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Which spkr cables?

 

Bronze Member
Username: Shahrukhd

Mumbai, Maharashtra India

Post Number: 12
Registered: Nov-04
Am planning to pair the Wharfedale Diamond 8.1s with a Marantz 4400. Which are the best budget cables I should use? I would definitely want to bi-wire my wharfies.
 

Silver Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 381
Registered: Sep-04
Better to buy a better pair of single runs than double up the problems in a two pairs of cheaper runs...

Try QED Silver Anniversary to liven up the combination a little.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Shahrukhd

Mumbai, Maharashtra India

Post Number: 14
Registered: Nov-04
Thanks Frank. Are these biwire cables?
 

Silver Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 383
Registered: Sep-04
There is a biwire version. Another option would be Chord Carnival Silver Plus, also sporting a biwire version.

Of course, as I said earlier, a single run of Chord Rumour would be better than a biwired run of Carnival Silver Plus generally.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Shahrukhd

Mumbai, Maharashtra India

Post Number: 15
Registered: Nov-04
How good is QED Original Mk III (b/w) for this setup? Frank, I'll give the Chords a look up.
 

Silver Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 384
Registered: Sep-04
QED Original is a good basic cable, but silver anniversary has quite a bit more resolution with cleaner, more open treble and better definition in the bass.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Anonymous
 
LOL. Cables with greater resolution, cleaner treble and better bass definition... As IF!

People make claims about the "sound" of various cables. Can anyone offer real data to back up those claims? The "I can hear it, if you can't then you don't know Hi-Fi" arguments are getting a bit stale.

I saw Jesus' face in a tortilla once, too.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Reggie_lives

Post Number: 20
Registered: Dec-04
If you have a ligitimate suggestion for Shahrukh D, please express it.

If you want to troll and start a flame war about whether or not cables make a difference, there's one already started. Go make stupid comments in this thread. I'm sure your voice will be embraced with open arms.

https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/119996.html

(My opinion on cables is irrelevant, but for the record I'm just using cheap 16guag radio shack wire. I'm just tired of seeing people debate this topic so moronically.)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jim_mcbob

Post Number: 36
Registered: Nov-04
I was gonna say visit the speaker wire thread too, but I gotta say, Grant, that you don't exactly do a hell of a lot to restore a high level of discourse in this debate--especially since you claim to have such a low threshold for "stupid" comments.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jim_mcbob

Post Number: 37
Registered: Nov-04
ps, I'm kind of speaker wire agnostic--I have opinions about some of the claims hereabout, but will keep them to myself.

I use 10 ga OFC spool wire from a local electrical supply house with banana plugs at the amplifier end, and spade lugs going to the speakers. Maybe more gets you more; maybe not.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=091-330

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=091-315

Best of luck.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Reggie_lives

Post Number: 21
Registered: Dec-04
Jim-Bob - I was simply directing him to a thread which was already debating his argument.

 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 142
Registered: Jan-05
12ga speaker wire from Lows for $.38/ft is all I need:-)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Shahrukhd

Mumbai, Maharashtra India

Post Number: 16
Registered: Nov-04
Thanks all! Anon, Grant, Yeah I've read that big cable debate. Thing is, this is going to be "my" first separates system. The earlier one was an uncle's. I just listened to it and used it. That's it. I know nothin about set up and different gauges (Paul, help me out here). Plus, there are very few dealers here in India who'll make u listen to cables. Which is why I put up my question on this forum. Also, is it really necessary to add terminations right now. Considering I'm on a tight budget? Can't I just start of with naked wire? Jim Bob? The dealer's givin me some chinese cable. 16ga OFC,. Is that good enough?
 

Silver Member
Username: Shantao

Post Number: 121
Registered: Apr-04
Shahruk;

16 guage is fine for under 15 - 20 feet or so, If I was going any longer I would increase the wire size. (If you have a lot of that 16 guage, make 2 runs, and twist the pairs of strands together to make to wires and use that , it effectively makes it 13 guage at that point and saves you money).

As for bare wire, that is also fine, but understand that wire will tarnish/corrode over time, so leave a little extra wire so you can cut the ends and restrip them from time to time. Also, make sure you don't have any loose strands of wire sticking out to short things.

Have fun on your new system!
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 150
Registered: Jan-05
Plus you might be concerned with other metals coming into contact with your wire if it's bare.

Im not sure of the possible effects, but it cant be good, right?

