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Quad 11L or 12L plus sub versus Quad 21L

 

Dayne
Unregistered guest
Hi guys / gals. Please help me with the above dilemma. I have no way of testing the Quads, I am getting them online. I'm looking for good sound primarily for stereo music listening as well as a decent movie watching experience. The speakers would be powered by a NAD C320BEE. Please also recommend a few decent subs (we don't get everything here in Durban, South Africa) in the region of $300 / £200 to compliment the 11L's or 12L's if I choose to go that way. Thanks.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 886
Registered: Feb-04
I would definitely get the 11L or 12L with a sub. With movies the sub will be very usefull, while with music atleast the 12L can manage without the sub, or you can put the x-over very low. Look for REL Quake2, MJ Acoustics Reference 100.
 

OnimushaLord
Unregistered guest
Agree with landroval regarding the Quad 11/12L + sub (can try out the latest Wharfedale SW150 or Mordaunt-Short MS309). I would get the 12L over the 11L anytime for music.
The above subs are award winners in their own class and really perform despite their budget pricing :-)
For the stereo amp, u might wanna try the Cambridge Azur 640A or NADC352. The NAD320BEE or Rotel RA01/Marantz PM7200 are kinda out nowadays with the new kids storming in, although they still perform up to expectations. These days, even a Yamaha RXV1400 (AV receiver) in stereo 2channel sound as good as all those above. Just my $0.02

Cheers
 

Dayne
Unregistered guest
Thanks both for your input. My leaning was to the Quad 11L / 12L plus sub. Your opinions have given me more confidence in this. I can't find an MJ Acoustics supplier in South Africa, so the REL Quake seems like the choice of sub. The decision now is between the 11L & 12L. You both seem to favour the 12L and in another thread Hawk seems to think the NAD C320BEE is better suited to the 12L (would like to hear more from him). My understanding is that the 12L benefits from more bass. Would this not be negated by having the REL Quake complimenting the 11L say? I'm not that clued up on these things (but am very interested). Another problem I fear I may have is connecting the speakers and the sub to the C320BEE. I think it only has one pair of speaker outputs. I read somewhere that ideally you want the REL Quake to be plugged into speaker outputs to compliment your speakers. Any ideas?
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 894
Registered: Feb-04
I liked the 12L more than 11L. It's deeper and warmer sounding and can play louder cleaner than the 11L. It 'feels' better and isn't much more expensive. It also makes possible a lower x-over with the sub.

You can run two set of speaker wires from the amp. One set for the speakers and one for the sub which will just take the line-level info out of it.
 

Dayne
Unregistered guest
Thanks again landroval. I have since spotted some reviews in Stereophile - Polk RTi4, Epos ELS-3 & Infinity Primus 150 all received glowing reviews. Any idea how these compare to the Quads?
 

Pops
Unregistered guest
Try auditioning the Quad 21L. I think its the best among the L series.
 

Dayne
Unregistered guest
I have unfortunately no means to audition the Quads -- I will be having them shipped to me. I am relying on the goodwill of the ecoustics community to inform on this one. I am starting to appreciate that the cost of speaker stands means that the 12L cost the same as the 21L. Which leaves the 11L (or equivalent) plus sub on the one hand and the 21L on the other?
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 898
Registered: Feb-04
The RTi4, ELS3 or Primus 150 are nowhere near the quality of the Quads. I would say the Dynaudio Audiences are the closest option for Quads, but they are slightly more expensive for the same sound quality.

11L + QuakeII or 21L. That's a tough question. The QuakeII will go lower than the 21L, but It cant play very loud to be effective with movies for example. The 21L will need a bigger room than the 11L+sub, but probably it will produce a more uniform sound with lower price and smaller amount of gadgets like stands, sub, cables etc.
 

Dayne
Unregistered guest
Thanks landroval - it's a terrible cliché I know but I've found your comments to be very sound advice. Please just elaborate on your one comment: "The QuakeII will go lower than the 21L, but It cant play very loud to be effective with movies for example". I wasn't sure if the "cant" was a typo and if you were referring to the Quake of 21L. As for room size, is 5x4m considered small?
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 902
Registered: Feb-04
I dont really know what I was trying to say. I meant that the QuakeII works very well with music, but it's not a very powerfull sub which would give high sound pressure with movies. That may not be a problem, but If you want more effect with movies you should get something 'bigger'.
 

cass
Unregistered guest
Hi Dayne,
I bought a pair of 21l about two months ago and they are GREAT if you cant spent twice their price get them. You may still need a sub though depends on what music you listen to? Quad just brought out their L sub its a bit expencive though around 700P i think.
 

