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Cerwin Vegas

 

Bronze Member
Username: Hailandkill

Post Number: 12
Registered: Feb-05
I have never heard of the company before nor have I heard their offerings. Their E710 speaker caught my attention at such a low price ($130). Anyone ever try out these speakers? Care to share your thoughts? Looking for some good, loud speakers for blasting music. Another reason they caught my attention, these are 200 watts rms at 95db.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 172
Registered: Feb-05
We have a poster here, I think his name is Paul, who owns Cerwin Vega's and appears to enjoy them very much. Perhaps he will respond.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jet2001

Post Number: 28
Registered: Mar-05
I own, but currently am not using, Cerwin Vega E715s. They are great speakers for blasting music. They create a huge sound stage and I enjoyed that sound when I had the space. My new entertainment room just doesn't have the space for speakers of that size, otherwise I'd still be using them. Go listen to them, I think you'll like them.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blasterman

Post Number: 16
Registered: Mar-05
When I was a kid I went through a lot of C-W's. Had a pair the size of a fridge, and could drive them to near brain damage levels with a 50wpc amp.

Yep, loud, easy to drive, loud (did I say loud?).
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 468
Registered: Jan-05
Based on your question, they're probably exactly what you're looking for. What I do know is they're a glutton for punishment and survived many years of hard use through my HS and college years. 20 years later, and they're still going strong as part of my HT surround system.

Even so, I wouldnt recommend buying anything without suggesting you listen to them first so you know exactly what you're getting. The CW website lists local retailers, and most likely, there is one not too far away.

I've recently looked into buying something new, and couldnt find anything that could deliver as large of a soundstage as my old D9s. Needless to say, I didnt buy anything new after a disappointing shopping adventure and they serve their purpose well as a crutial piece of my HT surround system.
 

New member
Username: Gas_wyoming

Cody, WY

Post Number: 10
Registered: Mar-05
If you're looking to blast music, please consider Klipsch. They have many full size speakers that offer a (IMHO) better sound stage than any CV I've ever heard. eBay is the place to start looking, but as everyone has said, please go to a local audio store and check these out for your "listening taste" before buying. I'm one who like Polk Audio (now that I can afford a set) for my HT setup...I have a Klipsch Quintet II system for general music listening...I love them!
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 469
Registered: Jan-05
IMO....Klipsch are a better quality construction, but dont offer a bigger soundstage.

I listened to and considered buying a pair of Klipsch KLIRF7CH towers which sell for $2,000/pair, and my cheap old $750 D9s blew them away.

Did they sound good to me??...Yes, but they sounded 'smaller'. In the end, I thought my CVs produced a more 'theater-like' atmosphere and I passed on the more expensive towers. I'll have to admit though, they sounded better to me than anything I listened to in the stores. Im also not a big fan of the 2-way design. If anything, they sounded a little too 'horn-like' for my taste.

My speakers have control knobs on the cabinet that allow you to adjust the mid/high levels on each speaker relative to the main 15" drivers, so you can get the output exactly where you want it. IE....if the tweeters seem overbearing, I can easily adjust them down to fit my preference without having to try to equalize them via my amp to tone them up or down.

What would you do if they're already equalized just right, but simply too overbearing relative to the main drivers with the klipsch??
 

Silver Member
Username: Gavincumm

Post Number: 152
Registered: Feb-05
the only way klipsch won't totally blow away CV is if they arent being driven with QUALITY...let me say it again...QUALITY electronics. The klipsch reference have toasted any Cerwin-Vega speaker I have ever heard. CV seem to have really loose, boomy bass with terrible shrill highs.

(note that I am refering to the new cerwin speakers)


and if you use good electronics... they won't be overbearing (IE: horn like) You can't drive them with cheap electronics. I reccomend the Pioneer Elite A-35r integrated amp at a minimum. Nice smooth sound with great highs for the price.

Klipsch are by far and away a better speaker, even the synergy series IMHO.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Hailandkill

Post Number: 13
Registered: Feb-05
Thanks for replying everyone. I chose the CV because of its 3way capability and cheap price. I guess you get what you pay for. I'll have to save up for my JBL E90's. Can anyone comment on whether or not you will need a sub with e90's? I just want nice tight bass for music, nothing special for movies or anything, that will all be added later when I move.
 

Nicolaskl
Unregistered guest
I used to own a pair of CV D-3s and I currently own one of their center channels that I'm using on my computer audio system, and I've listed to a lot of CVs over the years. One of my impressions is that the company has somewhat decreased in quality over the years (I bought the D3s back in 1990 probably). Not a major drop, but tangible.

The other is that CV is definitely a quantity over quality thing. Even the relatively small (compared to some of their other offerings) D3s were capable of generating some ear shattering dB, but you're never gonna confuse em with a pair of B&Ws or Paradigms or even Klipschs (and I'm not really that fond of Klipsch lately either).

