Infinity Primus

 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8568
Registered: Feb-05
Well folks I hope you can keep the laughs to minimum on this.

My wife and I wanted to get a little bigger TV for the HT so we decided to take the Video Only card to get a TV....we also decided to get some speakers with a matching center. Video Only carries Klipsch, Energy, Polk, and Infinity. I went there with a goal...and for $1993 I came away with a Samsung LN46A650, 1 pair of Infinity Primus P252's, 1 pair of Infinity Primus P152's and an Infinity PC350 center channel.

Folks my wife and I were tired of 4.1...much as I'd like to tell ya that the phantom center is as good as havin' the real deal....it ain't! My wife has been griping about the dialogue for quite sometime..Sooooo... the verdict is that so far these Primus speaks ain't half bad. I'd put them against a Paradigm Monitor 7, Atom Monitor and CC290 HT anytime...I may come up short...but not by as much as you might think and maybe not at all. We were very impressed by how much they opened up even during the first DVD.

And here's the bonus....now my Rainmakers and Atom Monitors are free to act as alternates for my other systems...awww life is good!

Prost!
 

Silver Member
Username: Magfan

USA

Post Number: 404
Registered: Oct-07
Success!

And Happy New Year!
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2226
Registered: Jun-07
Awesome Art. Those Infinity speakers are a great bargain, and a nice little speaker. They should also be a nice match with the Yammy AVR. Nice TV too by the way.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1926
Registered: Feb-07
Awesome Art. Sounds like you have a surfeit of good speakers now just like me. A good position to be in.

Have you noticed a big difference with dialogue with the new center?
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8569
Registered: Feb-05
Thanks fella's.

Yep David the dialogue sounds awesome now. Very clear, open and articulate. We are very pleased with results so far. However our 40 inch TV appears to be too big for the bedroom so it's on CL...just bought it a couple of months ago so I don't want to take much of a hit on it.

I always use the Diana Krall Live in Paris DVD as a reference for a new HT's performance and based on that this one is fabulous. My wife likes Moulin Rouge as a reference so we watched that as well...very nice. Today we're off to get a couple of Blu-rays for tonight.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2228
Registered: Jun-07
Hey Art, what Blu-Ray movies you pick up? A few titles with wicked audio are:

Master and Commander
Band of Brothers
We Were Soilders
Dark Knight
Live Free Die Hard
 

Silver Member
Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada

Post Number: 506
Registered: Jun-08
Art, you're just gonna love Dolby True HD with the new 5.1 setup. Going with a matched 5.1 setup is priceless. A big congrats and you'll have to tell us how much more you're hearing on your reference discs as you go along.

Cheers!
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8571
Registered: Feb-05
I have an old receiver not sure I'll be hearing Dolby True HD. So far only have 3 Blu-ray's...Dark Knight, Across the Universe and I picked up The Road Warrior today. Wife didn't buy one...she's being a little timid due to price.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2230
Registered: Jun-07
If the Yamaha has 5.1 or 7.1 analog in Art, you can run RCA cables from the Blu Ray's Analog out to the Yammy's Analog IN, and allow the Blu Ray player decode it which will give you PCM I believe. Then your rock'N.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1927
Registered: Feb-07
That's what I do with my Sony to my CA receiver.

It sounds REALLY good!
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8572
Registered: Feb-05
I have the Sony 350 and it doesn't have the full complemnent of analog outs...

Hey guys it's gonna take me awhile to even have enough Blu-ray discs to care. When I do and my trusty ole Yammy croaks then I'll get a new, higher up Yammy (I'm truly sold on the Yamaha AVR's). For now the awesome picture quality will have to do.

My wife and I are amazed at how well the Sony upconverts our old DVD's...the Oppo has become obsolete in our HT system. May let it compete with my Rotel CD player for a place in my office system.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2266
Registered: Oct-04
Congratulations Art, that is quite a nice HT set-up, the PC350 in particular is quite a beast.

While I haven't heard the P252, if they're anything like the P362, they will certainly hold their own against the Monitor Series.

I'd love to see what you think of the P252 in 2-Ch.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2233
Registered: Jun-07
"My wife and I are amazed at how well the Sony upconverts our old DVD's...the Oppo has become obsolete in our HT system. May let it compete with my Rotel CD player for a place in my office system."

