Wharfedale Evolution2-10
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page| Thread | Last Poster | Posts | Last Post | |
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| Archive through December 21, 2009 | freddie | 100 | ||
| Archive through October 11, 2009 | Dan L. | 100 | ||
| Archive through September 12, 2009 | George | 100 | ||
| Archive through August 23, 2009 | Art | 100 | ||
| Archive through July 27, 2009 | Mordecai | 100 | ||
| Archive through June 19, 2009 | Art | 100 | ||
| Archive through June 15, 2009 | Art | 100 | ||
| Archive through June 09, 2009 | Art | 100 | ||
| Archive through June 06, 2009 | Christopher Molloy | 100 |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11567 Registered: Feb-05 | The system in the office has changed a bit with the Apollo in the mix so I'm trying to determine which speaker I like best in this newly configured system within the restrictions of my 9x10 home office. At this point I like the ELS3's better in this setup and in this room. Not getting rid of either though. It's the midrange and midbass which is so addictive on the Epos. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 840 Registered: Jan-05 | Just imagine if there was ONE perfect speaker.. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzGold CoastAustralia Post Number: 2750 Registered: Nov-05 | There is JJ - I've got them.  |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3121 Registered: Oct-04 | I just recieved my new Mapleshade catalog, and Pierre Sprey seems pretty smitten with the Anthony Gallo Strada, but @ $2K/pair, they are a bit pricey; if you're on a budget, Sprey suggest the $220 Cambridge Audio S30. |
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Gold Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1072 Registered: Jun-08 | Here here Art on those ELS3's. I've been enjoying my pair very much. I still don't have them on quality stands but I know exactly what you're talking about with the upper bass and midrange. They are lovely in that realm. I also like the detail in the top end. With my Bryston 3B-ST running them, they have a little bite to them but I favour that with the type of music I primarily listen to i.e. jazz. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11571 Registered: Feb-05 | One day I'll pick up the recommended dedicated stands for them but for now the Atacama Nexus 6 is pretty close, and they are just an intoxicating little speaker aren't they? The better the amplification and source the better they sing. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11577 Registered: Feb-05 | Enjoying Fire.fm on my ELS 3's. They really love the Atacama stands and the present configuration of my room.... Not quite the DeVore's I was just listening to but fun none the less. |
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Gold Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1076 Registered: Jun-08 | Hey Art, putting aside the fact that the DeVore's are a whole different speaker, how would you compare the mid's and high's with the ELS3? In other words, with your DeVore's as the reference, what would be the strengths and weaknesses of the ELS3? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11578 Registered: Feb-05 | I haven't used the ELS 3 with the Sonneteer amp and with the same cabling. But the obvious difference is bass weight. The DeVore's not only produce great inner detail but they have great weight and play solidly into the mid 30's. This is best evidenced with well recorded piano, where the DeVore's are very convincing. Also the tweeter in the ELS 3 isn't as refined. Cymbals and other percussion aren't quite as true. Same with well recorded jazz guitar. The strength of the ELS 3's are the midrange and upper bass where they have similar characteristics as the DeVore's with openness and detail, without the same level of refinement, but very good for the price. Also the ELS 3 sounds like a small speaker compared to the DeVore or the Evo2-10. Both have greater gravitas, with the Devore bettering the Epos in every way and the Wharfedale not. The Evo2-10 , like the Diamond 9.1 is muddier and weightier in the critical midrange/upper bass area which is a mixed bag. You get a fuller yet less detailed sound...mixed bag. Right now I prefer the Epos. |
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Gold Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1081 Registered: Jun-08 | Thanks for that Art, it was helpful. I found a similar result when I compared my Sinclair Audio B15 against the ELS3. The Sinclair's are a slightly larger bookshelf and came across sounding a little larger with a broader soundstage but sacrificing some detail, accuracy and transparency. The Sinclair's were warmer but not as quick and tight, much like you describe the Wharfedale in comparison to the ELS3. I think now I have some good selection. I'm still continually being driven towards getting a pair of MA RS6 or RX6's. Sometime. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11582 Registered: Feb-05 | If you like the Epos sound, George, have you considered moving up in their line? |
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Gold Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1082 Registered: Jun-08 | No but maybe that's something I should look into. I haven't been to an Epos dealer - I should source one and take a listen. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11621 Registered: Feb-05 | Have a couple of irons in the fire for my office system so I will very likely be selling either the Evo2-10's or my Epos ELS 3's within the next 2-4 wks. The decision will not be made relative to which is the best speaker but more to which is the better speaker for the application, that is which best suits the home office environment. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 320 Registered: Jan-09 | Art, Merry Christmas. I've been looking at Paradigm Studio 20's on Audiogon and Ebay. Which version would you recommend V3 or V4? Do you think they will sound significantly better than the Evo 2 10's with my NAD receiver? How would you compare the sound qaulity of the Studio 20's to the Evo 2 10's? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3445 Registered: Feb-07 | I have the Studio 20 v4 Mord. Paradigm seems to make incremental improvements with each iteration. I'd go for the 4's if the difference isn't too much. I've found that NAD and Paradigm are a nice match. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11623 Registered: Feb-05 | I'd have to disagree with David just a tad on this one. Paradigm does usually improve but at the time of the v4 they were making more mistakes than improvements and both the Monitor line and Studio/Reference lines were victims. I personally would buy the v3's as they were beautifully balanced and were not plagued with some of the build and balance quality issues that the v4 had. In the end if the v4's have been broken in (without being broken...lol) you can't lose either way. And admittedly I have vastly less experience with the v4 than the v3. The Studio 20's a good deal better than the Evo2-10's which are a fine speaker. They are more balanced from a timbre perspective, a good deal clearer relative to microdynamics and more dynamic without any sign of stress. Very good speaker and to my ears still the best balanced speaker at it's price. The lack of wood veneer usually turns people off, don't let that get to you. All the wood veneer in the world won't make the Evo2-10 sound as good as either the v3 or v4 Studio 20. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 321 Registered: Jan-09 | Thanks David. I am looking at both. I am going to a dealer tomorrow to hear the 20's but it will probably be the newer version unless they have some NOS V4's around. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3446 Registered: Feb-07 | I have to partially agree with Art. The Monitor line did not get better over time, except for maybe the Atoms. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11624 Registered: Feb-05 | I hear good things about the v5, never heard them. Here may be the deal of the decade, STO has the v1 Signature S2 for $1295. My wife and I listened to those and she still wants a pair. http://www.tsto.com/Paradigm_Signature_S2_V_1_Loudspeakers_p/3156.htm Another thought is that for around the cost of the v5 Studio 20 or that pair of S2's you could get a second hand pair of DeVore Gibbon 3's. The S2's brand new in the box for $1295 would be hard to pass up if I had the dough. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 322 Registered: Jan-09 | Thanks Art. I will look a that Signatures but I think that is more than I want to spend at the moment. Is the NAD a godd match with Paradigm? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11625 Registered: Feb-05 | NAD is a good match, however the Sigs are above NAD's capability. Be sure that if you're going to spend money on new speakers that you clearly move up. A mostly lateral move with a bit of upward motion is less advisable than putting together a few extra bucks. The S2's would be a huge move forward. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3447 Registered: Feb-07 | I agree. The Sigs require and deserve some quality amplification. Right now in my bedroom my Studio 20s are being driven by a Yamaha 2 channel receiver and it actually sounds pretty good. The Dane enjoys it more than anyone. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14224 Registered: Dec-04 | I am so glad that the dog reviews them well, LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3450 Registered: Feb-07 | She has better ears than me, and it keeps her from eating my slippers. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14227 Registered: Dec-04 | hehehe |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 323 Registered: Jan-09 | Art, do you think the Evo's would benefit from more power? I really like there sound but wonder if the C325 gets everything from these speakers. Saturday Audio Exchange has the C352 at 80wpc for $429 and I found an a C355 on Audiogon for $475. Tomorrow I am going to a Paradigm dealer just to listen to higher end equipment. I've never really done this before. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11638 Registered: Feb-05 | Not so much more power, Mordecai, better power. That NAD is a wonderful little amp and my wife loves hers, but I'd take my little Creek 4330 over it any day and it's an amp the size of a carton of butts with 40 watts per side. Passive pre amp section and a damn well though out amp. And how about my Sonneteer with 50 watts a side. I'd take it over any NAD regardless of their power.The Wharfie's would definitely benefit from a Bryston B60 which is a hair more power than your NAD but in a different stratosphere relative to quality. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 324 Registered: Jan-09 | The Bryston is tad higher price than the NAD and the Creek. What about the Creek Evo? There is one on Audiogon for $500? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11640 Registered: Feb-05 | The Evo is definitely a step up from NAD and the latest Evolution II is even better yet. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 325 Registered: Jan-09 | Well, there are two on AG. I sure wish I could hear it first. I will look to see if there is a dealer in my area tomorrow. Thanks again Art for the advice. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11641 Registered: Feb-05 | The black Creek Evolution over at A'gon is particularly nice. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2893 Registered: Jun-07 | I agree with both David and Art on the Paradigm speakers. The latest Studio and Signature lines are definitely an improvement over any of the previous versions. I think the V4's are better than the V3's. The V5's Studio line are the best they have had yet. But I agree with Art that the Monitor line took a huge nose dive. The V5's came out and were terrible, but they were quickly replaced with the V6's in about 4 to 5 months as Paradigm knew they made a mistake. I still dont think the V6 Monitor Line are as good as the old V1,2,3,4 Monitor Line, but at least they fixed them up a lot compared to the horrible V5 series. The Atoms were ok in the V5 series. The Signatures definitely need better amplification than the typical NAD classis series amps. I heard the Creek Evolution II and is a great sounding unit. Never heard the first Evolution but I am sure it is very very good. Like Art- The new Signature line are on my short list of speakers to have in my home in the future. I like them very much. The new Studio line are very nice too though. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14229 Registered: Dec-04 | Lash the little Sigs up to a Sim 1.3 setup and sit down for some fun! |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 326 Registered: Jan-09 | Happy New Year! Art, How does the Creek 5330SE compare to the Creek Evolution? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11698 Registered: Feb-05 | The 5350SE (I hope you meant) is a direct descendant of a line up in the Creek hierarchy of products from the Evolution which is descended from a budget line which started as the original CAS 4040 amp. The 5350SE has more grunt and a leaner sound. Some folks hear it as a bit fatiguing...Mike owned one and I've only listened to them. He would have more insight into how it is to live with one. Several British integrated amps have undergone some changes of late due, in part, to being considered a bit energetic on top. The Exposure 2010S II, Naim Nait 5i-2, Creek Evolution II are the result of their previous incarnations all having been accused of being just a hair bright. Every one of these amps are smoother and easier on the ear than their predecessors. For some folks that's good and for others it takes away from the excitement of music. I like Creek amps and would not hesitate to own another. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11699 Registered: Feb-05 | Oh and Happy New Year Mordecai! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11717 Registered: Feb-05 | OK Evo2-10 guys...how do you have 'em connected? Tonight I learned a very unpredictable (at least to my unlearned self) yet unmistakable truth. They are even better than I thought. OK guys...do tell, how are they connected? |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 124 Registered: Apr-07 | I have Monster XP with Monoprice bananas into the bottom terminals, with more XP as the jumpers (bare wire). Despite using crappy cables (and still a crappy amp), am I missing something? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11718 Registered: Feb-05 | You are doing it right then Freddie. Here's the stuff...every bi wire capable speaker I've ever had, when single wired, sounded far better connected to the top terminals with the exception of my Totem Rainmakers which were better in a diagonal configuration. I friggin never tried the bottom terminals with the Evo's until tonight and OMG, the high end, bass, soundstage, imaging and all of the rest of the audiophile superlatives were far superior to having them connected to the upper terminals. I've never listened to a bi wire capable speaker with more high frequency energy and clarity when connected to the bottom terminals. I'm speechless! |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 125 Registered: Apr-07 | I read an old thread about the Opus' when I first got the Evos that said the same thing, so they've been on the bottom terminals since I got them (other than the short time where they were bi-wired...which I didn't think made any difference with them. My M80s were a different story however). I don't think I ever used the brass straps either, put my wire jumpers in right away. Glad to see you're back to enjoying them...How is this new configuration vs the ELS3s? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11720 Registered: Feb-05 | The ELS 3's will be waving bye bye from the front porch shortly...say bye! I don't use the brass jumpers either, I use the Paul Speltz Anti-Jumpers. Just a nicely terminated solid core copper jumper. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 126 Registered: Apr-07 | Good to hear. It seemed like the novelty of these speakers had worn off a bit lately after all that hype over the summer, but I'm still enjoying mine quite a bit and I'm glad they made their way back into your system. And with that, I'm off to bed to enjoy some shoegazer goodness (the classic Loveless by MBV) on mine. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 452 Registered: Dec-06 | When I had my pair I had bare wire connections to the bottom two terminals with Anti-cable jumpers going to the top two terminals. For a while I tried what Wharfedale suggested in the manual, which I think was red to the top terminal red and black to the bottom terminal black. With the anti-jumpers of course. Going by memory here, I believe this is how the manual suggested it. I usually connect my cables to the bottom two terminals. I never thought about trying other configurations, at least until I read the Evo2-10 manual. But I went back to my regular method after trying it out that way since I didn't hear any apparent difference. I like the Anti-jumpers, but I have moved on to Atlas jumpers to match my other cables. For Cd's I'm using all Atlas, for my tuner and my universal player I have Ultralink and Van den Hul interconnects respectively. Been thinking of changing those to Atlas too, but I've decided I'm going to use them all for a while and maybe do a comparison one day and see which one I like best. The price points are very different on all of them however. I've also terminated my speaker cables to QED Screwloc banana plugs (I guess technically it's not all Atlas then) that I bought long ago but never used; so far I must say that I am pleased with the results. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 327 Registered: Jan-09 | Well crap, I'm out of town and don't remember how mine are wired. I hope I don't have them wired to the bottom terminals but I think read this somewhere before and wired them to the lower terminals. I will just have to wait until tomorrow to find out. On another note, do you think tower speakers would be to big for a 10x11 room? I am thinking of adding the RS6's to my speakers to listen to list. It seems all the reviews are positive. My kit is setup for nearfield listening. Will the NAD 325BEE push these speakers effectively? Art, glad to hear you kept the Wharfies. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3469 Registered: Feb-07 | I currently have my RS6s in my dining room, which is about 10x12. I don't find them too big at all. From what I recall the RS6s are quite efficient. I couldn't imagine your NAD having any trouble at all driving them. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11721 Registered: Feb-05 | I know a dealer that carried van den Hul and Atlas. They no longer carry Atlas. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3143 Registered: Oct-04 | I've got mine wired-up with Belden 5000UE & bare-wire jumpers in a Top-Right, Bottom-Left configuration (I think?). I'll switch to the bottom & let you know what I think. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11723 Registered: Feb-05 | BTW Dan the dealer did like some of the Atlas cables, however vdH offers a more complete line. I may demo one of the left over Atlas speaker cables in my office system. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11724 Registered: Feb-05 | I tried both diagonal configurations and the straight bottom beat them handily. It's the strangest thing...hmm. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3144 Registered: Oct-04 | I can't conceive as to why this would make a difference? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11725 Registered: Feb-05 | As always I couldn't possibly care less as to why...does it make a difference and if so is the difference for the better? That's all I need to know. The difference between using the top terminals and bottom was HUGE! