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Archive through November 15, 2004

 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


Rick - Tube based usually implies a fairly steep price range. I haven't heard a tube based disc player in the past ten years. Tubes have all but disappeared from the Dallas audio stores. The people that want them will either travel to Noo Yark to buy them or they find what they want on Ebay. Of course I think tubes do wonderful things for any audio signal but the alternatives are out there depending on the price you want to pay. For around $10,000 you can get the Mac transport and DAC.

I thought when Kegger first mentioned a great CD player and then suggested spending $1500 he was kind of off the mark. I see he realizes Great starts at about $5000, for the DAC. $1500 buys you the 1m digital cable to hook it up with.

I'm hoping my Philips will hold out until there are more decisions and evolution in players. The talk I'm hearing is a dedicated CD player may be a thing of the past in a few years. More effort is being placed on getting "great" CD performance from DVD players. And, of course, more formats are looming over the crest.
Depending on what transpires when the Philips finally needs replacing I'll probably look at a used Rega player. I've always enjoyed the sound of their disc players. Like their tables they are very no frills, here's the music sorts. And I feel they will back their product when it needs it, unlike the Sony's and, probably, Philips'. Those are two "good as it needs to be" qualities for me. Particularly when I'm talking disc players.
Though I whole heartedly agree the source is the place to build your system from, I have a hard time with high priced disc players. I think the original Meridian, many years ago, is the last high priced CD player I thought I really would like to own. And how many of them are still working today?








 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


For several years I ran a transport and an outboard DAC. Nothing expensive just something that didn't require junking everything when the laser sled went wonkers. After twelve years, the DAC is getting beaten out by the DAC's in the mid priced players I have heard lately. To me, digital means it will be obsolete sooner than I prefer. But, then again, my power amps are forty years old.



 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 615
Registered: Dec-03
Jan,

I agree with you regarding the Rega CD players. I am not in the market, but like you say, with digital, you never know when it's going to die. I would probably buy a used Planet off Audiogon. Do you really think in the near future a mid price DVD will give truly great CD sound? I wonder.

You made a remark not long ago that made me smile. You said that some of the best sounding CD's were AAD. I have know that for some time now. Anyone who ever listened to a Mapleshade recording would be hard pressed to argue the opposite.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 123
Registered: Oct-04
G-day mates! Rick, I don't "always" agree with Jan, but in the case of the AAD CDs - yes, indeed, they usually DO sound better. (there's that word "better" again!)
I wish I could say that I have heard Mapleshade records, but I have not. Taking your word here - I assume they are analog-recorded, not digital? Think I'd better access their site again.

John A. - yes, a delegation of "buying helpers" would be welcome, sir! Merri and I have a standing method of selecting anything electronic in stores. I go to the rack, and take out a box of, say, a receiver. Then I put down that box and Mer comes over and - while my back is turned - selects another box of the same thing. We take it home. It works.
Now, IF I take home the box I selected, I guarantee that someting wil bee rong wit itt. Happens every time. I think there must be some evil force hovering over my head!
Now - when I order things on the Internet, I don't seem to have as much trouble - guess it's because somebody far away picks out the thing I'm buying? Hmmm. . .

I think the Yamaha folks may be on to something with their newest line of players. They separate the SACD and DVD-A circuits - and allow you to turn off the digital side when you're playing SACDs (analog out). Seems to me that the less interference in the player, the better.
And - a question to all - do most of the CD//dvd players on the market use dual lasers? I know the DVD and CD pit/land sizes are different, but am not sure what effects having separate lasers would do - more accurate? The Yamaha has the dual laser system, BTW.

I read about the new Denon 2910s and the confusion or problems with them, also posted on this forum. Hope they settle out - as I've always heard that the Denon products were some of the best. But - brand new model - who knows?

Again - my offer holds for anybody Stateside who wants a tiny sample of the SST - if you're not laughing me out of the country by now! But hey, guyz-n-galz, I really and truly believe the snak, uh, stuff helps - and Mer agrees. Heck, at this rate I'll be buying someting to Teflon-coat my new Silver member status!

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 124
Registered: Oct-04
Well, I'll be danged!

Hey, Rick - you've been talking up the Mapleshade folks for some time, and though I've gone on their site before, your mention of the analog records set me back there again. Well. . .

As I recall you've been quite insistent on the sound "improvements" with such things as points and maple stands - but when I accessed the site, well, sir - I see that Mapleshade is ahead of Walker Audio with its "Silclear" product!
Sounds very much like the "SST" I got - but cheaper. The customer reviews are (as you would expect on a manufacturer's site) rather glowing. Very interesting, this "tweak." I'm surprised you're not using it - or are you, like me, very skeptical about things that "can't work?" Uh-huh.

I'll have to admit that the Mapleshade records, and the way they're made, sound like excellent sonic investments - maybe I'll try a couple.

Meanwhile, it seems that there are even more "tweaks" out there than I imagined. So far, for me anyway, the Vivid and SST work. Hmmm. . .

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 125
Registered: Oct-04
All: - Beware the new!
- - - - - - - - - - -

The DualDisc format, with DVD-Audio on one side and CD on the other, are slated to be in shops shortly with a total of 50 titles by the middle of November, continues to keep electronics manufacturers on guard. The situation stems from the DualDisc being slightly thicker than a CD or DVD and might get stuck inside some players. Pioneer Electronics has released the following:

Dear Customer:

Pioneer has become aware that some pre-recorded hybrid discs -- which are referred to as "DualDisc" -- have been released in the market to consumers by some music companies and record labels. These hybrid discs appear to be a bonded combination of DVD on one side of the disc and non-DVD (which may incorrectly be referred to as a CD side) on the other side. Pioneer understands that, although these discs may refer to a CD side, the "non-DVD" side is not compliant with the Compact Disc Digital Audio specification and does not bear the CD logo.

Pioneer recommends that consumers not use "DualDisc" products with any Pioneer products, including CD players, DVD players and recorders, and computer drives until Pioneer has an opportunity to test them. At this point in time, Pioneer does not know whether Pioneer products can safely handle these new hybrid discs, or whether these discs may damage your Pioneer products.

Sony has also sent out dealer notifications about the thicker discs, etc. Stay tuned. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1798
Registered: Dec-03
JAN:
When I was refering to the $1500 cd player I was talking
the arcam without the outboard dac.
Which performs on par playing a cd as the denon does playing sacd/dvd-a!

____________________________________

JOHN:
A tube dac does not consist of the whole dac being tube based!
The atcual dac's in the box are still solid state
just all power and output stages in a quality tube dac
are tubes!
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1799
Registered: Dec-03
For anyone interested here is an example of a tube dac.

http://www.quadesl.com/dac.shtml
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 616
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

I have been a fan of Mapleshade recordings for years. I have also used several of their products. I swear by their cone points for isolation/vibration control, and I use the Golden Helix speaker wire. I have never used any of the CD treatments or coatings from any maker so I can't comment on them. It's usually a long winter in the Northeast, so I will get around to trying the Pledge treatment first. I think this may be our last winter here. We are seriously considering a move to Florida next spring. We will see. Cheers!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 126
Registered: Oct-04
Rick: Well, sir, if you want to try the SST, just let me know - it appears to be the same stuff, essentially, as Mapleshade's "Silclear."
Didn't I read on this forum, while I was "gone" that Classical 1, or somebody else, had used the cones and heard no difference? Thought so, but not sure. Like the Vivid and the SST, I have great reservations about cones. But, since both Vivid and SST make a big difference for me, well, I shouldn't take a cynical approach to cones. Exactly what difference(s) do the cones make? Something you can hear, or feel?

And - please - let Merri and me know if there's any information we can supply re Florid-Duh! Or anyway we might be of some help to you. We're always ready to help - though we really only know about Naples, Ft. Myers and Sarasota. That's our "stomping ground," doncha know! Anything on the East Coast, nope, we don't go there - tooooo crowded!

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 127
Registered: Oct-04
Rick: a quick PS to vibration control. Under the CD player I use a "sandwich" of cork, silicone rubber (actually cut-out pieces from a Dr. Scholl's gel pad!), and cork. Sorta like an oreo? I got that idea from Stereophile magazine, and for me, well, it seems to work very well!
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 617
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

All electronic components create internal vibrations that muddy the sound. The brass cones(Mapleshade's choice of material) channels the vibrations out of the component, and it drains to the surface below. I notice a big difference in overall clarity and detail with the cones. I always kept an open mind regarding tweaks. If I hear an audible improvement fine, if not, oh well. I just have a problem with closed minded people who want to tell me I can't possible hear what I just heard.

Thank you and Merri for your kind offer for info. WE are looking at the Tampa area, so we will keep you in the loop as we progress. Cheers!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1053
Registered: Aug-04
"I read about the new Denon 2910s and the confusion or problems with them,"

It's confusion Larry, believe me :-)

And yes, a good universal player will provide the option of shutting down the digital circuits to enable interference free music playback. Isolated chambers and seperate internal sections for audio and video processing is also a benefit as is copper plating, shielding, double layer chassis, protein coated disc trays, low center of gravity motor placement, battleship construction - but still no dang coffee maker :-)

Tweaks:

I am wanting to try Jan's Pledge treatment also but have yet to find the appropriate product. Someone will have it but I'm not that keen to have to go on a shopping center expedition to find it. As for vibration reduction, I know someone who jams squash balls below and on top of components - says it works extremely well. For me it comes down to trying things but not at the cost where the visual impairment factor soars to high. It still irritates me to have our center speaker placed on a chrome stool behind or plasma panel. I'm currently looking for a suitable alternative before having to resort to a very heavy duty wall mount bracket. The things we do in the name of audio.

