hi guys im a new member i have read many of the info you guys say in forums and i find it very useful. but i havent found an answer to my questions. I'm looking at building my home audio system. I am experienced with home audio, im learning more and more everyday. I have done the whole car audio thing, i had my competition system that had absolutely rediculous bass but also had the sound quality to back it up. Right now for my house i have just a basic htib onkyo system with a 15 in sub but im looking to upgrade. My main focus is to build the best sound quality system in my budget. I have a basic onkyo reciever right now that i like alot and will want to keep for a while, im just looking to upgrade the speakers. I am looking for either bookshelf or floorstanding speakers. I am looking for the best speakers for 100% music listening. I rarely watch movies so i dont care about having the best 5.1 i just want the best 2.1 system. Space is no issue for me. But im confused at whether to buy bookshelf or floorstanding speakers. Some say bookshelf have better sound quality and imaging, and some say floorstanding are better and have a "fuller" sound. can someone give me some recommendations? I have about a $400 dollar budget at the moment and i just want 2 speakers used or new it doesnt matter. I have heard klipsch and absolutely love their sound but they are a bit expensive, what other speakers would you guys recommend? I have had my eye on the premier acoustic pa-8f towers lately. Is there something better than those? i have not heard them though. And there are no real speaker distributors around here to listen to other brands. I'm not worried about bass i can leave my crossover set at 80 hz. I listen to hip hop and r&b for the most part (i know you guys probably dont like that music) and i also like to listen to classic rock. So basically i just want the best bang for the buck.
any advice? any opinions? I have done alot of research online, but all i can do is read reviews as i havent heard any of the speakers. I just want the best speakers for sound quality. bookshelf or tower or even satelite if you feel a pair might be that good. I just dont know what to get. I like the pa 8-f thats my number 1 right now unless i can get some klipsch rb-61's or better. But i also have read very good things about the klipsch quintet iii's and the energy take classic system. But i have heard the klipsch f-3s and i really liked them alot but everyone says the reference series is better so i would rather go with that. and i also have heard the klipsch quintet's and they in no way could compare to the f-3s in music. the f-3s just had a "fuller" sound that i absolutely loved so should i completely take satelites out of the picture? But the reciever i listened to the speakers on was horrible and had way to many wires running from it to other speakers which i know had to kill the sound quality. I have looked for the best bookshelf under 200 and many people have recommended the paradigm atoms. would that be a good choice? but if i have a budget of 400 just for speakers i know i could do better. Please any advice guys. much appreciated thanks
I would lean towards buying something you have already heard, and liked, over something you havn't heard....but you had read a good review on. If you you've found something that you really liked but couldn't afford, check the used market. There is also a thread here in the speaker section related to speaker bargains. I'd advise reading it, and the other threads here to perhaps get some other ideas/opinions.
Well what sounds good with klipsch? Or do i just have the wrong idea that klipsch is a good company? I havent really been able to listen to home audio systems besides the klipsch f-3s and bose systems. And theres no way im going to waste money on bose. So what should i go with? I have no problem buying used, its just like i said i wont be able to hear what im going to buy, i live in a small town with no home audio shops. But i have read very good reviews on energy speakers, klipsch speakers,paradigm, and b&w. and a few others. So is a floorstanding going to sound best for what i want in sound or bookshelf? Or how about even the energy take classics? thanks guy i appreciate the help
the best bet is to go out and listen... we can tell you what we feel does not work well together (most of it from personal experience, but we still do not know what sound you prefer in the end.
All companies that you listed (except Bose) are known for being good , reputable companies who have been in business for quite some time.
