HK 230 vs Denon 1804 vs yamaha 1400
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New member Username: TheshadePost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-04 | can you guys help me. i cant decide on what to get for a reciever. ill be using custom made speakers. should i choose between yamaha 1400, hk 230 and denon 2803 or denon 1804? Or should i just get the denon 1604? ill be using for both home theatre and music. more on music. i like to listen to metal music. but in the future if i have extra money i can get a solidstate amp for 2 channel audio. does that mean that i should get budget av receivers? cause only those out my price range are really good at both ht and audio. and do i really need a pricy receiver when used for home theatre alone if in the future ill be getting a good solidstate amp too. |
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Bronze Member Username: AwedioMontreal, Quebec Canada Post Number: 14 Registered: Jul-04 | cam, i wouldnt recommend going for the 1604. the 1804 is an ok amp, but if u want it for music i would go for the hk or yam before the denon. denon gets better for music at the 3805. of course alot depends on ur speakers...whether they are bright or warm. what i would do if u can, once u have ur speakers, bring them to the store and audition the recveivers. thats the best way i would think. i |
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Bronze Member Username: StoneWest CoastUSA Post Number: 70 Registered: Dec-03 | What ohm rating are your custom made speakers? How about their sound characteristics. forward, laidback, bright, warm? |
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Bronze Member Username: BleustarPensacola, Florida Post Number: 24 Registered: Jul-04 | I am not at all impressed with the sound of the Denon 1604. It sounds hollow and uninvolving. Not sure of the 1804. The HK Avr230 is the best sounding of the choices you have mentioned. |
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New member Username: TheshadePost Number: 2 Registered: Aug-04 | would it be better if i just get an entry level avr and use it just for home theater and get a solidstate amp for audio? do watts matter for home theatre? |
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anon12 Unregistered guest | camille, if i were you i would also look at the marantz sr-4400 for an entry receiver. its $399 and it has all the new surround formats as well as great DAC's for all of the speakers. and best of all it has preouts so you can use better amps in teh future. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1200 Registered: Dec-03 | my vote goes to hk. if you find later you need/want an external amp for the front speakers no problem just come out the preamp outs and your fine. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShankPittsburgh, PA Post Number: 26 Registered: Aug-04 | I have a hk avr230 and i've been very happy with it. One of the few "no-regret" purchases i've made. I haven't listened to any of the other receivers (except maybe the yamaha), so i can't comment on them. |
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Unregistered guest | can someone cmpare hk avr 230 and denon vr 1804. I am confused between the two. also hk 230 says 50 watts per channel whereas denon avr 1804 mentions 90 watts per channel ?? Is the diff so much. Pl. advice. |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 628 Registered: Feb-04 | No, the real difference is in the other way round. In reality the 1804 measures 5*35W (measured by Home Cinema Choice) while the H/K will do at least the 5*50W it promises. |
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Bronze Member Username: Ben805Post Number: 12 Registered: Aug-04 | take a look at the Onkyo 601, 85w x5. it's underrated so it will more than likely do 100w x5, you can get a brand new one for $349.00 from J&R. I was in the same boat couple weeks ago, needed an amp to do 90% music and 10% movie but I went with the 2ch stereo route and bought the H/K 3480, 120w x2 plus sub connection, $299 shipped. |
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Bronze Member Username: Awj53West Sacramento, CA USA Post Number: 22 Registered: Jun-04 | Yes! I have audutioned the Denon AVR 1804, twice in the last 90 days, as well as the H/K AVR 330, Marantz 5300, and am currently running the H/K AVR 325! The H/K and Marantz are on par, with both sounding more natural on music (a must for me)than the Denon AVR 1804! I have also auditioned Denon products in the past, the 1025, 1035 stereo receivers! Denon is excellent stuff, just to bright and thin in the treble region for me! Compare them for youself though, let YOUR ears be the deciding factor! Both the units are great in the home theater area! Happy listening: Alvin |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 395 Registered: Dec-03 | Benjamin, No disrespect, but I think you are mistaken. Onkyo receivers are generally not underrated, they are OVERrated on power. When tested by Sound and Vision Magazine, the Onkyo 901 was found to clip at only half of its rated power (110 watts). I am not disputing that Onkyo receivers are decent performers...they just aren't exactly honest with their power ratings. |
