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Music Hall MMF-5?

 

Unregistered guest
Am about to splurge on a new TT. I checked Audioreview - people seem to like the MMF-5. Glass platter, good cardtridge, decent tonearm etc. I'm also looking at older TT's. Luxmans, Duals, etc. (Needless to say, the less I spend the better...) My vinyl is mostly rock, with some original press jazz (Ellington, Benny Goodman, Basie) and some classical.

If anyone has a recommendation for a good, solid TT that won't kill me dollar-wise, please let me know.

Thanks much!
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawk

Highlands Ranch, CO USA

Post Number: 556
Registered: Dec-03
Marc:

I am aware of three excellent turntables, all which complete with a nice cartridge, and all available under $400. Interestingly enough, I understand all are sourced from the Czech Republic.

In no particular order:

1. NAD 533. Comes with a very nice Goldring cartridge (a higher level cartridge than the Goldring cartridge with the Music Hall, I understand). List is $499, but DMC Electronics is offering it for $349 (www.dmc-electronics.com). A superb buy.

2. Music Hall 2.1. Also comes with a Goldring cartridge. The MMF-5 is a very fine table, but if budget concerns make you want to spend less, the MMF-2.1 is just about as good, with very little separating it from the MMF-5 as the platter material is the major difference (2.1 uses alloy instead of glass) and many people do not hear any real difference in the glass platter over alloy. Available from www.needledoctor.com for $314.00.

3. Pro-Ject 1.2. Another very nice turntable, complete with a Sumiko Oyster cartridge. Saw it available from www.saturdayaudio.com for $319.00, I believe. An excellent turntable.

Each of these table is a superb buy and well worthy of a very nice system. Each is very similar to the others. You should call Saturday Audio Exchange (www.saturdayaudio.com) and ask their opinion of all three tables. SA is a great shop with very knowledgeable salepeople, and they carry all three tables, so they can better explain the differences to you.

Good luck!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1006
Registered: Dec-03
Hawk,

NAD 533 sourced in Czech Republic....?

I am not complaining, just interested!

BTW DVD-Audio has brought me back to vinyl. The CD will go down in history as a temporary aberration, imho, proving that you can fool most of the poeple, all of the time. For a while...
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawk

Highlands Ranch, CO USA

Post Number: 557
Registered: Dec-03
John:

Yes, that is what I was told about a year ago by someone who is a nutty as I am about this stuff. It certainly fits their business model of outsourcing production where they can obtain high quality and relative low cost, so the claim made sense to me, but I have not confirmed the claim (not real high on my list of things to do, I'm afraid). I would love to hear from someone who has one who can tell me what it says on the box (is it really from the Czech Republic?). I have confirmed that both the Music Hall and the Pro-ject are Czech sourced, so I recognize they have quite an industry there.

I moved into my current home about 18 months ago and still have about 50 boxes to clean out in my garage. Still looking for my last two boxes (out of four) of vinyl--man, I hope that wasn't lost in the move! I have my Thorens working and it sounds very sweet.
 

Unregistered guest
Ah, John A and Hawk, 2 of the gentlemen I was hoping to hear from. Thanks very much. While I don't mind plunking down 3-something for a used MMF-5 off Audiogon, I'm glad to know it's not necessary, and will contact the referred shop.

Thanks so much.

If you would, I posted things in Receiver (2 Channel 4 me) and in Speaker (Hawk....Speaker Review) threads and would very much value your input. Between you, Maui (are GMA's really that good?), Rick B (can't wait for his review of said speakers), you'll save me a ton of time in pointing me in the right direction of an excellent, reasonably-priced system.

Cannot thank you enough.

Kindest Regards...
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1025
Registered: Dec-03
Marc,

That is very kind. Really. I'll take look at your other posts and see if I can say anything.

Hawk,

Next time I pass my NAD dealer I'll maybe go in and take a look. Personally, I think it is wonderful that economies emerging from fifty years of repression can get going again by doing things they were always good at. Welcome to the EU, Czech Rep (from May 01). Do you guys over there know that Prague is further West than Vienna...?!

