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New member Username: MpwilliamsonRussellville, KY United States Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-11 | I've never had an upper-level turntable before and I'm finally making the jump and want it to sound as good as I can afford it to sound. The Sony SS-b3000 speakers are within my budget; but, will they sound good with the Pro-Ject Debut III turntable? Are they compatible? I'm also looking at a Sherwood RX-4109 stereo receiver. I know that just by nature of the beast, this system won't sound PERFECT but will it at least sound decent? And, between the turntables, speakers, and receiver, am I missing any essential steps to having a decent system? I plan on making a cartridge upgrade in a couple months when I have more cash. I know some people have less-than-kind opinions on the Debut III, but after extensive research, I'm pretty sure it's the best-sounding new turntable within my admittedly limited price range (looking to spend around $600 on a system). Sorry for so many questions, guys! Like I said, this is my first halfway decent turntable setup since I started collecting vinyl years ago, so I'm really excited and want to make sure I have the best system I can afford. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittStamford, Connecticut USA Post Number: 4500 Registered: May-05 | The Debut III is a great starter deck; don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I don't think there's a better deck out there for equal money. There's better, but it'll cost more money. Buy the best turntable you can afford, then upgrade everything around it. If you've only got $600 for the whole system, including turntable, it's going to be tough. That leaves you with $200 for the amplification and speakers. What components do you currently have, if any? If you've already got amplification and speakers, your best bet would be to replace one at a time - ie save a for a bit longer and put more into the amp; then save up for a bit longer and put more into the speakers. Think marathon rather than 100 yard dash. Last bit of advice - forget about Sony speakers. |
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New member Username: MpwilliamsonRussellville, KY United States Post Number: 2 Registered: Nov-11 | Thanks for the reply, Stu! I don't have anything right now but the turntable, as I'm trying to really get the most bang for my buck, so to speak. I'm trying to complete it before Christmas so I can just ask for great-sounding records for Christmas (selfish, I know). I've heard nothing but good things about the SS-b3000 speakers; care to elaborate on why they might not be my best bet? |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Canada Post Number: 3586 Registered: Jun-07 | Where are you reading your reviews on Sony speakers that claim they are good? They are not. Horrible in fact. Down right horrible. Look at other options. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 16954 Registered: May-04 | . Set up is everything in a budget system. You'll need good support systems for each component. The table and speakers will clearly react to the quality of the support they are provided, the receiver somewhat less. Read a bit about system set up here; https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/672623.html Each improvement you make to the set up will be worth the cost, especially in a budget oriented system. The Sherwood receiver is a budget model and, therefore, has a budget oriented phono section. The problem with asking for recommendations is the number of answers you'll receive. Everyone will recommend the products they would prefer to own and that isn't always a helpful response when you are first starting a system. For example, I might suggest you start with the Project table but, rather than buying a receiver, you begin with a high quality phono pre amp such as the Belari; http://www.needledoctor.com/Bellari-VP130-Tube-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35249 Use the system as a table with pre amp driving a set of headphones until you can afford better gear than a budget receiver and budget speakers. A pre owned integrated amplifier and speakers should be fairly easy to find on a site such as Audiogon for about $200 each purchase. But that probably doesn't suit your desires right now. For $100, the Sherwood is about as cheap as you can get and have a phono section built in. As Stu and Nick have suggested, I wouldn't recommend the Sony speakers either. I have heard and sold a few Sony speakers that I would recommend if they were still available but, in this case, I would stay away from a budget three way speaker. Using the available funds to build a better quality two way system is the smarter approach when you are on a tight budget. Consider instead the Pioneers which have received a few good reviews from people who should know a decent speaker; http://hometheaterreview.com/pioneer-sp-bs21-lr-bookshelf-loudspeaker-reviewed/ ... http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs41-lr-loudspeaker ... http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Pioneer+-+4%22+2-Way+Bookshelf+Speakers+(Pair)/11482 18.p?id=1218224799780&skuId=1148218 Alternately, I've heard these small Daytons driven by a budget amplifier and they have a well balanced sound that will serve a budget system well; http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-652&FTR=300-652 Either speaker will require a decent stand and some speaker cabling. Price in a pair of speaker stands; http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-767 If you can afford better quality stands, they will provide better quality sound. Where you place the speakers will have a profound effect on their performance. You cannot get the best out of a pair of speakers if they must fit on a shelf. For speaker cable go down to Home Depot and ask them to cut a piece of their 16 guage outdoor extension cable in the lengths you'll need. Alternately, Walmart still sells a wihte jacketed outdoor extension cable that works well as speaker cable. In either case, strip the insulation off the ends of the cable and use about 3/8" of bare wire into both the speakers and the receiver. Make good connections with no stray strands of copper showing. A single strand of copper condutor can result in a short circuit that will shut the system down or possibly damage the amplifier. Pay attention to the quality of the connections you make. Use only the white and black conductors of the cable, the black conductor always goes to the black connectors on the receiver and speakers. If you don't understand what I've just told you, ask the person at HD to explain how to use the cable as a speaker wire. Or come back here and we'll explain how to hook up your system. Do not set the table on anything that has a resonant noise, boxey cabinets are about the worst place for a turntable. The table needs to be on a