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Speakers for Denon UD-M50

 

KBear
Unregistered guest
I posted the following on the mini-system board, but since it deals with speakers I thought I'd ask here too. BTW, with this system, the default speakers that Denon uses are Mission MS-50. You can view the product page here:

http://www.denon.ca/html/product_display.asp?id=29

The PDF document they have gives more detail on the system. Here's my post:

I'll probably pick this baby up. I'm just trying to determine speakers. If the amp says 30W + 30W (6ohms), does that mean you have to get speakers that are quoted at 6 ohms? There is a pair of Polk speakers I think I'd love to buy with this system, but they are quoted at 8 ohms. Not sure what to do. I may just go with the Missions that come with the system, they did sound really nice.

Others I'm still considering are the Yamaha MCR-E300 and the Onkyo MC35TECH...but the Denon looked and sounded great so I'm leaning in that direction. I'd love to find the Onkyo somewhere, but little luck so far.

As I said, I'm confused with matching speakers and amp. Stuff I've read only confuses me more. If anyone can help, that'd be great.
 

New member
Username: Dloweman

Post Number: 7
Registered: Nov-04
If the receiver can play into 6 ohms, then it can also power 8 ohms since they require less power. The denon and yamaha both sound very nice with paradigm speakers, if i had a budget and a little more info i could help out a bit more. If the missions sound good to you, then that is all that matters.
derek
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Thanks Derek. One store I looked at will pair the Denon with Paradigms. I didn't listen to the system hooked up with those speakers though. I probably should give that a listen.

I'm in Canada. The system will cost about $500. I am prepared to pay somewhere around $200-300 for a pair of speakers. The Polks I'm eyeing are the Monitor 30s. If you could recommend a pair of Paradigms that would be awesome. I'll check them out.

And thanks for the Ohms explanation. That one simple sentence I think has gotten my brain wrapped around the concept a bit better.
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
This aft I went to a small store that carried pretty much all Onkyo stuff. I asked the guy there about Denon and he said that they used to be good but then Hitachi bought them and since then it's been all downhill. He went on about how Onkyo makes their own transistors and all this other technical stuff (which went way over my head) explaining why Onkyo is way better. He said Denon uses 1-bit MASH technology which is inferior. He also said Hitachi is trying to make Denon a mass market brand, which struck me as wrong b/c you don't see Denon in places like Best Buy, at least I haven't.

Anyways, it kind of makes me re-think buying Denon, even though I think he was blowing a lot of hot air. Anyone have any thoughts?

As for speakers, he said if I wanted I could upgrade the Onkyo speakers with a pair of Angstrom Omega 5s. Said this speaker which is priced at $250/pair blows away speakers at ten times the price. You can read some of the stuff on these if you type the name into google, including a review from the Inner Ear Report which goes into what he said a little bit.

Anyways, I'm going to check out Onkyo at a bigger (possibly more reputable store) later this week, a store that carries lots of different brands. Just thought I'd ask for everyone's opinion on these Angstrom speakers as well as Onkyo's supposed superiority.

The price of the Onkyo was pretty nice though...$699 with speakers, $599 without on sale, regular price is $899.

To be honest I'm sure I can't go wrong with any of these choices, but still, I want to make the best choice I possibly can.
 

New member
Username: Dloweman

Post Number: 9
Registered: Nov-04
kbear,
i live in kitchener ontario, and just bought some paradigm speakers. They are a Canadian Company and are a great value here, the mini-monitor version 3s are being replaced with v4, so you can find deals on them for around 400. If that is too expensive, then go for the paradigm titans for around 229 plus tax. I use them for rears, and used them as fronts for a while in my home theatre. They are a great little speaker for the money. I think the denon will do you just fine, if you want you can look into NAD which has amazing 2 channel sound, but may be too much money than what you are looking to spend. let me know how you make out
derek
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Thanks again derek.

I'll find out which Paradigm speakers that store is suggesting to add to the Denon.

This is a real newbie question, but how do you determine which speaker to buy? Can you tell by what is written in the spec and features list whether it's a good speaker or not, or does it all come down to testing them out?

Any opinion on the Polks?
 

