Receiver Repacement


New member
Username: Rowdog

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jan-16
Hi all ...looking for some recommendations from the much more experienced .... my Integra DTR-6.9 has developed some problems... Onkyo has a program for out of warranty, to be traded in for upgrades ..and I am leaning that way ...but figured i'd ask those who know more ...
music is 90% of my use, though I certainly appreciate the sound quality when watching a good action flick ! The room allows only a 5.1 , and that has been fine, typically the music, I pod or Pandora thru the laptop is all I use...Aperion speakers, Panasonic plasma 60" round it out... I know the technology has gone way beyond what was offered when I bought all the audio gear (2009) and I don't resist it, just do not need all of it ...3 HDMI, powered sub RCA and a digital optical port do it....
so, good 5.1 w/@ least 100W/ch ? $450 - 700.00 range ..
I spent 750.00 on the 6.9 back then, and not opposed to paying more, just seems like I get a whole lot more then i'll use ?!?!


Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 18125
Registered: May-04

Actually, this part of the forum doesn't spend much time actually discussing (or recommending) AV receivers unless the amplifiers are having problems.

This (the AV receiver market) is a product segment that changes as often as twice yearly with major, total and complete line introductions at each Winter CES. How many ways are there to build a decent AV receiver? Not that many IMO.

Most "high end gear" will have model changes less frequently (maybe every few years) and those products don't depend primarily on features and connectors to differentiate models from year to year.

Most mass market lines (Sony, Pioneer, Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha, etc.) will have two discrete chassis in their AV receiver line up. One chassis will be the base line models and will have, maybe, two or three receivers sharing that same chassis with just a few minor changes in stated wattage and features.

The "better" chassis will have two or three models built on it and they too will vary primarily by wattage and features. Unless you simply have to have a feature found on the more expensive models, buy the lower model in the chassis line and you'll have an OK receiver that simply does what it says it will and nothing more.

Most of the features found on today's AV receivers are junk to begin with and you'll either never use them or use them once and then never again. But you will be paying for them. And all those duplicate ins/outs on the back panel. There really shouldn't be a half dozen ways to connect a CD player.

It's probably impossible to tell before you buy but, nowdays, I'd be concerned about where I could get a brand new receiver repaired. Most of the mass market lines have no local service departments today and you're going to have to send your busted receiver half way across the country to some regional repair center. Which will only add to your total repair costs and down time.

It's almost the manufacturer's way of ensuring you don't get any smart ideas about having your five year old AV receiver fixed and instead you simply go buy something new rather than go through the hassle and cost of shipping both ways.

That's cynical, I know, but, more true than most of us would care to think. The AV receiver market as been a dead man walking for the last decade ... at least. They've been living off selling new ("gotta have") connectors for the last eight of those years. Bluetooth, wireless, yada yada and etc, etc, etc. Nothing new in the way of sound quality though. Just more window dressings, more features and less quality overall.

Therefore, in your price range, you're well into "mass market", "consumer grade" or "big box", however you wish to put it, equipment. The sonic differences between lines in this price range and genre are difficult to discern since very little of the source material used with such a product has any real world reference. They all make a violin sound fairly recognizable as a violin, a piano like a piano, etc. and that's about it.

None of the products in this genre and price range are actually selling sound quality. They make "sound", what more do you want?

For the most part, AV receivers are sold on their in/out connectivity and their remotes plus any ancillary features such as, say, automatic room eq or wireless internet capability.

Which can actually be fairly cool if you are only looking at the present. A decade prior you would have paid $2.5k for a separate component that would have done what an AV receiver has put on one small chip today and sells at a bargain basement price. Of course, the more complex the receiver, the less likely it is to be repaired when it breaks. That's kinda the game too. The more you spend, the sooner it will be obsolete if you want to stay current.

Wattage as stated on paper is all but meaningless as this thread explains;

Video switching is best ignored too. Run your video sources right into the TV monitor and you'll almost always have a higher quality look to your system. Unless you're buying video switching to send the signal to different parts of the house, just don't bother with what they put in an AV receiver as "enhancement" circuits.

