Archive through March 29, 2009
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9179 Registered: Feb-05 | I apologize for posting this in yet another spot, however I would like further discussion of the Diamond 9.1 to continue here or on the comparison thread and let the Beta 20 thread move back toward discussion of that speaker. I also wanted anyone looking up the Wharfedale to find this thread. So which is better to my ears...the Infinity Beta 20, Wharfedale Diamond 9.1, Epos ELS3, or the Paradigm Atom Monitor v6. These are all very nice budget speakers, each with it's own strengths and weaknesses. In order of preference: 1)Wharfedale Diamond 9.1. The best balanced speaker of the lot with by far the most refined high end. Bass is ample for the size of low end driver...being front ported helps for placement as well. It is the second biggest sounding speaker of the bunch after the Beta 20. Full, rich sound with the best imaging and the most 3 dimensional soundstage of the speakers on survery here. Higly recommended! 2)Epos ELS3 - Great little speaker with the second best imaging and a forward yet not aggressive soundstage. Biggest gripe with this speaker is that it sounds it's size. I remember when I put the Diamond 9.1's into the system...my wife said wow what changed, that sounds good and clear even in here...she was in another room but recognized that the sound was now bigger and fuller with the Wharfies. I would have a hard time parting with the ELS3. Both the Wharfedale and the Epos have a wonderful way with instruments. The Epos has a wide open midrange which let's you hear deep into the music however the timbre, though very good, is not as natural and organic as the Wharfie. Both the Beta 20 and the Paradigm have greater drawbacks than the previous two...it really is a draw between these two for the next spot. The Beta 20 is a big full sounding speaker which seems capable of greater volume than any of the other speakers here. The primary drawback of the speaker is that instruments do not sound natural. There is considerable grayness to every sound...a sameness that detracts from the overall experience for me. Imaging is pretty poor compared to the previous speakers. Overall it's a good speaker for $100 or a bit more and does a number of things right. When I had just the Beta 20 and the Epos there was considerable angst as to which would live long term in the office. My wife liked the full sound of the Beta 20 but we both liked the musicality of the Epos...in the end I chose the Epos...until the Wharfies rendered the point moot. The Paradigm Atom sounds bigger than the Epos and not as big as the Beta 20. Better timbral balance than the Beta 20 with less detail than any of the speakers on survery here. Siginificant issue for me is the amount of port noise from this speaker...another big issue is that Paradigm seems to have reduced the amount of detail that this speaker can render to alleviate the possibility of fatigue or brightness that some reported with the v5...they went too far...though this speaker is not as vanilla as the Beta 20 it ain't far behind. It works wonderfully in my wife's system with her NAD C325BEE and when I offered the Beta 20's to her she said no thanks... These results were using my Creek 4330 integrated and modified Rotel RCD 971 cd player. I did try all of the speakers on the big system with very similar results except that this time the Beta 20 and Paradigm did not tie...the Paradigm sounded better to my ears. The Beta 20 just didn't sound good on the Rega gear, very flat and monochromatic. Well that's it. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2402 Registered: Jun-07 | I am really surprised that the little Atoms even stayed in there Art. Now that you have come forward with your true findings, how would you compare those speakers to say the Paradigm Studio 20, Monitor Audio Silver bookshelf or the Totem Rainmakers. Obviously from reading your review, those three speakers should walk all over the Epos,Paradigm and Beta 20's, but what I would like to hear from your experience is where do they fall short. Also, how would the warfies compare? Are they a giant killer? Or just a real damn good speaker for the money? You can put more emphasis on the warfies as this is a thread for them of course. Cheers. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 696 Registered: Jun-08 | Art, Your review sparked my interest to seek out an audition of the 9.1's; however, there doesn't appear to be a dealer in Canada for Wharfedale consumer products. The closest is the distributor for Wharfedale PRO product, which is Erikson Consumer. Erikson Consumer is the manufacturer of my Sinclair Audio monitors but as mentioned before is also the Canadian distributor for Harmon Group products as well as Wharfedale. I emailed my contact at Erikson and they indicated that Wharfedale does not distribute their Diamond product in Canada. So, I'm at a dead end. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 697 Registered: Jun-08 | Hey Nuck, a minute apart. You were a little faster on the keys. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9180 Registered: Feb-05 | Nick...I wouldn't exactly say that Atoms stayed in there. They were significantly drubbed by the Wharfies. They did hang in there with the Beta's though. Are the Diamond 9.1's giant killer....no. Damn near but not quite. The last Studio 20 I owned was the v3 and the tweeter on the 9.1 is very competetive with that on the Studio 20...however you're asking a 5 inch woofer to match a 7 and it just doesn't. Overall listening with the Wharfdales is a convincingly high end experience though, which is saying something. No speaker sounded as smooth with near perfect timbre in the setup with my Rega gear like the Wharfies did. Absolutely beautiful sound. oops dinner time...back in a bit. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2403 Registered: Jun-07 | Awesome Art. George- I guess for you and I its second hand for the Diamonds. CAM? AGON? EBAY? hmmmmmmm. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11813 Registered: Dec-04 | http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/120961-wharfdale_speakersdealers/ |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9181 Registered: Feb-05 | The Rainmakers and the Studio 20's are both at a different level than the speakers I reviewed but I would rather listen for hours to the Studio 20's or the Wharfies than the Totems anytime. Both are easy on the ears. I paid $200 + shipping for the 9.1's...nuff said. I will say more later...damn tired. Seems like everyone in America is out of a job and came in to see me today...lol! Also my daughter is in the hospital fighting for her life from liver failure...and no one can figure out why...she'll be 28 next week and has a 3 year old boy...long day. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9182 Registered: Feb-05 | Nuck...hay buddy drive to PA and pick em up from Mike at STO. Smugglers Blues dude! |
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Bronze Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 27 Registered: Apr-07 | I wish Wharfedale didn't have the problems with the US distributors a couple years back, as I really wanted a pair of 9.1s but the only place I could find them was on Wildwestelectronics.com, who seemed a bit shady to me. I see that their site is back to listing US dealers, so hopefully someone near me will get them at some point as I'd really like to hear them. Thanks for the reviews. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 47 Registered: Jan-09 | Art, Sorry to hear about your daughter. I will pray for her and your family. Now I have to pick up a pair of 9.1's. I used to own a Wharfdale center speaker years ago. Have you heard the 9.2's? I am so impressed with the 20's that I stopped looking at other speakers. Now you have intrigued me and they are affordable. I wonder though if my low end receiver (HK146) can reproduce the sound quality of your equipment. Do you think I will hear the difference between the two with my equipment? I'm using a PC via digital out. I may give STO a call tomorrow and order a pair. I was going to buy a sub but I can hold off. If I like the Wharfies I can sell the Beta's I guess although I do really like them. I wish there was a dealer in the DFW area to go and listen to them but there isn't. |
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Bronze Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 28 Registered: Apr-07 | Indeed, very sorry to hear that. I didn't really read the posts after the review so I missed it the first time, but I hope everything works out for your family. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9184 Registered: Feb-05 | Mordecai, it's always nice to have a couple of pairs to change thngs around with. Who knows you may prefer the 20's. Obviously your AVR will not reveal the same things that my integrateds will..but that doesn't mean that you would not be able to appreciate the difference. Freddie, if you're really interested in the Wharfedale's STO Sound & Vision and Mike are on the level...give em a call. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2405 Registered: Jun-07 | Nuck- That a boy!! Nice CAM work man. Art- My best wishes to your daughter my friend. I hope she has a speedy recovery. "I would rather listen for hours to the Studio 20's or the Wharfies than the Totems anytime" Very interesting. 200 bucks for the warfies is incredible. I love the neutral sound of Paradigm. I still am on the look out hear and there for a pair of Signature's. mmmmmmm. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11821 Registered: Dec-04 | Art, keep everyone well. God bless. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9185 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks guys...she's young, I'm sure she'll be fine. Nuck....dude...5 pair! |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 699 Registered: Jun-08 | Art, let us know how it goes with your daughter. I feel for you, her and your family. Hope she gets well soon. Nuck: 5 pair, is that one pair for me.... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9186 Registered: Feb-05 | I could use an extra....rosenut please! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11830 Registered: Dec-04 | See what shakes out, if the deal is good then distribute at cost locally or whatever. Actually looking for the BIG discount...fell offa truck. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2408 Registered: Jun-07 | Roadkill..the best kind.LOL |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11831 Registered: Dec-04 | Art, that little Rega Arra bit that I posted put the competition right where you were, with the Epos and Wharfies. Looks like your guesses werent too far away from the other good listeners. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 48 Registered: Jan-09 | Did I miss something? Five pairs of what? Still on the fence about the Wharfies. I did speak with Mike at STO today. They have black in stock and the shipped price is around $250. I compared the specs to the Beta's and the 9.1's go to 50Hz and the Beta's go to 40Hz. It looks I would definetly want a sub with them. I'm still curious what the Beta's would sound like with a sub. Would'nt you hear the mid and upper ranges more clearly with the sub handling everything below 80Hz? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11833 Registered: Dec-04 | maybe in a 2.1 Mort, but this was a stereo shootout. As before, I would think that the Wharfs would enjoy a sealed 8" for music. REL? Or DIY Down that low, it would be harder to integrate a sub to the Beta's, I would think. But a sub that covers 30up and fast would be a good point with a 1 octave rolloff from a 4th order XO or higher.It needn't go beyond 80 then. Or |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9188 Registered: Feb-05 | What specs are you looking at Mordecai. The +-3db for the Beta's is 58hz I believe and the +-6db for the Wharfies is 50hz...effectively these speakers have just about the same bass response. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 50 Registered: Jan-09 | I scribbled some numbers so I guess I got it wrong. You are right on. That is impressive considering the Wharfies only have a 5 inch woofer. Do you know what the warranty is? I looked on STO and Wharfdales site and couldn't find it. I'm more inclined to purchase a pair knowing the low frequencies response is close. I really like the bass response of the 20's and I didn't want to give that up for more mid range. If I can get both then it may be worth a listen. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 51 Registered: Jan-09 | Nuck, you are way over my head. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 53 Registered: Jan-09 | Art: Did you biwire the 9.1's? Do you think biwiring speakers makes a real difference? I'm about to buy speaker wire for my 2.0 system and I was considering picking up the Canare 4S11 from BJC. I figure if I don't hear a difference I can double it up and increase the wire gauge. Hey, I'm newbie when it comes to 2.0 audiophile stuff. I've only been a HT guy until recently. I don't know much about what makes a good system. Since I had to take a job outside the house (worked at home the last six years)I don't get to listen as much as I did. But, I am learning from you guys. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9191 Registered: Feb-05 | I did biwire with some inexpensive Tributaries speaker cable. Biwiring does make a difference however Using better cable in a singles wire (including using a length of the better wire to replace the brass jumpers) is better than compromising quality to biwire. The Canare 4S11 is a fine speaker cable and should get you good results. I'm now using van den Hul Snowline speaker cable with Paul Speltz Anti Jumpers and it sounds great. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 56 Registered: Jan-09 | Art - I don't understand what brass jumpers your are talking about. Do you mean the copper links that connect both sets of connectors on the back of the speakers? I thought I needed to remove those if I bi-wire. I don't plan on biwiring my HT speakers. So, are you saying I should use wire jumpers to replace the copper links? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11846 Registered: Dec-04 | Yes Mordecai, replace the jumpers with speaker wire |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 57 Registered: Jan-09 | Cool, I just learned something new. I guess this will improve the sound? Is bi-wiring still better? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2457 Registered: Oct-04 | Bi-Amping is better, you can experiment with bi-wiring, but I remain unconvinced as to it benefits. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2459 Registered: Oct-04 | ...a quick edit & all is well. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1916 Registered: Jun-05 | Nice thread Art!now you understand my love for Wharfedale.Well guys just moved to Denver a few weeks ago,its been hectic,wife just got back from school right after she just got back from Iraq and my daughter had Kawasaki's desease which we thought was Chicken pox luckily we caught in time and she is now fine it was a scary moment,and then as soon as we moved to Denver,our pitbull got loose,the pound got her only to find out that they were illegal in Denver so we lost our baby of 7 years she really kept my head up through my wifes deployments,probably the worst stretch of my life,to top it all of we have a beautiful new home and the Swan F5F turned out to be to big for my dedicated room that was a major blow considering my long walk up the top of the mountain,so i hooked up the maggies,pretty good,but I love pinpoint imaging but all know maggies dont do that,next comes the Beta 20's very impressive,but owning the Classia's put a dampner on that,next comes the Elatx Monitor 3,very nice these are a incredable little speaker only sold thru AudioWaves thru the states,but i promissed them to my my dad so i boxed them up sent them he moneygramed my $200 i really wanted to keep them. Then i went big again with the Swan T-700's na just to big this is a nice speaker,that gives a genorous portion of what the F5's can do but 6 times cheaper.Next up the XL-S,na just to boomy and low on resolution,next up aw...the Epos M12.2 much better timing and rythum are back in my life,but i have never been able to get emotionally lost with M12.2's their midrange while very very good,just doesent have have the density and space that im after their sound is rather compact and small,so now im down to my trusty Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 wow im having a ball,listening like i havent listened in a while,so they make me realize i need a quick solution.So long story short calls a place Goldsound in Denver,he's a old school 2 channel dinosour,my kind of guy,this guy has the most impressive vintage electronics I've seen he has 6 old Fisher tube receiver/inertgratedamps 6!he also carries Rega,Qaud,Parasound,Yamaha,and Wharfedale,long story short I traded him the Infinity Beta 20's and i payed him $75 bucks for a nice pair of brand new in a box silver Diamond 9.1's now my life is back in order i could'ne beleive how much better they were than the 8.1's and they did it with sacrifising what was special with the 8.1's,now the F5's are up for sale and the Opus2 M 2's are nearly in my sights along with Emotiva's XP-1 monoblocks and preamp and their upcoming CDP.The 9.1 puts speakers to shame that costs 1000's they have 1 of the sweatest topends around,that tweeter is special,well thats my story,the 9.1's long live the legend! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9195 Registered: Feb-05 | Lot's to digest there TW. Glad you're back! Sorry for your trevails but to use a cliche what doesn't kill ya....you know the rest. Again, a big welcome back! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1918 Registered: Jun-05 | Thanks Art,so have you tried the 9.1's in your big rig? thats deffinetly where they belong to sound their best.They handily beat up on my M12.2's,I wish i still had the Eltax Monitor III to compare with,truthfuly its not really fair comparing them with speakers in their class,their only under $400 comp is the Epos els3,Usher S-520,Elatx Monitor III,Infinity Beta 20's and they only come moderately close,the Evo2 8&10 and 9.2, 9.4 is their only comp,but thats only at their lower prices at STO,the Evo2 10 at $379 is heavely on my mind at that price its hard not to get them. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1920 Registered: Jun-05 | Funny thing is I've been preaching the Wharfedale gospel on here for years,I remember when Eddie was with the diehard Ascend gang thats starting to rival the crips in members these days,and then he heard the 8.2's ad he finnaly was listening to real music. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2460 Registered: Oct-04 | I don't know why I didn't realize the STO was selling the Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 for $129/pr.? That's a nice price. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 732 Registered: Jan-05 | Like a trip down memory lane.. The 8.1s were my first speakers. Also owned some special edition 9.1s, which were certainly better than the 8.1s. Biwiring I do believe to be sketchy, I think it may work with 3 way designs and some amps but I didnt notice any solid benefitial difference. The last time I biamped it ended up in two amps on fire! As for subwoofers, I would advise to stay away for music. Personally I think they offset the pure balance of stereo music. Very little music goes below 40hz, I find that my speakers with a +-6db 45hz and +-3db at 60hz are sufficient but for those with less punchy speakers, I can understand the desire for one. Specs aren't the only factor on response as we should all know, the entire design of the speakers and type of room will influence it. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9199 Registered: Feb-05 | I have tried the 9.1's for a little while in main system and they were excellent. It's har to unseat the R5's though. There were things that the 9.1's did better than the R5's like timbre and relative scale (one instrument to the other). The 9.1's are pretty extraordinary. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3597 Registered: Sep-04 | Art, I was shocked to read about your daughter. Best wishes for a happy outcome. The Wharfedale 9.1s are good speakers and they punch above their weight. I do find them a little to rich in thmid-bass response but there's no denying they're better than they should be for the price. It's odd but the little 9.0s are quite light in the bass but this makes them ultra-quick so they're very engaging speakers indeed. I think the scale and drama of the 9.1s overshadows the engaging character of the 9.0s but I think I'd prefer 9.0s at home. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 733 Registered: Jan-05 | I agree they are extraordinary. But I found the highs a bit muffled. For me, I think they are a little too warm sounding, whilst I agree they give music an engaging quality, quite quickly do the flaws become apparent! They also sounded completely different in a room with solid floors and walls compared to one which had hollow walls and less solid floors. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9202 Registered: Feb-05 | If the highs were muffled I would check another part of the system because that does not describe the 9.1's that I'm hearing. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9204 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks for the well wishes Frank, I think she'll be fine. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 734 Registered: Jan-05 | Perhaps I just didnt think they were that clear then! They were being driven at the time with a Marantz amplifier though, which may have been the problem. Glad your daughters future is looking up  |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9205 Registered: Feb-05 | I think you hit the nail on the head with the Marantz amp JJ. |
