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New member Username: MsmotoPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-10 | Just browsing the forums and wondered how the thoughts were re: ADS L810s from long ago. I am listening to a pair right now. My Quad ESL 60's burned out and I did not want to rebuild them for $3500. So I pulled out the 810's and hooked them up to what the Quads were hooked up to. No. 38 Pre-amp and No 27.5 amp by Mark Levinson. Well the ADS sound as good to me as some of the $10,000 stuff I have listened to in the high end stores. Nice clean bass, well defined, yet smooth and soft with my favorites... female sopranos. I suspect the preamp and amp driving have a lot to do with this. Maybe what they told me 25 years ago was true. You have to have the current to drive the speakers cleanly. So much for my two cents worth. Just thought I would see what folks have to say. Msmoto |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13652 Registered: Feb-05 | I haven't listened to ADS speakers in 20 + yrs but they do have a considerable following. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15655 Registered: May-04 | . The 810's had many good qualities and their demise in the US market was due mainly to distribution issues and legal battles, which affected quality of service from ADS and not the quality of the product. I would say the main knock in their day, if there was one, would be the fairly identifiable sound of ADS speakers. That's not a bad thing but just a consistent issue with many popular speakers, the Quad sound, the Magnepan sound, the BBC sound, etc. Overall, the 810's had a peculiar to ADS way of doing mids which was quite appealing to many listeners but, like most popular speakers, they were often a take it or leave it sound. You either "got" the ADS sound or you moved to something different. For a fairly large sealed enclosure system the ADS always IMO seemed to lack deep bass making up for that by goosing the midbass a bit ala LS3/5a's. My recollection of the ADS was a speaker that required lots of power and plenty of current delivery - not something many '80's amps did well without becoming harsh and "analyitcal" - but they were not a high power handling speaker, somewhat like the Quads and the Dalhquists of similar vintage. That big (4"?) dome midrange gave the speakers wide dispersion which can be either a blessing or a curse depending on the room and the set up possibilities. With a driver layout unlike any today they are hardly "electrostatic" in nature but always a recommended speaker even long after the distributors disappeared leaving many dealers holding the bag. They preferred a short, stable stand with a bit of tiltback if I remember correctly. Time and phase coherence came several years after the 810's. They sounded like "three way speakers" to me in every audition I experienced. Overall, I would say speaker design has come a long way since the 810's thanks to computer modelling and other than bass extension by way of enclosure volume the 810's can be bettered in many ways by today's better bookshelf systems. But a good vintage speaker with musical qualities can always be a pleasure to hear again. . |
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New member Username: MsmotoPost Number: 2 Registered: Dec-10 | I very much appreciate the input from above. And agree that the ADS does well with the Levinson 27.5 Amp and one inch cables connecting them. Much better than originally when driven by an older MacIntosh Receiver which did not have as much punch. These are in the corner of a 20 foot by 46 foot room and the listening position is about 10 feet in front of them at a 45 degree angle to the walls. Strange, but because of some other intrusions into the room, this produces an interesting sound stage with some recordings. No question about goosing the mid bass, and with this one totally misses the lack of really deep bass. But the experience is fairly pleasing, especially when one comes from Quads mounted on the big Finnish Subs. Nothing has every done for the voice what a Quad does in my experience. But, I must qualify that. At 68 I may be half deaf! So, if there are any specific small speakers which folks would be willing to suggest by name, I would love to hear about them. I have a large motorhome which needs an entire system. My thanks to all of you. Msmoto |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13655 Registered: Feb-05 | Spendor LS3/5SE or R for a space where you can't get them into open space and the Harbeth P3ESR where you have some distance from walls. Keeping in mind that both perform best in small to medium rooms. