Like

Perhaps I ask too many questions, but what the hell, how about this setup?

 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 34
Registered: Dec-04
Ok, I talked to another car stereo guy today and he explains this to me. The speakers I am interested in (W7, IDMax, Brahma's, X.X.X, H2), all 10"s, are huge excursion speakers, they are best used for low Lil John Base, R&B. For me, since I likey the fast and upbeat Techno, long excursion is not the key. Instead of paying ~$800 for 2 of these subs (give or take $100) I can easily get 4 subs for the same price. the 4 subs will have more surface area but lower excursion. They should sound louder however and be quicker and tighter, the kind of base I want. For example, get 4 JL Audio 10w3 and a 1200W amp(such as Concept's 1200W amp, Phoenix Gold Xenon 1200.1, or Orion 1200D). Since I never planned on using my trunk for anything else, I dont mind using the extra space, and it will cost a little cheaper since I dont need a friggin huge a$$ amplifier (~3000W).

Now this makes sense to me (the shorter excursion means tighter base, so increase the number of speakers to make up for the short excursion). But I have minimal experience in the car audio world, so can someone please confirm/deny this, thanx a lot! As soon as I figure out which subs/amp to get I'll stop posting so much here, jeeze I write a lot ;)

Mathmatics section:

2 JL Audio 10W7's; Total Surface Area = 2*pi*5^2 = 50*pi in^2
Excursion = .9 in
Total air moved by 2 JL Audio 10W7's = 45*pi in^3

4 JL Audio 10W3's; SA = 4*pi*5^2 = 100*pi
Excursion = .55
Total air moved by 2 10W3's = 55*pi in^3

So 4 JL Audio 10w3's move more air then 2 W7's, are cheaper then W7's, and I can use a cheaper amp with 4 W3's. The choice is clear (is it? Please someone confirm/deny this for me!)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 36
Registered: Dec-04
Come come now, this cant be THAT bad of an idea the no one replies? I know someones got someting to say about it! Yea!
 

nnnnick b.
Unregistered guest
WTF?
 

nnnnick b.
Unregistered guest
Or buy a pair of 10" or 12" X.X.X.. Less space, and go ported.
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 763
Registered: Nov-04
Hey Casey, in a perfect world, your mathmatic formula would work. However, since the movement of air is not determined solely by the number of cones, the formula won't be accurate.
Take 2 12" subs. Let's say one of them has a sensitivity of 80db with 80oz magnet, and another one has 92db with 320oz magnet. Even though they're same sized, 2nd one will sound almost 2x louder.
Your friend is partly right. He's only looking at one of the characteristics. Speaker's magnet weight, voice coil's size, and cone diameter play a significant role in sound quality and air movement.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 39
Registered: Dec-04
Ok, so the 4 subs might be/most likely are not as LOUD as 2 w7's, but would those 4 create a tighter, more ACCURATE bass sound? I listened to a 10w7 with 500/1 going to it in a car stereo store the other day (JL audio sealed enclosure). To me, I liked it, it was loud, but the base wasnt tight. It didnt hit as hard/fast as I was expecting. Am I making sense? Hmmm, well, the car audio guy I lastly talked to has this same set up in two other customers cars (4 JL 10w3's and a concept 1200.1 amp). They work at the same place I do (I work at a company where pop ~10,000 civilians, ~#### military) so the audio guy is gonna call them up and ask if one of them would show off the system in question. I will post again my thoughts on it, and my final solution as to what I am going to get. And pics of the install too :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 768
Registered: Nov-04
Hey Casey, it all depends on the sub itself. The smaller subs will travel faster at lower settings vs much larger subs. It's just physics, however, if you increase the power on larger subs, it will respond almost as fast as the smaller one. I've tested this with 18" and 12" subs.
Before you make a major purchase, visit a car audio store and listen to 18" sub with 320oz magnet (not double or triple stacked) and compare with 12". You should feel a huge difference in power. It's hard to describe the feeling, you'll just have to experience it. And please do stay away from cheap 18" subs. They're just all show and no action.
Remember, if you're going to test 12" subs with 50W rms, then for 18" try giving it 60 - 70W rms, to make up for the stiffness in size.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 41
Registered: Dec-04
Ok, loudness aside, I can hear a difference when I listen to a 12 inch Sub against a 10 inch sub with one of my Happy Hardcore CD's (really fast tecno for those who dont know). The 12 isnt as precise with the base as the 10. And even the 10W7 wasnt as precise as I wanted it. Well, honestly, the onyl way to tell is for me to listen to them in cars. I am working on listening to different setups to find what I like.
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 778
Registered: Nov-04
Hey Casey, have you tried a different brand in 12" or larger? Sometimes a different manufacturer might use a technology that's more advanced than a competitor.
Yes in theory, smaller subs will be able to move faster but since technology never stays the same, you never know.
I do admit at equal volume setting, 12" will react faster, but with my 18", I offset the mass difference by increasing the power.
 

