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Budget $1500

 

dustin333
Unregistered guest
i have 1500 to 2000 dollars depending on what receiver. Was lookin at the rotel or arcam 300 or Marantz maybe the NAD. Any other suggestions for the money.
Need opinions on which one is the best buy for the money. I am pushing Athena ASF-2 floor speakers and my sub will be in near future svs pci 20-39 need suggestions
 

Silver Member
Username: Bleustar

Pensacola, Florida

Post Number: 187
Registered: Jul-04
Arcam 300 or the NAD T773, although the NAD is susceptable to hum/hiss problems. I'm not trying to start a NAD debate here, just stating what is obvious to most people who talk about such things.
 

dustin333
Unregistered guest
do you know where i can get any kind of deal on a Arcam 300
 

dustin333
Unregistered guest
and what is with the hum or hiss that i have also read about in these forums. Is it obvious if so why would people continue to buy that brand. I also thought that i read they have new firmware version 2.o for it to solve the hiss I dont know just asking.
 

Elmosaurus
Unregistered guest
dustin,

From a discussion with my dealer, who was informed by the rep directly, there was a QC build issue while NAD stepped up their factory's overseas to handle the new lines of T7x3 units.

As of a month or two ago, most of those manufactured units have been recalled from all authorized dealers, and replaced or will shortly be replaced with version 2.0 units, that are entirely different firmware. (in the T763/T773, MSHDCD is gone, but DPLIIx is in; and a few other changes to the OSD occurred)

Provided you audition and can determine you are looking at a NIB Version 2.0 unit from an authorized dealer, (there is a vibrant sticker on the outside of the cardboard box to delineate the new version inside) there should be no hum or hiss issues whatsoever.

FYI, the hum was a poorly spec'd pair of diodes near the powersupply that were frying due to the increase in heat from earlier designs; they are now spec'd within the heat range generated, and will not 'die' on their own.

The 'hiss' that many will hear now is normal amplifier hiss when no filters are employed; I've auditioned dozens of other higher end amps, and they all produce this noise when you attach very efficient speakers to them with good cable. It's barely audible unless you get within a foot of a speaker, and doesn't become audible at listening distance until the system is driving WAY beyond audibly tolerable levels; you'd be deaf quickly if source was playing at that same distance.

In general, the Rotels and Arcams are also very good units; You'd not do bad with ANY of the three. It's purely preference for tonal character, and ease of use that should determine which you end up with.

Honestly, don't trust a internet audio pundit one way or another; please take a genuine attempt at auditioning them for yourself, that way, you'll never have any regrets because you'll know for sure with YOUR ears what suits you and what didn't.

And only then, will your money be wisely spent.

E.

 

dustin333
Unregistered guest
thats just it i have tested all three can't make up my mind I know i can get the NAD 773 for 1700 and the arcam 300 for 1999 but was trying to find better deal for this. The Rotel for around 1650. what would in your opinion be the best bang for your buck.
 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 882
Registered: Dec-03
Elmo,
You say don't trust a internet pundit and listen for yourself which is good advice but what about the almost countless disgruntled NAD owners who have posted their frustrating experiences with NAD over the last year or so. Is one to pay no mind to them? These people are not pundits but unhappy customers. This would weigh on my mind if I was looking at a NAD.
 

Elmosaurus
Unregistered guest
If they all sound the same to you, I would suggest taking your follow up audition 'up a notch'; set up an appointment where you can bring your own speakers and have them hooked in, so you will get a better idea how each prospective unit will sound to YOU in YOUR home using YOUR other gear. (A CD or DVD source you trust won't hurt either; eliminate as many new variables as you can)

If they all STILL sound tonally equivalant to you, and you're pleased with all of them, then choose based on ease of use and remote control abilities; those are the next most important things that you'll have to interact with day to day during the use of your new piece.

If after ALL that, you STILL can't make up your mind, then the little details that you normally might ignore should be considered; how the manufacturer treats service calls, (length of warranty, courtesy during service, timeliness of service, etc) how the back panel is laid out for connections, or, even what the unit LOOKS like. (yes, even aesthetics DO eventually come into the equation)

In the end, you're looking at flagship units from each of three major midrange audiophile companies with a very good pedigree; you WILL NOT lose too badly regardless of which you choose.

(I hesitate to disclose which of the three I have because I do not want to 'take a side'; this advice I give should be seen as objective thought on the buying process)

E.


 

Elmosaurus
Unregistered guest
therealelitefan,

If you read what I initially wrote carefully, and do enough (some say too much) research like I did, you'll understand that ALOT of those complaints came from buyers who got the first runs of the new T7x3 series units starting back in early '04.