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15656 Registered: May-04 | . I tend to agree with your opinion of the Quad's midrange, when driven properly, it is singular in its fidelity, quality and power to draw the listener into the music. My favorite speaker with very few qualms. Much of the appeal of the Quad sound IMO comes from the midrange, again, you either "got" the Quad mids or you left thinking there wasn't much else to discuss and headed for the big Infinities. For the most part though, the Quad mids are British mids and most of the BBC cloned speakers would be a start on regaining that quality. Spendor and Harbeth are the cloest you'll come to that BBC sound for the room size you have. I would place Harbeth as the more desirable for your room as the larger Spendors tend to be a bit too "American" IMO. Even the current line of Quad dynamic driver speakers are unfortunately too Americanized. The Harbeths don't come cheap however; http://stereophile.com/content/harbeth-m401-loudspeaker. For the same coherence through the entire frequency range as the Quads you should investigate a single driver, full range system. I would tell you much of the Quad mids came from the lack of a crossover betweeen disparate drivers mixing tonal qualities in the sensitive mids. I'll never own Quads due to space restrictions - and I don't care for most of the amps the new Quads require; maybe, one day, a pair of 57's - but my other ideal speaker is the Lowther. Bob Brines does a Lowther system that I think you might be happy with; http://brinesacoustics.com/ He could advise you on which, if any, of his speakers would suit your space. You might also try a Zu; http://stereophile.com/content/zu-essence-loudspeaker My final recommendation isn't IMO well suited to your amplifiers. I would audition a pair of Audio Note systems; http://stereophile.com/content/audio-note-e-lexus-signature-loudspeaker Without knowing more about your tastes that's about as much as I can suggest. If you place music above audio, then most of what Art Dudley at Stereophile likes will probably please you though it might not like your amplifiers. If you prize a more "vivid" presentation with lots of information, then check out JA's reviews. There are also a wealth of internet only speaker companies today, too many to even start recommending. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15657 Registered: May-04 | . You might also give the current Maneplanar line a listen. The Quad vs Maneplanar crowds seldom mixed in the past with each camp giving the other grudging respect but no sales. Magneplanar has changed their sound somewhat over the years as new materials and better computer modelling have become available. The panels will all have similar traits and it's possible the current line up will prove more like your old Quads than you would expect. Martin Logans are "the other" electrostat which have become popular over the last twenty years. They're worth a listen if you have a dealer reasonably close. . . |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1940 Registered: Oct-07 | The 'baby' Magnepan is $600 mailorder. You have them on 30 or 60 day approval, than, for the remainder of a year, can trade UP in the line at full-credit. All Magnepans sound enough alike that going upline simply buys you more of pretty much the same thing. Several factors have changed the Magnepan sound over the years, but more evolution than revolution. First, the true ribbon tweeter. Now, the mylar part of the panel is much thinner than 1st gen panels. Highs are therefore more extended. Quasi-ribbon. Wire on the panel has been replaced by a flat 'ribbon'. Sticks better and some like the sound better. The mylar is now facing the listener. Back in the mid '90s, Magnepan swapped sides. My panels have been rotated in place to match original issue. I now listen to the 'pole piece' side. Careful setup and adjustment yield great benefits...room permitting. The DIY crowd love Magnepan, too. A seeming unending stream of mods and upgrades are available to buy or fabricate yourself. |
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New member Username: MsmotoPost Number: 3 Registered: Dec-10 | You guys are great. I am very much appreciative of your input. My plans are to move into my motorhome full time, out of the house and 22 acres I am in now, build a smaller house with a very large garage, but spend eight months or so in the motorhome. I have torn out the motorhomes original junk, and installed a couple of Bose bookshelf speakers I had around the house which gave me about two orders of magnitude improvement right away. I have seen the Brine speakers online which look like they could be installed in a motorhome and really sound great with low power. I may stop by and speak to the man himself and discuss the install and what he may wish to do to improve the overall result. The Martin-Logans have never impressed me as my ear always heard some sort of metallic or sharp sound from them rather then the clear clean sound of the Quads. My guess is the Brines will sound as close to the Quads in a small package as I can find. Thank you so much. If anyone likes photos or meditations... my website is www.fantinesvoice.com Msmoto |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1941 Registered: Oct-07 | For the motorhome, I'd be talking to either marine (boat) guys or somebody who knows Car Audio. Are the ADS speakers the same as 'ADS Braun'? The reason I ask, is I heard the L1020 or L1030 'TriAmp' speaker way back when..... I don't know how preamp and crossover were handled, but these were the real deal.... I remember being impressed with the sound AND the price, being a very expensive speaker for my financial situation. The good news is the 100 watts of amp per speaker.....I think something like 50/35/15 for lo/mid/hi. |
