Help with Audio Setup in New House
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New member Username: NewmediarousedPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-10 | Hi everyone - I'm new here. We just moved into a new house in Austin, TX and I'm looking for some ideas on finishing up our home theater setup. The speakers in the main room are the B&W CDM 1NT center and surround speakers (no sub or towers). Below is a description of the system that came with the house when we moved in. I am definitely a novice when it comes to AV setups, but am trying to pick it up as I go here. We are looking for something that is high quality but probably not the most high end setup available - the sort of setup that you can tell is really well designed, but not going to break the bank. Based on what is already in the house, I believe we still need to purchase: 1. HDMI switching receiver (6 channel) 2. Power amp 3. Sub The equipment in the house includes: 1. Main room: B&W CDM 1NT surrounds 2 2. Main room: B&W CDM 1NT center 3. Main room: In wall speakers 2 4. House: In wall speaker pairs in 5 different rooms I'm not sure of the in wall speaker brand or models, but feel it's safe to assume they were a good speaker when the house was built in 2001 (when the B&W's were installed in the main room). Any thoughts on what specific models of equipment I should be looking at? Or advice about tips and things to watch out for when hiring a contractor or trying to tackle this myself? |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 730 Registered: Oct-07 | Depending on size of room, LxWxH, you may need a pair of subs. |
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New member Username: Shawnml714Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-10 | Hi My question is about a whole house audio system I am installing, It has 7 pairs of 8 ohm speakers, 3 passive subwoofers(allso 8 ohms), my reciever is a sherwood 2.1 channel 100 watts per channel with a minimum inpedence of 8 ohms. My plan was to run from one channel of my reciever to A selector box, one sub and 2 speakers wired to subwoofer will run directly off selector box, the other two sub's and all other speakers will run off 4 impedence matching volume controls(and then to the selector box), the volume controls can be set for 1x, 2x, or 4x Imp. matching, acording to the chart that comes with the volume controls, they should be set at 4x for up to 5 pairs of 8 ohm speakers. My question is do you think I would be safe having the other 2 pairs of speakers and three subs conected to my reciever (threw selector box), Thats a total of 14 speakers all 8 ohm and 3 sub's at 8 ohms, another option is to keep all volume controls at 1x imp. and engage the protection circuit switch on my 6 pair selector box, which claims to maintain a stable 5 ohm imp. load. It may help if you know my exact set up plan. Living room (reciever location)- one passive sub will be wired from selector box, one pair of speakers (in ceiling) will be wired from sub. Total- 2 speakers, 1 sub. Front pourch- volume switch #1 wired from selector box, sub wired from volume switch, 1 pair of speakers wired from sub. One extra speaker wired from volume control. Total- 3 speakers and 1 sub. Kitchen- volume switch #2 running from selector box, 1 pair of speakers wired from volume switch, 1 extra speaker in mud room wired from volume switch in kitchen. Total- 3 speakers. Dining room- volume switch #3 running from selector box , 1 pair of speakers running from volume control. Total-2 speakers Back deck- volume switch #4 running from selector box, 1 sub. conected to volume switch, 2 pairs of post top speakers wired from sub. Total-1 sub ,4 speakers. This gives me a total of 5 listening zones. What is the best way to set this up so that if I had all zones on at once it would not cause my reciever to have problems. Thanks to any one who can tell me |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14756 Registered: Dec-04 | I dont think you have much of a chance with 3 passive subs, myself, you might consider strapping sub amps from partsexpress.com to these 3. This will make life more manageable for a receiver. Individual VC's should be autoformer type, so the receiver sees a manageable load. Note that the sub amps will provide crossovers for those area speakers as well, because the speakers will not like the full bass signal being sent their way, and will sound messy pretty quickly. I picked this at random to show... http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?item=5614§ion=15303 |
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New member Username: Shawnml714Post Number: 2 Registered: Mar-10 | Thanks for the advice Nuck The subs I have are 100w rms, does this mean I should get a 100w sub amp or can I get away with something less, or possibly one amp for all 3 subs, budget is a factor. Obveously I dont know a lot about this stuff. My volume controls are autoformer type 100w rms, and I dont know if this matters but my 6.5 speakers have there own crossovers(2nd order 12 db per octave) |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14763 Registered: Dec-04 | It is gonna get ugly man, each sun need an amp. My friend, what you have is total clusterbuck, with the guidance of a local guy to help you, that is my recommendation. If you want to go from here, then the 3 amps for 3 subs is correct. Note, please, that the 3 amps solve the EQ issue. There is no way to properly solve all at once, but the VC that I noted are a start. SL, doingthis in a budget means compromises. Please note this. The solution that I offer will also be current for upgrades, but the spekers, their limitations in placement and effectiveness make this a Class1, or background usage. My sugestions are for connectivity only. Cheers! |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 12583 Registered: Dec-03 | you could also look into using a 70 volt PA amplifier for whole-house speaker amplification, similar to what's used in commercial settings for whole-store in-ceiling speaker systems, and in office settings. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14679 Registered: May-04 | . There are several dealers in the Austin area who should be able to provide good advice on this system and its installation. Houston and Dallas can also provide support as can San Antonio if you're willing to do your communication over the internet. Have you spoken with a dealer? This is a reasonably complicated system that can have multiple correct answers depending on your desires and budget. My intial advice would be to consult someone more familiar with the possibilities of this system than can be managed on a forum. No matter what we tell you here, you will still require a good installer who will undoudtedly have their own ideas on how this system should go together once they have met face to face with you and seen the physical lay out. Do you have architectural drawings of the orignal whole house installation available to you? Any installer would prefer to know where wire runs begin and terminate. Drawings will save you considerable money spent hunting down such locations. . . |
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Gold Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 1227 Registered: Feb-08 | Greetings Shawn, What is the brand name of the speakers you are using/plan to use? I am trying to determine if the woofers have crossovers built in. I am also assuming (dangerous without seeing the system) that you are planning to do all of this in Mono right? |
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New member Username: Shawnml714Post Number: 3 Registered: Mar-10 | The speakers do have built in crossovers there 2nd order 12db per octive, the brand is theater solutions. this house I am putting the system in is completely open ( just studs) there was no pre existing system . |
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New member Username: Shawnml714Post Number: 4 Registered: Mar-10 | Oh I forgot I was hopping to set this up in stereo |
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Gold Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 1230 Registered: Feb-08 | Sorry I did read that somewhere, so then the problem I see is the areas where you have three speakers or even 4 speakers on a volume control. Am I getting a little closer to the problem you are having? BTW- Where did you buy these speakers? |
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Gold Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 1231 Registered: Feb-08 | OK, so how do you plan to deal with a three speaker zone? Is that what you are asking? |
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New member Username: Shawnml714Post Number: 5 Registered: Mar-10 | No I assumed I would not get stereo sound in rooms where I only had one speaker, What i need to know is do I have enough power from the reciever I mentioned in my original post, to power 3 subs and 14 speakers with the equiptment I mentioned i cercuit protected 6 pair switch box , 4 imped. matching vol. controls (100w rms) and what is the best way to set it up to ensure I wont damage my reciever, I know very little about all this stuff, so please dont wory about insulting me by over explaining, And I got the speakers on line at onlyfactorydirect.com |
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Gold Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 1232 Registered: Feb-08 | There are several problems to overcome here and one of them is your amps power. Your receiver could work if you don't expect too much from it. Blowing the roof off the house will likely not be possible and it is also likely to sound pretty bad if you try. Another problem, but easily overcome is more than two speakers on a volume control simply shouldn't be done. My recommendation, using the existing receiver, would be to get a second speaker selector (which you will need anyway), three more volume controls and just plan on using the Mono switch which the receiver hopefully has. Wire the left channel to one of the 6 way speaker switches and the right channel to the second one. so we have 24 outputs. The following is copied from your first post (with some spelling corrections and my comments in " ") Living room (receiver location)- one passive sub will be wired from selector box, one pair of speakers (in ceiling) will be wired from sub. Total- 2 speakers, 1 sub. "2 outputs" Front porch- volume switch #1 wired from selector box, sub wired from volume switch, 1 pair of speakers wired from sub. (2 outputs) One extra speaker wired from volume control. "This would need another volume control, consider an additional speaker with dual volume controls" Total- 3 speakers and 1 sub. "1 or 2 outputs" "A sub on the front porch, how cool is that?!?!?" Kitchen- volume switch #2 running from selector box, 1 pair of speakers wired from volume switch "2 outputs" 1 extra speaker in mud room wired from volume switch in kitchen. Total- 3 speakers. "again, consider a second speaker and another volume control" "1 or 2 outputs" Dining room- volume switch #3 running from selector box , 1 pair of speakers running from volume control. Total-2 speakers "2 outputs" Back deck- volume switch #4 running from selector box, 1 sub. connected to volume switch, 2 pairs of post top speakers wired from sub. Total-1 sub ,4 speakers. " you will need a second volume control" "4 outputs". Looks like the minimum would be 14 with max at 16 outputs. Does any of this help at all? |