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New member Username: Biz_dancePost Number: 9 Registered: Apr-06 | What budget amp would be a good match Art? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1921 Registered: Jun-05 | Thanks Jarvis and Frank but they are very transparent to the source,which is very unusual for a speaker in this pricerage and even a bit higher.As Frank said they are a bit rich in the midbass but its still very very clear and quick,but the B&W 802d is rich in the midbass to and they cost 14k.Frank your on to something here about the 9.0's im getting 2 pair to go with the 9.1's for my home theater to partner with my brand new Onkyo 606 yep im getting back into home theater,but it will be interresting to hear them and the 8.1's and 9.1's on quality gear.The Epos are going to STO on a trade for the Evo2 10 which will be my reference speaker for a litle while,I hate to give up the Epos M12.2's but time moves on I've never loved ther sound but I've always respected their technical abilities aside from their midbassand and amazing timing they never grabbed me emotionally afte listening to 9.1,the Evo2 10 would likely send the M12.2's on their way anyway the Evo2 10's are gonna be a monster little giant killer for sure. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9212 Registered: Feb-05 | Had some fun today folks. Did another afternoon of listening and comparing.    Some interesting results. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11855 Registered: Dec-04 | Nice pics and quite an aray of goodies Art! Nice tidy room too. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9213 Registered: Feb-05 | The Primus 152 cleaned the Beta 20's clock today folks...for equal bass just pick up a pair of 162's. The Primus 152 is one hell of a speaker...very impressive. Better detail than any of the budget speakers with very natural timbre. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2462 Registered: Oct-04 | Interesting, but not surpised. And vs. the 9.1? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9214 Registered: Feb-05 | Interestingly, though I enjoyed the Wharfies quite a bit I can't say that they're better than the Epos or the Primus 152...just different. The Wharfie is very natural and laid back where the Primus is detailed and forward (though not bright), the ELS3 is about in the middle relative to balance. My wife and I have decided to build a system for her daughter who is moving back from Seattle next week. My wife will give her a nice vintage Kenwood receiver in like new condition and recently refurbed by a friend of mine and I'll give her my Beta 20's. We'll find a source on CL. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2463 Registered: Oct-04 | I have seen the P152 sell at Harman's eBay store for less than $25 a pop. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11860 Registered: Dec-04 | CM, you STILL da man! |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 58 Registered: Jan-09 | Art, You're killing me with these reviews! Hard to believe the P152 bettered the 20's. I should have my 9.1's early next week. I look forward to the comparison. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9215 Registered: Feb-05 | Will you biwire those Wharfies Mordecai? The 152 bettered the 20's in timbre, soundstage 3 dimensionality and imaging. Real big gripe with the Beta is that the instruments are not well separated and timbre is not differentiated enough between them. The Beta's bass definitely had more pop. Bass was the 152's biggest weakness, though it was good and tight and wasn't big...to be expected with the drivers etc. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2465 Registered: Oct-04 | I think the guy that runs the Harman eBay store might be on vacation or something, I've seen their well run dry before, but the Betas are supposed to be done with, so they might be gone for good; time will tell. I've touted the prowess of the P362; Art, you have a pair of P252; when the time is right (and I know right now might not be that time), take them out for a spin & see what you think. I think we're learning you might be partial to a 5" mid/driver Art, that big 6.5" Beta driver doesn't seem to cut it with you. Interestingly, your P252 use those 5" divers, and my P362 use the 6.5" ones, so I guess we're learning what I prefer too. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1922 Registered: Jun-05 | Interresting in Arts comparison I've owned the original Primus 150's I to preffered them over the Beta's for long term listening they nearly matched the Epos els3 for midbass accuracy,I dont know how much the 152's have improved but its pretty hard to think they would beat out the Beta's in the detail department though and deffitely not the els3.They deffintly would'nt beat out the 9.1's in detail,dont let the warmth and scale of the 9.1 make you think they are not more detailed than the rest of the bunch,its just the relaxed way that they do it with tremendous scale to boot they actually breath true life into the recordng somewhat like the Quad Esl and the Maggies,its actually more like a very expensive speaker,I've been at this game for years and I have never heard nothing like them under $600 and in some ways they do things as good as I've heard,im stunned to tell you the truth. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9217 Registered: Feb-05 | Actually I listened to the same music with the 152's and followed them with ELS3's and the Primus 152's were more detailed...but just a hair less musical. Both were more detailed than the 9.1's though I must confess the 9.1's were not biwired. The 9.1 just sounds more coherent...the music fits together very well...all parts of the musical picture are in the right relative scale. I bought some QED Silver Anniversary Biwire cable which should be here in a few days and I'll give it a try. I agree with Tawaun that the detail on the 9.1 sneaks up on you because it has such a smooth presentation. Christopher the driver size isn't the issue for me with the Beta 20. I love the Paradigm Studio 20 and it has a 7 inch mid bass driver. I only bought the 252's over the 362's due to money and nothing else...I would love to have had the 362's in my HT. With the Beta 20's I believe that the crossover must be the problem. They just don't match the other speakers here for timbral color and transparency. Since I believe them to have very competent drivers that leaves the cabinet and crossover...I believe both play a part in the reservations I have about the speaker. However that's just a guess and nothing more. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 59 Registered: Jan-09 | Chris - I read the review of the P360 on Stereophile. How close is the P362 to the P360? They are on sale right now at Fry's for $258 a pair. I may pick up a pair of them as well. I know comparing towers to bookshelfs isn't an apples to appled comparison but I am trying to find the right speaker for me and the room I'm in. How do you like the P362's for music? I doubt I will use them for movies unless I decide to get rid of my Acculines and replace them with a Primus setup. I clearly don't have the refined ear and the expensive equipment that many of you have. To be honest, I don't understand the meaning of some the descriptions used by professional reviewer and you guys. It will be interesting to see how the 9.1's perform in light of all the praise this thread has given them. I really like the sound of the 20's and I'm really listening for the different instruments and sound separation. It may be that the music I like works well on these speakers. I still have a hankering for a little more bass. It looks like the low frequency of the P362's may be the answer without giving up the mid's and not adding a sub. Which would you pick between the 20's, 9.1's and the 362's? Art, feel free to chime in cause I know you have listened to all probably and you have or had had the P262's. As for biwiring, it seems there as much opinion claiming it makes no difference as opinion that it does. I am going to use wire to be replace the jumpers and may go ahead and buy some 4 lead wire and give it a try with the 9.1's. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9220 Registered: Feb-05 | I really like my Primus HT. I'm not sure how long I'd want to listen to them for music. The 362's are essentially the same as the 360 with a face lift. If you are looking for a fab HT speaker either the 252 or the 362 work well. I do have the 252, 152 and the big center (forget the number)...my wife and I love it. We will be getting the matching sub shortly which will free up my REL sub for another attempt with the stereo...or perhaps to use with the neutrik connection in the HT along side the Infinity sub for LFE...it's all so much fun. I'm looking forward to connecting the QED to my 9.1's. Certainly biwiring makes a difference...you only have to connect the speaker cable in different configurations on a biwirable speaker to hear the various differences...that should tell you all you need to know. It doesn't always improve things but it does make a difference. My tributaries biwire does not sound as good as the single wire vdH/Speltz Jumper connection...I'm bettin' that changes with the QED. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2466 Registered: Oct-04 | Art is correct, the P362 is a cosmetically updated 360, they are the same speaker. Any comparison between the Beta 20 and the Primus P362 is really an apples & oranges thing, I think they're both exceptionally good values, I think you'd have to spend at least double to match either performance. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1923 Registered: Jun-05 | Europe has been enoying the great QED cables for years im glad we finnally get to,Art im extrememly interrested in your view of the QED cables,I've always lusted after them from all the reviews in the British mags and a couple of military friends that have raved about them,very interrested. |
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New member Username: Biz_dancePost Number: 10 Registered: Apr-06 | Thanks for taking the time to give us your impressions on so many different speakers Art, I gave the 9.1's an audition based on your review and liked what I heard! I was interested in a budget system for the living room and liked the Paradigm Atoms but alas, the little bookshelves will have to be placed in an actual bookshelf. That makes it a no-go for the rear ported Atoms and an unfortunate but necessary compromise altogether. I found a pair of demo 9.1's from a dealer in Edmonton which I was able to get for $270 Canadian shipped. When they get here I'll be running them with an old (1981 I believe) Sony 55w amp but will keep searching for a good deal on a decent integrated. What sort of kit do you expect to be a good mate with the 9.1's? I will demo a Cambridge 540a which I hope will prove to be a good pairing but I'm open to suggestions from the experts. Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9222 Registered: Feb-05 | NAD C326BEE or Rega Brio 3 would go well with the 9.1's. It really depends on budget and taste. I'll probably have the QED's the first or second week of April. I'll buy the terminations from a friend in Corvallis and terminate them myself. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9226 Registered: Feb-05 | Changed my mind on the QED's TW and went with Chord Carnival...not biwire. I will use with the Epos. Sorry TW...read too many things about brightness with the QRD. Looking forward to reading your impressions Erich. |
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Bronze Member Username: Biz_dancePost Number: 11 Registered: Apr-06 | Thanks Art. The demo I had was with a Brio 3 and a Saturn. I'll give the C326BEE a go along with the 540A. The local NAD dealer doesn't like to lend their equipment out for home demos, at least the 9.1's are easy enough to bring along for the trip. BTW, the Era is still sounding great! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9229 Registered: Feb-05 | That was a great sub. I haven't settled on a sub for music since. Really like my REL but it isn't better than the Era. |
