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Big difference with bi-wiring?

 

Bronze Member
Username: James_the_god

Doncaster, South Yorkshire England

Post Number: 98
Registered: Jan-05
I've never ever actually compared the sound quality from non-biwired speakers and bi-wired speakers and wont be going to any demos unfortunately :-(....yet. However, with the difference in cost of PRE-TERMINATED speaker cable (or i might just go down to a dealer and ask them to make me some), would it be worth spending the money on some bi-wired speaker cable(about 5-6m long) for a room the size of roughly 3.5m by 2.8m. Note:I will be using 2 bookshelf speakers.
Thanks in advance
 

Anonymous
 
i would just use gauge 12 wires. and replace the jumpers w/ the same wires.

toy around w/ speaker placement and room treatments. zero cost, very noticeable results :-)

-beebee
 

Anonymous
 
i would just use gauge 12 wires. and replace the jumpers w/ the same wires.

toy around w/ speaker placement and room treatments. zero cost, very noticeable results :-)

-beebee
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 115
Registered: Feb-05
I have bi wired my Paradigm Monitor 5"s with inexpensive yet very good 12 ga speaker cable. And yes, it really does make a difference. I use Liberty Cable Ultra Cap THX 12 ga speaker cable at $2 per foot. Very good cable for the money. I terinated the amp end and used bare wire to the speakers.
 

Silver Member
Username: Danman

QUEBEC CANADA

Post Number: 128
Registered: Apr-04
I have also found that it makes a difference with my Wharfedale 9.6's. I also built some pretty expensive cables that are 10 gauge pure copper wire. It was kind of fun to do.

I was one of those that did not believe in speaker break in, bi-wiring or cables in general until I bought these speakers. The first time I plugged them up, they sounded very flat..........but after the changes and time, they now sound very different. I still own my AXIOM M60's and can compare. The AXIOMS are no where near as good as the 9.6 as they are bright and much weeker in the bass where the Wharfedales really shine. The mids are just perfect especially with voices and guitars without being as tinny like my M60's. The build quality is absolutely incredible for this price range.

But getting back to the question.........yes, I now believe that bi-wiring is beneficial depending on the speakers.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Goose

Post Number: 94
Registered: Feb-04
I have had Wharfedale Diamond 8.4s for about a year now. One early tweak that I tried was to replace the biwire jumpers with cable, as suggested above. This made a noticeable improvement in the treble especially. Some judicious placement tweaks (also suggested above) also helped.

However, the best thing I ever did with these speakers was not biwiring, but biamping. I recently started running a passive vertical biamp set-up using a couple of 10-year-old NAD stereo power amps, just for the heck of it. There is just no comparison with the old set-up: sweeter, purer, more airy treble, with deep, tight bass. But it goes beyond that. It's like a whole extra dimension has been added to the music, like all I knew before was just a wall of music, but now I hear a whole room full of music. I just want to listen to all of my CDs again to see what I have been missing all these years.

If you are familiar with the scene towards the end of "Scrooged" where Bill Murray's character is running around telling everyone "I GET IT NOW!" ... well, that's how I feel. If you have the chance, try it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Danman

QUEBEC CANADA

Post Number: 130
Registered: Apr-04
Totally agree Goose. I did this before as well but I sold my NAD272 recently as I am upgrading next month with either CREEK or Musical Fidelity (tough choice!). This will produce even better results by far.

If I go with the MF, I will get 2 X-P200's with the PREv3 and the CDXRAY v3. This way, I can bi-amp and have great sound.
 

Silver Member
Username: Gman

Mt. Pleasant, SC

Post Number: 648
Registered: Dec-03
Due to the laws of physics, there is no difference in bi-wiring to speakers from the same amplifier. Whether you connect one or 50 wires to the speaker from one amp, the same amount of power/signal arrives. The only difference in bi-wiring is an increase in effective wire diameter. This would only make a difference with those that have inadequate wire to begin with--and that is rare. Any 12-14 gauge wire is more than enough.