For me, if it is true, then a good ol' UK Rega Planar 2, now made for NAD in Czech Republic, is progress, and would be an added incentive for getting one. But that's me!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Black_math

Post Number: 85
Registered: Dec-03
I thought the 533 was, basically, a Rega. has this changed? Does Rega produce their TT's in Czech Republic. It looks like it still has a Rega arm.

The thing I don't like about the Project/Music Hall TT's is the Project arm with that cheap counterweight. It may be me, but I hate to see that thing swinging back and forth.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1039
Registered: Dec-03
Ben,

I've had a look at a 533 turntable. It is a Rega Planar 2 in all but name. I own a Rega Planar 3, an awesome turntable, and it has run perfectly for 25 years; the best thing I ever bought. The main difference I can see between the 533 and my Planar 3 is that the platen on the 533 is made of Medium Density Fibreboard while the platen on the Planar 3 is pure glass.

I've got the 533 manual from the NAD "Support" pages as a pdf. Nothing, anywhere, says where it is made.

Marc,

Hawk is always way ahead of me on comparisons; I only know about the other current turntables from things I read. But at the price Hawk mentions, I would be amazed if you could do better than the 533.

Hawk,

Hang on to those LPs! I am interested in buying vinyl LPs again, and have just seen some of the prices. A mint condition Sgt. Pepper is offered for $500, I think, by a dealer in Copenhagen. Even better, keep 'em, and listen to 'em. They are probably irreplaceble! Ben put me on to Sundazed records, www.sundazed.com, some time ago on another thread. There are some great new pressings from various independent companies; better quality, heavier vinyl, than the stuff the industry was producting when it was on its last legs, or even before.
 

Unregistered guest
Thanks everyone. Very much appreciate the valuable input.

As I'm seeking an amp/integrated, or receiver as well, I posted in the receiver section, thread "2 Channel 4 Me" (5/13). I would very much welcome your input on that as well. (Maui sure talks up that Panasonic - who'd have thought?) Europa's and Ohm being reasonable as they are, I figure I can spend $1000 or so on amplification and be doing well - and I'm sure that's not even necessary (granted it would be a hoot to get some $3000 amp off Audiogon for $800 for sound as well as sake!)

Again thanks. With all your help, I should be able to skip years of frusteration and dollars finding an excellent system. :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawk

Highlands Ranch, CO USA

Post Number: 567
Registered: Dec-03
Marc C:

For amplification, there is one bargain currently available that is the best two channel sound you can hope to get. Last time I looked at the website for Saturday Audio Exchange (www.saturdayaudio.com), was offering the NAD C270 amp (120 wpc with loads of headroom) for $379. Then, go to the website for Spearit Sound (http://www.spearitsound.com/nad/nadspec.htm) where they have the matching NAD C160 pre-amp for $349. This would be killer two channel sound for about half price (I think the list is $699 each or $1398).

My alternatives are 1) a Rotel RX-1050 receiver (I have one), which is a somewhat leaner sounding 100 wpc, but is very smooth and detailed sound; and 2) an NAD C372 integrated amp--which would have an overall sound very similar to the separates. The Rotel's MSRP is $799, but you should be able to find one for about $100-150 off. The NAD integrated can usually be obtained for about 20% off of its $699 MSRP (see the dealers above or contact Kief's-www.kiefs.com).

I personally am not impressed by the Panasonic suggested by mauimusicman. Panasonic will get some buzz as they spend a lot of money on marketing when they bring out new products, but then the buzz dies down as people who have heard the product stop anticipating and start yawning. I tend to shy away from digital amps (it is just marketing as all it means is that they have IC outputs rather than transistors) no matter the brand (Sony, H/K, Panasonic). Their IC outputs do not have the headroom to really be particularly dynamic sounding IMO, and they have much more distortion. I find the sound to be very two dimensional as there is no discernable depth to the soundstage. Can't drive a 4 ohm load, either.