Silver Member
Username: Oleg

Santa Monica, CA USA

Post Number: 124
Registered: Nov-04
Casey, do not forget that you can tune the LP frequency on your amp, which can compensate for a lot of what you want. Also, you can set the bass boost frequency!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 42
Registered: Dec-04
This is all excellent information and I will take it into account when shopping around and demoing subs. I have been checking these forums and others for the past few eeks, I think I am ready to go out and listen to subs and actually have some knowledge about what I am listening to/for. Thanx a lot guys! And mabye gals, who knows, mabye Oleg Ni is a MILF, ya never can tell on the ol internet
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 6173
Registered: Dec-03
firstly, magnet weight means little by itself, since magnet material and magnetic field strength also matter, far more than weight or mass alone. You need the magnet structure to be matched to the motor and design of the speaker, so bigger isn't always better. You can actually over-damp a driver by having too large of a magnet, which happens often in cheap flashy speakers that use overly large magnets to impress the uneducated.

That aside, combined xcursion and surface area together play a large factor in overall SPL, as will efficiency and sensitivity, box design, power, etc.
If those subs didn't sound very tight, it can be caused by many factors including a lack of sufficient power for the drivers in question, lousy source material, or a poorly designed or set up system in general.

There are just too many factors to consider to make any one simple answer to what you're looking at.

My two 12" RE X.X.X. subs hit very hard, and sound great regardless of volume level, but that's because I have ~1280 watts of class AB amplification going to each sub, using a balanced 15 volt DIN signal path and going through both 1/3 octave equalization, and a preamp that allows me to set boost and frequency at the dash if I want a certain range of bass to be accented or suppressed.

Quality components, and exceptional system design matter more than anything. If the system isn't laid out well, nothing will make up for that.
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 782
Registered: Nov-04
Hey, when I talk about magnets, I'm not talking about the cheap subs that come with double or triple stacked ones. They're mostly for shows.
The subs I'm referring to are the high quality ones with sensitivity of 100db or higher. They are designed with heavy magnets along with voice coil. If you look at a manufacturer, they offer various types/models of speakers at different price levels. The ones near the high end, they're constructed with heavy magnets along with frame and voice coils. Sure magnet weight isn't "the" solution, but in a speaker construction, it plays a significant role. A weak magnet won't have enough strength to push/pull the cone required to reproduce quality sound. You can take 2 identical subs with different magnet strength and apply sound. I can guarantee you that the one with stronger magnet, will move the cone more accurately.
I find too many people just go with a brand name and the size without a thought on magnets and assume just cause it's brand x, it has to be good.
You'd be surprised how many speakers are out there that can out perform some of the popular brands.
Hey Glasswolf and others, if my posts sounded like magnet was "the" answer to all bass, it wasn't intended. However the reason why I brought up the magnet was to give people something else to think about, besides brand name and size. I haven't seen anyone talk about it in any posts when it comes to speakers.
Magnet strength/size may not be the answer to all prayers, but they do play a role when it comes to quality sound reproduction.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 44
Registered: Dec-04
Ok, if I DONT use a balanced 15 volt DIN signal path and going through both 1/3 octave equalization, and a preamp that allows me to set boost and frequency at the dash, then which of these two options would be BEST for me:

2 10" Adire Brahma MK II with a Hifonics 1800BD
or
4 JL Audio 10w3's with an Orion 1200D

Both set ups will use a sealed box. The JL's should be just as loud, but should be tighter with the given amps.

The set ups I listened to were at a couple stores, fairly small rooms (I know they will sound diff in a car), each time it was always a 500/1 feeding a single 10w7 in a JL box, or a 1000/1 for a JL 12w7 in a JL box.

Finally, I know JL is a brand name, but come on, they DO make quality products. And if I can score each 10w3 for less than $200 a piece, its a good deal. 2 adire's will run ~$700, 4 JL's I can get for ~$700
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 6182
Registered: Dec-03
the brahmas are better subs IMO.
the W3 line is a lower end sub, and not the best JL has by far. If you want to compare a Brahma with something from JL, use the W6v2 or W7.
compare specs on them and you'll see why.

Isaac, I was merely pointing out that magnet strength and magnet weight are mutually exclusive points.
a lighter magnet can be made with superior materials and offer a stronger magnetic field and thus be a stronger magnet than a cheap one made of heavier but inferior materials.
That's why I was trying to point out that companies can mislead you by touting super heavy magnets in ounces.. but still not mean much in reality. Just something to keep in mind.

 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 784
Registered: Nov-04
Hey Casey, if that Adire is Brahma 10 MKII model, then I'd go with that. It's rated 1600W rms. Couple of those will give you plenty of powerful bass.
JL 10W3's will give you good bass response but it's only 250W rms. Unless I'm looking at the wrong model, 250W rms is way underpowered compared to Adire. Orion 1200D is almost 2x the power of JL subs. Almost too strong for JL.
 

Silver Member
Username: Koz1031

Monticello, In United states

Post Number: 313
Registered: Jul-04
All of this is great, but now you guys bring up the ? which magnets are better, should u stay away from stacked magnets, or is all this dependant on the speaker.
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 785
Registered: Nov-04
Stay away from stacked magnets. They're mostly for shows. My sub has one magnet but it's 320oz. It performs better than the stacked ones. If you do a search on google, you'll see a research done by the speaker engineer on speaker design and magnets. Too many people ignore them.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 46
Registered: Dec-04
you guys are missing whats going on here, the Adires are better by far, but they are long excursion sub. A shorter excursion sub should have more accurate base. The Adire will be better at playing lower tones, but I never listen to lower tones. The adires will be louder, so I will get more JL's. More subs = more loudness. Now the JL's are spec'd at 300W RMS, so if I get 4 of them and 1 1200W amp, then each sub will see 300W (300x4=1200). Is any of this wrong? I am not going into competition. I am only listening to my kind of tecno, which hardly ever has the low long drawn out bass.
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 786
Registered: Nov-04
Hey Casey, you seem to know what you want, so go for it. However, I only see one mistake. Your JL subs are 250W - 300W rms. The amp is 1200W rms. You will surely blow the subs. Unlike amp's power, speaker powers do not add up. What I mean by that is, you may have 4 subs that's 300W each, but as far as the amp's concern, it's only 300W, not 1200W total. So if you connect the subs, it will put out 1200W to each sub and burn them out.
Think carefully.
 

