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Arcam, NAD or Rotel for B&W 603s3 6.1

 

Unregistered guest
Just got my B&W 603s3 6.1 package, now it's time to change my old Yamaha receiver. Thinking of 7.1 receiver-Arcam avr300, NAD t773 or Rotel 1067. Thanks for your advices.
 

Unregistered guest
The 603 package included, 603s3 front, 601s3 rear, lcr600 centre, and asw675 sub.







 

Silver Member
Username: Geekboy

Newport, RI United States

Post Number: 337
Registered: Dec-03
Hmmm... Rotel 1067 would be nice, I've heard this combination at a Houston audio salon, and it was pleasant.

I think I'd like the NADs with the B&Ws. I almost bought the 602s before and NAD is a nice match. Either choice would be good. I would, however, audition these hy ourself. Following a recommendation is no excuse for not nurturing your personal tastes. That said... pick the combo you like best.
 

Unregistered guest
Nicely stated, geekboy. We all have to listen for ourselves; there's just no other way.
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
Thanks for your opinion. "recommendation is no excuse for not nurturing your personal tastes" - I think recommendation from 'expert' play a very important role in the purchesing and come to a point that I like 3 of them.
Sorry for poor english.
 

New member
Username: Xvoid

Post Number: 5
Registered: Jul-04
Just this week I bought a NAD T763 for use with my front pair of b&w 602s2. (Previously I had a Sony STRDB-930 Receiver.) When I unpacked the T763 my first test was to connect the 602s up and plug in the digital from my CD player, with no sub.

At first it sounded like I had the sub connected :-) The bass on my 602s opened up and the high frequencies came alive.

Now, after a short while I came to the conclusion that the NAD receiver was possibly showing up the weaknesses in my 602s. The bass is possibly be a little loose and uncontrolled but this may be due more to my speaker positioning. I also started noticing how the 602s were treating high-frequencies. They may be a little too sharp and abrasive to the top end. This is often a criticism of the b&w speakers and it is very much a matter of taste but for the first time I was _considering_ that my 602s may not be as good as I thought them to be.

I still have lots of experimenting to do and I may change my mind along the way but I would be careful of the b&w speakers. Like all speakers, they have their own "sound" and like always, you should audition amps with the exact speakers.

I auditioned the T763 with 603s and I found them to be very well matched but different amps can really treat each speaker differently - it's basic knowledge and everyone knows it. My advice is just be careful with the b&ws top end. Listen carefully. So far I'm impressed with the NAD amp apart from a slight ratling from the fan and a lot more hiss from the speakers than my old Sony reciever.
 

MarcUR
Unregistered guest
i haven't heard the rotel, but i would highly recommend the Arcam over the NAD. It costs a lot more but if you have the money its worth the improvement IMO.
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
Thanks Mathew and Marcur. I trying to look for a dealer that allow me to bring back the receiver and try it at home. My girlfriend like Arcam more(for the look), cos' Nad and Rotel is like a tank!! For me, they are all very nice.
 

New member
Username: Xvoid

Post Number: 9
Registered: Jul-04
Takhashi, yeah I had a big problem with the look of the NAD at first. Don't get me wrong, I don't like super-happy-fun-time looking recievers (in fact I loathe them), I just thought NAD could have done a bit more to modernise the look and make it a bit easier to fit into a modern decore.

However, I have now changed my mind. I actually quite like the look of the NAD stuff. Black, Silver and Puke Gold goes in and out of fashion but NAD is always NAD :-) It's funny coz now I actually prefer their look - weird.

One thing I don't like about the NAD is the lack of information on the front panel display. I'd like to see the volume at all times (not just when you change it)...along with other useful stuff.

When you buy NAD - you buy it for the sound - not for features. Therefore I am very happy with my NAD Reciever.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1318
Registered: Dec-03
if the money is allotted for and the price isn't a mojor factor.

i think the arcam is an outstanding reciever with
excelent internals.
 

Anonymous100
Unregistered guest
I agree with Kegger,

1st Arcam
2nd Rotel
3rd Nad

Listen to them and I think that you'll agree...
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
Arcam did a good job here, expert pick it, and my hifi-no brainer girlfriend pick it as well. Good size, nice colour and well layout.
 

Unregistered guest
Good for you. Glad you picked the Arcam; it's a great receiver.

Your English is fine. If you can find a moment, please post your impressions on the sound of the Arcam.
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
Go to the dealer, Arcam avr300 is $3980(australia dollar) 10% off the most, Rotel 1067 $2500, and Nad t773 $2350 after discount. Have to rethink, Arcam too much different.
 