New member
Username: Dloweman

Post Number: 10
Registered: Nov-04
Unfortunately it all comes down to listening, I am just getting into audio, and haven't listened to polks as of yet, but i think they have good speakers. Reading reviews on here you can learn alot about what speakers are considered quality or best for the money. That being said, a speaker with a higher sensitivity is easier to drive to louder levels. So 89db is easier to drive than a speaker with 87db sensitivity, plus you should try to get 8 ohms speakers as they are easier to drive. Listen to the polks, psb is also canadian and match well with denon, and paradigm. Best of luck.
derek
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
I did a bit of reading up on speakers in one of Sound & Vision's Buyer's Guide mags from a couple of years ago that I had purchased. They talked about looking at the total range of a speaker and it's deviation, as well as the sensitivity which you mentioned Derek.

I must say, in comparing the Paradigm's stats vs. those of the Polks and Missions, the Paradigms seem to be significantly better. A greater range and higher sensitivity, which are things I would like from a speaker now that I get what they mean! Everything I've read about Paradigm is positive. So I'm starting to lean in that direction...hopefully I can get a pair of Monitor 3s for a good price. If not I may have to settle for the mini's...we'll see.

Still gonna look at other brands. If anyone's got any other recommendations of speakers with a wide range and high sensitivity that would pair well with a Denon microsystem, that would be much appreciated.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Dloweman

Post Number: 11
Registered: Nov-04
You could look into B&W, however i think they might run you around 450 for a nice set with 6.5 inch woofers and a 1 inch tweeter in them.
sounds like you are getting into this stuff, watch out, it is very addictive, go and listen to some stuff, that is the best way to figure out what you like.
derek
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Listened to the Onkyo and Yamaha today. I think I'm still leaning towards the Denon...but the Yamaha is the best in terms of price...so it's still in the conversation. And the Yamaha speakers are things of complete beauty. It didn't sound bad at all and I think I would enjoy that system if I find the Denon too hard on the bank account. Nevertheless...

Additional speakers I am considering are:

Athena AS-B1
Athena AS-B2

Axiom M3
Axiom M22ti

Klipsh Reference RB-25

and of course the Paradigm Mini Monitors and Titans.

If anyone has any thoughts or comments, fire away! I think the above are good matches for a microsystem b/c they should be easy to drive and they can reach relatively low frequencies for bookshelf speakers, so since I don't plan on adding a subwoofer I think they can compensate for that better than other speakers can.

I am still really new at this...are these speakers a good match for a Denon or Yamaha system? I think Denon and Yamaha are usually bright sounding...is that correct? Are these speakers bright as well, or soft? I've listened to all the systems, with the default speakers (ie. the ones provided by Yamaha, Denon, and Onkyo), but I find it hard to tell...probably b/c I just haven't done this for very long.

Yes Derek...this stuff is addictive! But I don't see myself upgrading a lot in the future. I just want a nice micro, and a nice home theatre, and I think I'll be content with that for a long time to come. But then again, who knows? Maybe I'll get the itch and have to scratch it. Time will tell.
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Actually, now that I read a bit more, a subwoofer might not be a bad idea as an addition one day. I guess it lets the speaker focus on the higher ranges. Another thing to consider, but not yet.
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
I think Klipsch are out. A salesman told me today that the way they build speakers is more suited to filling large rooms with sound, not for use in small rooms with a microsystem.

So my cheap options are Athena AS-B1 and AS-B2.

More money but the Axiom M3's look really good and they are high on my list right now. Then there are the Paradigm MiniMonitors...and that same salesman told me that Paradigm Atoms are a good match with the Denon. I may also consider the Pinnacle P5.2.

One question I do have is that the salesman expressed some hesitation it seemed, in matching the Denon with the MiniMonitors. He said that speaker can handle much more wattage. I'm wondering if you have a speaker that can handle around 100w/channel, but you feed it only 30w per channel...does the sound quality suffer at all?
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
In summary, and after a bit of weeding out, it looks like it'll come down to one of these:

Paradigm Atom
Paradigm MiniMonitor
Axiom M3ti
Axiom M3i
Pinnacle P5.2

and throw in the Energy C-1 too.