mauimusicman
Unregistered guest
Ypu may wanna read this review before purchasing Quad 11's or 12's:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/quad_11_12_e.html
Some quotes:"It just is a little bit critical in placement, and may not like all the music that you feed it" "On 'Introducing Ruben Gonzalez' the instruments struck me as quite alright, even when voices were somewhat thin sounding. Likewise, Loreena McKennitt's "The Visit" avoided hardness and harshness, but left a certain "pointiness" and lightness" "First the tiny 11L. Below 200Hz output drops as a whole by some 3dB, and rolls off sharply below 80Hz. This relative lack of bass luckily is compensated with a slow treble droop between 1 and 6kHz, the highs going mute eventually above 12kHz" "The larger 12L is a different kettle of fish. Its output is nicely flat between 70Hz and 2kHz, very slowly rolling off above and below. Free standing output at 50Hz is still -7dB. This speaker should be used in the free field, or at the very least not close against a wall or in a corner!"
Mute above 7K? YIKES! Down 7db at 50 cycles? Not much bass or treble there folks. Thats fine if you wanna listen to 1khz test tones, but bad for music.
When I read the speaker doesn't like certian music, it tells me there are phase problems associated with that speaker. How can a hi-fi speaker NOT like certian music? Just think about that for a bit. Let it dwell in your head a while before you waste your money. My advice? Keep looking.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 920
Registered: Feb-04
That sounds like BS to me. Seems like he is accustomed to $10k speakers or something. Although he also felt the 11L is weaker than the 12L. I think you should listen to the Quads, because in my opinion there are not many better speakers for the money.
 

Dayne
Unregistered guest
Have gone with the 21L's. After mulling it over, I figured I wasn't guaranteed a decent set of stands that would do the trick with the 11L/12L's so I may as well pay for a little more music. They look great. Unfortunately my local NAD supplier is sold out of C320BEE's. The current shipment is at customs -- I may only get one at the end of the week. Then a week running in the equipment and I'll get back to you on what I think. Thanks to all who shared their experiences with me.
 

ukquadlover
Unregistered guest
You won't be sorry about going with the 21L's. I'm running a pair hooked up to a Cyrus StraightLine amp and Musical Fidelity & NAD cd players. These speakers are really astounding for the money. Check out something like Lou Reed's Egg Cream from his Set The Twilight Reeling album, crank the volume up and you'd swear the guy was in the room with you.
 

Anonymous
 
Mauimusicman says : "How can a hi-fi speaker NOT like certian music?"

My response to that : That is a very narrow minded comment. If I don't like Haydn, it does not mean I can't appreciate classical music. It may simply mean I have some very human preferences...
 

mauimusicman
Unregistered guest
Annonymous.....you mis-read what I wrote. I said "How can a speaker, not you.....a speaker NOT like certian music? Your free to love or hate any music. But your speakers? What if you happen to LOVE classical but your speakers hate it? See my point? When a speaker is particular about amplification or type of music played thru it, that speaker most certianly has major phase issues. This is not uncommon. Nor is it cost dependant. Wilson speakers costing more than most people's homes have the problem. It's easy to find bad speakers. Not so easy to find remarkable speakers.
 

Silver Member
Username: Stone

West CoastUSA

Post Number: 113
Registered: Dec-03
Dayne you made the right call going with the Quad's. They will be great for music. I agree Quad makes a beautiful speaker.
 

Dayne
Unregistered guest
Right, got the NAD C 320BEE and am running the Quad 21L's in. Loving what I'm hearing. Will post again once I've had the chance to put them throught their paces.
 

OnimushaLord
Unregistered guest
If your dealer has the NAD C352 in stock, try auditioning that at home, this is clearly a notch up for not many bucks more and beats the Rotel RA-02/Marantz PM7200(though I prefer the solid chrome fascia of the 7200 much more)/Cambridge Azur 640A for sound. The C320BEE is comparable to the Rotel RA-01 and is a better bang for buck, but the sound of the C352 just seems a step beyond this entry level SS amp, natural mids with deep bass and smooth integration, the musicality of the C320BEE is also retained IMO. You do know that the BEEs are 50w pc whereas the 352s are 80w pc, not like I'm saying the BEEs can't drive 88dB floorstanders at 6ohms well(they can more than easily handle that load with no qualms I'm sure) but more quality power translates into better dynamics and of course the ability to play louder with less distortion ya! ;)
Also, the issue with the CT version has long been rectified, now all units it seems made for public purchase are indeed the "CT" version which stands for "Colour Titanium" although the the actual unit can come in battle grey(original) or titanium shade(N/A in North America). If you happen to get the battle grey, get those with the black power on button(the old discontinued stock has the classical green button, and I'm not referring to the older C350 mind you) ;)
Try it, if you don't dig them, just return them to the dealer for a refund. Anyhow, the NADC320BEE is one impressive st amp for the $$.

Cheers!
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