The same thing happened to me Art when I got mine. I had a NAD Dvd player which I thought was the greatest thing until I watched a regular dvd in the blu ray player and the picture quality killed the NAD. NAD was sold.lol. Cheers man. Enjoy the format.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2234
Registered: Jun-07
Oh, one more thing Art. AMAZON.com I find is the best place to buy blu ray movies. They only ship blu ray and dvd to Canada. They pretty much have a buy two get a third free deal all the time now. Just throwing that out there.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2235
Registered: Jun-07
Another thing. The 350 has been highly praised in almost every review as being one of the fastest players with one of the best picture qualities. The only downfall is that it doesnt have the Analog outs like you said. But also like you said, by the time you care you will have a new Yammy anyway.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8573
Registered: Feb-05
Thanks for the comments guys. Watched Master and Commander tonight...the guns were a blazin', much fun was had! Cheers!

Oh and pics will be coming soon.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1929
Registered: Feb-07
Just wait till you hear uncompressed audio when you get your new Yammie. You're gonna be blown away.

We were watching "Courage Under Fire" a couple of nights ago (an older movie) on Blu-ray. The surround effects from helicopters and incoming rounds was mind blowing.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11373
Registered: Dec-04
I love this sport.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2238
Registered: Jun-07
lol Uncompressed audio is insane!!!

I must add that it is amazing just how fast the Blu Ray format is taking over. It was just this summer where I remember we had a small debate on this forum about blu ray not becoming more than a fad just for enthusiasts. Wow, were we wrong.lol. At this rate you wont see DVD format in two years. My 84 year old Neighbour who can hardly walk just bought a blu ray player and was telling me how amazing Planet Earth looked.lol. This format is spreading like a wild fire. It is a great sport indeed Nuck.
 

Silver Member
Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada

Post Number: 508
Registered: Jun-08
Yes Nick, I heard from my brother's friend that Planet Earth on Blu-ray is phenomenal. One to watch out for.

Truly Art, the uncompressed audio is as much a leap in sound as 1080p is in video. Plus, there are number of music Blu-Rays that you'll want to tap into. Sony essentially is pushing Blu-Ray as the replacement for SACD.
I haven't tried the music yet but just watched The Dark Knight on my kit the other day and it was jaw dropping. I've never heard my sub sound so tight, just goes to show you how sloppy this bass was on Dolby Digitial 5.1 etc.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8574
Registered: Feb-05
We'll it doesn't appear that we are going to be able to sell the 40 inch for what we need to be comfortable with it...so that means later this year I'll have to get another Blu-ray player...how tragic...lol! This time I'll get the 5.1 analog outs. Here's the rub, then I have to go out and get 3 good sets of interconnects...wait a second wouldn't it be cheaper just to get the new receiver..hmm...but then I'd still need the Blu-ray player...decisions, decisions.

OK guys who has gone the analog out way and what ic's are ya using...let's hear from the cheap seats...lol!
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1932
Registered: Feb-07
Right now I'm just using the cheap RCAs that come included when you buy a receiver. One of these days I'll actually get around to using real ones.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2240
Registered: Jun-07
Art- I am with David, I am just using cheap, typical, red/white 6 foot RCA cables for the Analog Out. Still with amazing results. I am sure using better cables would make a difference perhaps, but the uncompressed audio is so superb that I am good with what I have for now. I think I got my 3 RCA cables for 11 dollars. Hows that for cheap seats?lol
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8575
Registered: Feb-05
Outstanding guys...thanks for the response.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2267
Registered: Oct-04
http://www.cablewholesale.com/catalog/premiumrcacables.htm
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8576
Registered: Feb-05
Now ya'll have my wife and I considering our next move...damnit!
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2243
Registered: Jun-07
LOL Isn't this hobby amazing Art. With the blu ray players becoming cheaper and cheaper by the month it seems, I too am thinking I may need a second one soon. I can't wait for a lot of the music to start hitting blu ray. Should be interesting.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2245
Registered: Jun-07
Oh did I mention Chris is a FreakN god for giving us that cable site. You see the prices they have on Optical and HDMI cables? INSANE!!!lol
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8579
Registered: Feb-05
Relative to cables all I have to say is NXG...

Excellent budget cables...$5 or $6 a pair...and I happen to have 3 sets...imagine that!

Next up for me is either Blue Jeans for audio or Bettercables for video. I have their component video cable for my cable box and the improvement it made over the previous cables is amazing.

I'm looking forward to the concert DVD's to hit the market in Blu-ray.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2268
Registered: Oct-04
http://www.audioshowcase.com/catalog/premiumrcacables.htm

This is the link I actually meant to post, I think it's a sister site to cablewholesale.com, but for some reason it has slightly better prices.