If anyone has any feedback on these, and how they'd match with a Denon or Yamaha micro, please let me know!
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
In summary, and after a bit of weeding out, it looks like it'll come down to one of these:

Paradigm Atom
Paradigm MiniMonitor
Axiom M3ti
Axiom M2i
Pinnacle P5.2

and throw in the Energy C-1 too.

If anyone has any feedback on these, and how they'd match with a Denon or Yamaha micro, please let me know!
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Sorry for all the posts.

Not considering the Pinnacle, am considering Energy XL-150 as the lesser priced option from Energy.

Lots of store hopping to be done now.
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
After some deliberation it's down to three: the Paradigm Atom, Axiom M3ti, and Energy C-1.

I'm really leaning towards the Axioms now. The others look great but I'm very impressed with both the stats and reviews of the Axiom. I was going to get the Axiom M2i over the 3ti but a review noted that you are much less needing of a subwoofer with the 3 and this for just $20 more, so I think I'll go that route.

That's $1,000 on a micro. I'm not sure I really want to do this...but I figure it'll probably last twenty years and I'll use it a ton and I want something really nice for a change. I've been listening to a Sony boombox with integrated speakers for twelve years now, and for what it is I think it's pretty darn good but it's time to upgrade! A home theatre is years away.

My cheapest option, which I'm still considering, is to buy the Yamaha and pair it with the C-1s or Atoms, which would run me about $700. I'm going to take a listen to it and the Denon this week, hooked up to the same speakers, and do a head-to-head comparison. Of course, I could pair the Yamaha with the Axioms too but not save as much dough.

Almost there!
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Quick question for everyone...the Axioms are rear ported and I was just wondering how close to the wall can they be placed? I know with rear ported speakers you can't put them too close. Unfortunately I want to put this system in a pretty small room and can't get them too far away from the walls. I plan to put them about 9 inches away.

The Energy C-1s I'm still considering are front ported...so I may have to go that route. Either that or PSB Image 1B speakers, which are also front ported. Thanks.
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Well I decided to go with the Energy C-1 speakers. They have the stats I'm looking for, good reviews for that line, front ported so I shouldn't have problems placing them, and above all they sounded really nice with the Denon. The others from Paradigm and Axiom look amazing, but after I listened to the C-1s and really liked the sound, and at only $280Cdn per pair (they are on sale), plus the other stuff going for them, I figure it's the most prudent purchase.

Will purchase on Saturday and set it all up. I can't wait!
 

New member
Username: Wolfdog22us

Post Number: 3
Registered: Dec-04
Polk R30's probably would have sound just as good for half the price per pair.
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Set everything up and have been playing it much of today. All in all I'm really happy with the system and it seems to sound better the more I play it (speaker break in I guess, or maybe just my imagination!).

I think the C-1's are probably a bright speaker. Maybe not the best match with a Denon. When I have the Denon set on Source Direct it can get a bit hard to listen to. But when I turn the treble down one notch it's great...a very clean sound but also full. I think it's a nice balance.

Axioms (maybe) or Paradigms might be a better match, but I just can't have a rear ported speaker right now. I'm thinking when I build my HT in a few years, use the C-1s in that along with other Energy speakers, match it to a warm receiver like a Pioneer Elite or a Marantz, and then buy either the Axioms or Paradigms to put with the Denon when I have more room to place them.
 

New member
Username: Reggie_lives

Post Number: 2
Registered: Dec-04
Where abouts in Canada are you? I've been looking at the Energy C1's, and that's a good price.

Also, since i'm new to this hi-fi game, I thought i'd ask a quesiton. I'm thinking of getting the Denon AVR-175, and was going to pair them with the C1's.

I realize that Energy also makes specific surround speakers to go with the Connoissur lineup of speakers, but how unorthodox would it be to use the C1's as surround speakers?