Course I haven't listed to any CVs for a few years so I dont know much about any recent offerings they may have.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Hailandkill

Post Number: 14
Registered: Feb-05
One quick question, I've heard a lot of good reviews about Fluance speakers. I have also been wanting a pair of their SM-938's for a long time. Can anyone comment on these speakers? Also, does anyone in the NY/NJ/PA area know a place where I can audition these speakers?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Max190

Maryland Heights, Missouri US

Post Number: 22
Registered: Apr-05
John,
Loud yes, good no.
 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 176
Registered: Mar-05
John,

I've been told that the Fluance bookshelves (SV-6) are much better quality than their floorstanders; not surprising considering the pricepoint. Yeah, I would definitely try to audition these before ordering---unlike Ascend and Axiom, they don't give you such a nice 30-day refund policy, I think you have maybe 10 days.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 541
Registered: Jan-05
LOL

Gotta love it when the 'music snobs' try to self-rationalize overpaying for teensy-weensy nothing speakers.

Enjoy your small bookshelf 'nothing' lightweights. Im sure they'll sound great providing your home theater is in a closet.
 

New member
Username: Mauimusicman

Post Number: 6
Registered: Apr-05
LOL

Gotta love it when the 'Bose owners' try to self-rationalize paying for a poorly built, awful-sounding speaker.

Enjoy your 'low-fi' CV and Bose setup. Im sure they'll sound great providing...well no, they wont ever really sound great I guess.

M.Musicman Ph.D. Musicology (Prince Style)
 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 177
Registered: Mar-05
Maui,

nice to see you've registered at long last! : )

(assuming you are the REAL Maui and not the usual merry prankster pretending to be you, ahem)
 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 178
Registered: Mar-05
John,

BTW if you have already ordered your CVs, I hope that the place you ordered them for has a good return policy too.
 

New member
Username: Mauimusicman

Post Number: 7
Registered: Apr-05
Thank you Edster. I thought it was time to deal with that issue. I like toying with someone as much as the next guy, but things do get old after a while.

M.Musicman Ph.D. Musicology (Prince Style)
 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 181
Registered: Mar-05
Maui,

Yep, they do indeed.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 542
Registered: Jan-05
LOL

My Bose are placed exactly where they belong .........as back speakers.

Trust me.......Im no bose fan and only bought them because they exactly fit the application I needed. IMO, just about any speaker will do as back speakers.

The importance I place on speakers are in this order.....

1.Front-EXTREMELY important, make or break a system
2.Center-very important, but less than fronts
3.Surround-Any quality '3-way' bookshelf will do.
4.Back-Anything that fits your specific physical application will work.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Gas_wyoming

Cody, WY

Post Number: 31
Registered: Mar-05
Paul,
Is your opinion above based on HT or music performance? I would disagree that surround and backs don't make a difference in music. One of my favorite music settings is Neo 6. The surrounds and backs both play into the sound. I have tried hard to stay with a certain voice matched set of speakers to avoid differences I heard when I hooked up a set of 'junk Technics' speakers to find out if my new receiver with 7.1 capability was really going to make the difference I expected to hear. The Technics speakers made me buy a new set of rears.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 548
Registered: Jan-05
Gas,

My use is virtually HT exclusive. I agree that for any use, speakers are important. Of course, some are more imortant than others.

IMO....the fronts are "all" important and the center is close behind. I believe that any sound system is either made or broken based on those speaker choices.

Beyond that, there is some flexiblility. Quality 3-way surrounds are important, but much less so than those mentioned above. The back??...even less so.

As for matching???...It's most important accross the front. Much less important when dealing with surrounds, and even moreso with the back.
 

Unregistered guest
Paul, This is untrue! Klipsch does the sound better. I own the Cerwin Vega D-9 and D-7 speakers I bought back in 1987 and I still have them. Last year I bought a pair of the Klipsch RF-7 speakers and it out performs the Cerwin Vega's D-9 and D-7 in many areas. I'm very fond of my Cerwin Vega D-9 and D-7 speakers but I have never heard them ever sound as good as the Klipsch RF-7. The RF-7 have a very large soundstage, very clear highs, and better detail all the way around, better type bass, tight, deep, taugt, with resolution. I've been luck that my Cerwin Vega D-9 and D-7 surrounds are still holding up but I'm going to have to replace the surrounds soon because they are starting to get dry root, for others, the foam surrounds failed much earlier than mine. The good thing about Klipsch is that they never used foam surrounds so they don't have the foam rot problems. As much as I like Cerwin Vega, they just are not in the same quality sound that the Klipsch are. And yes..... you do need quality equipment to run Klipsch for them to sound so stunning, amazing, and unbelieveble great sound. If you try and run it on cheaper quality equip, then you will get bright and harsh unpleasant sound. Klipsch is very good, but only as good as the equipment you give it, so don't forget that!
I love Klipsch sound!!!! Rotel equipment goes wonderful with Klipsch! The combo was like they were made for each other. Don't run Denon or Yamaha with Klipsch, those will kill the sound on a Klipsch speaker.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 721
Registered: Jan-05
Glad 'you' like them pro.

