Cart?

 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11122
Registered: Dec-04
Currently have VPI HW19 table, RB300 arm and Jolida JD9 tube preamp, mc/mm.

What cart should I look into?

Music is new and old rock, Elvis and ac/dc.

Willburys and Eagles.

No opera, jazz or orchestral.

Denon 103R?
Zu wood body 103 mod?
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8164
Registered: Feb-05
Benz Ace or Glider.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13115
Registered: May-04
.

The stock Rega counterweight won't balance the Zu. If you buy a heavyweight counterweight, and your pre amp can support the very low output of the 103 style cartridge, the Zu is a bargain and one of the most musical cartridges available. Those are both pretty big "if's" when it comes to a cartridge.

.
 

Gold Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 3368
Registered: Sep-04
I've never heard the Zu. So annoying when someone talks about something you've never heard...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11124
Registered: Dec-04
My dealer came back with an Ortofon 2m..black, at a higher price than I might be comfortable with.
He also has the good ol' 10x5 for a fair price (349 CDN)

The Jolida specs as follows, sorry for not posting the link.
http://www.jolida.com/catalogue/models/jd9a.shtml
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 399
Registered: Jul-07
I've been researching cartridges and phono pre's and that Jolida is one of the more well written phono preamps under $1000. And it's well under $1000, even brand new ($450 cdn). I'm thinking of taking the plunge at the same time I snag a cartridge. Love to hear your thoughts on the unit Nuck. Is it as good as it reads ? What tubes are you running in it ? Do you have the stock or "tweaked" version ?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11128
Registered: Dec-04
I get it tomorrow, and hope for a cart as well to play again this weekend.
The gear is getting large and the chick that I let from is only funny to a point.

I am out of room. note to self 'post a pic'
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13116
Registered: May-04
.

I don't know what this means;
Phono Stage: MM: 70 dB, 5 mV
MC High: 85 dB, 0.5 mV -- 1.5 mV
MC Low: 95 dB, 0.25 mV -- 0.5 mV

Is that signal to noise ratio? This phono pre amp certainy doesn't have 95dB of gain?! If that is a S/N ratio, I don't see anything that would provide any real, information on just how low the output from the cartridge can be and still deliver good results.

The specs provide this; Rated sensitivity at .25 mV -- 95 dB.

I don't know if they are implying the phono pre amp can accept a cartridge with a 0.25mV output or the phono pre amp has that S/N at 0.25mV input. A tube based phono pre amp that can accept a 0.25mV output cartridge would be unusual to say the least.

Frank - The Zu is a reworked Denon DL-103, a very musical cartridge.

http://www.stereophile.com/phonocartridges/1207zu/

.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jazzman71

Phoenix, AZ USA

Post Number: 375
Registered: Dec-07
The specs provide this; Rated sensitivity at .25 mV -- 95 dB.

Is that the output noise? Think it's a minus sign, not a dash.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11130
Registered: Dec-04
Must be -95 db, and there is no way that has so much gain. Hmmm...

The guy was using a Benz mc20 cart before.

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/106071-jolida_jd_9a_tube_phonostage__mint
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13117
Registered: May-04
.

The Zu and the Denon and the Benz are all good cartridges. If that's what you're down to, which one works the best into your system? Probably the Benz with its much higher output. Otherwise, choose any of the three and you'll be happy if what you want is a relatively nuetral sound.

.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11131
Registered: Dec-04
So of course I ended up getting the Dynvector 10x5.
I have the goodies here now, but have to go pick up the table.

Then get it all sorted out...the homeowner here is wanting to rearrange all the furniture and the kit today, so I will have to see how it all shakes out...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11132
Registered: Dec-04
So...
I followed the best proceure tht I have for setting up the arm and cart.
The preamp is set as close as I can figgur.
The table is mounted on the carpeted floor and roughly balanced.
The needle didnt skate across the record, and I have 2.4g weight verified.

It sounds absolutely wonderful!!!

I have a massive amount of gain going on, so I will cut back on the preamp, but lemmetell ya what, this is a very good setup!

There is so much weight and balance from this rough-in, and the kit is just very much alive with the music, even the speakers seen to fit in.

No issues with stage, depth or imaging at all, and it is only better from here!

I am very very happy with the setup so far.

I tested on an old lp, and found no tracking issues, so I put on Roy Orbison, Mofi Master lp(bought yesterday) 200 gm disc.

You can see me smiling from there!!

You ain't getting it back, JV, I now can call it mine!