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Gold Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 1233 Registered: Feb-08 | BTW- Paul, if you are still with us I apologize for hijacking this thread. Please post with any additional questions |
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New member Username: Shawnml714Post Number: 6 Registered: Mar-10 | Im not understanding why I cant put more than one pair on a volume control when each one is set up for 4 pairs of speakers, and would it be easyer to buy a diferent reciever, what kind would I need. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14768 Registered: Dec-04 | little T-amps at each speaker/room? But power the subs, whatever amp is 100-200w will be fine,Paul. |
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Gold Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 1235 Registered: Feb-08 | Look at your volume controls, unless they are something I have never seen (possible) then they are made for a stereo pair of speakers, not three, not four, two!. Besides all of that you will appreciate the extra control you get over the sound. Another receiver won't fix your volume control situation or the odd number of speakers but would perhaps give you more power and more options for stereo. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14680 Registered: May-04 | . " ... just plan on using the Mono switch which the receiver hopefully has" Stereo to mono transformers. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14770 Registered: Dec-04 | It sure looks like mono is the best option here. Bye bye to any playback mode other than stereo, however... |
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New member Username: Shawnml714Post Number: 7 Registered: Mar-10 | Paul, what are t amps & where do I get them,and what size sub amp can I get away with . My subs are 100w rms , and Jim the volume controls definently can hook up 4 pairs of speakers. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14685 Registered: May-04 | . "Bye bye to any playback mode other than stereo, however..." You only need the transformers in those locations where only one speaker exists. The rest of the system plays in stereo as if it didn't know the difference. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14686 Registered: May-04 | . "Look at your volume controls, unless they are something I have never seen (possible) then they are made for a stereo pair of speakers, not three, not four, two!." The volume control doesn't care how many wire nuts you use to connect how many speakers unless'n you do sumpin' reeeeeeeal stoooooopid. The amp cares. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14687 Registered: May-04 | . You really should be talking to someone who knows this stuff. . |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14777 Registered: Dec-04 | The source player cares about mono/stereo/sacd. If you want mono, start with the source. And yes, have someone come in and see the place, Paul. Now is the time, just when you have no cash, obviously. Lotsa guys have tried this kid of trick on the cheap, and some have achieved good results, but you have to jump through hoops to run the remotes. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14691 Registered: May-04 | . "If you want mono, start with the source." You got a mono CD player? . |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14780 Registered: Dec-04 | Yes, my player does mono. Or the preamp or receiver for the OP. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14781 Registered: Dec-04 | So does the amp. And DAC. most do. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14694 Registered: May-04 | . Never seen a CD player or a DAC with a "mono" switch. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14783 Registered: Dec-04 | I do not use a cdp  |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14696 Registered: May-04 | . Oh, well, very hoity-toity! Now you're gonna tell me your computer has a "mono" switch.  . |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2360 Registered: May-06 | Nuck is answering Shawn as Paul while Shawn thinks Nuck is Paul. Shawn, whom hijacked Paul's thread, should look into something like Niles amplification. http://www.nilesaudio.com/docs/productSheets/ZR-4_Cutsheet.pdf Either we lost Paul or he took JV's advice above and is off seeking professional help. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14700 Registered: May-04 | . AWWWWWWSHIT! I hate when that happens. . |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14791 Registered: Dec-04 | S.N.A.F.U. Sorry if I messed that up, guys. |
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