As for the length of runs, you can ask 100 people, and get 100 different answers.

I've heard that anywhere from 15-50ft would be OK with 16GA wire depending on who you ask. Which is right???......I have no idea. I usually try to error on the safe side whenever possible. I have a couple fairly long runs so I personally went with heavier wire.
 

Silver Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 387
Registered: Sep-04
Shahrukh

If you have some free cable, it's a reasonable gauge and money's tight, then stick with it. If it's unterminated, that's a pity. Can you at least have the ends tinned? This would lower the chance of corrosion. Tinning isn't a very good solution from the connectionpoint of view, but from the corrosion point of view it's the best option here.

I'd imagine that QED cable is not going to be cheap over in India - it's got a long way to go. Your dealer may have sourced a better priced cable, being closer to China.

Anon, what I described was my observation between the QED cables. <sarcasm> Don't tell the rest of us there's no difference just coz you're deaf...</sarcasm>

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Shahrukhd

Mumbai, Maharashtra India

Post Number: 20
Registered: Nov-04
Yup, Chinese stuff sells pretty cheap here. This is what I intend to do: Use the ordinary cable initially (a single run, unterminated), then change to QEDs in 2 - 3 month's time when the $$$ comes back in. (A lot of people seem to be recommending the QEDs for the Wharfie/Marantz system) and yes, I'll terminate those with spades. Oh, and there's one more thing I wanted to ask. When biwiring, I twist two cables together and push them in the same binding post on the receiver, right? (My Marantz doesn't have A/B speaker connections). I know this is a "biwiring question" for a different post and there are many links out there but I think you guys understand my system. Thanks a lot.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kano

Post Number: 372
Registered: Oct-04
"I saw Jesus' face in a tortilla once, too."

Should have sold it on Ebay -


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19270%26item%3D5535890757 %26
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 181
Registered: Jan-05
C'mon........

That isnt Jesus........

How can you mistake an image that is obviously Marilyn Monroe with Jesus?
 

Anonymous
 
Frank: <sarcasm> Don't tell the rest of us there's no difference just coz you're deaf...</sarcasm>

What?

And, Paul, it turns out the face wasn't Jesus, but Ted Nugent.
 

Silver Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 391
Registered: Sep-04
Shahrukh,

Yes, to biwire, twist both positives togetherand stuff into the positive terminal and do the same for the negatives.

For the future, personally I don't get on with spades. Too much metal in my view, and this is a common view in the UK. The Americans seem to love spades on the other hand.

Anon, I like it - I deserved that! :-)

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Shahrukhd

Mumbai, Maharashtra India

Post Number: 23
Registered: Nov-04
Hey thanks Frank. And thanks all. I'll let y'all know once I set things up.
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 217
Registered: Jan-05
If you're going to biwire, you'll probably want to use bananna plugs. I'd like to see somebody stuff two 12AWG wires into the same hole because one barely fits. Personally, biwiring seems silly to me though.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Shahrukhd

Mumbai, Maharashtra India

Post Number: 25
Registered: Nov-04
OK, I bought a really cheap pair of Chinese OFCs. Single runs. And my Diamonds sound awesome. I'm waiting till the speakers break in before I bi-wire them. Then if I notice a considerable sound difference, I'll go in for the QEDs. Otherwise these cables are treating me just fine.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Diablo

Fylde Coast, England

Post Number: 56
Registered: Dec-04
Chinese OFCs?? Nah, they are rubbish, you need Taiwanese OFCs for real quality (like I've got)! And don't let anyone tell you different!

I'm pleased that you like 'em.

Biwiring may seem to make them sound better. :-)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Shahrukhd

Mumbai, Maharashtra India

Post Number: 32
Registered: Nov-04
Frank: Yes, to biwire, twist both positives togetherand stuff into the positive terminal and do the same for the negatives.


This may sound stupid, but how do I tell which part of the cable is positive and which part is negative? I thought any cable attached to the positive terminal/post on the amp/speaker is positive... and so on...?
 

Silver Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 421
Registered: Sep-04
Shahrukh

Some speaker cables are directional. They're usually marked in some way to indicate the direction and the positive side. If they're not marked then there's no way of knowing and you'll simply have to toss a coin.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Silver Member
Username: Gavincumm

Post Number: 135
Registered: Feb-05
I use Canare 4S8 speaker cable with outstanding results! smooth is the name of the game! nothing added and nothing removed! give Canare cable a shot, you will love it.