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Bronze Member Username: Ben805Post Number: 13 Registered: Aug-04 | Johny, I'm not aware of their receivers being overrated. Granted, I still think the 601 is a better option than either Denon 1804 or yamaha 1400 though. |
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Bronze Member Username: Awj53West Sacramento, CA USA Post Number: 23 Registered: Jun-04 | Check the January 2004 Sound and Vision magazine for a review of the Marantz 5400, and also, I do beleive the March issue of the same magazine for the H/K 330! They both met there advertised power ratings WITH ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN! This generally is not the case for the Yamaha receivers, Denon, Onkyo etc! Although, unless you have a room that is very large, all of the receivers that have been mentioned should provide excellent results! Alvin |
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Bronze Member Username: Ben805Post Number: 14 Registered: Aug-04 | By the way, check out the review of the Onkyo 601, the main channels are being run at 4ohm (Axiom M80i), rock stable. the rest of the channels are being pushed down to 6ohm without any problem, the receive will run a bit warm for sure, I don't know where you get the information from but as far as I'm concern this receiver is far from what you called overrated. Audioholics: So far the TX-SR601 has proven to be a workhorse in my home theater system. I expected the receiver's amplifier section to balk at the 4-ohm load of the Axiom M80ti(s), but Onkyo makes a decent amplifier section. I noticed no audible distortion in CD music played in excess of 100dB - far above the listening levels I use when watching movies or listening to my CD collection - and my Axioms were grateful to be able to exercise their bottom end throughout this test. During normal listening sessions, the amplifier drove my system with plenty of gusto. Highs were clear and precise, and lows were authoritative and controlled. Essentially, music sounded the way I expected it to, and at a level that I did not expect, having come from a receiver that priced out at twice the price, but only 20% more rated power. Onkyo credits its amplifiers performance on its High Current Power Supply (H.C.P.S.) transformer combined with high-capacity filter capacitors. check out the entire review in detail: http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/onkyo_TX-SR601_review_01.ht ml |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 396 Registered: Dec-03 | Like I said, I am not disputing that Onkyo receivers are good...I had one once and it worked and sounded great...I just stated that they don't meet their power ratings. But, as Alvin stated, there are a lot of receiver brands that artificially inflate their power ratings (another conversation altogether). Generally, NAD and HK both exceede their rated power, Marantz, Pioneer Elite and a few others do good at meeting their specified power, and Onkyo, Yamaha, and Sony all fall well short of their rated power. Check out this link for more information. Notice that the Onkyo 901 (rated at 110w x 7) clipped at 50 watts with only 5 channels driven. That is less than half of its rated power, and even that is without all channels driven. The Onkyo 501, rated at 65 watts, clipped at 47. Compare that to the NAD T752 which is rated at 80 watts x 5 and was able to muster 92 watts before clipping. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3401/ratevsac.htm |
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Bronze Member Username: Ben805Post Number: 18 Registered: Aug-04 | the link doesn't work, do you know how were those receivers being tested? that would really suck if those Onkyo receivers are sending a bunch of clipping signals to some high end drivers and get them fried. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 397 Registered: Dec-03 | Try the link again later. The site must just be down. I don't know exactly how they were tested, but the numbers all come from Sound and Vision Magazine. The numbers are in chart format. I think the author of the site I gave just reads each issue of S&V and adds receivers to the chart as they are reviewed by the magazine. |
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Bronze Member Username: Ben805Post Number: 20 Registered: Aug-04 | I just check again and it works now, I do not know how reliable is that chart but those numbers are pretty shocking.... |
