Confused, need box help please
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Bronze Member Username: AoooPost Number: 95 Registered: Sep-05 | Hi, so my sub is finally arriving tomorrow its a Rainbow 10" Hammer : (note the * on the bottom of the page it's a DVC) http://car.rainbow-audio.de/products/technical.php?lan=2&pro=2&lin=18 This is how it looks http://car.rainbow-audio.de/products/details.php?lan=2&pro=2&lin=18&art=231390 It will be fitted in a VW Golf 2002 I like a smooth deep bass not "boomy" What box should I go for, and what size? Thanks a lot in advance |
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Bronze Member Username: AoooPost Number: 96 Registered: Sep-05 | buy what type of box I mean sealed or ported? |
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Silver Member Username: ThumperRichmond, VA U.S.A Post Number: 131 Registered: Apr-05 | ported will give you a "smoother" bass, even though thats not the technical term for it. A Sealed enclosure will give you a more accurate bass. I would go ported for you, but that all depends on how you like your bass. There are disadvantages and advantages of both types of enclosures. http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=146 Read both sections and then make your choice. |
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Bronze Member Username: AoooPost Number: 97 Registered: Sep-05 | Hmmmm, got me more confused  |
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Bronze Member Username: AoooPost Number: 98 Registered: Sep-05 | Hmmmm, got me more confused |
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Gold Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana USA Post Number: 1402 Registered: Mar-04 | Sealed boxs will be "punchy" and have a good frequency range...it will be that "hitting" bass. Ported boxes will usually be louder (~3dB) and have bass that can get really low (if tuned low). It will have the gut wrenching "slam" style bass. ported boxes are usually larger than sealed. |
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Bronze Member Username: AoooPost Number: 99 Registered: Sep-05 | would ported deliver a smother bass? "hitting" & "slam" both sound like the same definition to me lol I am generally aiming for better sq and originally wanted to go for sealed; I had a post on this sub before (just when I ordered it) and got suggestions that sealed is not necessarily better for sq and that small ported designs are smoother and have better sq. |
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Bronze Member Username: AoooPost Number: 100 Registered: Sep-05 | Nothing more... Muddy, any1? |
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Silver Member Username: ThumperRichmond, VA U.S.A Post Number: 141 Registered: Apr-05 | think of rap beats, and then think about OLD metallica drum beats. Drum beats are more "punchy" and "quick." Rap beats are "smoother" What Kind of Music do you listen to most the time? |
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New member Username: Perro_del_malSan diego, CA Us Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-05 | obcon box gz-318-10 |
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Silver Member Username: AoooPost Number: 101 Registered: Sep-05 | mainly rock, classic rock but not nesesaraly hard. For sure more into defined drum beats. I like a deeper bass but accurate, thought that sealed is the way to go till I read somewhere that it is a wring concept that sealed deliver better sound quality and I wanted to get more input and knowledge. Will a ported box never be as accurate as a sealed box? will in not deliver a good drum line? will this affect only fast drum beats? |
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Silver Member Username: AoooPost Number: 102 Registered: Sep-05 | Ice? |
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Silver Member Username: AoooPost Number: 104 Registered: Sep-05 | mainly rock, classic rock but not nesesaraly hard. For sure more into defined drum beats. I like a deeper bass but accurate, thought that sealed is the way to go till I read somewhere that it is a wring concept that sealed deliver better sound quality and I wanted to get more input and knowledge. Will a ported box never be as accurate as a sealed box? will in not deliver a good drum line? will this affect only fast drum beats? Any body? |
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Bronze Member Username: Nutty91rsBloomington, Indiana USA Post Number: 50 Registered: Oct-05 | I have always had better luck on speedy drums with a vented enclosure, in my experience they also seem to pick up the bass guitar strings while still providing a decent response for the louder drum kicks (very transient). Sealed boxes are supposed to be better for SQ because they roll off as the car starts to pick up volume because of it's shape. If your head unit has decent equalization I would go with the ported enclosure tuned low then if you run into alot of cabin gains tone the bass down. In my experience alot of newer, smaller cars don't experience cabin gain like the older mid sized and full sized cars. |
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Silver Member Username: RedskinLondonEngland Post Number: 196 Registered: Dec-03 | " In my experience alot of newer, smaller cars don't experience cabin gain like the older mid sized and full sized cars." Please explain why as I'm interested as to why the age of a car can change the laws of physiscs. |
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Bronze Member Username: Nutty91rsBloomington, Indiana USA Post Number: 58 Registered: Oct-05 | It's not that they don't experience it, they just don't experience it as much because of the way they're vented. Smaller cars also begin to show cabin gain at a higher frequency and it seems to not be as severe from there down. This is from personal experience installing subs in cars like Bonnevilles, and Pontiac Grand Prix, then into cars like Honda Accords and Civics. I worded the above post to sound as if you would experience no cabin gain, that's not what I was trying to say. |
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Bronze Member Username: Nutty91rsBloomington, Indiana USA Post Number: 60 Registered: Oct-05 | Now can you explain to me why you feel the need to be a smart @ss Redskin? |
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New member Username: SuphahighflyPost Number: 5 Registered: Oct-05 | being that it is going into a VW Golf you might want to go with a sealed just for the size difference. That or a small ported box. |