But from personal experience, pairing klipsch with onkyo is going to have an end result of listener fatigue (IE: headache).
well the only thing is for me to go out and listen is going to require at least 4-5 hours of driving.. and if i do that i still cant guarantee that i would be able to listen to all the speakers i wanted to or that they would be set up nicely in a room to really compare and contrast. You know what i mean? I only want to spend 400 at the most. Now i could see if i was looking for a $5000 system then it would be a good idea to listen first. I listen to hip hop r&b and classic rock. I love drums, I play the drums so i would want something that can satisfy my ears to that. Im looking for just 100% music. I do like the way my onkyo system sounds but i just want to enhance that sound. Its very easy for me to hear the flaws of my system. As i have played and still play instruments, i cant help but notice every minor flaw of the speakers and it drives me crazy listening to music. Im thinking a bookshelf will be my best bet, since im guessing you pay more for a tower for the build and the ability to produce more bass.
By what you say here I have several bit of info that I hope you will take to heart.
First thing, and most important is that if you are a critical listener why spend your money on something you know you won't be happy with? That doesn't make any sense at all! I am sure you must have learned a ton about what works and especially what doesn't while putting your car system together. Save your money up and make some time to go audition speakers cutting out all of the wasted money.
How about the car guys you used to compete against? What do they like in their homes? What do your friends listen to at home? There are many ways to get a listen prior to purchase.
To me finding speakers at the $500.00 and below price point as a somewhat critical listener is a LOT tougher than at the $5000.00 price point.
If you truly HAVE to shoot in the dark, look for a company that would easily take returns!!!
there are very good to excellent speakers at the $500 price point,
KEF, PSB, Paradigm, Jamo, Magnepan, and B&W all have speakers around that price point that can satisfy just about any listener. But, you have to know what compromises you need to make. Magnepan MMG's are not going to be everybody's cup of tea. Also, in this price point the best bet is almost always going to be a standmount.
FWIW, I am a fairly critical listener and my speakers were just north of 600 new. It was the associated equipment that made the sound whole and rich.
Absolutely correct Gavin, I certainly didn't mean to imply that there aren't great speakers for $500.00, on the contrary I know for sure there are but my point is that finding speakers that you can be really happy with for an extended time without the auditions (learning what to compromise on) is a shot in the dark!
well i dont compete anymore.. but i know what companies i do like from car audio. i do like dls alot, mb quart, focal and i know all of them also make home audio. but i was never into home audio when i competed so i never got a chance to talk about that with other guys. and im young only 20 and in college and none of my friends really get into that, they just have the casual set up in their car, but nothing high end, and they live in dorms so it would be a waste anyways. I have my own house so thats why i wanted to get into the home audio. I didnt really get into the sound quality until about a year ago, when i really started to appreciate it. i do remember being younger maybe like 5 yrs ago and i did get to listen to a nice b&w system but i cant really remember the sound of it. but i know my dad likes b&w alot. but the reason i cant really spend more than $400 is because i am a college student with my house and all the bills. its hard to save up money to buy a nice system, but i just want to upgrade from what i have now, that will satisfy me more for a few yrs.
what do you have gavin if you dont mind me asking? and what components to you use to enhance the sound? Im not sure what to buy to help. i have researched equalizers but it seems to be a waste of money as people say its not good to try to boost frequencies, and if you do it can damage the reciever as it draws more power for every 3db boost.. i can see the advantages as to create a flat sound, but what would be a good eq to do that? and im sure its going to have a nice pricetag behind it to do that so right now my focus is just to get better quality speakers. when i do listen to music i do so on my ps3 which i have connected with an optical which sounds good but i just want a better fuller sound.
right now i just use my dls car speakers in stereo to try to satisfy me until i do upgrade. thanks guys for helping me out. sorry i dont mean to drag this out, but i really do appreciate the advice and i want to learn as much as possible. I may want to run my own home audio shop in the future so learning as much as i can now can only help me out
Jim, I totally agree now that I get what you meant :-)
and I don't use any components to "enhance the sound" per say. What I meant was that I have excellent front end components that I matched to my speakers through hours of auditioning to get the best possible sound for my needs. I do not use tone controls.
my speakers are: KEF iq3 my integrated amp is: Marantz PM-7001 my CD player is: Marantz SA-8001
and this I determined was the setup that, price for performance, would be able to satisfy my needs. I have had this exact setup for over a year and have no desire to change it right now. I listened to different speaker/amp/CDP combos and this one sounded more to my ears like real music (and to my preference) than the others.