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New member Username: Sound_advicePost Number: 2 Registered: Sep-04 | Listen for yourself, personnaly I prefer the sound of the Denon, I'd recommend the Nad but people around here seem to have a real issue with Nad...That's my 2 cents  I've heard the HK and the Yamaha both sound the same in my opinion, the Denon seems to have more sexyness to it, a better sound stage, it's a soomth sound that makes you forget that you're actually listening to speakers and not a live performance, and yes you get better performance as you go up in product lines, so the 3805 will definetly sound better...I guess it depends what you can afford... my vote goes to Denon |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 399 Registered: Dec-03 | Benjamin, Like I said, as far as I know, those numbers are simply compiled from Sound and Vision Magazine. I consider that magazine to be fairly reliable...at least as reliable as any magazine can be I guess. Yes, some of those numbers definately are shocking...makes you wonder how many "uneducated" people were duped into buying substandard products based on inflated power ratings. When you see a $200 Sony receiver at Wal-Mart rated at 100watts x 7 you know something has to be wrong. |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 632 Registered: Feb-04 | This is what 'dazbug' from avsforums thought of AVR630 and AVR3805: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=440336&pagenumber=3 --- "Went to 2 other stores today to demo the H/K and 3805 agin (properly set up at higher end stores) 3805 was set up properly in a dedicated theater room as was the H/K. Put on my favourite test demo, TERMINATOR 3, as I've heard it 100 times and easy to compare, as im familiar with it. Denon 3805- Uurghh. The sound from this was sooo bright and very harsh. I couldnt listen to more than 5 minutes in a row. We tried changing things but gee whiz, it is a harsh sounding amp. He had to turn the volume up to - 09 db to get a loud result. Once again, not impressed with 3805. After this demo, i striked it off the list. I loved the 3805 remote in pictures, but when i finally got to use it, hated it. Just felt cheapish. Went to another store to test H/K again. 630 - WOW. Ths receiver is so warm and smooth sounding. Pure Bliss. Only went down to -19 db, and it feels liek it has sooo much power in it. Like i said earlier , it feels like u are right there in the action. Everything is so crisp and distortion free. Ive decided this is the one for me. IVE FINALLY DECIDED TO GO THE 630. It is awsome in sound. BTW- dropout issue? - Not an issue at all. If it had not been for this board, I wouldnt have thought twice about it and new batch of 630's are coming out soon with this fixed. H/K you've got me sold." --- So the Denon still seems to be very bright. |
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Bronze Member Username: FalpPost Number: 84 Registered: Mar-04 | Maratnz Sr5400 Can handle all types of music, even Mettalica at almost ma level with ease, with speakers like MA Silver S2... |
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Unregistered guest | We are far from the start, and I put again the question : Denon 2803 or HK 230? I'm in similar situation, I'm looking for an AVR for a 5 Bowers & Wilkins DM603S3 and 1 Klipsch SW. What do yoyu recommend me? Denon AVR 2803 Denon AVR 2805 Denon AVR 1705 HK AVR 530 I specially like music. Tx. |
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New member Username: Sound_advicePost Number: 6 Registered: Sep-04 | Aspid, You have some great speakers...why do you want to matched them up with a middle the road receiver? specialy if music is you main concern... Of the receivers you mentionned I like the Denon 2805 but probably will disapoint you with music... Look at NAD t763, Marantz 5400OSE/7400 or the Rotel 1056(it's a bit more but will blow the others when it comes to music) Enjoy |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 636 Registered: Feb-04 | You must listen to them yourself. See my post with quote from dazbug and you see why. |
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Unregistered guest | Well, you know, I live in Mexico City, and it's really hard to find this equipments. Also, the taxes appplied on them are incredible high, so in total prices we are talking for example with the Denon AVR 2803 $1,344 USD. Harmann K. AVR630 $1,480 USD Harmann K. AVR330 $927 USD Denon AVR 1705 $1,053 USD (and wait 20 days) Denon AVR 2805 $1,500 USD (and wait 20 days) NAD T773 $2,480 USD NAD T753 $1,579 USD Marantz? Rotel? forget it !! So, you can see, my problem is BIG. Need an urgent advice about choose one of the first 4. Tx. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1445 Registered: Dec-03 | I'd say for music the hk's over the denons. I just find them easier to listen to! |
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Bronze Member Username: Awj53West Sacramento, CA USA Post Number: 24 Registered: Jun-04 | Kegger, I agree! As I have stated in my previous post, the Denon seems to be very bright, and thin in the treble area! The H/K as well as Marantz receivers seem to be on par, as far as sound quality is concerned! I have had both the H/K 325/330 and Marantz 5300/6400 in my home and found both to be very musical as opposed to the Denons. Alvin |