Very cool.
 

Gold Member
Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx USA

Post Number: 1559
Registered: May-06
What are you doing up this early?

Well it's 'bout time with that table. Nice to see it is what you hoped it to be. Now get yourself one of those dot levels then verify the balance of the table and fine tune the cart, since you did state "roughly above".

How does it compare to the Apollo or other sources?

Congrats on getting it together and happy listening!
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8187
Registered: Feb-05
Ah the 10x5...damn fine little pickup. Congrats on gettin' it going Nuck!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11133
Registered: Dec-04
It is a bear of a setup for gain, so I have to try another preamp setting. There is a capacitance setup as well back there, the manual is as expected, nothing useful and try the Peking Duck.

It is working great guys, but I won't bother it too much till January, when I will build a shelf for it.

Just the most lively cartridge this Dyn. The best idea yet for my likes!

Mike, here is Boston lp that you gave me, the 1/2 master plate.

It is awesome! All the timong is right there, just like I heard at your place. Thanks, bud.
 

Gold Member
Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx USA

Post Number: 1561
Registered: May-06
You're welcome,

rock on buddy!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11139
Registered: Dec-04
I have to return to Mike...how does it compare?
Hmmm...
I have only roughed in the whole setup, but I think I am close.
I lack nothing from the table, arm, nor cart.
When I build in the shelf for the Table, all will be well, I am running at minimal acceptble right now, but this is as solid aseup as I can deal with.
I will have to tone it down, likely step back on the preamp imp. but it is quite a hoot!
So to compare?

I would put my excitement value above the virtues of the Apollo right now, but not for more than 30 seconds of David Bowie's lets Dance...that plays at the top of the sand heap.

I won't have long enough to get the phono 100%,so I will keep it all level and clean.
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia Canada

Post Number: 401
Registered: Jul-07
Right on Nuck. Sounds like a peach of a setup.
 

Gold Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 3375
Registered: Sep-04
Nuck,

2.4g sounds way too high for a Dynavector. We usually set our 10x5s for between 1.9g and 2.0g. It won't have the heavy bass but it should prove more articulate - and the midrange should get less congested.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8200
Registered: Feb-05
I have my 10x5 at 1.9g.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11143
Registered: Dec-04
I will back it off when I get home to listen next time, thanks guys.
The package quoted 2.2-2.6g, so I went there.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13124
Registered: May-04
.

Check before you "back it off". Tracking too lightly will cause more record damage than tracking too heavily.
 

Gold Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 3377
Registered: Sep-04
Nuck,

I don't know where you got that 2.2 - 2.6g quote:

http://www.dynavector.com/products/cart/e_10x5.html

Cheers,
Frank.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11154
Registered: Dec-04
It is on the spec sheet supplied with the unit,Frank.
I will very carefully check everythig again, including the Jolida hyper-gain.
The EH 12AX7 tubes replaced the 12AU units simply marked 'China' by the first owner for obvious reasons

More gain there as well...
 

Gold Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 3385
Registered: Sep-04
Nuck, no way. I've been dealing with Dynavectors for years and all of them are in the 1.8 - 2.2 range as evidenced by the Dynavector website link I gave you. I will check the spec sheet, but I find this quite surprising.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 3102
Registered: May-05
My dealer set mine at 10x5 2.0 gm. He told me to keep it there until fully broken in, then adjust it 0.1 gm at a time (not passing 1.8 or 2.2) until I get the best sound. A year and a half later, 2.0 still sounds the best to my ears.
 

Gold Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 3389
Registered: Sep-04
My colleagues at the shop just checked and say it's still 1.8 - 2.2 and somebody is talking bollox... :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx USA

Post Number: 1578
Registered: May-06
Hmmm, Nuck has a knock off or counterfeit cart?????????????????

Hope not.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13130
Registered: May-04
.


Maybe his spec sheet was printed in China. Check it for mellamine.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11162
Registered: Dec-04
B@stards, I will recheck when I get back.

The grooves are clean at least...
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8220
Registered: Feb-05
Isn't there a Dynavector division in China...lol!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13132
Registered: May-04
.

Naw, it's Audio Technica and they just rebadge 'em.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8221
Registered: Feb-05
Just checked my manual...1.8-2.2.

Nuck, could yours be using a different system of measurement?

















Not!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11165
Registered: Dec-04
Other than SI?

It is hard to measure in ounces.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8222
Registered: Feb-05
Maybe you got a Dynafactor...from the white van...lol!






