Mordecai's Speaker Cable Thread
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8971 Registered: Feb-05 | A place for speaker cable discussion. Discuss theory, post links and the like. Enjoy! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13354 Registered: May-04 | OK, here are the reasons typically given for using thick, low (14-10) gauge speaker cables; http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_216.html http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/home-theater-wiring.html http://www.aperionaudio.com/AperionU/choose_speaker-wiring.aspx http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/learningcenter/home/speakers_wire.html http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/speaker-cable-gauge Of the bunch the Audioholics article is the most conservative in suggesting no more than 30' runs of 16A.W.G. cable with this proviso; "What happens when you exceed these distances? Power loss and reduced damping factor to the speaker (the ratio of the rated speaker impedance to the output impedance of the amplifier) occurs over the distance of the cable. This means reduced sound quality. To put it bluntly, a thinner gauge wire over an extended length will introduce its own significant amount of impedance (50 feet of 24 AWG wire calculates to be 2.62 ohms, for example). When you're dealing with an 8-ohm speaker, thats roughly 2.5dB of insertion loss! You can see how this added impedance can dramatically affect the sound." Well, since they don't spell this out for you, it's possible not everyone can see why "this added impedance can dramatically affect the sound". I'm here to ask, how does it affect the sound? ******* A good response to that question is here; http://www.soundstage2.com/lasvegas2009/sd07.html "Do youthink these amps/speakers could run 400wpc? Look at the twisted pair between the 2 channels." ******* To begin with the first and foremost reasoning provided for low gauge cables is the length of the cable run. I agree with the idea that thicker cables are best for longer runs, say, over 50'. The logic behind this is the "insertion loss" due to the resistance in a thin gauge cable. However, insertion loss as a function of the cable itself is largely a linear function with all frequencies dropping off at near equal levels. The end result is you have to produce more power for the same volume though the "sound quality" is for the most part unaffected in any other way in an ideal cable. Even Audioholics in their article states "If you're in a typical theater room you'd have to have a very thin gauge of speaker wire for your surrounds (like 20-gauge) before you were able to tell the difference audibly in most cases - and even then you'd have to listen critically and compare the same source to the fronts. Add to this the fact that most people have different speakers for surrounds than they do for the fronts... Add to that room acoustics... Add to that the expected amount of use the surrounds get and the differing program material they receive than the fronts... and it becomes even more of a non-critical issue. In your example I would doubt very much that there would be any audible difference between 18- and 16-gauge unless your surrounds utilized cable lengths of more than 30-40 feet. There would most certainly be a measurable difference - but that's not always as important." If you look at a few things here, you'll see why I recommend thin cables rather than thick snakes. First, there is no ideal cable so other factors such as capacitance and inductance of the cable construction become more important by far than the DC resistance of the cable alone. The exception to that would be poorly constructed cables that intentionally or unintentionally result in high DC resistance. However, even here we are really talking not about what you run to your surround speakers - use a decent cable - but to your front main speakers which are probably less than a few feet away from the amplifier. Constrict the cable length to no more than 10-12' per side and now DC resistance becomes a factor so negligible as to be a non-issue. Another point made for thick cables is their affect on the amplifier's "damping factor". Damping factor is, for the most part, a non-issue here. It is, first, a highly dynamic figure that varies with frequency depending on the load presented to the amplifier. Most solid state, direct coupled amplifiers have an inherently high damping factor qouted in the specifications, 100:1 to as high as 1,000:1. Twelve feet of well constructed speaker cable is not going to change the damping factor of the amplifier as much as the reactive load of the speaker will. Damping factor as a reason for thick cables is, IMO, a non-issue also. Damping factor is related to the reactive load of the loudspeaker and therefore the reactive load should be considered here. The higher the output impedance of your amplifier the more reactive it will be to the load it works into. A speaker that presnts a very reactive load - a wildly swinging impedance curve dipping beneath four Ohms coupled with a highly capacitive or inductive electrical phase angle - will cause some deviations in the overall frequency repsonse of the system. Two things to consider here are; 1) once again direct coupled solid state amplifiers have a very low output impedance as a rule and, 2) it's up to you to do a good job matching your speakers to your amplifier. The