I personally listened to the RF7s and was left uninspired and shaking my head. Spending $150 to have speakers reconed after 20 years really isnt an issue if you liked the speakers enough to keep them that long in the first place.

I agree with your comment on receivers though. If you're going to power a $2,000 pair of front speakers as part of a 5/7 channel surround system, skimping on a budget receiver would not make much sense.

I seriously doubt anyone would spend that amount on speakers only to plug them into a low end $500 receiver.
 

Silver Member
Username: Gavincumm

Post Number: 186
Registered: Feb-05
LMAO!!!


this is what I have been saying all along! You can't run klipsch with a budget reciever! they will soundly trash the lower end klipsch in resolution, imaging, bass depth, and soundstage width.

Power them with a good tube amp if you really want to hear them at the best.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 442
Registered: Feb-04
Well, my La Scala's pull the imaging disappearing act driven by an h/k avr-235.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 743
Registered: Jan-05
yea, the 235 is hardly a 'beefy' amp.

More like 'econo'.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 444
Registered: Feb-04
Typo on my part... It's an older avr-325. But by hi-fi standards it's not expensive (weighs 40 lbs though). Yet my "expensive" speakers are quite happy with it. Go figure.

You said:

I seriously doubt anyone would spend that amount on speakers only to plug them into a low end $500 receiver.

Well I have.
 

Pappi
Unregistered guest
Yeah, like Paul has high end gear....LMAO

Cerwin Vegas ???? and what else, maybe a Durabrand "System" ? oh yeah Baby !
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 747
Registered: Jan-05
Actually.......
Unlike all unregistered numnuts/pappi, my system is listed under my profile. I've always been forthright about what I own, and never claimed it was anything it wasnt. I've never claimed they were high end audiphile cheese & wine speakers, but considering the $750 I spent on them 20 years ago, they're hardly bottom of the barrel either. I could spend a heck of a lot more and be a lot worse off........that's for sure.

BTW, for you young puppies, you could have bought a brand new Corvette for as little as $24k back in '84. Whoah...money sure doesnt go as far as it used to.
Heh
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 749
Registered: Jan-05
Peter,

So long as your speakers like the amp, thats what's important, right?
 

Unregistered guest
I don't have a problem with re-coning, I can do it myself for only $50.00 for both pair, D-9 and D-7. Using longer lasting materials is always better though, but we won't go there.

I've heard the Klipsch RF-7 in two demo rooms at the dealers and I wasn't impressed at all, but I knew right away when I heard them, something was very wrong because I have these RF-7 at home and know them very well and what they are capable of. Too often we find alot of times the dealers can not set things up right with any speaker or equip. combos. That's why it's always best to demo at home if you can. The RF-7's are a great wonderful speaker but don't just take my word for it, read the user reviews and magazine reviews and it's quite nice, many state they are very happy and stunned by them and many feel they are under-rated and very under-priced for it's performance, myself included. Enjoy!
 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 296
Registered: Mar-05
> Too often we find alot of times the dealers can not set things up right with any speaker or equip. combos. That's why it's always best to demo at home if you can.

YESSSSS!

This is particularly true of big-box chains like Best Buy, etc. with poorly trained and high-turnover staff, which were the ONLY places Paul has ever auditioned speakers sinced he pooh-poohed smaller "boutique" dealers.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 751
Registered: Jan-05
Actually, my experience is they tend to power with more expensive units and the opposite is true. Ya know, they'll demo it powered with a $5,000 amp knowing full well they'll be powered by much less when you bring them home.

The RF7s were powered by a Denon5805 and it still sounde like crap. And yes, the store I was shopping also had $8,000 KEFs on the floor. BTW, they sounded small and dainty too. Price obviously doesnt tell the whole story. They would have no doubt been great for 'cheese & wine' music though.

Oooops......so much for Edsters theory. He's wrong about everything, so it's no shock. I have no interest in 'cheese & wine' speakers like Edsters, and would rather own kickazz monitors that are capable of shaking your foundation. I'd rather have something with more substance .......steak.
 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 299
Registered: Mar-05
Paul,

Your macho obsession with power is hilarious! This is what ProStereoGuy wrote:

"Too often we find alot of times the dealers can not set things up right with any speaker or equip. combos."

That has nothing to do with how much the amp/receiver cost or how powerful it is.

See Paul, aside from dumb brute POWER, there are a number of other critical factors that shape how speakers sound: placement, room accoustics, receiver settings, etc. The best speakers in the world with the best receiver in the world can still sound like crap if those factors are screwed up.