If you truly are serious, that is what you need to do. You need to go out and listen. Listen and find something that you can live with for the long haul. Otherwise it is money wasted.
The reason why I keep saying this is because I have personally paired klipsch with onkyo when I first started in this hobby when I was 14-15ish and it didn't sound that great. I had the ksb series speakers and then switched them out for the excellent RB-5 speakers. I got rid of them because I assumed the issue was with the speakers, and not the receiver. IMHO, the RB-5 was one of the best sounding speakers in the reference line once I got to hear it properly set up. I was yissed at myself for letting them go.
Low end onkyo equipment has a reputation for being grainy. Think of a sandpaper-ish sound to the upper midrange and treble. Pairing that with revealing speakers will let you hear it plain as day. You won't like it once you hear it.
Once you upgrade the speakers, be prepared to upgrade the electronics in the not to distant future. The speakers' increased clarity and resolution will expose your receiver and source for what they are. Lesser speakers will do a good job of masking things.
With that being said, you said you like Focal's car speakers. Focal makes some excellent bookshelves for around your price - the Chorus 705 V ($500). Don't expect huge SPLs or thunderous bass, but you'll get great music at realistic sound levels.
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/80434
The other brands mentioned are very good too. I threw the Focals out there because you said you've heard their speakers before. I'd go with something I know and like before taking the chance on something I don't know about. If you had a bit more money and could afford to buy and sell stuff without any problems, I'd make other suggestions, but the Focal suggestion would still be there.
After the speaker upgrade, save some money and look into getting an integrated amp. The NAD 326 BEE is a great integrated and not terribly expensive. There are many others too. Follow up with a good source - CD player or DAC, and you can have a great system at a very reasonable price. Just be patient and buy things one at a time. Used or refurbished gear can save you a good amount of money and/or get a higher level piece of equipment.
When ordering online, make sure the store has a good return policy. Also look in their clearence and demo sections. Music Direct and Audio Advisor are two sites that have a good selection of new gear at a lot of different price points, and a lot of specials. They also have very knowledgable sales people who can help you out, and good return policies.
Audiogon is a great place for used gear, and Spearit Sound is a great place for refurbished, new, and used gear.
There are a lot of things you can do to increase sound quality that cost very little if any money - listening to uncompressed music, proper speaker and subwoofer placement, proper adjustments on the electronics, and so on.
Also, you usually get more for your money with bookshelves than towers. Towers have more cabinet material and usually more drivers. More materials means more cost. A $500 bookshelf will usually have better drivers and cabinets than a $500 tower. There are exceptions of course.
ok im starting to really get it. so an integrated amp would really help to push speakers and make them sound great. so if i did get some klipsch lets say rb-61s and put them on an integrated amp will that work? or will my onkyo still have control of the overal sound. and i definitely have to agree with you gavin, when i use my dls speakers in my car they sound absolutely wonderful! man i love the way the sound, they are so clean and crisp, i just cant help but to drive slow or just sit in my driveway listening to them, but with my reciever they sound decent. they deliver the highs really nice, but the mids sound absolutely horrible, it sounds like i have cheap speakers.
and also with a cd player does that really help? I mean right now i buy regular cds and rip them to my ps3 in aac format at 320 kbps.. is there something else i could do? and like i said i am using an optical for the ps3
and yes i really like focal and i have looked into those exact speakers you mentioned. i was just wondering though because of the name if they were just overpriced.. I know focal has the quality but i do know with their name they use that as an advantage to have higher prices. and since i never see anyone talk about them i just believed it to be true. but if you say they are worth the money that is probably what i will get.
before i was thinking about the premier acoustic pa-8f i would buy them from sound distributors for about $400 and i had them at the top of my list because there is a forum where people have said great things about them, and said they are basically a good product without a good name, hence the low cost of them. where can i find those focals for a low price? they sound like exactly what i want, i dont need huge spls or crazy bass, they will just be crossed over at 80 hz. i just want the best mids and highs as possible. I have a 15 in sub right now to handle the bass but im gonna build my own sub/amp combo in the future. im excited to do it, i cant wait to hear it when im done thanks guys this really is helping me out.