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Gold Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 1001 Registered: Oct-10 | Best Buy carries Martin Logans. I found that MLs sound good at high volumes, once I'm far enough away to be comfortable. Once they get below 50 watts each, I find the sound goes flat. The salesman cautiously nodded. |
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New member Username: MsmotoNorth Carolina USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Dec-10 | These ADS were manufactured by Analog & Digital Systems in Wilmington, MA. No connection noted on the speaker of any Braun relatives. And as I said, the Martin Logans have never really found a way into my heart. I am anxious to get to Alabama and listen to some Brine speakers if he has some to listen to. Msmoto |
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Gold Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 1035 Registered: Oct-10 | MLs would be favs of mine if they sounded as good at low and moderate volumes as they do at high volumes. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15658 Registered: May-04 | . If I remember correctly - which is how just about any story of ADS/Braun begins, ADS (Analog & Digital Systems) was the American importer's company label. Braun was the original German company which built the raw drivers and to some extent had a small, popular line of (fairly conventional) Braun speakers, tape decks and amplifiers for sale in Europe. I suppose the most common link to the ADS/Braun line was a Dr. Gunther who wished to import the products and travelled around to dealers trying to stir interest in the late 1970's when Germany was not yet on the US audiophile map beyond Dual (from the Black Forest area) and a by then less well known Blaupunkt. (Studer and Revox were both Swiss companies distributed originally through German lines.) Eventually, enough dealers signed on to a commitment and Gunther established ADS as the "manufacturer" of the speakers in the US. This was fair at the time as many companies were using drivers sourced from various manufacturers around the world and subsequently designing and building their own systems with either off the shelf drivers or custom modified drivers from a larger company. The original Boston Acoustics line came down in lineage from the KHL/Advent company but sourced their midrange and tweeter from Vifa and Seas while the woofers were manufactured in house but due to time restrictions on the company launch the A200's original woofer's ceramic magnet was charged at the AR factory in Cambridge, Mass. A largely similar story exists around EPI and the original Genesis line from Cambridge where nepotism in speaker design was common place amongst the numerous MIT students who had worked with Vilchur or Kloss or one of their students/business associates. The earliest Thiel speakers used drivers sourced from Vifa, Seas and Dynaudio as off the shelf components. KEF and Celestion were popular drivers for many companies as they represented a level of performance a small company could not accomplish on a small business budget. Memory says early Infinity's used many KEF drivers as the B139 oval woofer was a common sight in numerous speakers branded other than KEF. As most of these small speaker companies were unable to produce cabinets in quantity, another shop built enclosures and the speaker manufactuer might only be designing a crossover and performing final assembly of the pieces making the distinction between designer and assembler a sometimes thin line. Shipping cartons obviously came from yet another source. The same system of re-engineering off the shelf drivers still exists today for many speaker companies. From using strictly off the shelf drivers the next step was for a company to grow successful enough to have a company such as Dynaudio take one of their stock drivers and modify it to the designer's requests. Finally, a company would begin to design and build their own drivers in house and to their own specifications which represented the pinnacle of success in many cases. For Thiel "success" came when they had their own driver manufacturing facilities, a CNC cutter for cabinet construction and finally their own custom carton manufacturing. Other than crossover components Thiel was building their speakers from the ground up and they were responsible for 95% of what went into their products. Back to ADS, Gunther hired a designer (Michael Kelly?) to build finished speakers around the Braun drivers. Another company built cabinets here in the US to ADS' specifications. Kelly managed some fairly industrious and unique designs for ADS which drew significant attention to the ADS line. As the ADS line grew in stature and sales, Braun took notice and thought they could do just as well or better under their own name by trading on the popularity, reputation