Silver Member
Username: Oleg

Santa Monica, CA USA

Post Number: 126
Registered: Nov-04
Casey, dog...I'm not a milf...get the sh*t right.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 47
Registered: Dec-04
Aaaaahhhhhh hahahaha! I was wondering how long that would take before I got a reply to that sh!t ooohhh lord I am laughin my a$$ off right now!
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 6199
Registered: Dec-03
" A shorter excursion sub should have more accurate base. The Adire will be better at playing lower tones, but I never listen to lower tones."

incorrect.
as long as the Brahma has sufficient motor control, which it does by far, it'll be just as quick and accurate as a shorter throw sub at any volume, with the added benefit of higher SPL/more displacement.
Remember, how low the sub plays is a function of the enclosure, and the Fs of the sub. Not it's Xmax.
How low it plays is a frequency issue.
Cycles per second.
How loud it gets is a matter of amplitude, or how far the driver travels at the same number of cycles per second to displace more air.

Your theory on faster subs having shorter throws is incorrect.

As for stacked magnets, the triple X has a double-stacked magnet, and I have no issue with the design. You really can't judge a speaker solely based on one spec or design feature usually. You need to consider the overall design and approach.

Also be aware that Techno, and plenty of non hiphop music has plenty of low bass. What you think you hear, and what is really there in audio information, or on an RTA, can be very different things.
Groups like Dune, Solar Twins, and Crystal Method all have great low basslines in their music.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Munkyjojo

Winamac, Indiana

Post Number: 60
Registered: Mar-04
ok.. now i'm confused. so if i have two subs hooked up to a 1000 watt amp, and the subs are about 600 watt a piece (rms mind you), then it would blow my subs?
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 788
Registered: Nov-04
Yes Jojomunky, if you max the volume, the amp will supply 1000W to each sub. You have to remember, subs do not divide amp's output power.
This is probably why some people keep on blowing their subs. Just case you have 4 250W rms subs, doesn't mean you can get 1000W amp and max it. The sub's "total" power is 1000W, but they're still 250W individually and that's all they can take.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Munkyjojo

Winamac, Indiana

Post Number: 62
Registered: Mar-04
this is only on a mono amp..right? if i have 4 channel amp then the amps power would be divided by four into the four channels..right?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 49
Registered: Dec-04
Glasswolf: Thank you for addressing the issue of shorter throw subs :-) Makes sense now

Isaac: Please clarify how that works? I always thought that if I have 2 subs, wired in parallel, and I have a 1000W source, then each sub sees 1000W untill the other day when I heard that each sub will only see 500W at maxed volume etc... So which is it and why?
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 795
Registered: Nov-04
Hey Casey, your first one is correct. A 1000W amp will supply 1000W to each subs. Some people get mixed up with 1000W 2 channel amps I think. That one will supply 500W x2 meaning 500W to each channel.
Just remember, speaker powers do not add up nor do they divide amp's output power.
Therefore 4 250W subs are still 250W rms each, not 1000W.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 50
Registered: Dec-04
Dude, I spoke to an RE tech person at their head quarters in Las Vegas. I told him that I wanted to purchase 2 X.X.X 10"s. He asked me what amp I plan on running to them, I told him an Orion 1200D cause I can get one at an excellent price in great condition, warranty included. Anywayz, he told me that each speaker will see only 600W RMS and that wont be enough to move them. I said "Even if they are wired in parallel?" And the guy says this (and this is a direct qoute) "No matter how you wire them the subs will only see half of whats given to them if you use 1 amp,one channel because there are two subs"

