Nov-04
actually i dont run around with my parents money. i make my own and buy my own things. I have a payed internship at Rohm and Haas paying pretty decent money so unlike you, im not a dipsh!t with a dad thats for crap. if you can build good speakers good for you. that still doesnt change the fact that you have a crappy a$$ system. having 16 crappy speakers doesnt make them any better. you have your head still too far into car audio. and when did i ever say i had a well paying job? my point was that im not much older than you are and yet my money is better spent. your own system is really nothing better than a wall of bose speakers. i could probably build speakers better than sony with no experience at all. and for the record i dont like bose, they make crap just as bad as sony which is why my system is B&W, Marantz, and HK not some wall of ulta crappy speakers. i would not make presumptions of how i came about my system. i took lots of time looking for what i wanted. difference between me and you is my investment was based on intelligent decisions. again, stop trying to glorify your useless father.
by the way,
"You need to shove of you materialistic fruit cup." learn to type in english not the wierd a$$ language that you speak. again, learn some manners and maybe i wont be such a dick to you.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 708
Registered: Feb-05
I agree with Peter....Bravo Eric!
 

Anonymous
 
TB
What are you trying to prove?
and way overpower your system with sound, but CV is just that LOUD. They are not necessarily known for their SQ. Where the AS2's have AWESOME SQ as well as power when combined together. How many dB can your system reach?
Why don't you just stay in the kiddies forums, where such bullshmit might impress the gullible.

I hear cars pass my house, most nights, which obviously have much greater bass amplification than I would ever want - even 50 feet away.

I have norhing but contempt for them.

If they could get girlfriends then they wouldn't bother to do it. :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 483
Registered: Feb-05
Haha, that's funny, but I do however have a car system, but I don't use it to pick up girls, heck, I use it to add necessary low frequencies door speakers alone can't pick up. I don't listen to rap, so no one can ever complain about my "booming."
I ask you, what's wrong with loud AND good sq?
 

Silver Member
Username: Illuminator

Post Number: 534
Registered: Apr-05
The post by Anonymous was of subnormal intelligence. They can support none of their arguments and will most likely never post here again. You should seriously just ignore it.

Car audio involves a great deal more math and overall knowledge, in actuality, and I find it more rewarding. You never talk about ohms or amplifier gain adjustment in home audio. Home audio is all about how much you pay, not what you know outside of simply purchasing the best or how much effort you're willing to put into installing your system.

In fact, the main reason i'm not more of an avid home audio fan is because home audio becomes outrageously expensive extremely easily. 1k for front speakers? That is a joke! If one was as old as the majority of the people in this forum, it would be better spent on karate practice for their kids or something more beneficial!

I'm glad that TB has found an intelligent way to compete with these overpriced sound systems. He has clearly put effort into his system and knows how to make it sound good by means other than spending more.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 490
Registered: Feb-05
I agree Jexxen, but I do like my home audio, that can hit SPL's similar to some decent car systems lol. And I don't spend that much money on crap like that. Now, you do talk about ohms and gain when you get into REAL home audio with vintage equipment such as Carver Power amps, and wiring 16 speakers to one.
Jexxen, you post in the car audio forum don't you? What made you come looking here lol? I thank you for your support, and I agree, I have found a way to beat the "system." The next best thing to the kind of system my dad has(mine doesn't compare) are European systems that literally cost a small fortune. Everyone in this forum doesn't talk about real home audio anyways, rather specs and price. Now, Jexxen, I agree car audio takes some figuring since it deals with a smaller area, but when you have strangely shaped rooms, it takes some effort to get imaging just right lol, and I see that you stated that already about my system. Everyone seems to forget though, that the picture I placed at the top is "EXPERIMENTAL" I can't get a picture of my REAL system since it's in the base ment for one, there isn't enough light for my pencam for two, and therefore I can't get a picture, so you gotta take my word for it. I'll be getting a digital camera soon, and when I do, I'll post the "good" system up. Although by that time, I might move it up to my room, so who knows. Home audio does take knowledge though, especially when using true receivers, with stereo sound, and not surround. It's easy to get good imaging from surround sound, especially with the new computerized systems the bounce frequencies of the walls and do it for you. Try doing it with vintage gear, that doesn't even have a remote, and if the power amp is set too high, and you don't get to it in time, guess what? Either all speakers are blown, or they WILL catch fire, making a BIG problem, so there's a lot to consider when toying bit a whole KW+ in home audio, especially when they don't make too many GOOD home audio speakers with power ratings of 1000W, like in car audio where subs are MADE to take abuse like that.
 

Silver Member
Username: Illuminator

Post Number: 536
Registered: Apr-05
Heh, I was actually just checking out the home audio forums to see if it was a place I would post in more often and saw this post which is similiar to the one you had in the car audio forum. Wanted to see what these people thought of it, but hey, now I know.

And yeah, vintage equipment requires a great deal more "know-how." I was mostly pointing out the perception these people have on home audio in comparison to car audio which has been seriously deluded.

Keep me updated on your stereo(s) though. It's interesting to learn new things by actually trying them rather than guessing everything like these people.
 

Gvenk
Unregistered guest
"Jeff Foxworthy meets the cast of Masterpiece Theater".

Of course, that says nothing about who enjoy themselves more which is after all the point of an "entertainment system". :-)

Reminds me of the time I had to drive from Chicago to West Lafayette in Indiana in a rental car with just a radio. As I got further away from Chicago, the stations droppped off one by one until I was just left with one station that could be received. This station was announcing prizes for a recent contest, the categories being something like "largest number of speakers in a 4x4", "Highest wattage stereo in a flat bed truck", etc.

To each his own...
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 492
Registered: Feb-05
Haha, that's funny!
 

patnshan
Unregistered guest
TB,
There is no cure for shingles, so what did your Dad invent? The shingles outbreak can be managed, but the virus lies dormant in neuro tissue and can re-emerge at any time. A cure has not been found, unless he is yet to publish his data?

Pat
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 495
Registered: Feb-05
What? That had no relevancy to the post...
 

patnshan
Unregistered guest
Sorry, that was Chris Lee that posted that stuff about his Dad. My bad!
Pat
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 498
Registered: Feb-05
I posted stuff about my Dad, but I didn't mean to say he is God, and I never said he was a medicaly genius lol.
 

Silver Member
Username: Touche6784

Post Number: 387
Registered: Nov-04
haha, if you actually read through this thread you would have figured out that i was mocking TB.
 

patnshan
Unregistered guest
Got it Man : )
 

Silver Member
Username: Tdbdrummer

Post Number: 500
Registered: Feb-05
Well, it's ok, because I'm going to have a better system in a little bit, 2 Cerwin Vega V-15F's and an M1.0t or similar in power, power amp. Once I get that, I'll consider adding another pair of the V-15f's, however, one pair is enough loudness and rather good SQ for ANY person, but you know, having 4 X4-5' speakers in your room lol. Oh, I found out that the M1.0t has a dynamic power of 1.6Kw, is that enough power or what? It takes the cake over nearly all car power amps for that matter, as they are only 33% of their actual power.
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