The quality of their premium cables are excellent.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8581
Registered: Feb-05
The promised pics!

Upload
Upload
Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2269
Registered: Oct-04
Very nice.

Art, did your P252's come with the hard rubber feet in addition to the plastic silver ones in the pics?
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2246
Registered: Jun-07
Very nice indeed. NXG I will have to look into Art. Those Infinity speakers are bigger than I was thinking. Very nice.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2270
Registered: Oct-04
I think Parts Express had a closeout sale on NXG a while back.

Art, not to be a nag, but if you can get around to it someday, I'd also love to see how those P152 match up to the ELS-3.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8582
Registered: Feb-05
Yeah they did come with hard rubber feet as well. I'm trying to figure out how to make a good set of spiked outrigger feet for them.

It'll probably be awhile before I do that kind of comparison (Epos ELS3) but when I do I'll put the Atom Monitor v6's in the mix as well. I'm playing them right now and they are sounding fab.

I'm putting the Rainmakers up for sale..ASAP. Hoping they go to a good home. Will use the proceeds to get another Blu-ray and pay the boys for my cable upgrade awhile back.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2248
Registered: Jun-07
Good call Art. I had forgot the R5's took over as the main music duty again. Epos vs Atoms vs P152's. I smell another speaker war at Art's house sometime in the future. Cool stuff.

Art, where do you have the Atom V6's again? What is powering them? Just curious.Sorry to get off track.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8587
Registered: Feb-05
My research tells me that I should be looking at the Panasonic DMP-BD55 vs the Sony BDP-S550.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2250
Registered: Jun-07
Art- I have seen the Sony BDP-S550 in action and it is superb. I am sure the Panny is nice, but I would stick to the Sony. Just my opinion.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1937
Registered: Feb-07
I can second that. So far the 550 has played every single blu-ray I've thrown at it (30+), and every single SD-DVD. The only glitch is the POS remote that came with it died after about a month or so.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8588
Registered: Feb-05
The Atoms are in the my home office with the Creek 4330R and Rotel RCD971. They're sitting on the Atacama stands and doing nicely...very different than the Epos. The Rainmakers are just too much for this room...need the dough to fund the HT projects anyway...hey the wife is happy and so am I. And guys this Sammy 650 TV is da bomb!

Many of the online sources I am viewing like the Panasonic better than the Sony and it doesn't have the disc compatability issues that the Samsung Blu-ray players have. That's why the "vs" thing.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2275
Registered: Oct-04
The upcoming Oppo BDP-83 looks promising.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-players-hd-dvd -blu-ray/oppo-bdp-83-universal-blu-ray-player

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8589
Registered: Feb-05
Definitely won't pay more for the Oppo. They get great reviews but my own in house reviews say otherwise. We'll see.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2276
Registered: Oct-04
It's nice that the Oppo will do SACD & DVD-A, but you're right, the real attraction to Oppo's product line was the price, $500-600 is pushing it, IMHO.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2252
Registered: Jun-07
500-600 dollars would get you the Pioneer Elite blu ray player. Cream of the crop IMO. I see NAD has a blu ray player as well. But its going to be like a GRAND!! lol yeah....ahhhhh No thanks. At least that is what I have read.

Interesting Art about the Panny. I have heard good things about the Panny. My dealer carries both, I will ask him to get his opinion. Just to see type thing.

No doubt the Epos and Paradigms would be completely different. Both complementing each others in different ways. Nice to have both to listen to.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8591
Registered: Feb-05
I'd be interested in what the dealer has to say about the Panny vs the Sony.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8592
Registered: Feb-05
http://www.hometheatermag.com/discplayers/pioneer_bdp-51fd_blu-ray_player/

I think the Panny and Sony may still be at the head of the pack...
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2253
Registered: Jun-07
Thats the None-Elite model Art. Yeah I wouldnt buy that one.lol. If I were to buy a new blu ray player right now I would also be looking at the Sony and Panny like you are. Price to performance on those players are at the top of the heap. But If I could afford to throw out 800-1000 dollars on a player I would be looking at the Pioneer ELITE model. Only the Elite though. But then again, I have seen it in action, and could not see any difference over any other player, or mine for that matter. Go figure eh.lol. Perhaps a lot of it is marketing hype.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2254
Registered: Jun-07
Just to add on what I said the other night

"500-600 dollars would get you the Pioneer Elite blu ray player. "

Correction, the Elite model is indeed a grand. But I could get it for around 650. ahhhh still too much. When you can get the quality and performance for 250-300 in the Sony and Panny, there is no point anymore.lol
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8593
Registered: Feb-05
My bad on the Pioneer....however I sure wouldn't pay even more for a Blu-ray player to mate to my super budget HT system.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2256
Registered: Jun-07
I hear ya Art. A mighty fine budget HT though. I think Infinity speakers have been under rated. I am sure they sound fantastic.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8595
Registered: Feb-05
So the 40 inch Samsung sold this evening for full asking price go figure.