Wife and I enjoyed a drink or two last night while we listened to our very best recordings in DVD-A and SACD to see if we could declare a winner out of the two in surround/resolution quality. The DVD-A was Donald Fagan's Kamakiriad and the SACD was Steely Dan's Gaucho. The result:

It was a tie - both truly sublime examples.

Rick,

And to think all these years I was blaming the PC and Audio gear for my visual and auric impairment. Those darn huge caj - er - cones :-)

John A

For when you return: I see you just had to leave us with one more acidic drop from your anti-sacd obsession before you left for a break. God, I wish you'd get a grip.





 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 128
Registered: Oct-04
Rick: I think I see the logic here, but for the life of me I wonder how hard, heavy brass cones can filter vibrations out of a unit and onto the, what, shelf?
But then, sir, I had a devil of a time trying to figger out how a bottle of "car polish" could make CDs sound so much better that my dear wife allowed as how I'd found the Grail! Hmmm. . .
And I hope by my statements that you don't put me in the nay-sayer crowd. As you have read, my friend, I'm out there doing tweaks and trying my best to find - what? - MUSIC. Dat's it. Everything else comes second, so if I buy some crazy stuff and it works and makes better-sounding MUSIC - aha! If you want to challenge me, fine, but Mer and I will still sit back and enjoy our Scotch and our MUSIC - and say that we've come a step or three in the right direction.
Brass cones? (gulp) afraid the price keeps me away from those - at least for now.

My Rantz - well, let's see - good that you and Ms. Rantz enjoy a drink or three, and go "into" the music. Fine there - just so much better than TV! Yep. . .
As to Pledge, Vivid, Alien Joy Juice, etc. - I've finally determined that all you need is a product that cleans off the mold release compound and somehow "clarifies" the plastic layer over the aluminum pit-plate, so that the laser will accurately read start-and-stop points on those little pits!
Pledge may do it - Auric Illuminator may do it - Vivid may do it - and my latest bit of insanity, "Zaino plastic polish and optic enhancer" may do it! Whoa! Yep - been researching, and found a car-polish company that has a product designed to make "optically perfect" ALL plastic - including, we hope, CDs.
Am ordering it - and here Stateside a $12 bottle should do about 3,000 CDs. Hmmm. . . Sounds a little better than $45 Vivid, eh?
Of course, Jan's small-change Pledge may, indeed, do JUST AS WELL - though I've yet to test it. But I shall. . .
Mer and I sat down for "Sundowners" tonight, and, as always, got into some good talk about music, and what I'm doing with the stereo to try to upgrade, etc.
She said that she's so happy that what I've done so far has worked - and that the music sounds better. She's pleased, and I feel good for having tried, and tried again, to please both of us. I value and respect my wife, and that means that I do try to make life a tad better for her, given my limited funds and total lack of talent!!!
Still trying, my friend, and still having fun doing it. And still liking VERY MUCH all the input I get from this forum. Thank you!

BTW - yipeeeee! Amazon (God doubly-bless 'em) shipped the Mahler 2nd today - and I should get it on Monday. Sigh. this is all very exciting to me - and I'll give you running reviews of all that happens - next week.
Of course, we also have house-guests all week, so that may throw a bit of a blop into my plans. Anyway - hoping for the best.
Oh, BTW, I've tried a couple of center speakers. Gave up - they didn't really help very much, as the Onkyo has a special setting that takes from each side and ccreates a "Ghost" center speaker. Pretty cool!!!!

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 129
Registered: Oct-04
PS - Rick: If you are looking in the Tampa area, think "Dunedin" - a neat-oh little town on the Gulf that's clean, pretty crime-free (Tampa and St. Pete are hi-crime) and close to a lot of cultural attractions. Think "kilts" here - it is a Scotch-place, and clean as a whistle.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest



http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/dvd-benchmark-part-6-dvd-audio-11-2001 .html




 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest



Have we had this one yet? I simply can't remember.


http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/cd-sand.htm?



 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 131
Registered: Oct-04
JV - as to Jon Risch - I happened on a forum on "Audioholics" in which the resident closed-minded idiots carved up Risch and spit him out. He was trying to side with a woman who was posting regarding Vivid - and the Audioholics folk tore her up, too.
risch is apparently a bit of a maverick - a proponent of "hi-end" cables, and thus the center of a lot of controversy. But I e-mailed him about jitter, and he was very gracious in his reply - saying that there is more jitter (in his opinion) than the manufacturers or test mopes are admitting to. Hmmm. . .don't ask me, I only write here! (grin)
After all of my research, I'm inclined to agree with Risch re the jitter, but not the necessity for $1,000 cables! (can't afford them, anyway)

Jan - any comments on my "tweak" for hopefully stopping vibrations under the CD player? I posted above to Rick about my "oreo" fix. Would seem to me that putting brass under the CD player would increase, rather than decrease, the vibrations? But I'm reading more about the cones, and thus remain open-minded.

amazon shipped the SanFran Mahler 2nd today - so am already salivating! It should arrive about the same time as the Yamaha - could be a most interesting week ahead!

More anon. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1800
Registered: Dec-03
I'm thinking of getting one of these! $351 shipped to the us.

With the extra set of rca's as a second out.

http://www.octave-electronics.com/Star/dae2.shtml

I've contacted them and may try it as a passive switcher of sorts.
Plugging the output of my front speakers from the b&k into 1 input
then putting my tube preamp in another with 1 output going to my amps.

That will leave me 1 input and 1 output but give me 2 channel
with the tube preamp and surround from the b&k without having to
switch any cables or devices.
Plus the added gain may be benificial since i'm running 3 amps
from the single outputs!
not to mention what the unit is suppose to do to startwith.

So if this unit is all it's cracked up to be I think I'll be one step closer!
Plus it will solve all my conection conundrems.

If not well I tried it for $350.

Anyone have any oppinions?
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1801
Registered: Dec-03
JAN: THE FIRST ARTICLE IS PRETTY COOL.

Rather old though, on the bottom says 2001 and no bass management
where now we have it. but besides that very informative!

Thought these quotes were pretty relative to us!

"Some of my audiophile friends consider me to be a bit of a heathen, because I like immersive style surround mixes where I'm placed in the middle of the band. This comes from my youth when I spent many an hour in the middle of the band!"

"As alluded to earlier, I'm a bit unusual in the audiophile community with respect to my enjoyment of surround music. I wonder how many audiophiles realize that for the vast majority of recordings the soundstage and imaging that they so love to talk about is all in the hands of the mixing engineer? There are certainly exceptions, but for the most part this is controlled by a pot on the mixing console.

Between this and my background as a musician, I'm not averse to sounds coming at me from all directions. Last time I checked, this happens in the real world too!"
_________________________________________________
The second one addresses some of what the mod to the pioneer involves.

 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


"The DAE-2, as with the original, works on the basis that the analogue output stage of many digital sources is unable to source enough current to drive a signal across high-capacitance connecting cables into the low impedance inputs of amps before distorting."


Do you have high capacitance cables? Most cables are not.




"This impedance conversion device maintains"




Sounds like a buffer cicuit. That's a lot of money for a simple buffer. There must be more to it. What do you know about it, and where did you find it?


"Positive side effects include the removal of high frequency harshness from the signal source (via the roll-off effect of the DAE-2's valve input capacitors)"


????????? Roll-off??? Input vavle capacitors???








 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1802
Registered: Dec-03
YES IT IS A TUBE BUFFER!

The following are suppose to be very simular and from what I've
read seems like something I'd like to try.
If it works I have some plans for building them
but I figure for the price I'd rather try one first then spend my time making one.

Octave Electronics DAE-1 and DAE-2
Musical Fidelity X10-D
Soundstage Vacuum One buffer processor
Z-man ASE Audio Signal Enhancer


From there descriptions of what they are suppose to do seems interesting!

And from what I've been able to find the cheepest one is $200.
And they only have 1 input and 1 output with no
input selector or gain control.
This one is $250 but it comes from malasie so $100 shipping.
I figure if anyone of the ones I've seen have the extra features of this one
that would add the extra it costs to get this one shipped.
I really need the extra inputs and gain, the extra output would just
be a bonus.

my cables come from cd player to preamp then from preamp to the
3way box I made to 3 seperate amps. so there very well may be
some capacitance issues and definatly some signal loss.
There is a lot of cabling on just 2 channels.

And I want some type of unit that can be used as a switch box
for multiple preamp's

The added features that one of these seems to do sounds like a good thing.
Basically trying to aid in the dampening of the harshnesss of digital
by running it through a tube stage.

From what I have now answered does it sound like
something I may benefit from?
Givin my particular setup!
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1804
Registered: Dec-03
Upload
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 618
Registered: Dec-03
Kegger,

Is that the family crest? (LOL!)
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2439
Registered: Dec-03
Monty Python & the Holy Grail in Lego (2001)

One: A Space Odyssey "The Ultimate Tripe".

BTW Another movie to avoid at all costs; "Troy".
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


Let's see here, it's 4:53 AM and I'm awake. Not wide awake, but awake. This should be a good time to answer some questions. And if you find out what I tell you is wrong, well, you should know better than to trust anyone who is typing answers to hifi questions at 4:54 AM.