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Silver Member Username: RedskinLondonEngland Post Number: 202 Registered: Dec-03 | "Now can you explain to me why you feel the need to be a smart @ss Redskin?" If being a smart @ss is questioning others points of view then I'm a smart @ss. If people can't explain or defend their coments/advice what point is there in posting? Otherwise all we get is a bunch of uninformed opinions and marketing hype repeated as fact. "It's not that they don't experience it, they just don't experience it as much because of the way they're vented" Are we talking boxes or cars here? "Smaller cars also begin to show cabin gain at a higher frequency and it seems to not be as severe from there down" Cabin gain is a constant rise of 12db per octave from the vehicles Fs down. Sealed boxes are supposedly better for SQ as they drop 12db per octave from Fb so when summed together with cabin gain you get a "flat" frequency response. |
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Silver Member Username: Chaunb3400Huntsville, Alabama U.S. Post Number: 926 Registered: Jul-05 | Brian its ok he's from london |
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Silver Member Username: RedskinLondonEngland Post Number: 203 Registered: Dec-03 | "Brian its ok he's from london" Meaning what exactly? Oh Yeah but your from Alabama. |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1360 Registered: May-05 | ha! |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1361 Registered: May-05 | here's a bit more for your confusion http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_5_2/cmilleressayporting.html |
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Bronze Member Username: Nutty91rsBloomington, Indiana USA Post Number: 64 Registered: Oct-05 | *sigh* I guess I got told. To answer your question the automobiles themselves are vented (all of the Honda's I've seen from 86 up have HUGE fresh air vents in the trunk I can show you a pic if you want) and they're smaller/lower roof lines etc. The "constant 12db rise" is a statistical average of what cabin gain does, it's a math equation and doesn't account for cancelation vehicle size etc. wich is what I'm talking about here. What I do know is he has a VW Golf a small square car and it's my opinion that with 1 10in woofer he'll be happier with a vented enclosure, but thanks for the critique in all honesty I did misword my first post. |
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Silver Member Username: RedskinLondonEngland Post Number: 204 Registered: Dec-03 | "sigh" I didn't realise I was telling anybody anything.I have yet to see a car that doesn't have a fresh air exit from the cabin. The whole point about cabin gain is it is directly related to size. I agree theory and real life vary but in general the predictions mimic real life closely enough. "What I do know is he has a VW Golf a small square car and it's my opinion that with 1 10in woofer he'll be happier with a vented enclosure" Couldn't agree more. Although that has more to do with the fact that most people see a sealed box as to low tech. |
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Bronze Member Username: Nutty91rsBloomington, Indiana USA Post Number: 66 Registered: Oct-05 | I'de like to know what he ultimatly went with, Gal what kind of box did you end up building? |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 473 Registered: Apr-05 | Gal, Consider this; Rainbow 10" Hammer 231390 Thiel Small Parameters (Rainbow website) Fs=35 Hz Qms=4 Qes=.45 Vas=30 Liters / 1.059 cubic foot Sd=326 cm sq Re=4 Ohms Driver Displacement=3 Liters / .106 cubic foot Here are some alignments for your sub. I am including a sealed, ported, and an X-bass ported enclosure specifications. Hope this will help you decide what type you want. Each enclosure has its own benefits. Perhaps you are concerned what it may sound like in comparison. Hopefully this info will help you. I am aware that my numbers are different from what the manufacturer recommends. I use BassBox Pro6 and am confident that it is accurate. It has been compared to other programs at the lab that cost 10 times more, and it is accurate indeed. Sealed = Red VB=13.56 Liters / .479 cubic foot F3=68.68 Hz Ported = Yellow VB=27.74 Liters / .98 cubic foot FB=33.22 Hz F3=36.56 Hz DV=2" LV=7.135" X-bass (ported, engineered for extra bass) VB=34.03 Liters / 1.2 cubic foot FB=31.13 Hz F3=33.33 Hz DV=2" LV=6.291" All enclosures have the driver displacement included already.  |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 474 Registered: Apr-05 | The sealed box has been designed to be without stuffing. This actually allows the sub to go down 10 Hz more without stuffing. On the ported, and X-bass ported enclosures; pad the inner walls with 5/8" or ¾" thick carpet padding. Do not use stuffing on any of these boxes for it will alter the design. IMHO the sealed box is out of the question. The ported boxes are small enough that you could fit 2 of them in your VW, and even have room for shopping. The only difference between the ported and the X-bass ported is .22 cubic foot, which is like 1/8" bigger on all sides. It's almost not a factor. The X-bass doesn't even improve that much on this particular driver. We are talking about 3Hz. The big difference is between any of the ported boxes and the sealed. You will definitely hear a difference between 33 Hz and 69 Hz. It is over one octave. Personally I would go X-bass just because it goes lower, and it isn't that much bigger. Just my $.02. |
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Bronze Member Username: Nutty91rsBloomington, Indiana USA Post Number: 82 Registered: Oct-05 | Mix any chance I can get you to run a box plot for a trilogy Bostwick HDPro 8 ohm 10's? I have the thieles if you need them. |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 476 Registered: Apr-05 | I would like to comment in support of Brian Tuckers statement; "In my experience alot of newer, smaller cars don't experience cabin gain like the older mid sized and full sized cars." I believe this to be true. Reason is that newer cars nowadays are smaller, and have alot of sound deadening upholstery, padding, etc.. We shouldnt jack this thread, but if anyone wants, we could ellaborate further in a cabin gain thread. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/car-audio/172848.html |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 477 Registered: Apr-05 | ya, just start a new thread and post the following data: Fs= Qms= Qes= Qts= Vas= Sd= Re= Include the make, model, size, year(if applicable), and voice coil configuration. |
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