Zapco vs. jl
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Bronze Member Username: Scab12886Post Number: 86 Registered: Oct-04 | would everyone agree that a zapco ref350 2-channel amp is better than a jl 300/2? or would i be wrong in saying that? any input would be great, thanks. |
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Silver Member Username: Taylor17Kopperl, Texas Post Number: 495 Registered: Jan-05 | I don't know personally, but the way everyone talks about Zapco, I'm guessing Zapco is better. Personally, I think Jl is overpriced any way. |
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Silver Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 778 Registered: Dec-04 | You wouldnt be able to tell the difference between the two if thats what you want to know. They are both great amps. Also the Reference series of zapco isnt their top of the line either so its a close one. |
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Bronze Member Username: Scab12886Post Number: 87 Registered: Oct-04 | thanks guys. anybody else got anything? |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3251 Registered: May-04 | Like James said, as far as SQ, at normal levels you won't hear a difference. Only way you could hear a difference would be if you used the Symbilink balanced lines, and the difference you'd notice was less noise from electrical components. As far as build quality, that goes to the Zapco. |
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Bronze Member Username: Scab12886Post Number: 88 Registered: Oct-04 | thanks guys. so for the extra $50 or so i might go with the zapco, even if the difference isnt that big. and what are these symbilink balanced lines your talking about?? are those a lot more money or something, i know nothing about those. |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 1553 Registered: Nov-04 | There may not be much difference in sound quality that you can "hear", but the intangibles are what separates Zapco from JL. If you go to Zapco's website, they will list the type of parts they use in their amps, JL does not. This is why I rate JL almost at the same level as Alpine/Eclipse/PPI (current models). |
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Silver Member Username: Erik123456Arlington, Tx Post Number: 405 Registered: Aug-04 | i like eclipse better than alpine and PPI, but the old PPI amps were tight I just bought a zapco am p (cough cough iforce) for 80 bucks brand new though to run some components hopefully iforce (the lowest line) isnt actually made by some generic company then just branded w zapco  |
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Bronze Member Username: Scab12886Post Number: 89 Registered: Oct-04 | thanks guys. i was actually looking at an eclipse amp too, the PA4212 for the MB quart premium components. how would that eclipse rate against the zapco? zapco still a little better?? |
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Silver Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 829 Registered: Dec-04 | running subs you would prob never be able to tell what amp is running them between the Zapco,Eclips, or JL but when running highs zapco is clearly the dominant amp, then JL and Eclipse are very close but they are both much better then Alpine and PPI's current amps. Maybe PPI pc or pcx. but thats my opinion. |
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Bronze Member Username: Scab12886Post Number: 90 Registered: Oct-04 | thanks james. yeah this amp is for the components. i think i still may get a zapco 500/1 for the sub. |
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Anonymous | I've never used Zapco amps, but I've never heard anyone say Zapco is overpriced(expensive maybe, but never overpriced). JL on the other hand I've heard a lot of overpriced comments. Erik, AFAIK I-Force is Zapco designed, but made overseas. Take it for what it's worth. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3262 Registered: May-04 | "If you go to Zapco's website, they will list the type of parts they use in their amps, JL does not" JL does list parts, they also give pictures (be they small ones) of the technology they use in the amps. The only useful information Zapco gives you are the fact that they use 1% resistors, capacitors, and massive ground planes, and that their output devices (bipolar). The problem with that is that it doesn't say jack sh*t about the amp design. All amps use resistors, capacitors, and ground planes, and for $1700, you expect to get equipment that is built to a demanding tolerance. Bipolar transistors are the key thing that seperates these amps from your typical car audio amp, they offer more linear operation than a MOSFET, but are also more unstable, so a good DESIGN is needed to implement them. If an electrical engineer had never heard of Zapco and simply saw that list of parts, it wouldn't tell him anything nor would it make him believe that it was a superior amplifier. The parts list gives you no idea of the output pair arrangement, whether they are a Darlington or a Complementary pair. It's something you won't find on the specs sheet, but is key to the performance and stability of the amp, and each arrangement has it's own quirks to work out, so it requires other good ideas to be implemented. Bias servo design, output stage Zobel networks, the output current design, and many other factors again won't be shown on a website. No amplifier company is just going to hand you a schematic of their amp design, that would be stupid. It's a good "parts list", but still gives you no idea the engineering of the amplifier besides that it uses good materials. Good materials matter, but you can fry good materials in a couple of seconds with a bad engineering effort. I'm not saying Zapco's amps are bad or inferiorly designed, this is just an example, their amps are fantastic. My point is that you can't choose amps based on a parts list or solely by specifications listed. "This is why I rate JL almost at the same level as Alpine/Eclipse/PPI (current models)." You need to come up with a better way of ranking amps. If you haven't used them, JL's amps are superior to all those amps you listed. Alpine is so-so, nothing special, Eclipse makes good amps, PPI's current stuff just sucks a$$ compared to the older stuff. |