Kegger - I'm not sure, but it sounds as if you're thinking of putting this unit after the pre amp. Is that correct? And you're trying to keep signal loss to a minimum by placing it there? And the second objective is to add the switching this unit offers to enable switching between the various amps you want to use at diiferent times. Correct? And the third objective is to tame the high end on the disc player.
The issue of signal loss is mostly dealt with by looking at the input impedance of your power amps against the output impedance of the pre amp. If you are running in the range of 600 Ohms output impedance from the pre amp, you can drive most any cable made to lengths of 100'+ and still have plenty of voltage and the ability to source plenty of current. When you get to the tube amps, they will typically have a slightly higher capacitance than a ss amp; but, the input impedance is also higher and that should ameliorate (try typing that at 5:12 AM!!!) the difference the capacitance makes. The sensitivity of the power amps' inputs is also a factor and often a tube amp, particularly the Dyna's, will have a lower input sensitvity which means less signal loss as a whole. Check the output voltage on the pre amp and if it will output 2V or more you shouldn't be looking at any real amount of signal loss. At least I wouldn't think so. You can find out by running the amps one at a time with a straight wire connection and using your SPL meter to check for level. Reconfigure your system for the three way hook up and check numbers. This isn't the correct way to do this, you should put the outputs through an oscilloscope or, at least a VOM; but, this will give you some idea of where you are at with signal loss.
The capacitance issue is going to be determined mainly by the type of interconnects and the internal wiring of the three way box you constructed. You can find the capacitance per foot of your interconnects by calling the cable maker. How much is too much is relative to what they are running between. The cable folks should be able to guide you with that determination. In general, cables are not very high in capacitance nowdays (unless you get into some very high end designs that go for certain characteristics) because they don't need to be. The problem with high capacitance cables is they will, like a cap in a X-over, roll off frequency response. So they tend to sound dull and act as tone controls. That may not boost sales. The other problem with high capacitance cables is they can send amplifiers into oscillation. That means smoke and that nasty burning electronic component smell that no one likes. That definitely doesn't boost sales. So I doubt that high capacitance is that much of a problem in your cables. The hook up wire you used in the switch box shouldn't add that much if you didn't use some exotic wire.
I would think the unit you are looking at is meant to go between the source and the pre amp and is configured for the typically higher output impedance of a CD player. If so, putting it between the pre amp and power amps may not do what you expect. I'm not catching on to why there is a gain control on this unit. If you read what I read in this literature, they used the unit as a pre amp and then as a buffer.

"first, one as a direct link from source to amp; then, in comparison, the same link was sent to the DAE-2's inputs, and the signal was output, via the second pair of Blue Heaven, into the amp."

That's not very clear to me what was done. The writer seems to be using "the amp" to mean the power amp itself and then to mean the integrated pre amp/power amp. Using the unit as a pre amp would make sense to have a gain control. But I see the potential to overdrive the inputs of a pre amp or power amp. This would be my assumption of why the description reads, "push the knob to max, and you'll hear a more upfront delivery". I'm really unclear on this.
As a switch box it wouldn't seem to be configured the way I would think you need your system hooked up.

" ... the upgraded version comes with three sets of inputs and a set outputs. There's also a spare set of RCA terminals that you can ask Octave to configure as an extra input or output."

So the bottom line on this one is, it depends on whether you want to try it for $350. It is putting another gain stage, buffer, pot, connectors and switch in the signal path. Not to mention the tubes. There is bound to be some sound quality that changes from the addition of all those items. The article keeps talking about "smoothening". That, to me, is code for "it rolls the highs". And "cleaning up of RF noise above 100kHz". That's good - if your system responds to 100kHz. Not your speakers or power amps but your CD outputs and pre amp inputs. Normally there are filters of some sort in both devices that remove signals above a certain point so the unit won't go into oscillation. Again, I just don't know what they are referring to. But they're smart enough to design and build this unit. I'm just smart enough to be awake at 6:07 AM.
I have an old X-10D. The results of using it were mixed across the board. Some people really liked what it did and some didn't. Mine's been back in the closet for years.
If they have a trial period, and you can return it if it doesn't do what you expect, I would say give it a try. That realy is the best I can tell you, Kegger.



Larry - :

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/sblocks1e.html

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/vibrapodse.html

Tweaks, tweaks, tweaks!!!!! OOOOOOHHHH, my head can start to hurt from tweaks. Not because I don't believe in them; but, because they are often so system dependent. And listener dependent. And vibration control/isolation is right up there with cables as to what will work for you.

What you need to use can often be determined by what you are trying to accomplish. Right tool for the job sort of thing. In the case of vibration control you can be trying to accomplish two different things at the same time. You may want to isolate the device from external vibration from the speakers while at the same time you are wanting to drain vibration generated in the device away from the device itself. How you do those two things is often by using two different methods at the same time.

Your CD player has moving parts inside and not the ones you are probably thinking of right now. The power transformer and the various components that form the electrical system of your player are all vibrating like little bumble bee wings in a hive whenever you turn the player on to listen to music.
What you have been doing with Vivid is reducing the jitter of the signal. That is what you are trying to do with the vibration control devices. As these components vibrate they induce some amount of error readings in the system. Error readings will eventually become "Jitter". They may be small most of the time but they are there. Are they swamped by other problems in any given player is part of the problem with tweaks.
Like the Vibrapods, your gel insoles work to isolate the player from external vibration. That is often the largest source of problematic vibration in a working system. What that type of vibration control doesn't do well is drain away the vibrations that are occurring within the player created by the electronics themself. If anything, soft, squishy things can make the problem worse if they happen to fall at the resonant frequency of the system that is vibrating.
For that you need cones, or something like the foot scrubbers, that can drain the energy away from the player. Cones do drain the energy down from the player into the support structure; and, they act as a one way mechanical diode to allow energy transfer down to the shelf but not up from the shelf. They rely on the fact that only a small portion of the cone (or a ball bearing) is touching the supporting surface. Items like the foot scrubbers are trying to arrest the energy before it can pass in either direction. The same is true of the sand filled boxes that are used as support systems. But neither systen drains the energy the way cones do; instead, they try to suppress it like it was a Black voter in Dade County.
Which one will work best for a given situation is for you to decide. I generally suggest having several types of accessories on hand and giving them a try. The expense of buying something that doesn't work on your system can be eased by trying the various DIY items on the web and in your own conjurings. Most of the accessories that are found in consumer audio come from the world of existing products that are meant for some other purpose. Somebody looked at it and thought it might do what they needed and they tried it out. If it worked and they were ambitious (and could find venture capital) they went to a manufacturer and asked for something that better suited their needs and then put it on the market. But they paid for packaging, distribution and maybe some advertising if not a new Corvette and a trip to the Veneto.
If you try a ball bearing instead of a cone, a tennis ball instead of a Vibrapod or a lamp base on a board instead of a "Little Rock" you can get an idea what might work best for your system. Then you have to decide whether you want to spend some money for an accessory that someone else has tried to tweak beyond your tweak.
One way to determine the worth of most tweaks is to listen to the system for two weeks with the tweak in place (assuming you think it helps); and, then remove the tweak and find out what you hear without the "benefits" of your mind wanting to hear what you just purchased. Too often a tweak will just be different and not better.


Rick - I don't think a mid priced DVD will ever give "great" CD sound. But neither will a mid priced CD player. For the most part I do beleive you will get what you pay for in high end audio. The more you spend (wisely) the better the sound will be. But, as with anything where you are trying to reach for the last little bit that makes it great, the last little bit that makes it great is way more expensive than the bit that makes it really good.
So with the idea that we're not talking $5-10,000 transports and the same for the DAC's, I would say the industry is trying to phase out the deicated CD player. If for no other reason than to represent the DVD player as the new alternative that you must buy. That difference even if there isn't thing.
The efforts to improve CD players is mostly coming from the DVD/information storage devices now. CD has been outdated (in the sense of digital tecnology) since it was introduced and the industry is looking for the next item that can replace what is currently on the market. Since DVD can play CD it would appear the move is to take people away from a dedicated CD player when they need replacement. It will fold into the next concept of formats and convince you the audio market is one of change that means you have to move forward, not stand in one place. As the CD performance of DVD gets better the next wave of formats will move DVD out of the way and so on.
So, yes, I would think in a few years dedicated CD players will disappear from the big box stores just as stereo receivers have today. Will the new format ever be "great"? I'm probably not the person to ask. My amplifiers are forty years old and they still work; my 3/5a's are thirty years old; my turntable and the 6200 are twenty years old; my pre amp and Spicas are fifteen years old; and, still, I can't figure out why I should have to replace my digital source every five years.


It's now 7:16 AM. I'm still awake but have run out of answers. If I've missed anybodie's question, ...


...as they say - anon.