Looking into the Blu-ray players with analog outs. Reading about the class leading Panny and the setup menu hamper it's bass performance from the analog outs due to no adjustment for the sub. Those folks with the Sony 550. How it the setup menu organized on it...will I be able to fully enjoy the uncompressed audio with my "legacy" receiver? Would it be a hassle to setup...changing menu setting with every disc when you switch back and forth between DVD and Blu-Ray? Hmm...
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2280
Registered: Oct-04
I spent some time this morning with the mind-blowing, 70", Sony KDL-70XBR3

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=1055 1&productId=11040914&storeId=10151

All yours for a mere $20K.

I also got a chance to see the ridiculously priced, $2,500, 11" OLED (Organic Light Emitting Diode) TV.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=105 51&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=8198552921644539854

If this technology can be scaled-up, and the price driven down, it will absolutely blow everything & anything current manufactured clear out of the water.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2258
Registered: Jun-07
Art- Just one time setup with the 550. It is exactly the same as mine. You just go into the Sony's system menu, set the analog outs to 5.1 and then set your front speakers to small. Save it, and your good to go. I do not believe they have any sort of sub adjustment. Still slams hard as hell mind you. And yes, the 550 comes fully ready to do the decoding itself. Cheers.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1943
Registered: Feb-07
Nick is right. It's a one time only set-up. In the 550 menu I set the priority for analog out, and when watching blu-rays I set my receiver input to 6.1 direct. If watching an SD-DVD movie, I set my receiver input to DVD. The Sony seems smart enough to figure it all out.

The only thing that I've found with the Sony's onboard HD format decoders (and I've heard other people say this in forums) is that the LFE trim is quite low.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8597
Registered: Feb-05
A)Why set the fronts to small. To activate the LFE to sub. I always like my fronts set to large...hmm.

B)LFE trim is low, does this translate to bass shy...I have read that so are you confirming that David?
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2259
Registered: Jun-07
I too will confirm that when switching back from Analog In to DVD(Digital Coax) on my NAD AVR the bass is less when on the Analog out. I have had three DVD players now with Analog outs and all of them had bass trim when being used with the analog outs. I find my system sounds better when the fronts are set to small, more sub bass. But that is just my system however.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 1944
Registered: Feb-07
"B)LFE trim is low, does this translate to bass shy...I have read that so are you confirming that David?"

That's correct Art. However, I don't really mind this since most of our movie watching is done after the kids go to bed, and I don't really want to rattle my 18 month old around in her crib ;-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2260
Registered: Jun-07
lol That and the bass is still plenty. Its not like its bad, just a bit less than that of allowing the AVR decode anything. Especially my two NAD's, they hit hard. Plus the clarity is so much better you don't even think about it.lol.
 

Silver Member
Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 520
Registered: Jun-08
Yes Art, from the way I understand it, setting your speakers to small will result in a redirection of the low frequencies from your speakers to the sub. resulting in more overall bass since your sub. is probably more capabable then your speakers in bass production.
On my Onkyo AVR, I have the option of selecting Double Bass, which means that I can leave my speakers set to large (they receive all the low frequencies) but the AVR duplicates / adds these to what's sent to the sub. resulting in double bass.
To Dave's point: I just turn my sub off when the baby's asleep, as there is more than sufficient bass that is generated by my front towers for late night listening.
All the Onkyo 8-series and up have this Double Bass feature.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8598
Registered: Feb-05
My little ole' Yamaha has the bass option as well however it can't change what it doesn't receive and we're talking about the analog out/in option rather the HDMI so it may be different.

Have you fella's listened to the Blu-ray player without the uncompressed audio...what did you think?

