Advice on TT to get Back into to Vinyl

 

New member
Username: Dave_s5

Essex Junction, Vermont USA

Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-08
First I have been reading the forms here for several days and appreciate all the good information that is provided. I have an older Dual CS521 that hasn't been played for 10 years. I know at a minimum it needs a belt and a cartridge. I have been reading the great info provided on the newer TTs such as the Rega tables and the Project tables. I'm trying to decide if I should bother getting the Dual TT back working or look to a different TT either via Audiogon used or a new TT. I'm assuming from whats been written that I would find a fair improvment out of some of the options recommended over my Dual. I have to admit all the good info here has given me the bug :-) So I am thinking I would be looking to start with the TT and work towards putting together a system for Audio slowly. Thinking that I would spend $2K to $3K for the system, know thats nothing for high end audio. Looking for recommendations on TT and suggestions on upgrade path. I have a pair of older Pioneer HPM 1500 speakers that I still like. I am using a 10+ year old Denon AVR 1200 to drive them today. It does have a Phono preamp section but I understand its not anything amazing. I have a collection of 200 plus LPs from my younger days I would like to listen to and also convert some of to digital. I probably should mention that where I live there is one Audio shop and they will order TTs but carry nothing in stock to listen to. Thanks in advance for your help.
 

Gold Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 8035
Registered: Feb-05
Might want to start by buying a belt and a cartrtidge for your Dual..give it a chance before you move forward.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13083
Registered: May-04
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The Dual tables were always the starting out point for quality sound. From there the next level was to a baseline Rega or similar table. While there are improvements to be had with a better table, you need to establish what it is about a better table that will benefit your needs before you spend money needlessly just for the sake of buying something. I think we can all agree it's difficult to understand what's better until you understand what you have in hand.

Keep your Dual for now. You need to buy a belt and then assess the stylus condition. The stylus and cantilver suspension are the crucial bits of a cartridge and they can typically be replaced without changing out the entire cartridge. If the table truly hasn't been played for ten years, then a new stylus assembly for the existing cartridge is in order.

In other words, don't spend money just because you read about something better and more expensive than what you already own. You must have references for what you want and what is important in music before you can successfully build a musical system. Rather than spend money on gear, put the cash into music, buy new records and listen to how music sounds in your room. You do not require enormous amounts of money invested in equipment or in hundreds of LP's to have a quality system that you enjoy. I just culled out 100 LP's I wasn't listening to to trade for a few that I would. What you need is the good sense to know when you have what you want.

This hobby can become an adiction and if you begin spending money just for the sake of spending money, you will soon find yourself on a constant path toward spending more money without having any particular reason other than you're hooked on the excitement of something new. You can make this about who dies with the most toys but you'll surely loose that battle to someone else.

Go out and spend some money on live music to gain a reference for what the real deal sounds like. Learn about music and how it's performed. If you have the chance, talk to players or read about performers you admire to understand their intentions regarding how they make music from a handful of notes. Instead of subscribing to Stereophile pick up a copy of Guitar Player to read how music is constructed and performed. Learn how a player can take four notes and build a entire twenty four bar solo around just a few brilliant or even common ideas and threads. Understand how each player approaches their music to gain insight into how music is made and made differently when the same song is covered by a dozen artists. Understand what is happening in music and how to hear the nuances that set one performer apart from another. Then go buy music that gives you the thoughts put into action. Listen to the music and not the equipment.

Learn about music and assemble a system that plays the music and not just the audio buzz words and you'll have something that will last a lifetime. Start buying things just because you've read they are better than so and so and you'll be on a long road to frustration in most cases.

Keep the Dual, buy LP's and tickets.


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Gold Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 3315
Registered: Sep-04
Hmm, not sure I agree. I applaud the idea of buying new music, and there are many LPs available new and second hand. New LPs tend to be pressed rather better than in the 80s as they're seen as niche market products. They are also quite expensive.

If you did purchase a new turntable of better quality (without going crazy), this would give a new lease of life to your old records. 200 LPs is a small but worthy collection. I would look at something in the Rega P3 price bracket. Add a Goldring 2500 or a Dynavector 10x5 and you're in business to play records well, and better than you're used to. If the bug stays, you can enjoy your Rega and buy more records that you'll appreciate more - and if the big bites deeply you can look at upgrading.

The Rega should come through the Denon/Pioneers and show you a good bit of its capabilities, but if you really want it to rock, consider upgrading the rest of your system too. By spending a little less on the deck you could do this sooner rather than later. Overall, this would improve your whoile music experience and that has to be something to look forward to...
 

New member
Username: Dave_s5

Essex Junction, Vermont USA

Post Number: 2
Registered: Nov-08
Thanks for the feedback. I see I got both ends of the spectrum. Jan looks like a hit a "chord" with you :-) I agree that something new isn't always better. It is nice to have a new toy to play with once in awhile you have to admit :-) I have to be careful what I get passionate about though my wife only allows me certain toys....
If you look at my equipment in my profile for my audio gear, I research what I'm interested in and when I buy I keep it and enjoy it for along time.
So based on the input I think I will get a belt and cart for the dual and start there. Once that is up and I've spent some time with it, I will figure out a way to go listen to some of the new equipment (road trip). I might keep my eye out for a good deal on a Rega TT as well. So one other question for you any suggestions on a cart for the Dual. Also is it possible what I get for it could move to a new TT if that happened? By the way Jan guitar lessons start in Dec, we'll see if you can teach an old dog........
Thanks for the advice.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13084
Registered: May-04
.


Learn power chords (two notes) if you listen to harder rock; http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=guitar+power+chords&search_type=&aq= f

Triad chords (three notes) are the 'tween step linking power chords to Pentatonic scales; http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=guitar+triad+chords&search_type=&aq= f

Then learn the Pentatonic scale(s) (five notes) and you can play along with at least 80% of the music you listen to. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=guitar+pentatonic+scales&search_type =&aq=f

http://www.youtube.com/user/JustinSandercoe


The Dual brings about $50-100 if you sell it.

Cartridges for the Dual are basic choices. The arm prefers lower mass cartridges such as the older Ortofon OM series. Being designed in the mid 1980's means the arm was meant for the sort of cartridges that are no longer in vogue. Most cartridge designs have moved to slightly higher mass/lower compliance to accomodate arms such as the Rega. However, the standby Shure, Audio Technica and Grado's work well in the Dual arm as will the new generation of Ortofons. You will need a Dual cartridge alingment guage to accurately set up the arm. http://www.dual-reference.com/index.html

You don't have to buy "new" new vinyl though most of the new pressings are very good quality. Half the fun of buying vinyl is to find something at Half Price Books, the Salvation Army or a yard sale only to discover absolutely wonderful recordings from 40-50 years ago sounding like new on a quality player.

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