Obviously these subtleties are likely to escape someone whose main interest in audio is shaking the walls, LOL.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 752
Registered: Jan-05
LOL........if you want to hear something really pathetic, place any ittybitty bookshelves side by side next to a pair of 'real' behemoth speakers and the bookshelves will sound like 'portable-radio' quality, at best.
 

Silver Member
Username: Gavincumm

Post Number: 190
Registered: Feb-05
not always true... get a decent pair of bookshelfs that have a properly designed, tuned transmission line, and the bass may surprise you.

gavin
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 756
Registered: Jan-05
Yea, Im sure there are lots of small 'cubes' that create larger soundstages than the largest of floor standing speakers.
 

Anonymous
 
Actually Bose systems with their direct/reflecting "technology" are known to create abnormally large soundstages. Part of their appeal I suppose.
 

Anonymous
 
just go and listen to a real pair of audiophile floorstanders like Von Schweikert that go down to 20hz at -3db and you will see for yourself what true bass is. No cheap floorstander can do what a good pair of well built speakers can, no matter how big the drivers. There is much more to speakers than what meets the eye.

Cheap floorstanders like CV's of today usually reak with resonance. You rap on the sides of those babies, and they are really hollow. you can hear it in the bass, which is really loose, and has no definition. This is not even touching on the subjects on midrange and treble, which are also in need of refinement.

good bass needs a quality cabinet, and unfortunatly this comes at expense when it comes to towers. This is why I have a hard time finding anything other than standmounts, with a subwoofer in the under $1000 category. The standmounts are easily $1000 by themselves.

This is not to say that there arent exceptions to the rule:

athena, klipsch reference, polk audio lsi, paradigm monitor and studio series, usher audio, and B&W all have outstanding products both standmount and floorstanding in and a little above $1500 in this price range. (athena can be had for a lot less...some might argue it doesnt belong in this group)

Of course they won't go down to 20hz, but they will provide you with sound that is by far and away better than what can be had at Best Buy (with exception of athena)
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 359
Registered: Feb-05
Anonymous: you make some good points. I would like to invite you to join us in registering. As Anonymous it's too easy to impersonate you and we never really know who we are talking to, so to speak.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 451
Registered: Feb-04
Anon, you forgot "Klipsch heritage" in that list. :-)

Of course, to stay under the 1K mark I'll make that "used Klipsch heritage"
 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 310
Registered: Mar-05
Anonymous,

I agree with Arthur, protect yourself from impersonators before it's too late...like in poor Maui's case!
 

Anony
Unregistered guest
Posting as anon since is not my intention to brag...I have these and love them...
Being driven by McIntosh Gear..... Naturally

Great Forum

Cheers everyone

http://www.symphonysound.com/lit/mcintosh/XRT30br.pdf#search='mcintosh%20xrt30'

crap...I just realized I posted on the wrong thread a minute ago...oh well

Enjoy the music
 

Silver Member
Username: Gavincumm

Post Number: 191
Registered: Feb-05
it was me that posted the first anon... I was afraid I was gonna get ragged on by paul because of the nature of the post.

you are right... I forgot used klipsch heritage... however, the horns can be honky so thats why I didnt mention them. New klipsch Heresys are right in the budget though and don't sound great. Need a sub IMHO.
 

Silver Member
Username: Gavincumm

Post Number: 192
Registered: Feb-05
the one that went into a rant about speaker construction anyway
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 455
Registered: Feb-04
Matter of taste. I've never heard my LS as honky. They benefit from a sub but don't require one.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 767
Registered: Jan-05
An interesting note.......Some will enjoy this because of my 'anti-sub' comments in the past. I listened to a klipsch setup yesterday in a soundromm using a 7.1 format. It was setup playing 'the incredibles' on a 60" plasma.

Anyway....I thought the Klipsch front/centers sounded flat and empty compared to my CVs, but they were running this $2,000 KEF sub that sounded awesome. Shockingly, I was quite impressed with this sub. I can get good bass with my setup without a sub, but I need volume to create the bass. If listening at lower levels, bass is lacking and that's where I thought the sub was impressive.

Because of that, I'm considering the concept of buying a sub to see how it compares at different volume levels. I'm wondering if buying one that fires to the front, or down would be better, or if it makes a difference. What are your opinions on either front or downfiring subs?? Whatever I do buy, it will be a 15" in a big heavy cabinet. I wont consider any of those teeny 8-10" pint-sized lightweights that make extraordinary claims because I've listened to many, and none impressed me in the slightest.

That KEF was smooth though......whoah. It's the first one that I've heard that caught my attention in a good way.

Since Im the "Anti-Sub" guy......I suppose that I need to do some homework to see if it's worth the hassle. I almost bought the KEF on the spot on a whim, but knowing how overpriced KEF speakers are (in general), clearer thoughts prevailed and I decided to finally research the idea of adding a sub to my system. heck.........I'm in the mood to buy something, and cant think of anything else that I might want. It might as well be my first sub, right?