I have no one to consider relative to bass so I want it all. I'm asking all of this because if I don't get the full advantage of the uncompressed audio with the analog outs then I may just wait until I upgrade the receiver to worry about it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2261
Registered: Jun-07
I use the Blu Ray player all the time just on normal DTS or DD with a coax cable. I have my blu ray player hooked up to the NAD via a Digital Coax as well as the Analog out's, so I can watch any blu ray in any format they provide to me. The Blu Ray players, giving that the movie does not have one of the uncompressed audio formats, still sounds fantastic. Even if the DTS HD or whatever other uncompressed format is being used, the system still sounds fantastic when watching them with the Coax connection. The AVR just decodes it as regular DTS or DD. You do miss out a bit compared to the Analog outs of course. When using a full 5.1 setup I would always recommend to anybody to set the speakers to small in the AVR as well as small in the Blu Ray player. Allows all the low frequencies to go to the sub, and gets rid of a lot of muddyness. Cheers.
 

Silver Member
Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 521
Registered: Jun-08
Nick,Dave, Art:

I believe you can also leave it set to Large but set the cut-off frequency appropriately. The THX standard is 80Hz. That way everything under 80Hz gets sent to the sub. I need to compare this setting to my current setting.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8599
Registered: Feb-05
I set the center and rears to small and the mains to large. Then I send the LFE to the sub only (have the option of sending it to both fronts and sub). I like the fuller sound.

We are going to pick up the Panasonic that's comparable to my Sony 350 this weekend at Costco and a do a comparison. We'll just wait until we need to replace the Receiver to go for the uncompressed audio.

I'll post the comparison between the 2 Blu-ray players. I'm hoping that the Panny has the flawless operation of the Sony with better upcoverted DVD performance of the Samsung I had. I really preferred it's upconverted picture better than the Sony, it simply had too many other issues..specifically disc compatibility.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2262
Registered: Jun-07
Awesome Art. Keep us posted on the comparison.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8615
Registered: Feb-05
Update on the Blu-ray player battle. We picked up the Panny yesterday and spent until 1:30 a.m. doing comparisons using the 2 DVD's and 2 Blu-rays.

Blu-rays first then DVD's:

The Dark Knight
Cars

Diana Krall In Paris
Marie Antoinette

For sound it was a mixed bag..

Dialog better on the Panny and that was especially true in Marie Antoinette...however the background and soundtrack music had more detail and PRaT through the Sony on that movie and perhaps just a hair more on Diana Krall...negligible with that one really. I really think that the difference is that the Panny has a more separated and discrete sound. Way more bass slam with the Panny for movies as evidenced with The Dark Knight and Cars...

The Picture quality was far better with the Panny for both DVD and Blu-ray. Marie Antoinette and Cars were very good for showing the differences. I was using my Samsung TV with what CNET posted as the ideal movie settings however I also experimented a bit.

Marie Antoinette has a number of scenes with beautiful clothes and colorful food and the subtlety of colors and shading were far superior on the Panny. With Cars the Sony is convincing but you really don't forget that it's really great animation...with the Panny it didn't look like animation, it looked real...too damn real...lol! Daylight scenes looked like daylight rather that lighter night and night scenes were full of detail.

The Panny only has optical digital out which is what I'm using anyway so it works, however it's a limitation that anyone considering it should know. Also the Panny gets very warm in one spot under the player. The Sony only gets warm in that ame place with Blu-ray and not DVD and it doesn't get as warm...

The Panny has quieter and more smooth operation than the Sony..they load in about equal time with the Panny being just a hair faster and quieter.

I give the Sony menu the edge. Anyone who has used it knows just how great a menu it is...very user friendly.

Both remotes suck and it's hard to say which one sucks more...

Well that's it for today!
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2280
Registered: Jun-07
So based on those two models, it sounds like the Panny is the clear winner for the money Art. Great review man, thanks for the write up. Cheers.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11413
Registered: Dec-04
Good stuff Art!
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8625
Registered: Feb-05
OK...who has the Beta 20's? Is it you Christopher? Tell me about 'em. Have you compared them to the Atoms...what is your general impressions of them. How well balanced are they?
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2288
Registered: Oct-04
Well since you asked...

I've heard the new Atoms, and if I'm going to be entirely honest, I didn't think they stood-out, however, my time with them was limited to a rather bad listening room. Perhaps my ear had grown a little too accustomed to the bottom-end of the larger bookshelfs I've owned & listened to, but then I did have quite an appreciation of the tiny Monitor Audio R90, so perhaps that wasn't it.