As I said, NAD has informally admitted to their dealers through their reps actions that there was a QC problem in that run, and are actively addressing it by recalling all authorized dealer's in stock units and reshipping Vers. 2.0 units in their place. It is THIS Ver 2.0 that I suggest people audition, as I and many other people have witnessed that NAD seems to have gotten the issue straightened out.

There is a sticker on the outside of the box that vibrantly indicates this, and I will post a link to it as soon as I can.

I have not seen or heard from anyone with an AUTHORIZED NAD DEALER REP REPLACED version 2.0 unit with any reported problems.

I'm reluctantly NOT counting the few reports of people who say they warrantied their old version for the new unit, because many thought they were getting the new unit, but ended up with the old firmware just the same; so I can't comfortably say that those supposed version 2.0 units were the final revision that ended up in the 'dealer unit swap'.

Regardless, this is why I suggest a direct audition for each of the units by a purchaser; that way, he knows exactly what he is getting, and if he so likes it, he can even request to take THAT SPECIFIC UNIT.

I hope that makes sense,

E.

 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 940
Registered: Feb-04
"I have not seen or heard from anyone with an AUTHORIZED NAD DEALER REP REPLACED version 2.0 unit with any reported problems."

I've heard many people having the hiss problem with 'authorized' v2.0 NADs. I actually haven't heard about anyone who had a hissing V1 and got the problem fixed with V2.

Elmosaurus, have you tried headphones with the NAD? Get any hiss at low volumes?
 

Elmosaurus
Unregistered guest
landroval,

Yes, it was one of the first things I did when auditioning the unit. Plugged my rarely used set of Sennheiser's in (unused because now that I'm not in college, I don't need them anymore) and got a very low low level hiss, at 0 db but nothing that was unusual. (I could not discern a hiss at -00 db or -74 db)

On a side note, part of me wonders (but will never be able to confirm) if the same users that had a V1 hiss and a repeated V2 hiss, might not have very clean main power lines... I theorize that a poor ground might actually now leave unshielded and ungrounded chassis components vunerable to this noise. But that's a theory on the left wing, so I don't normally openly discuss it since I have no proof.

The worst part about this 'hiss' issue is that it's a subjective determination; what is 'obvious' or 'overt' to some people is 'minor' and 'inconsequential' to others. My personal experience with a variety of higher end serperates amps has shown me that even units costing 4 times the cost will have a level of amplifier hiss; without filtering the signal (to enure all original source is processed) sometimes the noise gets through. At these minute levels, it's ok to many of us.

What I don't get is those 'net audiophile pundits that raise the red flag and cry mortal foul as soon as a manufacturer's name comes up. (not just NAD) Were they wronged so badly that it scarred them for life? Did the maligned unit devour their first born and laugh as their spouse cried a pool of tears? LOL.

I firmly believe each and every unit should always be given a chance if there's an inclination to even look at it; especially when a prior history of other units from a manufacturer showed no blantant disregard for quality. (this goes for ALL manufacturers)

As an engineer, I know that sometimes things go wrong. It's just the nature of manufacturing. At the business margins that are dictated in todays world, one sometimes has to wonder how first run products even make it to the shelf without major issues; today's retail consumer is so spoiled with the idea that everything is flawless from the box that units with issues today have come to be true anomolies in today's world.


The end line as I keep coming back to; as a potential buyer, audition them all for yourself. Either you'll be happy, or you won't.

We buy these components for our own enjoyment, not so that we can brag and play them back for other people, right?


E.
 

dustin333
Unregistered guest
what i am wondering in your opinion is it worth shucking out the extra dollars for the arcam or just as easily go with one of the others just the same quality but lesser value
 

dustin333
Unregistered guest
I would be using whatever receiver i choose more for 7.1 surround for movies and probably less than 30% music.
 

Elmosaurus
Unregistered guest
dustin,

It's hard to say, because it's your money, not mine. An extra $100 from $1500 to $1600 is not a stretch for someone that has a couple thousand dollars a month to spend; it can be a deal breaker for someone that took 4 months to save up that $1500 to begin with. See my point? This is why I hesitate to give advice on 'is it worth it?', because 'worth' changes from person to person.

And, just like there are many opinions on possible NAD quality with a 'hiss', there are internet rumors that the Arcam 300 is a little on the weak side when driven loudly. (what is 'loudly' though? it's another subjective vague benchmark) Along those lines, the Rotel has been 'internet commented' as 'possibly not as musical' as the NAD or Arcam. (yet another subjective benchmark)

If you have ANY preponderance (lean) towards a brand, then just get it; since it's the one you'll probably be most subconsciously happy with, and ultimately, that will contribute to overall joy, since you won't have any lingering 'what if' regrets.