 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 132
Registered: Oct-04
Jan V. (yawn) G-day, sir! Went through your links (not the sausage variety) and read your posting three times. Verrrrry interesting.
So - my soft-and-squishy feet may not be doing me any favors? I overlooked the internal vibrations, and sought to isolate the player from other vibrations. Hmmm. . .
Now I think maybe I have to do some more research on these "cone" things. The first thing that turns me off about them is, of course, the price. Gulp. But I have a machinist-friend who could easily take a chunk of 2-inch brass rod and turn it down into a point on one end, flat on the other. Probably do it for about $20. I may have a chat with him. . .
I know Rick is a big-time cone-believer, and you seem to follow suit, Jan. OK - with that as a recommendation, I'm at least doing the serious-thinking bit.
It would, indeed, be wonderful to think that I could keep and use well the stereo gear I'm now in the process of buying - or have recently bought. But I know the CD player will crap out within a few years - and of course, there's no such thing as "repair" these days! The Polk speakers will eventually be replaced by the B & W 705s I really, really want - but can't afford now. And the Onkyo amp will surely give way to something "better" - but don't know how soon.
For years I had a marvelous Carver pre-amp and amplifier - gave me such clear sound that I thought I'd never give it up. But, when we did our insane sailing thang, I gave it up. Miss it. If I ever get a lot of money I'm sure I'll get one of the Sunfire receivers - I like the Carver "sound" that much. Ghia has her Mac-love, I have the soft spot in heart for Carver, warts and all.
OK - Mer's away teaching, so I'm going to try to finish "Vividing" the CD collection today. Then get ready for Tuesday and the new Yamaha. I sure hope it sounds as good as I "think" it will!!
Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figger out why this damned SST makes the difference that Mer is insistent about . . . she obviously hears even more changes than I do. Silver on yer plugs, sir? Well, why not, my good man - after you massage my cones - gently, please!!!!!

More (ahem) anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 619
Registered: Dec-03
Jan,

Thank you for your insight. My CAL CD is now about 10 years old, and still going strong, but who knows when it will die? I quess my qustion is, if you had to replace your CD player right now, which way would you go, and with what?

Larry,

If you could find a machinist to do some cones for you, that would be great. Just keep in mind, the mass of the cones plays an important role. The cones I use (sets of 3 per component) weigh a pound each. These cones are massive.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 133
Registered: Oct-04
Rick, et al - A POUND, UH, EACH? as in "Holy Cow, Masked Man!" Well, sir, they ought to do something, then! Whew!
I've been Online researching - and it would appear that "mass" is a critical element in these isolation devices. Walker charges WAY too much for his - $300 plus. The Mapleshades look nicer, and probably ARE nicer. But there are some other, similar products out there, also. I found one that's not as nice-looking, but appears to be about the same - Dayton, for $16.90 for a set of four - on Amazon and elsewhere.
OK - will do more research - and yet I'd still like some more info from you, Rick, as to exactly what the cones did/do for your sound? I'm trying to learn with what I hope is an open mind, sir.

More anon. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1805
Registered: Dec-03
Jan when you posted at 2:30am I was going to ask why are you still
awake but geez 4:30!

And I appreciate the time you take explaining your thoughts on this!

Well maybe I should start with exactly what I'm looking for.

I want a unit that is basicly passive "some small amount of gain would be nice"

I want at least 3 inputs "selective" and two outs "not selective"

I want it to be tube based and a filtering of sorts to tame brightness/
harshness and maybe add a little "tube sound"
so I again can change tubes to "set my mood so to speak"

OK I don't believe I have either a high capacitance issue or
a large amount of signal loss!

I do believe I have some of each "a little", for one I have to turn the tube
preamp up a little further since I have split the output into 3 and
I am running 12' of cable from the output of the preamp to each amp
not to mention the 2 extra pairs that go to the other amps.
And my system is a little on the bright side so taming of this would
be a good thing in my system "as long as it doesn't go to far"
Hopefully I can control that to some degree with different tubes.

That is why I thought I may benefit from one of these units.

If my system was not bright and I had no need for multiple preamp
inputs, I would not be looking for anything like this.

I have emailed the company to ask if this unit can go in between
the preamp and amp and have been answerd by
"Yes we have people doing that very thing"
And I have asked people online who have the :
Musical Fidelity X10-D and Z-man ASE Audio Signal Enhancer
if they have used their's in this configuration. some have responded with yes
and it seems to work just fine.

Have you tried yours in this configuration?
_____________________________________________________
Remember in the past I ran my preamp outs from my reciever into
my tube preamp and also put a cd player in the other input to my tube preamp.

That way I ran my reciever through the tube preamp but had to
adjust volume on the preamp to get the right signal level and I
could flip the switch on the preamp and have 2channel.

I figure this is a better way to do it. IF IT WORKS THAT IS.

Ok I think I have explained all, any more thoughts?

Maybe I should of put my requirements and what I wanted to address
In my first post aye! Thanks for the input.

 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1806
Registered: Dec-03
If all fails and it doesn't work in this configuration
at least I could and probably would use it the way it's mainly intended.

Since most of the reviews I've read on these things say they
work wonders on average cd players.

So I don't believe it would be waisted. HOPEFULLY!
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


Before I go any further, let me ask this; if you feel your system is on the bright side on all inputs why don't you just put a resistor on the tweeters to pad them down about 1 dB? Is there somewhere else your trying to get to with the sound that a simple fix such as that won't accomplish? You're using a Klipsch tweeter across the front, aren't you?



 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


I never placed the X-10D after my pre amp. It has a buffer stage that keeps the impedance at 600 Ohms. I didn't want to mess with that. And the Audible Illusions does not lack for tube sound. I bought the Musical Fidleity piece because of a review it received. I thought I should know what it did and, like you, I thought I would find a use for it.
As I said, the reaction to the X-10D was mixed. Apparently, if I'm to believe the advertisement, Musical Fidelity feels there is a market for a revised version of the X-10D as they have a new unit in their ads. More money, but, of course, improved sound. Maybe it was because my system was obviously a tube based system in its sound that I never got that interested in the X-10D. I tried it on the output of my Pioneer Elite LaserDisc player but it did nothing for me there either. If you want to try my unit before you spend your money on something new, I'll send it to you. No obligations. I'll have to check to make sure it's working. I actually had it out when I got the Dynacos out and I remember it seemed OK then.


 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 620
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

With the cones in place I heard a clarity and a higher resolution of detail over the entire audio range. It was like pulling a veil off the speakers. They seemed to just become more "alive". I have been using the cones for a long time now, and I recently have been experimenting with different speaker stands and placement. I had one cone left over from my speaker stand project, and put it on top of my CD player (upside down) and low and behold, clearer still! I am a believer.............

Cheers!
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1807
Registered: Dec-03
because I want a switchbox for my preamps.
And feel something tube based will do both.
And I can adjust the amount with different tubes.
Plus I want some more "tube sound"
And maybe another tube stage will lesson the digital sound even more.

But mainly I want a tube based switchbox!
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1808
Registered: Dec-03
Appreciate the offer Jan but I really want/need a switchbox.

If this thing doesn't do exactly like I hoped I was wondering if I could
modify it to be just a switchbox.

What do you think? I think I probably could.

I really appreciate the offer but I want something with multiple inputs.
A friend of mine has a z-man that I will try shortly.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 134
Registered: Oct-04
Rick - well, sir, it appears that you've given the cones a fair test, and have found them to improve the sound to such an extent that you are a staunch proponent of their use.
OK - you and Jan are the only ones I can "squeeze" for some answers, so I think that you've given me enough to keep me going with research, and maybe even to buy some.
Thanks, Rick, and I'll let you know what I decide to do.

More anon . . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1809
Registered: Dec-03
RICK: you liked the family crest aye!

JOHN: both of your links are right up my alley!
The holy grail is one of my favorite movies and now I have to
see the lego thing! I downloaded the other flick and watched it "short but funny"
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1810
Registered: Dec-03
Also what I'm trying to do is, my preamp does not have much "tube sound"
And neither does my b&k obviously so I thought I'd try adding a litle.

And if the unit tamed the brightness and gave multiple inputs for
preamps at the same time, would make it very usefull for me, as it
would accomplish 3 things in my system without having to mod any speakers.

That was my thinking!

From what I've read it seems like a unit like this could do all that. no?

like I said I wouldn't be looking to spend money on something like this
unless I thought it could address multiple issues.

Am I wrong?
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1811
Registered: Dec-03
And you know I have to experiment to see what these things are all about. lol
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 621
Registered: Dec-03
Kegger,

Yes sir, I did.

Perhaps you've seen mine...............The skull and crossbones, (LOL!)
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1055
Registered: Aug-04
Larry,

About the cones: be sure to note that Rick stated he uses three per component. This is important. If you were to use four you would most likely create some imbalance even though you may not notice. Unless the surface where the unit is placed is perfectly flat (down to the millionth of whatwever) there would be a discrepency at one cone and the one placed at its diagonal opposite. Three creates perfect stability.

I noted this (after being advised) with my speaker stands on our slate floor. I removed the rear two corner spikes and replaced them with one in the rear center - forming a tripod. Even though the floor spikes are adjustable and unless there is a way to measure the exact pressure on each of them, three spikes offers perfect settling without vibration, although - in relation to speaker stand heights - this may increase the tipping over factor. With three spikes the stand can be way off level (not that you want them this way) yet still relatively stable.

Just thought the value of three vs four cones/spikes should be noted.

Cheers

 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 624
Registered: Dec-03
Very good point my dear Rantz. (no pun intended)
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1056
Registered: Aug-04
You're sharp as usual Rick my friend (ditto on the pun). LOL!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1057
Registered: Aug-04
Rick,

It's just past 7.30 am here. The temperature is already nudging the eighties (in your lingo), another typically cloudless sky, the birds are in fine voice and will no doubt soon wake sleeping beauty at such point I'll fire up the barby and thrown on the bacon and eggs and after this glorius outdoor breakfast I think the surf will beckon us.

Ah, just another day in paradise.


Wot's it like in NY Rick?