At the time I purchased the Beta 20 I owned the exceptional Mission M32i. The M32i were spectacular; deep snappy low-end, great spark & life, and world-class imagining. However, I was intrigued by the Betas, I had owed & passed on to my brother, the Alpha 20, a fine speaker, but the Missions bested them in just about everything, when the opportunity presented itself to pick up a pair of Beta 20 for a song, I jump at the deal.

I put the M32i & Beta 20 head to head, the winner would stay, the loser would move on. I think I was using NAD at the time, but it might have been Cambridge Audio, I don't remember, but I did my best to listen as unbiasedly as possible.

In the end, I kept the 20s, their deep, authoritative, enveloping low-end and overall neutrality & lack of coloration was ultimately the deciding factors. The 20s high-end dispersal, wide sound-field, integration, imagining, in addition to the aforementioned best-in-class low-end extension, put this speaker in a class by itself IMHO.

I should also add that the never-ending audition has continued, and I remain unconvinced that any bookshelf speaker I've listened to in the sub-$1K category is categorically better, but that's just this man's opinion.

The fact that they are being liquidated for about $40 a pop on eBay, is just too good of a deal to pass on.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2289
Registered: Oct-04
http://media.tigerdirect.com/swf/ENG_CMMD_feature.swf
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8627
Registered: Feb-05
Thanks Christopher...

I keep hearing about these great deals on Ebay but all I see is auctions which I don't participate in. Where oh where is the great deals on ebay.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2286
Registered: Jun-07
Christopher, my dealer has a pair Infinity Beta 20's in his Bookshelf demo area right beside Paradigm Studio 20's, some PSB speaker and Monitor Audio RS1's. I am going to have to give them a run through on the speaker switcher to see which I prefer. I just hope he has them situated like that still when I am in there next. He had it like that last time I was there a few weeks ago but I never bothered listening. Cheers.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2290
Registered: Oct-04
Art,

I'm sorry, but I am referring to the Harman Store's eBay auctions. It's all on the up & up, and pretty cut & dry. A $50 bid thrown in at the last minute will usually win one of these. I've seen them go for as little as $22 a piece.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8632
Registered: Feb-05
Yeah I tried today and was outbid..by the time we get to the point where I can win I'm only a few bucks from where I need to be to buy 'em new. There are a few available out there new it seems. I'm probably gonna buy a pair this week or next and give 'em a listen. They will compete with the Atoms for backup in the office. With all that some of you have said I fully expect them to win.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2287
Registered: Jun-07
lol they might even compete against your R5's Art. lol ah no. Art, if you pick a pair up I will pick a pair up.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8634
Registered: Feb-05
Better get busy Nick...I just won 2 in a row on Ebay for $45 each. Time for bed...too damn much excitement for one night!
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2288
Registered: Jun-07
lol I see that Harmon store on Ebay only ships to the U.S. I will have to call up my dealer and get them for a sick price.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2291
Registered: Oct-04
Congratulations Art, I think you're in for a real treat.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8635
Registered: Feb-05
Thanks Christopher...I'm looking forward to listening to them in my listening space.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2293
Registered: Oct-04
I'm really eager to see what you think Art. Keep us up to date.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8644
Registered: Feb-05
I ordered them this morning, will probably have them by weekend after next..this should be fun.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8674
Registered: Feb-05
Aight Nick did ya get your Beta's ordered yet...no I haven't forgotten!
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8676
Registered: Feb-05
The Primus HT stuff is breaking in nicely...my wife is certainly happy with it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2302
Registered: Jun-07
My dealer is back to work Monday as he was at CES and then went skiing last week. I will get them ordered for sure. Good stuff on the Primus.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8716
Registered: Feb-05
From Harman.

Message from Art

"How do the drivers and crossover compare between the Infinity Beta 20 and the Revel Concerta M12? Also I sent a question some time ago that I did not get a response to which was; is there a difference between the parts used in the Primus 150 and the Primus 152 other than the obvious cosmetic ones? Thank you in advance for your reply."

Hi Arthur

Thank you for contacting Infinity. The Primus 150's and the P152's are functionally the same speakers, only distinguished by its aesthetics. The drivers on the Beta 20's are similar in material to the Revels, but the crossover is very different.

I hope that this helps.

Best regards

John Kirkland

Internet Support Specialist

Harman Consumer Group
 

New member
Username: Woodsart

Post Number: 1
Registered: May-09
Art, I am looking the 252 for the fronts verses 362 (because of price). I don't see any reviews on the 252's. Do you know why? I just noticed this thread and i know it is a little old, but i am trying to make a decision. I have now 162's, 152's, 350 and Ps28 sub. Why didn't you choose the 362??? And are you still satified with the 252 floor speakers?