BTW, if you all want to sling some more mud at my CVs, I added pics of my system over in the "Bragging Area" in the HT forum.
 

Silver Member
Username: Dmwiley

Post Number: 548
Registered: Feb-05
Cerwin Vegas are generally very efficient and will play loud without a lot of power. They tend to emphasize bass, usually only fair midrange and high frequency accuracy. If you want to party, they are great. If you're into serious listening and accuracy is important to you, look elsewhere.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 769
Registered: Jan-05
I disagree totally......

Mine are rated at 4-8Ohms and they dip way down.

If you expect big bass at the low end of the spectrum and want them to sound their best, you need "BIG" juice to make these beasts perform to their potential.

I know from experience on these(trust me) .......I've had 4 different amps powering the very same speakers over the past 20 years.

Any old amp will make them sound loud and ugly........

but if you really, really want to wake the dead and sound good, you need a quality amp. The difference is almost night and day. If you plug them into a sh!t amp, that's just what you'll get...sh!t sound.
 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 314
Registered: Mar-05
Paul,

Delighted to see you're coming around on the issue of subs!

I know this is likely to fall on deaf ears, but instead of blowing $2000 on the KEF sub I'd wager that either of these would equal or better it for a lot less:

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb12_ultra.htm

http://www.hsustore.com/vtf3.html

Of course the deal-breaker here is that these are both Internet-direct subs---I know, I know. Really too bad!
 

Silver Member
Username: Gavincumm

Post Number: 195
Registered: Feb-05
my reference to CV speakers is the new ones, which are total trash, as any audio enthusiast will agree with me on. They just are not built as well as they should be. But note that I am referring to the NEW ones, and not the OLD.

they are for creating loud bass... well really loud everything at the expense of everything. essentially, party speakers and that is it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Dmwiley

Post Number: 560
Registered: Feb-05
Gavin is right.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 779
Registered: Jan-05
http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb12_plus_2.htm

Im actually considering this sub.......

Can you say leap of faith??
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 364
Registered: Feb-05
Paul: If you want a sub that is right up your alley, and I mean that in the best way, you must listen to the Paradigm PW2200. It's a bit ferocious for music that's why I have the PW2100, but for movies that sub is unbeatable. I had everything in my house and the neighbors house shakin' when I owned it. I'm serious, read the consumer reviews on audioREVIEW.com. The most common theme is "oh my god". Check it out Paul, I sh&% you not, if that sub doesn't rattle everything in your house I'll eat my hat. You heard it here.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 780
Registered: Jan-05
Actually, I was thinking the SVS listed above is 'right up my alley'. The paradigm looks like a quality sub, but the SVS pb12-plus/2 looks like it's in an entirely different class. Did you read about that thing?? Geez, it looks like it's a monster! I also prefer a downfiring sub, and the doubled output of 2 drivers. It weighs 140lbs....wow

It definitely meets my 'behemoth' criteria. It may even be overkill for my needs, and im considering 'just' the PB12-plus as well. I've been doing my homework and will check more out in person over the weekend.

I've definitely ruled-out the KEF sub. I think the ones listed above would blow away the KEF.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 365
Registered: Feb-05
Wow, 140lbs that may be overkill at the local cineplex. I'm glad you're going to try a sub. I know with my system when I'm watching movies it feels like the whole room is shaking, I love it. That's what I love about my system, the subtlety to play jazz and classical with panache and the balls to give "Master and Commander" a live action feel. Yippie.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 781
Registered: Jan-05
Yea, the PB12-plus weighs in at 110lbs and has a 500wat amp. The Pb-plus/2(2driver design) has a 900 watt amp!!! That might be a bit more bang than I need for my living space. I dont want the neighborhood to have to call the police to complain...HEH

Both are quite beefy indeed. Compared to what I have seen in the stores thus far, either of these look like extremely good deals. On paper, the pb12-plus looks better than the KEF, but at half the price.

Im definitely tempted to take a 'leap of faith' on the sub. Id never do that for front speakers though, only numskulls would do a thing like that.

hahahahahahahahaahah
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 366
Registered: Feb-05
Paradigm PW2200 400 watt amp 1500 watt peak, Paradigm Seismic 12 1200 watt amp 4500 watt peak, nuff said. Might want to listen first!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mauimusicman

Post Number: 35
Registered: Apr-05
16 Klipsch SWS subwoofers in an array!!!!!
 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 339
Registered: Mar-05
Paul wrote:

"http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb12_plus_2.htm

Im actually considering this sub.......

Can you say leap of faith??"

No Paul, I call that THE BEGINNING OF YOUR (drumroll please) WAKING UP AND SMELLING THE COFFEE!!!

(gloat, gloat, gloat...) Tee-hee!
 