Just kiddin'.....I hope!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11167
Registered: Dec-04
It's merciless in here today.

I will read the fine print this afternoon then...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13136
Registered: May-04
.

Take it to the Chinese restaurant and have them translate.
 

Gold Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 3394
Registered: Sep-04
LOL, sorry nuck, jeez you guys...
 

Silver Member
Username: Jazzman71

Phoenix, AZ USA

Post Number: 391
Registered: Dec-07
This may help with the fine print...

http://www.nciku.com/search/all/gram
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8240
Registered: Feb-05
LOL!!!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11172
Registered: Dec-04
Yeah, ok, so the spec sheet says 1.8-2.2g

Too much LSD in the Sixties.

I have to wait till the house is awake to make an adjustment, but I suppose I will lose a bit of 'weight' when I go into the suggested range.
At some point I will have the table on a shelf and work on the support/damping to get it just right, for now I will take what I get.

Other than cleaning the grooves really well, what am I hurting with such a heavy loading?
I have only played new premium lp's so far, yet to expose the setup to regular grade, not so clean lp's.

Thanks guys!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11175
Registered: Dec-04
Also picked up a Classe DR5 preamp with balanced phono to try out.
 

Gold Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 3403
Registered: Sep-04
In the short term the main issue with too much weight is that you're placing extra strain on the cartridge suspension which doesn't allow it to track quite as well as it should, so it also increases groove and cartridge wear.

You've only played it a few times, it's no big deal. Just fix it. You may lose a little weight but you will gain in pace, rhythm and timing.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jazzman71

Phoenix, AZ USA

Post Number: 397
Registered: Dec-07
Very cool, Nuck. Anxious to hear how it sounds, especially with the new phono stage.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11177
Registered: Dec-04
I brought the weight back to 1.9g.
Some of the weight of the music has receded and relaxed, nothing that I would have to comment upon.
The noise floor remains completely silent.
The sub does not quiver or hunt much, just only a bit when the most quiet interludes invite the wow.

now for the classe pre...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13142
Registered: May-04
.

"Too much LSD in the Sixties."

Uh, ... yep?!

As far as record wear is concerned nothing happened with a high VTF as long at the stylus was in good shape and the cartridge was properly mounted. As Frank said, the danger of too heavy a tracking force is to the cantilever and not to the disc as long as the cantilever doesn't collapse.



One of the things that happens when you increase the downforce of the arm is the spring suspension nature of the cantilever in the cartridge responds to the increased force. By increasing the downforce you are effectively lowering the tonearm as far as the cantilever and stylus are concerned, you are altering the VTA.

I thought I gave you instructions on setting up the table that included how to deal with VTA adjustments. The HW19 that I sent you has an adjustable main bearing/platter height. This makes it possible to adjust for VTA even when the arm itself has no fine adjustment. As you received the table, the bearing height was set for my RB300 with a Grado mounted. If the Dynavector is not the same height as the Grado I was using, then you'll definitely need to adjust the VTA for your cartridge.

Look under the plinth of the table and you'll see the sealing compound on the end of the main bearing shaft. Remove this compound and make your adjustments to compensate for the VTA difference of the higher VTF. After you've made the adjustment clean and reseal the bearing so no lubricant leaks out. (You did replace the lubricant in the bearing, right?) Do not outsmart yourself and seal the bearing permanently as you might want a different cartridge before you want a different table.

.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11182
Registered: Dec-04
Yes, JV, I had your instructions and your note safely stowed, but that was before the X had a little fire in the backyard. Doh!

I read and remembered. Have lube. The VTA is marginal with the Dyn and my protractor. The stylus clears the 180gm platter by only 2mm or so.
The setup is loose, to be sure, but works well, and I can live with it for now. I am getting all sorts of flack for having too much gear anyhow.
I will relocate in the new year, and build a shelf for the fine tt.

In the meantime, I will try to keep absorbing and listening ,tapping toes.

Skol!
 

Gold Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 3408
Registered: Sep-04
Fire in the backyard...oh Lord...!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 11203
Registered: Dec-04
It is an epic story, Frank.

Phono poorn...
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/108290-micro_seiki_ddx1500_spectacular_mu seum_grade_table_from_wwwtubeaudioproductscom/
 

Gold Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 3414
Registered: Sep-04
Hmmm, not sure I recognize those arms. Bottom left looks like a Dynavector arm, bottom right looks like a SME but the other two? No idea...
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