Based on your posts above, you directly reference and shoot for a 'better deal' on the Arcam more than once; it would seem to me that their unit is the one you seem to desire. (hopefully this is not based on it being the most expensive of the three, and supposedly the best because of that)

If worst comes to worst, flip a three sided coin. ;)

LOL.

E.

 

Bronze Member
Username: Mitchbd

Post Number: 55
Registered: Feb-04
Elmo... Regarding your theory. I have a new v2 T773. It replaced an original T763. Thi unit is quite... with no hiss. The only other thing changed in the system is the addition of a power conditioner - as the A/C line (like most) was very noisy. And that's in a new house in a new development. Don't trust your power!

I liked the sarcasm in that one post... there certainly are some jaded people here. (Standby for the backlash!)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mitchbd

Post Number: 56
Registered: Feb-04
wow... my spelling sucked there.... second line should have read

The new unit is quiet... with no hiss.

Sorry! :-)

B
 

Anonymous
 
for what it's worth, i recently did an in home audition of the 753 with version 2.0 firmware installed. the hiss was still there at any volume other than 00. this was repeatable in my dealer's showroom as well...
 

Unregistered guest
Own a NAD, too.
http://www.clodbooks.com/alfredeneuman.html
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sound_advice

Post Number: 77
Registered: Sep-04
I had a Nad t773 version 2.03 and the hiss was audible at over 15 feet no joke. To me that is not acceptable. On the other hand it did sound good, just not for me.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sound4bargain

Post Number: 13
Registered: Oct-04
Dustin,
I will leave the hiss and hums to the other threads. At your budget have you considered pre - amp combos say from Outlaw or foresake 2 channels you could even get a NAD T163(7.1) and the NAD S250 (5 channel) amp. Add the other 2 channels amp later. Saturday Audio has an incredible deal on this set up. But I do say listen to what you want to buy with your own speakers and take the media you will listen to with you. An audio room with 2 channels can blow you away may not be quite the same in multichannel in a room not quite acoustically perfect ie like rooms in our house. Outlaw will give you a 30 day in home test run.
 

dustin333
Unregistered guest
are seperates better for home theatre as well
I know seperates are better for home stereo we all know that. Cause I have been looking at the rotel 1067 or the ARCAM 300. As opposed to the idea of separates. whats ur uptake on this.
ANYONE!!
 

Silver Member
Username: Kano

Post Number: 103
Registered: Oct-04
There's more high end seperates, therefore the best system will be built with seperates. There's more variety, and with it the ability to custom taylor the sound to your liking, and they can exceed any receiver's max wattage output.

Not all seperates will beat all receivers, but the potential is there.

Apart from the Sunfire Ultimate Reciever, who else even makes that grade of receiver? The high end market is held down by seperates.
 

dustin333
Unregistered guest
for $2000 dollars what seperates would beat out the new ARCAM 300 or Rotel 1067. I would be using these components more for movies I would say ratio 70/30 to music
 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 889
Registered: Dec-03
I am not going to say they beat Rotel or Arcam but for under $2000 the first seperates to look at are Outlaw. Check out their website for info. I believe it's outlawaudio.com but I could be wrong ; I have found them on all search engines.
Outlaw has gotten great reviews and some favorable comments on this board. They have a combination amp/preamp for $1700 that is first rate and a real bargain. Mail order only but a 30 day return policy.
 

dustin333
Unregistered guest
i went to the outlaw audio website to check out the seperates they offered this also looked promising. Now is this clean warm sound if so how does it rate to the ARCAM 300 or Rotel 1067.
the outlaw package i looked at was the 950 preamp/processor combined with the 770 7.1 amplifier. Any thoughts opinions?
 

dustin333
Unregistered guest
Now if I was to do the 30 day at home trial this company has to offer the only negative is you have to suffer with the shipping now normally shipping isn't to bad but the amp alone in this package is over 90lbs. But Im seriously giving this a lot of thought just need some thoughts and opinions cause i never really thought of going with seperates. My only concern is I watch more movies than I do listen to music and I want to know about the quality where it ranks among the ARCAM AVR 300 and the ROTEL AVR 1067
 

Elmosaurus
Unregistered guest
dustin,

Honestly, if you are not going to listen to music that critically, you may be going way overboard here.

You started by asking for a unit in the sub $1400 price range many threads ago, and are now stretching way up over $2k on potential seperates.

The MAJORITY of the quality differences you'd perceive among these units really only comes out in CRITICAL MUSICALITY. Most movies will sound about the same from all of them.

Rememer that $500 difference will buy at LEAST 25 top titles DVD movies, if not more. (based on $20 average price per unit)

Or a new pair of speakers that could easily change the tonal quality of the music you DO end up listening to.


Just my $0.02,....

E.

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