and success of the ADS line. The problems started with the issue of Braun having to import entire speaker systems which meant fairly heavy cabinets were being shipped across the sea incurring added expense not seen in the ADS line who had only been shipping raw drivers. ADS and Braun existed for a time as distinct lines with only passing similarities yet in discrete dealerships which led to many conflicts of interest and many awkward questions for everyone concerned. The Braun answer to this pricing issue was to cut off ADS's access to many their most successful drivers. Suddenly ADS was in danger of being put out of business without a product line along with not having any back up drivers for repairs. Promises to dealers were being broken on a daily schedule as both revenues and resources dried up. Many of Kelly's designs were difficult to drive amd required high power yet the Braun drivers were not meant for high power handling. This led to numerous repairs being done by dealers. Day by day dealer's repair facilties were stacking full of broken ADS speakers waiting for parts that never came. My recollection is of a short compromise where ADS/Braun speakers existed as one line but Braun soon found themself under commitment to repair existing ADS/Kelly designed speakers while not having the benefit of using all of Kelly's designs - many of which Braun disapproved of due to their reliability issues and their not being "perfect" examples of Braun design skills (which were not of the type desired by the average US audiophile of the day). New dealers had been established for the ADS/Braun line separate from the original ADS and Braun dealerships, many original ADS dealers were left out in the cold without any factory backup and new Braun dealers were expected to use their own resources to fulfill ADS's commitments to parts and service. Court battles quickly and seemingly endlessly ensued. Eventually ADS was subsumed and then ceased to exist as a distinct company. Braun speakers went on in the US for a few years without most of the innovation of the ADS/Kelly designs and eventually faded ingloriously from the US market. Memories from customers ranging from fond to highly PO'd and generally hard feelings from dealers who stuck it out too long or hoped to make a quick buck off someone else's efforts were all that were left. That's my recollection of the story - which admittedly might have some factual errors. I never sold the ADS or Braun lines and the story I know has been related (at least) third hand. However, the commonality of such stories through the '60's-80's is legend in high end audio. The short success of a good designer or an ardent audiophile turned "manufacturer" was often followed by their company being destroyed from outside forces due to their poor skills and talents as business people. One of the most interesting stories IMO is that of Dayton/Wright who produced the first real high end pre amplifier I ever owned; http://www.dayton-wright.com/index.shtml Click the "History and Background" tab for more particulars including a look at one of the few electrostats which bettered the Quad IMO. For more background, check this link; http://www.dayton-wright.com/LINKS-DW.html for a few more interesting links including one for The Lowther Club of Norway and a view of some of the most memorable speakers ever built - the JBL Paragon is still a favorite which ranks with the Quad 57's, stacked (16 drivers in all) Bozak Concert Grands and Double Advents as a revelation when first experienced. All in all, an interesting story of a very innovative company well ahead of its time and a journey down memory lane for many of us; http://www.audioclassics.com/detail.php3?detail=XG10&nav=cat . |
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New member Username: MsmotoNorth Carolina USA Post Number: 5 Registered: Dec-10 | I am flattered that you all have given so much time to this topic. It reminded me of a New York experience, I believe in the early to mid 80's when I managed an invitation to the Cello showroom in Manhattan. Up the elevator into the room, sit down and see the enormous screen with the rolling carts in front with control equipment on them. The speakers which as I remember were about eight feet tall with something like 10 or more drivers. And the state of the art "line doubler" to improve the TV definition. For its time, very impressive. At $250,000 installed or some crazy figure like that it should have been. Today my guess is one could have far more quality in all areas for less than 10% of this price. The good news is they let me out without my purchasing anything. Msmoto |