Rob
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 9587
Registered: Feb-05
I am still satisfied with the 252's which chose for price as well. With my Hsu sub doing the heavy lifting the front 3 (252's and 350 center) make for a very coherent HT presentation.

BTW I have no idea why there aren't reviews...makes no sense to me.
 

New member
Username: Woodsart

Post Number: 2
Registered: May-09
Thanks Art, I appreciate your reply.

I did make a call today and found some pertinent info. #1 All the reviews i did find were positive with the exception of the bass, (which some said was just fine for them). #2 Someone said that if you have listen to a P162, (which i have), the 252 is similar. #3 I talked to infinity today and the tech said the sound was similar to the 162, however, with more bass because of the dual bass, the design of the speaker casing was similar, but that the 252 enclosure was of course larger, thus more sound/bass. So....this helped me make a decision. I think I am, at this time, going to keep the 162 for the fronts with the 350 as center. The tech said that the whole primus line would work well together. And, of course, I know that now with my system. I have an Onkyo 806 receiver with all 1.3 hdmi and i think i will be ok with this for now. The months of research has certainly paid off. And, it is so fantastic of everyone voicing their opinions and suggestions on the subject of speakers and equipment and the best place to buy. It helps all of us make intelligent decisions about our purchases. Lord knows that we only want to do this once.

Thanks again and Good luck with your system!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Slappyjones

Post Number: 16
Registered: Aug-08
I just sold a pair of p362's.They were pretty good for what I paid for them $99 each at Frys's plus shipping.I couldn't get past how poor they looked though.Infinity really put their money into the speaker and not the cabinets on these ones.I am not one to normally even care about this sort of thing but they were cheap cheap.

They were 3 way which I really liked.I still have the P350 for another week or so until i can sell it.They sounded fine for home theater no real complaints other than as mentioned the aesthetics.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2603
Registered: Oct-04
I can't complain about the build quality of the Primus line, but I could have done without the two-tone styling. If they were all black, it would have really classed them up IMHO.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Slappyjones

Post Number: 17
Registered: Aug-08
Well for what they go for and Fry's has them on sale often for $99 they are fantastic.But I just redid my living room with new hardwood and they kinda stood out like a sore thumb.But the sound quality is good and that's the main point.Where else can you get a 3 way designed speaker that sounds decent for $99.Nowhere.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2604
Registered: Oct-04
I paid about $70 a piece for mine :-)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Gilmeister62

California

Post Number: 13
Registered: Mar-08
I have both the P-162s and P-152s, and they sound similar...clean mids, ambient information pretty airy...lacking in mid to low bass (they are small) and therefore good focus but not solid, as the missing low end would stabilize the image. Currently using them for my bedroom system with an HK surround receiver. Recently bought the Beta 20s from HK on e-bay for a song and a dance, will be listening to them soon.

Are they better than my SDAT Cat Leb 404s? As inexpensive and lightweight as they are, they should be inferior, but I've had the SDATs in my main system the past 2 years, and I still continue to be surprised by their clarity and tonal balance. A solid bass foundation solidifies their focus and soundstage, their speed brings out hidden transients and soundstage ambience otherwise hidden. And this judgment comes from having previously had Thiels and Sequerra's (the Metronome Mk II is astonishing for its ambience and soundstaging, almost breathtaking).
 

New member
Username: Woodsart

Post Number: 3
Registered: May-09
? for John K, Art or anyone.

First....I decided on all of the Primus Line and am very pleased, 152's surrounds 4, P28 Sub, 350 center and the ultra famous and hot 362's for fronts. couldn't be happier and i'll say that again CBH!!! However, I originally purchased 162s for fronts with 350, but this baby totally over powered the 162's. So, on to the 362s.

I decided since there was change in speaker size (from the 162's), i decided to run audyssey again, so I did and much to my surprise there was an error mess on one of the speakers, so I switched and did the same thing. Then I listened to each individual speaker and I noticed that on that individual inclosure the tweeter wasn't working. By that I mean there was no high pitch in the damaged speaker. I have contacted Harmon, since I have only had the speaker for 4 days and am waiting a reply. I also noticed on the website that one can check the inclosure as to what the prob may be. There are diagrams to follow in checking the components. I am fairly mechanical and the instuctions seems to be simple.