New member
Username: Bob_rob

Madison, WI Usa

Post Number: 1
Registered: May-05
I owned some C V 's back in the late 70's and they were top notch with a loud killer sound. I listened to some lately and thought they lacked depth. I went with the Paradigm's. The Titans are very afforable.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 783
Registered: Jan-05
RM,
My 20year old CV behemoths outperform many 'sissy' cheese and wine floor standing speakers selling today. People who knock them have no clue about CV history or what they've built through the years. I wouldnt trade them 'even up' for speakers selling many X's the $750 I paid for them back in 1985.

As for the subs.....Ive never heard a sub worth a darn until I listened to a $2,000 KEF sub yesterday, and it caught my attention. For me, it's all about the sound, and the rest doesnt matter. Now that subs have finally caught my interest, I will most likely buy one because I need big volume to create bass with my 'behemoths', and I like the bass output by subs produced at lower and moderate volumes. Also a worthy note, I managed to "bottom-out" my CVs watching "The Incredibles" at -10db and it p!ssed me off. For that reason alone, I'm open to the concept of a sub. Without that experience, I still wouldnt have considered a sub.

If anything, I thank Edster for providing the links, because I may take a FLYING "leap of faith" and purchase a SVS sub. I havnt seen anything comperable to the dual 12"er in stores, and it has my interest......

The only thing comperable was the KEF, and it cost twice as much. BTW, only a complete nitwit would buy front speakers on the web, and subs are a completely different category...........hahahahaha


The pb-plus/2s definitely has my interest. We'll see what happens and I'll fill you in with the details when/if I buy something. My interest is in both the pb-plus, and pb-plus/2s.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 784
Registered: Jan-05
There will be no 'sissy' sub on my wish list.....

That's for sure. Behemoth subs only need apply.....

HEH
 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 347
Registered: Mar-05
Paul,

please elaborate, in your usual razor-sharp logical way, what the clear-as-day startling difference is between buying speakers off the Internet versus buying a subwoofer off the Internet.

This'll be very edifying, no doubt...
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 795
Registered: Jan-05
Different Front speakers can get glowing reviews, but still sound completely different from one another. What sounds great to one reviewer, might sound like dogmeat to my ears.

Bass on the other hand is completely different. Subs either do their job well, or they dont. Bass is......well, just bass.

BTW, thanks for the link, based on what I've read, the SVS PB12-plus/2 sounds like it may be capable of rattling breakables off the shelves inside my neighbors house. Bass is bass.........either you've got it, or you dont. After reading many reviews of various models, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to be able to separate the models that 'got the goods' from those pretenders who dont.

After reading several reviews, I'd better get my home inspected to make everything is structurally sound. I wouldnt want anything to collapse after firing that mutha up. hahaha
Coupling a 140lb sub with my 100lb behemoth fronts should be lots of fun:-)

Did you say 'bookshelf'?.....hahahahahahahah

Not in my house!! Maybe for my sons bedroom when he gets a little older.
 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 349
Registered: Mar-05
> Different Front speakers can get glowing reviews, but still sound completely different from one another. What sounds great to one reviewer, might sound like dogmeat to my ears.
> Bass on the other hand is completely different. Subs either do their job well, or they dont. Bass is......well, just bass.

Interesting that you are so sure of this when you've never owned a sub before, but I won't attempt to change your mind.

you know Paul, since size and sheer power seem to be your only priorities, you might want to look into Infinite Baffle subwoofers. I have no experience with them but have read really interesting raves about them---the downside is that you will need to have some DIY skills and be willing to modify your house. But this does seem like a very novel concept, and also good WAF because these are practically invisible. Do a Google search on them, you'll find plenty of explanatory websites.

Also you might want to look at the cylindrical tube subs from Hsu, these also are interesting.

As for "bass being bass" I suppose if you are primarily an HT user that is a somewhat acceptable statement.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 809
Registered: Jan-05
Im not into those cylindrical tubes because I'd probably need two of them to be satisfied.

The big sub with dual woofers is the way to go for me.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Audioholic

Post Number: 29
Registered: Apr-05
Edster, it's fake maui. Maui dude, you need therapy. Edster, this is what he admitted to me in another thread here:
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/135322.html
 

Bronze Member
Username: Audioholic

Post Number: 32
Registered: Apr-05
Paul, when you say your C.V.'s have huge soundstage, what exactly do you mean? Width? Depth? Height? Explain please?
 

Anoni
Unregistered guest
Hey Paul,
Your Son's bedroom? Man I thought you were like 11 years old !
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 819
Registered: Jan-05
Paul B.,

When I say big, I mean "Movie theater". If I tried that with little bookshelf speakers, they'd be wrecked after their first movie night. I'd want something that can take a licking, and keep on ticking. Not a weakling speaker with tweeters blowing left and right.
 

Unregistered guest
Paul, You do not need a sub with the Cerwin Vega speakers, not with the D-9 or D-7!