If you want the best quality possible but only have $400 to spend then you may as well buy something used from Audiogon. That's all the more so because you are not planning to audition the speakers first, which is probably the main issue with buying online. If you see something that catches your eye then you can search for some reviews online, but of course no matter what you choose it's going to be a bit of a crapshoot. Persoanlly I don't think I'd buy a speaker that is rated less than 9/10 in terms of it's condition.
The only issue with Audiogon is if you want to return the speaker you are probably out of luck. Depends on the seller I guess. You'd be on the hook for shipping both ways though. Whereas, if you buy from a store you generally can do a return. Something to consider.
The Focal 700 series speakers are definitely worth their cost IMO. Everyone's ears and wallets are different though. Read a few reviews of them. They're also pretty easy to drive, so your receiver shouldn't have too many problems.
An integrated amp won't attach to your receiver, it'll replace it. They're more or less stripped down receivers without all the bells and whistles - no radio tuner, electronic controls, etc. Just a few inputs, volume control, and amplification. Everything you need, and almost nothing you don't. Your money is spent on quality stuff rather than a bunch of stuff thrown together.
Rip your CDs at full bandwidth. mp3 compromises the sound. Its not a subtle difference, especially if you're using speakers like the Focals.
An intergated amp most likely won't have a built in DAC, so you'd need an external one. They can be had at a variety of prices and sound quality levels. They should all improve on your receiver's DAC pretty easily. If you're listening to mp3s, the differences won't be as appearent.
That stuff is for down the road. Start with a good pair of speakers, save a few bucks, then add the next piece IMO.
well i see some nice ones on audiogon for a total of like $420 i would like to get them but im having money issues at the moment but i should be getting some tax money soon and i will try my best to get them. so basically an integrated amp is going to give me better sound for the money but no fm tuner? so how could i work it to listen to the radio? I understand radio has horrible sound quality but when i have friends over on the weekend we like to listen to the radio, its not like they appreciate the sound quality lol they just like the music and the bass. and do integrated amps power just 2 speakers? i guess i will do some research instead of asking you guys to tell me all the specs about them
also if i dont get an integrated amp for a while will those focals sound good on my reciever? or will they still lack the mids and highs? i havent ever had a chance to hook up any towers to my reciever yet..
maybe i can find a friend that has some cheap towers i can hook up real quick just to see what it would sound like
Integrated amps are usually 2 channels. I assumed 2 channel because you said 100% music. Very little music is mixed in surround. Your receiver may put out 5 channels of music, but its altering the signal to get it.
2 good channels in front of you are far better than 5 mediocre at best channels all around you. Same could be said for 2 good channels of power are better than 5 mediocre ones, and 2 good speakers are better than 5 mediocre ones.
If you really want great music, 2 channel is the way to go. Especially if you're short on funds. The 2 channel system can also do a very good job with TV and movies. Same logic applies - 2 good channels are better than 5 mediocre ones.
If you need radio, you can get a 2 channel receiver for a good price. You may be able to use your current receiver's tuner into an integrated amp or get a seperate tuner for pretty cheap. If you need an all in one box solution, NAD, Outlaw, and Marantz (among others) make good 2 channel receivers that can be found on Audiogon or other places for a good price.
Sorry if I'm overwhelming you and making you think you need to buy a million things to have good sound. You don't, and it doesn't have to cost too much.
The Focals should sound better than what you've got now. It depends on the receiver and ripping quality. But as I was saying before, the better speakers will show you more flaws of what's in front of them. Whether you think its good enough or you'll want better electronics is up to you.
If you still have problems with unclear voices, mids and highs, etc., it'll be the electronics' fault, not the speakers.