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New member Username: Sound_advicePost Number: 9 Registered: Sep-04 | Sorry Guys I disagree, In my opinion Denon sounds better than HK, Denon's are not overly bright...it's a matter of opinion, I feel that the Hk is too laid back, it has no life and is kind of dry...I'm not looking for a battle of words i'm just voicing my opinion |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1448 Registered: Dec-03 | sound advice: agreed i'm not out to start an arguement either. we just happen to differ on what we prefer as our sound choices! good day to you sir. |
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Bronze Member Username: Awj53West Sacramento, CA USA Post Number: 25 Registered: Jun-04 | Again, your ears are ALL that matters, after all, you will be listening and enjoying to the equipment, not us! So, in the end, if you are satisfied with you purchase, that is ALL that matters! And, I in NO way intended to slight the Denon products, at all! Cheers: Alvin |
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Unregistered guest | Ok. supposed that the matter of the sound is done. I Like music, and we understand that the best equipment is the one that you enjoy. OK. Now: If you have to decide in matter of the special features of each Denon and Hk, what do you recommend? Denon AVR 2803 Harmann K. AVR630 Harmann K. AVR330 Denon AVR 1705 I just want an advice, based on the majority of the comments everything seems to point to the Hk, I had an HK AVR520 but sometimes when I use the Logic 7 in the "enhanced" mode i note some disturbing noises like "cracks" in the surround speakers, once i change to the dOlby pro logic or DTS neo the noise dissappear. On the other side, I have a Denon DVD2900 and believe, is a superb equipment, so is hard to believe that the majority of you decide for the HK. Well, i hope you understand my position and help me to decide the best you can recommend me. Tx. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sound_advicePost Number: 21 Registered: Sep-04 | Aspid, I think at this point you must listen to both units (hopefully in the same environment, same speakers...) Only you can decide what is trim and proper for yourself...we all have our opinions and you know what; I would hate to be a deciding factor at this stage, as far as features are concern both have all the bells and whistles, in my opinion sound quality should be your biggest factor here and only your ears can be the judge. Good luck! |
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Bronze Member Username: BleustarPensacola, Florida Post Number: 56 Registered: Jul-04 | Most people find the HK is warmer and fuller and the Denon is thinner and brighter. Buy what sounds best to you. Also, consider the remote. The AVR330 remote is not real good while the AVR630 is better. Not sure about the Denon 2803. The 3805 is a lighted touch screen and has had mixed opinions. |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 639 Registered: Feb-04 | The 2803 has very weak multichannel power. It measured 5x25W to 8ohm at a Finnish magazine, while most others usually are at least 5x~70W. This is because it has a weak power supply. The AVR1705 is a very basic model and is not even comparable to the others. From H/K I would look for AVR230 or AVR430. The extra price to AVR330 or AVR630 wont give you that much more features or sound. If you can afford the AVR430 I suggest you go for it. |
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Bronze Member Username: FalpPost Number: 85 Registered: Mar-04 | If you have a DVD2900 teh ideal match would be a 3805. Get a Denon 2805, very good, or a same price Marantz SR7400 very good and more musical! |
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New member Username: AspidPost Number: 1 Registered: Sep-04 | I appreciate all your comments. like i said before, here in Mexico City it's very difficult to find these equipments, and the problem of listen to them it's a kind of impossible mission because the vendors have phisically only one unit of Hk (for example the AVR330) and one of the Denon (the discontinued AVR1604)and if you ask for other model they bring it to you 20 days later ONLY IF YOU PURCHASE IT. Forget it if you want to change it for another model and wait for the time to bring it to you (another 20 days), for that time i will forgot how the first sounds like. My B&W speakers take about 2 months to have them. Anyway, is for this troubles that I ask to people who have more contact with these equipments, and i do not want you to feel bad for help me to decide "blindly", believe me, at the end I will enjoy the equipment that I decide, but the way to get that decision is a kind of experiment that is equally enjoyable. Thanks |
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Bharath Unregistered guest | I am looking at a Kef Coda 90/80/70 & a 100w sub with a Denon 1804 combination... any experiences/opinions on this...hanks |
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