I ask because my only hesitation in the C1's is that down the line, I will feel i need more power. If this occurs, would it be kosher to get either C3's, or C5's as fronts, and use the C1's as rears? Or would it be better to just save up a bit, grab the better speakers now, and then get the specific surrounds (?C-CR1, C-CR2?) later when i upgrade to 5.1?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Hey Grant,

I live near Toronto. I got the C-1s from Bay Bloor Radio. You can check out their website at www.baybloorradio.com

I'm new to this stuff as well so I can't help you much with your question. But as you can see from my post, I'm also considering using the C-1s as part of a HT (along with other speakers from Energy)...that is if I replace them with Paradigms sometime down the road. There is no way I'm just going to have the C-1s gather dust. That would be a waste. Personally I see no reason why they can't be used as rears, however you might want to get confirmation on that from someone more experienced.

The C-1s produce very nice sound...the only problem I see is that with hard rock music, at low frequencies, the sound can be a bit boomy. I think adding a subwoofer will tighten up the bass. Either that or perhaps I need to buy stands. Softer music is really, really nice though.

Not sure what the AVR-175 is. If it's an actual receiver (as opposed to my system which is a small micro for a small room), the C-1s may be a little underpowered if you expect them to fill a rather large room. They are pretty small speakers, bookshelf speakers really. Do you by chance mean the AVR-1705?
 

New member
Username: Reggie_lives

Post Number: 4
Registered: Dec-04
Sorry, i meant the AVR-1705. They are going into a small room (17x14 ish). Do you think the AVR 1705 will be sufficient?

What about other receivers?

I'm considering the Yamaha HTR 5470, Yamaha HTR 5760 and the Panasonic SARX50. I'm considering those specific models solely because they are sold in a store where i don't have to pay taxes.

However, I'm practically sold on the Connoisseur series by Energy, so now i just have to figure out which receiver (Yamaha, Panasonic, Denon) will produce the best sound with the speakers.
 

KBear
Unregistered guest
Those questions are out of my league. I would imagine a full fledged receiver like that (as opposed to a microsystem) would be enough for a small room.

I can tell you that Yamaha and Denon are considered bright sounding receivers by many here and usually should be matched to a warm speaker. Not sure about Panasonic. IMO, and from reveiws, Energy Connoisseur speakers are neutral, leaning towards bright from what I have heard out of mine. I have to turn the treble to -1 or -2 on the Denon b/c the sound is too thin (though maybe this is Denon more than Energy).

But when I do that it sounds great...except as I said, at lower frequencies the sound can become a bit distorted. I hope to alleviate this shortly by using a subwoofer for the lower end if I can figure out how to do that...I'm still in the process of learning. Somehow I need to set the crossover and it can't be done on the Denon as it doesn't have that feature. I think I can bypass that by running the speaker connection through a subwoofer and set the crossover on the sub, but I'm still not 100% sure.

Anyhow, I would say that the C-1s or C-3s (which could be better in your case) are a fabulous choice, especially if you have a subwoofer taking care of the lower end...and you should be able to set the crossover frequency on the AVR-1705, but don't quote me on that. I've been told that crossover options are not on most microsystems...they are moreso a feature on HT receivers.

As I said, I'm also a newbie, so if my info isn't accurate hopefully someone will correct me.

Good luck!
 

New member
Username: Principiante

New York

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jan-05
Speakers for Microsystem:
I'm looking at the Teac Legacy microsystems. These have home theater capabilities and progressive scan DVDs. the higer end system is the V-L800 DVD player and AG-L800 surround receiver (50W/channel), the lower end is DR-L700 dvd receiver & AL-700 3 channel power amplifier (30W/channel). I can get the L700 system for US$400 discounted online; the L800 will run US$800 (doesn't seem like as good a deal as teh 700).

Specs are here http://www.hifi4less.com/TEAC_Legacy_700_5_1_Home_Cinema_System___Multiregion.ht m

The basic question is, can I get high end speakers for a 30W microsystem? I was looking gat the B&W 600 s3 (for the fronts; I mostly want to listen to music; I have a crappy Sony surround system and sub I will hook up for home theater). These run US$350, but are supposed to be very good. Will a 30W system work with them? I don't need huge volume, but if I turn it to max, I want to be able to hear it ... Are there better alternatives for the low power system? I read one post that said B&W are thirsty speakers ....

So --- recommendations on good speakers for a microsystem? Any comments on these Teac systems?

Thanks!
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