On an even better note, Canare cable is not only great, it has a great price! If you cant find it online, go to ebay, thats where I got mine new, for the legnth I wanted.
 

Silver Member
Username: Gavincumm

Post Number: 136
Registered: Feb-05
I use Canare 4S8 speaker cable with outstanding results! smooth is the name of the game! nothing added and nothing removed! give Canare cable a shot, you will love it.

On an even better note, Canare cable is not only great, it has a great price! If you cant find it online, go to ebay, thats where I got mine new, for the legnth I wanted.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Diablo

Fylde Coast, England

Post Number: 60
Registered: Dec-04
Shahrukh,

Speaker wire is usually marked in some way, usually by a 'line' or writing along one of the pair. Thus you can connect the red terminal on the amp to the red on the speaker. Ditto with black obviously.

If you have been sold wire which is not marked in any way then you will need to follow its path to connect up correctly. Actually, there ought to be no speaker wire which is not marked - it is an essential part of proper speaker cable.

If you get the wires the wrong way round when single wiring, you should notice a loss of bass, as the big displacements in cone movements will cancel each other out. But this is not a danger.

There would be a big problem if you were bi-wiring and got the wires wrong - this would short circuit the amp! The amp may either shut itself down or possibly get destroyed.

A cheap mutimeter may be a good investment if you have unmarked cables - or preferably exchange the cables for Taiwanese ones which ARE marked! :-)

Apologies if you were actually asking about 'directional' cables. If these do exist, then they should not - the voltages transmitted to a loudspeaker are not direct current, they are alternating current and the amp does not even try to send anything directionally. Directional cables are 'snake oil'.

Regards,
diablo
 

Bronze Member
Username: Shahrukhd

Mumbai, Maharashtra India

Post Number: 36
Registered: Nov-04
Thanks all. But I'm still a bit confused. If you looked at a piece of unmarked cable, is it possible to tell which "should" go into the red terminals and which in the black? i.e. Connect this to the red and this to the black??

(Am I making any sense here??)
 

Jasdeep Brar
Unregistered guest
Hi Shahrukh,

I will recommend you Canare Star Quad Speaker cables, Studio Grade stuff. Available in 4 Core versions. You can use them for biwiring.

4S6 - 6.4mm O.D., 17 AWG (Twined) Type (Will Work)

4S8 - 8.3mm O.D., 13 AWG (Twined) Type (Ideal)

4S11 - 10.7mm O.D., 11 AWG (Twined) Type (Will be a problem hooking up at the amplifier end)

These are excellent cables. Highly recommended.

Basically IMHO cables should have negligible resistant and have quality copper which should not oxidise, thats all. If possible change the cable inside your speakers (For ultimate SQ :-)) get rid of slip on type connectors on the drive units and solder the wire directly.

If Canare is unavailable you can use Sommer or Belden Cable also which is easily available in Mumbai.

I personally use Silversonic Q-10 (Silver Tinned) with my Tannoy's again four core but expensive.

Regards,

Jasdeep Brar
New Delhi
 

Silver Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 425
Registered: Sep-04
Shahrukh

If the cables aren't marked, there's no way to tell.

Diablo, cable manufacturers and dealers are hardly likely to go through the palaver of ensuring the cables are the right way around if it dooesn't make a difference. That would be a waste of time, and the last thing a dealer wants to do is waste his time. Granted, directionality is a subtle thing, but it's there so you might as well wire up correctly if you have the markings.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Rayt
Unregistered guest
Get the Canare 4S11 cables from here, they are four conductor so it's ready for biwire ($1.05/ft)

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm


They will terminate them for you if you want, but better to buy the cable, and some banana plugs and do the 5 minutes of labour yourself.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Diablo

Fylde Coast, England

Post Number: 62
Registered: Dec-04
Frank,
I tend to agree with most of the advice which you post on this forum. However, in this thread we are not talking about the very expensive type cables which have a construction which makes it absolutely clear that it is supposed to be directional, such as AudioQuest Everest (a fine looking cable, to be sure -- but I leave it to the reader's judgment as to how much snake oil is involved in its design and marketing)

This thread is concerned about cables which are, more than likely, made from extruded or drawn copper wire. It is difficult to see how directional such simple stuff can be. I did a quick Google on "directional sspeaker cable" and can up with this thread which discusses the directional properties of QED cable - thread about directional cable.