Does this seem to be a better solution than to send them back and pay extra shipping and take a chance on it getting damaged again? I understand they will replace up to two parts at no charge.

With the exception of the size of the 362s, the sound is wonderful and paired up with the 350, you just cant beat the price. I am still very pleased. And, of course there are so many settings and options on the onkyo 806, that i am still discovering new dimensions for listenig. Thanks for your help.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 10111
Registered: Feb-05
Just returned home, no internet or phone when I'm on vacation...mostly.

Don't know what to say. If you feel like fixing it and it doesn't void the warranty then you might just as well. If it voids the warranty then send it in for repair.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 12867
Registered: Dec-04
Happy Birthday past,Art.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 2285
Registered: Nov-05
I have the Pioneer 51fd and apart from it being slow to load sometimes, the picture quality is absolutley superb. With the recent firmware upgrade it now has onboard decoding of all hi-rez options, but I use the reciever for that with just one HDMI connection. I've had 2 Panny Blu-rays and the Pioneer eats them for Picture quality. Plays all movies I've thrown at it, the only drawback, as I stated, is that it is sometimes slow to load - occasionally ridiculously slow!
 

New member
Username: Woodsart

Post Number: 4
Registered: May-09
Thanks Art, I tried switching the tweeters and it was bad, so I will email for a new one. Also, I was thinking of driving the 7.1 primuses above with a H/K AVR 245 7.1. think there is enough power. I am using the Onkyo 806 now. What's your thoughts or anyone who has knowledge of the 245 output. It says 50w per channel.

Thanks again,
Rob
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 10116
Registered: Feb-05
Thanks Nuck and David...just got the PM.

It should be enough power Robert...probably a defective driver.
 

New member
Username: Woodsart

Post Number: 5
Registered: May-09
Thanks Art, I tried switching the tweeters and it was bad, so I will email for a new one. Also, I was thinking of driving the 7.1 primuses above with a H/K AVR 245 7.1. think there is enough power. I am using the Onkyo 806 now. What's your thoughts or anyone who has knowledge of the 245 output. It says 50w per channel.

Thanks again,
Rob
 

New member
Username: Woodsart

Post Number: 6
Registered: May-09
Sorry, Art I keep double posting. Anyways, thanks for the info, I am looking into the 245. Also, just heard from Harmon and the tweeter has been shipped with much apologies. I am so impressed with Harmon Audio. They are top notch!!
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2753
Registered: Oct-04
I had a similar incident with my Alpha 20s, one tweeter was D.O.A.; they shipped me one out A.S.A.P.,and I opted to have an authorized repair center do the work.

They also shipped me out a silver/grey shield for my PS210 (it shipped with a black one) no questions asked, and when one of the feet on my P362 was damaged, they sent me out four to replace it.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Gilmeister62

California

Post Number: 15
Registered: Mar-08
HK is top notch in terms of service. I've purchased 4 sets of speakers and a dvd player via their website. The dvd player was damaged during shipping, HK gladly and swiftly replaced it without a hitch. Audio stores with retail space (e.g. Circuit City RIP, Best Buy, etc.) should take a lesson from HK, in the meantime reap the benefits from not having a middleman to deal with.
 

New member
Username: Woodsart

Post Number: 7
Registered: May-09
I couldn't agree with you guys more. The techs that I have been emailing at H/K have been prompt, professional and informative. What more could we ask for this day in customer service.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2756
Registered: Oct-04
English without a trace of Hindi.
 

Gold Member
Username: Exerciseguy

Brooklyn, NY United States

Post Number: 2757
Registered: Oct-04
On a related note, last time I spoke to someone at Harmon about a month ago, I learned that they were closing down their Customer Service Center in Woodbury, NY.

At that time, the worker was unsure as to her fate.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 10132
Registered: Feb-05
That may not be a good sign.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 12883
Registered: Dec-04
They are hiring Apu from the quickie mart.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 10133
Registered: Feb-05
Now why would they do that? Minimum wage is minimum wage no matter who you pay. Unless you are saying that they are hiring Apu before he/she gets to Quickie Mart.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Gilmeister62

California

Post Number: 16
Registered: Mar-08
Ahhhh, laughter makes the world go 'round. When I sent my dvd player back to HK in early '08, I believe it was to Atlanta Ga. Could they have an alternate enclave apart from NY? Let's hope so. can you imagine having HK and Infinity withdrawals? We'll need an e-coustics Counselor for that!
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