Hawk, Need your help in choosing Receiver and Speaker combination

 

Ray
Hawk,

I am thinking of buying a NAD T742 receiver, T512 CD/DVD player but need your suggestions on choosing speakers (just two main). I am debating between B&W 602 S3 and PSB Image 4T. Do you think they are good match with the reciever? The price range between them is similar but I don't know which one I should go for. Can you please help me with your suggestions. I appreciate your help. I mostly listen to classical music so clarity is quite important to me. I will be buying these in a place where the NAD dealer sells the PSB, but not B&W and he is suggesting PSB over B&W. So what do you think?

Also what kind of interconnectors I should get for receiver/DVD player? Is the Monster cable good for these? Also what kind of speaker wire I should get? My budget is around $1200-1300, so if I could get within that range, it will be good for me.

Thank You.
 

Johnny
Ray,

Obviously I am not Hawk, but I happen to have a lot of insight into two of the brands you speak of. I bought an NAD T762 about two months ago, and then bought PSB Image 2B for mains and a 9C center, and am extremely happy with them. I will post my review of the speakers below if you want to read it. If you say you listen to a lot of classical music and like clarity, then NAD is definately something to look at. NAD is very vocal about their "music first" philosophy. It is their view that overall, music requires much more detail and clarity than does HT. Therefore, they focus their efforts in providing detailed music, and thus the HT falls into place naturally. The PSB speakers bring out this clarity even more. PSB and NAD are owned by the same company, and PSB speakers are used in NAD labs to do tests and such. The combination is absolutely wonderful, in my opinion. As for the B&W speakers, I have never heard them paired with an NAD, but I have heard them paired with other receivers, and they do have a rich sound as well. I am not as experienced with these speakers and probably can not tell you as much as someone else.

Interconnectors: Monster Cable makes wonderful interconnects, but you don't have to go that expensive, unless you really want to. The top of the line Monster optical cable costs nearly $100. I just cannot justify this kind of expense for a small 4 foot cable. In my opinion, you will get the same sound with Monster's lower end models as well. I would also recommend checking out www.partsexpress.com. Their house brand, called "Dayton" provides a wonderful off brand alternative to the overpriced (in my opinion) Monster brand. Accoustic Research also makes decent interconnects sold at a decent price at Best Buy. Finally, speaker wire. Get a good 12 gauge wire, and you will be fine. Once again, check out Parts Express. I got 100 feet of 12 gauge speaker wire for $25 shipped. The same amount of Monster Cable from Circuit City would have cost over $150!


https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/6394.html
 

Railbait
I second Johnny's recommendation of partsexpress.com. I just bought two av cable sets(Dayton) and two optical cables for $38 delivered.

Kudos to the board for turning me on to that site. THANKS!
 

John A.
Ray,

Johnny's advice is very good. In Europe you would be likely to find an NAD dealer recommending B&W, instead, but I think it has to do with franchising and such things, not sound: they are both excellent makers. I am a KEF owner and have nothing but praise for KEF, all models I know. If Hawk has not been put off this forum by trolls (which I very much think he has not), he would sincerely recommend Magnepan speakers, and expecially for classical, I think. These unorthodox "electrostatic" speakers (long made by others, too, like Quad) have a very loyal following with classical music listeners because of their exceptional detail and clarity. Quad's slogan was always "the closest approach to the original sound". Magnepan are much more affordable than Quad and all I recommend is you consider them. They do direct sale, and have a long no-commitment home trial period on some parts of US, I have learned here. Magnepan

Johnny and Ralibait are also dead right about cables. BTW there is an NAD T533 player coming out in February which will have DVD-Audio. This another subject, but I recommend you consider DVD-Audio. Even if you decide against, I think the NAD T532, available now, has better sound than the T512, though even that is a good choice.

Here are some threads with some posts you might be interested in. I sometimes feel I could do with a bit of support in the music department; I am always aware classical is seriously minority stuff. But it is where "high-end" makes the most difference, in my opinion.

What does"DVD-audio" mean here?

What's the best dvd to test out my new system?
 

Ray
Thanks guys! I truly appreciate your help and suggestions. If you think it is good enough to go with Dayton cables, I will go with it. I have some more questions though as far as cable and connectors go. I am buying a good stereo system first time ever and thus I have no experience in these things. Thus I will appreciate if you explain me these in little easier terms.

1. How many cables and connectors do I need to connect my Receiver and DVD/CD player? I think there are a/v cables, optical cables and S-Video cables? Do I need all of them?