Silver Member
Username: Edison

Glendale, CA US

Post Number: 531
Registered: Dec-03
Try to hear this panasonic SA-XR70 receiver for only $340 US on the web.

It has smooth upscale sound with a great bass!

Audiophiles are replacing units more expensive than the ones you were looking at with this one.

One professional reviewer even compared it to a Krell amp!

 

Bronze Member
Username: Shank

Pittsburgh, PA

Post Number: 46
Registered: Aug-04
James Lee, why not change your nick to "Panasonic SA-XR70 wh0re"?
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 529
Registered: Feb-04
James Lee, have you any idea when the XR70 will be available? You have been promoting it for like an enternity and nobody has even seen a corner of that mysterious avr?
 

Anonymous100
Unregistered guest
The Arcam is a little over priced in my opinion but then you can't go wrong with the Rotel...Funny enough in Canada the Rotel is $3200 and the Arcam is $2700...Get the Rotel

Who is this guy? (James Lee) what a joker...
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 535
Registered: Feb-04
I agree with anon100, the 1067 is a few steps over the T773. Get it and you wont be dissapointed.
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
Going to try the 1067 with the 603s3 package. hopefully soon. There is another retailer told me to get rotel 1068 + 1075 (5.1 setup) for about $300(australia dollar) more, is't better ?
if I need 7.1, I need to get another stereo 2ch amp 1070 for $700 (AUD) or stick to the 1067 ?
 

Silver Member
Username: Smitty

Canada

Post Number: 118
Registered: Dec-03
Matthew W,

quote:

When I unpacked the T763 my first test was to connect the 602s up and plug in the digital from my CD player, with no sub.

At first it sounded like I had the sub connected The bass on my 602s opened up and the high frequencies came alive.



I'm curious if you've tried comparing the sound with the analog outputs of your CD player. I notice a big difference, depending on the CD, between analog input and digital input with my NAD T742. The bass is definately more significant with digital input, I like this better for some CDs but prefer the analog input with others - on some CDs though there's not much difference at all.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sulfur

Post Number: 40
Registered: Dec-03
Takhashi,

I have an almost identical setup as you: 603/601/LCR600 (no B&W sub). I like them alot but their sound is far from perfect. I bought them because they were best for the money overall (sound/looks/build quality/etc), at my price point.

IMHO if you're spending so much on a receiver, you should seriously consider moving up to their 700 or maybe even 800 line if you like B&W.

I don't want to start a debate, and there's nothing wrong with buying a top end receiver. But the old rule of thumb was to spend 2x the money on speakers than on a receiver/amplifier. With a 5.1 setup, the difference should be even bigger, ie at 3x or maybe even 4x.

Assuming you already have excellent source/transport (ie not using a $50 CD/DVD player), with any of the above 3 great receivers, your weakest link will be the B&Ws! :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 545
Registered: Feb-04
100% agree with Anthony.
 

Bronze Member
Username: David_bel

Belgium

Post Number: 15
Registered: Dec-03
Takhashi,

if you consider the Rotel RSP 1068 + RMB 1075 combo you might consider as well the Arcam A90 + P90/3. The A90 is an integrated stereo amp (to which you can add an optional twin set of 7.1 multichannel inputs) and the P90/3 is simply a 3 channel power amp.

The Arcam combo is a purist "analog-only" option, but its drawback is that you need a processor. However, if you own a DVD player with DD and dts decoders onboard and you don't care about Prologic II (for TV, VCR,... or CD?!), then this drawback becomes irrelevant.

I am myself still hesitating between the Rotel and the Arcam. My guess is that I would lean towards the Arcam, as music is my priority. But the only way to find out is to audition both side by side.

Unfortunately I'm still unable to do it at my local dealer (he's still waiting for a 1075 and a P90/3). Therefore, I might be very much interrested to hear your own impressions, if ever you'd have the opportunity to listen to these two combos.

David
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
Anthony, Thanks for your input, In your opinion, which receiver or amp should i get?

David, Arcam is expendsive, much more compare to US, Rotel's prices is more friendly.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 551
Registered: Feb-04
Takhashi, a Rotel RSX1056, NAD T763/T773, Pioneer Elite 56TXi or H/K AVR7300 would all be more than enough for your system.
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
(All prices is in AUD and after discount)Rotel rsx1056 $1400, NAD763 $1700, 773 $2350, there is no elite in australia, I personally dont like H/K.

What if in the future i wanted to add another 2 speaker to make 7.1? add a 2ch stereo amp is even better?

sorry for all these questions, its my first hifi+ht system.
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
(All prices is in AUD and after discount)Rotel rsx1056 $1400 rsx1067 $2500, NAD763 $1700, 773 $2350, there is no elite in australia, I personally dont like H/K.