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New member Username: CavmanPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-11 | Hello ADS fans and fellow audio addicts. I want you all to know the effect your words can have on people. Please let me share a short history which I have come to learn is not unique. Having been first 'turned on" to great sounds it in Vietnam, (11th Cav. 68-69) then buying and shipping my system home I allowed it and my absolute love of audio to slip away over the years. I was busy earning a living and raising my family, Tragically the beautiful young woman I married developed an ever worsening, incurable disease that forbade all audio being played louder than a whisper in her presence. This coupled with an absolute intolerance of seeing me happily listening to anything but her,drove audio from my life and nearly murdered my love of it. Miraculously last year, my family grown and gone,my wife off in a new relationship with her church, I found myself depressed and alone. So out of desperation I searched my memory for joy and vaguely remembered Audio. I started listening to music again. Upon awakening I found myself in a room full of "new" tiny speakers (no need to name them, they all suck)forced upon me when I submissively bought a television that cost more than most of the cars I have owned. When I cranked them to volumes an old deaf vet could hear, the music sounded like confused noise. Remembering what I listened to forty years ago I shut the mess off and started looking to replace my old gear. Hello! it is everywhere! Not only did I replace my gear but I started joyfuly collecting gear that I could only dream about years ago. Enter ADS. I have collected a dozen sets of speakers and love them all. I have receivers and amps that can drive my 16ohm Maggies,my Advents, 99a's,Sansui's, Boston Acoustics,Snells,and Infinity's. Happy I was. Then I stumbled upon another addict with a houseful of wonders himself. He graciously let me listen to his Dahlquists, Mac's, etc..Taking pity upon hearing my story and seeing my huge gap in knowledge he let me listen to his "favorite" speakers. He took me back to his private listening room and turned on an old Yamaha receiver hooked to a pair of ADS L710's .and....... I was "taken". "Taken" happens rarely to addicts. We are never unhappy listening to audio. Disappointed is as bad as it ever gets for us. But "taken" is spiritual and rare. Returning home, listening to my stuff I began to doubt my ears, telling myself that it was probably due to the holiday buzz I had obtained the moment I realized I didn't have to listen to lousy whispered music Christmas morning. nor suffer through another of my wife's choirs. That the anticipation of celebrating with Jimmy Page at decibels that would send her screaming into the street the 25th had me giddy. I nearly blew off the experience but decided to read what was written about ADS. Your comments assuaged all doubt and I began my search of the country. Now the happy ending. My L710's came this week! Words fail so let me say THANK YOU! for your thoughts. Please stay "taken" with your gear, cause as we used to say it will "save your behind" |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13989 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks for sharing, Cavman. Keep rockin'! |
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New member Username: MsmotoNorth Carolina USA Post Number: 6 Registered: Dec-10 | Hi Guys, I guess I am really naive, but what is the difference between the L-710 and L-810 ADS speakers? Thanks |
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New member Username: CavmanPost Number: 2 Registered: Feb-11 | ADS 710's vs 810's. Personally I have no idea since I haven't heard any 810's. While hunting my 710's I read a lengthy debate on AK that seemed to suggest 810's have more mid range and can be bass heavy. Since I was after 710's I never considered 810's. I learned long ago that a higher number does not equal better and in fact you might be comparing apples to oranges so the 810's might as well have been another brand. I am a little reluctant to post this since you may own 810's. It is all in the way they sound to you. One guy said you had to be careful using low WPC Marantz receivers. Claimed they wouldn't push 4 or 6 ohm ADS speakers. Not the case, since mine happened to be hooked up to a dinky Marantz 2215b and sound awesome. AS for the rest of it,every speaker sounds different hooked up to different receivers so opinions are like noses. Good luck |
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New member Username: JennifoPost Number: 1 Registered: Sep-11 | Hi All, I'm not an audio expert of any sort -- so I'm hoping for some advice. I inherited a pair of ADS L 810 speakers from my uncle, they are connected to a a nice Nakamichi receiver. I know they were probably top of the line once upon a time. There are also 2 Yamaha NX-GX50 bookshelf speakers connected to the system. My question is this -- I'm involved with a community fund raiser -- we have zero budget, and the guy who has usually volunteered his sound system to us is no longer available to do so. The fund raiser involves showing locally made amateur films on an outdoor screen in the park. About 150-200 people come and sit in the park and watch the films. Will these speakers put out enough sound for a crowd of 200 to hear the film audio in the park? Obviously they aren't made for that sort of job, but in a pinch, would they work? We're taking them out for a trial run on Saturday, but I'd appreciate any advice you can give. We really can't afford the price of renting a sound system, so we're looking at this to see if it is a feasible option. What is your opinion on speaker cable, if we end up spacing the speakers about 20 feet from the receiver? Is there risk of blowing out the speaker if we turn them up loud? Any info would be greatly appreciated! I'm learning a lot from some internet research, but would love some specific advice to this situation. thanks |