2. What do I need to buy to connect them? Do I need gold binding posts or banana plugs to connect?

3. Do I need any connectors to connect speakers with receivers?

Thus my question is that if you had to set this up, how will you do it? I will truly appreciate if you guide me through the different steps to set this system up

Thanks again in advance.

Ray

What happened to Hawk, is he on vacation?
 

John A.
Ray,

1. How many cables and connectors do I need ...there are a/v cables, optical cables and S-Video cables? Do I need all of them?

If you settled on that receiver you can get the user manual from the NAD web site. That will tell you how to set it up and advise on cables.

All signals go into the A/V receiver. Analogue cables are now standardised with male "RCA" connectors (small co-axial plugs) at each end for each channel. So for one stereo input you need one pair. You can also use a digital input, in most cases (except e.g video tape players; phono; etc), today. Cables for digital are: EITHER 1) co-axial, electrical cables with the same male RCAs as for analogue, but the cables are thicker and you only need one for each input (however many channels: 1, 2, 5.1 etc). An "analogue cable" will do the job safely for experimenting on set-up, but may cause interference. OR 2) Optical aka "TOS-link" fibre-optic cables. One per input, same as electrical. There is no difference in sound between 1) and 2) in my opinion (but some claim there is). For stereo you can choose between analogue and digital connection. If you get a 512 I would recommend digital, then you are using the receiver's DAC. If you get a 532, there will probably be no difference, only in convenience. If you get a "true" DVD-Audio player you will need five channels of analogue connection to the receiver (the 542 can take that): then the DAC has to be the one on the player.

2. What do I need to buy to connect them? Do I need gold binding posts or banana plugs to connect?

No. They are only for convenience.

3. Do I need any connectors to connect speakers with receivers?

No. 1 cm or 1/2 inch or bare copper at each end of the speaker is cheapest and best. Some prefer convenience of banana plugs.

The subwoofer can be connected, usually with EITHER the same sort of cable as for digital audio (most prefer this, OR between the receiver and the main speakers, with speaker cable.

Where is Hawk?

Good question. See
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/7657.html
 

Ray
John A.,

Thank you very much for your help.

I looked at the NAD manual (downloaded from the web) and I have some questions regarding the connections. I just want to clarify one more time to make sure I understand what you are suggesting before I order these cables.

It looks like I can connect the DVD/CD player using a RCA audio cable and a S-Video cable for better sound with the TV. However, for connecting it to the Receiver, I have to use a audio cable (provided with the player) and a digital cable which can be either co-axial or a optical cable to use the DAC of the receiver. Therefore I need to order this. Do I understand this correct? For ordering optical cable from Parts Express, which one should I order? Is the RCA cable which comes from NAD good enough,, or do I need to order a new one?

I also want to connect a cassette deck annd I am hopeful that can be connected using a RCA audio cable (probably provided by the maker).

For connecting the speakers, don't I need a speaker cable (12 ga) which have a RCA or banana plug on one end (which goes into the receiver) and open end into the speaker? Can the bare end of the copper of the speaker wire go into the receiver??

I truly appreciate your help. If you don't mind and take a look at the manual for NAD T742 and let me know how many cables I will need, that will be a great help to me. It has been a quite a new learning experience for me.

Thanks again,

Ray
 

Johnny
Ray,

1. The RCA cable from NAD should be fine. However, you do not need to use both this and the svideo. You only need to use the svideo to connect the DVD player to the tv, and the optical or coax digital cable to connect it to the receiver. The only thing that connecting the RCA audio cables to your tv will do is allow you to use the TV speakers to watch DVD's. If you are going to use the receiver to produce the sound for movies, then the rca cables are useless. When ordering the optical cable, just get one that is long enough for what you need. Other than that, there really isn't anything you need to look for. I recommend the "Dayton" brand...it Parts Express house brand and is a very good off-brand alternative.

2. You do not have to have banana plugs to attatch the speakers to the receiver. It is just a matter of convenience. Space on the back of receivers is usually very limited. Banana plugs just make things easier, but it is perfectly acceptable to use the bare copper wire.

3. If you let me know what type of equipment you are attatching to your receiver, I can try to help you figure out how many/what types of cables you need.
 

Anonymous
Ray:

S-video is only for the transfer of a video signal and you do not need to connect the audio part of the three connectors (RCA) to a receiver unless you decide to use your tv's sound capability for ocassional DVD viewing.

You will however need to connect the stereo output rca connectors at the back of either your tv, satellite or cable box to the inputs at the back of your receiver to enable you to enjoy improved stereo performance or to enable the use of your receivers Dolby Pro-Logic or DTS equivalent or even Nads own EARS formats.
 