It blew my mind! Now why would an RE tech say that? He cant be talking out of his a$$, cause if he is then I am definetly going with Adire over RE.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 51
Registered: Dec-04
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/car-audio/111221.html
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 798
Registered: Nov-04
Whoa, I've studied electronics before and it's news to me. A speaker is not suppose to cut the amp's output power in half. That totally don't make any sense, even in theory.
I can understand if you exceed the max ohm for the amp, then yes you will lose power. If you look at the amp's power ratings, it'll always give you less power as the ohms go up in value.
So how can a sub totaling same ohm total cut amp's power in half?? I'd like to see where that guy went to school.
FYI, I'm not the only one who experimented with this theory. You can take any sub that's 250W rms, and connect them in parallel/series and supply 500W. The subs will start breaking down after 300W.
Unless RE subs are magically made and defy all logics and physics, the guy's wrong.
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 800
Registered: Nov-04
Hey Casey, you almost made me doubt myself so I checked with a guy who has BS in Electronics. He does not agree with the RE guy. Unless RE guy has PHD in Electroincs, I'll go with BS guy.
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 801
Registered: Nov-04
Ok I'm going to get more opinions on this. It is rather odd and confusing I must say.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 52
Registered: Dec-04
Thank you! I as freaking out about it cause I have studied eletric circuits and it made NO SENSE to me. But then again he was supposedly an "expert" on the subject. Someone else call up RE and ask whoever answers this ponderous question.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 53
Registered: Dec-04
Ok, I just spoke to two more car stereo stores. The told me the same thing as before. For example:

4 Subs, each has 4 DVC, each is wired down to 2 Ohms per sub.

They are set up in a parallel series combination; 2 subs are in series, which is in parallel with the other two subs. The other two subs are in series alsoThis is what BOTH car stero places came up with: if the amp is a TRUE 1200W RMS amp, then EACH sub will see 300W RMS at full power. The WILL NEVER see 1200W. One sub by itself will see 1200W RMS, 2 subs would see 600W RMS, 3 would see 400W RMS, and 4 will see 300W RMS.

I am at work and cant create a pen and paper circuit, but I will and try to work it out myself. Although, I need to know the voltage coming out of the 1200W Amp, anyone know the Voltage out of an Orion 1200D?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 54
Registered: Dec-04
I managed to whip this up real quick, forgive the childish look of it.
Upload
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 803
Registered: Nov-04
Okay, I found my mathematical formula for the circuit. In case where 2 subs are connected in parallel, the voltage does not get halved, only current does because each sub is connected to the same source.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 55
Registered: Dec-04
ok, so how many watts does each sub see? I know that each sub sees the same current and voltage, but what are these numbers? I just asked a co-worker who has a BS in EE from Univ. Wash, and she says we really need to know the voltage from the amp, but yea, each sub will see 300W RMS
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 6215
Registered: Dec-03
ok this is a matter of needing to get all the data I think.

The first problem is never use a term like "a thousand watt amp"
never rate amplifier power without the qualifiers of load, number of channels, and ideally in a perfect world, frequency range and supplied voltage at what percentage of THD measured using the FCC standatds... but anyway, state amp power like this:

1000 watts RMS x 1 (channel) @ 2 ohms.
see NOW we know exactly what we're dealing with.
Based on this, you need two know two things:
1: subwoofer configureation (number of subs, coils per sub, and ohms per coil)
2: Ohm's Law.

With these factors KNOWN, we have all we need to know how much power each sub will get.

With the Orion amp, if it puts out 1200 watts RMS x 1 @ 2 ohms, and you're using a pair of 10" RE subs, 4 ohms each, then yes each sub will get 600 wRMS.

The load will always affect the amount of power each sub gets, as will the number of subs, channels, etc.. You just need to have all of the information before ya get all wound up about what will or won't work.

That Orion amp would power a single RE triple X 12" sub very well.
It'd struggle with a pair of 10".
Those triple X subs love power.
My 12" get 1280wRMS each from two bridged, dedicated Orion 2250SX "Beast" amps.
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 804
Registered: Nov-04
Okay Casey, according to my calculation, 300W rms to each sub since voltage doesn't drop except current. Just to double check the theory, I ran couple of speakers rated 100W.
With resistors, the voltage and current behaved as predicted. However, with speakers, it's not matter of numbers. I applied around 100W to one speaker and then connected 2nd speaker in parallel. You would think each speaker should be getting half the power right? Well I'll you one thing, the speakers behaved like they was about to burst. It didn't matter that I added 2nd pair in parallel.
So I'd be surprised if your 300W speakers didn't behave similarly.
From now on, I'll advice people that in THEORY, speakers connected in parallel will divide amp's power.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 6222
Registered: Dec-03
in parallel you halved the load which doubled the current draw, and thus doubled the amplifier's total power output. you would up giving each speaker about 100 watts, Isaac.