lower the output impedance of your amplifier the less the deviation in response will be to even a highly reactive load. Buy a speaker that doesn't demand arc welding capacity from your amplifier and this becomes a non-issue. High cuurent delivery from your amplifier is the result of a highly reactive load, minimize the load's reactance and you minimize the amount of current required. Even at its worst in the average home system, how much current is required at what voltage and for how long? These are the factors which determine what gauge cable you will need, amperage and voltage combined over time. What gauge cable would be needed at minimum to handle the requirements of your system? Take for example the inner workings of your speakers. What gauge cable is used internally in your speakers? Is that gauge due to the needs of the system or the requirements of the marketing department? What gauge wire is used in the inductors and voice coils of your system? Probably much thinner than the speaker cable you are using. If there is 18-26 A.W.G. wire somewhere in your system, does it make sense to use 10 A.W.G. speaker cable up to the speaker binding posts? Finally for now, how do you get manageable 10 A.W.G. cable? By stranding the wires into bunches to maske the overall cable more flexible. For those of you who haven't compared stranded to solid core cable, this might be an interesting experiment. Unfortunately, anything much beyond a 16 A.W.G. solid core cable becomes difficult to manage and high quality copper in lower gauges is extremely difficult and costly to find. In most cases the quality of the copper conductor itself will have more affect on the cables desirability for use in a audio system than the gauge or the construction. You could order some thin gauge (uninsulated) fine silver to use as a speaker cable but that will require a bit more work to construct a safe cable and you won't be comparing apples to apples with most aftermarket consumer audio cables. My suggestion here is to use thin gauge solid core cabling that suits only the needs of the system and no more. For decades Radio Shack 18 A.W.G. hook up wire was a Stereophile Recommended Component described as a "ridiculously inexpensive way" to acquire quality sound from a speaker cable. The hook up cable is no longer available from RS but 18 A.W.G. magnet wire - the same stuff AntiCables sells for lots more money and in thicker, "more testosterone friendly" gauges - is still available in a pack for about $5. I suggest you give it a try before you spend ridiculous money on fancy speaker cables. Actually, I suggest you use the thinnest cable possible to suit the needs of your system, the RS package has a selection of two thinner gauge cables to try if you wish. I can't promise what you'll hear since I have no idea what you listen for or how your system is actually put together. if your speakers are highly reactive loads, this is not likely to be your cup of tea. On the other hand, if you have wisely purchased speakers that are relatively stable in impedance and phase angle, this might be one of the least expensive routes to good sound you can find in the consumer audio market. If you try these cables and like their sound, let me know and I'll give some ideas for a nicely constructed package to enclose your new cables that won't affect the sound quality of the system. Otherwise, my opinion would be there are far more imprtant issues to deal with in a speaker or interconnect cable than how thick they should be. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13356 Registered: May-04 | . I had to stop by my local RS today and I found the hook up wire has not been discontinued, only out of stock for awhile. It's still available in red and black insulated varieties. If you decide instead to try the magnet wire, you'll have to scrape the lacquer dielectric (insulation) from each end of each conductor leg until you see shiny, clean copper. A single edge razor blade works well for this purpose. Forgo any banana plugs or other connectors and use a bare wire connection between amp and speakers. Lastly here, if you think you prefer the solid core to a stranded cable but want to experiment with a heavier gauge cable just to hear what happens, double or even triple your solid core runs to each speaker. Two runs of 18A.W.G. cable will be roughly the equivalent of a 15 A.W.G. cable. If you hear no difference with the double run, step back to the single run cable as any configuration of multiple strands will likely increase either capacitance or inductance in the overall cable. Twisting the cable runs together increases the capacitance while running the legs closely together in parallel runs increases the inductance of the cable. Due to the lack of a conventional insulator the magnet wire has very low inherent capcitance which is typical of a cable using a plastic, polyvinyl or Teflon dielectric. . |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2128 Registered: Feb-07 | Interesting post Jan. I sorta jumped on that "thicker is better" bandwagon awhile ago, which is why I run 10 AWG cable in both my system. Speaking of solid core cable, do you think it would be worthwhile trying out 14/2 electrical cabling? I have tons of it lying around. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2383 Registered: Oct-04 | You have seen this Dave, right? http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html If it's just lying around why not just try it for yourself & see. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2131 Registered: Feb-07 | That's awesome! I may need another set of IC's soon. I wonder if the sell that patio cord here in Canada? I'll have to make a note to check it out next time I'm at Walmart. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2385 Registered: Oct-04 | Dave, "that" patio cord may be not better than the cable you have hanging around. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2134 Registered: Feb-07 | That's true Chris. Seeing as most of my stuff is Blue Jeans, I think it would be difficult to improve on the cost/performance ratio. Plus they look nice. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11621 Registered: Dec-04 | I use the very same walmart outdoor extension cord. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2390 Registered: Oct-04 | "Seeing as most of my stuff is Blue Jeans, I think it would be difficult to improve on the cost/performance ratio." Maybe? http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize021998.htm These are what I'm using, although they're a bit more expensive now than when I bought them a few years ago; I think I paid $30. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=181-600 |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2391 Registered: Oct-04 | And are you happy with that cord Nuck? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13359 Registered: May-04 | . "Speaking of solid core cable, do you think it would be worthwhile trying out 14/2 electrical cabling? I have tons of it lying around." "For those of you who haven't compared stranded to solid core cable, this might be an interesting experiment. Unfortunately, anything much beyond a 16 A.W.G. solid core cable becomes difficult to manage and high quality copper in lower gauges is extremely difficult and costly to find. In most cases the quality of the copper conductor itself will have more affect on the cables desirability for use in a audio system than the gauge or the construction." * "You have seen this Dave, right? http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html If it's just lying around why not just try it for yourself & see." Given the size of center post provided on all but the most obscene audio jewlery, soldering this 16 A.W.G. conductor to the average RCA plug will be difficult even for those experienced in soldering techniques. The cable does sound quite good though. Remember, it is unshielded and not appropriate for all situations. Off hand I would first suggest you try http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize021998.htm I'm still in favor of thin, solid core conductors for interconnects or speaker cabling. Minimze the amount of metal in your RCA's, try the RS solderless type. * I can't be certain but I think Nuck means he uses the outdoor extension cable for his weed whacker. . |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2143 Registered: Feb-07 | Wasn't there one of these packing tape IC's circulating for awhile? |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1773 Registered: May-06 | Yes, plus JV is supposed to be testing out an upgraded version of it.... |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11636 Registered: Dec-04 | George has the local one david, from MW. It is the US Walmart outdoor 16g patio cable that I am using, indoors, jv, and it works fine, no restrictions that i can hear. I have not tried anything else beyond the Liberty 16g biwire that I have here. I have a prodigeous amount of 14/2 available(hehe), If I have time I will put in a couple of runs just for the heck of it. I will look in ratshack in the US next week for sommore magnet wire. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 28 Registered: Jan-09 | IS this the RS cable you are talking about Jan? http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2036274 http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049744 |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2395 Registered: Oct-04 | If you want to go the skinny solid-wire route, this is what you want, http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062640 http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062641 |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 29 Registered: Jan-09 | Jan - Did you say with the solid core to not use a banana plug? I would think you could go straight into the receiver and speaker with solid core wire. I may give both the RS cables a try. Do you suggest using the 1/2 or 3/4 cable wrap to put the wire in? What issue will I have with unshielded wires in a 2.0 setup? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13365 Registered: May-04 | . Any of those RS cables are a good starting point and cheap enough to try them all. Yes, use bare wire connections with these cables, no plugs. I don't know what you're saying with "1/2 or 3/4 cable wrap". You'll have no problems with unshielded speaker cable but you might with unshielded interconnects. . |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1777 Registered: May-06 | This is what I use: Magnet Wire Set http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=magnet%20wire&origkw=Magn et%20Wire&sr=1 |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 32 Registered: Jan-09 | Michael or anyone - If I use the Magnet wire or any solid copper wire do I need to keep the positive and negative separate? Can I twist them together? Do I need to put some kind of jacket(cover) on them? I need to see pictures I guess cause I'm not great with electrical wiring and stuff. I'm just having a hard time imagining how they should look. I need two pairs of ten foot cable one pair for each speaker (not biwiring). I know I can connect straight to the speaker and receiver. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithCanada Post Number: 2215 Registered: Feb-04 | Can't have a speaker wire thread without the Roger Russell link: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9006 Registered: Feb-05 | "Can't have a speaker wire thread without the Roger Russell link" God knows I wish we could though Peter. Nice seein' ya again. Hope those K'horns are keeping ya smilin'! |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 33 Registered: Jan-09 | Well, after reading what Roger has to say I should have just picked up the Monster Cable 10 foot pairs I saw at Fry's for $6.99. I doubt I could tell the difference either. I still may get some of some 14-16 gauge solid wire just for giggles since it is not to expensive. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13366 Registered: May-04 | . Mordecai, just run the cables without any jacketing for now. Do not twist them together. Keep the conductor legs parallel and spaced as far apart as possible. If you think they might work, then we can get into how to make then look and work better. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1778 Registered: May-06 | Mordecai, a lot of us here can hear differences in cables, interconnects, speaker wire, and power cords. Maybe an equal amount of folks cannot, however my informal survey of eCoustics makes me think there are more folks that hear differences than those that do not. Back up to your earlier post about the magnet wire. The magnet wire is already insulated and you would need to trim away about 1/2" at each end using a straight razor. The best way to run the speaker wire is to use packing taper wit the (+) and (-) of the wires as far to the opposite edges of the tape as you can place them securely. The whole packing tape thing is to tape a length, 10 feet in you circumstance, face up on a counter top, secure the magnet wire in place on the edges, then place another piece of packing tape face down over the face up piece. It is useful to have someone help you do this, particularly for alignment of the tape. Repeat for the other speaker wire. When I was employing an 80 watt borrowed amp I used two strands of 28awg braided together. When I went to my 300 wpc amp I had to add several more individual wires to increase the overall gauge. It is experimental and you have to just keep adding and subtracting until it sounds just right. It is not as much effort as you might think and when you weigh in the cost to the sound benefit it is no effort at all. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 34 Registered: Jan-09 | Okay, the RS I went didn't have the solid wire in the length I needed. I decided to buy the 12 gauge hook up wire. I am using ten foot for each run with gold plated banana plugs. Let me say that I can't say I could pick out the 12 gauge wire from the 16 gauge (Monster) wire in a blind test but I will say the bass seems fuller and deeper. It seems to be smoothe sounding too. This could be that these speakers are opening up as put more hours on them. At the least these wire sounds as good as the Monster. Now, I am going to try find some solid wire in 16 or 18 gauge and give that a try too. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 35 Registered: Jan-09 | I am going to stay with either the 12 ga or 18 ga solid wire for a while. I would like to make them look a little better. I am thinking of using something like this. http://cableorganizer.com/braided-sleeving/ What do you think? Any different suggestions or places I can find this stuff cheaper? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9015 Registered: Feb-05 | You could just buy a nice terminated set from Blue Jeans and be done with it. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13369 Registered: May-04 | . If you want something that looks better than the RS wire and has gold plated banana plugs, you really should buy a prepackaged cable. You can construct a very nice cable with the RS wire but it won't look "better" than the home made cable it is without screwing with the concept of why the RS wire works. . |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 515 Registered: Jul-07 | I gave the 18 awg hook-up wire a try on the weekend. I wish I would have tried it earlier. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2202 Registered: Feb-07 | Big difference? |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 516 Registered: Jul-07 | I don't know if I'd say big. Certainly noticeable, and IMO for the better. Smoother right across the frequency range, like a little sheen has been there all along. What I get is the sense that the cable gets out of the way and just lets the amp drive the speakers. I've been swapping tubes trying to get a little more organic sound, when all along my cables may have been inhibiting the process by showing a little to much of themselves and making the tubes largely sound the same or very similar. I'd speculate that if I swapped tubes now I'd hear far more of the differences in the character of the tubes than I would have with the Zu's. I'll have to test that theory. It's a $6.00 experiment, so it's an easy recommendation that's for sure. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13390 Registered: May-04 | . Did you use bare wire connections? |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 521 Registered: Jul-07 | Yep. Nothin' but wire. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13392 Registered: May-04 | . Do you know the construction of your previous cables? Stranded? Twisted pair? What sort of dielectric? Do your speakers require large amounts of current? |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 528 Registered: Jul-07 | Zu doesn't really say what exactly is inside the cable. Off of their website I get.... Structure - Zu B3 Conducting area +/- ....10 awg RS 0.03 ohms Cp 567 pF Ls 3.5 uH Tolerance 0.1% That's all I got. Here the link http://www.zuaudio.com/cables/loudspeaker.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage =flypage.tpl&product_id=15&category_id=5 My amps only 15 watts, and it drives my speakers at a nice clip with the volume at about 12:30. I measured it at the speaker terminals and at my average listening level I measured about 4 volts peak. The speakers have a very flat impedance load. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 41 Registered: Jan-09 | I'm going with the 12 gauge wire from Monoprice. It is twister pair and it is only 14.00 plus shipping for 50 feet. I still may pick up some 16 or 18 gauge solid wires if I can find a Radio Shack that has it or I may order it. I still would like to hear the solid wire. |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 211 Registered: Dec-07 | I have been using Blue jeans cable 10 AWG speaker cable for a while now and have really enjoyed them. I have thought about bi-wiring but have been very skeptical as most feel there is no benefit. I have Totem Sttaf speakers and Totem recommends bi-wiring, so I thought I would give it a try. I ordered some 14 AWG Canare 4S11 from blue jeans cable to see if there is any improvement. My wife and I listed to one of our favorite cd's and after one song I paused the cd to get her impression. She felt the bass was better defined and that guitars and vocals were much clearer. To be honest I didn't expect to hear much improvement, but I was wrong. What I noticed right away was how much more resolution was there. Voices were clearer and over all detail was better. Imaging also got better, instruments and vocals now come from a more defined space. At louder volumes the increase in resolution is very noticeable, as the music is much more controlled and clear. I am very surprised by all this. I was expecting very little if any gains. I thought I would give it a try for fun and then send them back. They will stay in my system now. I guess this proves that you have to try things for your self. Every ones set up is different. What may work for you, may not work for me, and vice versa. Anyways, I just thought I would share this with you guys. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9135 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks for sharing Steve. I guess it depends on the quality of the cable as well. I know that my R5's would sound better biwired with my vdH D352...however when I biwired with my 14 ga Tributaries there was a decrease in resolution, it just plain didn't sound as good. Steve, you are working with cables of similar quality and I would expect the result you got...however single wiring with high quality cable (not high priced) with jumpers made of the same cable is usually going to sound better than biwiring with poor quality cable...(Not speaking of Blue Jeans stuff which is good quality) or that's been my experience. I recently replaced my D352 jumpers with Paul Speltz Anti Jumpers and the resolution went through the roof and without any of the negatives I experienced with solid core before. It seems to have enhanced the sound of the vdH and added something wonderful of it's own. Can't explain it just know what I heard. |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 212 Registered: Dec-07 | Art, yes I would think the quality of the single wire I had, which was Beldon 10AWG, would be on par with the Canare 4S11 14AWG. The only difference here is the AWG. When I had it single wired with the 10 AWG I also used that same wire for the jumpers. So this improvement was definitely from biwiring. Have you tried biwiring with VDH cable, or cable equal to that? Maybe you should try the anti cables if you like the sound of the anti jumpers. I wonder how biwiring with anti cables would be. |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 85 Registered: May-08 | I tried using the speaker wire to replace the copper jumper on my klipsch RF 10 (run through first speaker port to the second). The guy at a shop said this helps the sound because instead of going through the speaker wire, then through a different kind of jumper it can degrade the sound (this make any sense?). When you take the cover off this wire you had to twist it around with your hands and try and feed it through. Always frayed :S Not sure if it sounded better or not, but I didn't want peices of the wire to get frayed off. Is it easier with different kinds of wire? Perhaps the holes on the speaker wire part were not big enough (too awkward). |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9136 Registered: Feb-05 | I think I'm getting an ideal combination of strengths the way it is. Don't have the dough to buy a second pair of vdH D352's or the Anti Cables at this point. Last time I tried solid core I did not like it so it's very cool that the Anti Jumpers are working very nicely. Kirk, it depends on the wire and the binding posts. The Rega R5's have no space so I had to terminate the speaker cable to use it as a jumper. I had to bend the Anti Jumpers quite a bit as well. Quite fun to hear just how important the jumper really is and how much of a difference bi wiring can make. Ideally biwiring with high quality cable you can seems best. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11771 Registered: Dec-04 | Im running the biwire Liberty 14g, and the yardmaster xtension cord White Lightnin setup as a changeout. The Liberty is working fine with bare ends on the amp and Makamichi Bullets on the 8 posts. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2441 Registered: Oct-04 | Nuck, you have any preferences between the Liberty & YardMaster? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9138 Registered: Feb-05 | Let's try that last sentence again... Ideally biwiring with high quality cable seems best. I still have some liberty around here somewhere I think. Gonna use Blue Jeans 12 ga Belden on the HT |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2442 Registered: Oct-04 | I'll jump threads, and update everyone on the Neon Green Utilitech 16/2 speaker cables I've been using for the last week or so. I'm still very pleased with the overall sound, I can easily live with these cables, even the look of them has grown on me a bit.  I still haven't tried the Belden 5000 cable yet. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9140 Registered: Feb-05 | Electric green. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2443 Registered: Oct-04 | That would seem to be a bit more appropo. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11772 Registered: Dec-04 | I am going to look around for something else, CM, both sets of runs soud pretty much the same to me, with the biwire staying in. I will look for a cable that does not strive to accentuate the bass and roll off the highs. Cm, does your cable not have a green/ground/ The white lightnin cable used that conductor on the + as well. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2444 Registered: Oct-04 | Yes, The Mean Electric Green Cables are 2-wire cord. I think The White Lightning Cables use a 3-wire design because that was the only extension cord that came in white. And yes, I fully understand that in the end everything matters, so I wouldn't expect them to sound exactly the same to those of us with golden ears. That 3rd-green/ground wire must factor into the final sound somehow, but the 2-wire design sounds just fine to me. The electric green 16/2 cord was 100' for $11. so far I've used 25' to replace the cord on my vacuum, and 20' for speaker cables. Nuck, have you considered some of the Mapleshade products? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11773 Registered: Dec-04 | Cm, your whole plce will soon look like it was decorated by the Green Goblin. I have looked at Mapleshade quite a bit, but heres the rub. My buddy is a cabinet maker and will make anything for me. He does it for fun and I cant pay him to save my life. Heavy guilt. Trying to fly them to Europe this summer. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2445 Registered: Oct-04 | Green is the new Red. You must have a boat-load of frequent flyer miles amassed. I take it you've seen these, http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/rootedbuttress.php . |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11774 Registered: Dec-04 | Good gawd, those even dont pass my approval factor in a small room! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9141 Registered: Feb-05 | My new Solidsteel stands are fabulous. Excellent build quality. Highly recommended! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11775 Registered: Dec-04 | Attaboy Art! pics? |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 66 Registered: Jan-09 | Is thicker gauge wire better for biwiring? I was considering the 14 gauge from BJC but I may have free access to 12 gauge. Also, does biwiring do anything for HT speakers? |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 85 Registered: Aug-07 | Jan, best discripton of wire I have ever read. Good Job! Db PS I bi-wire my Logans |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2353 Registered: Feb-07 | I don't really see how thicker cable would be better for bi-wiring Mordecai. Actually, to be honest, I don't even see how bi-wiring could make a difference, but some respected members here believe it does. I'll have to experiment with it myself to see. I use the BJC 10 AWG cable with jumpers made of same for very good results. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 67 Registered: Jan-09 | David - I've heard pros and cons so I thought I would try it myself. I have access to Belden wire for free. If it does not work I can double it up. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11944 Registered: Dec-04 | Mord, did replacing the brass jumper strips with wire make a difference? If so, don't doubt the wire, just try it. |
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