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New member Username: MsmotoNorth Carolina USA Post Number: 7 Registered: Dec-10 | My guess is the amplifier will clip if pushed to high and this may blow the tweeters in the L810's. Once you have done this, it may also be a problem to find the replacement parts. With the age of these speakers, some degree of restraint and care must be used. And the rather significant distortion at mid bass, most likely due to resonance issues in the cabinet, may increase if driven hard, even to the point of damage. Wouldn't do it if they were my speakers. Mine are being driven by an amp that most likely will not clip under any circumstances, yet still would not play extremely loud. Just my thoughts. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 16731 Registered: May-04 | . The ADS are not suited for the task you plan. They are intended for a relatively smal room where the speakers benefit from the reinforcement provided by the enclosure of the space. You need speakers with more directional drivers and higher electrical sensitivity, typically a horn loaded midrange/tweeter at least and 90-95dB with one watt in. The ADS will be pushing the amplifier into clipping if you attempt to fill a large space which lacks those directionality reinforcements. Ask the gentleman who previously donated equipment which speakers he was using and look into renting a duplicate pair. You can either invest the funds now and do the job right or you can use the ADS, blow them up during the presentation and then invest the funds to have them repaired. Any 16 guage cable will suffice as speaker cabling. A few dollars spent at the home improvement store will get you set up. . |
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New member Username: LautsprecherPost Number: 1 Registered: Sep-11 | 'Staying with ADS speakers, with a different issue. My pair still sounds fine--refurbished some years ago--but the old-fashioned speaker posts need replacement. As someone who has these from college days 30 years ago, I am clueless now. Are these replaceable?-- I see no ready access. Can someone recommend a service shop in Long Island or Westchester NY? What would reparir cost. Thanks. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 16733 Registered: May-04 | . Try contacting Parts Express; http://www.parts-express.com/index.cfm |
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New member Username: RaymundoderayUnited States Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-11 | Dear James, Two other sources: Richard So at http://www.adsspeakersservice.com/ Vince at http://www.audioproz.com/ Plus, I may have one available next week because I am initiating a repair and am purchasing some parts. Send me a PM. R. |
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New member Username: CowpenPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-12 | needing some advice on ADS L810s one speaker is missing the big 4''? dome midrange speaker, very heavy magnet, ADS sticker on the one i have. does anyone have a thought on what i might replace the dome midranges with to hopefully keep the same sound quality. thanks for any ideas. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 17146 Registered: May-04 | . Dome mids are about as plentiful today as would be a selection of ElCassettes. Should you find a replacement, say, at either PartsExpress or Madisound, you are almost certain to change the overall character of your speakers. This should, then, necessitate the replacement of both drivers, left and right channel, in each speaker cabinet. Since it's uncertain ADS didn't over time change their specs for the midrange driver, should you find one for sale, I would still suggest you'll be better off if you replace both drivers. At the very least, if you find a driver on sale on eBay or the equivalent, make certain the cabinet the drivers originated from are as close as possible to the serial numbers of your own speakers. . |
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New member Username: CowpenPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-12 | Thanks for your input Jan. I had to research ELcaset, I guess what your saying is i might be better off replacing the domes with some newer technology drivers. ie cone mid range, not domes. Any suggestions on replacement mids. I did find a ads mid dome for the l810 for $90 plus shipping. i would check serial #. I'm thinking this fix might be questionable. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 17147 Registered: May-04 | . I don't have any specifics when it comes to replacement drivers. Either PartsExpress or Madisound should be able to assist you in a selection. |