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11726 Registered: Feb-05 | In my experience this isn't unusual...what's unusual is that the bottom terminals are sounding like what I usually experience connected to the top terminals. Wharfedale has their speakers wired differently than other manufacturers do. The positive and negative terminals are on the opposite side of what any of my other speakers are..that should have been a clue to at least try it this way...live and learn. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 454 Registered: Dec-06 | My RS5 is in a room that's about 11.5 x 12.5 and it does a great job. I've wondered if the RS6 might be too much for the room, but I don't think it would be. I don't have much experience with tower speakers, this being my first pair. I was worried about them sounding too boxy, having read online more than once that bookshelf speakers, while not covering as wide a frequency range, will overall tend to have better sound quality. But I'm very impressed thus far, the RS5 having a very open, quick and clear sound, and tons of PRaT, and instead of eventually buying the PMC TB2i I think I may now step up to the GB1i. But that's at least 2 years away. Art, I'd be interested in knowing how the Atlas cable compares. Right now I have Atlas Equator Superior interconnects running out of my Saturn, and Hyper 2.0 speaker cable. The vdH cable I have is The Wave, which is probably twice the price of the Atlas. I bought it before I decided to go all Atlas and probably didn't need to shoot so high. I've thought of selling it and getting the Hyper interconnect, which I gather would be an almost exact match with my speaker wire. But there's no rush, for now I am ironing out which electronics I will use, then after a lot of listening (and perhaps after I upgrade to my long term speaker) I may revisit cables. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11729 Registered: Feb-05 | The Wave is a $199 interconnect. I didn't like The Wave nearly as well as the The Well Hybrid, obviously since I had them both for audition and decided to keep the The Well. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14304 Registered: Dec-04 | As always I couldn't possibly care less as to why...does it make a difference and if so is the difference for the better? That's all I need to know. The difference between using the top terminals and bottom was HUGE! Similar here, Art. When I pushed Frank to tell me why, he told me (in a PM) to shut up and enjoy it! I read a forum somewhere, when people rewired their Wharfedales that many admitted to correcting a phase issue that was unknown before. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11734 Registered: Feb-05 | That makes sense, Nuck. The whole sound changed...and for the better. Now to try it on the Diamond 9.1's in HT. Interestingly the diamond 9.0 rears, though not bi wire capable, do have the positive and negative on the same sides as all of my other speakers minus the Evo2-10's and the 9.1's. This is an interesting turn, for sure. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14307 Registered: Dec-04 | Don't wire 'em in the dark! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11738 Registered: Feb-05 | With my vision, everything I do is in the dark! |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 127 Registered: Apr-07 | I had never even realized they were set up backwards relative to other speakers, but I guess it makes sense with the positive being on the left rather than right. My CSW M80s have an interesting vertical arrangement of positive positive negative negative. I'm not sure I've ever seen any other company do that.  |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 328 Registered: Jan-09 | Okay, I checked mine out tonight and I had them wired diagonally. To make sure I am doing it like you Art I now have the speakers cables connected to the bottom terminals. and the anti jumpers going to the top and bottom jumpers (the top terminals have only the jumpers connected and the bottom have the speaker cables and jumpers connected. Positive to positive and negative to negative. I just want to make sure you are not saying that the negative and positive terminals are switched. The speakers have more overall dynamics and volume then the diagonal configuration. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11758 Registered: Feb-05 | No switched wiring (positive-negative) and you didn't have to change the jumpers at all, right? Just move the speaker cable to the lower terminals. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3147 Registered: Oct-04 | Upon further review, I actually have the 10s connected through their bottom terminals, not diagonally, so I guess I've been listening to them this way the whole while. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11760 Registered: Feb-05 | The Anti-Jumpers provided a bit much high frequency energy for me with that set up so no I'm using my Gutwire Synchrony 2 jumpers with better results. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 133 Registered: Apr-07 | I came across a Cambridge Audio Azur 540v2 that I'd have enough money for if I were to sell my other speakers. I've never heard this amp my self but I know someone who's using this configuration (540v2 and the Evos) who likes it a lot, but I thought I'd run it by here to see what you guys say. This is the range of amp I've been after for a while and it seems like a pretty nice deal. So what do you guys think? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11762 Registered: Feb-05 | I have not heard the combination but the Cambridge name gets a lot of positive comments here. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 134 Registered: Apr-07 | Cool, I'll try to make that happen then. The new 550A is kinda what I wanted to end up with, anyway. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3473 Registered: Feb-07 | If you get the 550A let us know what you think. I haven't had a chance to hear it yet. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 135 Registered: Apr-07 | Probably going to be the used 540A V2. I've found a few going for $200-$250....Seems like too good a deal to pass up, especially when the 550A is more than twice that price. I also found a 640 V2 for about the same range, may go for that instead....I think they're essentially the same except the 640 has a little more headroom. Waiting on the guy who wanted to buy my old speakers now...I'd love to be able to make this happen within the week. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 136 Registered: Apr-07 | Of course that has to fall through...They guy ended up finding the same speakers locally for much cheaper than I was asking. Might try throwing them on Audiogon, but I dunno. Oh well...It'll happen eventually. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11840 Registered: Feb-05 | i am about at the point where I am going to liquidate my office system and buy some powered speakers for the room. I'm probably going to attempt to once again (crazy as it may seem) find an analog rig that satisfies at real world prices. Right now I'm looking at the Clearaudio Concept. |
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Gold Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1096 Registered: Jun-08 | Art, I like the looks of the Concept; however, do you think it will perform any better than the P3-24? Or, is it you just thinking you sold you TT too soon and just want to get back to vinyl with something different. Just curious on your interest in the Concept. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11852 Registered: Feb-05 | I think that anything that is well designed and engineered will perform better than the P3-24. The P3-24 performed very poorly in my system...I liked the sound of the old P3 much better than the latest version. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11853 Registered: Feb-05 | Herbie Hancock - Takin' Off |
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Gold Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1097 Registered: Jun-08 | Must be your system Art or something in your particular setup that held back the p3-24. It's got high reviews everywhere. A shame but it could be it was too analytical. I've heard it will pull all the imperfections out of the vinyl. Unless you're playing high quality pressings for most of it, I could see it becoming annoying. Did you every try 180+ gram new pressings on it? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11890 Registered: Feb-05 | LOL...no George, it wasn't my system....and no it wasn't too analytical (not in the least). The quality control at Rega has become laughable, if it weren't so tragic. The first time I bought a P3 it took 3 of them to get one that didn't have a defective motor, it took 2 Elys cartridges...the distributor said that Rega just had a bad run. It took 2 P5's and when I sold the P5 it had problems. Rega has become a joke and a bad one at that. My problem with the P3-24 was pitch stability and speed. I invited a friend over and it sounded so bad that we both shook our heads, and I put on a CD. Once again had to send one off. No more Rega turntables for me unless it's a used P3-2000 that I can verify it's performance. More than one dealer I know is very frustrated as they spend more time working with QC issues with Rega turntables and speakers than they do on any other single part of their business...that is not how it should be. So as much as I would love to stick with Rega, I must move on. Next stop, perhaps Clearaudio...we'll see. |