What if in the future i wanted to add another 2 speaker to make 7.1? add a 2ch stereo amp is even better?

sorry for all these questions, its my first hifi+ht system.
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
(All prices is in AUD and after discount)Rotel rsx1056 $1400 rsx1067 $2500, NAD763 $1700, 773 $2350, there is no elite in australia, I personally dont like H/K.

What if in the future i wanted to add another 2 speaker to make 7.1? add a 2ch stereo amp is even better?

sorry for all these questions, its my first hifi+ht system.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 553
Registered: Feb-04
Instead of Elite you have the same models with different names as AX5i (=55TXi) and AX5Ai (=56TXi). Both have i-link and usb for pc connections which might come handy. Although I think Rotel and NAD do sound slightly better than the Pios.

The 1056 has only 5 power amps and the T763 only 6 so with those you'll need to add a 2ch power amp to get 7.1. With the NAD you can configure the amps freely so that you can drive the fronts with your new beefy 2ch amp, bi-amp the center channel with two amps and use the 4 leftovers to drive your surrounds. With the 1056 you can only add the stereo amp (RB-1050 for ex.) to drive your surround back.

Your prices for the Rotels seem cheap to me. Here the 1056 costs 2000 euro, 1067 3000 euro, T763 1400 euro and T773 1900 euro. Not only is the 1067 the most expensive, but it also sounds clearly better than the T773. To you the 1056 would also be a fine choice, you'd save some money and it would still be good enough.
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
Thanks, landroval, I'll find out the price for 1050, because next year we might do 7.1
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 556
Registered: Feb-04
If you're later going for 7.1 I think you should get the 1067. It's in every way better than the 1056+1050 combo.
 

RAS
Unregistered guest
I would be very interested in finding out where you are getting these great Rotel prices in Australia Takhashi. I am currently negotiating an rsp-1068/rmb-1075 purchase. However the price I have seen for the 1067 is around AUD$3400. The price of the 1068/1075 is the same.
 

Bronze Member
Username: David_bel

Belgium

Post Number: 16
Registered: Dec-03
Takhashi,

In continental Europe, the two combos Rotel 1068+1075 and Arcam A90+P90/3 are both for sale at around EUR 3,200. How come Rotel is apparently so dead cheap in Australia? Especially compared to Arcam...
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
One of my friends work with a hifi retailer, he can get me that price. I think is very close to cost price. Lucky me.

David, I think arcam very expensive here because, only 2 retailer in our state, and around 20+ rotel retailer here.

Landroval, 1068+1075 (5.1) add 2ch amp later better than 1067 (7.1)? have to go and check the price for the 1068+1075 with my friend.
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
the 2ch amp, thinking of Rotel RB1070 to make 7.1
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
Just got the prices for the 1068+1075 = $3200 AUD
 

RAS
Unregistered guest
$3200 AUD is the price I got for the 1068/1075 combo.

Now I have to purchase the RB-1080 2ch. to make 7.1. I dont really need 7.1 but I want 200 watts x 2.

My biggest issue is B&W 604 s3 for the front or do I go B&W 703? Prices are similar.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 565
Registered: Feb-04
Takhashi, I dont think you should pay the extra for 1068/1075. The 1067 will perform very similary, and it'll do 7.1 from the beginning. Also I believe it has more features than the 1068 and with the price difference $700, you could buy more speakers, a matching DVD-player or maybe a RB-1070/1080 to drive your fronts. Also the 1056 with 1075 could be a choice. You could drive surround back and front LCR with the 1075 and surround with the onboard amps of the 1056.

RAS, you could take 1068 with bridged 1066 (3x150W) and 1080 (2x200W). This way you dont have to pay for channels you dont use.

The 703 is lightyears ahead of the 604, especially the midrange is so open an detailed, while the 604 is a little muddy. The only problem is to find a matching center speakers. The FST-driver is so good that you should get a Nautilus HTM1 or another 703 for the center. If that's not possible then you'll have to go with the HTM7, which still is a better speaker than the LCR600 for example.

Those prices seem also very strange. Here the 703 costs two times more than a 604.
 

RAS
Unregistered guest
That was a typo on my bahalf im sorry.

I meant 604 s3 v 704. Woops.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 566
Registered: Feb-04
I would still easily get the 704 over 604. Also the HTM7 will match much better with 704 than the better 703. Although with amps that good you should probably go for the 703, or at least listen to it.
 