Take a Klipsch RF-7 and a high quality amp with 2-channel only for music. Compare with the Cerwin Vega D-9 going back and forth comparing. Then tell me what you think! There is a difference! The Klipsch RF-7 is much better. It gives pin-point imaging accuracy, bass resolution that is absent in the Cerwin Vega and beautiful natural midrange vocals that are very accurate. I'm running mine on a very expensive 400wpc amp, all separates. You cannot judge by listening on a 7.1 setup from the store! The RF-7 creates a huge soundstage that the Cerwin Vega's can't. The Cerwin Vega D-9 and D-7 always have a wide sound. The RF-7 will be wide or narrow depending on what the source recording really is. The RF-7 can produce as if a singer is really right there in front of you singing. With the Cerwin Vega, it just can't produce that kind of accuracy and life like presentation.

There is no way for me to explain this to you because you will have no understanding to it unless you had both and see what I'm talking about. I use my RF-7 for 2-channel only music listening and my Cerwin Vega on my HomeTheater since for HT.... I don't care about the quality as much since I'm more into the music for quality than I am HT for movies. The Cerwin Vega does a good job for that for being decent. I have tested my RF-7 for HT against the Cerwin Vegas and again, the RF-7 is better. You will hear detail in movies that the RF-7 reveal, where the Cerwin Vega barely does or hardly at all. The Cerwin Vega also has the mid-bass california hump in them for more bass but this is not accurate and leaves it a little loose and not as tight, taut, and controlled as it could be but Cerwin Vega is famous for this hump because they are geared to the "lets rock until we drop crowd" and that's their market. Great rock speakers, but not the most accurate, just decent. These classic Cerwin Vega speakers are not crap, they are decent. They did a good job inside with bracing and crossover components are pretty good quality too.

I have no plans on getting rid of my Cerwin Vega D-9 or D-7 speakers as they are in mint condition and I like the BIG looks and style that you can't get like that anymore. My Klipsch RF-7 are a whole different higher quality stunning sound, trust me! I know and hear the difference. If my Cerwin Vega D-9 or D-7 could do what what the Klipsch RF-7 can do..... I would never bought the RF-7!

If you are happy with Cerwin Vega and the decent sound it gives, that's great! All the more power to you because you don't have to spend anymore money to achive better! Saving money is always a good thing! Now.....forget the sub, the Cerwin Vega D-9 and D-7 produces some earth shaking bass that can rumble even the neighbors house!
 

New member
Username: Cm73

Post Number: 1
Registered: May-05
Hello, interesting flow to the discussion. I have a set of CV's classic series, 12". For what I am looking for and within my budget, they are great. i am however, only driving them with a Sony st597 I believe. For HT, I find they suit my needs. For music, I'd like to see if I can push them any harder. I've been looking at the Rotel 1056, the Denon 21,28,38 and the Marantz series. Can anyone recommend a match?
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 475
Registered: Feb-05
workerbee: Rotel has the most grunt of the three you mentioned but with CV's you're probably looking more at volume than hifi results so I would recommend Marantz SR5500. The HK or Denon equivalents should fine as well. Anyone of those 3 receivers will give you quite and upgrade for music.
 

Unregistered guest
I agree with "Art Kyle" with comments to Rotel. Rotel's are very nice but the Cerwin Vega's won't let you hear all that the Rotel can do, although still goes well with Cerwin Vega.

Just to clear things up here...... Cerwin Vega's are great for the price! I've enjoyed my D-9 and D-7 all these years. My Cerwin Vega's go great with Home Theater, it gives that really big rich sound that the movies theaters used to have that many still long for. I'm using my Klipsch RF-7 for 2-channel music and my Cerwin Vega's for Home Theater.

Cerwin Vega's are more than adequate to give you great sound for music and home theater, especially for the price..... it would be very hard to find something better for the price! I wasn't putting down Cerwin Vega, only clearing up the differences between the Cerwin Vega D-9/D-7 and Klipsch RF-7 with Paul's comment saying the Cerwin Vega D-9's blew away the Klipsch RF-7. This is just not possible! And the RF-7's have a bigger sound stage, it's not smaller. He must have heard one setup wrong or on not very good equipment. Both Cerwin Vega and Klipsch need quality equipment to sound good. Putting high quality or hi end on the RF-7's and you will quickly hear the limitations that Cerwin Vega can't go beyond where the RF-7's can, but there is a big price difference between the two so it's not really a fair compare. Enjoy!
 

Gold Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 1241
Registered: Jan-05
Hidy Pro,
I wont argue the finer points of your most recent response. I never listened to music on the RF7s anyway. They were connected in a soundroom with a plasma and I demo'd them by watching various movie segments while sitting on a comfy leather couch. And for Eddie, and yes, I listened up close too.....hahahaha

I agree entirely with your comment about the D-9 performance as it relates to the big rich movie theater sound that every theater strives for. I cant blame you for keeping the CVs if only to be used exclusively for movies. After recently going "OUT" to the movies for the first time in ages to watch the new Star Wars, I was shocked at how bad movie theaters really sound.