Bi-amping is different animal. With speaker wires coming from 2 different amps to a speaker that is designed to accept bi-amping, it will control the drivers better and give them larger power envelope to relieve any possible strain up to the design limitations.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 126
Registered: Feb-05
Laws of physics or not bi-wire your speakers and if it does not make a difference buy new speakers because something ain't right. However, bi-amping does make a more significant difference.
 

bumblebee
Unregistered guest
i biwired mine and didn't hear any differences because i didn't expect to hear any. but that's not to say that there isn't any. an increase in effective wire gauge may help but im using 12ga already.

i would conclude if i did some DBT ;)

hey, dynaudios can't be biwired. something not right w/ them?
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 128
Registered: Feb-05
Obviously speaking of speakers that can be bi-wired. Some Magnepans (MG12) can't be as well. It stands to reason that if a speaker can't be bi-wired then bi-wiring won't be effective.
 

Silver Member
Username: Cheapskate

Post Number: 143
Registered: Mar-04
if there's any real advantage to bi-wiring, it's just that it "widens" the path of pawer to speakers.

i do know for certain that 10 guage monster cable clearly sounds better than generic lamp cord, especially in the bass.

if i weren't bi-AMPING, i'd just use a bigger cable instead of two smaller cables.

alot of tweaking recommendations in magazines are TOTAL BS. i mean using tape demagnetizers on CDS! come on! aluminum is totally NON-FERROUS. if it can't be magnetized, it can't be demagnetized. even if it could... CDs are optical and not magnetic anyways.

hype sure does please one's advertisers though.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 136
Registered: Feb-05
Well said budget minded. A whole lot of audio crap is...well....audio crap! You just have to wade through it, try the cheap tweaks and ignore the expensive. That is unless you are made of money, and I am not.
 

bumblebee
Unregistered guest
maybe it's because those manufacturers don't believe in biwiring :-) or biamping even.

biwirable and non biwirable speakers uses cross-over circuits. they all work in the same manner.
and you can always change the binding posts.
 

Martin12345
Unregistered guest
It makes a big diference in space and clarity :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Danman

QUEBEC CANADA

Post Number: 133
Registered: Apr-04
Sorry....don't agree with you bumblebee. I have seen 99% of all speaker manufacturers ranging from 300$ to 100000$ and all have bi-wiring(or tri) capabilities. I seriously doubt that manufacturers would waste time and money developing something that was not feasable! It is all in the cross-over and the way that it is made. Also, the best way to have results is an amp with A and B speaker outputs. This plays a little with the impedance levels giving better dynamics.

Like everything in audio, subjects such as these are very opinion based which makes sense but some things work and some don't. As I mentioned elsewhere, when I bought my AXIOM M60's, the company said that speaker break-in was all BS..........and I believed it until I bought my Wharfedale 9.6's. The first time I hooked them up, I thought I had mismatched the wires as the sound was rather bad compared to what I had heard in the store and compared to my AXIOM's! I called and was informed that it was because they were not broken in. I decided to speed up the process by letting them play non-stop for 48 hours while I was away on business. I made sure that I had proper electrical safety mechanisms in case of voltage spikes etc....When I returned, the sound I heard before was not the same. This I could prove as I still have the AXIOMS to compare to and they are now in the process of being used only in home theatre set-up as musically, they cannot come even close to the 9.6! I would of never believed this before!
 

New member
Username: Martin12345

Ostrava, Czech republic

Post Number: 3
Registered: Apr-05
If You have only one output (not A and B) it's no problem, conect both wire in the same output
 

bumblebee
Unregistered guest
danman,

your diamond manual says you get the benefit of biwiring using one output terminal. not A+B.

i heard jm labs new models are not biwirable anymore?

all things mechanical benefit from break in. the axiom and wharf use different materials and break in may have different effects on them.
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