When you have one speaker getting 100 watts, then you add a second speaker, thus doubling the power, and doubling the speakers, you increase SPL by +3dB for the added power, and another +3dB for the added driver displacement. That's a considerable increase in SPL, really.

This is why it's important to understand Ohm's Law.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 6223
Registered: Dec-03
PS, you are technically still dividing (current) between the two subs. You've just doubled the amplifier's output at the same time, so it's now a 200 watt amp, and you're sending 100 watts to each speaker.
This may be part of the confusion as well.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 56
Registered: Dec-04
Glasswolf, once again, has saved the day *APPLAUSE* thank you. For a side note, I did mean one channel at 2 Ohms (in the pic I posted I meant to put them all at 2 Ohms, I friggin spaced it though cause it was real quick)). I will be sure to give the givens next time. So yes, each of the 4 subs will see their rated power of 300W RMS. I get to hear a car with 4 10" IDQ's tomorrow, YEA!

Now, back to quick, tight, accurate subs, wouldnt some Orion H2's be a better choice over the X.X.X and Adire Brahma's? I was told that the Orions use a seperate magnet of some sort that actually makes the sub be quicker then others in its range, is this true? I will try to get more info as to how they are built to elaborate better
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 808
Registered: Nov-04
Ok I see where my brain fell asleep. See what happens when you try to think on Friday night without beer :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Carguy

Post Number: 809
Registered: Nov-04
I think I'm going to to listen to some speaker kicking metal music to wake up... :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Oleg

Santa Monica, CA USA

Post Number: 130
Registered: Nov-04
I think Glass explained it pretty well. To sum it all up, I think you guys were talking about different configurations. The more subs connected in parallel, the lower the resistance is over the entire circuit, thus making the amp produce more current because the same potential (voltage) is always available. This is overstated though. I'm not sure about the H2 subs, but a guy I know had 2 older 12" orion subs and they sounded really good.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 6269
Registered: Dec-03
I like the H2 subs. I like the triple X RE subs as well.
I went with the RE, after looking at teh H2s myself, but you should really try to see both or hear them before deciding for yourself.
A lot of it will come down to your ears, and the enclosure, power, and vehicle.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 57
Registered: Dec-04
Ok, I listened to 4 IDQ 10" subs in a Ford Extented cab. The subs were in a sealed box, behind the back seat. A one ch. 1000W RMS amp was used (subs were wired down to a 4 ohm stable system, amp was runnin at 4 Ohms) We put in some Lil John, and it hit low, I liked it. We put in some fast Techno, and it hit FAST and HARD. I REALLY liked it. Now I can get a good deal from this guy, and it came out to being almost $1500 cheaper then the qoute for the JL W7's + amp and cheaper then the qoute for RE X.X.X's. I think that I am gonna go with them. I am gonna make a new post about all the componants of the system I plan on buying soon
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 58
Registered: Dec-04
What I mean was I am buying EVERYTHING from this guy, and the qoute for EVERYTHING was a lot lower. He's hookin me up with some good deals.
 

Gold Member
Username: Glasswolf

NorthWest, Michigan USA

Post Number: 6294
Registered: Dec-03
great.
very good subs you chose.
I almost went with IDMAX subs in an AP box myself but changed my mind. I went with the RE subs for their excursion, and the fact I'm using 1280 watts per sub.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Karthalin

Tacoma, WA USA

Post Number: 62
Registered: Dec-04
I have Glasswolfs approval! Yes! I did good then!
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