Until recently, I agreed with your D-9s 'not needing a sub' comment, but my views have now drastically changed. I bought a SVS PB12-plus/2 recently, and wow...........it was worth every penny!!

As for how they compare with music??? I dunno, and dont really care since I dont bother with 'that' stuff.
 

Anonymous
 
cerwin
 

CrustBucket
Unregistered guest
10 years ago I bought a sharp stereo system w/ 15" speakers. Afterwards I bought "used" 15" cerwin vega speakers. (cant remember model#).
without touching the volume they played twice as loud as the sharp 15" & blew them away. after owning them for 4 years someone kicked my door in & relieved me of them. only thing i had left that would plug into the wall was my griddle. after waiting 6 years (due to bad luck w/ electronics) i finaly bought 32" tv & decided i wanted a 5.1 surround system. i went to ultimate electronics and picked up a 6.1 yamaha reciever (90 watts per channel) for $360. i thought it sounded better then the cheaper yamahas and just as good as the more expensive ones. the dealer at the store hooked it up to a expensive klipsh 5.1 featering the $1,000 a piece klipsh speakers and they sounded great. then he switched to the $500 a piece tower speakers and i thought they sounded just as good (perhaps my budget affected
my judgement). the cheaper klipsh setups didnt impress me much. infinity speakers good but not klipsh good (close). b&w definatly comparable to klipsh. w/ fond memories (perhaps distorted) i looked up the cerwin vega website and hooked up w/ a local dealer. when he told me $350 a piece for the model e-715e i told him i can get it on the internet for $280. he quickly droped his price to $275 so i bought them. then he knocked $25 off the $150 e-76c center channel (sounds nice all dialoge understood) so i got that to. then on ebay i see the bookshelf speakers e706 $60 for pair buy now. yep u guessed it got them to (still waiting for shipment!) even though i didnt need it they had a 8" yamaha subwoofer at best buy for $100 orignaly $120 but it was an opened box item. im sure it will supply endless hours of enjoyment as i switch the phase from reverse to normal. some cd's helps the overall sound (van halen) some dous'nt (iron maiden). now i'm $1195 poorer and have big speakers crowded into a approx. 15 foot X 10 foot space.
primarily i like live concert 5.1 dvds (godsmack, ozzy live at budakon, zakk wilde, song remains the same, and even got a doctor hook. the CERWIN VEGA'S lend themselves well to
live concert recorded perfomances (i feel like a was there). however iv'e had promblems getting a sound i can be happy with on some cd's. the low mid's tend to overpower the highs and overall the
complete sound isn't as bright as other high end systems i listened to (see above). the guitars solo's dont scream like i would like them to. the highs aren't insane. on the positive side the drums sound huge (tom rolls kick and some of the low frequency surround effects almost make me wet my pants (crank up the last song on van halens fair warning w/ amp on neo 6). aside from a few death metal howlers the vocal are crisp and clear. sometimes when i'm fiddling w/ the amp i hear wacked out sounds that the artist's never intended me to hear (and i liked it). i've thought about putting an equilizer between the amp and the speakers. WILL THIS HELP? would upgrading to a larger amp help some of the clarity issues? any recommendations for what amp works best w/ CW's? since i got 2 unused connections for front channel "B" speakers
would adding a pair of horn tweeters help the i wont higher highs situation? if so what brand? in conclusion i dont think my "set up" sounds as good as the $2,000 to $4,000 (amp included) set ups. but overall its sounds as good or better as other brands in the same price range. you get what you pay for. any recomendations besides "get rid of it" will be appreiciated.









 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 986
Registered: Mar-05
I'd try the EQ first, that being the cheapest option and often can compensate for weak components. Look on eBay for AudioControl EQs, they have a very good reputation.
 

Silver Member
Username: Thx_3417

Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom

Post Number: 460
Registered: May-05
Hallo there

Paul
Why not add on an Alesis audio compressor 3630 and an Alesis M-EQ 230 1/3 octave EQ in-line with the L.F.E output going to the SVS sub bass and by adjusting the control settings on the audio compressor and the EQ you will get a lot, lot, lot, whole lot more shaking believe me.

ALESIS 3630 AUDIO COMPRESSOR
Upload

ALESIS M-EQ 230 EQ 1/3 OCTAVE
UploadUpload
 

jeffsgirl62
Unregistered guest
I have a pair of Cerwin Vega D-9's that I obtained for free a few years back, and now I'm looking to sell....How much do you think is a reasonable price to sell them for? Anyone interested?
 

Gold Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 1545
Registered: Jan-05
google the web and find out what others are selling them for.
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