Going Vintage with Marantz??
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 688 Registered: Jan-05 | I want something different, something that's rare and obviously sounds good. From what I read, Marantz vintage amplifiers/recievers are up there! I'm extremely tempted to go for a Marantz 4270 quadrophonic reciever/amplifier thats recently been serviced. Any advice? Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7366 Registered: Feb-05 | Audiokarma is probably the best website specializing in vintage gear. I would go there and introduce yourself and pose your question. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12847 Registered: May-04 | . "I want something different, something that's rare and obviously sounds good." Why? Why Marantz? Why Quadraphonic? There's better. Consider this; http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?miscrcvr&1220756926 The best tuner ever put in a receiver, excellent phono section (designed by Thomlison Hollman) and pre outs to bi-amp with the very good built in amp. Quite rare. Also worth considering; http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?miscrcvr&1219166172 Art likes the AudioKarma guys. Me - not so much. They fall all over themself at the thought of restoring a 1970's P.O.S. Pioneer. Neither the Pioneer nor the Marantz belongs in the same room with the Advent. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12848 Registered: May-04 | . Extremely rare! http://www.audioclassics.com/detail.php3?detail=WIDE&nav=cat |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7368 Registered: Feb-05 | Some folks are more knowledgeable than others at AK just like here. What a surprise. However there is a Marantz forum there where you may find the information you are looking for. AK'ers have a appreciation of vintage gear and many of them have very low budgets which means that some of them are thrilled at restoring a dumptser find...recycle reuse...I'm thankful for them and that they are enjoying music regardless of budget. BTW there is also a McIntosh forum there...go figure. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12849 Registered: May-04 | . I wasn't slamming you or them, Art. No need for the defense. I just don't get excited by the same stuff they do and I remember what most of it sounded like when it was new. Most of it didn't sound that good then to get that excited now. . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7370 Registered: Feb-05 | That was no defense Jan just the truth. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10573 Registered: Dec-04 | No defence needed nor taken, no quarter. Page/Plant. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 689 Registered: Jan-05 | AudioKarma looks like a good site, I think I'll register to it! 4270 because Im fond of my marantz solid state and on audioreview there are some interesting reviews, all positive. The unit also looks fantastic I think. I'm wanting to get a second pair of monitor audio br2s and stack them. Using my current amplifier would push the ohm load too low so a reciever will handle my plan. Thank You for your audiogon suggestions, sadly I'm from the UK though!! Even the marantz 4270 I'm looking at has a 120v power supply and I'm not sure how it works and if its switchable to UK standards so its probably a no-goer. No information came up on the audioclassics link you posted! Art you're low budget criteria would fit me. I dont exactly have bags of cash to spend. I've looked into floorstanders but they're just inpracticle to cart to and from university. I saw a review on 6 moons where some associated equipement had some Loth standmounts stacked but used some kind of small things to angle the speakers. I'm still in search of what they're called and where to get them from!! I think a lot of my interest in vintage equipment is how impressed i was with the NAD 3130 which I'm putting on ebay soon. The only reason I'm not keeping it is because it lacks the power of my Marantz it sounds less realistic with guitars and lacks the larger muscular soundstage. What I miss is the NAD 3130 had better instrument separation and better top end detail in the transparent way. I'm not entirely what to look for as I don't know what a lot of amps out there sound like and I know I'm not greatly experienced in musical qualities different amplifiers can have. I do know that I want something that can drive 4 speakers in stereo so perhaps bi-amping and a pre-amp so I can control the volume without getting imbalance. A remote control would be bonus. Second I want a good amount of power. Thirdly I want some style!! Tubes would be my dream but I don't have that kind of money! For all I know however, I could hate the sound of tubes but that's off topic. Any further advice, should I bi-amp, any idea on the little things to angle stacked speakers? Anything I'm missing out on? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10576 Registered: Dec-04 | Yes, JJ, the music. Keep what you have and buy some off-beat music. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12851 Registered: May-04 | . Well, you've got me confused. You're buying a Marantz Quadrophonic receiver because you like the sound of NAD. But the NAD was obviously better than the Marantz, that's what made the NAD a standout value at the time. You won't find remote control with true vintage gear such as the Marantz. Any amplifier can drive four speakers. It's not the amplifier that's important in that equation. I don't understand, " ... so perhaps bi-amping and a pre-amp so I can control the volume without getting imbalance." "For all I know however, I could hate the sound of tubes but that's off topic", is something I could spend a few pages on. Tubes are not that expensive if your system is configured for tubes. And you're going to buy something you've never heard? That only a few people can repair when the time comes. OK, tell me what I'm missing here. Oh, yeah, the blue lights on the Marantz. The lamps that do that are special order, you know. And a Marantz receiver from the SuperScope era would not be my choice for a low impedance load. If I remember correctly, the 4270 was not a CD-4 compatible unit until you added the outboard processor. QS and SQ were derived four channels systems (the analog prologue to Pro Logic) which matrixed information through the rear channels which were, I believe, lower power than the front channels. . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7376 Registered: Feb-05 | I honestly think you should keep the NAD JJ. Sounds like you really like it. Switch back and forth between it and the Marantz that you already have and enjoy. Meanwhile you can join AK and begin to learn more about some of the vintage gear you are interested in... |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 690 Registered: Jan-05 | I'm not buying it anymore. It isnt even compatable in the UK. The NAD is better only in some respects but its lacking on power and the big dynamics yet smoothness of my Marantz. I'm definatley keeping the Marantz, I dont know how long the NAD will even last. I need to know more about vintage equipment before I buy it. My Marantz can drive 4 speakers but combined ohms have to be between 8-16ohms with with 2 pairs, and with one pair its between 4-16. So if I used 2 pairs of br2s rated 6ohms it'd be too low wouldnt it? I remember being told that tubes aren't worth it unless you're spending a good amount of money. I bought the nad 3130 having never heard it, but hearing it is definately important. I would have NEVER considered marantz until I heard it with my speakers. I'll be staying away from vintage for a while at least Jan  . Art, as I explained about the NAD, its a good amplifier but dont get me wrong, my Marantz is a better match IF i used my subwoofer too. Then music sounds very dynamic with plenty of attack (now that I know the proper definition of the term). I still want to purchase another set of br2s, I dont think my integrated can handle it though as I've explained so I'm not sure the best route to take.. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10578 Registered: Dec-04 | JJ, a small tube amp is not a waste at all, I have a small 18w tuber from Asia, and it adds a lot to the enjoyment. Mine plays quite low, and into Tim's Ling speakers, FRSD. If you know what to expect, you can find a lot of fun stuff. If you like the BR2's and want an A+B setup, thats fine, but a 3ohm load will likely shut down the Marantz, it has limits, mon. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7383 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm not sure why you want an A+B setup. If it's about surround sound then that's better done with a surround sound receiver, if it's about soundstaging and imaging then a better 2 channel setup altogether may be the answer...I'm confused. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 691 Registered: Jan-05 | What make is your tube amp Nuck? I want one Art, because I can't have floorstanders because they're too hefty to lug around with me. A bigger soundstage is what I'm after so you'd be right there. I've seriously thought about surround sound but it isn't feasible. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7384 Registered: Feb-05 | Buy a good high quality amp and speakers that image and soundstage well and...problem solved. My Rega/Totem combo give me exactly what it sounds like you're looking for and all can be had on the pre loved market, and reasonably. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12855 Registered: May-04 | . Sounds like you're just spittin' into the wind to see what hits you back in the face, JJ. Get down to a decent dealer and give a listen. Tubes are fine but you have to have realistic expectations. If you expect "tube sound", you're probably going to be disappointed somewhere down the road. Stacking speakers probably won't give you a larger soundstage, that's really the province of the electronics before the speakers can recreate what they're fed. In other words, if it ain't coming from the source and electronics, the speakers can't make it happen unless they are not true to the source. That's a recipe for dissatisfaction. The actual impedance load varies and looking at a "6" Ohm speaker doesn't tell you diddley. If you insist on doing this and you're going to stack the speakers, make a series connection between the two pair. Vintage is great. You can use gear for years and