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Bronze Member Username: Scab12886Post Number: 91 Registered: Oct-04 | ok thanks jon. now i read all that and should i still go with the zapco? or get the JL? which do you think would better power the mb quart premium components? |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3265 Registered: May-04 | I'd take the Zapco, I was just mainly pointing out what makes an amp good or bad. Both are great amps. |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 1557 Registered: Nov-04 | I never said pick an amp based on parts list nor specs alone. All of the amps I mentioned I have personally purchased and tested including low ends like Jensens and Pyraimd. The point I was trying to make was that Zapco do list some of the parts used in their amps. Sony/Pyramid/Boss/Aline/Eclipse/MTX/Audiobahn and many others don't bother with them. They also choose not to list any detailed specs on their products. So it's harder to judge and compare. What I liked about Zapco/Arc Audio/Orion HCCA G4 were that, they didn't hide numbers nor use creative advertizing to highlight their best features. I may not explain everything in detail when I post things sometimes but that's cause I'm either doing something while writing or in a hurry. Just like when I said comparing Zapco and JL amps were like apples and oranges. You right away assumed that I was only referring to brand name. Zapco was class ab and JL was class D. It's all how you take/view it. Sure if I had more time and posted lengthy explainations, then maybe there would be less confusion, but I can't always control how much time I can afford to spend on here. I never said JL amps were bad, must overrated cause of their price. I ranked them almost in the same level as Alpine/Eclipse only cause they all seem to charge a lot for their amps. You seem to think PPI's PC series are s$it, but have you even tested one? They are not PPI's current series. You'd be surprised how well they will perform. Everytime I mentioned PPIs, I always posted their model/series, like PC or PCX. I listed PC first cause they were better in quality and peformance than PCX. But for the money, PCX is still a good amp. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3271 Registered: May-04 | "Just like when I said comparing Zapco and JL amps were like apples and oranges. You right away assumed that I was only referring to brand name. Zapco was class ab and JL was class D" https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/car-audio/122683.html Your first post stated: "Man you're comparing apples and oranges. Zapco use high quality parts to make their amps." With a cut and dry statement like that, it was pretty easy to "assume" you were ranking on brand name. You made it an issue of parts, not design or amplifier class. Your Class D and AB rant didn't come on until after I posted. Class D and AB differ in design, not quality of parts used. "This is why I rate JL almost at the same level as Alpine/Eclipse/PPI (current models)." Again, you didn't refer to the PC or the PCX, or any specific model for that matter, you simple stated "current models", which would be the DCX series. And yes, I've tested them, I was considering them for a cheap system for my sister. As far as them being sh*t, I do feel they are sh*t compared to the older models, which is what I stated above. None of their amps can come close to an Art series. |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 1564 Registered: Nov-04 | Like I said before, sometimes I don't go in detail with my posts. I assume people here are all educated and have some experience with electronics. As for "Man you're comparing apples and oranges" statement, had I spent more time and explained why it was apples and oranges in comparison, I'm positive it would've cleared the issue. I was in a hurry so I summarized. Sometimes lack of time can cause you to shorten answers too much. "you didn't refer to the PC or the PCX, or any specific model", I mention the Art series, PC and PCX series in many of my posts. I figured everyone WAS familiar to them by now. When you said you've tested the PPI series, were you talking about DCX or PC? DCX's quality is below their old standards. This is why I never mention it. I don't disagree with you about PPI's current series being sub standard, but since Art series are no longer made, I list PC or PCX series for people to test/purchase. It is not "cheap" in quality at all. In fact they make excellent mid priced amp for powering components. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3274 Registered: May-04 | I had tested the DCX. I don't think they are cheap, they just aren't up to snuff with the older stuff. I'd put them in the RF, MTX category. |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 1571 Registered: Nov-04 | Okay, it makes sense now. I thought you were referring to PC or PCX series being cheap. Those amp come with made in USA label. |
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Bronze Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 63 Registered: Feb-05 | I have a PCX 2200. One of my favorite amps that ive had. 200x2 rms into 4 ohms/ 400x2 rms into 2 ohms/ or 800x1 rms into 4 ohms bridged. Very nice way to power componants or one powerfull subwoofer or 2 subs |
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