RAS
Unregistered guest
Hopefully one day I'll be feeling rich enough to move the 704s to the rear and put 703s up front :P

Thanks landroval
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sulfur

Post Number: 41
Registered: Dec-03
I was seriously thinking of getting the 805 but the idea of buying a pair of 805 as surrounds & HTM1/HTM2 as center was too rich for my blood. So are anything higher up in the 80x series. If I were doing a 2ch stereo setup it would be a no-brainer.

In hind sight I should've tried to persuade the dealer to lend me a demo setup with 805 fronts & 601 rears & either HTM2 or LCR600 center to see how it sounds.

Anyhow, Takhashi I am running my system with a Marantz 7300ose & found it more than adequate, especially in an apartment. I have never gone above -20dB volume.

If you have money in the budget, any of the 3 receivers you mentioned are good. But since they sound different, you should try to audition them with B&W if possible to see which one you like more.

Otherwise, since B&Ws are fairly efficient speakers, I think even something like a NAD T753 will be adequate to drive your system. And you can use the spare money on a decent DVD-A/SACD player if you don't have one already.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 567
Registered: Feb-04
Anthony,

With 805 you should use a HTM2 center, but a HTM7 would work almost as well. A LCR600 is a wrong choice with it's different sound charasteristics and comb-filter problem. 600/601 would be ok for surround.
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
Thanks Anthony, Landroval and others that put in their opinion.

I think I'll arrange audition with rotel
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
Try the rotel 1067 yesterday everning for 15 minutes, I like them a lots. Going back to try 1065 + 1070 few days later.
 

Unregistered guest
For the same prices, the RSP-1068 & RMB-1075 and the RSX-1067 alone, which one will you pick ? Diving either B&W 703 or 704 front & 705 surround.
 

Bronze Member
Username: David_bel

Belgium

Post Number: 17
Registered: Dec-03
It's a no-brainer : the 1068/1075 combo!!!

David
 

Jin
Unregistered guest
Hi louis and others, what do you think of b&w704/705 and paradigm studio 40s3 (both 5.1 cost almost the same)? Which one sound better? Its 50/50 for music and HT. I'm using the Rotel 1066+1095 driving 604s3 at the moment, and will sell it to my friend and upgrade to the above 5.1
 

Atomic
Unregistered guest
Louis, pick the 1068+1075 for sure IMO, but how can you get the same prices as the 1067? Very lucky man.

I don't like receiver myself, because my friends and I never used the tuner, and we pay for it. Lots of function we don't really use.

Receiver is putting amp, surround processor and tuner in a single component, when the technologies move on, you'll have to 'throw' it out and start again. We are not spending hundred, but thousand of $$$(not talking about the 10x thousand high end), IMO is better to go for a separated system for a long run benefit.

I used to love receiver, but after 2 years of 4 receivers junk to friends and family, the life of receiver is shorter than an amp, surround processor etc.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 596
Registered: Feb-04
I agree that a pre/power combo is easier to update, because you can keep the amps, but in this case I would still get the 1067. Separates do also have problems and they usually have less features than receivers. Also the 1067 is 7.1 and the pre-stage has some more features than the 1068. The 1075 has more power than the 1067, but the B&W 600/700 are not very hard speakers to drive, so you wont get much benefit from that.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Gatt767

Malta

Post Number: 60
Registered: Feb-04
from all the options that you have been mentioning I would go for the T773 its a great buy. (check out for Ver2.0 software and DPL2x)
 

Atomic
Unregistered guest
Land, I agree that 1075 is more than enought for 600, but 700 need more power to drive. The 7.1 on 1067 is good if your really use 7.1, and I think they both very similar in features, but the 1068 has dolby pro IIx.
Sorry land, I just giving my opinion here, and I know you are more knolegable than me in hifi, from the help you gave to this forum.
I just dont like receiver, ^__^
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 600
Registered: Feb-04
Atomic, I really appreciate different opinions. But but, the 1067 do have PLIIx, but you're right on the features, the back-panels of 1067 and 1068 are almost identical and they both have computer i/o for updates. What I disagree with you is the 700's needing more power. As far as I know they're equally hard or even easier to drive than the 600's. But yes, with equal features and more real power it would be easy to go for the separates.
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
Audition for 1068+1075 (AUD$3000) with B&W 603, 601, lcr600 and asw600 (AUD$3300) in the weekend, they really sound good than 'mission 70 series' and 'monitor brone 2 series' IMO.

They has a 1066 on sale for AUD$999

 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 614
Registered: Feb-04
There we go again with wrong budget balance. I would have gotten B&W 700-series speakers and something like the RSX1056.
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
That's what the retailer recomended system. I have no idea, I know is hard for you to keep telling 'hifi dump', that the ratio is $1=amp $2=speaker, sorry.

