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Has Yamaha blown it again?

 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 719
Registered: Dec-03
I just read the review of the new Yamaha RX-V750 from AudioEnz in the review section and the reviewer states that the 750 does not pass a signal to the sub in "pure direct" mode. This has me wondering how the pure direct mode will function in the new 1500 and 2500. If it's the same as the 750 then Yamaha has indeed blown it and there is no logical reason for them to replace the 1400 and 2400 except to jack up the prices on the 2500 by $100. Direct or pure direct modes should pass a signal to the sub in 2 channel mode. Even stereo mode should do this. Why can't Yamaha figure this out? Just when I thought they were getting their act together they pull this.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 834
Registered: Feb-04
Another disturbing thing that I learned about Yamaha, is that atleast the RX-Vx50 models do digitalize all analog inputs with a 48kHz ADC when 'Straight' -mode is selected. I wonder why are they doing that. Is 'Pure direct' different?
 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 720
Registered: Dec-03
Landroval,
As you obviously know Yamaha does things their own way and it has lead, at least for a old Yamaha fan of their 1970's gear, to receivers of poor sound quality when compared to the older stuff and also when compared to their current competion. I was encouraged by the sonic improvement of the 2400 and was hoping that they finally figured out the need for the sub output to be active in all modes like my Elite and most others but I guess not. The point you mention about the DA conversion is typical of their attitude and sort of ties into their plethera of gimmicky, useless DSP modes. This is not to say that they do not have worthy traits and as I said I do like the sound of the 2400 when paired with very mellow speakers like Paradigm but they are just so damn frustrating in their insistance on being "unique" instead of using common sense.
 

Silver Member
Username: Bleustar

Pensacola, Florida

Post Number: 160
Registered: Jul-04
Why wouldn't Yamaha include an active sub in pure direct mode? The stereo signal from the two main speakers would not be compromised if the sub was connected or not connected right?

The receiver would simply pass the signal to the sub/out which would be picked up by the subs frequency range. In other words, the sub would only enhance the frequency range, not take away from the signal sent to the mains.

Is this right?

Exactly what part of the two channel signal would be sent to the sub/out?
 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 727
Registered: Dec-03
I e-mailed this sub in direct mode question to Yamaha and they sent me the reply that in pure direct the sub is "inactive by design to achieve the highest quality sound but you can choose straight, stereo or 7 channel modes". Well in my book this is not acceptable but I guess I would have to hear this receiver in "straight" mode to make up my mind for sure. Again another example of Yamaha doing something their own way and about as illogical as their stupid fixed crossover [at 90] in their previous models. I had hoped they had fixed this flaw but I guess that was too much to expect from them.
 

Silver Member
Username: Bleustar

Pensacola, Florida

Post Number: 165
Registered: Jul-04
I wonder if this is true for the ZX-9 Flagship too. Anyone know if the pure direct mode has the signal sent to the sub. I still don't get how sending a signal to the sub-out (which may not even be used) would compromise the overall sound. What is the difference in "pure direct" and "straight"? I wonder what part of the signal goes to the sub in "straight" mode.

That does make about as much sense as the fixed 90Hz crossover. Leave it to Yamaha.
 

Anonymos
Unregistered guest
Isn't the whole point of pure direct to bypass any processing including bass management routing signals to the sub?
 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 784
Registered: Dec-03
That's not what I want anyway. I want my receiver to send it's signal straight through without being altered by any tone or processing circuitry while keeping the sub active. My Elite does this in "direct" mode. Maybe this is what Yamaha does in "straight" mode and if so that's great but so far they have not ever had an active sub out in any type of direct mode. I hope straight" is what I'm refering to and maybe someone who has the new 2500 will give an answer to this. You would think Yamaha would figure this out as it was the one common complaint I read about in many reviews of the 2400 but if you know Yamaha you understand they more than any other manufacturer does things their own way.
At least their receivers in the mid priced area aren't so darn bright anymore. Major step forward.
 

Anonymous
 
On a Yamaha I beleive that straight does what you are looking for
 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 787
Registered: Dec-03
I hope you are right and any owners of the 2500 please chime in.
 

New member
Username: Bobby_t

Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-04
o.k. I have a screen name now, was posting as anonymous. I just checked on my Yamaha. Direct kills all processing including bass management. Straight just kills bass and treble settings but still routes bass to the sub. This should be the same on all Yamahas regardless of model. Hope this helps.
 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 793
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks for the info Bobby. That should be ok then and better than stereo mode for 2 channel listening.
 

New member
Username: Bobby_t

Post Number: 3
Registered: Nov-04
I use an elite DV 45a with my Yamaha. Noticing your screen name I thought you might appreciate it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 799
Registered: Dec-03
I also have the dv45a and it's a really great midpriced player. Hope you like yours as much as I like mine.
 

New member
Username: Bobby_t

Post Number: 4
Registered: Nov-04
I love mine
 

Chris in CA
Unregistered guest
Hi guys,

I'm new here. Been searching the net for receiver recommendations. Anyway, I was leaning towards the Yamaha (RX-V750) until I read these posts. Just moved into a new house and am setting up my home theater from scratch. The room is 12' x 27' and will be using a front projection TV (120")

My question is: what receiver do you guys suggest I get? My budget is $500 to $600. Am thinking 100W/ch will be enough for me. Leaning towards Paradigm (recommended) System 6 speaker system.