 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 625
Registered: Dec-03
Rantz,

Woke up this morning to 2" of snow on the ground. The temp was a balmy 37 degrees. It's a little too early for this nonsense. This is why we are going to move to Florida. I'm just too old and worn out to deal with snow. I'll take sun and surf anytime. Have a wonderful day my friend.

Cheers!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1058
Registered: Aug-04
Cheers Rick - likewise!

I just wanted to make your day :-)

 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 320
Registered: Mar-04
Rick,
Upstate temperature reading was 14 degrees overnight here. I agree, much too early for this. What I need is a winter home...say in Paradise, AUS. :-)
BTW, the Croton-Harmon Station worked out great! Thanks for the tip.

Jan, others,
I took my skipping DSOTM sacd over to Audio Classics this afternoon but, unfortunately, they were already closed for the day. So I zipped over to Circuit City and tried it on a Sony sacd player and...no skip. Must be something with my player. I'll talk to the nice folks over at Audio Classics next week, see what they say.
Circuit City really leaves me shaking my head though. They had both the Pioneer 563A and the 578 setup, one connected a HK and the other to a Onkyo. In both cases they were connected with only a digital coax. Hmmm.


 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 135
Registered: Oct-04
To all: (yawn, stretch, scratch) Well, Mer and I have been enjoying our Sundowners now for about an hour - and are pretty mellow. So nothing anyone can say will upset us, unless somebody mentions the word "Bush." Hmmm. . . Nope.
Three cones vs. four - well, of course, my friends! I wouldn't THINK of putting an even number of anything around anything else. Mer forbids me to do the "four" thang on anything except sofas and chairs, where, if we leave one off, we tend to fall down a lot.
Yep - the three-cone tango it shall ever be. Now I know, at this point, that Rick may think I'm poking fun at him. Note: I AM NOT.
Heck, If I can use and appreciate "Vivid" and "SST," well, what's a few cones to make any diff-runce?
I actually ordered some today - won't say from whom, but I ordered some. When they get here, and I use them, I will tell all about whatever happens. Mer, BTW, gave her approval - but then, she used to tune pianos, and knows a lot about harmonics and sound quality and the like. Is there anything this gal DOESN'T know about? Sigh.
Counting down to Yamaha-delivery, and from what I read, the unit had better live up to its glowing reviews! (grin)
Sem - Circuit City is sorta like a circus - you go there to be entertained, not to actually learn anything. Every time I've been there, I've walked away after teaching the "informed" floor mopes something about what they're SUPPOSED to know.
But then again, our "super" snobby-shItty hi-end stereo store in town, "House of HiFi", has a bunch of people selling multi-thousand-dollar setups - who can't answer even elementary questions about what they're selling!!!! Ugh!
And your CC actually HAD a 563? Amazing!

OH, yes, Rantz, sir: regarding the 3-vs-4 points? Way back in time, the milking stools that my uncle and I used - all had THREE legs. With barn floors as uneven as they were, four didn't work, at all! Same with our beloved stereo stuff - three is NOT a crowd - it's a necessity! Yep.

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 136
Registered: Oct-04
Addendum, please: Mer insisted that I add: the "rule of three" applies in many cases, such as pianos, where each note gets three strings, for sonic "purity." She says that the rule of three goes far beyond what most people understand, and that it is evident in music, art and physics. But then, (sigh) she's one of those "Mensa" folk - and far above anyting I can unnerstaynd. Hope you got all this???

 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1059
Registered: Aug-04
Larry,

You know my feelings on using words such as "genius" and "hero" loosely. Well, if your Mer is one of those "Mensa" folk, then the word "genius" could well apply. But one thing I know, IQ's not withstanding, is that the wives most certainly deserve the "hero" status for contending with the likes of "us".

"Way back in time, the milking stools that my uncle and I used - all had THREE legs."

Yes, but that was to prevent the milker being confused with the cow :-)


 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1060
Registered: Aug-04
Sem,

Wierd goings on with your DVD player - hope you get it sorted.

Oh, and you can have your 14 degrees my friend. Of course we get 14 degrees and below in winter, but that's on the celcius scale!

Kegger,

Now you'll only need a keg in your basement to live up to your 'well rounded' audio rep. Cheers!


 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1812
Registered: Dec-03
ALLREADY HAVE 1 SIR!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1061
Registered: Aug-04
Ah - you're more Aussie than I am then, my friend!












 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 321
Registered: Mar-04

quote:

Now you'll only need a keg in your basement to live up to your 'well rounded' audio rep. Cheers!




quote:

ALLREADY HAVE 1 SIR!



Kegger,
Can I move in with you?? :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1813
Registered: Dec-03
LOL SEM.

THIS IS A PIC ON THE DISCOVERIES THREAD.
If you look close on the left hand side just to the right of the speaker
on the right you can see my little buddy.

https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/music/92596.jpg
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 137
Registered: Oct-04
Sir Rantz: Hmmm. . .don't have a barbie, but do have the nice bougainvillea weather - sigh. Mer and I nearly froze the other night - got down to 59 degrees, and the blankets got piled on.
Can't imagine what Sem and Rick are going through. Awful! Simply AWFUL!

The very thought of somebody confusing a milking stool for a cow - udder nonsense!!!

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 138
Registered: Oct-04
Kegger: There are so MANY things right of the speaker, uh, uh, uh. . .
Oh, if you mean "beer," sir - well! I take that as a call for a black-n-tan: Stout and Watney's haff-n-haff. (tear shed here) The beachside restaurant where I ussed-tah get dose got blown away by hurricane Charley. Maybe next year. . .

More then. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 322
Registered: Mar-04

quote:

If you look close on the left hand side just to the right of the speaker
on the right you can see my little buddy.



Kegger, on second thought, maybe I'll just stay here. My beer is far easier to find!! :-)



 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1814
Registered: Dec-03
SEM SO IS MINE, NO NEED TO BEG!

It's in the keg.
It's in the fridge.
It's in the cases, no need to find a bridge!

NEVER TO FAR TO FIND, AND ALLWAYS HAVE A SPARE!

Theres a couple in my room, if you dare.
Theres some inside the couch.
And theres one behind "EVERY" speaker, in a pouch!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 140
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - sigh - well, sir, I'm flummoxed. Been trying to copy down some music onto the CD-R discs, and have made six copies now. BUT
Whenever I play them in my machine - I cannot tell the difference between treated and untreated discs. Will try again in the Yamaha when it gets here, however. . .
On the issue of sending you some copies - well, I don't feel it would do any good under the present circumstances. IF I'm able to make some copies that show up the differences, I'll send them along.

To Jan, et al - any comments on why I'm having this problem? All comments welcome.

To all: - well, my machinist-friend will be making me some "isolation cones." He had some "junk" 1 1/2" brass rod leftover from a project for the local utility company. So I gave him the dimensions and a sketch of a "typical" cone.
by mid-week he will have turned three of them, 1 1/2 inches wide and about 1 1/4 inches long. I told him about the project, and he really didn't understand what I was talking about - but says he's game to do the job.
I told him I'm not really excited about some big, shiny brass "thangs" sticking out - and he asked if he could anodize them. Turn them basically black. Sure, I said, so he will do that. Cost to me - $9 for the three cones. I think that's reasonable, don't y'all??

Rick: we'll see how these cones do - I'll be testing them whenever the Yamaha gets here, and will post any and all comments. I'd really like to think they'll help, but I'm also ready for defeat if Mer doesn't hear any sound improvement.

 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 324
Registered: Mar-04
Kegger,
Excellent!!
Well thank you Theodore Geisel!! Apparently, the beer is never very far. In fact its always where you are!! :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1815
Registered: Dec-03
Dam that took long enough!

I'm pretty proud of that little poem.
thank you sem.

LARRY: your the writing guy and nothing from you?
no critique?
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


I'm sure someone out there, perhaps Ms.R, can give the origin of the "rule of three". I seem to remember it coming out of the Hebrew mythology. But Yahoo indicates it may come from Wiccan tradition:


http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=rule%20of%20three




Could that partially explain the sound quality associated with Triode operation?


Lee DeForest - a Wiccan?

http://www.pbs.org/transistor/album1/addlbios/deforest.html

Lee De Forest - Wikipedia ???





The Rule of Three

Ever mind the Rule of Three
Three times what thou givest returns to thee.
This lesson well, thou must learn,
Thee only gets what thou dost earn.


 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2444
Registered: Dec-03
Glad you liked the movie links, Kegger. "Holy Grail" is so good.

I am not a great movie theater buff. Watched Chasing Liberty (2004) last night, and loved it. Miles better than Troy. For me. Gorgeous female lead. If she had been cast as Helen, even a supercomputer could not have done enough ships.

Larry,

Don't be concerned about the discs. I said I would burn some, too, and have just not got around to it. One thing I disagree with in your recent posts is about things being repairable. They are. I've told some recent tales here of KEF tweeters and NAD receiver AC-3/DTS boards; fixed 'em myself for almost nothing, with good advice from the makers, and spare parts. In the case of KEF, the latter were supplied in June 2004 from stock, and the speaker is a 1982 model.

Just to get really acrimonious, do not make your Black and Tan with Watneys. Remember the couple in the canoe...

Also, I never recall seeing the word "mass" in inverted commas before. If can't all agree on what that means, then we are right up the creek without a paddle. Surely Mer will vouch for that? It ain't a trade mark, that's for sure.

I think there is nothing magical about the number three. Did you ever recall the milking stool rocking?