I'll look into the system you recomended, is 704, 705 and htm7 good? which sub can go with them?
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 615
Registered: Feb-04
The 704/705/HTM7 is a great system, way better than the 600-series. If you can go for 700, then you must.

You can put any sub you want with them. I usually suggest SVS and Velodyne for movies and REL for music. I think HSU and MJ Acoustics are also quite good.
 

Anonymous100
Unregistered guest
I've seen that the new 7.1 Arcam Diva AVR-250 is comming out shortly, if money is a problem? (Well under $2000 US) the ad mentionned that it is based on its bigger brother the AVR-300, I can only assume that it will have all the goods but a little less wattage?
 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
Today I went to ask the price for B&W700 series, the 704, 705 and htm7 (sub later)cost AUD$5500 (after off), with the same $ I can get the Paradigm Studio 40, 20, cc470 + pw2200. Saw the 'Mcleo' post, you(landroval) suggest to get the Studio, is Paradigm really better?
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 627
Registered: Feb-04
No, no, I have not even heard the Paradigms and cant comment anything about them. I just based my opinion what others have said about them and the sub/no-sub difference which is quite important with movies. Although the cc470 is a d'appolito design and has comb-filter problems, so if there will be more people than just you using the system, the B&W would be better because of the equally radiating HTM7 center.

Also I think you dont need 705's as surrounds, a pair of 601 or 600(onwall) will be fine. And at front HTM7 and a pair of 705 accompagned with a sub would be enough.
 

New member
Username: Kiki

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-04
I think the B&W 700 series is way over prices, they have poor bass. Don't push your self too hard Takhashi, 600 series is a lovely package.

When buying hifi, we always end up with something more expensive than what we planning to pay for. It can go up to 100 thousand, you can't keep up, just buy something that you can comfortable afford and the one you like.

Good luck
 

Anonymous100
Unregistered guest
Takhashi,

Get the studios, I'm surprized that Landroval hasn't heard of Paradigm before...they are a great Canadian speaker manufacturer and have won awards year after year. But again this is my opinion and not yours...so I would say listen to both of them then you can see which one you prefer as they are both great set ups.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 631
Registered: Feb-04
Anon100, I know Paradigm, but they're not imported in Finland anymore so I cant listen to them anywhere here. It's a pity because I understand they're very good speakers. In the past when they were imported I heard Titan or Atom or something like that, but I dont even remember what it was like.
 

New member
Username: Spoonfed

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-04
Im "sort of" in a similar boat.... also in Australia :-)

I have had a Denon 3805 for a weekend and an Arcam AVR300 also.

My current receiver is a Denon AVR1602.

Mains are Quad 12L's
Quad Centre
Wharfdale rears

To be honest i was not "overly" impressed....... was execting more of an improvment that i notice (very supprised). The AVR300 was a little better than the 3805 but certainly not "massive" amounts.

Changing the Quad 12L's speaker cable from a single wire Tara Labs Prism cable to Nordost Solar Wind bi-wire provided more of a change/improvement than the recievers (no im not crazy...... amazed me BIG time... though i have seen it before on a mates setup... hence why tried)

I pretty much have given up on the AVR300 or 3805 options.... while i can get an AVR300 for $3000AUD ..... bit much for the "gain"
(my room is only 3m x 4.5m)

However a thread on AVS has woken me up again :-)

The "newish" Harman Kardon DPR2005 has now become an option. Its a "digital path/amp receiever" that in my demo seemingly had noticably more "grunt" than either the 3805 or the AVR300 (either is no slouch).

The DPR2005 "seemed" to make my 12L's sound "larger" than ever...... and the noise floor was amazing.... slience WAS silent...... the "hiss" as vocals introduced was heard on tracks i had never noticed before.

What really has me interested is comments like this on AVS from owners of already "reasonable" and decent gear such as the Rotel/Pre/Power stuff discussed here:

a few comments

Have included:
"I had a 1066/1075 combo before upgrading to the AVM 20. The 2005 is noticeably superior to both." (guy is talking Rotel.... and Anthem pre/pro/power)

and:
"From a HT standpoint, I really dont feel like I am making any compramises by swapping from the MC-8/sherbourn combo to the 2005. Having said that, I do think it is a sideways move- but not better or worse."

 

Takhashi
Unregistered guest
My self dont like the H/K, the looks, it's just me. I like more marcho and metal look. Quad, not fot me either, their speaker look very classic, very expensive, I like B&W 600/700 (not 800) and Paradigm Studio looks better, againt, it's just my taste.

Thanks Dan for your suggestion.
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