The Aperion speakers are not well known products when it comes to specifications and any loudspeaker spec is probably the one category of product data even less useful (and truthful) than are AV receiver specs.

There's hardly a loudspeaker manufacturer who states the lowest impedance point and the highest phase angle of their products and certainly not where those two values occur in the frequency response of the systems. No one makes them do it, most consumers would only get confused by the data if they provided it and so they just ignore what is probably the single most important spec in any loudspeaker/amplifier purchase.

Most of the Aperion line is relatively high in electrical sensitivity though which does benefit the user in terms of volume potential. No need for high wattage amps with these speakers, you'll be wasting your money. A literal handful of watts - like, ten! - should be plenty for most listeners. You need more watts like you need a colder refrigerator. After a while, it's just more BS.

Ideally, since your speakers are a bit of an unknown as far as electrical load on the amplifier, you would want to have audition privileges before you permanently committed to a receiver. That's not always possible though.

If your current Onkyo has been driving the speakers adequately, then you can probably get by with any decent AV receiver. If, though, your current Onkyo may be having trouble due to a more than usually difficult speaker load, you would want to consider stepping up in the quality of the power amplifier/power supply unless you want to be buying another receiver in another few years.

Six years or so is about the average lifespan of a mass market AV receiver. At that point problems are common and seldom ("never" is more like it) is the receiver worth fixing.

New types of connectors, faster data transfer connectors, more connection options and more features have been added to the mix in the six years since you did this last and it's simply worth your money to buy new and scrap the old. It's sort of a shitty, give the customer the big middle finger way to do business but that's how the AV receiver market has arranged itself for several decades now.

You could break the cycle and look at buying a higher quality two channel system. If you also upgraded your sources from iPod and went with the upgraded Pandora you could do well with something like the new PS Audio Sprout; 1YmiggCb.97

The built in DAC included in the Sprout will handle Pandora's 24/192 upsampled signal quality though it won't improve your low resolution iPod source much. There's not much that will improve MP3 quality other than stepping up to at least FLAC/WAV/CD quality sources.

The point of higher quality audio gear is to show you what is actually on the source. When the source has been sliced and diced and run through the lowest bit size food processor to the point all nutritional value has been eradicated, putting that source through a higher quality audio system will tend to disappoint for all but the most non-committal background music.

And, to be honest, I haven't even seen the Sprout. It's still fairly new and not many dealers are carrying it. I have sold PS Audio products for several decades and can easily say any PS product will likely be working well after you've replaced three AV receivers.

Unfortunately, that just goes to show how lousy the AV receiver market really is. Total built in obsolescence.

Two channel gear tends to last, more channels and more features and ... well, the money has to come from somewhere. I've got forty and fifty year old two channel gear that's still running but not a single AV product that's more than a few years old.

Same can be said for most of the lower to mid end/high end two channel gear; NAD, Cambridge, or any number of lesser known names. NAD and Cambridge make surround receivers too. They'll cost a bit more and sound a bit better than the Denon or Onkyo but probably won't last any longer.

You know what you listen to and how important it is to have some kind of fakey surround sound. I'm not much of an action film watcher so I don't care much for the type of sound the average AV receiver puts out.

If I had to buy an AV receiver, I suppose right now (and with your speakers as a must stay) I'd still be looking at either HK or Marantz in the mid-price ranges.

But I'd actually easily settle for a much better sounding two channel system than throw more money at an AV receiver that doesn't last long enough for me to actually figure out all the frickin' buttons on the remote.

For what it's worth - and, recently, I'm not sure it's worth much - the Stereophile magazine group also markets "Sound and Vision" magazine and they are praising this Denon; xWGMXTXW7D.97

I don't know a thing about it. I don't know a thing about the guy who wrote the review. He could be a real tin eared audio dunce as far as I know. He certainly makes it sound as if there's really no reason to spend more on any audio amplifier, doesn't he? I'm guessing he doesn't actually read Stereophile.

Denon has been a fairly middle of the road line for years now. Better than basic Pioneer and Sony and the big box house brands but not as good as others.

