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Do I need a sub?

 

KBear
Unregistered guest
I just got a Denon UD-M50 microsystem, with Energy C-1 speakers. It sounds great but on certain songs the sound is a bit boomy. It tends to happen with a lot of the harder rocking songs, GN'R mainly is what I listen to. Softer stuff sounds great though.

So, I'm thinking that a sub taking care of lower frequencies will help tighten things up a bit. Looking at some subs, there is a crossover range given in the stats. Am I correct in thinking you can specify which freqency you want the sub to play at (and below), and the speakers will take care of anything higher?

My speakers are rated to go down to 53Hz. Can I set the subwoofer to play at anything under 70 or 75 Hz? Am I understanding this correctly? And if you do this...do you change the setting on the subwoofer or on the receiver? I think you'd have to set it on the receiver b/c that's what is sending the information to the speakers and to the sub, right? If you were to change this on the subwoofer, how would the receiver know what to do? And yet, I don't see this option on my receiver from the casual inspection I gave it so far.

Or do I just not have a clue how this works? (Probably!)

Thanks in advance.
 

edster922
Unregistered guest
The key here is, check and see if your Denon has any bass management, i.e. crossover, options. Being a microsystem I would doubt it unless it were a very high end one.

If it does have a crossover then you can have all the frequencies under say 80 or 100 Hz sent directly to the sub and let the mains handle only the higher ones, which they will probably fare much better with. If not, the sub will only add more/deepr bass but the distorted bass coming out of your speakers right now will remain.

Of course, the first thing to check is the back of your microsystem to see if it even has a subwoofer pre-out plug.
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Well I can connect a subwoofer, if that's what you mean by a pre-out plug. The Denon manual talks about it. I will check for those crossover options. Thanks edster.

I guess, if it does not have that, I can switch those speakers for a pair that does not go down to such a low frequency, like Missions or the Axiom M2i.

Thanks again...that really clears things up for me!
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Okay, I checked the back of my Denon and yes, it does have a pre-out plug and this is where the subwoofer connection is supposed to go as per the manual. So that's okay.

However, as you suspected edster, it doesn't have any crossover options. I spoke with one of the dudes at the audio store, and he suggested I do it this way: connect a subwoofer to the Denon, and then connect the speakers to the subwoofer. In other words, the connection would go like so: Denon -----> Sub ------> Speakers

At that point I could set the crossover options on the sub and that should work well. Just thought I'd run this by the board here. Could you guys tell me if this is a viable option? Thank you!

While I'm at it, another question for you guys...I've read that having proper connections (eg. banana) is better than bare speaker wire. The guy at the audio store told me that in reality bare speaker wire is better, and the connectors actually degrade performance. In my speaker manual, Energy recommends using spade lugs as they provide "more contact with the terminal" and can be "tightened for a secure connection." What are your opinions on this?

Thanks again.
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Well I've looked into it a bit and it seems that it indeed is a viable option. I'd still like to hear opinions on this from everyone however.

So I think I'll take advantage of the Boxing day sales and get either a PSB Subzero i, or a Mission MS8. The PSB is $400 and the Mission $350, but they will go on sale tomorrow at 2001 Audio Video. So I'm hoping I can possibly add the Mission for $250. I've decided to go with a PSB or Mission because they are well respected speaker brands, so I'm assuming their subs will be more than adequate. I realize they aren't HSU or what have you, but for my purposes I think they will be more than sufficient. I am looking to spend less than $500, and less than $400 would be ideal.

Other brands I can still purchase that are affordable are Polk, Velodyne, and perhaps JBL (though the JBL's might be too expensive). These brands are all at Best Buy/Future Shop.

Still would like to hear opinions on those connectors.

Thanks.
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Update: am considering Mission MS8, Definitive ProSub 60, Velodyne DPS-10B, and Paradigm PDR-8.

Still in the running are PSB Subzeroi, and PSB Subsonic5...though I am less likely to get one of these.

Haven't actually looked at any of these in person yet...will do so tomorrow.

I think ideally what I'm looking for is an 8" woofer, with high level speaker inputs and outputs (I don't believe the Subzeroi has outputs).

I'd simply go with the Missions but they only go down to 38Hz...the others go lower so I have to decide if 38 is enough or not.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Natediggidy

Baltimore, Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 73
Registered: May-04
A sub will let your speakers play cleaner even if your system has no setting to limit bass to the mains. Properly set, the sub fills in that bass so your Energy C-1's aren't overworked.

Unless you have a very high-end system, there's very little chance of hearing an audible dif between bare wire, banana's, spades, etc.

 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Thanks Nathan. I'm going to try hooking up the sub via the pre out and see how that sounds. My thinking is that the Denon should have a fixed crossover that it utilizes when a sub is connected. Therefore, no sub connected then send the entire signal to the speakers. With a sub connected, send the lower frequency stuff to the sub.

It probably doesn't work that way though. The manual doesn't mention anything. If I don't like the sound with the pre out, I can always use the speaker inputs and outputs on the sub, and then I'll be able to vary the crossover.
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
I got the Mission for $285 and I have to say that a sub makes a world of difference. I used the pre out and it sounds fine so I won't go with the high level speaker connections. I don't know why it helps this much, and what frequencies the sub is handling and what frequencies the speakers are handling, but I guess it doesn't really matter as long as the sound is right.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Natediggidy

Baltimore, Maryland U.S.A.

Post Number: 74
Registered: May-04
That's what counts ;^)
 

Anonymous
 
I have a Denon UD M50 and have just bought an Optical Out cable for it to link to my PS2 but I dont have the Manual for it and dont know what to do now.
 

Unregistered guest
Hey audio maniac - mind sending me an e-mail @ cjshull@gmail.com with your knowledge - I'm building a home audio system, your port tuning seems awfully low to me - I'd like to know the formula involed and to pick you a little deeper so I know what the hell I'm doing.
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