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Gold Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1099 Registered: Jun-08 | Interesting Art. The first Goldring GR1.2 I purchased had a problem with the cover and paint application problems with the tonearm i.e. bubbles and exposed metal. The distributor exchange for a new one and when I got home I noticed there was a warp in the MDF platter. I lived with it for sometime and then finally bought a used glass platter from a guy on CAM. It's spiniing fine until recently I had a skipping problem when the room it's been sitting in got cold. I thought it was my cartridge but when I did some reasearch I heard the tonearm wires can get caught and restrict the movement of the tonearm. I got out the WD-40 and lubricated the tonearm and played with the cable to loosen it up. When the room warmed up a bit - no problem. It's working just fine. Strange. The distributor mentioned that the quality control on the Goldrings is not as high as the Rega's - hence the low cost. I would have never assumed Rega would be comprimising their QC. It's a shame - a real shame. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11896 Registered: Feb-05 | I agree, George. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 488 Registered: Dec-06 | What do you guys think about Project turntables? I may buy a turntable soon, and am leaning to the Cambridge Audio TT50, which I understand was made for CA by Project. It has a nice gloss black finish, and for around $500 I figure it may make sense for someone like me who has never owned one of these things before. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3161 Registered: Oct-04 | Dan, I'm sure your read the glowing review of the Project III in the new issue of Stereophile, it seems to be a good a strong player. If I was going to jump back into vinyl (I can't even decide if I'm done with CDs!), it's the player I would look at. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3567 Registered: Feb-07 | Every now and then I'm tempted to jump back into vinyl too. Then I remember that I stupidly sold my entire vinyl collection 15 years ago when turntables were "obsolete". The thought of re-establishing a vinyl collection is just too daunting. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 489 Registered: Dec-06 | I really haven't read much yet Chris. But I just read reviews on Audioenz of both the CA and the Project model it's based on (the Xpression III), and for a couple hundred bucks more I think the Project may be the way to go. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11911 Registered: Feb-05 | I've owned the Xpression and it's a pretty good little table. I think Stu has one. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3162 Registered: Oct-04 | Same here David, with entire catalogues being released on solid-state media in FLAC (like The Beatles "Apple"), I think the handwriting is on the wall. http://www.digitalstores.co.uk/beatles/productdetail.jsp?productPK=unittest-oKX1 JtoPqGy2rgEyqN3IEb-1 When are those "audiophile-quality" USB card readers coming out? |
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Gold Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1100 Registered: Jun-08 | Vinyl will be always different than CD's or files. There is almost something primal, visceral in the feeling a good LP gives you on a quality turntable. Even if you only have a few, you appreciate them when you play them. It takes you back. Even a turntable unplayed is a piece of beauty. I don't think I'll ever have my 2-ch kit without one - even if it's there just as a talking piece. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 11924 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm looking forward to having a turntable again. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14433 Registered: Dec-04 | I divorced the last talking piece... Are you a collector like the kids, George? |
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Gold Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1101 Registered: Jun-08 | Oh yeah, I'm a collector Nuck. I'd never get rid of something unless it was awful to look at and/or of absolute no possible use to me now or in the future - the key word being possible. LOL. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14443 Registered: Dec-04 | Not 10-2's but I have a pair of Diamond 9.4's in da house to try out. Maybe this afternoon... |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 138 Registered: Apr-07 | Any pics? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3574 Registered: Feb-07 | For sure! Pics Nuck. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 14448 Registered: Dec-04 |   |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 341 Registered: Jan-09 | I picked up a floor model Martin Logan Dynamo sub from Best Buy yesterday for $250. I am glad I did. Now my film scores have the low end they should have. I love my Wharfies but I just was not satisfied with the low end for film scores. I hooked them with my NAD using the R & L speaker cable connection. This is the recommended manner for a 2.0 system by Martin Logan. I know some of you are using your Wharfies in a 2.1 system. Is this the best setup? Any recommendations? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12317 Registered: Feb-05 | I think Chris may be using a sub with his. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 147 Registered: Apr-07 | I use a sub with mine hooked up the same way with the speaker level inputs. The direct mode on my receiver is much better sounding than stereo, but that disables the sub preout, so speaker level ends up working better for me. I have mine set on the B speaker terminals as well as I had a problem with hum but for some reason this resolved it....Not sure why. I have the crossover set at 60 or 65 hz and the gain very low.....You can't really even tell it's on unless you shut it off while it's playing. I have it pushed back into the corner at a 45* angle as this produces the best results with my limited experimentation on placement. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3196 Registered: Oct-04 | Nope, my EVOs are in a plain old 2-ch. set-up with my Marantz gear, Parts Express 24" stands, quality budget cables all around, and continue to work magic in my small room; no subs need apply. I've mentioned this before, but I'm looking to shed my HK/Infinity 2.1 set-up, while it surely looks handsome sitting in my living-room, my listening habits have evolved & it's just not getting enough use. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12319 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm glad to hear that the Evo's are doin' 2.0 duty. They are worthy. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 148 Registered: Apr-07 | Actually speaking of sub placement, anyone have any more advanced guides than "put it in your seat and crawl around"? I'm throughly cleaning out my room right now and just re-did the WASP setup which sounds excellent as always but I'm clueless as to what to do with the sub. The crawl technique gives you a general idea or where it should go but it doesn't seem very accurate to me. Sub is a small sealed 10" front firing....It's on spikes and setup stuff is described above. I've had it set up similar to the pic in 6moons REL R305 review (http://6moons.com/audioreviews/rel/r305.html), which is the best I've gotten it to sound, but I still don't think it's ideal. Thanks in advance for any help. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 544 Registered: Dec-06 | I have the Dynamo too (the older one, not one of the newer 500/700/1000 models). I'm assuming that is the one that you have. I've finally got my system pretty much assembled, now I am working on speaker and subwoofer placement. I think this weekend I hit the sweet spot for both, or I am at least a lot closer to it, after much trial and error. I am a bit limited as my cables aren't all that long. Sub cables I think are 2 meters. My sub has to be either to the left or right of my system in one of the corners of the room. Cables do not allow for moving it further out into the room. The good thing about the Dynamo is you can either have it down firing or front firing. So I have set it up to front fire directly into the room, this minimizes too much bass reinforcement in the corner. I didn't crawl around my room or anything, just listened, moved the sub/speakers around, listened more, made more adjustments, etc. Front firing directly into the room sounds better than any other way I've tried. I am sort of on the fence when it comes to subs. They are tough to incorporate into a system, but I also want that low end extension. Once I get things set up to my satisfaction I will do comparisons with and without to see what I prefer. For movies I'd definitely want a sub, for music only I am still undecided. I thought the ML would give me a good music only sub, and it's definitely not a boomy one-note box, but integrating it so that you hear the bass but it doesn't overwhelm is tough. Some albums sound perfect, others the bass sticks out too much. Maybe then it's the albums themselves...on certain albums perhaps the bass is a little higher in the mix than I'd like. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 149 Registered: Apr-07 | Yeah same, I alternate with it every few months. Sometimes I think the speakers are enough on their own and it's just too hard to blend right, but other times the extra extension and punch is just too tempting. I'm also starting to think the quality of a sub might be a bit overrated....I think those who talk about 'musical' subs might just have gotten lucky and gotten the blending right with less of it having to do with the sub itself. Don't get me wrong, I've heard many different levels of subs, some of them clearly better than the others, but I just think there's more luck involved than people give credit for. Anyone tried two subs? I've read in some places that it's easier to smooth things out and blend with the mains....But then in other places I've read it's even harder to get two right than one. Maybe that depends on the room (like everything else). |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12327 Registered: Feb-05 | Who woulda thunk that this thread would get to 1000 posts. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 342 Registered: Jan-09 | Amazing isn't it. If I didn't listen to film scores the speakers would have been enough. Everything else I listen to for the most part is acoustic which these speakers are perfect for. I tried a JBL sub and had problems with blending like you say freddie. The ML Dynamo is a better sub and the bass is much tighter which helps blending. I also hooked this sub up speaker level instead of line level which Martin Logan recommends for a 2.0 system. I set the low pass filter acording to their direction and this sub blends very nicely. I am very pleased. Some of my music has more low end then others so you are not going to get away from this even without the sub. I believe this is a sealed sub as it is an older Dynamo. It is a very compact 10inch sub too. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 554 Registered: Dec-06 | Back to using no sub. I thought I had the Dynamo set up pretty good, worked at adjusting the volume and the crossover, and also placement. Nevertheless, couldn't quite get it sounding 100% right. Thought I'd hear how the Quad 12L2's do on their own so I shut off the sub. It's definitely better, quite a lot better. The Quads put out a lot of bass for their size. I never feel that it's lacking. The fullness and punch are both there. Guess I'll leave the sub for HT use only. Oh well. I suppose it only makes sense. How can you blend in an entirely separate speaker and have it sound more cohesive than just letting the mains take care of the low end while they are also taking care of everything else? |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 344 Registered: Jan-09 | I understand Dan. However, I am very pleased with the sub in my system. I played around with the positioning and I think it integrates well. Of course some songs don't sound as good as others. I do feel the mids and uppers are crisper with the sub taking the low end. Then again I may not be as discriminating as others. I set the low pass filter setting at 70% of the Wharfies lowest frequency which is the recommended starting point in the Martin Logan user manual. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 555 Registered: Dec-06 | To be honest I didn't understand that recommendation. I don't have a lot of subwoofer experience, but I assumed that you are supposed to set the crossover for the frequency that you want the sub to take over from the speaker. Which for the 12L2 would be somewhere about 45-50Hz. I did follow ML's recommendation and started around 32Hz (70% of 45Hz), but then adjusted it upwards when I felt that there may have been a gap between where the sub began and where my speakers stopped. I think it sounded best around 40Hz. I used an SPL meter to test my Quads and I think they put out good bass until 50Hz or so. Frankly, I don't know if the settings on the Dynamo are accurate or whether they are 70% of the frequency shown on the dial. Again, I don't understand why ML did it this way. They should have simply recommended choosing the Hz that your speakers go down to, and then make adjustments from there up or down as one sees fit. This 70% thing only helps to confuse. Just my opinion. I guess maybe they recommended 70% as a good starting point that avoids the subwoofer from coming on too strong at the start. But all it did was make me wonder if the sub was set too low. |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 940 Registered: Oct-07 | Neither frequency.....the rated low frequency of the speaker OR the crossover setting of the sub is a 'brick wall'. 70% sounds like a nice 'rule of thumb' and I'll remember. So, you set the x-over lower...so, as the sub 'fades out', the low end of the speaker 'fades in'. This is what I do with my panels, which I run full range. With music I could hear the overlap as an increase in level at or above the crossover. It was real mushy. When I turned the crossover lower, that went away. I started about 50hz, went into the low 40s and then hi 30s. I may experiment with lower still. It is almost impossible to tell when playing a movie. In that case, more bang / explosion is usually better. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 345 Registered: Jan-09 | I use mine strictly for music. I am also using the Dynamo with driver facing the floor. I bought from Best Buy (floor Model) and they did not have the speaker grill. I emailed Martin Logan and they are sending me one for free. Besides making a really good sub they seem to understand a thing or two about customer service. Once I get the grill I will set it up with the speaker facing out. Not sure it will make any difference but I am going to give it a try. I messed around a little with the low pass setting but I think the initial setting worked the best. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 151 Registered: Apr-07 | Just did some surgery on mine. Not sure if anyone remembers but I had a problem with the right side of one of my tweeters. Bob, their US distributor, walked me through tightening it down, which helped a bit, but didn't completely cure it so it's been bothering me a little. Today I took them back apart and found out that the MDF inside is chipped a little bit...not really enough to cause problems with the enclosure itself but enough where the screw on that side wouldn't clamp down properly. Apparently whoever put them together thought so too, because the screw and clamp is missing. The tweeter was still very tight and rigid to the enclosure, but just not quite flush on that side. So my dad is going to machine me a new screw and clamp which will hopefully fix this....again it hasn't been an issue really and I don't think it's audible but it's always been in the back of my head. I took some photos of the internals if anyone's interested...everything seems very well made. The enclosure walls are fairly thick (though on the front baffle they're heavily machined, so it varies), Xover network board is really nice and tidy, and the drivers themselves are quite impressive with all cast housings. The cabling inside is also pretty high gauge, although it does use those annoying crimp clips to connect to the drivers which makes removing the drivers kind of a hassle. They look soldered on the Xover end, though, and clamped down with spades at the binding post. Anyway, here are a few pics:     I uploaded a few more (as well as these in high resolution) on my Flickr here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/boulderdashcci/sets/72157613258783990/ |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3210 Registered: Oct-04 | How did the fix go Freddie? STO is now selling the EVO2-10 for $459/pr., boy am I glad I grabbed a pair for $299 when I did. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 154 Registered: Apr-07 | The second screw helped quite a bit, but didn't end up being the problem. Bob Springston ended up sending me a second tweeter housing that didn't work but showed what the actual issue was. On the bottom of the tweeter, it looks like they machine it out so that it will sit flush on the enclosure. Mine was not machined out, so the bottom can basically rock back and forth on the enclosure when it's not tightened down. Having the one screw caused it to be pulled to one side when it was tightened down. the second screw evened it out and while it's still not as flush as it should be (the other housing will sit flush without being tightened down at all), the leak is gone for the most part and it's not causing any bass distortion which I found it could do if it was tightened down to an extreme on one side leaving the gap larger than it usually was. But yeah, with the two screws in place it seems fine now. Here's a pic of the two housings to show the machining I'm talking about:  (the masking tape on there was an attempt to seal it...didn't help much so I ended up taking it off) On a side note, I'm getting ready to finally get a real amp. On my list to try are the Marantz PM5003, NAD C326bee, and the Cambridge Azur 550A. Should be getting the Marantz next month or so. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3211 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm glad your 10s are sounding better, and I appreciate all the pics, those tweeter housing pics are pretty impressive. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12623 Registered: Feb-05 | Good to hear that you have it worked out and that you will get an amp to match those fine speakers soon. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1464 Registered: Nov-06 | Looks like I am glad that I held out and did not purchase these :-P Art, I know you said that the evo had difficulty in the low mid - upper bass area and sounded muddy (which would drive me nuts). Is it overblown to your ears or just the way the speakers are voiced? The wharfie Sapphire towers (the ones with the blue woofer cones) had a similar sound. They had a very laid back, easy to listen to treble, but had an upper bass-lower mid hump that sounded bose-ish IMHO. But that could also have been cab resonance. At that point I did not know what to listen to and did not hear it when I was auditioning them. Learned lots since then :-) Sorry if this has already been covered. Oh and we are also interested in the Paradigm sig 1. I have not heard it and know nothing about the Be tweets. I don't think I have ever heard a speaker with one. I tried to audition some Focal chorus 807V, but the dealership had klipsch reference speakers playing when I went in there which basically ruined my audition. Same thing led to me hating my current speakers when I first heard them. Sad to say, but I think I am getting so I can tolerate the sound of the 201 and 301 better than this new h0rny stuff. Funny how this happened at 2 different dealerships. But my kefs are not going anywhere for the time being :-) The more I listen, I am finding that I am really going to have to look to find something we both consider an upgrade (and have the wallet to go with it hehehe). I am just halfarse looking right now if I see something, and not really going out of my way to do it. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12689 Registered: Feb-05 | "Looks like I am glad that I held out and did not purchase these :-P" Why? I don't really remember what I said about the bass. I can say with certainty that they were an excellent speaker for the money I paid and quite a bit more. Paradigm Signature series speakers are very nice and the S2 is still my wife's dream speaker, that is if I don't give her my 8's. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1465 Registered: Nov-06 | "The Evo2-10 , like the Diamond 9.1 is muddier and weightier in the critical midrange/upper bass area which is a mixed bag. You get a fuller yet less detailed sound...mixed bag." I re-read your post and it appears to me that it is voicing and not really an issue with the speaker, I misinterpreted it and took it to mean that it is too heavy handed in the lower midrange. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1466 Registered: Nov-06 | just me putting too much thought into that post :-) |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1467 Registered: Nov-06 | and I can say with certainty that my "ear has changed". I used to enjoy the sound of Klipsch products. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12690 Registered: Feb-05 | Yep, I was comparing the Evo to another speaker and not stating that as it's basic character. The Evo was a fun speaker that I enjoyed a lot when it was here. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 348 Registered: Jan-09 | Art, did you get rid of you Evo 2 10's? What did you relace them with? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12695 Registered: Feb-05 | Sold them quite awhile ago, Mordecai. I replaced them with Audioengine A5's which I hated...they sound fine, but I hated them. I'm going to put together another office system in the next year or two...in the meantime I'm using a lovely little vintage Marantz 2220B receiver with a pair of Jamo C401 speakers. Sounds nice and will do until I can upgrade. Even when I do upgrade I'll be keeping the Marantz as a tuner. Back in the summer of 1974, a Marantz 2220B was the heart of my first real HiFi...I love it. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 157 Registered: Apr-07 | I've always been curious about those Marantz receivers....do you think one would be worth looking into over the integrated amps I mentioned? I can't see it not being enough for the Evos....maybe a bit too warm though. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 349 Registered: Jan-09 | Thanks Art. So why did you get rid of them if I may ask. I thought you really liked them. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12697 Registered: Feb-05 | Freddie, the Marantz is a fun bit of nostalgia for me and accidentally sounds pretty good too. But if you have the option for better and the 2220B doesn't mean to you what it does to me, I would not pursue it. Mordecai, the Wharfies were just a bit big for the room and somehow still weren't what I'm looking for in that room. Honestly, I'm really not sure what that is at this point. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 350 Registered: Jan-09 | I understand Art. I went through 4 pairs before stopping with the 10's. I took your advice and decided to listen to the music for a while and to wait until I could purchase an IA and speakers that is a significant upgrade to what I have. I am very happy right now although I admit I am still looking. I would like to try a pair of Paradigm's Studio 20's V4. For now I am on hold and enjoying the music! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12699 Registered: Feb-05 | Excellent, Mordecai. I'm happy to read that you are enjoying the music at present, me too. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 161 Registered: Apr-07 | Ended up buying a Marantz PM5003... Will have it to play with in a week. I'm not sure what to take from the demo I just had...On the plus side I brought my speakers (the Evos) in so I wasn't trying to listen to amp characteristics through speakers I've never heard before. On the down side they didn't have either model I was after, so I ended up on a Marantz surround receiver vs a 315BEE for the demo. Obviously not ideal, but was told the voicing is going to be similar throughout lines. I spent about an hour going back and forth, and the Marantz easily beat the NAD. It sounded far more detailed in the high end than the NAD, and just overall more enjoyable to listen to. The NAD might have been a little bassier, but all in all I liked the Marantz a lot more. My dad heard a pretty clear difference and preferred the Marantz too. We also went between two CD players, the Marantz CD5003 which I have and one of the NADs, I think about at the same level. There was a bigger difference than I would have expected here too, with the Marantz/Marantz combo easily being best. I'm still curious about the Cambridge Azur A550, and I have a week after I get the Marantz to figure that out. But after hearing the C315BEE, and it's CD player counterpart, I'm not sure I'm interested in NAD. I know these are entry level pieces and I'm sure they get better as you move up, but I just wasn't crazy about the voicing. Oh, and from what I heard, the Evos are easily better than the B&W 686 as well as whatever PSBs they had set up. 686s sounded kinda boomy, PSBs sounded like they were straining through the whole range. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12791 Registered: Feb-05 | You listened to the two models by NAD that have the least going for them. I have a local NAD dealer who talks his customers out of buying those models. He is also a Marantz dealer and prefers the NAD C326BEE over the comparably priced Marantz by a distance, so do I. Marantz is better than it used to be so I will give it that. Also Marantz AVR's are my default recommendation for AVR's. Well built and they sound good as well. Good to find out how good your Wharfie's are isn't it? |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 163 Registered: Apr-07 | Yeah, understandable. But from what I had to go on, which admittedly wasn't much, I think I made the right choice, especially after being told the voicing is going to be similar. That said, if the Marantz goes back I doubt I'll go with NAD, even if the C326BEE is that much better. He'd have to order it and I'd rather not take the risk that what I disliked about the 315 would be carried over. I would probably go for the Azur in that case, since that's the one I've always been most interested in out of the 3. To add to that, the guy I spoke to at Wild West said the Azur and Evo combo is pretty amazing. But for now I'm not even going to think about all that and just enjoy the Marantz. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12792 Registered: Feb-05 | Different strokes, no way I'd take a comparably priced CA over the 326BEE. I think the Marantz will do just fine...let us know what you think. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3977 Registered: Feb-07 | Different strokes for sure Art. I'd choose the CA over a NAD, generally. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12795 Registered: Feb-05 | Certainly some, for instance at the top end of both ranges I'd probably choose the CA over the NAD however at those prices I would choose neither. At $500 nothing I've heard is better than the C326BEE. For a few bucks more, the Rega Brio 3 is real fun amp and with a nice phono pre. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3978 Registered: Feb-07 | Rega amps are ones that I've never heard, although I'd sure like to someday. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15074 Registered: Dec-04 | You might like Rega, Dave. Small and fast, mostly. Always small power. The NAD BEE is where that pricepoint is at, for this season at least. All heresay. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12797 Registered: Feb-05 | Most Rega amps are OK but a little lifeless. The Mira 3 is nice for the dough but still leaves you wanting. The Brio 3 is a genuine good value amp. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3067 Registered: Jun-07 | Small and fast David, but as musical as a stick. Lifeless is right. Dig Rega amps a hole and buy it a casket. My dealer is both a NAD and Cambridge Audio dealer and the owner and all sales reps agree they prefer a similar priced CA over NAD. Me? not sure. I think it comes down to preference. If I were personally shopping for a 500 amp I would buy CA. I think NAD has a higher end product with their new Masters series than CA is producing, but again another opinion that some will disagree on. If I were shopping for a high end amp however I wouldn't be even considering neither. Congrats on the Marantz Freddie. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 674 Registered: Dec-06 | Well, it all depends, right? What does someone like personally? And what is the associated gear? I can easily imagine CA sounding better in one system, while NAD sounds better in another. And maybe even an amp that costs significantly more than both will not necessarily sound better. Again, depending on the circumstances. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3068 Registered: Jun-07 | I completely agree Dan. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3219 Registered: Oct-04 | I owned the CA Azur 340A, NAD C740, and Marantz SR5400 at the same time for a period, and while not exactly an apples to apples comparison, I preferred the C740 over the 340A, and I preferred the SR5400 over the C740. I believe I was using a CA Azur 540D Player & Mission M32i at the time. As I recall, the CA gear was extremely well built, really very solid, with a very neutral presentation, a little too neutral for my taste at that time, but if I had the space, I wouldn't mind still owning it. Similarly, I wouldn't mind still owning the C740, or it's modern-day equivalent the the C725BEE, they just sound good to my ear, but the SR5400 was the sole survivor, it has always impressed me more than any other amp I've owned, and the damn thing is an six-channel HT receiver (90W per). Not sure that helps. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12799 Registered: Feb-05 | Above $500 I wouldn't buy either amp (CA or NAD). The C326BEE is the sweet spot in either line up for me. Too many good alternatives up the food chain including buying used. Lots of great used options. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12800 Registered: Feb-05 | The first time I heard the Oppo super BD player (whatever the model is) it was on a Marantz AVR. They are simply very well done...the best on the market to my ears. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 351 Registered: Jan-09 | Art - Is the 326 better than the 325? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12801 Registered: Feb-05 | Just a bit. Shorter signal paths and better internal layout. Sound quality on the C326BEE is good enough for me to consider one for my second system and perhaps give it a try in my main rig just for giggles. It's a great little amp. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3069 Registered: Jun-07 | It is definitely a great little amp. I too think the 326bee is an improvement over the 325. I also agree with Art on the used market having some very good buys around the 500 dollar mark. I am looking for an office amp. Could have bought the 326bee with the money I spent on a new Digital SLR camera today. Oh well, gotta get some good pics of Ava and the improved two channel system. :D |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15077 Registered: Dec-04 | Given the 'new' and pricepoint, I have to agree that the 326BEE is the first NAD that I like enough to recommend. I heard it with PSB B25 speakers, so bass heavy. The owner liked bass heavy, and this did it, easily. A heavy load for a smallish amp, but no issues that I heard, and the bass was as good as the B25's could do. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3979 Registered: Feb-07 | A good camera is a much better investment than audio gear right now Nick. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 164 Registered: Apr-07 | Almost bought a Canon Rebel over the amp, but since I have a Canon S90 (which does RAW) right now I figured I'd wait on that. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12805 Registered: Feb-05 | I need a new camera...maybe next year. Thinking about a Panasonic Luminex (or something like that). Going to stay under $300 when I do. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 165 Registered: Apr-07 | Art, the Canon Powershot SX120 ($250ish) is pretty good in that price range. I know quite a few people with it or one of it's predecessors and they're all happy. The S90 (about $350 right now) is great too, especially for low light stuff, but unless you're wanting to get into more advanced stuff (using manual controls all the time, shooting RAW and editing in Photoshop, etc.) it might be overkill as it's nothing overly special when just using auto modes. But the SX120 is a great semi advanced point and shoot, which takes nice photos in auto and has manual controls if you need it. Edit: Actually just checked and the SX120 is only $180 right now. Great deal for sure. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12807 Registered: Feb-05 | Going to try to pay off all of my debt in the next year. Only room in the budget for music and the occasional audio piece. The lens on the Panasonic's are supposed to be pretty special. That's why I'm looking at them. I have a cheapo Canon now which I like. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3070 Registered: Jun-07 | I like the Pannys too for the price point. Freddie - I was at a camera shop (Henry's) for about an hour today talking with the experts and playing with some camera's. Went in thinking entry level Digital SLR. It came down to two camera's at that level and they were the Canon Digital Rebel XS and the Nikon D3000. Based on features that I was looking for like the 11 point SRS and a few others the Rebel didn't have I went with the Nikon D3000 and the basic 15 to 55mm lens. Got a 20mb/s SDHC card through work ordered for cheap as well. Could of bought the 326bee but Danielle was on board for the camera so I wasn't going to argue.lol. Went next door to Future Poopie (Best Crap) and picked up Deftones new cd too. Ripped some movies to the MC today. Anyone see Shutter Island yet? Very very good. Sorry to get off Topic. Yes I really do like the NAD 326bee and will be on my short list for a third system. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 166 Registered: Apr-07 | My friend has the D3000 with the kit lens too and it seems to take very nice pictures, although I think he mostly uses auto. I've been trying to get him to use manual modes and shoot RAW but I don't think he has yet. The one I wanted was the XSi which is basically last year's T1i, which B&H Photo had a used one for $450 but I wasn't able to get it in time. Definitely going to move up to an SLR at some point though. I do know when I get one I'm getting the 50mm F1.8 lens for sure. My S90 goes to F2.0, and I'm so used to it that I don't think I could go back to F3.5 that the kit lens does. It's nice to be able to hand hold night shots lol. And yeah Shutter Island was pretty sweet, though I preferred The Departed. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3071 Registered: Jun-07 | For sure Freddie. My first and possibly final upgrade will be a better lens. I played with the XSi, its very nice. In that price range check out the Nikon D5000 and D7000 too. Pretty comparable just depends on what floats your boat. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 167 Registered: Apr-07 | Little more delay with the amp - They've got the PM5004 coming out in 3 weeks or so which I'm told has an improved power supply, preamp stage, and phono stage for the same price as the 5003, so I'm going to wait that out. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12810 Registered: Feb-05 | Good idea Freddie. Just remember that newer isn't always better. If you can listen to them both that would be helpful. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1228 Registered: Oct-07 | I've been a Canon user for over 35 years. The Nikon Kit lens is WAY better than the Canon glass. After that, it's all what works best for you. How your hands fit the controls and how comfortable you are using it. A FAST normal lens.....the fixed 50mm....is a terrific idea. The Canon lens is real cheap and great results. Plastic lens mount and only 5 aperture blades.....some don't like its bokah. I'm sure Nikon makes something similar, but it'll be more $$$ |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 168 Registered: Apr-07 | The Nikon equivalent is only around $30 more than the Canon (which only puts it at $130). The Canon one seems to be excellent for the price, at least according to some of the pics I've seen on Flickr. How is the Nikon kit better than the Canon? Less barrel distortion? Anything that can't be fixed in post? And yeah Art, but either way he has to order it so I'm pretty much going in blind no matter what. I know the 5004 has a current feedback preamp stage and the 5003 does not....how that translates to real world performance I do not know. But either way I'm looking forward to it....You have to remember I'm coming off of an entry level Onkyo AVR. I think either way it's going to be a step up. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12811 Registered: Feb-05 | I hope for the best for you, Freddie. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3072 Registered: Jun-07 | Thanks for the info Leo. I am loving the Nikon. Shooting some pics in RAW and its just insane how good the pictures look. For me anyway.lol. I am an amateur for sure. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 169 Registered: Apr-07 | RAW/editing is pretty fun, I've been getting into that a lot lately. Have any of your pics online, on like Flickr or something? |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 352 Registered: Jan-09 | Art, let me know if you come across someone selling their 326BEE. Been watching Audiogon but I have not see one for sale yet. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12866 Registered: Feb-05 | Will do. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 353 Registered: Jan-09 | I found a 326BEE refurbed at Spirit Sound for $399. Anyone done business with Spirit Sound? Any reason not to purchase a refurb? I plan to buy one today. The used market for the 326 is not prevalent and the last one I saw was $375. I doubt I will find one for much cheaper. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4046 Registered: Feb-07 | I've bought a few things from them. Good guys... |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 354 Registered: Jan-09 | Thanks David. Any thoughts on refurbed products? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4047 Registered: Feb-07 | Shouldn't be an issue, their refurbs come with a full warranty. http://www.spearitsound.com/refurbished.htm |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3247 Registered: Oct-04 | I've bought quite a few refurbs from Spearit Sound and have never had a single issue, functional or cosmetic, with anything. In addition to that, the salesmen have always been very helpful & I think they even have a trade-in program. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 355 Registered: Jan-09 | Thanks Chris and David. I spoke with the salesmen and asked him about the difference between the 325 and 326. He said I won't hear much difference if any. They are essentially the same amp. This gives me pause. I don't want to buy the same product. Of course he recommended the 355 or 375 which he should do since he is a salesmeen. Maybe I should just wait to buy when I can move up in sound quality. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12888 Registered: Feb-05 | I agree, Mordecai. The 326 is a bit better than the 325 but not enough to consider it an upgrade. So I turn 50 on Sunday...the 4th of July...and my wife gave me my birthday present early. Just what I wanted but knew she couldn't afford, the Panasonic Lumix ZS6 camera I've been talking about!. I'm stoked. Tomorrow it's off for the annual pilgrimage to Seattle to record shop...yippie! |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 356 Registered: Jan-09 | Happy Birthday Art. I just turned 52 in June. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1517 Registered: Nov-06 | Happy birthday Art! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12897 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks guys...listening to some of my plunder now! |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 171 Registered: Apr-07 | Happy bday Art! Sorry for being late, didn't see this until just now. How are you liking the camera? Any pics from it? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12898 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm enjoying the camera. I have a whole bunch to learn. First, I need a tripod. Especially when using the zoom. Lots of fun. Enjoyed some awesome hifi in Seattle via a couple of visits to Hawthorne Stereo and a wonderful host named Dominic Mihovich. The Naim XS is just a kicken' amp and loves DeVore's earlier speakers, the Gibbon 3's and Gibbon 8's. All other more recent DeVore speakers are more a tube only endeavor. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 172 Registered: Apr-07 | So after 2 and a half weeks turned into a month and a half, I should finally have the 5004 tonight. Pics to come. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12939 Registered: Feb-05 | Very good, Freddie! |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 173 Registered: Apr-07 | Uh....it's got some balls for being 35w/channel....a lot more punchy than the Onkyo for sure. Will post more when I've had it for more than 20 minutes lol.  |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12944 Registered: Feb-05 | Beautiful setup, Freddie! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13849 Registered: Feb-05 | Somewhere Mordecai asked if the C326BEE is better than the C325BEE. I've spent the weekend listening to the C326BEE, yeah it's better, alot better. The C326BEE has a warmer sound than the older C325BEE which will not suit some folks. That is the last place where the 325 outperforms the 326. The 326 is more detailed and has much better timing. I've been surprised all weekend at how good the timing is with this integrated. I'm using it with Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's, a Panasonic BD player and Blue Jeans cables. Obviously, source is the weak link. I would say that if you are looking for the best sounding integrated that I've heard this side of a grand look no further than the C326BEE. Do be warned though, if you like a brighter sound this amp is not for you. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 404 Registered: Jan-09 | Art, I picked up a used C372 that was only used in a vacation home so it has minimal hours on it. I got it for $400. I did consider and almost bought a refurb 326. I am enjoying the 372 and I'm working on speaker placement as I moved to a new room in the house. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Canada Post Number: 3426 Registered: Jun-07 | The 316bee is a HUGE improvement over the 315bee as well. It will take a good while for NAD to build up their reputation again but they are doing all the right things. IT would appear they have fully changed over their manufacturing plant and are using a lot of the parts from the Masters series in their low budget stuff. Great sounding units for the buck. Budget kings once more. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 405 Registered: Jan-09 | Out of curiosity, does anyone know how the 326 compares to the 372? I realize the 372 has more power, so I am talking about sound quality. I know how the 372 compares to the 325 since I have both. My 325 is for sale on eCoustics by the way. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13857 Registered: Feb-05 | Can't say that I know how they compare. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3484 Registered: Oct-04 | My HK3490 has really helped push my EVO2-10 to another level, edging them ever so closer to the top of the heap of the best I've heard in the sub $800 category. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13902 Registered: Feb-05 | Sounds like you are enjoying the new amp. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3485 Registered: Oct-04 | I haven't done too much listening of late, but have had time over the past few weeks to spend some time with this gear. I'm now using my DVD48 via coax to HK3490's DAC, which is a significant improvement over my former DVD37 via analog to HK3485 set-up. The overall sense of space & instrument placement has changed, and to my ear, improved, as have the EVO's overall performance, from bottom to top. There are several tweaks I plan on over next few days, get around to building & loading my Sanus Designer Foundation 24" stands, swap my Dayton speaker cables for Belden 5000UE cables, and swap out the stock pre-amp jumpers for AudioQuest jumpers. On a side note, I'm selling my Tekton 4.5 & Infinity Beta 20 w/24" Dayton stands, both sets of speakers I would love to hold on to, but don't have a home for currently. PM me if you are interested. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 14540 Registered: Feb-05 | Well Freddie you've had it for more than 20 minutes, what say you. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 205 Registered: Apr-07 | Heh, wow, I completely forgot about this thread. The Marantz has been good enough that I haven't felt the need to change anything in my system since I got it. Actually, that's not totally true, as since getting it I've ditched the sub in favor of the loudness curve which I know is pretty taboo around here, but to me this sounds spot on with everything I can throw at it. My reference is kick drum volume and impact in relation to the rest of the music (relative to volume of course) and this configuration has me pretty happy. For only 30w or whatever they spec it at this thing has some kick to it. Aside from some Focal stands I picked up last night very cheap (I believe they're rebaged Target MR70s, loaded with sand or lead shot or what ever is in them they weigh a good 70lbs each), the only thing I've been investing in is my CD collection. And vinyl. Which is silly because as of right now I have no way of playing it, I'm just a sucker for the art. Which is what brings me back here. I'm wanting to pick up an entry level table, preferably under $500. Right now I'm thinking the Rega RP1 or the Pro-ject Debut III, which seem to be the two most highly regarded in that price range. Anyone have experience with either of these? Setup is pretty much the same as before... Wharfie Evos Marantz PM5004 (built in pre which was highly regarded in Stereophile's review of the 5003) Marantz CD5003 no sub Thanks guys. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 15351 Registered: Feb-05 | I've owned both and presently own the RP1. It's almost as good as the P3-2000. Definitely better than the Debut III. BTW, I ditched my sub as well. My system is in a small room anyway. I have the Rega Brio-R with Harbeth P3ESR's now. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 206 Registered: Apr-07 | Cool, thanks for the info Art. I'm going to go ahead and order the RP1. How is it out of the box with the stock cart? How do you like the Harbeths? Do they compare well to the Devores you had before? |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 207 Registered: Apr-07 | Just pulled the trigger, should be here Friday or Saturday. Can't wait to listen to the original 1997 press of Godspeed You Black Emporer's F#A#infinity I just got |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 15352 Registered: Feb-05 | The Harbeth's are a very small speaker and can't fill a room like the DeVore's. That said in the 9x10 space that I'm currently using they do an awesome job of filling the space. They are a sealed design with a very gentle roll off from 75hz to 35hz giving what appears to be real bass in a small space. They are a more natural sounding speaker than the DeVore's and even in the same room you could hear that they painted a more accurate picture of each instruments relationship with the others. I would still like to get a larger speaker for occasionally listening in the living room but I'm happy with this system in my small space. Still ironing out my digital source. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 208 Registered: Apr-07 | The cable on the Rp-1 is a lot shorter than I was expecting so until I can pick something up hopefully over the weekend it's sitting on top of my amp :-/ This thing sounds great though.....kind of bright but I'd think that will settle down over time. I'm playing Broken Social Scene's You Forgot It In People and it sounds excellent. Soundstage is phenomenal. |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 209 Registered: Apr-07 | http://www.flickr.com/photos/boulderdashcci/6815274941/in/photostream Enjoying some Explosions In The Sky. Can't get over how damn good this thing sounds. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 15356 Registered: Feb-05 | The RP1 is a phenomenal little deck. I love mine! |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 210 Registered: Apr-07 |   |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 15416 Registered: Feb-05 | Right on, Freddie! |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiFort Worth, Texas Post Number: 487 Registered: Jan-09 | What brand are your stands Freddie? |
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Silver Member Username: BoulderdashcciCanton, Massachusetts USA Post Number: 211 Registered: Apr-07 | They're older Focals, but I believe they may be rebadged Target MR70s. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiFort Worth, Texas Post Number: 488 Registered: Jan-09 | I thought they looked like Targets. |
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