D&M Holdings owns both Denon and Marantz. Since the acquisition of both companies many years ago, Denon has been positioned as the lower end, "entry level" product for the company and Marantz the "name brand", "upgraded" product.

Doesn't mean Denon can't produce a pretty good product but it's still a mass market AV receiver you can buy at most big box stores or on line through any number of retailers. Exclusivity is no longer an indication of anything though in audio. McIntosh can be seen at Best Buy. Take that! all you purveyors of "audio salons"!!!

Here's another chunk of information I can't vouch for and and would actually say is mostly BS but, there you have anyone's opinion (including my own) regarding AV receivers, it's all BS!

I'd say the current Denon line is probably the equivalent to your current Onkyo if you are in the mood for a switch in looks and menus.

I don't actually mean this to sound harsh (yeah, I know, that's what I say now!) but picking AV receivers is sort of like picking fast food burgers. Unless you're ready to get out of the habit of going through the drive by window #1 to pay and drive by window #2 to pick up your bag of cheap as they can get away with grease, you're going to be getting mostly the same thing no matter where you shop.

Lots of lines aren't even built by the "manufacturer" whose name is on the front panel. They are built on a bid process and the actual builder may build for several companies and simply put the right name on the right product. Same chassis, same machines, same people, same factory. Today it gets this bunch of components and it's called "X" and tomorrow it gets some different components and it's called "Y".

That's another practice that's been common in the AV receiver market for a few decades. Therefore, as long as you're not buying junk, they'll all be about as satisfying as any other and in another six years or so you'll get to do it all again.

Two channel. That's actually what I would recommend. Break the cycle.

HK or Marantz. If you must have surround, they're better than most IMO for not outrageous costs.

The rest? meh! Makes no difference IMO.

Good luck.


New member
Username: Rowdog

Post Number: 2
Registered: Jan-16
wow ! some food for thought ... thanx ,
your insight certainly gives some needed perspective ...
2 things stand out , i'd like to have the 2 channel simplicity and better quality sound for my music.. but the source likely offsets that considerably ...
I do like seeing/hearing the spaceships, dinosaurs and hi-speed chases !
so will look harder at the suggestions,,
(that PS was pretty cool) ...
coincidentally , my 1st sound system, 1969, was driven by Marantz !


New member
Username: Baicu

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jan-16
Ciao ragazzi. Se mi potete aiutare per favore. Mi serve il codice per il mio Becker trafic high speed Model BE 7820 serial 35027067. EC 107. Grazie infinite

New member
Username: Rowdog

Post Number: 3
Registered: Jan-16
Jan ....hi again ...

after re-reading your post it became more apparent that I could simplify my needs

though I do spend the greater portion of time listening to music , I do not sit, centered in the listening area, focused entirely on that process...the music gets turned up, I go about the day, etc.

also, as pointed out, the source is limited as well ...
though I have a fairly extensive library , I digitalized all my vinyl and cassettes, and stopped purchasing CD's 5 yrs ago.
I do however, sit centered, focused when viewing a movie and appreciate what the technology can do to improve that experience!
so the question(s) now;
as a good portion of what i'm researching is 7.1 / 7.2 anyway...
*could I add 2 wireless speakers to the current config, on a receiver that has that option? or does it need the whole speaker pkg to be wireless ?
( I figured 2 rear speakers for a movie, in the back room the rest of the time)
* do the recommendations change at all , i'm guessing in the price range mentioned, they are all as you said pretty close ...
the Denon 1200 w/ dolby atmos seems fine, but, if I read right, for ceiling speaker arrangements ?
the Marantz NR1606 looked slightly more appealing

thanx again for the input

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 18126
Registered: May-04

"as a good portion of what i'm researching is 7.1 / 7.2 anyway...
*could I add 2 wireless speakers to the current config, on a receiver that has that option? or does it need the whole speaker pkg to be wireless ?
( I figured 2 rear speakers for a movie, in the back room the rest of the time)"

Sorry, are you asking whether you can combine hardwired and wireless speakers for your surrounds? If so, yes.


New member
Username: Rowdog

Post Number: 4
Registered: Jan-16
o k thanx for all the info
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