Ray
Johnny,

Thank You. I want to connect the reciever with my TV (simple SONY TV), a cassette deck, and a DVD/CD player and a pair of main speakers. I will later buy more speakers to make it a home theater.

Ray
 

Johnny
Ray,

You will need:

1. For the DVD/CD player: 1 s-video or component video cable to go from the player to the tv---and 1 optical or coaxial digital cable to go from the player to the receiver.

2. For the cassette deck: 1 rca audio(dual red and white) cable to go from the player to the receiver

3. For the speakers: 12 gauge speaker wire...whether you get banana plugs is up to you. Since you only have 2 speakers now, space should not be an issue and bare wire should be fine...but when you try to add 3 more speakers, you might want to consider them.

4. I have one question for you...you say you want your tv connected to the receiver (or at least that is how I read it)? How you plan to do this will determine what type of cable you need. If you simply want to connect the tv or the cable box to the receiver in order to receive tv sound through your receiver, you will need another set of rca cables to go from the audio output of the tv/cable box...or if you have a digital satellite system, you will need another optical or coax digital cable.

Hope this helps...any more questions just ask!
 

Ray
Unregistered guest
Johnny,

Thanks a lot. I looked into the Parts Express website and saw the Soundking 12 ga speaker wires. Is that the one you were talking about. I also found some audiophile quality Monster speaker cables (Monster 12 Ga wire 50' Part Number 100-535), going away for cheaper rates with a closeout price, I think. Which one do you recommend?

I guess I don't need to connect the TV with the receiver. I was intially thinking that because I thought I will need that to watch DVDs.

Ray
 

New member
Username: Johnny

Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2003
Ray,

Yes, the Soundking wire is exactly what I bought. I am pleased with it. I have never done a direct side by side comparison with anything else, but for me, it has worked fine. As for the Monster cables...that is actually a really good price...but I still don't know if you need it. At Circuit City, the same wire sells for $1.60 a foot. When they say "audiophile quality"...what does that mean? Who sets these standards? I think you will find that this is just another marketing ploy. They make you think you are getting some real high quality stuff when in reality, it is pretty much the same run of the mill stuff that you can get for much cheaper. True "audiophile quality" wire would cost you thousands of dollars. I read a New York Times article once in which a man spent...get ready for this...somewhere around $15,000 a piece for TWO speaker wires. That is audiophile quality...not the Monster suff. Keep in mind, the Monster cable is still more than twice as much as the Soundking cable. Monster makes a good cable, but is it worth that much more? For me, probably not. In my opinion (and I am sure others will disagree), you will hear little if no difference between the two brands you mentioned. I have read about blind tests in which listeners could tell no difference between "high quality" speaker wire and a simple lamp cord. I doubt that you will either. However, if you feel better about buying from a name brand like Monster, then go ahead and buy it...it is better to do so now rather than later. We are only talking about a difference of around $30...well worth it if it will make you comfortable.

Like I said...it is fine if you have your TV connected with the receiver, you just have to keep that in mind when you are buying cables. If you want to listen to regular tv shows using the receiver, then you will obviously need to connect them. As far as watching DVD's, you do not need to connect the receiver to the tv...in fact, it is probably better if you don't.
 

New member
Username: Railbait

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2003
Ray,

If you plan to use your cassette deck to record anything you will need a second set of rca cables.

:-)
 

New member
Username: Snakeyes

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2003
johnny,
please correct me if im wrong but i beleive that NAD and PSB are just distributed by the same company in america not built and developed. that may also explain why John A. states that in europe NAD dealers recomend B&W but i could be wrong.
 

New member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2003
Jake,
I think that is correct.
See The Lenbrook Group.
 

New member
Username: Johnny

Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2003
Jake,

I know very little about marketing, so my terminology may be wrong. The way I understand it, the same parent company owns both NAD and PSB, and like John A. said, the name of the company is The Lenbrook Group. On the Lenbrook website it says that NAD and PSB are both "registered trademarks" of Lenbrook Industries Limited. I take that to mean that Lenbrook owns both, but I could definately be wrong.