John:

I found my box of my favorite LPs earlier today--as I type I am listening to one of my favorites, the L.A. Jazz Choir on the Mobile Fidelity label (MFSL1-096). This is, without question, one of the greatest albums ever. Their languid redition of "It Had To Be You" may be my favorite song of all time. This is an album that was never issued on CD, and it is unlikely that it will ever be re-mixed for DVD-A or SACD. Believe me, I will never give up these LPs! BTW, I have the Sgt. Pepper album on Mobile Fidelity--never knew it was so valuable (as I haven't used my turntable in 10 years, most of my good albums are in really good shape--I doubt most have been played more than twice).

The box I found today is probably worth a lot of money as many are Telarcs, Delos and Mobile Fidelity label records--I even have a couple of duplicates so the duplicates have never had their seal broken. This is going to be fun!

Cheers!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1104
Registered: Dec-03
Hawk,

Great!

I am having the LP vs CD debate all over again. For example, with Gregory, on another thread.

For me, one thing new is an external basis for comparison, DVD-A.

Also, I can finally play LPs at realistic listening levels, in a house I have lived in for 11 years. I was witness to a discussion, here, on feedback. Jan Vigne said something like "try playing with the dust cover open, or off". Even though it is contrary to the Rega recommendations, with my turntable location, it makes all the difference in the world. Wish I'd know that before! I pass it on.
 

Unregistered guest
Hawk,

Really, thank you so much. You just basically wrapped it all up for me in one post!

So far, what I have is an Nad (you) or possibly vintage Luxman (I just have to check one of those out), GMA Europas (Maui - barring Rick B still insists Ohm's to be superior), an NAD T533 DVD-A player (John A), Music Hall 2.1 (might check out a vintage Thorens or Dual - not sure), and some cheap yet decent cables and interconnects.

Of the NAD's, I may go with the integrated, if for no other reason, for one less cable and set of interconnects.

Uhh...know a good tuner? *laughter*

I may do some swaps, personal taste being what it is, and I am curious about some vintage equipment. But basically I'm going to get my setup and leave it at that in what will be a failed attempt to avoid Upgrade-itis. (I see what you guys go through...)

But my initial goal has been to get a great system for a similar or insubstantial amount more than I would pay for garbage at Circuit City. As I've said, I'm not an audiophile but a music lover. And with your guys' help, no doubt I'll be acheiving that goal in absolute spades.

And then I will never...ever...leave my house.

:-)
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1123
Registered: Dec-03
Marc,

That's just great to read. As I said, you are already doing fine. An integrated receiver is not really a compromise these days (I used to think stereo receivers were in the old days). Also, you will surely want 5.1 one day.

Yes, music is what it is all about.

I will leave the last word to you and Hawk.

Except.... Have you decided on cables, yet.......? (smiley thing)

And.... Please let us know what you find!
 

Unregistered guest
Hello John A,

Thank you. If one is lucky enough to run into some gentlemen who are in the know, one can sit back, listen, and benefit. And I'm verrrry glad I've been too broke to act on things yet because I've only recently stumbled on this forum - and it's been the most even-handed and sensible yet.

Funny you should ask - no, haven't tackled the tuner (again, I've heard some of those Luxmans were good), cables, and interconnects issues yet. As a matter of fact, I was sort of hoping for a bit of input from you guys on those as well, but only if you're willing. I don't like to impose, and it's not like you haven't given me enough pearls already... :-)

I guess I should abide by decorum and start new threads...but I'm afraid you 2 won't see them.
 

Unregistered guest
P.S. I've sworn I will never, ever, do 2 things - go to HT or buy a subwoofer. I refuse. I will resist HT, instead opting for a 2-channel playing straight truth right at me. As for subs - I refuse to buy a speaker for my speakers. No. I'm old fashioned - I won't do it (and if Maui is correct, I won't need to).