Speaking of which I have done a definitive, objectively-measurable, as well as audible, modification to my turntable (it has three legs); I put some tape around the drive pulley to slow it down. I could then do an A/B comparison of a 1979 CBS LP with its reincarnation as a 1990 Sony ADD CD, with the two playing at the same pitch. Partly prompted by a having bought a very nice "period instruments" DVD-A (my first) with the same music, but totally different performance. I'll write some more about that anon unless there is an overwhelming veto. There is much more detail in the DVD-A, also you really can hear the acoustic of the performance venue, a place called "Grace Church on the Hill, Toronto, Canada". Recommended. Once again it is DVD-A > LP > CD. At least on my system. The Naxos database does not seem to have it yet. Only after coming home with that did I remember I had the another version of the Charpentier Te Deum on LP and CD, bought at different times, because of the difference couplings.

Surfing to Naxos to look for that reminds me; I wonder if you were around, Larry, when we discussed KZZZ scripts by John Steinmetz.... Sounds like he must have tuned in to "Swampville FM" at some stage.

Jan,

Sorry to introduce notes of dischord. To try and help restore peace, I am fairly sure that nobody should throw away his/her CD-only player. I would love to do that LP/CD/DVD-A comparison again, but each one of my players is "budget", so it is not obvious which medium is being favoured. Playing DVD-A is much like playing CD but higher resolution and with more channels. It would be strange if a combined player is no good at CD; it has got DACs that are off the scale compared with most CD players.

If I could be sure of getting a significant improvement in sound from a better CD player I would certainly want to know. I am not going to throw away any of my CDs, any more than I would my LPs. They are part of my life. The question is, which road do we take now?

I also find things sound better after a good night's sleep. Don't know what the formula is for that.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 141
Registered: Oct-04
Kegger: "Nope." I learned long ago that, except in formal class or education situations, the surest way to make an enemy is to criticize his/her writing. You're doing just fine, my friend, so don't sweat it!

Jan: You're beginning to "sound" just like John A. - wrestling mightily to get down to the root of something - when the root is lost in the mists. Sigh.
The Rule of Three comes, indeed out of the Kabala (often spelled cabala) - was adopted by Christianity, and to a certain extent, embraced by many in the Art community. The latter comes from 15th century (and earlier) Church art, where the "tryptich" was thought to be a Devine format for art, and three panels were painted, gilded, or woven - much in the form of a modern-day "folding screen."
But the Rule of Three has also been traced way back to the Sumerians - but lost there because of a lack of written accounts.
Today, the Rule is bastardized into trite sayings, such as "accidents happen in threes," or "a three-time loser," etc. Trouble is, it's often too-true.


More anon . . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 142
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - BIG MISTAKE! Hanging my head in shame here - re the B & T. NOT Watneys - Bass Ale! Oh, how could I have been so stoooopid!!! Sorry.

I think, when I wrote about gear not being repairable, I should have been referring to "take it to the shop" repairable - not self-repair, which you are obviously more capable of doing than I am. Last time I had a soldering iron in my hands I managed to short out an amplifier. Since then, I confine my "soldering" to tinning the ends of speaker wire! (grin)
Nope, the days when I could take resistors and wires and diodes and make them all sing are long, long gone. Now - if its broke, its gone. Period.
I assume that, when you write of slowing down turntables, you're trying to match modern instrument pitch with "period" instrument pitch? The first time I did an A-B comparison with modern vs. period orchestras I about went crazy! Forgot the different A-tuning, and thought my head would explode! (grin)

Well, this will be my BIG week! New DVD/CD player, new Mahler 2nd from SanFran - and a house full of house-guests! That will surely slow me down, stereo-wise! Hmmm. . .
Oh, yes - John, do you, like Rick, use "cones" under any of your stereo gear? Or soft-n-squishy sound-deadeners? Jest wundurin' . . .

More anon . . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 143
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - L O L - and chuckles galore. Yeah, I think I worked at KZZZ - maybe even twice! Thanks for the reminder - I read about that somewhere on your forums, but don't remember whether it was a current thread or something I read from archives. Trouble is, there's more truth in his writing than I - or many others - would care to admit!!!

More, well, you know. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 325
Registered: Mar-04
What's all this about Watney's? Is it really a bad tasting brew? I remember years ago, it was one of the, if not the, very first "English ales" I ever tried. I remember liking it very much at the time. I may have to find it again and see what all the stink is about.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 144
Registered: Oct-04
Sem: Nope, Watney's is not bad-tasting at all. But John A. seems to have it in for this brew, not sure why.
As for me - in one of the postings earlier on this thread, I talked about wanting a black-and-tan, which, I initially said, is made with Stout and Watney's. Big mistake. I forgot that a proper Black and Tan is made with BASS ALE AND GUINESS (stout). Sigh.
I drink beer maybe five times a YEAR, so am hardly an expert - but I DO like my B & T's when I can get them made "correctly."

JAN: I've had it! Been researching isolation cones and other devices last night and most of the day - and my eyes are glazing over.
Do you use any of these "devices?" Sure hope what my friend makes - well - makes a difference, but I'm not holding my breath.

More anonish. . .
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest



Larry - Were the Hebrews the first to adopt the number three and its multiples as "perfect numbers'? The Southern Italians have a region, mostly Abruzzo, that has an obsession with numbers. I haven't found much out concerning how that began or if it travelled there, possibly from the Etruscans.



 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1062
Registered: Aug-04
Larry

I read on the specs for your new Yamaha DVD player that it can upconvert CD playback to 174khz. The aim: to get cd playback close to DVD-A quality. It will be interesting to hear what you think after your appraisals. This could be the start of excellent cd playback in mid price DVD players. I hope so if for no reason other than enjoyment for Merri and yourself.

A few posts back I mentioned we compared what we thought was our best DVD-A (Donald Fagan's Kamairiad) and the SACD of Steely Dan's Gaucho. We determined it was tie. Not so! We listened to both again yesterday a little more critically and we both came to the same conlusion: the SACD was the winner - slightly better depth in the mid to low range and a tad warmer but not so that the highs were not wonderfully crisp and clear. The difference was very slight but noticeable. And both recordings are excellent regardless of comparison.

This is not to say SACD's are better as we only compared what we considered the best quality sound of both formats in our meagre collection of about 32 hi-res discs.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 626
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

I look forward to your review of the cones.

Jan,

A quick follow up if you are still experimenting with speaker placement. I took what was left of the maple and basically "borrowed" the design of the Mapleshade Bedrock stand. I put all the cones in place and they sound great. Better than the 10" stands I made. Just a little extra punch on the bottom, and a little wider soundstage.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


I use primarily cones, spikes and Sorbothane footers. The footers that sit under most of my gear, other than the tube power amps, have a circle recessed in the underside where a TipToe (an aluminum cone) fits to combine the two devices. My tube pre amp has some tubes that are more microphonic than the stock tubes but offer the best sound I have found. The combination of the TipToe and the foot provides enough isolation to make them usable. That pre amp and feet sit upon the plinth from an old Well Tempered turntable. It was drilled incorrectly and was about to be discarded so I claimed it. It is made of three layers of 1" MDF with a layer of constrained damping material between the layers. That sits upon a semi-suspended shelfing unit.
The turntable itself is mostly just on locking threaded TipToes. The plinth of the VPI sits on springs which have three little tiny ball bearings on their top plate, performing the same function as cone points; and, these face the underside of the plinth. The motor is, after you get down through the damping devices, sitting on small spikes. The table itself is siting on three layers of MDF w/ damping. That sits, on spikes, on top of a Sound Anchor turntable support. Three metal tubes filled with concrete and resting on spikes.
The tube amps and the speakers are spiked. The amplifiers sit upon 3" of marble with small tiptoes underneath. The spikes on the speakers rest on pennies so they don't damage the floor.
The CD, DVD and LaserDisc are on the same foot/cone system as the pre amp and they sit on a layer of marble slabs with damping material between the various layers.
I sit on the chair.



 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1063
Registered: Aug-04
Rick

Apart from sounding great, it must also feel great with your cones in place :-)


Larry

Also: "I think, when I wrote about gear not being repairable, I should have been referring to "take it to the shop" repairable - not self-repair,"

I recall having a technics cd player years ago and the disc drawer open/close device began to act up. Sometimes it was slow to open or close, or sometimes not at all. I opened the case, saw that they had some sort of white pulley cord on the device and it seemed to slip. I replaced it with the common rubber band and it worked flawlessly for years until the player was replaced. That exercise most likely saved me $50 or more had I taken to a repair shop. Unless it had an honest owner of course.


 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1064
Registered: Aug-04
"I sit on the chair."

A three legged stool might be better to keep your head stable :-)

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2445
Registered: Dec-03
Sem,

I recommend you stick with Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout. Sorry, I am lost for words. Watney's Red Barrel was a legend in its lifetime. Which was mercifully short. The Travel Agent Sketch did for it, in the end, I think. Good thing, too.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2446
Registered: Dec-03
Jan,

I use primarily cones, spikes and Sorbothane footers

There is no answer to that.

The spikes on the speakers rest on pennies so they don't damage the floor.

They have to dig in to the floor, to transmit the resonances away. That is like having an isolated ground, to prevent stress to earthworms. Leaving holes in the floor is part of the fun.

I sit on the chair.

Once, before the WAF, I sawed 4" off the legs of my favourite chair in order to bring my ears down to the tweeter axis. It worked very well. Mrs A says this is one of the warning signs which she wishes she had heeded.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 627
Registered: Dec-03
Rantz,

Thank you. It is paramount that one places his cones very, very carefully.