Also, in the FAQ section of the NAD website, under the heading "What speakers would you recommend", it states:
"While NAD does not endorse any particular speaker brand, our parent company owns a Canadian line of speakers called PSB Speakers (www.psbspeakers.com) which has a wide variety of price points. These speakers compliment the line of NAD products beautifully. We encourage you to check the web-site and see the "Home Theater" section that give a variety of Home Theater System suggestions." So as far as I can tell, the same company owns both NAD and PSB...but like I said, I don't know much about marketing and the world of international corporations, so I may be wrong. As for whether NAD and PSB are developed and built together...they are probably not. I know that PSB speakers are built in Canada, and the NAD receivers are built in China...so obviously they are not built together. Who knows...the only thing that I really know for sure is that the two brands sound awesome together, in my opinion, no matter who owns, distributes, develops, or builds either one.

I think another reason that NAD dealers in Europe recommend B&W is that PSB is not sold in Europe...at least that is what I have heard. John A said he had never heard of PSB before.
 

New member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2003
Jake, Johnny,

You can certainly get PSB speakers in Europe, but I think they are not as common as, say B&W. On Dec 6 I was just saying NAD dealers do not automatically push PSB speakers. In Europe they are quite likely not even to carry them.

Speakers from specialist maufacturers are probably still the most regional of audio components. PSB speakers look wonderful, judging from their web site. If I were in the market, and in N. America, I would certainly wish to try them.
 

New member
Username: Johnny

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2003
John A,

I stand corrected. I know you mentioned one time that you had never heard of PSB before, and I guess I assumed that meant that they did not sell them in Europe. You know what assuming does....
 

New member
Username: Hawk

Post Number: 16
Registered: 12-2003
Ray:

I'm sorry I didn't find your post earlier--the holidays have been keeping me pretty busy.

You have the makings of a very fine system. I would endorse the purchase of the T742 with the T512. Now, for speakers you are comparing two very fine speakers and I don't think you will go wrong with either of them. Their sonic balance is a little difference as the PSB has a more reserved sounding top end, but I think the PSB is a little smoother across the entire audio range. In case it might help, I am pasting links to a couple of very good reviews of both speakers for your information. Here is the review of the B+W:

http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_print.asp?ID=2451

And here is the link for the review of the PSB:

http://www.stereophile.com//loudspeakerreviews/330/index.html

Like I said, I don;t think you can go wrong with either speaker. If you want something else to consider, look at the NHT SB-3, a compact bookshelf monitor that is incredibly smooth sounding and a good match for the NAD receiver and a super speaker for classical music. Kiefs sells them for $470/pair. However, you should consider your room dimensions when choosing a speaker. If you have a particularly large room, I would opt for the PSB. If not, then I would consider a smaller speaker. In any event, audition them to be sure they don't have a quirk that you can't live with.

BTW, Johnny has made a super suggestion on interconnects. The Dayton Audio cables are just a wonderful value. As for speaker wire, either the Monster or the Soundking is a great value and you certainly don't need anything better or more expensive.

Merry Christmas!
 

Ray
Unregistered guest
Johnny, John A., Railbait and Hawk:

Thanks a lot to you guys for your help and invaluable suggestions. I trully appreciate your comments.

I have just another question:

Which one gives the better connection

1. S-Video vs. Component Video cable?

2. Optical vs. Coaxial digital cable?

I will go ahead and assemble the components (have to look at my credit card bills specially during this time of the year) and order the stuff and enjoy all the beautiful Mozart, Beethoven, Hadyn Chopin, Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky, Brahms.....and many more.

Ray

 

New member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 22
Registered: 12-2003
Ray,

You are welcome.

I. Don't know and will look for others' answers.

2. No difference, except electrical cables are more susceptible to picking up interference than optical. But there are strongly held, contrary views on Coaxial Digital Connection Vs Digital Fiber Optical Connection?. Why not get both types, compare, and join in the fun...?

Great composers, of course, but all of music for performance in front of an audience, therefore, arguably, least enhanced by multi-channel recording. All stereo leaves out, for those guys, is the ambience of the venue. You have to go a bit earlier, or later, really to test your surround sound!
 

New member
Username: Johnny

Post Number: 23
Registered: 12-2003
Ray,

1. Component is higher quality than s-video.

2. John is right. No real difference. Some say they can hear differences, others say they cannot. Check out that other thread John listed.
 

New member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 24
Registered: 12-2003
Ray,

If you get a chance, get hold of a Naxos DVD-Audio disc (cheaper than your average CD). From your list they have only one Mozart and one Tchaivovsky at present. But it is not a big jump from Brahms to Elgar's Symphony No. 3; I have just listened to the first movement.

I have been totally knocked out by the sound quality. I have dropped this in in other threads, but no-one responds. Classical is minority stuff.

These discs alone convince me DVD-A is the future. Your T521 will handle them OK playing the DVD-A tracks, either DD or DTS....
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