TIA
 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 876
Registered: Dec-03
If you go with Paradigm's [wonderful speakers] then I would look at the Yamaha 1500. You can get it for under $600 at several mail order or on line sites as you can see at the beginning of the receiver section. There is not a thing wrong with that combination now that Yamaha has gotten their act together and eliminated their brightness problem.
 

Chris in CA
Unregistered guest
Thanks for the reply elitefan!

Since I posted, I've been looking at a Harman Kardon/Polk combination. The HK looks great and hopefully sound just as good. I'm picky with the aesthetics of the system since it will be in plain view. Originally wanted satellite/bookshelf speakers but am now leaning towards the floor standing ones since they're only about 8" wide.

Debating between the AVR430 and the AVR630 ($130 difference + 10W/ch). Will have a powered sub with the system and will be mostly watching movies. Music will be played only while having friends over for cocktails; ears won't be too sharp after a few drinks ;-)

Decided to go with Polks as opposed to Paradigm due to financial reasons. Haven't priced the Paradigms yet but the fact that I can't find an online retailer mean they will most likely be pricey. Since I'm not really an audiophile as much as I'm a videophile, I've decided to go with an ok set of speakers. Will check out the Paradigms at local stereo stores just to do my homework but I'm almost sure they'll cost significantly more than the Polks.

I'm glad I found this site. It's really interesting to read what you guys say/write.

Oh, so my question is: What do you guys think of that combination? Polk RTi8 (+ Polk ctr, sub, surr spkrs) and HK AVR430 (630?)

Thanks again
 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 878
Registered: Dec-03
I think it's a good combination and this gives you two different systems to choose from. I think you will find the Paradigm's and Polk's to be priced very close and if you are now going with a floorstander look at this Paradigm combination
Mains- Monitor 7
Center cc370[or 270 if you want to save a bit]
Surrounds- Titans or Atoms
Sub- PS1200, or PS1000 or even the PDR subs.
The Titan and Atom make fine surround speakers and will save you a few hundred off the ADP surrounds. The salesman might give you some grief but the beauty of Paradigm is that they make so many models in the Performance and Monitor series and they work very well together.
You don't say what other Polk's you are considering besides the RTi8 exactly so it's a bit hard to tell what the prices might be but I think you'll be surprised. I like the Polk's and with the H/K will make a fine system. If you decide to look at other receivers for Polk keep in mind Marantz and Elite. Both go very well with Polk. The RTi8 and a Elite 54 would sound very sweet together I think.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Kano

Post Number: 91
Registered: Oct-04
I own that system, HK430, Rti8, Csi3, Fxi3 with the PSW404. Great system, but Paradigm's monitor series was definitely on my short list along with the Energy Connoisseur line.

I love the sound from the silk dome tweeters and I got a great deal on the system at Future Shop (Best Buy).

The Polk subs use Hi-Roll Foam surrounds, which kinda turns me off, but the sound is great. If you can't find a great deal on one I'd recommend Hsu or SVS.

Between the 430 and 630, the only difference is the 10W per channel, but the 65W of the 430 is a true ratings with all channels fully driven. I have a 15x20 living room and I haven't had it higher than -5dB and that's with my hair blowing back and ears bleeding (j/k)
 

Chris in CA
Unregistered guest
Kano,

We might end up with the same system! :-) I'm also planning on getting the RTi3's & CSi3's. Except I'll probably go with the PSW12 sub. Still shopping though. Am in the middle of renovating the media/family room; also similar to your room size: 15x27. I'm totally leaning towards the 430, though I'm waiting to see how much the AVR435 will come out to be.

My projector arrived and I've been playing with it but I can't wait to watch it on a real screen (been projecting it against wall: 12 ft wide image :-) Now, more than ever, I want big, clear sound.

Thanks for your input, I now feel confident to go with the 430's and save a few dollars.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Kano

Post Number: 100
Registered: Oct-04
The PSW12 is part of Polk's monitor line. Outputs 100W RMS (no distorion). I'm sure it can provide the rumble for home theatre, but really I cannot stress how much you will value a good subwoofer once you become accustomed to your system. The PSW404 delivers twice the power and it could still be louder. (low frequencies eat up a LOT of amplifier power, subs can sometimes be driven by 10,000 watts!) I'd recommend at least 200 Watts RMS (continuous power).

The Polk subs are great for movies, but have a bit of a problem with music. It will have no problems changing frequencies, but will not end the note on time, there is always a half second sound release at the end of the final note in a bass sequence, although hardly noticable in 90% of music, and preferable for rap and hip-hop, it still annoys me a bit.

I'd recommend not getting the PSW12, even for less than $200. The PSW303/404 are better choices, but I wouldn't pay more than $350 for either of those.

Sounds like the 430 will suit your needs perfectly though, it sure does mine and is a great match with the Polks.
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