still get most if not more than your original investment back. But all that's old is not vintage. . |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 692 Registered: Jan-05 | For what kind of price Art? O and can someone please shoot me! Because Art, I thought I'll give the NAD one last try. I realise how shiet my Marantz is lol. How can such an old amplifier beat it? I'm loving the sound I'm getting with the nad 3130 and br2 combo. The sound is so much better biwired too. But I think I'm just being greedy with power.. Has anyone had experience with the nad 2100s? I'm thinking I could use them as monoblocks and use the 3130 as a preamp? Would this go against what you said with stacking speakers being a bad idea Jan? Would you care to explain what a series connection is please? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7385 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm not on your side of the pond JJ so that's research you'll have to do there. I recently owned a 2100 amp...not as good sounding with a similarly seasoned NAD pre amp as my wife's 325BEE. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 693 Registered: Jan-05 | So I should stay away from the 2100s? They're power amps though aren't they whereas the 325bee is an integrated with option of just being a pre. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7391 Registered: Feb-05 | I owned the 2100 with an old NAD pre amp and together they did not sound as good as my wife's 325BEE does by itself. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12862 Registered: May-04 | . "Would this go against what you said with stacking speakers being a bad idea Jan?" I didn't say it would be a bad idea. I said it probably won't give you what you are expecting since soundstaging has to be passed unperturbed through the source and electronics before the speakers can reproduce "soundstage". If you don't have it now, stacking another pair of speakers on top of your own probably won't change the soundstage. Place "parallel/series connected loudspeakers" in a search engine. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 694 Registered: Jan-05 | So in series the load rises and in parallel it decreases. Yet theres not difference in sound? I'm a bit sceptical on which to do if any. I'm getting a good soundstage but I'm just greedy for more and if bi-amping/monoblocks/series wiring will allow me to simply run two sets of speakers in stereo then I'll be more than willing to do this. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10582 Registered: Dec-04 | JJ, adding extra load to a supply will always increase the demand on an amp, no matter how you connect it. It is a load, mon. In series, the remaing current from the first load is on a return leg to the second. In parallel, the loads are presents in equal portions, but double the load to the amp. 22's cannot be caught this way. Big robust amps can do this, not receivers and such, usually. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10583 Registered: Dec-04 | In series, the speaker load is expecting an uninterrupted link to the reference, not another load. As the load adds(or multiplies) dependent upon the XO's, the amp sees fits and spurts of loads. They don't like that. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12865 Registered: May-04 | . "In series, the speaker load is expecting an uninterrupted link to the reference, not another load. As the load adds(or multiplies) dependent upon the XO's, the amp sees fits and spurts of loads. They don't like that." Explain please. "Fits and spurts of loads"? What's that mean? The speaker "load" doesn't "expect" anything. How does the second speaker load "interrupt" the link and to what "reference"? Even a pretty measly receiver should be able to drive a series load when minimal current is required and sufficient voltage is present. . |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1688 Registered: Jun-07 | J.Jarvis- What is your budget if you dont mind me asking? There is a lot to be had at a low budget NEW now a days that will smash sonically anything Marantz has ever made that could, perhaps, be considered vintage. Arts NAD 325bee Integrated amp is one of, if not THE, best sounding integrated amplifier for the money. Hence...for the money that is. Of course there is always better, but for much more money. Get to a point where you can close your eyes, and enjoy the music my friend. The 325bee can be had at a low price, and is arguably one of the best sounding NAD integrates to date. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7405 Registered: Feb-05 | That would be Art's wife's 325BEE (she would not be happy with you Nick..lol). |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1691 Registered: Jun-07 | lol Sorry Art. Tell the wife I take it back. "Arts Wife's 325bee" |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 695 Registered: Jan-05 | Well Dam. I was on holiday to which I'd put a bid in for 2 nad 2100s and I won them so I dont have a budget anymore for amps. O well I'll try them! If it doesnt work out I'll consider the c325bee. Now I'm considering some b&w dm4s, any experience or advice? Thanks |
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