John,

I wish I could have seen the look on Mrs. A's face. Was it the cow and the passing train look?
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 145
Registered: Oct-04
Oh, my - trying to catch up.

J. Vigne - well, there is a lot of mystery about this "3" subject. Some say that it went through the Phoenicians to the forebears of your people, the Italians. Some say it went into eastern Europe, where the Jews picked it up and made it their secret. Sigh.
Mer says there are hundreds of references, but nothing "conclusive." I believe her.
She also says there is evidence that the rule of 3 broke down in the 14th century to become "the golden rule." No, not the commandment, the rule, in the Art world, that a ratio of 1.618 to 1.00 was the "perfect" rule for art-creation. Michaelangelo used it, so did Da Vinci, so did Pecasso, so did Mozart, in his musical transformations in the Masonic Order.
Gets a bit heavy-handed here, and I'm on very shaky ground, so will only say that the R of 3 has had an impact on "civilized" society for hundreds of years - but has been pretty much sidelined in recent history.

My Rantz: - yeah, one of the "pluses" in the Yamaha is the 4x upsampling that it can do - switchable, of course. I've read where it really helps those old CDs - especially the early Deutsche Gramophone ones - and thus I'm looking forward to trying it out. Will report, sir!
A rubber band? How novel! - yep - use whatever you have at your disposal - it's probably about as good as "standard" repairs!

John A. - in reading more, and more, and more, and more about these darned CONES, I also find that in many cases the use of a small similar-metal "plate" at the point of the cone helps greatly in dispersion of unwanted vibrations. After reading that, I asked my friend if he could "mate" some liddle plates for me, and he said that would be "no problem."
BTW, I called him tonight, and he said that he'd lied a bit - that the rod stock is only one inch thick - so the cones will be a bit smaller than I thought. He expected that each one will weigh in at about a quarter of a pound, maybe a tad less. Much less than Rick's total-pounders!!

JV - just reading your posting makes my head hurt! I'll never take that route - I'd rather have less-than-perfect sound than to do all the tweaks that you've obviously done. Sigh.

OK - what have I not addressed - will have to go back and review the thread.

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 146
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - pick-up here - from what I read, the use of pennies or similar-metal "plates" under the cone tips actually helps vibration-dispersion. Of course, this is all speculation, so what the heck do I know!?! (grin)

JV - a PS here - many artists - Mer included - still use and swear by the Golden Rule. She uses it in EVERY one of her paintings. Says she feels uncomfortable with the ratios if she does not.
For what it's worth. . .
 

Classical 1
Unregistered guest
Hi, everybody. Thought I'd check in one last time, as I am about to go on one of Larry R's Big Voyages. We leave sometime tomorrow - on a Calibre 40 sailboat, with five of us aboard.
Life has surely taken a turn, with my decision to scrap my company, rent out my house, and just pick up and leave for up to a year.
this is where my inheritance makes ALL the difference! I've had to stock up on all sorts of things, from special life vests to a new and wonderful Rolex Mariner timepiece, which, I suppose, is much like what Larry R had when he and his wife made that awful voyage across the Gulf of Mexico?
I've taken the liberty of printing up Larry's story, and distributing it to everybody on this trip - and their families. We'll try very hard NOT to make the same mistakes they made!
Well, I must end this, and make sure I have the sea-bands and other anti-sea sickness measures!
Have a great winter, and I hope to check in with you in the spring!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1066
Registered: Aug-04
Classical 1

Bon Voyage - stay safe & well!



Larry,

"that a ratio of 1.618 to 1.00 was the "perfect" rule for art-creation."

The same ratio is evident in many forms of nature. It is well documented in Brown's Da Vinci Code. All interesting stuff!

 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 326
Registered: Mar-04
Classical 1,
Best of luck. May the sun shine on your vessel and the seas remain calm.

John A.
Ok, Samual Smith it is then, hardly a letdown as you know. I have some in my garage, which is about 30 degrees right now, much easier to keep cold.

Larry,
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on your new player. Please keep us posted.




"EVERYTHING COMES IN THREES"
Not true. In reality, everything comes in ones. Sometimes, when three "ones" come in a row, it seems like everything comes in threes. By the way, in medieval times it was widely believed that everything came in twenty-sixes. They were wrong, too. It just took them longer to recognize the pattern.
- George Carlin


 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 147
Registered: Oct-04
MR - yes, sir, the "Golden Rule" is evidenced in many artistic endeavors - and yes, I'd almost forgotten the Da Vinci Code, with which I have some issues, but which is a good story!

Sem: Yes, will keep you informed. FedEx says it is in Ft. Lauderdale now, which means that I'll be getting it either late Monday or on Tuesday. Sigh. Too anxious for my own good! And - love the Carlin quote - he surely has a "unique" mind!

Now - forum members, please excuse this - -
to Classical 1 - sorry you didn't have the courtesy to at least post an e-mail saying "thank you" for all the lists, contacts, etc. I sent to you. And please remember that the story of the Gypsy IS copyright material? Thank you.
You made your point, sir: you've got an inheritance, and a bigger boat than I had, and a watch I'd never be able to afford. Was that your point? If so, well, you've managed to embarrass me in front of my friends. Sorry for you. BTW, my watch was, indeed, waterproof, but cost $47 at a discount store - about $2,300 less than yours.
Still, I wish you Godspeed on your journey.

Sorry, gang, but my "petty" side got the better of me. Won't happen again. Triple sigh. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1067
Registered: Aug-04
Larry

Using the Golden Rule, you did have the bigger boat: 35ft divided by three = 11 2/3 ft per person. A forty footer divided by five is only 8ft per person. Judging by the Rolex it seems the other four crew travelling with Class 1 must be the Jones's, so communicating with the 'ordinary folk' might not be well regarded in such circles. Fear not friend 'twas not you who should feel embarrassed.

In fact your story has earned you and Merri much respect on this board - Vivid and cones notwithstanding :-)

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 148
Registered: Oct-04
Sir Rantz: (sigh) sorry, shouldn't have "gone off" like that.
Thank you for kind words. I'll try my best never to burdon you again with the likes of "super CD enhancers" and "death-to-vibration cones!" (double grin)(I know, "fat chance")
Now - anybody got some PeptoBismol? thanx. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2447
Registered: Dec-03
Classical 1,

Thanks for the update and the best of luck. Personally, I think you have earned a break like that, and a fine adventure.

Larry,

My first reaction was that Classical 1 paid you a considerable compliment, and was thanking you for the tips and for the inspiration. I very much doubt he had any thought of embarrassing you. Quite on the contrary.

well, there is a lot of mystery about this "3" subject

"3" is the whole number between "2" and "4". Any three points define a plane. That is why the milking stool did not rock, and why something with three feet is less likely to vibrate than something with four.

Phi is another story.

Sem,

There was once an organisation called the Campaign for Real Ale, a sort of orchestrated consumer revolt against being told what to drink. It worked. Watneys got both barrels, as it were, and deserved it, imho. Not only was the beer bad, but they bought up pubs, put decent brewers out of business, and imposed the same garish decor inside and out, regardless of architectural style. It was not just their beer that had no taste. I think they were going for brand recognition at any cost. They got what they wanted! They forgot there was a product, and people might make up their own minds on what was good and what was not.

I think "what we want" now is a Campaign for Real Sound Quality....

Jan,

Cones on pennies; OK. Spikes on pennies just seems daft, to me. Mind, like MR, one of my speakers has spikes on tiles. That probably makes little sense, too.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1069
Registered: Aug-04
"Mind, like MR, one of my speakers has spikes on tiles. That probably makes little sense, too."

If anyone knows the average slate floor they'd know each tile is uneven with ridges and dips - not planed smooth like a billard table. I don't appreciate the "little sense" insinuation. But then coming from an obsessive sacd conspiracist the thinking was once again flawed.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 149
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - I was going to let Classical 1's comments just die away - but since you read into his comments something I do not - a little background, please.

Don't remember just how it started, but he e-mailed me, asking about my sailing experience, and wondering what sort of equipment I'd used, etc.
As time went on he began asking for more and more things from me - maps, charts, contacts for boat repairs, GPS waypoints and rhumb line courses to various places. All these I kept sending him - often working for days to put together what he wanted.
He acknowledged receipt - but as I look over his e-mails to me, he NEVER ONCE said "thank you." It was always something like: I got your pack, but I wonder if you would please add to that with. . . ."
In his e-mails he would constantly refer to what he owned, and how he felt sorry for his neighbors, who "lived lower on the scale" than he did. He also made a point of telling me that his house had just been appraised at 1.1-million dollars, then asked point-blank how much my house was worth. He told me that he was going to buy a Rolex, and when I told him I had a Seiko (as I remember) he said something like "well, if you'd had a Rolex you might not have gotten into that fix." How a Rolex would have "saved" us, I have no idea. . .
Finally, I agreed to send him some stuff that I no longer use or care about - they're binder-books full of strip charts for the west side of Florida, and down the chain of Caribbean Islands. Must have either lost my mind or been struck by some misplaced feeling of charity, because I told him that I was envious of his voyage, and would give them to him as a "going-away" present. They were once worth about $300 - now about half of that.
I offered to bring them up to him in Sarasota, as we have good friends there - who live about a half-mile from his house. But he said that he "didn't have time to see me," and to just pop them in FedEx and send them. My expense, you understand! Didn't have time to see me? Well, OK, I think I finally got the message: "go away, little guy."
Classical 1, if you're reading this, I hope you learn that it is hurtful to keep boasting about yourself, while putting down people with "no inheritance."