I was amused to find (on page two of the thread), an email response from QED about directionality, which reads
"Dear David,
unfortunately our marketing department doesn't like to offend people who
believe in the "burn in" and directionality theory of speaker cables. If
you subscribe to these theories, you may choose to arrange the QED Original
cable so that the writing points from the amplifier, towards the the
speaker.

If, like me, you don't believe a piece of copper can behave like a diode,
you may safely ignore the advice!
Sorry to have worried you for the sake of political correctness,
Yours sincerely
XXXXXX XXXXXXX
xxxx@qed.co.uk
QED AUDIO PRODUCTS LTD,"


Regards,
diablo

 

Silver Member
Username: Tevo

Chicago, IL USA

Post Number: 127
Registered: Feb-05
Additional info about cables, voodoo and snake oil:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/top10cablesnak eoil.php

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/audiocablessna keoil.php
 

Unregistered guest
Personally, I find my Monster cables to be stellar. Then again I've just upgraded from 10 yr old Radio Shack wire. Plus I own a webtv, so, for the love of God, don't take my word for it.
 

anony
Unregistered guest
hey shah, cables aren't marked?
Dude, here you go. Take a 9volt battry, say from your smoke detector(you have those, right)?, and put the right hand wire(no the other right) on the round thingy of the battery. Good. Now put the other right hand wire on the other end. K? Good.
Now put the loose wire on the tip of your male liquid waste discharge unit. With me? Now put the other (last) wire on the tip of your tongue(the stupid question discharge unit).
If your face gets all squirmy, then it is left hand current. If your human waste end gets all tingly, its the other left hand current.
And neither end is useful at all.

Study hard, there will be a test
 

rb
Unregistered guest
male liquid discharge unit?
Choice, man, choice.
 

mauimusicman
Unregistered guest
Annonymous.....your posts regarding the fact that "YOU can't hear any differences in wire therefore there are none" is whats getting old. All your telling us is that your ears suck. As far as your tortilla.....sell it on E-bay!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Shahrukhd

Mumbai, Maharashtra India

Post Number: 42
Registered: Nov-04
Kid-A. I listened to Monster Cables. Personally I didn't find any real difference when compared to my current ones.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jim_mcbob

Post Number: 57
Registered: Nov-04
Ha. Cables. Current. Good one!


Here's more grist for the mill: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

The guy's a titan in the hi-fi biz.

FWIW: Mauimusicman says Russel's old and that his ears no longer work, so he can't hear the difference between one hank of copper and another. I'll spare you my opinions of Mauimusicman (except that he regularly posits that only one brand of speaker accurately relays a musican't intent--all others are garbage.)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blasterman

Post Number: 13
Registered: Mar-05
I've come to call people who are obsessed with speaker cable and interconnects as 'cable-philes' and not audiophiles. These are basically individuals who seem to have a lot disposable income to waste on this stuff.

What irks me is they seem to be convinced that some types of speaker cable actually *improve* the sound. This is absurd because if I wanted to null out the cable debate completely I'd hot solder my monoblocks directy to my speaker terminals and eliminate the cables all together. Or opt for an active design. So there.

I've done my own tests and concluded that only solid core stiff cable can produce a slightly different sonic signature in terms of phase than braided, but I've never been able to tell braided brands apart.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jim_mcbob

Post Number: 58
Registered: Nov-04
What irks me is they seem to be convinced that some types of speaker cable actually *improve* the sound. This is absurd because if I wanted to null out the cable debate completely I'd hot solder my monoblocks directy to my speaker terminals and eliminate the cables all together. Or opt for an active design. So there.

LOL. But then you'd get folks arguing about what kind of solder is best for sound reproduction. Then there are the interconnects you use between the sources and amps....

As of today, my mind is changed. It's just easier to believe that cables are magical.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Shahrukhd

Mumbai, Maharashtra India

Post Number: 44
Registered: Nov-04
Can someone explain me what tinning is? Frank has asked me to tin the ends of my cables. How do I do that?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Diablo

Fylde Coast, England

Post Number: 73
Registered: Dec-04
I assume that he means for you to twist and shape the wire to fit the place it is to go into and then apply a very thin layer solder onto it.

If you do this then it is better to use use solder with a high silver content. This will prevent oxidisation of the copper and maximise conduction.

I don't think it is needed, provided you leave a few inches spare at each connection point, and cut off the potentialy corroded bit and strip back to pure copper every 2 years.

Opinions are divided on this though, as with everything else - you might have noticed this by now. lol :-)
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