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Bronze Member Username: KbearPost Number: 94 Registered: Dec-06 | I've pretty much decided to pick up a pair of Diamond 9.2s later on this year (assuming I can find them). All this talk about the 9.1 (from listeners like Art, and Stereophile and WhatHiFi) has me intrigued. But I like the bigger driver of the 9.2s. Does anyone know how the 9.2 fares against it's little brother? I actually listened to the 9.2 (or 9.1, I can't recall) for a few minutes at an audio shop a year or two ago. I really liked them, but I wasn't able to listen long enough and to enough music to form a strong opinion. Any insights into how the 9.2 (9.1) might compare to the B&W 685 (686)? B&W is a bit more expensive of course. Or to the Tannoy Mercury F2? The Tannoy is in the same price range. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9246 Registered: Feb-05 | I've not listened to the 9.2's but believe that they have received some good press. Given a choice I'd rather have the B&W 685 but it's more spendy by quite a bit. The Tannoy's make great HT speakers and are pretty good for music but I don't feel that their tweeter is as good as the Wharfies or the B&W's. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 60 Registered: Jan-09 | My 9.1's arrived today! I haven't had a chance to set them up yet. I will my initial impressions as soon as I can. They won't biwired yet but I am going to biwire them. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9247 Registered: Feb-05 | Looking forward to your report. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 61 Registered: Jan-09 | Is there a break in on the 9.1's? I am listening to them now I immediately can hear more detail. Art, you were right about the bass too. I didn't loose anything here in fact the bass seems tighter than the 20's. I need to listen to them for a while. Also, until I bewire them should I use jumpers? I did the jumpers thing on my Acculines I heard a definite improvement with detail and they were already a detailed speaker with the Planar tweeter. Does biwiring do anything for HT? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9248 Registered: Feb-05 | Yep there is a break in and yep make some jumpers with that speaker cable. Pretty good little speakers eh! |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 62 Registered: Jan-09 | Impressive |
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Bronze Member Username: Biz_dancePost Number: 12 Registered: Apr-06 | Agreed, they are great. Mine came two days ago and I immediately chucked them into my main system. (Apollo and Outlaw 1070 receiver on "bypass") I switched back and forth between them and the Paradigm Studio 20 v3's and I felt these speakers did not give up as much frequency response as I imagined they would to the bigger Paradigms. The Paradigms had more presence and air but the 9.1's impressed me, sounding natural and smooth in a very harsh room. I will be putting in an area rug (it's a cork floor) and acoustic panels are planned but I currently have nothing to absorb reflections. Definitely what you would call a "bright" room. The Diamonds are so smooth and easy to listen to that I would definitely recommend them to anybody with a similarly compromised setup. I'm going to be a daddy in an estimated 7 weeks and am already planning for these beauties to be part of Baby's first hi-fi system! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1924 Registered: Jun-05 | Funny you mentioned the Chored Carnivals Art,the young guy at Goldsound here in Denver,just bought the Chord Carnivals for his personal all Rega setup with the new version of the R3's.They carry Monitor Audio,Quad,Rega,Parasound,and Wharfedale he's invited me over for a listen and he wants to hear my Xindak cables in his system,and oh since Wharefdales distrubution is back up and running,they will have all the models of the Opus2's next week,wow cant wait! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1925 Registered: Jun-05 | Dan the 9.1's are better in the midrange than the 9.2's and they image better to,the 9.2 have the deeper bass and better dynamics,take your pick as Chris said to Art earier in this thread about his prefference for a 5 inch driver Arts reference speaker the Rega R5's have a 5 inch midrange so it makes since the way he is leaning in the comparrisons.So Dan if you prefer the deeper bass and better dynamics over the better midrange resolution and better imaging go for the 9.2's i myself prefer the midrange resolution and the imaging which has changed my mind to the Evo2 8 over the Evo2 10,the Evo2 8 is actually cheaper than the 9.2's at STO.Im actually looking at the Mission E52's to,im sure that got you attention Chris.lol |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2478 Registered: Oct-04 | Yeah, I saw those Missions T, but I haven't heard them, and I'm not too keen on their asthetics. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9249 Registered: Feb-05 | One of the first things I noticed when I connected the 9.1's in place of the Beta 20's is that I was sitting in between the speakers and turned the volume up and the sound seemed to come from everywhere. Very three dimensional soundstage with really good imaging. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1926 Registered: Jun-05 | Chris there's some awsome reviews in the Austrailan market,they have all the technology of the monster Pilastro's,Mike at STO say they blow the Evo2 8 and 10 away,he said they are "much more refined" im actually nuts about their asthetics,and they have some very nice stands that go right with them.When Mission gets their distribution back right in N.America they will be a force to be recond with,the 790 series was just relaesed to replace the great 780 seres and have already won some awards,the E5 line is current actually its only been out about a year and a half,im getting them and im looking foward to their arrival.I will be having a shootout with pics in about 2 weeks the suspects are: The Swan D3.2,M1,2.1 SE,WharfedaleDiamond 8.1 & 9.1,and last but not least the Mission E52's should be fun and quite interresting. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2482 Registered: Oct-04 | Mission really needs to their act together in N.America. The new M6i Series & 79 Series both look great, but good luck trying to get an audition. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9257 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm really excited about the new Paradigm Studio 10 and 20. They are finally on the website. I hope to hear them in the next month or so. Meanwhile I have been curious about the new Epos ELS 8...after my debacle with the M12i and the subsequent horrible treatment from Luke Creek and Jacki Pugh I wasn't sure whether I would buy anything again from that bunch anyway. The first press shows yet another stinker from Epos. Ofcourse I will reserve judgement until I hear, but both reviews I've read sound very similar. Have no idea who's runnin' the shop over there but it appears as though the ELS3 may be their last great speaker for quite sometime. |
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Bronze Member Username: KbearPost Number: 95 Registered: Dec-06 | There are too many speakers. I want them all. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9265 Registered: Feb-05 | LOL!!! Me too Dan...can't you tell! |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 63 Registered: Jan-09 | Art - I am going to biwire my 9.1's. Should I go with 14 or 12 gauge? Is bigger gauge wire better? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2484 Registered: Oct-04 | Not again. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9267 Registered: Feb-05 | Go to your speaker cable thread and ask there Mordecai. Meanwhile how are you gettin' along with the Wharfies? |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 65 Registered: Jan-09 | I'm liking them. I have not AB's them with the 20's yet. I'm just listening to them and breaking them in. I want to compare them side by side but only after break in. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11949 Registered: Dec-04 | I heard back from a dealer for Wharfedale, he will quote on a price for 5 pr. I need to know if anybody else wants in, and in what finish. Black(ugh) cherry and mahogany are available. Lemme know if interested, so I can gauge a price. These will not be discount, as they are to order, but email me to gimme an idea. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9275 Registered: Feb-05 | Mine are black dude...ugh. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2485 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm partial to the 75th anniversary real wood walnut, but they are pricey as compared to the vinyl. http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.storefront/49ce698f0067b27e2740ac10034106a2/Product/View/2844  |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11952 Registered: Dec-04 | Seems to be black(ugh again) cherry and rosewood finishes available. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1927 Registered: Jun-05 | Change of plans the Mission E52 will have to wait to their is N.American distribution,not being able to have them serviced and no repair center made me think.So the Evo2 8 will take their place,I think these will be quite special,it will be interresting to hear the differences between them and the 9.1's,hopefully they only add to the 9.1's strengths.I nearly jumped on the 75th Aniv. editions Chris but I felt i owed it to myself and other people to know how much better the Evo2 8 is than the 9.1's or if their not and just a prettier face.If they are better with the same 9.1 basic principals they would be a very very special speaker indeed.At the Evo2 8's price at STO their a steal if all goes how i think it will $299 is highway robbery. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9277 Registered: Feb-05 | Very well Tawaun...looking forward to hearing from you on them. Meanwhile I'm trying to integrate my REL sub into the Rega system while awaiting my Hsu for the HT. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1929 Registered: Jun-05 | How are you liking the Rel Art? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9285 Registered: Feb-05 | I've had the REL for 2 yrs and could never quite get it right in the 2 ch system. I put it in the HT for a few months and it seemed to have loosened up. I set it, made a few adjustments and bang it sounds great....I'm almost embarrassed that I have been so anti-sub...hmm. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1930 Registered: Jun-05 | Damn its been that long since you had the Era sub? im still anti-sub,but im warming up to it,since i cant find a floorstander to be coherant enough for my taste,i might check out the Wharfedale subs which are very good for music,but im not sure about them in theater,if they dont work for theater,then im going with SVS. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11965 Registered: Dec-04 | Art, if you can't get the REL to intigrate then I don't hold out much hope for a ported pounder. |
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