BTW - I learned Classical 1's name - not from him, but from my friends. So - Paul Davis - enjoy your sail - and all the gifts.

Sorry, John - but I had to "vent" a bit on this one, because first I didn't have the guts to really stand up to this guy, and second I hate to be "taken advantage of" at my advanced age.

Finally - IF, as you claim, John, Classical 1 WAS trying to pay me a compliment - then I apologize to him and to you all for my antagonistic comments. Age does not necessarily equate with common sense. . .

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 150
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - BTW - if you're wondering how my friends knew "Classical 1" - well, I told them about the "consultant with the Colgate 26" who lived on Siesta Key - where they live, and they said, oh, you mean. . . Siesta Key is a strip island, and most everybody who lives there knows, well, everybody else. A neat place if you're not afraid of hurricanes! They got hit, but for some reason the island got sorta "skipped over."
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2449
Registered: Dec-03
My Rantz,

Apologies. That was not at all aimed at you. I was suggesting my own spikes on tiles make little sense. I added "like MR" when I remembered the comfortable feeeling of seeing you did the same.

BTW you might be interested in the thread ..Reason's Why Sony Sucks...... Personally, I am still getting good service after many years from some older Sony products, and have said so, there. I still have a 1980s Sony TV. The picture is superb. I had a high opinion of Sony for quality and price. I do suggest that they have now taken an entirely different strategy. I could be wrong, and hope I am. But these sorts of things happen. Watney's had to make great beer, once upon a time, otherwise the brand would have been of no use to the clowns who bought it and decided they could then tell people what to drink. On this forum, at least, the name "Bose" seems the nearest we can get to "Watney's". And likewise, if I understand Jan, and others, correctly, "Bose" was once a respected name in hi-fi. Again, these things happen. Mostly when control goes to people who have no understanding of the product, or of the people who buy it. It is the way of the world. Some of my cherished names are now attached to junk, and for much those sorts of reasons. It is sad, but there it is. I don't think this is paranoid. On another thread, I think, I posted a recent ad for "Tandberg". Jan, at least, understood the pain! When I was in Aus, people whom I judged to be good guys seemed sad about Holden cars; I never got the full story. MG-Rover was bought by independents from BMW (!) a few years ago, and the new board are alledged to be paying themselves the highest salaries in the motor industry while watching the brands die. Their idea of brand postioning in recent TV ads makes me cringe. It seems calculated to alienate their potential customers, whose fathers might have owned, say, a Rover 2000. The new ones might still be good cars, I don't know. Clever marketing has done wonders for mediochre products, too. This is what marketing is designed to do. Increase sales. The questions remain, and were raised at the start of this thread, whether some audio products and technologies really deliver what their manufacturer's promise. Sometimes we get less than were led to expect. Sometimes we get things we didn't bargain for.

Larry,

Thanks. This is a public forum. "Classical 1" made some great and interesting posts, in my opinion. And to the point of the thread. I thank him for those. His last post read, to me, like a big "thank you", addressed to everyone contributing here.

I have also been queried in private messages, my answers to which were been ignored. Let us regret the passing of civility, and the growing trend to regard other people as mere instruments of one's own advancement. There seems to be a sort of perverse celebration of selfishness in much popular culture. Whether this is an Old Dogs' distemper I do no know. I worry sometimes that Mrs A and I have handicapped our children by insisting they try to think of others before themselves.

PS My preview appeared with an ad, in the right margin, for a Bose Wave Radio. Wonder if the screening takes place before or after the search for offensive words. Do not underestimate the power of digital technology. It is amazing what they can do.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


Just for those who care, from today's New York Times:



ON THIS DAY

On Nov. 15, 1969, a quarter of a million protesters staged a peaceful demonstration in Washington, D.C., against the Vietnam War.
• See this front page



 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 327
Registered: Mar-04
John A. wrote:

quote:

I worry sometimes that Mrs A and I have handicapped our children by insisting they try to think of others before themselves.


Oh do not worry John, the world will be a somewhat better place because of their "handicap."
The "three R's" should actually include a fourth, - respect. It sounds as if your kids have learned this. Very nice.



 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2451
Registered: Dec-03
Jan,

Thanks. Whew, that is 35 years ago! A few years before, at my school, a girl reputed to be free with her favours had the same initials as the US president. Several of the street-wise boys were said to have been "All the way with LBJ".

Sem,

Thank you, too. That is kind, and I agree; respect should be the first "R". Ours are doing OK, I think. The grown ones have a defence in the form of a sort of deep scepticism about what they are told, and asked to believe. This can be a great way to make enemies. They have trust and loyalty, too, but they are not lightly won.

Returning to audio, I have discovered my receiver's "Ext 5.1" input gives better sound than any of the others, even if I give the L and R just a two-channel anologue input from say, CD. So I have been inconsciously stacking the odds in favour of DVD-A's "hi-res". It is still there, though, even allowing for that. I think the newer NAD receivers' "stereo direct" probably does the same, missing out an input board that cuts some of the fast transient response. This also explains the great sound of CD on my two-channel system with direct feed from CD/DVD (NAD T532) player to power amp (Sony, by the way).

There is one very happy DVD-A convert called Elmosaurus on NAD A/V receiver hiss issue: I cannot be imagining all this!

Cheers. Must go.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 628
Registered: Dec-03
On the Rule of 3's, please contemplate this: Whatever you give out, comes back to you threefold. This is called the rule of threes. This is what dogma and karma are all about. "Dogma" is our belief system or personal creed-the principles we live by. "Karma," on the other hand is comprised of previous actions, present actions we take, and future actions resulting from our dogma. however, it should be noted that people commonly refer to karma as the reaction we receive as a result of the actions we take. The benefit or reaction we receive as a result of our actions is often in proportion to the rule of 3's. We receive it THREEFOLD. I like three because there is always power in three. What I am trying to get at is this: if we want to receive a lot, we must give something out first. However much we give out will dictate the returns we receive.

There's a catch to the rule of 3's. We can't expect to receive "it" back from the person or thing we put our energy into. Yes, we'll get it back somewhere else. Perhaps in a way or form we never expected. I can say that for sure. This is where the cliche "what goes around comes around" comes from. I think today, I'm going to give somewhere, and not expect it to come back. This thought process of giving is the one we want to have. To avoid taking others, or situations for granted. When we don't take others for granted, we can be grateful for when we really do receive our returns. A key is just to be happy and thankful for what we have, and our ability to love others, and let it simply be. Strive only to live a simple, elegant life.

Sorry for rambling, but I quess sharing this with you is my giving for the day. It's funny because I didn't think of it, in that way, when I started it. Life is good.

Cheers!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 151
Registered: Oct-04
OK, GANG - Yamaha's Here!

forgetting all of the above - I've now unpacked, tweaked, read, plugged, tweaked, puzzled, read, turned, pushed, pulled. Whew!

So far, I've got only digital and analog stereo working - all of the SACD plugs are hanging out the back - impotently awaiting my scrunching down around the main cabinet, gunking with silver, plugging, gunking, plugging - etc.

GULP

I may NEVER get this thing all the way "up!"

Testing, testing - there are so many settings I get just plain confused!

Ah - OK -

Well, started off with a Lorraine Hunt Lieberson CD of Handel arias. Illuminating! Thrilling!

Went to the Mahler 5th - OH, MY GOD! Picture and sound were so larger-than-life I couldn't take my eyes off the screen. I was hearing things I'd simply not heard before. Stopped it.

Went to - who else - Natalie Dessay. Big mistake. Started the disc and her voice just rang out through my body, it was so amazing. Gone were the high stridency and tinniness - here was mid-range sound that was, well, "human" and warm. Here was a range of low notes that simply were "mud" in the past.

Well, gang, I sat right down on the living room floor and immersed myself in the sound. A short time Mer came in from the garage, where she's doing a class in sculpting. She took a look at me and said in alarm: "Lar - what's wrong!?" Well, nothing was wrong, I was just sitting there like a lump with big tears running down my face. The sound was that good.

I've a long way to go with this player, but so far, it far exceeds my expectations, and, uh, well, I think I'll keep her! (sob sob)

I'll post more definitive stuff after I get all the SACD wires (arggghhhh) hooked up - probably tomorrow.

As to the Cl. 1 - well, I'm just getting past it and John is probably right. No more. . .

The Mahler 2nd should be here this aft or tomorrow, and will post reviews of it on the "Discoveries" thread.

Peace and great music to all!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 152
Registered: Oct-04
Rick: Just went back to your posting - ah, yes, you are SO correct, sir.
"Strive only to live a simple, elegant life." As I sit here with Ms. Dessay overjoying me in the background - yes, sir. Simple. Elegant. That is what it's all about. Thank you, Rick, for that!
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 629
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

Your thank you was one of my rewards.......you are most welcome, sir.

PS Enjoy the music!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1070
Registered: Aug-04
Larry,

Happy that you're happy with the Yammy - so far so good!

Rick

Thanks for starting my day by putting a lump in my throat with your wistful words of wisdom. They are good words and they make one think, however the trick, of course, is to take action.
Well done!

John A,

Apology accepted. Re: the Sony link - saw your input there and quickly noted it was just more of your self-professed conspiratorial luncy of which I am endeavouring now to ignore.

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