I recently contacted a seller on ebay who has been very kind, but he offered some advice which to me is a little questionable. I'm just going to copy/paste what he said:
quote:
There are many versions of the CM1's & CM2's & a couple versions of the CM5's. Some versions, are not worth buying, others versions are just, OK. Other versions, are almost just as good as the 800-series.
All the one's I acquire, usually come from B&W Dealers,or Locally. All the one's I acquire are the Best versions. Most that are being sold on ebay are the lesser of the other versions. and some /most Sellers just wants to get rid of the older version. But once in a while, but very seldom, the better version will appear on ebay for sale.
I know what to look for, because I've been involved with B&W speakers for over 25-years. Although, I do not disclose the details between each version. That is my trade mark. Anyone buying my B&W speakers will away's get the Best Version of any of the 600-series, CM-series, CDM-Series, 700-series, 800-series, etc. I take the guess work out between the junk version vs. the Best of all the version when someone buy's from me.
I've never heard of different "versions" within B&W models apart from maybe having different veneers or being made in China vs. England.
The only way I would assume this gentleman can assess what model is which is by the serial number on the back. Even so, it seems like differences between versions, if such differences even exist, would be negligible. I'm also skeptical since he will not reveal these differences which makes it seem like more of a marketing gimmick. Any insight?
If a particular model stays in production for many yrs, it's likely that small improvements are made. However, I would take what this guy says with a grain of salt. I certainly wouldn't buy anything from him unless you have a way to verify what he is saying with B&W as well as some reliable independent sources.
Yep. You guys are exactly right. After some discussion with Eric at B&W North America, here is the final line:
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The new CM1 was launched a few years ago and has never changed since inception.
And by extension the same goes for all other models. Saying that there are different versions is a falsity. Of course there is a difference in place of assembly as some have moved to China, but other than that they are exactly the same.
Are the different locations of manufacture using the EXACT same parts? Caps/inductors for the crossover, wiring, drivers and even the cabinet MDF and glue? If just 'same spec', then they aren't the same. Crossover caps, for which there is a pretty large literature, is one place where changing a 20mfd cap by Solen will be different than the same value Clarity.
Calling them different versions may be stretching it, but with different sourced, same 'spec' parts, they won't be the same, either.
They use the same source, from what I gather, though that's a valid point.
As indicated on the speakers themselves it states "Assembled in China" which implies the parts are still from England, but actual assembly is occurring in China. Correct me if I'm wrong, though. I'm sure if you pulled a driver and checked it, it would have a label saying made in England or something similar. Not entirely sure, though. They do a bit of mixing and matching, for example my ASW300 subwoofer's amplifier plate was made in England, but the driver itself was built in Taiwan.
In any case, I think it's rather impossible to know the differences between certain "versions" of a model if such differences even exist other than by the serial number. And to make the claim that some "versions" are bad and some are as good as the 800 series seems extreme and a ultimately is a poor selling tactic.
Several articles have been written regarding B&W's Chinese operations. A search engine should bring up at least a few. B&W had seen the numerous products sent to China to be built at low labor/environmental/regulatory costs and wished to participate in a method of construction which would open the lower end of their market to more buyers. However, they had also seen the numerous products sent to China which had been shoddily constructed with parts variability, lousy fit and finish and little to no oversight from anyone with any concept of good manufacturing principles. All too often the reputation of Chinese built electronics had proven to be true with no after the sale service available, largely due to no one taking responsibility for what had been built. Since many of these products had been farmed out to low bid contractors and possibly spread out amongst several suppliers also working on low bid, those companies which did exist when service was required pointed fingers at the other sub-contractors, nothing was resolved and the customer was highly p*ssed at the idea of owning a fairy expensive paper weight.
All too often the design of a reputable company was hijacked by the Chinese subcontractors and, before anyone realized what was happening, a new product - identical in every way other than name - was on the market at bargain basement prices as there were no "development/design" stages needed when you merely rip off another person's work.
B&W's plan was to establish a Chinese operation with direct British control. They were one of the first and certainly the largest manufacturer of audio gear to attempt such a project. British B&W managers are sent to live in China and to oversee the entire operation first hand. Everything is maintained strictly in house to keep designs from "tavelling" and to successfully track problems should they arise. Everything I've read about this factory suggests you should consider the speakers produced by the Chinese factory to be "B&W" in every way. There are no twin crossover products which would be simultaneously produced in the Chinese facility and in the British plant.
Parts are sourced just as they would for any other B&W product. Case lots are purchased in order to run one model for one period of time and another model during the next production run. While B&W does rely on suppliers for certain pieces of their speaker systems this sort of "buy enough to make 'X' number of this model" ordering reduces the expectations a certain model will ever have to be built with any part not originally spec'd for that model. B&W constructs all of their enclosures for those models fabricated in China within the factory so they are not relying on a sub-contractor for those components. To my knowledge B&W hasn't, for the last thirty or more years, used any drivers which have not been designed and built in house. This really only leaves the passive parts of the crossover to a sub-contractor. Would B&W sub a similarly spec'd cap for one from other supplier? Possibly, but highly unlikely under their business plan. Would it really matter in a budget speaker? Possibly, but again not very likely considering the average gear the speaker will be paired with. My guess would be there will be far more variability between the electronics mated to B&W's than there will be in the speakers themself. They are the sort of company that doesn't even change the supplier of screws unless there is a good reason.
These are, for B&W, their least expensive speakers coming out of this plant. I can't imagine they are selecting between Solen for one production run and Clarity for another - at any cost difference - when they are selecting parts. There is an attitude which exists within the British speaker manufacturers which holds them to a near "drop in replacement" style of fabrication. B&W has been successful largely because the "B&W house sound" is instantly identifiable and constantly repeatable. Dicking with different parts from different suppliers doesn't provide that sort of luxury to a manufacturer such as B&W. It works for the guy building four pairs of speakers a month out of his garage to sell on line. It doesn't cut it for a company like B&W.
I'd say the fella on eBay is just blowin' smoke and tootin' his own non-existent prowess. When you are competing in the audio world, a good story will often sell a product for you. I suspect there are a few buyers who prefer to think they are getting something special that no one else knows about. Possibly the world's largest selling consumer speaker manufacturer might not bother with someone like him. On the other hand, my dealings with B&W would suggest they are the sort of company that doesn't take lightly to anyone talking trash about their products.
If / When the B&W contract ends, just call it a technology transfer, THAN you can look forward to cut-price last gen B&W speakers. At first, I suspect, they'll be 80% of the original, but will improve quickly.
If the lessons are learned, and the Chinese are a terrifically adroit bunch and energetic, to boot, you may see competitive but original designs. Give it a few years.
B&W is a technology company. They build technology which moves forward from year to year. If you didn't think this year's speakers were better than last year's speakers, why would you buy this year's B&W? They don't operate like the old American companies used to where products stayed in a line for a decade or more just because they were good products.
If the Third World manufacturers begin selling a knock off of ten year old B&W technology, B&W will have moved forward with their technology in sufficient degrees to not have many real financial concerns other than how many lawyers will it take to shut everything down on the Third World knock off front.