*blink*

Then again, according to Hawk those T753's are pretty good...lol. (Kidding.)
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1143
Registered: Dec-03
Marc,

I signed the stereo-only pledge years ago, and would never have allowed an active sub across my threshold. About a year ago, my family wanted HT. I had to restrain them from buying cr*p, and incorporated my stereo in to a much better system, from both point spof view. There are an awful lot of new things to get right, and it has taken me this long to figure them out. But I have now come out the other side, a better man, with a totally renewed interest in listening to music. (I now listen to more LPs, of course - only DVD-A equals LP, for me)

For the battle of the dinosaurs, take a look at

Teaching an old dog new tricks...

Plunging into Multi-channel

...and threads in the same category.

There is an entire "cables" category here. It is an education, but about people, not audio.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 1145
Registered: Dec-03
Marc,

I think it was Sir Thomas Beecham who said "In life, try everything at least once. Everything, that is, except inc_st and folk-dancing".

I don't think he knew about HT, they didn't have it.

That's three things, then.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Black_math

Post Number: 89
Registered: Dec-03
Marc,

Luxman used to make an excellent tuner. I suggest looking on ebay for one. You may also find an ADCOM, Magnum Dynalab, Rotel, NAD, or Marantz for a good price. Those should all work as well.
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawk

Highlands Ranch, CO USA

Post Number: 587
Registered: Dec-03
Marc:

Tuners--you can do almost anything here. I have friends who have used the tuner in their old receiver as the tuner for their new system, with the receiver's input set to tuner and the receiver connected to the seperate pre-amp using the tape outputs to the tuner input on their pre-amp.

If you want a tuner, frankly, the NAD 422 is as good as you can get for the money--I think it is under $200, and it is very senstitive. Check it out at Saturday Audio. I also think the Cambridge Audio T500 is a good buy, albeit a bit more expensive. Audio Advisor has them in either black or silver for $279 (audioadvisor.com). Finally, the Needle Doctor has the Teac T-1D for $199, and it is a pretty good unit.

Good luck!
 

Silver Member
Username: Disco_stan

Minnesota

Post Number: 144
Registered: Dec-03
To all,
I just got a new Acoustic Sounds magazine and was looking at turntables. The ones that appealed to me and fit my budget were were the Music Hall tables. For someone who is interested in buying a turntable would you recommend the MMF 2.1 for $300?

And also, has anyone heard of the Peter Gabirel-US LP?
 

Unregistered guest
Matt,

I asked the same question, see above in this thread. :-)

Marc C
 

Silver Member
Username: Disco_stan

Minnesota

Post Number: 145
Registered: Dec-03
Marc C,

Well...this would be my first purchase of a turntable for a developing system, so I was woundering would this be the right direction to go. And I didn't make it clear in my previous post :-) Like what you said I don't want to buy anyhting that is crap.
 

Silver Member
Username: Black_math

Post Number: 107
Registered: Dec-03
It should be a quality TT and comes with a decent cartridge.
 

Unregistered guest
Matt,

Yes, it's like I do not need a top-dog TT, just not anything that would be trash. Just solid. Most seem to be behind the MMF 2.1. Also see what Hawk said. (These guys really know their stuff on this forum - almost scary. Yet their advice is very well-tempered, very sound.)

I think I might have to go with a used MMF-5, just because, well, (sheepish) i love the way that glass platter looks! lol!

So shoot me...
 

wh
Unregistered guest
Gents:
Your info regarding the NAD 533 v Pro-Ject 1.2 c MMF 2.1 was very helpful. Was hoping you might comment on what you see in the MMF 5's range. I am interested in one price-point above the ~$300-400 range and thought the MMF 5 was a good point of comparision. Any thoughts very much appreciated. Regards,
Will H
 

New member
Username: Sampro

Glen Ridge, New Jersey USA

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-05
Put a $57 Ortofon OM5E in that Music Hall MMF-5 and it will really sing! Blows the Goldrings and others right out of the water! Checkout this link ...http://www.epinions.com/content_4293435524
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe_c

Oakwood, Ga

Post Number: 107
Registered: Mar-05
or splurge a little more for the super om 20 and it will shine I have one in a sumiko project 1.2 and love it pieces, very warm tone.
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