solid, non-resonant support. Equipment racks are typically a good choice for a table but not all racks are good for tables. If the shelf you place the table on has a resonant signature, head to Target or a sporting goods store and buy a bag of tennis balls for about $10. Toss the bag under the table and tighten the draw string on the bag so the balls cannot roll around. This will be one of the most cost effective upgrades you can make to a budget turntable. Make sure the table is level. Be sure to read and use a speaker location guide to place the speakers within the room. As much as 90% of what you get from a system will be determined by the room and the placement of the speakers within the space. There should be a speaker set up suggested in the thread I linked to above. You can also insert "loudspeaker set up guide" in a search engine to get more ideas. Do not simply plop the speakers where they fit, it will inevitably be the worst spot you could have chosen for them. Stu and Nick might also have more suggestions for equipment. . |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittStamford, Connecticut USA Post Number: 4501 Registered: May-05 | As Jan said, setup/placement is just about everything. Especially with a vinyl based system. He also brought up a great point I hadn't considered - headphones. The Belari phono stage with headphones is good advice IMO. If you want a traditional receiver, research Harman Kardon. The lowest end stereo receiver sells for about $250 or so on their website. I highly doubt you'll get anything near the quality of that unit for anywhere near that price. You can connect your turntable directly to it, and use a pair of headphones in the mean time. After funds recover, you can get a good pair of speakers. I've actually heard the Pioneer speakers Jan mentioned. They're excellent for the $100 or so they're going for. They're not perfect, but they may be as close to it as is possible for that kind of money. I'm not telling you to blindly buy any of the stuff I suggested. Research it and see if it fits what you've got in mind IMO. Another great piece that goes for great prices used is the Arcam A65+. I've seen them listed on Audiogon for $250 - $300 at times. That'll take some patience to find one, but they're not that rare. They've got a great phono section and a headphone output to get you started (if you choose that route). Last piece of gear recommendation - Rega Brio 3. No remote, but a great phono stage and enough real world power to drive any reasonable speaker load to respectable levels. Audiogon usually has one or two listed. Or, instead of asking for money for records, ask for money for gear? I can't believe I'm suggesting putting the gear first (I guess there's an exception to every rule), but if you can't listen to the albums, how much good will they do? Great decorations I guess. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 16956 Registered: May-04 | . If the op is still checking for comments here, I wouldn't want to let the thread go without mentioning the T amps which are available. The Sherwood receiver is rated at 100+ watts per channel. Too many people just starting with higher quality audio make assumptions based on inaccurate information. Information about watts and speakers seems to be the most misunderstod and the most widely traded by those who know the least. In this case the common assumption is based around the higher wattage component almost always offering better quality sound. This is probably the most abused belief in audio - along with the idea that a three way speaker will always sound better than a two way speaker. Watts are relatively unimportant in home audio. Since the advent of the transistor back in the 1950's many designers have worked with the belief that watts are cheap - and they can be. But quality seldom is inexpensive. The exception to that rule would be many of the T amps which have been available since the middle of the first decade into the 2000's. You can read about the T amps and find a few links in this thread; https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/668896.html While several of the T amps offer wattage outputs that will allow virtually any speaker to be paired with the amp, the small five watt amps are what have set people's ears on end. Pairing a low wattage amplifier to a speaker requires the speaker be spec'd at a rather high sensitivity rating, 90dB is about the average for many listeners using low powered amplifiers. The higher the senstivity of the speaker the more acoustic output it will deliver from each watt provided by the amplifier. I've demonstarted to many clients that a speaker which produces 104dB with only one watt input can be overwhelmingly loud with just four watts of amplifier power. It all depends upon what the speaker does with that first watt. Of course, how many watts you might require will obviously depend upon several other factors. Your musical tastes might be for large scale bombast or your room could be overly large and your setaing position far from the speakers themself. However, the "average" listener will actually use about two watts for their normal listening level and those "average" levels are seldom higher than the upper 80dB range in most rooms. If your speakers can output 90dB with that first watt, you will likely find you need less than one watt for average listening levels. If you would consider yourself to be "average' in your volume requiements but above average in your need for quality sound reproduction, I really cannot recommend the T amps too quickly or too highly. With speakers capable of producing more than average volume levels with only one watt input. a high quality five watt amplifier can provide astoundingly good sound for very cheap dollars. There are no tuners available with the T amps should you have a desire for radio listening but cheap, decent tuners are always available pre owned for minimal investment. And you will still need that basic phono pre amp in front of the amplifier; either the Belarri or a pre amp from another manufacturer. Quality phono pre amps begin at about $100. http://www.musicdirect.com/c-533-mm-ho-mc-only.aspx http://www.elusivedisc.com/departments.asp?dept=236 http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-Store/Phono-Preamps Should you think a $30 amp cannot perform to a quality level which embarrasses many components for many times the money, simply read the thread and the links. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/reviews/209464.html T amps are clearly out of the mainstream of audio and are not for every system. But, if they fit your desires for high quality sound, you cannot do better for several times the cost in a more conventional "hifi" product. Without ever having heard the Sherwood receiver, I can still guarantee you any T amp will run rings around it in terms of quality of musical reproduction - if you pair it with appropriate speakers. . |